WEBVTT - Under the Hood of Emerging Markets’ Energy Transition

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<v Speaker 1>This is Dana Perkins and you are listening to Switched

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<v Speaker 1>on the BNF podcast, and today we're discussing this year's

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<v Speaker 1>edition of Climate Scope, BNF's annual publicly available resource that

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<v Speaker 1>compares individual markets around the world and evaluates their readiness

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<v Speaker 1>to put transition investment to work. We started doing this

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty twelve, a dozen years ago, and have slowly

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<v Speaker 1>but surely added more markets every year to bring us

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<v Speaker 1>to one hundred and forty in total, of which one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and ten are emerging markets and developing economies. This

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<v Speaker 1>year's focus was on the EMDs, in particular, especially the

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<v Speaker 1>power sector, where we've seen a boom in capacity editions

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<v Speaker 1>for clean technologies. In order to gather all of the

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<v Speaker 1>data that we need to bring this research to life,

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<v Speaker 1>members of the BNF team were sent to many of

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<v Speaker 1>these markets to speak with local politicians, utility companies, and

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<v Speaker 1>project developers in person. In this year's Climate Scope, for

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<v Speaker 1>the first time, we see the one hundred and ten

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<v Speaker 1>emerging markets break the one hundred billion dollar barrier for

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<v Speaker 1>clean energy investment. But when you take a closer look,

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<v Speaker 1>you'll realize that eighty four percent of this is concentrated

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<v Speaker 1>in just fifteen markets. So today we'll talk about the

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<v Speaker 1>markets at the top of the list, the ones that

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<v Speaker 1>rose the most in the rankings, and the policies that

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<v Speaker 1>could be behind the markets that saw the most significant rises.

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<v Speaker 1>Available for everyone to read, you can find the full

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<v Speaker 1>Climate Scope twenty twenty four at Global dash Climatescope dot org.

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<v Speaker 1>To discuss the findings from this year's Climate Scope in

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<v Speaker 1>more detail, today, I'm joined by two of its authors,

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<v Speaker 1>Head of Country Transition Research, Sophia Maya, an analyst Anna

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<v Speaker 1>Paula Fonseca Tecia. Sophia, thank you very much for joining today.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi Dana, thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Anna, it's great having you here as well.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you, thank you for having me as well.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're here to talk about Climate Scope and are

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty four results that have come in on this

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<v Speaker 1>with the renewed focus on emerging markets and developing economies,

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<v Speaker 1>and I want to come to the top of the list,

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<v Speaker 1>let's focus on the winner. So for the second year

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<v Speaker 1>in a row, India came in first place. What is

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<v Speaker 1>happening in India that is making it such a great

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<v Speaker 1>place for clean energy development?

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<v Speaker 2>So this is a really good question because actually over

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<v Speaker 2>the past two three years, we have seen India kind

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<v Speaker 2>of fighting with Chile to get the first place in

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<v Speaker 2>the ranking, but this year India got that for the

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<v Speaker 2>second year in a row.

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<v Speaker 3>And one of the reasons is.

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<v Speaker 2>Because India has established really good policies, more specifically focused

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<v Speaker 2>on the.

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<v Speaker 3>Renewable energy auctions, and they also.

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<v Speaker 2>Have a really bold renewable energy target to meet by

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<v Speaker 2>two thousy thirty. So this target means reaching five hundred

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<v Speaker 2>gigawats of renewables installed by two thoy thirty and so far,

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<v Speaker 2>until twenty twenty three, they had already achieved the twenty

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<v Speaker 2>nine percent of this target. And in addition to that,

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<v Speaker 2>we had seen that the big power demand and the

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<v Speaker 2>GDP growth has also contributed to that, because as industries

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<v Speaker 2>and people demand more electricity, the country is consequently obliged

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<v Speaker 2>to tackle this issue. Also, another thing is that India

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<v Speaker 2>is one of the most polluting countries in the world,

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<v Speaker 2>so when we analyze its energy matrix, we see that

