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Speaker 1: You're listening to the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast,

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Speaker 1: a paranormal podcast network where we offer you podcasts of

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Speaker 1: the supernatural and the unexplained. Getting ready now for Shades

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Speaker 1: of the Afterlife with Sandra Schamplain. Welcome to our podcast.

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Speaker 1: Please be aware of the thoughts and opinions expressed by

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Speaker 1: the host are their thoughts and opinions only and do

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Speaker 1: not reflect those of I Heart Media, I Heart Radio,

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Speaker 1: Coast to Coast, am employees of Premier Networks, or their

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Speaker 1: sponsors and associates. We would like to encourage you to

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Speaker 1: do your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm Sandra Schamplain. For almost twenty five years, I've been

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Speaker 1: on a journey to the existence of life after death.

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Speaker 1: On each episode, will discuss the reasons we now know

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Speaker 1: that our loved ones have survived physical death and so

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Speaker 1: will we. Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. You know

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Speaker 1: the expression if things seem too good to be true,

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Speaker 1: they probably are. Well, Today, I want to talk to

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Speaker 1: you about physical mediumship and hear some words from Dr

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Speaker 1: Jan vanders Andy, who's a physicist, professor and Wall Street

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Speaker 1: analyst for over thirty years. He has described in detail

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Speaker 1: evidence for life after death in his own book Life

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Speaker 1: After Death. Some of the best evidence he has experienced

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Speaker 1: extraordinary phenomena. Now I know in the past I have

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Speaker 1: told you about Sir Arthur Conan Doyle who wrote Sherlock

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Speaker 1: Holmes and he gave up Sherlock Holmes when he realized

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Speaker 1: the reality of physical mediumship. These are people becoming real

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Speaker 1: again through a substance called ectoplasm. Now, if you're new

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Speaker 1: to this show, you might have the hairs on the

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Speaker 1: back of your head standing up, like, what am I

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Speaker 1: listening to right now? This seems a little bit crazy.

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Speaker 1: And I have to tell you, in my twenty five

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Speaker 1: years of investigating, this was the last area and I

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Speaker 1: was kind of afraid to explore it because I really

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Speaker 1: thought it sounds crazy, absolutely crazy. And it wasn't until

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Speaker 1: I had my own experiences, which I haven't told you

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Speaker 1: about just yet. But having my experiences has totally transformed

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Speaker 1: my whole view of reality and even talking about those

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Speaker 1: terms seances and ectoplasm. There's a new Ghostbusters movie coming

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Speaker 1: out soon, and you know that green, slimy stuff they

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Speaker 1: called ectoplasm. Well, Dan Ackroyd, who wrote the movie Ghostbusters

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Speaker 1: and star in It. Comes from a long line of spiritualists,

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Speaker 1: and after his great grandfather died, Dan's own dad found

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Speaker 1: a chest filled with journals about all the sciences that

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Speaker 1: were had, all the doctors and scientists who had attended them,

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Speaker 1: and the people that would become real again in the darkness.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's a good story to listen to

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Speaker 1: and hearing from this physicist, I think it is just

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Speaker 1: what we need today. So Jan, welcome. It's a pleasure

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Speaker 1: to be your sander, and thank you for inviting me. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's our pleasure. Where are you coming to us today?

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Speaker 1: From Jan, I'm based outside of Los Angeles, where I've

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Speaker 1: lived for thirty five years now. Very nice, But my

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Speaker 1: experience has started back in the nine seventies, back in

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Speaker 1: South Africa, and I'll go and talk to you about that,

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Speaker 1: Indie Pail. Yeah, I'll have you to just start sharing

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Speaker 1: your story because it's a different kind of take on mediumship.

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Speaker 1: Let me first quickly give a little definitions for your listeners.

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Speaker 1: When we talk about mediums or psychics. There are two

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Speaker 1: different types of psychics or two different types of mediums.

