1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Ruthie's Table four is now a book. Paul McCartney, Michael Caine, 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: Kamala Harris, David Beckham, Tina fey Elton John and many more. 3 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: It's full of stories, beautifully designed, and a celebration of 4 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: the way food connects us all. It's available now wherever 5 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: you buy your books. Ruthie's Table four brought to you 6 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: by Sky and Montclair. There was a time that I 7 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: think it was you that was had been going every 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: single day down to the harbor to try fish and 9 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: catch a fish. And every day we had this little 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: fishing rod, I think it was maybe it was true 11 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: with you, and would stand there for hours. And one 12 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: day we just thought we can't go on any longer. 13 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: So we bought a fish, a little fish in the 14 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: fishing market, and then you drove down underneath the fishing 15 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: and attached it to the fishing rod, and he pulled 16 00:00:53,840 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: it up swimming. So they hatched it to the rod 17 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: and he pulled it up. Of course, what he did 18 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 1: really cut onto is that it was a dead fish. 19 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: There are many many things I admire about abe Rogers. 20 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: He is the founder of Abe Rogers Architects, an international 21 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: practice where he breaks boundaries, creating beautiful buildings, challenging exhibitions, 22 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: and dynamic interiors. As a parent, he is patient, exuberant, 23 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: and as a stepson, well, he and I have been 24 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: side by side with many, many stories to tell. Today, 25 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about Abe as a cook, the inventive, inspiring, 26 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: and brave way he brings ingredients together, creating some of 27 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: the most delicious food I've eaten in my life. I 28 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: think I know Abe very well. Today I'm going to 29 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: know him even better and we'll share with you what 30 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: he does, what he thinks, and what he makes. What 31 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: a privilege we're going to talk an't we we have known? 32 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: I don't think i've known apart from maybe I would rather. 33 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: I don't think i've known any person I've interviewed as 34 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: long as I've known you have. 35 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 2: I think I'm one of the apart from the only 36 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 2: people that have eaten your food all their all. 37 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 3: Their their lives. 38 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: And I think that's quite a privilege. And I even 39 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 2: make your food kind of before it was this, when 40 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 2: it was we were. 41 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: Making the other day, I went up to Ruse and 42 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 1: he said, I want you to cook something that used 43 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: to cook. 44 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I was thinking about soufles is like bicycled 45 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 2: over here. 46 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, he said, he said, let's make something that you 47 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: know you used to make, and so I said, soufle 48 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: And I used to make cheese, one cheese to and 49 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: one finish, and then. 50 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 2: I remember the whole theater, then looking through the oven 51 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 2: and then rising. 52 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 1: You remember the time we were skiing, Yeah, we were skiing. 53 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: You know how everybody makes you feel like souffles. You 54 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: can't open the oven door, nobody can make a noise, 55 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: you can't play music. And we were in a shallow 56 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 1: in some apartment house and some humor, and we made 57 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: a cheese to play and a spinach shoe flay, and 58 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: the oven kind of broke or something happened, and we 59 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: took both soufles out of the oven as they were rising, 60 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: went down the hall, turned on the other oven, which 61 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: was like a very low temperature, and put the soufles 62 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:23,799 Speaker 1: in and slammed the door. And they were the best 63 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: soufles I've ever had. So is not always right, No, 64 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: exactly where the mythology of a tradition. We're going to 65 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 1: ask you to read a recipe that you've chosen. I 66 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: thought it was interesting that of all the recipes that 67 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: you've chosen, it's a dish that I absolutely adore with 68 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: a fish that I think worked so well in this recipe. 69 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: Why don't you read it first? 70 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: And why discuss going to say prior to reading this 71 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 2: is what when in the last years with that we'd 72 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 2: had these kind of emotional conversations and he was very 73 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 2: soft and he said, your super power is your fearlessness, 74 00:03:57,800 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 2: and that is you know, that's what. But actually the 75 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 2: one thing makes me fearful is reading out louds So 76 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: I walk endeavor to read, especially dyslexia. Yeah, and this 77 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 2: is very beautifully printed in LUNs writing for me. Acropats 78 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 2: is an extraordinary dish because a little bit like my mete, 79 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 2: the Spanish dish is kind of made by the fisherman 80 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: to be kind of eaten on the boat almost. And 81 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 2: so this idea of using the local seaweed and this 82 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 2: kind of strange curdle, a multiplication that comes with a 83 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 2: fish protein and the olive oil and the garlic the 84 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 2: coming together so for kind of crazy water acropats. So 85 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 2: we need three pielt garlics. We need four tablespoons of 86 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 2: chopped fresh flat parsley, two fresh or tinned plum tomatoes, 87 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 2: true crushed dried chilis. One whole red mullet. I mean, 88 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 2: I love the red mullet. I think it's exceptional. Fish 89 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 2: white wine optional, all necessary. I would say four scallops 90 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 2: of longesteed, two slices of sheap batter, bread, one lemon 91 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 2: hard in a pan large enough to hold the fish 92 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 2: in one layer. Five water with garlic, pastia, tomates, and chili. 