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<v Speaker 2>there's still a long way to go, so they can

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<v Speaker 2>switch coal power plants, for example, to more renewable energy.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is some of the main issues. The main

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<v Speaker 2>findings that put India in the first place.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm so glad you brought up policy because while this

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<v Speaker 1>is a ranking that really looks at the clean energy

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<v Speaker 1>side of things, we know that policy drives adoption and

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<v Speaker 1>can really make the difference in where you show up

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<v Speaker 1>in on this ranking and how much is actually happening

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<v Speaker 1>in your country. We see this the world over. So

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty twenty, we actually had a show that focused

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<v Speaker 1>on Vietnam where we saw changes in feet and terraffs

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<v Speaker 1>actually led to a boom in solar installations and well

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<v Speaker 1>not the same thing as the energy industry, but adjacent.

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<v Speaker 1>You see, electric vehicles in Norway took off after there

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<v Speaker 1>were tax is levied on internal combustion engines, making electric

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<v Speaker 1>vehicles more cost competitive. So I want to know what

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<v Speaker 1>are some of the policies that you are seeing that

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<v Speaker 1>is really driving countries' positions on this climate scope braking

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<v Speaker 1>and especially in emerging markets and developing economies. You know

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<v Speaker 1>why is policy so key?

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<v Speaker 3>So policies are the first step to towards attractiveness for

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<v Speaker 3>climate scope, which is why the fundamentals parameter measures higher

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<v Speaker 3>than anything else in our scarring process. We measure four

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<v Speaker 3>key policies which are reno w energy targets auctions and tenders,

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<v Speaker 3>not meturing and feeding tariffs as the main ones observed

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<v Speaker 3>in emerging markets, but we do track a hole on

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<v Speaker 3>more renown Winergy targets are by far the most adopted policy,

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<v Speaker 3>reaching over ninety five percent of emerging markets in twenty

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<v Speaker 3>twenty four, which is also a significant improvement from seventy

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<v Speaker 3>four percent in twenty twenty one. This increase is mostly

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<v Speaker 3>attributed to a lot of African markets raising up their targets.

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<v Speaker 3>And if we look at the second most popular policy,

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<v Speaker 3>which are auctions and tenders, this policy is saw the

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<v Speaker 3>smallest change in the last four years, going up from

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<v Speaker 3>fifty eight percent to sixty four but has for the

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<v Speaker 3>first time in twenty twenty four reached over sixty percent.

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<v Speaker 3>Net metrin, which is the term most popular policy, has

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<v Speaker 3>been growing consistently over the years, up to sixty percent

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<v Speaker 3>in twenty twenty three thanks to Minigrates Group, top solar

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<v Speaker 3>incentives and small scale solar uptake and feeding tarriffs. The

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<v Speaker 3>least popular policies have reached thirty four percent after seeing

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of decreases in the last two years. But

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<v Speaker 3>all these policy adoption rates and this whole growth story

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<v Speaker 3>is not spread out equally. We see that there are

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<v Speaker 3>changes depending on the region. If we look at for example,

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<v Speaker 3>Africa has raised a lot of their renown energy targets

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<v Speaker 3>and fitting tires are the least popular policy everywhere, but

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<v Speaker 3>are as equally popular in one region, which is Europe,

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<v Speaker 3>as auctions and metering is the least popular policy in

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<v Speaker 3>Africa and more popular in Europe, which also leads us

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<v Speaker 3>discussion on a lot of untapped resources. And tax incentives

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<v Speaker 3>are also key in emerging markets with both impart taxes

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<v Speaker 3>and value added taxes are yet reductions and exemptions being

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<v Speaker 3>key for lowering costs in emerging markets as most of

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<v Speaker 3>those markets are not manufacturers of key components for the

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<v Speaker 3>energy transitions. Forty two percent of markets have both value

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<v Speaker 3>added taxes and import taxes reduction exemption, but please do

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<v Speaker 3>note that those are mostly directed to either solar and

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<v Speaker 3>as we can see in the report, this is not

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<v Speaker 3>spread out and a lot of markets still have a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of progress should be made in most of these policies.