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Speaker 1: Two simple ones are called mental mediums. These are also

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Speaker 1: called channel ers, and these people act as an intermediary

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Speaker 1: between the spirit world and a physical world, and they

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Speaker 1: will give messages. Nowadays, very few of them going to

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Speaker 1: trans Most of them are wide awake and they will

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Speaker 1: tell you I hear this, or I hear that, or

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Speaker 1: I see this. You can watch TV. You can watch

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Speaker 1: see the Long Island medium James from Prague and many

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Speaker 1: others who perform on TV. You can see it. These

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Speaker 1: are called mental mediums. They are very common. There are

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Speaker 1: lots of them, and I've sat with many, many of them,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure as you have to, Sandra, and they

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Speaker 1: either go from very poor too very good. None of

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Speaker 1: them are a hundred percent, but some of them are

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Speaker 1: good and they give very good messages, and I'll mention

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Speaker 1: some later. Then there are the types of mediums, and

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Speaker 1: these are called physical mediums, and these are very rare.

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Speaker 1: These mediums produce what they called physical phenomena. And that

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Speaker 1: is what I'm going to be talking to you about today.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna say to me, jan we don't believe them.

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Speaker 1: But i am going to tell you what I've experienced myself,

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Speaker 1: what I've read, and the people I've spoken to when

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Speaker 1: I've spoken and met many many mediums, and I was

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Speaker 1: actually just focus Sandra about some of the ones that

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Speaker 1: she knows are many of the ones that I've met.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about these phenomena. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to describe, describe them to you and hopefully afterwards you'll say, hey,

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Speaker 1: there might be something to it. And Jan just interrupted

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Speaker 1: a quick second, if you could just I know, I

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Speaker 1: read it in your bio at the beginning, just a

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Speaker 1: little background is what your career has been, because it

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Speaker 1: just it helps to know that you're a reputable guy

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Speaker 1: and a very smart man as well. But what career

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Speaker 1: filled were you in. I am a physicist by training.

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Speaker 1: I have a PhD in physics, and I started I

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Speaker 1: was a graduated from Sophomore College and I graduated from Cornell,

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Speaker 1: who I got my master's even and then I went

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Speaker 1: to South Africa where I did my PhD on diamonds.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's a natural place to go to you

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Speaker 1: on the physical properties of diamonds. And that's where I

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Speaker 1: met my wife, and I met her and after three

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Speaker 1: months we were married and actually, believe it or not,

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Speaker 1: we were married for forty five years. And if she

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Speaker 1: passed away last year she went to the spirit world.

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Speaker 1: When I met her, we were both very interested in

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Speaker 1: is there something to life? I mean we were younger

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Speaker 1: in early twenties. Is there something more to life? What

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Speaker 1: happens when we die? And for five year old you

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Speaker 1: know normally you got partying, drinking and doing those things. No,

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Speaker 1: we weren't. What we did a little bit of that,

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Speaker 1: but we were also interested in what happens to you

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Speaker 1: when you die? Is there something there? So what did

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Speaker 1: we end up doing. We ended up going to some

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Speaker 1: of the spiritualist churches in Jhannisburg. This is in South Africa.

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Speaker 1: It's o very British there and in like I'm written,

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Speaker 1: they have lots of spiritualist churches. For a Sunday there's

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Speaker 1: a medium does mental mediumship and he gives messages. So

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Speaker 1: we went to some of those, most of a terrible,

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Speaker 1: terrible messages, nothing really true. But we met some other

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Speaker 1: younger people and we decided to form a developmental circle.

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Speaker 1: So my wife and I and about five other people

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Speaker 1: in their twenties who were also interested in the subject,

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Speaker 1: we sat. We met once a week in a developmental circle.

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Speaker 1: Will we sit and we hope that one of these

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Speaker 1: sitters will develop into a medium. And one of them

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Speaker 1: sort of did trance where trans medium is where he

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Speaker 1: sort of goes into sleep and then somebody speaks through him.

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Speaker 1: So one of the sitters became a trans medium, and

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Speaker 1: this was after several months of sitting. But he was

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Speaker 1: so so and some of the messages were, Okay, you're

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Speaker 1: talking about a sitting in a circle, could you just

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Speaker 1: tell us a little bit what you do in that circle.

