WEBVTT - Birthing a Cruel Nation 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:15.000 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:20.840 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Pre recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:24.960 I hope that you have been enjoying these conversations this 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:30.840 week on wokaf's Cookout, where we are having conversations with 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:36.400 some of our favorite guests to delve into this complicated 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:41.720 week of celebrating America's independence. What does it mean to 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:48.360 live free in a democracy that is backsliding? What does 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:55.000 it mean to have patriotism towards a country that has 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:59.920 done everything and anything that it can to ensure your 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:04.440 subjugation if you are black, indigenous, or a person of 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:10.160 color or from a marginalized community, and so on today's episode, 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:14.120 I am so grateful to be in conversation once again 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:18.080 with my friend, doctor Christina Greer, who is a political 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:22.720 scientist and associate professor at Fordham University here in New 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:27.039 York City. She is also the author of Black Ethnics 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:31.720 and the co host of faqn YC and host of 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:38.160 the Blackest Questions on the Grio. In this conversation with Christina, 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:40.679 and you know, if you've been listening to WOKF that 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:45.840 Christina joins the show. Ever so often, you know, we 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:51.040 talk about the complications of being a black woman in 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:54.840 these United States. How do we keep our sanity, let 0:01:54.880 --> 0:02:00.760 alone have some semblance of freedom in a country that 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:04.760 wants to right on all of its marble buildings and 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:13.680 statues and plaques, use quotes and messages about justice and equity, 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:19.639 and we know that those things are false advertising. Because 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.960 when you just begin to slowly peel back the layers right, 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:28.280 or just slowly begin to open up your eyes to 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:34.160 the real America, you know, the the activation that is 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:39.560 happening behind the curtain, behind the smoke and mirrors, you 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:47.160 realize that this country, boy, you know, is kind of 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:53.000 the master at gaslighting. And you know, for those of 0:02:53.080 --> 0:03:01.960 us who have built careers around wanting to perfect our union, 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:07.200 wanting to educate those to believe that they have the 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:11.800 power and the ability to shape the future of this country, 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:17.360 some days, folks are better than others. Some days feel 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:21.079 a lot better than others. And there are times when 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:23.880 we're just like, you know what, fuck it, y'all can 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:26.799 have this mess right, you can burn it down if 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:29.880 you want to, just leave me the fuck alone. And 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:35.960 the reality is is that Unfortunately, white Evangelical Christians, the 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:41.680 far right, the you know, Republican cult party, They refuse 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:44.840 to leave people alone. We do not live in a 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:48.920 live and let live society. It's live and let me 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:53.200 oppress you and contort you into the ideas of who 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.760 you should be, who I think you should be, and 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:59.640 not who you tell me that you are. And so 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:04.800 this conversation with my friend, doctor Christina Greer, we talk about, 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:09.360 you know, her work as a professor in trying to 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:12.520 shape the minds or open the minds and expand the 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:16.960 minds of the next generation of political scientists. We talk 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:22.320 about her ideas around freedom and liberty and equity and 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:28.240 how we keep our shit together when some days we 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:30.920 just want to walk out of our front door and 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:35.120 just you know, give a primal scream. I wish we 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:37.599 could all just decide on the time of day that 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:39.920 we would do that and just do it. I think 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:41.960 it would do us all a great deal of good. 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:52.200 I hope that you enjoy this conversation between myself and Christina. Folks, 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:56.920 you know, whenever I have the opportunity to rope in 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:01.520 my friend doctor Christina Greer, Political se Scientists Associate Professor 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:07.560 at fordom University, an author of Black Ethnics, and co 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:11.919 hosts of f BAC NYC, and the host of the 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:16.159 Blackest Questions on the Grio pod. I am overwhelmed with 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:19.159 joy because we get into so many conversations and Christine, 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:21.080 I will tell you this, a lot of people will 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:23.960 tweet me and be like, I love when you have 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:28.800 a Christina Greer on It's the best conversation. So so 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:34.599 welcome back to wok F. It is fourth of July 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:39.480 week and on the pod, we are doing our cookout 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.000 where we are bringing on our favorites and you are 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:44.719 definitely always at the top of that list. But we 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:49.120 also want to talk about and have conversations around what 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:53.680 does it mean to celebrate this country's independence. I have 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:57.000 a very complicated relationship as well as many people know. 