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<v Speaker 1>So, while renewable energy targets are the most popular and

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<v Speaker 1>that to some respect makes them de facto the most

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<v Speaker 1>effective because of their prevalence. Let's say we cleared the

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<v Speaker 1>slate and we started over. Of these different policies, which

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<v Speaker 1>one would be the most effective if it did take

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<v Speaker 1>the top spot. And let's remove renewable energy targets from

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<v Speaker 1>the list.

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<v Speaker 3>So if we remove renew brantage targets, we do see

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<v Speaker 3>that auctions drive the biggest increase in deployment and auctions

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<v Speaker 3>adoption rates are seen in most markets that we see

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<v Speaker 3>raising in the Climascope ranking. So this is probably the

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<v Speaker 3>policy that we would with number one, but this cannot

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<v Speaker 3>be done alone, so other incentives are also key to

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<v Speaker 3>make sure that auctions are feasible and the n S year.

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<v Speaker 2>And if IMA jump in So in addition to the auctions,

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<v Speaker 2>net metering is one of the polls that we have

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<v Speaker 2>seen like the biggest jump in the past years. And

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<v Speaker 2>as Anna mentioned before, this is mainly because most markets

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<v Speaker 2>they are now canceling their fossil fuel subsidies for example

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<v Speaker 2>for generators, and this would actually help drive the deployment

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<v Speaker 2>and the investment in of.

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<v Speaker 3>Greed and midigreeds.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is basically what we are starting to see

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<v Speaker 2>in Nigeria. For example, last year, the recently elected president

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<v Speaker 2>just cut off all fossil fuel subsidies and this is

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<v Speaker 2>actually driving a boom of PVA capacity in the country.

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<v Speaker 2>And according to bin a f forecast for solar, we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to see a higher increase in PREV capacity in

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<v Speaker 2>the country until twenty thirty.

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<v Speaker 1>So that really drove photovoltaics in Nigeria. That's a really

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<v Speaker 1>great example. Well then let's talk. Let's talk. Then we'll

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<v Speaker 1>put renewable energy targets back on the table. And what

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<v Speaker 1>I want to better understand is kind of why they

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<v Speaker 1>are the most popular. What is driving these? Is it

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<v Speaker 1>a focus on expanding access to electricity or is it

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<v Speaker 1>just a cost effective way due to the low levelized

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<v Speaker 1>cost of energy to really get different infrastructure on the grid,

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<v Speaker 1>or are they aligned with carbon emissions targets? You know,

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<v Speaker 1>what are the reasons behind this being so popular?

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<v Speaker 3>So this is not a single factor that I think

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<v Speaker 3>we can attribute it to. Why renewble energy targets are

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<v Speaker 3>the most popular, This is of course a combination of

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<v Speaker 3>political intent economic As we see the levelized costs of

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<v Speaker 3>renewble energy orl cooees are going down each year, which

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<v Speaker 3>makes renewables more attractive for everywhere. Our needed everywhere as

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<v Speaker 3>time progresses and the whole political need of climate change.

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<v Speaker 3>As the years progress and we are reaching closer and

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<v Speaker 3>closer to twenty thirty, markets are also raising the question

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<v Speaker 3>on how they're going to effectively reach a low carbon

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<v Speaker 3>economy and how they can progress towards it. So setting

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<v Speaker 3>those targets is the first step towards saying this is

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<v Speaker 3>how we want to do it, and then the combination

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<v Speaker 3>of policy support attracting investment that makes this transitional feasible.

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<v Speaker 1>So when we look at the financing of projects, projects

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<v Speaker 1>in emerging markets and developing economies can sometimes fall into

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<v Speaker 1>this category of unbankable and can carry with them higher

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<v Speaker 1>levels of risk. So what are some of the challenges

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<v Speaker 1>that are standing in the way of securing financing? Because

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<v Speaker 1>understanding the challenges the first step and trying to figure

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<v Speaker 1>out how to fix them and scale clean energy infrastructure.