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Speaker 1: That's a good question because people that you want to

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Speaker 1: start it, you sit around maybe five or six seven

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Speaker 1: of you. Ideally you sit there, you open with a prayer.

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Speaker 1: You normally do it in the dark because it's easier

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Speaker 1: for the spirit entities to take over, and then you

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Speaker 1: sit there for an hour and you meditate and what

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Speaker 1: happens eventually somebody will how to get impressions or hopefully

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Speaker 1: was that would be fantastic if somebody goes into trance

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Speaker 1: and they and they go into a sort of a

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Speaker 1: sleep and they start talking. Like Leslie Flint, the very

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Speaker 1: famous medium. The first time he went to a developmental circle,

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Speaker 1: he fell asleep and he started talking already, So that

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Speaker 1: that's extremely rare, but it happens so that's what you

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Speaker 1: do in a circle. You meditate for an hour every week.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, it can take frustratingly long before

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Speaker 1: you get results, but if you do get him there

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Speaker 1: unexpected and phenomenal. Anyway, So my wife and I sat

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Speaker 1: with these group of people at that time. We just

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Speaker 1: moved from one apartment to another apartment after we're married,

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Speaker 1: and we needed some pine furniture and not Its an

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Speaker 1: interesting story. This is how got involved. Now, across from

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Speaker 1: the university in South Africa where I was doing my PhD,

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Speaker 1: there was a little pine furniture store. And not having

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Speaker 1: a lot of money, being a student and my wife,

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Speaker 1: you had a simple job. We went there and we

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Speaker 1: looked for some pine furniture, pine tables, some pine chairs,

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Speaker 1: and there was two elderly people owned the shop and

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Speaker 1: they helped us. So I sat down at one of

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Speaker 1: these years. I said, boy, these are hard. This will

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Speaker 1: really keep us awake when we sit in our little seance.

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Speaker 1: And the store owner said to me, oh, you sit

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Speaker 1: in seances. I said yeah. I thought it was a

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Speaker 1: big shot. I said, yeah, we sit in the developmental

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Speaker 1: circle and we're developing a medium. She said, oh, that's interesting.

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Speaker 1: She said would you like to come to a seance?

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Speaker 1: My wife and I said, looked at her, said of

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Speaker 1: course we would. Her name was Sarah and her husband's Mickey.

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Speaker 1: They were both in their sixties and they owned the shop.

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Speaker 1: So two weeks later we come to their house and

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Speaker 1: two people there, one of the two of the people

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Speaker 1: they are One of them was professor Allen, he was

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Speaker 1: the professor of anatomy at the university, and his wife

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Speaker 1: and two other people. So there were six of us

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Speaker 1: and Mickey and Sarah. So we walk into this room

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Speaker 1: where they take us totally blackened out, the windows totally

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Speaker 1: covered with black sheets. In the corner where two chairs

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Speaker 1: with and you can pull a curtain in front of them.

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Speaker 1: So they sit in the corner and a little bit

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Speaker 1: in front of them is a curtain that pulls in

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Speaker 1: front of them, and the door was also sealed. When

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Speaker 1: everybody sat down, there was a red light above us,

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Speaker 1: and then one of the sitters turned the red light.

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Speaker 1: Also we're sitting there in total darkness, and in front

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Speaker 1: of this curtain which was closed with it. That was

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Speaker 1: in front of Mickey and Sarah. On the floor is

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Speaker 1: something we call a trumpet. It's not the kind of trumpet.

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Speaker 1: It's more like a megaphone. You know, you're seeing these

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Speaker 1: things at football games with these cheer leaders shout through

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Speaker 1: these megaphones. But this is a small version of a megaphone.