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:02.040 And you know, the fourth of July, you know, it 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:04.560 is a bunch of flags waving and people putting out 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:08.119 their flags and going to old Navy and purchasing flag gear, 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:13.240 and that he is supposed to identify their patriotism, right, 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:18.200 but us, you know, black folk in particular, you know, 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:21.160 just marching in the streets and actually wanting this country 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:24.559 to live up to this creed. We are not seen 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:30.520 as patriots. We are seen as antagonists to America's legacy. 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:34.479 So in this season of America. 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:34.920 How are you? 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:38.120 How does the Fourth of July holiday land for you? 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.719 Yeah? Well, first of all, black people are the original 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.960 and true patriots of this nation. So there's that. I'm 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:47.640 still laughing about old Navy because I don't know how 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:49.760 they got a hold on Fourth of July, but that's 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:53.520 their thing, but they do. Yeah, it's totally their thing. Yeah. 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:56.760 So here's the thing, Like when you rewind and you 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:00.200 think about the Fourth of July, it's the celebration. You know, 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:06.200 we basically escaped from the shackles of Britain and let 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:08.000 them tell it. It's like we're a bunch of like 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:12.080 criminal derelicts that ran across the ocean and rereak taboc. 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:16.920 So our origin story has never been correct, Like we've 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:21.160 just created these false narratives and origins stories. I mean, 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:23.200 the same way we talk about like Kim Jong il 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:25.800 and Kim Jong un just created these like fake narratives 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.400 of North Korea. So do we I mean, that's just 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:33.040 that's just what countries do. Sadly, and we have this 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:38.440 independence in the shadow of genocide and chattel slavery and 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:42.480 just real brutality and exclusion. And now fast forward to 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:45.400 twenty twenty three, we're supposed to stand outside in line 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:49.960 for fireworks and celebrate this great nation. Now that being said, 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:52.400 I do think that, you know, there is a lot 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:56.120 of potential in this country, but it's because of the 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.720 people who are most abused, who actually have invested in 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:02.600 this nation to try and make it into the thing 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:07.120 that it's supposed to be. It's far from the ideals, 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:10.160 but we have to be realistic to say that we 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:12.560 have come a very long way. I mean the fact 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:14.880 that the two of us are not enslaved and we're 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:20.560 sitting here chopping it up on a podcast. So the 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:24.640 issue with America is that we have never answered the 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:27.280 question as to like, who really gets to be a citizen. 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:31.520 Deep down, we're still kind of grappling with that because 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:33.679 you know, as I write about black ethnics, as you mentioned, 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:36.079 you know, black people, it's like we always get to 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:38.319 be American with a prefix. We don't just have to 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:42.600 be American, yeah, you know, and lots of other people 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:46.199 get to be Americans based on phenotype, and we see 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:47.880 a lot of people are trying their hardest and their 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:50.560 damned is to try and just be American without whatever 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:56.600 their ethnic preface prefix will be. But I think we 0:08:56.720 --> 0:09:00.440 still have not really grappled with specifically for black people, 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:04.880 because there's a there's a definitive dichotomous relationship between black 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:07.880 people and white people, largely because black people are the 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:13.240 only immigrant group, migrant group that is a non voluntary immigrant. 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:16.760 Everyone else came here looking for something. You know, Nikki Haley, 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:21.000 I see you. So you know, everyone's families, you know, 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:24.440 chose this country for a reason because they wanted something. 