Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: Donald Trump's next cabinet beginning to take shape. Trump picking
Speaker 2: former New York Congressman Lead Zelden to lead the Environmental
Speaker 2: Protection Agency. Trump's saying, Zelden will quote ensure fair and
Speaker 2: swift deregulatory decisions. They'll be enacted in a way to
Speaker 2: unleash the power of American businesses. Joining us now as
Speaker 2: Tom Steyer, former Democratic presidential candidate, of course and the
Speaker 2: co founder of Galvanized Climate Solutions, thank you so much
Speaker 2: for joining us around the table. So we're going to
Speaker 2: get a Trump two point out. Potentially, they're going to
Speaker 2: roll back a lot of the work the Biden administration did.
Speaker 2: When it comes to the energy transition, how much does
Speaker 2: it matter because the market is already off to the races.
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk for a second about what's really driving
Speaker 1: the energy transition, which is economics, prices and markets. Over
Speaker 1: the last four years, solar prices have gone down by
Speaker 1: sixty percent. Solar sales have gone up four x. If
Speaker 1: you look at what's happened to batteries last year, just
Speaker 1: in one year they have in China, the price had
Speaker 1: If you look at what's going on in terms of
Speaker 1: ev sales. We look at it in the United States,
Speaker 1: still going up, but not going up that fast. If
Speaker 1: you look at what's going on in China, they went
Speaker 1: up eleven percent month over month. They went up fifty
Speaker 1: percent year over year. When you look around the world,
Speaker 1: what's going on is abundant renewable energy. That is actually
Speaker 1: the story. What we're seeing in the world is a
Speaker 1: huge move to renewable energy and the energy transition happening
Speaker 1: much faster than people in the United States understand. While
Speaker 1: we're talking about oil and gas, which is basically a
Speaker 1: stagnant market.
Speaker 3: So what does that mean to have a drill baby
Speaker 3: drill policy at a time where you already have peak
Speaker 3: oil domestic production in the US and you have this
Speaker 3: transformation you're talking about.
Speaker 1: So let's put some numbers on it so that we
Speaker 1: can really understand what we're talking about. The US is
Speaker 1: the biggest oil and gas producer in the world. World
Speaker 1: we do about thirteen and a half million barrels a day.
Speaker 1: If we do drill babeled baby drill, we could take
Speaker 1: thirteen and a half and move it to fourteen. In
Speaker 1: the context of the world oil market, we're doing about
Speaker 1: one hundred and two million barrels a day. That is,
Speaker 1: this is a stagnant market. Even Opek thinks that the
Speaker 1: total amount of oil sales will go up by eight
Speaker 1: percent in the next twenty five years. Solar sales went
Speaker 1: up four x in the last four years. So what
Speaker 1: we're really seeing is an exploding clean energy market. We're
Speaker 1: not going to ever, We're not running out of oil
Speaker 1: and gas. But what we're seeing is an abundance of
Speaker 1: renewable energy and an abundance of new technologies that are
Speaker 1: competing on price. You know, I wrote a book Cheaper, Faster, Better,
Speaker 1: How We Win the Climate War, And really that's all
Speaker 1: we're seeing is market forces business. How do you win
Speaker 1: cheaper it's cheaper, faster, it's faster and better. And so
Speaker 1: when we look around the world, governments can't repeal markets.
Speaker 1: China can't repeal markets, neither can Donald Trump. What we're
Speaker 1: seeing is people around the world acting based on prices,
Speaker 1: what's in their own interest and what's the best product.
Speaker 3: There is another large source of energy demand that's really
Speaker 3: ramping up quickly besides the renewables, or it goes in
Speaker 3: tandem with the renewables, and that's the energy needed to
Speaker 3: power AI. Basically the amount equivalent to large cities needed
Speaker 3: to power just maybe even just metas AI demand. When
Speaker 3: you look at that, you look at the Trump White
Speaker 3: House push or the coming White House for deregulation. Is
Speaker 3: there red tape that needs to be cut anyway to
Speaker 3: allow for this huge source of energy that's going to
Speaker 3: be needed to power the future?
Speaker 1: Of course there is. I mean when you look at
Speaker 1: the United States, we are very very slow in terms
Speaker 1: of permitting, We're very very slow in terms of adding
Speaker 1: new clean energy products or oil and gas projects to
Speaker 1: the grid. So yes, we have a very slow moving
Speaker 1: process because so many people are allowed to weigh in.
Speaker 1: It just takes so much time. And of course we
Speaker 1: should be moving much faster. But when we really look
Speaker 1: globally about where the new we're talking AI can move
Speaker 1: US energy consumption by twenty percent over the next decade.
Speaker 1: That's a huge move for us. But if you look
Speaker 1: around the world, if you see what's happening in Asia,
Speaker 1: Southeast Asia and South Asia, like in India, it is
Speaker 1: going exponentially. They're going to do five times as much
Speaker 1: electricity by twenty fifty five. Times as much. And so
Speaker 1: when we really think about what's going on in terms
Speaker 1: of what's driving prices, what's driving volumes around the world,
Speaker 1: where the real business is, what we're seeing is it's
Speaker 1: really in renewables.
