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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump's next cabinet beginning to take shape. Trump picking

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Speaker 2: former New York Congressman Lead Zelden to lead the Environmental

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Speaker 2: Protection Agency. Trump's saying, Zelden will quote ensure fair and

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Speaker 2: swift deregulatory decisions. They'll be enacted in a way to

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Speaker 2: unleash the power of American businesses. Joining us now as

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Speaker 2: Tom Steyer, former Democratic presidential candidate, of course and the

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Speaker 2: co founder of Galvanized Climate Solutions, thank you so much

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Speaker 2: for joining us around the table. So we're going to

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Speaker 2: get a Trump two point out. Potentially, they're going to

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Speaker 2: roll back a lot of the work the Biden administration did.

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Speaker 2: When it comes to the energy transition, how much does

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Speaker 2: it matter because the market is already off to the races.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's talk for a second about what's really driving

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Speaker 1: the energy transition, which is economics, prices and markets. Over

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Speaker 1: the last four years, solar prices have gone down by

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Speaker 1: sixty percent. Solar sales have gone up four x. If

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Speaker 1: you look at what's happened to batteries last year, just

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Speaker 1: in one year they have in China, the price had

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Speaker 1: If you look at what's going on in terms of

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Speaker 1: ev sales. We look at it in the United States,

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Speaker 1: still going up, but not going up that fast. If

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Speaker 1: you look at what's going on in China, they went

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Speaker 1: up eleven percent month over month. They went up fifty

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Speaker 1: percent year over year. When you look around the world,

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Speaker 1: what's going on is abundant renewable energy. That is actually

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Speaker 1: the story. What we're seeing in the world is a

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Speaker 1: huge move to renewable energy and the energy transition happening

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Speaker 1: much faster than people in the United States understand. While

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Speaker 1: we're talking about oil and gas, which is basically a

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Speaker 1: stagnant market.

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Speaker 3: So what does that mean to have a drill baby

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Speaker 3: drill policy at a time where you already have peak

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Speaker 3: oil domestic production in the US and you have this

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Speaker 3: transformation you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: So let's put some numbers on it so that we

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Speaker 1: can really understand what we're talking about. The US is

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Speaker 1: the biggest oil and gas producer in the world. World

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Speaker 1: we do about thirteen and a half million barrels a day.

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Speaker 1: If we do drill babeled baby drill, we could take

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Speaker 1: thirteen and a half and move it to fourteen. In

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Speaker 1: the context of the world oil market, we're doing about

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Speaker 1: one hundred and two million barrels a day. That is,

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Speaker 1: this is a stagnant market. Even Opek thinks that the

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Speaker 1: total amount of oil sales will go up by eight

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Speaker 1: percent in the next twenty five years. Solar sales went

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Speaker 1: up four x in the last four years. So what

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Speaker 1: we're really seeing is an exploding clean energy market. We're

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Speaker 1: not going to ever, We're not running out of oil

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Speaker 1: and gas. But what we're seeing is an abundance of

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Speaker 1: renewable energy and an abundance of new technologies that are

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Speaker 1: competing on price. You know, I wrote a book Cheaper, Faster, Better,

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Speaker 1: How We Win the Climate War, And really that's all

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Speaker 1: we're seeing is market forces business. How do you win

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Speaker 1: cheaper it's cheaper, faster, it's faster and better. And so

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Speaker 1: when we look around the world, governments can't repeal markets.

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Speaker 1: China can't repeal markets, neither can Donald Trump. What we're

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Speaker 1: seeing is people around the world acting based on prices,

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Speaker 1: what's in their own interest and what's the best product.

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Speaker 3: There is another large source of energy demand that's really

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Speaker 3: ramping up quickly besides the renewables, or it goes in

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Speaker 3: tandem with the renewables, and that's the energy needed to

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Speaker 3: power AI. Basically the amount equivalent to large cities needed

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Speaker 3: to power just maybe even just metas AI demand. When

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Speaker 3: you look at that, you look at the Trump White

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Speaker 3: House push or the coming White House for deregulation. Is

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Speaker 3: there red tape that needs to be cut anyway to

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Speaker 3: allow for this huge source of energy that's going to

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Speaker 3: be needed to power the future?

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Speaker 1: Of course there is. I mean when you look at

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Speaker 1: the United States, we are very very slow in terms

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Speaker 1: of permitting, We're very very slow in terms of adding

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Speaker 1: new clean energy products or oil and gas projects to

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Speaker 1: the grid. So yes, we have a very slow moving

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Speaker 1: process because so many people are allowed to weigh in.

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Speaker 1: It just takes so much time. And of course we

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Speaker 1: should be moving much faster. But when we really look

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Speaker 1: globally about where the new we're talking AI can move

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Speaker 1: US energy consumption by twenty percent over the next decade.

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Speaker 1: That's a huge move for us. But if you look

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Speaker 1: around the world, if you see what's happening in Asia,

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Speaker 1: Southeast Asia and South Asia, like in India, it is

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Speaker 1: going exponentially. They're going to do five times as much

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Speaker 1: electricity by twenty fifty five. Times as much. And so

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Speaker 1: when we really think about what's going on in terms

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Speaker 1: of what's driving prices, what's driving volumes around the world,

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Speaker 1: where the real business is, what we're seeing is it's

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Speaker 1: really in renewables.