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<v Speaker 2>So one of the main barriers that we were able

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<v Speaker 2>to see this year is related to grid constraint, regulatory hurdles,

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<v Speaker 2>and financial concerns. In the case of the financial issues,

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<v Speaker 2>this is mainly due to the currency volativity and politic

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<v Speaker 2>come stability as such for example corruption. So these key

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<v Speaker 2>issues they really affect the confidence of investors in putting

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<v Speaker 2>their money in those emerging markets. In addition to that,

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<v Speaker 2>like the on the grid constraints issue. So we have

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<v Speaker 2>seen an uptake of renewables added in most emerging markets

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<v Speaker 2>in general. However, one thing that hasn't keep up with

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<v Speaker 2>these capacity added for renewables is their investment in greeds

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<v Speaker 2>in the green infrastructure. So without this investment, the counter

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<v Speaker 2>would be facing other challenges as well because it would

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<v Speaker 2>be able to generate clean electricity, but this would cause

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<v Speaker 2>other problems due to the grid constraints and curtailment and

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<v Speaker 2>these kind of things which we are already seeing in

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<v Speaker 2>some emerging markets like Chile Uru Guy because they have

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<v Speaker 2>already added they had their bone on renewable energy installed capacity,

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<v Speaker 2>but now the greed is not being able to keep

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<v Speaker 2>up with these folocks of our for example in the grid.

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<v Speaker 1>So overall our investments in emerging markets and developing economies,

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<v Speaker 1>are they going up or are they going down? If

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<v Speaker 1>we look at twenty twenty four versus say twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 1>three or twenty twenty.

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<v Speaker 3>Two, investment in emerging markets is definitely growing, and in

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<v Speaker 3>twenty twenty three we actually saw a very interesting number

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<v Speaker 3>because emerging markets reached over one hundred billion of investment

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<v Speaker 3>for new built renew blinerge investment, which includes both us

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<v Speaker 3>AT finance and small scale solar investment, and so twenty

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<v Speaker 3>twenty three marked one hundred and sixty billion USC four

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<v Speaker 3>emerging markets, which represented seventeen point five percent of the

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<v Speaker 3>global renau burinergy investment figure in twenty twenty three, and

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<v Speaker 3>this is up from thirteen percent in twenty fourteen, so

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<v Speaker 3>we see a significant growth from a thirteen percent share

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<v Speaker 3>to seventeen point five percent. Most of this investment goes

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<v Speaker 3>to either solar and wind, with solar taking sixty eight

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<v Speaker 3>percent of emerging markets investment in twenty twenty three, and

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<v Speaker 3>a small scale solar actually took the biggest share in

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<v Speaker 3>solar investment for the first time in twenty twenty three

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<v Speaker 3>as well. Win still has a long way to go

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<v Speaker 3>in emerging markets. A toy is raising as well because

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<v Speaker 3>it's deeply concentrated in a small number of markets and

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<v Speaker 3>with fifteen markets concentrating eighty four percent of new builderyno

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<v Speaker 3>banerge investment in twenty twenty three, and if we look

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<v Speaker 3>historically in the last ten years, the figure goes to

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<v Speaker 3>seventy eight percent of total investment in emerging market going

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<v Speaker 3>to only fifteen markets. India and Brazil take the biggest shares,

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<v Speaker 3>and Brazil has actually seen a record high last year

0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:50.600
<v Speaker 3>at twenty seven billion, with most of these investments also

0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:52.200
<v Speaker 3>concentrated in solar.

0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.400
<v Speaker 1>So solar is the most popular technology, but this is

0:13:55.600 --> 0:14:01.000
<v Speaker 1>with a few economies that are really adopting at much

0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:03.560
<v Speaker 1>wider scale. So when we look at the other markets

0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:05.680
<v Speaker 1>on this list of one hundred and ten, how would

0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:09.079
<v Speaker 1>you like to see this information being used? And essentially,

0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:11.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, what are the actions that you hope that

0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:14.560
<v Speaker 1>this will end up driving or at least informing people

0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:16.880
<v Speaker 1>who are looking at it, either from a policy standpoint

0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:20.120
<v Speaker 1>or from the companies actively involved in the energy industry.