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Speaker 1: It's about a foot and a half high and about

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Speaker 1: a diameter of about four inches at the bottom. But

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Speaker 1: it was luminous paint on it, so you could clearly

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Speaker 1: see it's sitting there like it's turned out. And we

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Speaker 1: sit there and after about say, about two minutes, and

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Speaker 1: entity starts speaking from sort of behind the curtain, to

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Speaker 1: the side of the curtain, and it's a your voice

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Speaker 1: of a young man starts talking to us, and he

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Speaker 1: in trainee, welcomes us for being there. Had an American accent,

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Speaker 1: which makes you said, obviously, weren't there a South African

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Speaker 1: with a retypical South African accent. He starts speaking to us,

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Speaker 1: welcoming us and hopes we enjoyed the sitting, and he

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Speaker 1: talks to the other people who he knows, and he

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Speaker 1: laughs a bit with them and make some jokes. And

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Speaker 1: his name was Brian and he turned out to be

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Speaker 1: He was a young American who died early nine hundreds

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Speaker 1: and he was buried somewhere up state New York, which

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Speaker 1: Professor Allen when he was in the US once confirmed.

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Speaker 1: Then Brian said, okay, let things happen and start. So

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Speaker 1: he said, okay, we were wondering what would happen, and

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, this trumpet, this megaphone starts flying

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Speaker 1: around the room like he does, flying all around up

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Speaker 1: to the corners and came right in front of us

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Speaker 1: with tap us on the head, with tap us on

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Speaker 1: the knee, and we'll do that to everybody, and we'll

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Speaker 1: just fly around for several minutes. Didn't hit anything, and

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Speaker 1: this isn't pitch darkness, And all of a sudden stops

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Speaker 1: right in the middle, right in front of that black curtain.

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Speaker 1: It stops there, and an entity starts speaking through a

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Speaker 1: lady called maybe I remember very well, with a German accent,

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Speaker 1: heavy German accent, started speaking to us, and she talked

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Speaker 1: the sort of philosophy about the purpose of life and

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Speaker 1: what we're doing in life and things like that. That

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Speaker 1: was quite quite fascinating, and uh, I mean we were dumbfounded.

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Speaker 1: I mean we we've never experienced this. Of course, my

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Speaker 1: first reaction is it's fraud, But then you think about it.

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Speaker 1: How the hell does this thing fly up to the ceiling,

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Speaker 1: to the corners of the room in the pitch darkness

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Speaker 1: without hitting anybody? You know, I thought it might have

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Speaker 1: been Nicky doing holding it, But how does he do that? See?

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Speaker 1: And we have to take a quick break, and I'm

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Speaker 1: very excited to hear what you're about to say. Next.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast Coast, a m paranormal podcast network.

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Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere, there's more Shades of the Afterlife coming

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Speaker 1: right up. Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm

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Speaker 1: Sandra Champlain and we are here with physicist Jan Vander

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Speaker 1: Sandy talking about his first experience with physical mediumship. Jan,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about the seance in South Africa where different

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Speaker 1: entities spoke and a trumpet flew around the room. What

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Speaker 1: else happened? So a few other entities came and spoke

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Speaker 1: to us, and that was the first sitting we had

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Speaker 1: with them. Professor Allenden said to me, Janny said this

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Speaker 1: is real. He'd been sitting with them for years and

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Speaker 1: he said, Jan, this is totally genuine. It's not them

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Speaker 1: doing this. You can hear all the different voices that

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Speaker 1: came and spoke to us, and then this trumpet flying

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Speaker 1: around the room. I said, but how does this trumpet

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Speaker 1: fly around the room? He says, Oh, all that has

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Speaker 1: to do with ectoplasm. And now we get into the

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Speaker 1: real physical phenomena. Real physical phenomena are involved when we're

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Speaker 1: dealing with ectoplasm. It's an interesting substance. It was actually

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Speaker 1: called actoplasm by in nineteen o five by a professor

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Speaker 1: Riche who was a professor in France of professor of physics.

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Speaker 1: They actually won the Nobel Prize and it was actually

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Speaker 1: analyzed ectoplasm by several famous scientists and professors in nineteen

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Speaker 1: six And ectoplasm basically consists of what the body consists

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Speaker 1: of cells nine oxygen. It consists of those kind of things.