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:26.840 They believed in the ideals. Black Americans we have a 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:30.000 different narrative, We have a different relationship with this country. 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:33.440 So when we think about our citizenship and our quest 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:36.280 to be included, as we fight for this country, and 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:38.800 we've been in every single war since the beginning of 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:42.000 this nation, right so as we celebrate seventeen seventy six, 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:44.800 you know, we're going to have this big two hundred 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:48.520 and fifty year anniversary coming up in three years. You know, 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.079 we've fought and died and bled for this country. We've 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:53.520 been lynched in our uniforms in this country. You know, 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:57.200 after we came back. We survived atrocities abroad, only to 0:09:57.280 --> 0:09:59.720 come back and you know, be caught up in the 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:04.720 hand of you know, white domestic terrorism. So on the 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:08.800 fourth of July, I'm reflecting on all that this country 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:11.920 has been, all that it could be, and to be 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:14.439 very honest, And this is one of my bosses told 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:15.920 me when I worked for the High Commissioner of the 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.439 Gambia in London many years ago, and I was like, oh, America, 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:21.400 and I was talking crap about America and he was like, 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:24.400 but it's your country, Chrissy. He's like, why do you 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:26.120 let them sort of make you believe that it's not 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:29.280 your country. He's like, you've been there longer than most people. 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:31.839 I mean, you know your people. He's like, your people 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.400 have built X, Y and Z, your people have toiled, 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.040 your people have actually helped the country move forward, So 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:39.800 why would you abandon something that is rightfully yours? And 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:43.440 so I always remember that conversation from nineteen ninety eight, 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:45.640 and I really try and remember, like, yeah, this is 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:49.920 my country, and like my ancestors actually have contributed more 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:53.560 than most and sacrificed more than most. Right, so I 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.840 actually am allowed to celebrate how I feel like it. 0:10:57.080 --> 0:11:00.360 And part of being an American without a prefix, all 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:02.439 with the prefix, is that I get to celebrate the 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:06.120 fourth of July however I see fit and however my 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.000 spirit moves me that day. And so if I feel 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:12.160 like going to a cookout, sure, if I feel like, 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:15.000 you know, hanging out with friends and seeing fireworks, sure 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:18.320 if I feel like reading you know, sol on ice 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:20.760 and sitting at home and you know, reading black literature 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:24.160 and not acknowledging the jolly forth other than the fact 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.160 that I can't go to the post office. That's my 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:30.280 prerogative too. So I think I'm just sitting in my 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:35.000 feelings as to where this country has gone and all 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:39.000 the beautiful things that it has produced, and all the 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:43.320 ways that it still has to live up to its ideals. 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:44.960 You know. 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.240 I think that that's really interesting. And what you say 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.080 with regard to what a friend of yours has said, 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:54.880 like it's your country too, like don't make them, you know, 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:57.000 make you think that it's not. And I think that 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:02.840 that has been the desire right of white supremacy, which 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.000 is to make it not that we are visitors, because 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.359 a visitor you welcome in, a visitor. 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.120 You no, they treat us like vampires, where it's like 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:12.080 we're just stuck on the porch. 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:15.959 Right, we have not invited you in, or you are 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.800 the stain, Right, you are the problem, You are the stain. 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:21.480 You are to be in the back of the house. 