0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:23.000
<v Speaker 2>I think that the main thing here is once you

0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:27.360
<v Speaker 2>have this awareness on the policy side, like that we

0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:31.400
<v Speaker 2>have seen more emerging markets adding more clin energy policies.

0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.760
<v Speaker 2>This helps creating a un enable environment that will be

0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:38.800
<v Speaker 2>able to put some countries in this spotlight. And with

0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:42.880
<v Speaker 2>that in mind, when you have the necessary framework and

0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:46.040
<v Speaker 2>you have the necessary policies in force, this will consequently

0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:50.760
<v Speaker 2>be able to attract investors and investments, especially from abroad.

0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:53.960
<v Speaker 2>So in my opinion, the point we want to make

0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.840
<v Speaker 2>with this is that even though emerging markets are reaching

0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:02.680
<v Speaker 2>like new records and investing more and adding more renewable

0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:07.240
<v Speaker 2>energy capacity, they are still very concentrated. As an I mentioned,

0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.440
<v Speaker 2>and for the other markets, we have seen that they

0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:16.040
<v Speaker 2>are slowly progressing. So there we have seen some progress

0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:20.280
<v Speaker 2>in basically all the emerging markets that we cover. However,

0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:24.040
<v Speaker 2>these progresses still very far from what it should be

0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:28.600
<v Speaker 2>by now. So the main idea what Climate Scope really

0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:33.160
<v Speaker 2>wants to spread is that there are plenty of opportunities

0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:37.160
<v Speaker 2>to invest in emerging markets. So we often talk too

0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:42.880
<v Speaker 2>much about Brazil, Chile, China, India, so the major economies,

0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:46.120
<v Speaker 2>but sometimes we forget about the other emerging markets that

0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:50.480
<v Speaker 2>they are actually seeing huge progress. But this actually doesn't

0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.320
<v Speaker 2>compare to the other one because it's just unfair when

0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:57.960
<v Speaker 2>you look to Brazil and the high volumes of investment

0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:01.920
<v Speaker 2>that it has attracted compared to Mauritania, for example. So

0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:04.840
<v Speaker 2>what do we want to spread with that is that

0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.600
<v Speaker 2>there are opportunities. Of course there are barrias as well,

0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.440
<v Speaker 2>but there are opportunities and the countries are moving forward

0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.840
<v Speaker 2>to make this process much more smooth to be able

0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:17.600
<v Speaker 2>to attract investment, and they are becoming more prepared for that.

0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:20.520
<v Speaker 1>So let's talk about some of those markets then and

0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.160
<v Speaker 1>the ones that jumped that aren't part of that kind

0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:25.400
<v Speaker 1>of you know, big critical mass at the top. There

0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:29.760
<v Speaker 1>were several countries in Africa that actually broke into this

0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.680
<v Speaker 1>top list this year. What were some of those that

0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:35.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, climbed in the rankings and are actually making

0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:37.160
<v Speaker 1>really discernible progress.

0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.960
<v Speaker 3>So we have three markets to highlight, Kenya and Namibia

0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:44.680
<v Speaker 3>and Nigeria, which were the first African markets in three

0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:47.880
<v Speaker 3>years to join the Climate Scope Top ten. Those three

0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:54.240
<v Speaker 3>markets exemplify how an increased enabling environment and fundamentals reflect

0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:58.360
<v Speaker 3>the progress on their scars in Climate Scope. Talking about

0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:03.600
<v Speaker 3>Namibia specifically, we see that great small scale solar growth

0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:07.560
<v Speaker 3>has led the market to increase its experience care and

0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:12.080
<v Speaker 3>reach the top of the Climate'scope ranking. Nigeria, for instance,

0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:15.040
<v Speaker 3>has seen the end of the phossil fuels so anxiety

0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:18.280
<v Speaker 3>in twenty twenty three, which also led a PV boom,

0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.919
<v Speaker 3>and Kenya has also seen a similar path. So all

0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:26.320
<v Speaker 3>these markets have seen increased in adoption rates for policies

0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:32.040
<v Speaker 3>which led to deployment growth and reflected in investments as well.