93 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 2: Season weal and boil for five minutes. Add the mullet 94 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 2: and splash of wine and cover for six minutes. Then 95 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 2: carefully turn the fish over. Add the shell fish. Cook 96 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 2: for six more minutes. Carefully turn the fish over, cook 97 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 2: for further six minutes, seasoned, drizzle olive oil. Toast the bread, 98 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 2: rub garlic on one side, and place on a plate. 99 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 2: Add the fish, spooning over tomatoes and broth. Be on 100 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 2: a rocky boat. 101 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 1: And why did you choose this recipe? 102 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 2: Because I think it represents the simplicity of kind of 103 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 2: Italian food, of food that that you know, that that 104 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 2: you cook and bringing these ingredients together, and the idea 105 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 2: that it's cooked by the by the fishermen. 106 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: That's why it's called crazy water. Because the myth or 107 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: the reality that if you drink salt water of the sea, 108 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: you will become insane, you'll be crazy. And so the 109 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: aqua patza means pazza is you know, means crazy in Italian. 110 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: So I think I think it's a beautiful name for 111 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: a recipe and the mythology of it. As you tell 112 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: me more about aqua, parts of what do you when 113 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 1: you make it? What do you do well? 114 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 2: I mean for me, it's just coming together of these 115 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 2: different ingredients, and you have you know that you'll see 116 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: the shellfish and meeting with the red mullet, and they 117 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: can make. 118 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: It without like it without and I just like a mullet. 119 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 2: Just a mullet. Yeah, I mean clans I think you know, 120 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 2: I wouldn't nessary, but it's scallops. But I think it's 121 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 2: it's a celebration of pure ingredients, which all you're cooking 122 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 2: is a bat. 123 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 1: The other appeal of this dish for me is that 124 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: it's a whole fish. Yeah, I don't want to make 125 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: it with a filet. You would never make it with 126 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: a filet if. 127 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 2: I can avoid. I like to cook everything, whole everything 128 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 2: point I would only cook vegetables whole as well. I mean, 129 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 2: now I've kind of got more. But I quite like 130 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 2: going through these conceptual moments of kind of defining the 131 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 2: food by the. 132 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 3: Way you doing it. 133 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 2: Because then it's as it arrives and it cooks inside 134 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 2: it itself. And I try not to add water to things, 135 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 2: so I kind of like this idea of concentration and 136 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 2: trying to get the water from the vegetable, and if 137 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 2: it's not cut, then it sits inside and kind of 138 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 2: cooks in its own self. 139 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: And also when you see a fill it of sea 140 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: bass or a turbot, whatever you are very often putting 141 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: on the grill, it kind of shrinks and gets all 142 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: sort of angry and tight. 143 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 2: The juice kind of escapes, and you need the bones, and. 144 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: You need the bones. That's you know. I don't think 145 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: I ever ate a fill of a fish. When I 146 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: lived in Paris, we'd either get you know, sea bass 147 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: big enough for every everyone to share, and taking it 148 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: off the bone is part of the whole process, and. 149 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 2: Then the bone becomes the stock. And I had some 150 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 2: friends for dinner last night, did you cook? I cooked 151 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 2: a turbots, but I sput it on the wire frame 152 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 2: of the shelf and the vegetables underneath it. So the 153 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 2: kind of the enzymes drop and you do a kind 154 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 2: of salt and olive oil and vinegar massage into it 155 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 2: and releases the proteins. It's the kind of bass thing 156 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 2: and everything drops out. And I was cooking for Lynn 157 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: Harris to perfume, and it was very interesting to be 158 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 2: talking about food with someone who's just obsessed with the smell, 159 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 2: smell and the kind of whole taste and smell and 160 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 2: that inter. 161 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: I get that, you know, I always say that very 162 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: often you want to make something up because of what 163 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: it will taste like, but what it will smell like. 164 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 2: And how your house will smell when people enter the. 165 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: Ways. Yeah, sometimes you don't wantever you do one I 166 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: don't have. I don't have extraction in my house. 167 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 2: I think I learned that from you. I have. 168 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: Open window. Yeah, what are your early memories of the kitchen? 169 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 2: When I was bically him thinking about this conversation, I 170 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 2: realized that most of my early memories are about food, 171 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 2: and when I talked to that, his memories are very different. 172 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 2: I think it's very interesting early on what we take 173 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 2: from our memories and our past. So yeah, definitely. I 174 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 2: mean we were five that we'd all sit down together. 175 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 2: Chicken would kind of be devoured in minutes with such 176 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 2: a with five kids and two adults and two great danes, 177 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 2: and soon would make packed lunches for all of us 178 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 2: every morning and be at the kind of five making 179 00:08:58,280 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 2: homemade bread. I mean, it was quite in this kind 180 00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 2: of conveyor belt and we go off my little plastic 181 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 2: bags with the sandwiches and the carrots. Where they eat 182 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 2: with you most nights every night, or my bedroom is 183 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 2: next to the kitchen because I was the youngest, and 184 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 2: so I'm going to go to bed as they were cooking. 185 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: I mean, lot of people would see that I was 186 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 2: in the cupboard in the basement, but it was. But 187 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 2: it was actually a real kind of generous things that 188 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 2: kept me very close. She was always in the kitchen. 