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Speaker 1: What it is is is a white substance. And I'll

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Speaker 1: describe how to you how I saw it the first time,

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Speaker 1: because we became very good friends with Mickey and Sarah,

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Speaker 1: and we ended up by the way, sitting with them

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Speaker 1: for eight years. Every time we sat with them, and

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Speaker 1: in the beginning was quite often. Afterwards, when they were

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Speaker 1: getting older, it became became less and less frequent, but

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Speaker 1: every time we sat with them, by the way, this

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Speaker 1: trumpet would fly around the room. Sarah would always go

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Speaker 1: into trance, and his anthony Brian would always talk to us.

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Speaker 1: But one of the sittings, they said, Jen and my

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Speaker 1: wife Marlene said, we're gonna have a surprise for you.

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Speaker 1: They invited one of their friends called Kitty Gordon. Kitty

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Speaker 1: and Max were friends of theirs. They were they were

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Speaker 1: where she was already in her late sixties early seventies.

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Speaker 1: She used to be a materialization medium and she had

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Speaker 1: stopped because she was getting old. And they've been doing

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Speaker 1: it for three forty years, so they said, you know,

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Speaker 1: she really stopped, but she agreed is one time to

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Speaker 1: come and sit with us. So Mickey and Sarah would

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Speaker 1: sit behind the curtain in the room and this lady

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Speaker 1: Kitty was sitting next to them, and this time they

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Speaker 1: turned the red light on and then Kitty went into trance,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, this ectoplasm started pouring out

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Speaker 1: of her nose and it went down over her body

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Speaker 1: onto the floor, and it was still attached to her nose,

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Speaker 1: and he just kept on pouring out of her nose

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Speaker 1: and then just on the floor. It looks like silky

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Speaker 1: cheese cloth. It is a fluid because it was flowing,

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Speaker 1: and when it was on the floor, Sarah wasn't trance.

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Speaker 1: Brian came out and said to one of the sitters,

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Speaker 1: told him to pick it up, because you can only

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Speaker 1: touch it when they tell you to. He told the

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Speaker 1: one of the sitters to pick it up at the corner,

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Speaker 1: to hold it up and to walk across the room.

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Speaker 1: There it was stretched about five ft high all across

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Speaker 1: the room, the sheet of white. It's ectoplasm. And you

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Speaker 1: could see if we're still stretched and was still attached

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Speaker 1: to her nose, and you could see all this oh

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Speaker 1: right in front of us, a few feet of her.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I know. And it was, you know,

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Speaker 1: four or five ft high. All the way to the

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Speaker 1: ground was a big sheet. And then Brian said to

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Speaker 1: that person, just let a drop. He dropped it and

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Speaker 1: dropped to the floor and then started coming all the

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Speaker 1: way back into the nose of Kitty disiter of the medium.

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Speaker 1: So that was our first experience with ectoplasm. People might

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Speaker 1: listen to me and say you're nuts. No, I'm nut nuts.

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Speaker 1: I have degrees in physics, degrees in mathematics. I was

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Speaker 1: a professor at Cornell. I was a professor at the

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Speaker 1: university in South Africa. And by the way, when I

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Speaker 1: mentioned this the fellow professors, they thought I was a nutcase.

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Speaker 1: But some of the people who have Nobel Prizes were

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Speaker 1: physicists back in the early people whose professors of physics

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Speaker 1: with Nobel prizes believed in this because they've been to seances.

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Speaker 1: They'd varience this. It is real, and the beauty is

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Speaker 1: it has been photographed, and it's the reggie that The

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Speaker 1: first time it was photographed was back in about eighty

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Speaker 1: He was photographed by Sir William Crooks, you know, a

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Speaker 1: famous physics professor. He took a lot of photographs of ectoplasm.

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Speaker 1: Photography was just new in those days. It was also

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Speaker 1: photographed in the early nineteen hundreds by this baron Fonshanka, German,

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Speaker 1: who were photographed two photographs of all different shapes and

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Speaker 1: forms of ectoplasm. Most critics who see those photographs nonsense,

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Speaker 1: is all fraud, far cheese cloth. It's everything. I saw

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Speaker 1: it come out of someone's nose, get stretched for six

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Speaker 1: ft across the room four ft high, and then when

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Speaker 1: dropped on the ground by itself. It went back into

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Speaker 1: her nose. You tell me how trees cloth does that,

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Speaker 1: and believe me resort. My wife saught everybody there saw it.