0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:34.240
<v Speaker 1>So maybe they're on this list or maybe they're not.

0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:36.520
<v Speaker 1>But what was the one country for each of you

0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:38.439
<v Speaker 1>that surprised you the most this year and when you

0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:40.560
<v Speaker 1>looked at the data set, you kind of went, Okay,

0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:42.439
<v Speaker 1>I want to actually know a bit more about what

0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:44.960
<v Speaker 1>the story is in that market.

0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:50.120
<v Speaker 2>I think the one that surprised me the most was Gatemala.

0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:54.920
<v Speaker 2>So Gatemala has among Latin American countries, it has doing

0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:58.120
<v Speaker 2>really well over the past years, but reaching the top

0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:00.399
<v Speaker 2>ten was quite a surprise for me. One of the

0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:04.159
<v Speaker 2>reasons why they deserved being on the top ten is

0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:08.280
<v Speaker 2>because despite this is a small country, they and really

0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:12.360
<v Speaker 2>reliable and they have like plenty of hydroelectric power plants

0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:16.199
<v Speaker 2>in there. One thing that we have seen actually in general,

0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:19.480
<v Speaker 2>not only Guatemala, that is now making these countries does

0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.760
<v Speaker 2>emerging market switch a little bit their focus to other

0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:27.480
<v Speaker 2>renewable energy instead of hydro is because due to natural

0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:32.080
<v Speaker 2>phenomenons like El Nino, these markets that relies a lot

0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:37.920
<v Speaker 2>on hydro power, they have seen their hydrogeneration decreased a lot.

0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.440
<v Speaker 2>So this is a way for them to switch from

0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:45.840
<v Speaker 2>this reliance on hydro and then consequently start implementing policies

0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:49.680
<v Speaker 2>that gives incentive to solar and wind for example. So

0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:52.600
<v Speaker 2>right now, what is happening to Gatemala. One of the

0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:54.760
<v Speaker 2>main drivers for them to be in this top ten

0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.800
<v Speaker 2>is exactly because they have switched a little bit from

0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:01.760
<v Speaker 2>this hydro reliance and is now investing in solar.

0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:04.840
<v Speaker 3>For me, I guess I'll move back to one of

0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.960
<v Speaker 3>the countries I just listed, which is Namibia. The countries

0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:11.160
<v Speaker 3>saw some of the biggest changes in the rankings out

0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:14.720
<v Speaker 3>of all of the top ten markets, and those changes

0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:18.080
<v Speaker 3>were mostly attributed to you. As I said, the adoption

0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:21.800
<v Speaker 3>of solar. Namibia was facing a lot of issues due

0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:27.840
<v Speaker 3>to unreliable hydropower supply and also unreliable cope plants, which

0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:32.119
<v Speaker 3>led consumers to adopt a lot of small scale or

0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:35.479
<v Speaker 3>rooftop solar in their own homes to be able to

0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:39.800
<v Speaker 3>provide for electricity throughout the year. So that was the

0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:43.120
<v Speaker 3>biggest change I think a country climate Scope this year

0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.520
<v Speaker 3>saw and I think that was very impressive.

0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:48.479
<v Speaker 1>Sophia, Anna, thank you very much for joining today.

0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:58.440
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Diana, it was my pleasure to be here.

0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:03.240
<v Speaker 1>Today's episode of Switched On was produced by Cam Gray

0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:07.119
<v Speaker 1>with production assistance from Kamala Shelling. Bloomberg NIF is a

0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:10.280
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0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:13.080
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0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:16.840
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0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:19.760
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0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:23.560
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0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:26.640
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0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:30.399
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