189 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 2: But I grew up, you know, with this incredible privilege 190 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 2: of these I know, kind of five four amazing cooks. 191 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 2: You know, you're you know you cooking, and we'd go 192 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 2: every week to Bell Sized Grow And there was a 193 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 2: period when Dad was supposed to cook every Tuesday. 194 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 1: Do you remember that. I, you know, Richard who really. 195 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 2: Food was important respective. 196 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: Everything was about. He would literally go to bed at 197 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: night and think what we were going to eat the 198 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 1: next day, or he would, you know, after a meal, 199 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: talk about what he you know, had eaten that lunch. 200 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: There was a conversation about food. There was this. 201 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 2: Love of very natural food. He wanted he wanted the 202 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 2: livers and the kidneys, and he wanted in fact, and 203 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 2: he wanted you know, the substance. 204 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. So going, so you had the Tuesdays whenever we 205 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: did one of the. 206 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 2: Tuesdays when he could and he couldn't cook. He didn't 207 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 2: know how to cook. He liked the idea, but he 208 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 2: you know, so I would cook with you. 209 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: So you were saying that your memories of your childhood 210 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: really centered around food. Yeah. Yeah. 211 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 2: And then of course Dada Dada who was who was 212 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,559 Speaker 2: my grandmother? I think quite inspiration had totally who kind 213 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 2: of was the first Italian cook. I mean obviously the first, 214 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 2: but was kind of And you would go to her 215 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 2: house and she would skate around with cloths attached to 216 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 2: her feet and you know, she would slowly cook these 217 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 2: carrots and she's had. 218 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: The clothes on her feet now for cooking but cleaning. Yeah, 219 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: so we should tell everyone about data who was born 220 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 1: in Trieste. 221 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 2: Early century, women who survived the wars, who kind of 222 00:10:53,720 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 2: fled Italy in thirty nine, who kind of arrived in 223 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,439 Speaker 2: England the beginning of the war at a moment kind 224 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 2: of great nationalism in a way. 225 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: And she had a very privileged childhood. So she was 226 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: brought up with I think cooks in the kitchen and 227 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: cleaners in the bedrooms, and a little private train that 228 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: took her to the top of her house. 229 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 3: And James, James Joyce. 230 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: That's always my question, who do you think Richard's mother 231 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: to speak English? And there was James Joyce who was 232 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: living in Triesta. 233 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 2: And I think when they had the flu in eighteen eighteen, 234 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,199 Speaker 2: nineteen eighteen, she didn't need the house free, you know, 235 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 2: and people would bring the through to the kind of 236 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 2: doorstep of the house. 237 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: There were two things she wanted to have in London, 238 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: many things, probably, but coming from this privileged life to 239 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: a wartime Britain was one not being able to have 240 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: a view. Because she grew up in Florence where there 241 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: were the hills and she could walk up there and 242 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: see the view of a Florence. And so she said 243 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: to me once and she used to walk around London 244 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: all day trying to find a view. And the other 245 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: one was to have the kind of food that she'd 246 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: grown up with, the trisque. Her father, even though it 247 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:13,599 Speaker 1: was wartime Britain and rationing, would send her candy chestnuts 248 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: and candied fruit. She often told me about getting these packages. 249 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: I don't know how he got them out of Italy 250 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: and to Britain, but for her having the candied fruit. 251 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: But you can imagine coming from parmesan cheese and olive 252 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: oil and anchovies and garlic to a country where there 253 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: was just a very, very different level of type of cooking. 254 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:35,959 Speaker 2: But she had this amazing house that Dad had designed 255 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 2: her as kind of super experimental house, his first kind 256 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 2: of real vision of the future of his eye. 257 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 3: That wasn't until sixty eight, sixty eight. 258 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, this kind of yellow box where she would cook 259 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 2: her childhood food and with this incredible generosity and precision 260 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 2: in how she would cook. And for me, I always 261 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 2: wouldly remember the carrots, and the carrots would take four 262 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 2: hours and she would kind of turn them over each 263 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 2: one individual. She almost knew them by name slice by 264 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:02,599 Speaker 2: the end of the kind of carrot cooking, and he 265 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 2: would have this orange all of oil that had been 266 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,559 Speaker 2: kind of touched by this very very slow cooking. 267 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: Italian vegetables are never undercooked. Everything in Italy is, you know, 268 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,319 Speaker 1: the prety rules. Even though yeah you can have raw 269 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: you do. But I think that the whole the difference 270 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: between you know, a blanched vegetable and French cooking or 271 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: you know, other cooking, and then the Italians which just 272 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: cooked them for a very long time, they do it 273 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: because of the olive oil. I think they get away 274 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: with it. So tell me more about the influences in 275 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: your cooking. 276 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 2: And then so you know, I grew up, you know, 277 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 2: with Rose and her kids, we were all very much that. 278 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: Would be Rose Grades, my co founder of the River. 