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Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with

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Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Pre recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,

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Speaker 1: I hope that you have been enjoying these conversations this

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Speaker 1: week on wokaf's Cookout, where we are having conversations with

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Speaker 1: some of our favorite guests to delve into this complicated

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Speaker 1: week of celebrating America's independence. What does it mean to

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Speaker 1: live free in a democracy that is backsliding? What does

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Speaker 1: it mean to have patriotism towards a country that has

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Speaker 1: done everything and anything that it can to ensure your

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Speaker 1: subjugation if you are black, indigenous, or a person of

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Speaker 1: color or from a marginalized community, and so on today's episode,

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Speaker 1: I am so grateful to be in conversation once again

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Speaker 1: with my friend, doctor Christina Greer, who is a political

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Speaker 1: scientist and associate professor at Fordham University here in New

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Speaker 1: York City. She is also the author of Black Ethnics

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Speaker 1: and the co host of faqn YC and host of

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Speaker 1: the Blackest Questions on the Grio. In this conversation with Christina,

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Speaker 1: and you know, if you've been listening to WOKF that

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Speaker 1: Christina joins the show. Ever so often, you know, we

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Speaker 1: talk about the complications of being a black woman in

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Speaker 1: these United States. How do we keep our sanity, let

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Speaker 1: alone have some semblance of freedom in a country that

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Speaker 1: wants to right on all of its marble buildings and

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Speaker 1: statues and plaques, use quotes and messages about justice and equity,

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Speaker 1: and we know that those things are false advertising. Because

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Speaker 1: when you just begin to slowly peel back the layers right,

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Speaker 1: or just slowly begin to open up your eyes to

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Speaker 1: the real America, you know, the the activation that is

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Speaker 1: happening behind the curtain, behind the smoke and mirrors, you

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Speaker 1: realize that this country, boy, you know, is kind of

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Speaker 1: the master at gaslighting. And you know, for those of

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Speaker 1: us who have built careers around wanting to perfect our union,

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Speaker 1: wanting to educate those to believe that they have the

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Speaker 1: power and the ability to shape the future of this country,

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Speaker 1: some days, folks are better than others. Some days feel

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Speaker 1: a lot better than others. And there are times when

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Speaker 1: we're just like, you know what, fuck it, y'all can

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Speaker 1: have this mess right, you can burn it down if

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Speaker 1: you want to, just leave me the fuck alone. And

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Speaker 1: the reality is is that Unfortunately, white Evangelical Christians, the

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Speaker 1: far right, the you know, Republican cult party, They refuse

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Speaker 1: to leave people alone. We do not live in a

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Speaker 1: live and let live society. It's live and let me

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Speaker 1: oppress you and contort you into the ideas of who

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Speaker 1: you should be, who I think you should be, and

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Speaker 1: not who you tell me that you are. And so

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Speaker 1: this conversation with my friend, doctor Christina Greer, we talk about,

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Speaker 1: you know, her work as a professor in trying to

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Speaker 1: shape the minds or open the minds and expand the

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Speaker 1: minds of the next generation of political scientists. We talk

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Speaker 1: about her ideas around freedom and liberty and equity and

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Speaker 1: how we keep our shit together when some days we

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Speaker 1: just want to walk out of our front door and

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Speaker 1: just you know, give a primal scream. I wish we

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Speaker 1: could all just decide on the time of day that

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Speaker 1: we would do that and just do it. I think

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Speaker 1: it would do us all a great deal of good.