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:23.959 That's where we that's where we felt comfortable with you, 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:26.760 with you in the kitchen, not in the front, and 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:28.959 people knowing that you exist. And you know, one of 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.600 the things that I have done, and I talk about this, 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:35.800 uh with with my friend the wherever Mark Thompson because 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:39.319 he has done it on his show is reread right 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:42.760 Frederick Douglas is you know what to the slave is 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:46.120 the fourth of July And every year for the last 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.760 couple of years that I have reread that and sometimes 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.920 I've recited it with my sister on Instagram lives, I 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:56.320 have recited it on this show. It takes me to 0:12:56.520 --> 0:13:03.840 a place where I realize, you know, if not for right, 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:10.120 if not for the enslaved, right, if not for their 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:13.840 forced labor, if not for their blood, if not for 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.920 their tears, if not for the ripping away of family, 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.560 if not for all of their sacrifices, where the fuck 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.880 would America have been America would never have been able 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:26.319 to fight off the British. America would have never have 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:30.240 been able to claim its independence because it would not 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:35.200 have had the economic capability to fucking do so. And 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:40.120 so I get so enraged because I feel like there 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:46.960 has been a entire industry that has been created to 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:51.120 make us believe that we do not belong, and all 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:55.240 we have ever done in this country post our enslavement 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:59.160 is be that square that is trying to fit into 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:03.480 this circle, right that it rejects us at every which way. 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:07.240 And so there is a part of me that I 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:12.040 remember really being like, you know, my family's Jamaican, right, 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.920 Like my family came to this country in the nineteen seventies, 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:18.679 Like y'all can have your fucking Fourth of July, Like 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.720 I really don't care, right, but then recognize it, but 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:24.920 I am American. They came to the United States, so 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:29.200 that right being something right, And so there is just 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:32.960 this conflict of I don't want to own this pile 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:38.360 of shit, right because it's fraudulent and its depiction of 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:42.360 what democracy and what patriotism is. I feel like the 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:46.160 Fourth of July to me is a charade, right, It 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:51.440 is very much a charade, and even after now the 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:56.440 Congress had wanted to make Juneteenth the federal holiday, while 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:58.800 we have twenty three states in this country that have 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:05.720 outlawed thought it is. It's an aggressive insult to our 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.120 intellect and to our ancestors sacrifice. 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.480 Yeah, but we know that like this country is one 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:16.000 a historic two loves the celebration with no real conversation. 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:22.120 And three you know, when we say American, I think 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:27.800 the default system is whiteness. So it is incumbent upon 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:33.120 us to complicate what this holiday is amongst ourselves and 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:35.080 then you know, share it with the wider audience. I mean, 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.240 it would be nice if white people instigated the conversation, 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:41.680 but when have we ever seen that? Like that doesn't happen, 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:46.640 so we have to sort of say, hey, problematic, here's why. Right. 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:49.920 And again I said this all the time to white 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.200 allies who were just like what should I be doing? 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:56.560 And I always say, it's like, remember when you're about 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:58.120 to have a party at the house or cook out 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:00.680 or whatever, and your mom is running around trying to 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:04.200 get everything together, right, you have people coming and I 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:06.800 love it, and it's like, what should I be doing? 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:09.080 And she gives you that look like, girl, if you 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:11.920 don't look around and start lifting some things like why 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.920 do I need to tell you to empty these trash cans? Right, 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:18.240 to cut these vegetables, to make these beds? Like So, 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:20.920 I just think that in our quest to have these 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:25.200 hard conversations, continuously hard conversations, right, just about police brutality, 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.120 not just about inequities in school and housing, not just 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:30.440 about the way that you know, black women get ignored 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:34.040 in all facets of politics and policy. But in this conversation, 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:38.120 even in this larger like, while we celebrate this seemingly 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:41.880 benign thing, it's like, well, why do you think X 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:45.640 percent of you know, your fellow countrymen think that it's 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:50.960 a bullshit holiday? Dot dot dot? Look around, answer some 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:55.160 questions for yourself. Right, read a book. We've got the interweb. 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:57.320 Like I tell my students all the time, I'm like, hey, y'all, 0:16:57.480 --> 0:16:59.880 I didn't have college. I didn't have internet in the college. 