279 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 2: Capitol was you know who moved to Florence in when 280 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 2: I was like fourteen, twelve thirteen, and we would go 281 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 2: out there and all that they would do there was 282 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 2: cook and she kind of demanded everybody in the house 283 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 2: to be cooking. I don't know how you could make 284 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 2: it too much. I saur so collaborative, and she always 285 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 2: wanted to push and like you were saying in my introduction, 286 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 2: she always really wanted to push the baund and she 287 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 2: was going to use chili. She wants to make you 288 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 2: cry from the heat, you know. She kind of she 289 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 2: was she was experimental, not when she was hit in 290 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 2: those kind of periods and interesting things, so bohemian in 291 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 2: a way. Kind of going there as a teenager was 292 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 2: like anything could happen, and food was the absolute glue 293 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 2: that operated around that. 294 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: And she was taught to cook by daughter. She always 295 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: said that. You know, there were about five friends of 296 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: Richard who lived in South London, Wimbledon, she that area, 297 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: and they were friends of Richard, and then what they 298 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: really loved was being taught by Richard's mother daughter, your grandmother, 299 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: how to cook. And so there was and actually if 300 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: you went to Rose's house or sus or you know, 301 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: Georgie Walton's house or Wendy Foster's, there was you could 302 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: tell that they'd been taught by Dadda. There was a consistency. 303 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 2: Because her food was about approach to exactly me dishes. 304 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 2: But the way that you learned you could apply it 305 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 2: to anything. As you say, you talk about the vegetables, 306 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 2: or we talk about it, the salad, the ice creams, 307 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 2: you know, which extortedly we're all still trying to recreate 308 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 2: many years later, or the Christmas cake that you make 309 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 2: every year. But in a way, the really interesting thing 310 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 2: for me is this is the kind of creation is 311 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 2: quite humble food that you make so exquisitely. And something 312 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 2: I find fascinating in your cooking is the more noble 313 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 2: your guests, the more humble the food that you serve them. 314 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 2: So you have the American Ambassador for lunch and you 315 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 2: give them which is, you know, kind of the peasants food, 316 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 2: but you make it so perfectly, you know, I think, 317 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 2: and it changes all the time, whether you're using parmesan 318 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 2: or you're not using parmesan, that if tomates you're using 319 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 2: the time of years, but it's always, you know, it's 320 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 2: it's yeah. Eva Drittna says in design that three materials 321 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 2: make a palette, and I think, you know, that's quite 322 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 2: true in a lot of these dishes. I just ate 323 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 2: the targa with tomatoes outside, and that's two ingredients. Maybe 324 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 2: we add salt three, but it's just it's this kind 325 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 2: of poetry in your in your mouth, the kind of 326 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 2: fish to the field, which is fabulous. 327 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: And also when you have few ingredients, if you just 328 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: have two ingredients. They'd better be good. There's no masking them, 329 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: you know that. Butka has to be great a certain way. 330 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 3: A ribbon, Yeah, you like the ribbon. 331 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: I quite like it greater. 332 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 3: We'll go have a comparison. 333 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 2: Okay. 334 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: So you had Sue, you had you had me, you 335 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: had daughter, you had Cheer and then your cousin she's 336 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: married to the Cheerman. 337 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 2: Was married to Richard's first cousin. And she was this 338 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 2: kind of extraordinary, short, completely energetic cook who would spend 339 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 2: no money, but she would barter with the local farmers 340 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 2: and she would drive off in the morning for forty 341 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 2: minutes to get this very fresh paccarino they just had 342 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 2: just kind of been been set and she would drive 343 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 2: back across and you would have that, and she'd be 344 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 2: so excited to bring you this and this and this bread. 345 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 2: And she would have huge fights with the other chefs 346 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 2: in Florence because their food was being too comp lo 347 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 2: caterd and it well, you know, it was always trying 348 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 2: to be there was a real activist. I remember this 349 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 2: meal where she had given the farmers free ducks, and 350 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 2: she'd given them the and she specified their diet. 351 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: These three ducks, she gave them as us to be. 352 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 2: Fair, and then for six months they fed them and 353 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 2: grew them, and then she came and picked them up 354 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 2: and she did this whole meal devoted to the duck. 355 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,120 Speaker 2: So you start with duck soup, then you have duck bravioli, 356 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 2: then you have rosed duck. So how you can take 357 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 2: one animal and it influenced the whole meal. And I 358 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 2: kind of love that linear story that starts to be 359 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 2: told and how we can use, you know, food to 360 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 2: really tell stories. And it almost has kind of conceptual 361 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 2: art in some ways that he's sow in these other narratives. 362 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: So there are five women in the sense that you 363 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: grew up with is you know the importance and no 364 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 1: wonder your memory is so strong a food. You know 365 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: that you had these very different views in the way 366 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: people cook, but a kind of quality and also a 367 00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: sense of that food was a way of bringing a 368 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 1: we want together. Do you remember going to restaurants? Yeah? 369 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 2: I remember going to Chinese, going to mister choosing to 370 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 2: go to Chinese restaurants, Pizza Express, Yeah, a lot of 371 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 2: that definitely with you and Richard are going to restaurants 372 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 2: in Paris. Yeah, I also remember those holids days where 373 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 2: we would live in a boat house and you would 374 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 2: cook you know, sardine. I mean it was a very 375 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 2: it was. It was not a lavish exist. 