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Speaker 1: I hope that you enjoy this conversation between myself and Christina. Folks,

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Speaker 1: you know, whenever I have the opportunity to rope in

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Speaker 1: my friend doctor Christina Greer, Political se Scientists Associate Professor

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Speaker 1: at fordom University, an author of Black Ethnics, and co

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Speaker 1: hosts of f BAC NYC, and the host of the

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Speaker 1: Blackest Questions on the Grio pod. I am overwhelmed with

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Speaker 1: joy because we get into so many conversations and Christine,

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Speaker 1: I will tell you this, a lot of people will

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Speaker 1: tweet me and be like, I love when you have

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Speaker 1: a Christina Greer on It's the best conversation. So so

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Speaker 1: welcome back to wok F. It is fourth of July

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Speaker 1: week and on the pod, we are doing our cookout

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Speaker 1: where we are bringing on our favorites and you are

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Speaker 1: definitely always at the top of that list. But we

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Speaker 1: also want to talk about and have conversations around what

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Speaker 1: does it mean to celebrate this country's independence. I have

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Speaker 1: a very complicated relationship as well as many people know.

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Speaker 1: And you know, the fourth of July, you know, it

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Speaker 1: is a bunch of flags waving and people putting out

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Speaker 1: their flags and going to old Navy and purchasing flag gear,

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Speaker 1: and that he is supposed to identify their patriotism, right,

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Speaker 1: but us, you know, black folk in particular, you know,

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Speaker 1: just marching in the streets and actually wanting this country

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Speaker 1: to live up to this creed. We are not seen

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Speaker 1: as patriots. We are seen as antagonists to America's legacy.

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Speaker 1: So in this season of America.

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Speaker 2: How are you?

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Speaker 1: How does the Fourth of July holiday land for you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, first of all, black people are the original

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Speaker 2: and true patriots of this nation. So there's that. I'm

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Speaker 2: still laughing about old Navy because I don't know how

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Speaker 2: they got a hold on Fourth of July, but that's

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Speaker 2: their thing, but they do. Yeah, it's totally their thing. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So here's the thing, Like when you rewind and you

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Speaker 2: think about the Fourth of July, it's the celebration. You know,

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Speaker 2: we basically escaped from the shackles of Britain and let

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Speaker 2: them tell it. It's like we're a bunch of like

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Speaker 2: criminal derelicts that ran across the ocean and rereak taboc.

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Speaker 2: So our origin story has never been correct, Like we've

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Speaker 2: just created these false narratives and origins stories. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the same way we talk about like Kim Jong il

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Speaker 2: and Kim Jong un just created these like fake narratives

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Speaker 2: of North Korea. So do we I mean, that's just

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Speaker 2: that's just what countries do. Sadly, and we have this

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Speaker 2: independence in the shadow of genocide and chattel slavery and

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Speaker 2: just real brutality and exclusion. And now fast forward to

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, we're supposed to stand outside in line

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Speaker 2: for fireworks and celebrate this great nation. Now that being said,

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Speaker 2: I do think that, you know, there is a lot

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Speaker 2: of potential in this country, but it's because of the

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Speaker 2: people who are most abused, who actually have invested in

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Speaker 2: this nation to try and make it into the thing

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Speaker 2: that it's supposed to be. It's far from the ideals,

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Speaker 2: but we have to be realistic to say that we

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Speaker 2: have come a very long way. I mean the fact

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Speaker 2: that the two of us are not enslaved and we're

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Speaker 2: sitting here chopping it up on a podcast. So the

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Speaker 2: issue with America is that we have never answered the

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Speaker 2: question as to like, who really gets to be a citizen.

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Speaker 2: Deep down, we're still kind of grappling with that because

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Speaker 2: you know, as I write about black ethnics, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 2: you know, black people, it's like we always get to

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Speaker 2: be American with a prefix. We don't just have to

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Speaker 2: be American, yeah, you know, and lots of other people

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Speaker 2: get to be Americans based on phenotype, and we see

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Speaker 2: a lot of people are trying their hardest and their

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Speaker 2: damned is to try and just be American without whatever

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Speaker 2: their ethnic preface prefix will be. But I think we

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Speaker 2: still have not really grappled with specifically for black people,

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Speaker 2: because there's a there's a definitive dichotomous relationship between black

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Speaker 2: people and white people, largely because black people are the

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Speaker 2: only immigrant group, migrant group that is a non voluntary immigrant.