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Speaker 1: It is real. Now coming back to my own experiences.

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Speaker 1: Is because in my book, then I recommend if anybody

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Speaker 1: is interested in the subject and you want to see

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Speaker 1: photographs of actoplasm, that I will vouch for one because

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Speaker 1: I know who took them. During my book, like Sandra said,

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Speaker 1: Life after Death, some of the best evidence combined an

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Speaker 1: Amazon Kindle, Amazon the photographer is worth the book alone.

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Speaker 1: So I have vouched for these photographs. Is because four

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Speaker 1: of them, and especially the one on the front cover,

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Speaker 1: were taken by Professor Allen This professor of anatomy at

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Speaker 1: the university. He took those four photographs of not with

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Speaker 1: Mickey and Sarah. They did not produce actoplasm in red light,

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Speaker 1: and I must explain this to the listeners. Hectoplasm is

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Speaker 1: very sensitive to light. White light has got more energy

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Speaker 1: than red light. Red light has got a lower frequencies

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Speaker 1: or less energy. So some media can produce ectoplasm that

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Speaker 1: kids Kitty did when we saw it in red light.

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Speaker 1: Some mediums cannot do that, and they'll talk about some later.

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Speaker 1: And now it gets even stranger but more fascinating. And

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Speaker 1: if you've ever seen this or experience that it will

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Speaker 1: change your life is when this medium then goes into trance.

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Speaker 1: And this was with Professor Allen. He sat with a

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Speaker 1: medium in Johannesburg who Jack would not tell me his name,

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Speaker 1: and the reason was he was a top executive in

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Speaker 1: the insurance world in Johannesburg and he didn't want people

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Speaker 1: to know that he was sitting in seances and producing

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Speaker 1: materializations because a lot of people thought you were in

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Speaker 1: nut case. Then he sat with this particular medium in

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Speaker 1: Johannesburg six times, a young man in his thirties. The

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Speaker 1: ectoplasm would come out of his nose and it would

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Speaker 1: fore first of all, form on his shoulder what they

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Speaker 1: call a voice box, so you can see it. One

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Speaker 1: of the photographs in the book shows a voice book,

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Speaker 1: and I also show a photograph there of Jack Webber,

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Speaker 1: very famous materialis Asian medium never proven to be frauddant

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Speaker 1: or anything. And Jack also Finice photographs similar of a

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Speaker 1: voice box on the shoulder of the medium. The voice

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Speaker 1: box is used in what's called direct voice. This is

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Speaker 1: what the spirit entities you sometimes to talk through. Either

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Speaker 1: the medium isn't trance and they will use the vocal

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Speaker 1: chords of the medium, or they will speak through what's

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Speaker 1: called this voice box, where they will use that voice

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Speaker 1: box and put it over their spirit mouth so they

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Speaker 1: can talk through it. Leslie Flynt, who was a very

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Speaker 1: famous direct voice medium, wouldn't even go into trance. He

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Speaker 1: would be awake, but the voice box would form next

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Speaker 1: to his body and entities would speak and he would

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Speaker 1: even speak to the people speaking through the voice box. Incredible.

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Speaker 1: It was an incredible medium. And this voice box then

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Speaker 1: is used by spirit like Brian with Sarah who then

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Speaker 1: you could hear the voice not from in the behind

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Speaker 1: the curtain, but next to occurred and he was using

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Speaker 1: the voice box by the ectoplasm she produced. So this ectoplasm,

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Speaker 1: that's the one purpose of it, to produce what's called

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Speaker 1: the voice box for spirit entities can use it to

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Speaker 1: talk to us. Then I show a photograph there of

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Speaker 1: this ectoplasm totally draping the medium, and that's exactly what

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Speaker 1: I saw with Kitty, my wife, and I saw with

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Speaker 1: Kitty this ectoplasm draped over the medium. But what happens

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Speaker 1: next is where it gets unbelievable. This actoplasm and forms

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Speaker 1: rolls out to the ground and then starts rising into

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Speaker 1: a solid form like into a rod, and goes higher

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Speaker 1: and higher, and eventually it forms a full human body.