376 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: That was of Coudie, wasn't it. We had the keys 377 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: to the house, we had a map to take us 378 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: to the house. We had three children, I was pregnant, 379 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: it was. And we stayed there for three weeks and 380 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: we never found the house where. 381 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 2: The houses never have found the house. 382 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: We stayed in this room which we thought we could 383 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: go to be one night and ended up being sort 384 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: of three weeks. But I think we did eat. You know, 385 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: we ate from the sea. We ate, and so I 386 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,120 Speaker 1: think that probably part of your childhood and growing up. 387 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 2: I mean, which you couldn't cook, but he would gather. 388 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 2: We'd go to the sea urchins, we would get brickly pears, 389 00:18:58,640 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 2: we'd be covered in splinters. 390 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a time that I think it was 391 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: you that was had been going every single day down 392 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 1: to the harbor to try and fish and catch a fish. 393 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: And every day we had this little fishing rod. I 394 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: think it was maybe it was Rue you and would 395 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: stand there for hours and one day we just thought 396 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 1: we can't go on any longer. So we bought a fish, 397 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: a little fish in the fishing market, and then drove 398 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: down underneath the fishing and attached it to the fishing 399 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: rod and. 400 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 3: He pulled it up. 401 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 2: What's doing. 402 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: Swimming? So they attached it to the to the rod 403 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: and he pulled it up. Of course, what he did 404 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: really cut onto was that it was a dead fish, 405 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: and so then he was so. 406 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 3: Ses it was this big. It gut it and we brought. 407 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: It back, the fish back to the house, and then 408 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: by that time was so attached to it he wouldn't 409 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 1: let us cook it, and so he slept with. 410 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 2: It nights and we were all sleeping in one room. 411 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 2: So it started to really really smell and it dried 412 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,360 Speaker 2: leave fish, and we had to persuade him to let 413 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 2: the fish go. And he's going to get back to 414 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 2: his mom. He wasn't well. His mom was going to 415 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 2: make him better. Maybe had to get the hospital we had, 416 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 2: and we launched it back into the sea, and this 417 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:13,679 Speaker 2: Viga water is completely stiff. 418 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: I don't think you get away with that now, because 419 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: the whole idea of honesty and treating children as when 420 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: you go to a city and you think, what is 421 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 1: the culture of food, going to tell me about the 422 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: culture of the country. 423 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 3: The city, the market. 424 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: So what do you what do you look for? 425 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 2: And I look, I love the mark. We want to look. 426 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 2: But the locals are eating what the locals are doing, 427 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 2: And I think for me, Thailand is fascinating. You have 428 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 2: some of the best thing I've had in my life. 429 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,679 Speaker 2: You have these fish which are barbecued, but in this 430 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 2: kind of salt and flower. You have fish that you 431 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 2: cannot recognize. I might get obsessed with fish particularly, they're 432 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 2: such strange creatures and we don't see them most of 433 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 2: the time because they're under the water. But then you 434 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 2: have you know, you have seventy seven different types of mangos. 435 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 2: If we don't about a mango as if it's the 436 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 2: one thing, or in the same way, I guess with apples, 437 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 2: you have all these different rice is you have. You know, 438 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 2: that's great kind of uh pioneers. We're trying to bring 439 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 2: back all the heritage growing that has kind of been 440 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 2: lost along along the way. And you know, when I 441 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 2: work in Thailand, we have you know, I eat it 442 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 2: in the canteen in the morning, and you eat this, 443 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 2: you know, it's all blood and guts because it's incredibly inexpensive, 444 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 2: but the taste is fantastic. And if you're getting up 445 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 2: at six in the morning to spend all day on 446 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 2: site working, you want this kind of high protein, this 447 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,360 Speaker 2: high iron, this high kind of toxing thing. And it's it's, it's, 448 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 2: it's it's superb. 449 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: Your work is taken you to Japan, Thailand. 450 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 2: In Thailand we work with Wonder Fru, which is a 451 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 2: big festival and that has this they have it has 452 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 2: an amazing food culture inside it and the food culture 453 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 2: for the kind of workers which I find really interesting. 454 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:44,719 Speaker 2: And how we treat our workers is so bolled. At 455 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,360 Speaker 2: the canteen, you know, the Sophie around the canteen here, 456 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 2: which was which was fantastic. You started this as a 457 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 2: canteen itself at the beginning, which is really amazing and 458 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:57,400 Speaker 2: such some kind of privileged the office team here, who's 459 00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 2: the best canteen in London? 460 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, judge, judge. You judge a society by the way 461 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: it feeds its Parker poor, the way they feeds hospitals. 462 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: And you've done a lot of work in hospitals, you know, 463 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: this is this brings back the immersion of you know, architecture, design, food, cooking. 