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Speaker 2: Everyone else came here looking for something. You know, Nikki Haley,

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Speaker 2: I see you. So you know, everyone's families, you know,

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Speaker 2: chose this country for a reason because they wanted something.

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Speaker 2: They believed in the ideals. Black Americans we have a

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Speaker 2: different narrative, We have a different relationship with this country.

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Speaker 2: So when we think about our citizenship and our quest

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Speaker 2: to be included, as we fight for this country, and

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Speaker 2: we've been in every single war since the beginning of

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Speaker 2: this nation, right so as we celebrate seventeen seventy six,

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Speaker 2: you know, we're going to have this big two hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty year anniversary coming up in three years. You know,

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Speaker 2: we've fought and died and bled for this country. We've

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Speaker 2: been lynched in our uniforms in this country. You know,

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Speaker 2: after we came back. We survived atrocities abroad, only to

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Speaker 2: come back and you know, be caught up in the

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Speaker 2: hand of you know, white domestic terrorism. So on the

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Speaker 2: fourth of July, I'm reflecting on all that this country

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Speaker 2: has been, all that it could be, and to be

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Speaker 2: very honest, And this is one of my bosses told

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Speaker 2: me when I worked for the High Commissioner of the

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Speaker 2: Gambia in London many years ago, and I was like, oh, America,

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Speaker 2: and I was talking crap about America and he was like,

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Speaker 2: but it's your country, Chrissy. He's like, why do you

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Speaker 2: let them sort of make you believe that it's not

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Speaker 2: your country. He's like, you've been there longer than most people.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know your people. He's like, your people

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Speaker 2: have built X, Y and Z, your people have toiled,

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Speaker 2: your people have actually helped the country move forward, So

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Speaker 2: why would you abandon something that is rightfully yours? And

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Speaker 2: so I always remember that conversation from nineteen ninety eight,

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Speaker 2: and I really try and remember, like, yeah, this is

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Speaker 2: my country, and like my ancestors actually have contributed more

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Speaker 2: than most and sacrificed more than most. Right, so I

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Speaker 2: actually am allowed to celebrate how I feel like it.

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Speaker 2: And part of being an American without a prefix, all

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Speaker 2: with the prefix, is that I get to celebrate the

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Speaker 2: fourth of July however I see fit and however my

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Speaker 2: spirit moves me that day. And so if I feel

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Speaker 2: like going to a cookout, sure, if I feel like,

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Speaker 2: you know, hanging out with friends and seeing fireworks, sure

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Speaker 2: if I feel like reading you know, sol on ice

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Speaker 2: and sitting at home and you know, reading black literature

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Speaker 2: and not acknowledging the jolly forth other than the fact

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Speaker 2: that I can't go to the post office. That's my

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Speaker 2: prerogative too. So I think I'm just sitting in my

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Speaker 2: feelings as to where this country has gone and all

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Speaker 2: the beautiful things that it has produced, and all the

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Speaker 2: ways that it still has to live up to its ideals.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I think that that's really interesting. And what you say

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Speaker 1: with regard to what a friend of yours has said,

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Speaker 1: like it's your country too, like don't make them, you know,

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Speaker 1: make you think that it's not. And I think that

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Speaker 1: that has been the desire right of white supremacy, which

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Speaker 1: is to make it not that we are visitors, because

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Speaker 1: a visitor you welcome in, a visitor.

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Speaker 2: You no, they treat us like vampires, where it's like

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Speaker 2: we're just stuck on the porch.

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Speaker 1: Right, we have not invited you in, or you are

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Speaker 1: the stain, Right, you are the problem, You are the stain.

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Speaker 1: You are to be in the back of the house.