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Speaker 1: It forms a full body in white with draperies on

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Speaker 1: it with it in my book shows that beautifully how

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Speaker 1: it is draped in this white actoplasm. It is a

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Speaker 1: spirit entity that is materiality call a materialization that they

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Speaker 1: have materialized in ectoplasm. And the incredible thing is this

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Speaker 1: entity then who walk around the room, talk to the

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Speaker 1: sitters and touched them if they were If they're allowed,

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Speaker 1: he will touch the sitters and he will allow them

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Speaker 1: to touch them. And these entities that were photographed by

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Speaker 1: Professor Allen, he photographed to full materializations. During my book.

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Speaker 1: He had a professional photographer with him. They use youth

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Speaker 1: ultra violet film and they turned this in red light.

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Speaker 1: And when you look at that photograph of my front cover,

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Speaker 1: you can see on the ground there in the background.

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Speaker 1: I don't if you notice the sandra whole pile of

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Speaker 1: ectoplasm lying there an incredible amount. So you get this

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Speaker 1: whole entity, which by the way, is totally solid speaking

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Speaker 1: to you, and you get this actoplasm, these draperies folds,

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Speaker 1: you know, draping down from the entity. It is just

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Speaker 1: unbelievable and they talk to you. Now. The most impressive

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Speaker 1: example of a materialization medium, and I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about him because there is no one else who's ever

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Speaker 1: produced what he did is called Alec Harris. I think

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Speaker 1: you know about it. I've read the book that was

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Speaker 1: written by his wife, wife Louis Harris. Now you won't

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Speaker 1: believe it, but my friend Mickey and Sarah, the ones

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Speaker 1: we sat with, sat with Alec Harris and his wife.

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Speaker 1: They had sittings with them, so I got firsthand accounts

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Speaker 1: of what happened at those seances. So what you read

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Speaker 1: in the book there because Alec Harris was born in

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Speaker 1: Wales and he was giving demonstration in Wales. He in

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Speaker 1: the beginning never believed it, but he was untold to

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Speaker 1: go and sit in developmental circle or ship with his

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Speaker 1: wife and he would then go into trance and produce

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Speaker 1: these materializations. And the incredible thing about Alec Harris was

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Speaker 1: he would produce from ten to thirty different materializations in

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Speaker 1: one evening and they would come and out at the

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00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: same time, but one at a time. You would sit

430
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: behind the curtain, the black curtain, the materialization would form

431
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 1: walk out all in red lights. Everybody could see it.

432
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 1: Very often one of these materializations was a relative of

433
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: one of the sitters in the circle. We were invited

434
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,640
Speaker 1: to come and sit. Do you imagine one of your

435
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 1: relatives appearing there in front of you. It hasn't happened

436
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: to me, but I know parents that have had their

437
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: children talk to them from beyond the veil. Let's take

438
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: our next break and when we come back, we'll find

439
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: out more. You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on

440
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM paranormal

441
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: podcast network. We are happy to announce that our Coast

442
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: to Coast AM official YouTube channel has now reached over

443
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: three hundred thousand subscribers. You can listen to the first

444
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: hour of recent and past two shows for free, so

445
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 1: head on over to the Coast to Coast a m

446
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 1: dot com website and hit the YouTube icon at the

447
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: top of the page. This is free show audio, so

448
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 1: don't wait. Coast to Coast a m dot com is

449
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: where you want to be. Welcome back to Shades of

450
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: the Afterlife. I'm Sanders Champlain and we are here with

451
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: Professor Jan vanders Andy talking about physical mediumship. Jan, you're

452
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 1: talking about Alec Harris. People would come from all over,

453
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 1: wouldn't they to sit with him. People would travel from

454
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: all over England just try to get in and experience this.