Speaker 4: And it's interesting. Just as we touch on on that
Speaker 4: oil subject, OPAC has released their report oil consumption is
Speaker 4: done eighteen percent since July. This is the fourth consecutive
Speaker 4: cut that they have in terms of demand, and that's
Speaker 4: to do the chinel. I want to focus on one
Speaker 4: of the things that erks Donald Trump's Donald Trump, we
Speaker 4: know is other people eating America's lunch and any move
Speaker 4: that he makes to step back on I R which
Speaker 4: has done very well in the Red States, by.
Speaker 1: The way, overwhelmingly in the words in the Red States.
Speaker 4: So just how aggressive a pullback is are going to be,
Speaker 4: because I can tell you why, there's a lot of
Speaker 4: European and global CEO city and I there are going
Speaker 4: I'm ready to eat your lunch. If you don't want
Speaker 4: to do if you don't want to build this business,
Speaker 4: We're ready to do it.
Speaker 1: Look, that is the point I'm trying to make, which
Speaker 1: is America has to compete America if we're going to
Speaker 1: this transition is happening. America should be leading it. This
Speaker 1: is an absolute necessity for us to be the leading
Speaker 1: economic country in the world, the leading political country in
Speaker 1: the world. And I think it's going to be clear
Speaker 1: no matter how mister Trump feels about what should happen,
Speaker 1: what is happening is this transition, and American companies can
Speaker 1: absolutely dominate here. But we have to choose to do it,
Speaker 1: and we have to put the money into it, and
Speaker 1: we have to put the manpower into it. So I
Speaker 1: look at this as a great chance for business, and
Speaker 1: it's just business. This is just about what is cheaper, faster,
Speaker 1: and better, and that is traditionally what Americans have done
Speaker 1: really well at.
Speaker 4: Well, then what level of stimulus could we see from him?
Speaker 4: What level of incentive could we see for these areas.
Speaker 4: He's been very very very very heavy on the rhetoric
Speaker 4: against a lot of the incentives that we're in the IRA,
Speaker 4: et cetera. So how does he temper with that? How
Speaker 4: does he balance this?
Speaker 1: I really think that what's going to drive this is
Speaker 1: American business, that it's not. Of course, the incentives of
Speaker 1: the IRA were important in terms of deployment of solar,
Speaker 1: of wind and the sale of evs. But the truth
Speaker 1: is all of those things are going to keep happening globally.
Speaker 1: All of those things are going to keep happening in
Speaker 1: the United States. I mean, if you think about the
Speaker 1: idea of solar prices going down by sixty percent, if
Speaker 1: that would be oil going to thirty two bucks, from
Speaker 1: eighty bucks to thirty two bucks, that didn't happen. But
Speaker 1: you know something, it's not stopping down sixty We'll go
Speaker 1: down another sixty percent and they'll be at the equivalent
Speaker 1: of fifty fifteen bucks, Tommy, or the barrel of oil.
Speaker 1: If the that's dominance.
Speaker 2: If the private sector is doing this already, though, and
Speaker 2: there was concerns that spending too much at a time
Speaker 2: on inflation at one point during the Biden presidency hit
Speaker 2: more than nine percent, then what was the point of
Speaker 2: something like the Inflation Reduction Act. The former president future
Speaker 2: president continues to talk about that he's happy with clean energy.
Speaker 2: He has someone like Elon Musk surrounding him, but he
Speaker 2: thinks it should be driven by the private sector.
Speaker 1: It is going to be driven by the private sector.
Speaker 1: It is driven by the private sector. I think when
Speaker 1: I think about the inflation Reduction Act. I think about
Speaker 1: an attempt to try to subsidize companies that are clean,
Speaker 1: to try and put them on a level playing field
Speaker 1: with companies that are polluting. That's really how I think
Speaker 1: about it. But over time, when these prices come down,
Speaker 1: the subsidies go the need for subsidies goes away, and
Speaker 1: that's really what Let me give you one example. Over
Speaker 1: the last three years, Texas has tripled the amount of
Speaker 1: solar it uses Texas they are by far the biggest
Speaker 1: wind producer in the United States. The four biggest wind
Speaker 1: producers in the United States are all deep red states.
Speaker 1: They're not doing it because they love the concept of renewables.
Speaker 1: They're doing it because it's cheaper, because it's good business.
Speaker 1: And that's what we're seeing is in fact, cheaper, faster,
Speaker 1: better markets, prices, economics. That's what's driving this world. People
Speaker 1: are talking, people are saying things, but really what's going
Speaker 1: on behind the scenes is just you know, you guys
Speaker 1: were talking about the dollar. What's driving the dollar? What's
Speaker 1: driving interest rates, prices and markets? You can't revoke them.
Speaker 1: We're in a world where, in fact, we are going
Speaker 1: a very straightforward way and we can talk about it,
Speaker 1: and the sentiment can move back and forth. But if
Speaker 1: you look at the first Trump administration, actually clean energy
Speaker 1: did really well.
Speaker 2: It did.
Speaker 1: Yes, there was a lot of rhetoric, there was a
Speaker 1: lot of anger, there was a lot of emotion, but
Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is the world just kept
Speaker 1: powering right through it.
Speaker 2: Tom, We thank you for your time this morning.
Speaker 1: It's great to see you.
Speaker 2: Tom Styr of Galvanized Climates Solutions