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Speaker 1: That's where we that's where we felt comfortable with you,

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Speaker 1: with you in the kitchen, not in the front, and

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Speaker 1: people knowing that you exist. And you know, one of

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Speaker 1: the things that I have done, and I talk about this,

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Speaker 1: uh with with my friend the wherever Mark Thompson because

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Speaker 1: he has done it on his show is reread right

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Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas is you know what to the slave is

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Speaker 1: the fourth of July And every year for the last

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Speaker 1: couple of years that I have reread that and sometimes

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Speaker 1: I've recited it with my sister on Instagram lives, I

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Speaker 1: have recited it on this show. It takes me to

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Speaker 1: a place where I realize, you know, if not for right,

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Speaker 1: if not for the enslaved, right, if not for their

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Speaker 1: forced labor, if not for their blood, if not for

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Speaker 1: their tears, if not for the ripping away of family,

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Speaker 1: if not for all of their sacrifices, where the fuck

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Speaker 1: would America have been America would never have been able

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Speaker 1: to fight off the British. America would have never have

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Speaker 1: been able to claim its independence because it would not

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Speaker 1: have had the economic capability to fucking do so. And

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Speaker 1: so I get so enraged because I feel like there

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Speaker 1: has been a entire industry that has been created to

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Speaker 1: make us believe that we do not belong, and all

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Speaker 1: we have ever done in this country post our enslavement

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Speaker 1: is be that square that is trying to fit into

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Speaker 1: this circle, right that it rejects us at every which way.

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Speaker 1: And so there is a part of me that I

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Speaker 1: remember really being like, you know, my family's Jamaican, right,

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Speaker 1: Like my family came to this country in the nineteen seventies,

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Speaker 1: Like y'all can have your fucking Fourth of July, Like

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Speaker 1: I really don't care, right, but then recognize it, but

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Speaker 1: I am American. They came to the United States, so

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Speaker 1: that right being something right, And so there is just

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Speaker 1: this conflict of I don't want to own this pile

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Speaker 1: of shit, right because it's fraudulent and its depiction of

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Speaker 1: what democracy and what patriotism is. I feel like the

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Speaker 1: Fourth of July to me is a charade, right, It

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Speaker 1: is very much a charade, and even after now the

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Speaker 1: Congress had wanted to make Juneteenth the federal holiday, while

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Speaker 1: we have twenty three states in this country that have

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Speaker 1: outlawed thought it is. It's an aggressive insult to our

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Speaker 1: intellect and to our ancestors sacrifice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but we know that like this country is one

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Speaker 2: a historic two loves the celebration with no real conversation.

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Speaker 2: And three you know, when we say American, I think

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Speaker 2: the default system is whiteness. So it is incumbent upon

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Speaker 2: us to complicate what this holiday is amongst ourselves and

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Speaker 2: then you know, share it with the wider audience. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it would be nice if white people instigated the conversation,

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Speaker 2: but when have we ever seen that? Like that doesn't happen,

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Speaker 2: so we have to sort of say, hey, problematic, here's why. Right.

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Speaker 2: And again I said this all the time to white

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Speaker 2: allies who were just like what should I be doing?

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Speaker 2: And I always say, it's like, remember when you're about

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Speaker 2: to have a party at the house or cook out

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Speaker 2: or whatever, and your mom is running around trying to

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Speaker 2: get everything together, right, you have people coming and I

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Speaker 2: love it, and it's like, what should I be doing?

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Speaker 2: And she gives you that look like, girl, if you

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Speaker 2: don't look around and start lifting some things like why

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Speaker 2: do I need to tell you to empty these trash cans? Right,

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Speaker 2: to cut these vegetables, to make these beds? Like So,

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Speaker 2: I just think that in our quest to have these

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Speaker 2: hard conversations, continuously hard conversations, right, just about police brutality,

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Speaker 2: not just about inequities in school and housing, not just

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Speaker 2: about the way that you know, black women get ignored

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Speaker 2: in all facets of politics and policy. But in this conversation,

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Speaker 2: even in this larger like, while we celebrate this seemingly

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Speaker 2: benign thing, it's like, well, why do you think X

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Speaker 2: percent of you know, your fellow countrymen think that it's

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Speaker 2: a bullshit holiday? Dot dot dot? Look around, answer some

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Speaker 2: questions for yourself. Right, read a book. We've got the interweb.