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:03.240 What I'm like, Right, I did not have the Internet 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:03.840 in college. 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:08.320 Okay, barely I see these books behind barely had it read. 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:11.239 Like these are real, real live books. Right, barely had 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:13.840 the internet in grad school. So you won't have no 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:19.639 excuse to not have this information at your fingertips. But 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:21.439 I think you know, we sort of live in like 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:25.520 very different countries within the same country, and we also 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:27.600 subscribe to these narratives. You know, you got somebody like 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:29.399 ryand de Santis. It's like rind de Santis, you and 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:32.000 your people just got here. So you tell people leave, 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:35.440 It's like you just got here. So but we see 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:40.040 sometimes the newest newcomers are the cruelest, and they're the 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:42.359 ones that want to cut the latter out from from 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:44.440 anyone who wants to come right, you know, talking to 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:48.199 people who used to be undocumented and they're immigrants themselves. 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.640 You know, I'm thinking about Latinos in Arizona right now, 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:54.080 and it's like, wow, you are really anti immigrant. Job. 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:56.000 Why don't you ever read like five minutes ago. So 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:59.440 like we're not having these complicated conversations about how all 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:03.520 these all these different angles of what it means to 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:05.320 be in America, what it means to be a citizen, 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.520 are wrapped up or should be wrapped up in conversations 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:10.439 that we should have on the fourth of July about 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.360 what does it mean to birth the nation from another 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:18.679 cruel nation? The differences they did all their other nastiness 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:20.520 on other people's soil, so they didn't have to look 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:22.800 at it at the kitchen table, whereas America was like, ooh, 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.840 let's try something new, let's do it in our own house, right, 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:27.959 so that I can get my wife and my kids 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:29.880 in on the project. The British didn't do that. They 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:32.119 were like, let's go to the four corners of the 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:35.760 earth and do horrific things. But then we can, you know, 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:39.240 take shower, change our clothes, come back, come back to England, 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:40.840 sit in front of our families and pretend that, you know, 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:44.560 we're civilized people. In America they were like, no, I 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:47.439 got to get Missan in on it. And by the 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:51.200 time my child's four, they fully know how to be 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:55.800 an enslabor right, they fully understand race and racism and 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:59.399 the power dynamics they're in and how they can control 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.600 a grown as black man, right as a child a 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:07.280 white child. So there are different ways that America adopted 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:11.600 British cruelty. I mean, they're just British people with soil 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:14.960 and changed their names the same with like Australians. You know, 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:16.399 it was like a whole bunch of British criminals. We 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:22.800 get it. So that history as to like the husk 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:26.840 that we come from, you know, the the nation that 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:31.200 birthed this nation, it's like, was highly problematic with how 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:35.119 they treated people in Jamaica for example, right, or people 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:40.240 in India, or you name said country across the Caribbean, 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:45.399 across you know the yeah, you name it. When you 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:48.000 go to the British Virgin Islands. I mean, I told you. 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:51.359 I was just in Saint Martin. I was like, Wow, 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:54.080 the French and the Dutch just came up here, couldn't 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:55.879 get it together, split up a whole island and it 0:19:55.960 --> 0:20:00.240 was just like oughay like and we still run things, 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.160 still rent it. Like you can barely even get property 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:04.960 on the French side because it's like unless you your 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:07.960 grandfather ad it your sol And I was like, so 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:10.959 we think about all these European nations that did this 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:17.840 stuff and how America's emulated this horrendous behavior. The difference is, yes, 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:20.400 we have done it. Listen, ask people from Puerto Rico 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:23.639 and Guam, right, and Saint Croix how America does it. 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:29.160 But we also have done it on our own terra pharma. 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:32.520 And for me, July fourth is the time to reflect 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:37.000 on all the amazing things that this country has produced. 