464 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 2: Serving sociologists I think as designers, and I think you know, 465 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 2: the Dad was very much a kind of sociologists in 466 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 2: his way. His architecture, his cities were for humans. They 467 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 2: were the manifestation was was a building or a street, 468 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 2: but it was really coming from how can we improve 469 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 2: people's lives as as as the human and I think 470 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 2: that's what we're you know, and food is part of 471 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 2: that and which was really interesting trying to put the 472 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 2: restaurants in the street and how that would ignite and 473 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 2: bring people into the street and how you know Sparcelonia 474 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:44,880 Speaker 2: did it better than London. What we could learn from 475 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 2: that and transforming into that. 476 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 1: Tell us about your work with hospitals. 477 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 2: I mean, I think, you know, having designed a lot 478 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 2: of very high end fashion shops and very high culture 479 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 2: museums and restaurants, et cetera. You know, we started working 480 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 2: in Maggie's designed the Maggie Center. Everyone with mag Maggie 481 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 2: is a cancer center which sits outside the hospitals, and 482 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,880 Speaker 2: it's really designed for the patients to energize them. If 483 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 2: the hospital makes them impotent, Maggie's empowers them. And it's 484 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 2: you know, they're extraordinary architectural buildings that are designed around 485 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 2: the needs of the human. So it's very important about 486 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 2: the texture. If you have had chemotherapy, then you're very 487 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 2: affected by cold materials, so we tried everything you touch 488 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 2: is made of wood, Everything is handmade. It's really about 489 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 2: the psychadian rhythm, how light gets in the space, smoothing 490 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 2: off corners, so you really it's like it's a form 491 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 2: of church in a way. It becomes this anchor. You 492 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 2: walk out of the hospital in this car parck and 493 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 2: you come to this oasis. You know, we work for 494 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 2: an amazing landscape garden and Peter Udorff, who designed the 495 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 2: high Line, who created this incredible god. So you totally 496 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 2: forget one that you have cancer or not. You forget 497 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 2: you have cancer, but you forget the trauma that you're 498 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 2: in and you give you a moment and you really 499 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 2: see people in this space laughing, and it's not just 500 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 2: we're incredible architect We are good, but it's because the 501 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 2: brief is amazing and the whole network is amazing, and 502 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 2: the staff is amazing, and the architecture becomes part of 503 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 2: that support system. So we developed a theory which is 504 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 2: the third care, which is if the doctor and the 505 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 2: nurses the primary, the family and the friends the secondary, 506 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 2: how the building can really care for you. And part 507 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,400 Speaker 2: of that kit goes into food. So Maggie's is designed 508 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 2: around this centralized kitchen where people come and cook, and 509 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 2: we'll come and cook at tomatoes, sauce. And when Maggie's finished, 510 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 2: they invited us to the donor's dinner. Maggie's is completely 511 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 2: paid for by donors fundraising. There's no government money, and 512 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 2: we felt very indebted to these people. They'd give us 513 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 2: this amazing opportunity to do this amazing thing. We created 514 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 2: this building, which took eight years, in many conversations with 515 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 2: the patients, the users, with the staff. So we said 516 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,360 Speaker 2: we'd only come to the meal if we could cook it. 517 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 2: So we set up this meal. Our building is seven 518 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 2: shades of red, so we propose to do seven courses 519 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 2: of red foods with seven different red wines. And then 520 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 2: we had all these very generous donors there who would 521 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 2: come for kind of half an hour, and then they 522 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 2: stayed for four hours and actually getting in telling their 523 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 2: drivers to hold on and getting quite drunk. And this 524 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 2: whole thing became this really convirial experience, and it is 525 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 2: that power of food, you know, which goes back to 526 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 2: you serving humble food to noble to noble guests, that 527 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 2: brings people together and sets you at edge. And I 528 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 2: think there's a generosity in your cooking, which for me 529 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 2: I've really learned a lot about, which is, you know, 530 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 2: making everybody feel welcome around that table, to you know, 531 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 2: to joy in this in this generosity. 532 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 1: So the thing between food and design, food and architecture, 533 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: food the people, because you have a system in your office, 534 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: isn't it too where everybody takes a turn to cook? 535 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, or more. Now I find myself cooking because I 536 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,679 Speaker 2: find that they're you know, they're drawing, I'm sketching, and 537 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 2: I think as a kind of a love back to them, 538 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 2: it's nice for me to cook. And I will cook 539 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 2: and dictate letters at the same time, be dyslexic. Dictating 540 00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 2: is a much faster way of getting a letter out. 541 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 2: You can do that kind of multi dimensional thing. 542 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: We've designed schools. As you were saying, Maggus centers, have 543 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: you a kind of interstinct of a feeling about restaurants, We. 544 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 2: Should start by saying, I think your restaurant is the 545 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 2: most beautiful restaurant in the world. And I have spent 546 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,360 Speaker 2: a bit of time with Dad and kind of designing 547 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 2: and helping you have your life you are, and I 548 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 2: think Dad's clarity of vision on that, you know, this 549 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 2: notion of the reflection, the open kitchen, and the way 550 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 2: that it's scaled up over the years, and yet the 551 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,880 Speaker 2: absolute DNA has never changed, and I find that really fascinating. 552 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 2: We might adding a few extra objects, but you've gone 553 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 2: from forty covers to hundred and twenty covers, you know, 554 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 2: I think, I mean, I had the great privilege to 555 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 2: work with Heston on a few projects, and we did 556 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 2: the Little Chef, transforming the kind of most grotty foodery 557 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 2: into this kind of super cool fast restaurant. We'd go 558 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 2: to the toilet and the toilet was saying to you 559 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 2: about eating food, and we were converting people that would 560 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 2: go to use toilet and not eat in the restaurants. 