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Speaker 2: Like I tell my students all the time, I'm like, hey, y'all,

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Speaker 2: I didn't have college. I didn't have internet in the college.

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Speaker 2: What I'm like, Right, I did not have the Internet

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Speaker 2: in college.

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Speaker 1: Okay, barely I see these books behind barely had it read.

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Speaker 2: Like these are real, real live books. Right, barely had

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Speaker 2: the internet in grad school. So you won't have no

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Speaker 2: excuse to not have this information at your fingertips. But

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Speaker 2: I think you know, we sort of live in like

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Speaker 2: very different countries within the same country, and we also

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Speaker 2: subscribe to these narratives. You know, you got somebody like

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Speaker 2: ryand de Santis. It's like rind de Santis, you and

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Speaker 2: your people just got here. So you tell people leave,

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Speaker 2: It's like you just got here. So but we see

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Speaker 2: sometimes the newest newcomers are the cruelest, and they're the

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Speaker 2: ones that want to cut the latter out from from

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Speaker 2: anyone who wants to come right, you know, talking to

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Speaker 2: people who used to be undocumented and they're immigrants themselves.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm thinking about Latinos in Arizona right now,

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Speaker 2: and it's like, wow, you are really anti immigrant. Job.

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Speaker 2: Why don't you ever read like five minutes ago. So

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Speaker 2: like we're not having these complicated conversations about how all

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Speaker 2: these all these different angles of what it means to

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Speaker 2: be in America, what it means to be a citizen,

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Speaker 2: are wrapped up or should be wrapped up in conversations

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Speaker 2: that we should have on the fourth of July about

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Speaker 2: what does it mean to birth the nation from another

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Speaker 2: cruel nation? The differences they did all their other nastiness

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Speaker 2: on other people's soil, so they didn't have to look

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Speaker 2: at it at the kitchen table, whereas America was like, ooh,

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Speaker 2: let's try something new, let's do it in our own house, right,

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Speaker 2: so that I can get my wife and my kids

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Speaker 2: in on the project. The British didn't do that. They

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Speaker 2: were like, let's go to the four corners of the

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Speaker 2: earth and do horrific things. But then we can, you know,

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Speaker 2: take shower, change our clothes, come back, come back to England,

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Speaker 2: sit in front of our families and pretend that, you know,

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Speaker 2: we're civilized people. In America they were like, no, I

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Speaker 2: got to get Missan in on it. And by the

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Speaker 2: time my child's four, they fully know how to be

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Speaker 2: an enslabor right, they fully understand race and racism and

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Speaker 2: the power dynamics they're in and how they can control

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Speaker 2: a grown as black man, right as a child a

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Speaker 2: white child. So there are different ways that America adopted

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Speaker 2: British cruelty. I mean, they're just British people with soil

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Speaker 2: and changed their names the same with like Australians. You know,

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Speaker 2: it was like a whole bunch of British criminals. We

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Speaker 2: get it. So that history as to like the husk

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Speaker 2: that we come from, you know, the the nation that

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Speaker 2: birthed this nation, it's like, was highly problematic with how

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Speaker 2: they treated people in Jamaica for example, right, or people

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Speaker 2: in India, or you name said country across the Caribbean,

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Speaker 2: across you know the yeah, you name it. When you

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Speaker 2: go to the British Virgin Islands. I mean, I told you.