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Speaker 4: And it's interesting. Just as we touch on on that

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Speaker 4: oil subject, OPAC has released their report oil consumption is

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Speaker 4: done eighteen percent since July. This is the fourth consecutive

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Speaker 4: cut that they have in terms of demand, and that's

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Speaker 4: to do the chinel. I want to focus on one

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Speaker 4: of the things that erks Donald Trump's Donald Trump, we

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Speaker 4: know is other people eating America's lunch and any move

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Speaker 4: that he makes to step back on I R which

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Speaker 4: has done very well in the Red States, by.

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Speaker 1: The way, overwhelmingly in the words in the Red States.

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Speaker 4: So just how aggressive a pullback is are going to be,

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Speaker 4: because I can tell you why, there's a lot of

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Speaker 4: European and global CEO city and I there are going

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Speaker 4: I'm ready to eat your lunch. If you don't want

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Speaker 4: to do if you don't want to build this business,

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Speaker 4: We're ready to do it.

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Speaker 1: Look, that is the point I'm trying to make, which

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Speaker 1: is America has to compete America if we're going to

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Speaker 1: this transition is happening. America should be leading it. This

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Speaker 1: is an absolute necessity for us to be the leading

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Speaker 1: economic country in the world, the leading political country in

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Speaker 1: the world. And I think it's going to be clear

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Speaker 1: no matter how mister Trump feels about what should happen,

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Speaker 1: what is happening is this transition, and American companies can

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Speaker 1: absolutely dominate here. But we have to choose to do it,

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Speaker 1: and we have to put the money into it, and

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Speaker 1: we have to put the manpower into it. So I

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Speaker 1: look at this as a great chance for business, and

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Speaker 1: it's just business. This is just about what is cheaper, faster,

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Speaker 1: and better, and that is traditionally what Americans have done

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Speaker 1: really well at.

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Speaker 4: Well, then what level of stimulus could we see from him?

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Speaker 4: What level of incentive could we see for these areas.

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Speaker 4: He's been very very very very heavy on the rhetoric

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Speaker 4: against a lot of the incentives that we're in the IRA,

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Speaker 4: et cetera. So how does he temper with that? How

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Speaker 4: does he balance this?

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Speaker 1: I really think that what's going to drive this is

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Speaker 1: American business, that it's not. Of course, the incentives of

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Speaker 1: the IRA were important in terms of deployment of solar,

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Speaker 1: of wind and the sale of evs. But the truth

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Speaker 1: is all of those things are going to keep happening globally.

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Speaker 1: All of those things are going to keep happening in

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Speaker 1: the United States. I mean, if you think about the

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Speaker 1: idea of solar prices going down by sixty percent, if

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Speaker 1: that would be oil going to thirty two bucks, from

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Speaker 1: eighty bucks to thirty two bucks, that didn't happen. But

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Speaker 1: you know something, it's not stopping down sixty We'll go

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Speaker 1: down another sixty percent and they'll be at the equivalent

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Speaker 1: of fifty fifteen bucks, Tommy, or the barrel of oil.

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Speaker 1: If the that's dominance.

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Speaker 2: If the private sector is doing this already, though, and

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Speaker 2: there was concerns that spending too much at a time

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Speaker 2: on inflation at one point during the Biden presidency hit

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Speaker 2: more than nine percent, then what was the point of

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Speaker 2: something like the Inflation Reduction Act. The former president future

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Speaker 2: president continues to talk about that he's happy with clean energy.

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Speaker 2: He has someone like Elon Musk surrounding him, but he

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Speaker 2: thinks it should be driven by the private sector.

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Speaker 1: It is going to be driven by the private sector.

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Speaker 1: It is driven by the private sector. I think when

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Speaker 1: I think about the inflation Reduction Act. I think about

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Speaker 1: an attempt to try to subsidize companies that are clean,

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Speaker 1: to try and put them on a level playing field

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Speaker 1: with companies that are polluting. That's really how I think

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Speaker 1: about it. But over time, when these prices come down,

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Speaker 1: the subsidies go the need for subsidies goes away, and

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Speaker 1: that's really what Let me give you one example. Over

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Speaker 1: the last three years, Texas has tripled the amount of

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Speaker 1: solar it uses Texas they are by far the biggest

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Speaker 1: wind producer in the United States. The four biggest wind

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Speaker 1: producers in the United States are all deep red states.

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Speaker 1: They're not doing it because they love the concept of renewables.

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Speaker 1: They're doing it because it's cheaper, because it's good business.

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Speaker 1: And that's what we're seeing is in fact, cheaper, faster,

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Speaker 1: better markets, prices, economics. That's what's driving this world. People

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Speaker 1: are talking, people are saying things, but really what's going

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Speaker 1: on behind the scenes is just you know, you guys

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Speaker 1: were talking about the dollar. What's driving the dollar? What's

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Speaker 1: driving interest rates, prices and markets? You can't revoke them.

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Speaker 1: We're in a world where, in fact, we are going

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Speaker 1: a very straightforward way and we can talk about it,

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Speaker 1: and the sentiment can move back and forth. But if

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Speaker 1: you look at the first Trump administration, actually clean energy

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Speaker 1: did really well.

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Speaker 2: It did.

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Speaker 1: Yes, there was a lot of rhetoric, there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of anger, there was a lot of emotion, but

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Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is the world just kept

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Speaker 1: powering right through it.

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Speaker 2: Tom, We thank you for your time this morning.

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Speaker 1: It's great to see you.

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Speaker 2: Tom Styr of Galvanized Climates Solutions