561 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 2: And then we designed the fact up for Heston, and 562 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 2: you know, in designing that that's fascinating because we took 563 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 2: this very high end restaurant and we lost covers. We 564 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,199 Speaker 2: went from forty two to forty covers, and we you know, 565 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 2: I had staff that would go there and just stand 566 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 2: in the room and just watch the different services going on. 567 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 2: Because it's such a precise thing and each guest is 568 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 2: going to be there for four hours, we said there 569 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 2: should be no art to the artist, the food. We 570 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 2: need you focusing on the table. We made sure we 571 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 2: had perfect access between the kitchen for their staff to perform, 572 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 2: and then we made this chair. And this chair needed 573 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,640 Speaker 2: to support you for four hours of dining and four 574 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 2: hours you need to keep your dive from open, so 575 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 2: you're going to eat thirteen courses. And this chair also 576 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 2: had to work for different sized people. So Yosky in 577 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 2: my office is Japanese and tiny, and the designer we 578 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 2: were working with is kind of very very large and stuck, 579 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 2: so we would test the chair on them, and it 580 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 2: was really about this kind of aductive design, you know, 581 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 2: it is all about the meal. We had this light 582 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 2: that would changed through from warm to cold and gover 583 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 2: a whole spectrum. So as we went through the twenty 584 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 2: four hour cycle in the fact ups thirteen courses, the 585 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,199 Speaker 2: kind of light would change and focus on it, and 586 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 2: it was just about pulling the people together and the chairs, 587 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 2: you know, would sit there and you know differently when 588 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 2: we designed Pizza Express again, we'd spent three four days 589 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 2: working as pizzolas there and kind of looking at how 590 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 2: the system worked, and we really bought the chef into 591 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 2: the center of the space. And one of my proudest 592 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 2: things that we got him at ten percent pay rise, 593 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 2: because now the pizzola is not a guy at the 594 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 2: back of the rest was. He was much more a 595 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 2: performer and he needs to be more proud. And we 596 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 2: already dealt with the acoustics and the complexibility of the space. 597 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 2: We made it brighter and the whole transformation between you know, 598 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 2: bright daylight and coming cozy at night, you know, And 599 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 2: we we created these little boosts so you could have 600 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 2: your own party inside. And I know you know, I 601 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 2: love that you never play music, but people would go there. 602 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 2: They could have their own party on these boosts. Plus 603 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 2: I remember that I pod in and the next door 604 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 2: person wouldn't hear. Acoustics for me are really interesting how 605 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 2: we can play with acoustics with Kylo, with texture. We 606 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 2: want the murmur, yeah, maybe the murmur is too loud. 607 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 2: Want we don't want silence. 608 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: Did you ever think of doing one or the other? 609 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: You know that well, obviously would be a designer, an 610 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: architecture and cook. But did you ever think that actually, 611 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: maybe this would be something you'd want to do all 612 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: the time. 613 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 2: And I think as a passion it's quite nice a 614 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 2: lot to commercialize it. And I have to say, when 615 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 2: I've done kind of restaurant projects, I haven't I find 616 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,239 Speaker 2: the transactional part complicated. I find it because I love 617 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 2: the kind of whole generosity. I love doing this, designing 618 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 2: these projects, and at the end of them saying to me, well, 619 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 2: you you know, we did a gallery in Lisbon. At 620 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 2: the end of it, and he asked us to to 621 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 2: do the opening of his of his his gallery, and 622 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 2: he's had like sixty people in a square. Sixty became seventy, 623 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 2: seventy became one hundred and fifty. So I say, okay, 624 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 2: well then you need to give me some labor that 625 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 2: I had his you know, his wife, SARU's an amazing 626 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 2: art historian, a brilliant glass artist and a steel artist. 627 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 2: And then my scientist friend and the five of us cooked, 628 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 2: and the scientist friend Ash who works with the mind, 629 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 2: and he's a neuro scientist and a neurologist, and he's 630 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 2: very precise, so he does the meringue. The artists are 631 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 2: very labor focused, so they can cut, cut, cut Chul 632 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 2: made mayonnaise with sixty eggs done by hand, not a 633 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 2: single one curd, you know, sixty eggs, sixty yolks of stirring. 634 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 2: And the menu was, you know, we started with a sparagust. 635 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 2: We wanted people to when they peed after the meal 636 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 2: to remember the the whole idea, the idea of the sparagust. 