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Speaker 2: I was just in Saint Martin. I was like, Wow,

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Speaker 2: the French and the Dutch just came up here, couldn't

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Speaker 2: get it together, split up a whole island and it

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Speaker 2: was just like oughay like and we still run things,

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Speaker 2: still rent it. Like you can barely even get property

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Speaker 2: on the French side because it's like unless you your

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Speaker 2: grandfather ad it your sol And I was like, so

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Speaker 2: we think about all these European nations that did this

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Speaker 2: stuff and how America's emulated this horrendous behavior. The difference is, yes,

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Speaker 2: we have done it. Listen, ask people from Puerto Rico

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Speaker 2: and Guam, right, and Saint Croix how America does it.

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Speaker 2: But we also have done it on our own terra pharma.

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Speaker 2: And for me, July fourth is the time to reflect

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Speaker 2: on all the amazing things that this country has produced.

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Speaker 2: There was a great play called Ain't No Mo that

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Speaker 2: was off Broadway and then it got to Broadway. Unfortunately

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Speaker 2: it didn't do very well, but I mean you did okay,

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Speaker 2: I guess, but it ended early. But one of the

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Speaker 2: beautiful things about this play was they had to, like

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Speaker 2: when they were going to Africa, all them on an

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Speaker 2: airplane together, everybody, Barack Obama was flaningplane. They couldn't take

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Speaker 2: anything that we birthed in America. So it's like, what

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Speaker 2: do you mean. We can't take our music, we can't

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Speaker 2: take our literature, we can't take our art, Like and

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Speaker 2: you realize we've created the cultural schema of the United States, right,

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Speaker 2: so many art forms, so many forms of everything, political, thought,

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Speaker 2: whatever it may be. It's like it comes from us.

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Speaker 2: So for me to turn my back on a country

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Speaker 2: that you know, the vast majority of all the great

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Speaker 2: things come from people who are you know, I'm descendant of,

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Speaker 2: I can't. I can't turn my back on that. So

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Speaker 2: like I am kind of proud to a certain extent

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Speaker 2: to be part of this really great lineage. It just

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Speaker 2: happens to be, you know.

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Speaker 1: So fraud.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes it feels like polishing in.

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Speaker 1: Turt Yeah, and that's exactly right, Like, that's that's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: I think that all of the things that you just

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Speaker 1: stated I never really thought about in terms of what

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Speaker 1: the British Empire did. They did, you know, through manifest destiny.

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Speaker 1: They did through you know, and then they come back

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Speaker 1: as heroes every time that they return. Look what we have,

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Speaker 1: we what we are bringing to your people, and we

360
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Speaker 1: can we can tell this tall tale, this fucking lie,

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Speaker 1: not about the raping and the pillaging and the murder

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Speaker 1: and the scalping and all of these horrendous things that

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Speaker 1: you were doing, the brutalization that you were doing. You're

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Speaker 1: just coming back with the goods, and the people are like,

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Speaker 1: look at our explorers, and that's the story that they tell.

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Speaker 1: But what America did was just like, no, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: show you our brutality right in your front yard, but

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Speaker 1: then we're gonna spend two almost two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: years lying about it. To what you saw in front

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Speaker 1: of your what you saw with your own eyes. It's like,

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Speaker 1: are like what it's like that.

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Speaker 2: Old joke when you know the woman walks in and

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Speaker 2: her husband having sex with another woman, in the bed

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Speaker 2: and he's like, maybe, who you gonna believe me or

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Speaker 2: your own eyes. It's like that's what America.

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Speaker 1: Say every every time, that they're fucking up.

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Speaker 2: Me or your eye. And it's like, but here's the thing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, as we crack up laughing, I think this

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00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 2: is also the part of the beauty of it, because

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00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 2: it's like we've also created a whole new wing of humor,

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Speaker 2: like you know, Gallows humor if you will, I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, I think that there's a you know, there

383
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 2: are lots of really interesting books written about like Jewish

384
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Speaker 2: humor and fascinated with humor, and you know, I like

385
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 2: to hang out with comedians. I just think that they're

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Speaker 2: some of the smartest people on the planet when done correctly.