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:38.960 There was a great play called Ain't No Mo that 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:41.840 was off Broadway and then it got to Broadway. Unfortunately 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:44.760 it didn't do very well, but I mean you did okay, 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.320 I guess, but it ended early. But one of the 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:49.320 beautiful things about this play was they had to, like 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:52.959 when they were going to Africa, all them on an 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:57.640 airplane together, everybody, Barack Obama was flaningplane. They couldn't take 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:03.320 anything that we birthed in America. So it's like, what 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:04.840 do you mean. We can't take our music, we can't 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:07.720 take our literature, we can't take our art, Like and 0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:13.440 you realize we've created the cultural schema of the United States, right, 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:17.120 so many art forms, so many forms of everything, political, thought, 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:18.840 whatever it may be. It's like it comes from us. 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:21.879 So for me to turn my back on a country 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:24.720 that you know, the vast majority of all the great 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:28.439 things come from people who are you know, I'm descendant of, 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:31.560 I can't. I can't turn my back on that. So 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:33.600 like I am kind of proud to a certain extent 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:36.719 to be part of this really great lineage. It just 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:38.400 happens to be, you know. 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:39.720 So fraud. 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:41.720 Sometimes it feels like polishing in. 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:46.360 Turt Yeah, and that's exactly right, Like, that's that's exactly right. 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:48.800 I think that all of the things that you just 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:51.920 stated I never really thought about in terms of what 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:57.080 the British Empire did. They did, you know, through manifest destiny. 0:21:57.160 --> 0:22:00.360 They did through you know, and then they come back 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:03.320 as heroes every time that they return. Look what we have, 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:06.639 we what we are bringing to your people, and we 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:09.960 can we can tell this tall tale, this fucking lie, 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:12.960 not about the raping and the pillaging and the murder 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:16.560 and the scalping and all of these horrendous things that 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:19.720 you were doing, the brutalization that you were doing. You're 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:22.600 just coming back with the goods, and the people are like, 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:25.639 look at our explorers, and that's the story that they tell. 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:28.560 But what America did was just like, no, we're gonna 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:32.359 show you our brutality right in your front yard, but 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:36.000 then we're gonna spend two almost two hundred and fifty 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:38.840 years lying about it. To what you saw in front 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:41.560 of your what you saw with your own eyes. It's like, 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:43.920 are like what it's like that. 0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:45.840 Old joke when you know the woman walks in and 0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:48.400 her husband having sex with another woman, in the bed 0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:50.720 and he's like, maybe, who you gonna believe me or 0:22:50.800 --> 0:22:55.840 your own eyes. It's like that's what America. 0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:56.800 Say every every time, that they're fucking up. 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:02.680 Me or your eye. And it's like, but here's the thing. 0:23:02.720 --> 0:23:05.040 I mean, as we crack up laughing, I think this 0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:07.000 is also the part of the beauty of it, because 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:10.240 it's like we've also created a whole new wing of humor, 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:13.120 like you know, Gallows humor if you will, I mean, 0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:15.320 you know, I think that there's a you know, there 0:23:15.320 --> 0:23:17.800 are lots of really interesting books written about like Jewish 0:23:17.880 --> 0:23:21.399 humor and fascinated with humor, and you know, I like 0:23:21.440 --> 0:23:23.280 to hang out with comedians. I just think that they're 0:23:23.480 --> 0:23:26.400 some of the smartest people on the planet when done correctly. 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:29.040 But you know, the fact that black people can find 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:34.040 the funny in almost anything, especially dealing in this country, 0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:38.679 comes from knowing who like we we are looking at 0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:42.040 y'all laughing because it's like you really think that, hey, 0:23:42.080 --> 0:23:44.199 you're pulling the wool over our eyes and right like 0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:47.560 you believe that this country is like, oh, she's perfect. 0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:49.280 It's just you all of the end perfect ones. And 0:23:49.320 --> 0:23:50.800 we're like, if you don't get out of here with. 0:23:50.680 --> 0:23:53.439 This, with this bullshit, like take this bullshit out of 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:54.160 our faces. 0:23:54.400 --> 0:23:59.959 Yeah, but it's but I think that I am just 0:24:01.880 --> 0:24:07.120 how do I say this? There is something so special 0:24:07.200 --> 0:24:11.639 about being black in this country, as crazy as this 0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:14.439 country is, and so I think it's sort of you know, 0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:17.280