637 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 2: We then made this kind of very black stew of 638 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 2: cuttle fish with a little bit of rice in a 639 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 2: kind of Spanish style. And so you had these kind 640 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 2: of these very smart artists from Adagoo, which is the 641 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 2: gallery eating and they will get black drops on their 642 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 2: shirts and they're kind of the black and the white 643 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 2: and this, you know, and they're black lips that you get. 644 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 2: And then we did the kind of meringue and fruit 645 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 2: scenario which you're kind of performed and came with a 646 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 2: big knife and crashed. So, yeah, is that for me 647 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 2: more than comparing it to actors. It's kind of art 648 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 2: is that, you know, and it's it's like the design, 649 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 2: it's it's that same. But I think with food we 650 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 2: can we can handle everything. We can go to the supplier, 651 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 2: we can go to the to the you know, to 652 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 2: the kitchen. We can control everything. We're designed. We're sending 653 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 2: out drawings and we have to control everything, but we're 654 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 2: controlling it in a more remote way. It's less instinctive 655 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 2: in your. 656 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: Work of art. When you're designing Last Richard's buildings, Last, 657 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: do you feel that the impermanence of all that time 658 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: and all that you do to cook would make you 659 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: want to keep doing things that do last? 660 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 2: I love the emphemeral elements of design, and when we 661 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 2: do the festival we design, you know, we spend all 662 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 2: year kind of designing. It lasts for four days, and 663 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 2: the key to it is it kind of evaporates because 664 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 2: we don't want to lead chunks of steel knocking around. 665 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 2: We want to create structures which kind of the term 666 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 2: might's come along and they eat them and it disappears 667 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 2: and they we're talking about sustainability, which is such an 668 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 2: important part of cooking and our designing and our world 669 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 2: and our future, you know, Sodiope, Dad, In certain ways 670 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 2: we need to look about kind of reversible structures. So 671 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 2: I really enjoy the ephemeral nature of architecture. You know, 672 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 2: I really don't believe necessarily in permanence at the moment. 673 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, permits is such a big word. 674 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 2: I think we need to design with cathedral thinking. We 675 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 2: need to be designing long into the future. But we 676 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 2: need to be aware of our you know, of things 677 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 2: needing to disappear at certain points, and want you know, 678 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 2: how what is the future of this material? You know, concrete, 679 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 2: plaster bore, they never go anywhere they did. The world 680 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 2: ends up just full of old sheets of NDF and 681 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 2: plaster board and concrete. So we need to work with 682 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 2: the more sensitive materials that when it's life, you know, 683 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 2: like Stuco in Mexico or in America, we have to 684 00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 2: keep it up, keep it continually. As soon as we 685 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 2: stop up keeping it, it returns to the earth. And 686 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 2: I really love that kind of that metaphor. 687 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 1: And what about when you had children? Did that change 688 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: some of your ideas of how you wanted to communicate 689 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: with your children through food? 690 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 2: And when I had Jay, it was covid and she 691 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 2: was like three, and I would sit on the floor 692 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 2: and cook with her, and she liked to eat everything, 693 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 2: you know, And now she eat lots of things she 694 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 2: won't eat, but she still really cooks with me, and 695 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 2: we would we'd make pasta with her. I would get 696 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 2: her to separate an egg and make a mayonnaise. She 697 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 2: can do that and stir around and kind of emulsify. 698 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 2: And I think there's something really enabling and empowering and 699 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 2: going back to the kind of this thing of getting 700 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 2: or found me to cook together, because as a kids, 701 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 2: you want a purpose, you want a job, and to 702 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 2: suddenly be responsible for cutting the eels or cutting the 703 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 2: counts or whatever it is, it makes you feel part 704 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 2: of this performance if you're going to go back to 705 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 2: the part of this creation of art. And I think 706 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 2: you know, I'm not the easiest of cooks, but I 707 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 2: love cooking with my kids. Now, Ella Lula, we'll go 708 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 2: to call More for two weeks and we'll do tell 709 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 2: us about that book. I mean, we'll wake up in 710 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 2: the morning and talk about what we're going to eat, 711 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 2: and we'll spend the day getting the food and driving around, 712 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 2: going off in the boat, barbecuing. It's something it will 713 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,400 Speaker 2: make things as difficult as possible. And I think I 714 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 2: also learned that from ros Why make it easy when 715 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 2: you can make it more difficult because you know, it's 716 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 2: not about shortcutting corners, it's about you know, really devoting 717 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 2: the time. And I think that's also true of design. 718 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 2: And if a design I really believe that we need 719 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 2: to design more and build less. We need to think more, 720 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 2: we need to kind of go through the process of 721 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,439 Speaker 2: the intellectual process of what it is that we're doing 722 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 2: and how we're going to do it. And it's that 723 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 2: kind of labor that I think is great results, be 724 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 2: it in food or in design. 725 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 1: We go to food for different different reasons. But if 726 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 1: you did need and as your stepmother, I hope you 727 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,320 Speaker 1: don't need it very often. If you think about the 728 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: kind of food that if you need comfort, what in 729 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 1: all your life of food, of your memories or what 730 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: you're doing now, is there a food that you would 731 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: go to for comfort? 732 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 2: I mean, I think a piece of toast cold with 733 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 2: butter so it's concealed and cantabrin anchovies on top. You know, 734 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 2: you had this crunch and you have this salt and 735 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 2: you have the softness of the butter, and there's a 736 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 2: chemistry between that which I find phenomenon. 737 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:25,359 Speaker 3: Should go have some? Yeah, thank you? Verus Ruthie's Table 738 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 3: four was produced by Alex Bell, Robbie Hamilton, and Zad Rogers, 739 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 3: with Andrew Sang and Bella Selina. This has been an 740 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 3: atomized production for iHeartMedia.