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00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 2: But you know, the fact that black people can find

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Speaker 2: the funny in almost anything, especially dealing in this country,

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00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,679
Speaker 2: comes from knowing who like we we are looking at

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00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 2: y'all laughing because it's like you really think that, hey,

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Speaker 2: you're pulling the wool over our eyes and right like

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Speaker 2: you believe that this country is like, oh, she's perfect.

393
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 2: It's just you all of the end perfect ones. And

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00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 2: we're like, if you don't get out of here with.

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Speaker 1: This, with this bullshit, like take this bullshit out of

396
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Speaker 1: our faces.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's but I think that I am just

398
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Speaker 2: how do I say this? There is something so special

399
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 2: about being black in this country, as crazy as this

400
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 2: country is, and so I think it's sort of you know,

401
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 2: like you have a sister, right, So it's like sometimes

402
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 2: when you look at your parents, who're like, these people

403
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 2: are crazy, how do we make it out of here?

404
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 2: Like your mom will say something, it's like, oh my gosh,

405
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 2: she is not, and we are like we survived. We're

406
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 2: in our forties. What how right? I feel like sometimes

407
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 2: that's like, collectively all like forty five million black people,

408
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 2: we're looking around like these people are lo co like wps,

409
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 2: Like what are they doing? And it's like we're all

410
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 2: in on it. And you know, I talk about this

411
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 2: in my book. It's like you win some, you lose some,

412
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Speaker 2: you know, Like I think that's kind of our attitude,

413
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 2: which is like we try our best, but we're very clear.

414
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Speaker 2: You could end up in prison for the rest of

415
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,400
Speaker 2: your life over some bullshit marijuana charge. You can also

416
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 2: end up, you know, going an ivy League institution because

417
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 2: someone saw you, you know, one time in a spelling

418
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 2: bee and here you are right, and then you go

419
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 2: on and do amazing things and you have amazing friendships

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00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 2: and you give back and all the things. So I

421
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 2: you know, I'm cautiously optimistic, I'm pragmatically optimistic. I do

422
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 2: think that as hard as the road has been for

423
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Speaker 2: black people in this country and a lot of other people,

424
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 2: but you know, I'm thinking about black people on this

425
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 2: particular holiday. As hard as the road has been, it

426
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,719
Speaker 2: has been some really beautiful passages on the road and

427
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: some really beautiful people on the road. And I try

428
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 2: and think of America more as like not polishing a

429
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 2: turd in the middle of a shit storm. But I

430
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 2: kind of feel like we're like if you think about

431
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 2: like eighteen forty nine, you know, like gold Prospectors, it's

432
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 2: like we're out here and some things in this country.

433
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 2: Some days it's like, Wow, there's some really great things

434
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 2: about people in the places in this country. You know, Listen,

435
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 2: I've driven across country and to all my students, they

436
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 2: must do that at some point in their lives. It's

437
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 2: a beautiful nation, like physically just absolutely stunning. And then

438
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 2: you know, just like the people, there are some really

439
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 2: really great people in this country who are doing some

440
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:29,439
Speaker 2: really fascinating work. And then you know, we got to

441
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 2: kind of sift through all the other nonsense, of which

442
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 2: there's plenty, sure, But I feel like I don't want

443
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 2: to only focus on the terribleness that is this country. Granted,

444
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 2: not to devalue that. I know a lot of people

445
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 2: are going through just seems like a terrible onslaught all

446
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 2: day every day. But you know, on this reflection of

447
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 2: July fourth, I really do think that there's been some

448
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 2: really great work. There's been some great coalition building. There's

449
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 2: been you know, like black immigrants troops kind of coming

450
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 2: together from different countries. There's been people who sort of

451
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 2: identifying with our struggles. You know, we've seen sort of

452
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 2: different cities, different groups coming together of different racial and

453
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 2: ethnic and class backgrounds. So I'm inspired. You know, also,

454
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 2: as your listeners know, I teach the youth of America,

455
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 2: I can't help but be inspired. These people are doing

456
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:27,239
Speaker 2: great stuff. They're curious. You know.

457
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 1: I think that what you're what you're offering here is

458
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:34,199
Speaker 1: that you know, if you only want to look at

459
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: the bad, there's plenty of bad to look at. But

460
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: if you spend some time looking for the good and

461
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: reflecting on the good, which is not going to be

462
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 1: given to you by mainstream media, which is not going

463
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: to be given to you on cable news because that

464
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: is not what sells. But like that, you it is

465
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 1: up to you, truly to look through the kaleidoscope and

466
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 1: see what you want to see about this country. I

467
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 1: think about America really as a mosaic. And why do

468
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 1: I say that, Because I'm like, this place is shattered, right,

469
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 1: you know, it is sht like every but you can

470
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: either walk over or choose to walk up with that

471
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: fucking broken glass, or you pick up some pieces and

472
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: you make something better with it, or you make something

473
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: more expansive and different every time because something breaks all

474
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: the time. And that's you know, and that's pretty much

475
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: where we are. It's breaking open people's thought and expanding

476
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: minds and just understanding is I think, is you know,

477
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 1: is truly the goal of what it is at all

478
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: of us, at least that are conscious, are trying to do.

479
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: So for me, that's that's the perspective that I look

480
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: at it, and it's you know, it's a wild place

481
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: to be. It's a wild place, particularly on these holidays,

482
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: but it is a wild country to to existence. So

483
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: final final question for you, just real quick. In three

484
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: years it will be the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary

485
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: of the founding of this nation or whatever we call it,

486
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: the independence, whatever we call it. Do you think we

487
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: will have a democracy? Then?

488
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 2: Can't call it? This PhD is a little shaky these

489
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 2: days on the political sciencetic, but in all seriousness, I

490
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 2: do think we will. It depends on how we define democracy.

491
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 2: But I do think that we're going to see some

492
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 2: real pushback in some conversations about like, so we created

493
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 2: this nation for what and for whom? Yeah, and what

494
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 2: have we done with it? And we've squandered a lot

495
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 2: of time, and a lot of folks are feeling like

496
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: we are moving back to seventeen seventy six. So yeah,

497
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 2: it's incumbent upon folks. You know, It's like, listen, black

498
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 2: women can't be wielding this sword and this shield every

499
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 2: day all day. No, I'm tired of this magic whatever

500
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: you keep calling it, black giral magic. Yeah, Like I'm

501
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: over it right to black throg rest Listen, you know

502
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 2: I believe in rest. I mean, what's so fascinating is

503
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: you know, I take vacations. So on the one hand,

504
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 2: people are like, you're always working, Christy, You've got twelve jobs,

505
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 2: which I do, right, But then when I take a

506
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,719
Speaker 2: two week vacation, it's like, oh my god, two weeks

507
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 2: what are you doing? Do you ever work? And I'm like,

508
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 2: which one is? Which one is that?

509
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: Do I always work? Do I never work? That's really fun?

510
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 2: And guess what it's like, I am unapologetically you know.

511
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 2: People are all into this like intermittent fasting these days.

512
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm intermittent working. Okay, I'm work than a rest.

513
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,719
Speaker 1: You're gonna teach me more about that when I see you.

514
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: When I see you because of that, Yeah, that is

515
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: that's the space. That's the space that I need to occupy.

516
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: My friend, doctor Christina Greer, thank you so much for

517
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: your reflections on this very complicated, layered holiday and for

518
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: making the time to join us. I'm okay, as I

519
00:30:54,560 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: always appreciate you anytime. That is it for me today,

520
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: dear friends on woke a f as always power to

521
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: the people and to all the people. Power, get woke

522
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: and stay woke as fuck.