455
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: And these were just these are men, women, children. The

456
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: one guy materialized missing a leg and his relatives said, yes,

457
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: that's my brother. He lost his leg in the war

458
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: in Singapore, Second World War in Singapore. And you know,

459
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 1: they materialized like that. I believe even animals did the animals, Yeah,

460
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 1: he one of David Thompson's sittings. But the little dog

461
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: appeared and ran up and jumped up and sat in

462
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: someone's lap. So Alec Harris. What happened is their son

463
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: moved to South Africa back into the nineteen fifties and

464
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: he got a job there and they moved to Jannisburg.

465
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: And that's where they met Mickey and Sarah. Because Mickey

466
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 1: and Sarah were sitting with Kitty and Max, so they

467
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: were all mediums. So they all sat with each other regularly,

468
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 1: cried often. So Mickey told me these stories about Alec,

469
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: just like you're reading the book about all the sties

470
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: have materialized. And one of the ones that Mickey told

471
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: me the story his native American Indian materialized but very

472
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: tall guy must Mickey said, he must have been six

473
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: and a half tall, really big guy. And he stood

474
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: there in front of everybody in red light and he

475
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 1: said to Mickey Mickey, I am your guide, and I

476
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 1: forgot the name. I am your guide. Please come up

477
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: in front of me. So Mickey walked up and there

478
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 1: is this entity in actoplasm in white talking to him

479
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: with a head dress and Indian dressing, American Indian dress,

480
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 1: and he said to Mickey, hit me on the chest.

481
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 1: So Mickey said what he said, Yeah, hit me on

482
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: the chest. So Mickey gently taps him on his chest

483
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: and the guy says, I said, hit me on the chest.

484
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: So Mickey hit him a little bit harder. The guide

485
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: again said hit me hard. Somebody said okay. He took

486
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 1: his head and hit him as hard as he could.

487
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: Nothing happened, not a thing. The guy just took it totally.

488
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: He said thank you, And Mickey was just dumbfound there

489
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: he had his materialization, which comes from this ectoplasma pours

490
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: out of someone's nose solidifies into an entity that walks

491
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: around the room, but it is always still attached to

492
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: the medium, so it is entered. Even though it walks,

493
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: it is still attached with ectoplasm on the ground that

494
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: is attached to the materialization is still attached out to

495
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: the nose and the medium or the mouth. Sometimes it

496
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: comes out of the years or the solar plexus, so

497
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: they are still attached to the medium. Interesting, and that's

498
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: why that photograph of my front cover of my book,

499
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: you see all that ectoplasm next to the entity there

500
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: that's then attached to the medium. So Mickey told me

501
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: these stories. One of their stories they also told me

502
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: was that the spirit entity sometimes they walk back into

503
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: the cabinet, which as they call it, or behind the

504
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: black curtain. But other times they would sink into the

505
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: floor and disappear. Now you say to yourself, I don't

506
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: believe that, but that he says, jan I saw it

507
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: through my own eyes, and I think you read about

508
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: it if you read Alex's book. He sinks into the ground,

509
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: one of these entities and still talking, and he talks

510
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: and talks and talks until his head is just sticking

511
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: above the floor. You know, the only thing above the

512
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: floor is head, and he's still talking and then his

513
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: head disappears. Now your listeners are gonna say this is nonsense.

514
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: It isn't. The reason I talked so convincingly about it

515
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 1: because I've witnessed it myself, and I have talked to

516
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: people who have seen these things, like Professor Allen, who

517
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: sort of the medium, and Johannisburg who Mikia and Sarah

518
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: who saught with Alec Harris. I saw the ectoplasm myself

519
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: with Kitty and another experience which I just have to

520
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: talk about these Christmas, the Christmas sittings. These are sittings

521
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: of Mickey and Sarah advocause. Remember they were getting older.

522
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: They were not producing full materializations. It's a bit sad

523
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: of entities like Alec Harris would They weren't producing those

524
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,239
Speaker 1: kind of materializations. They were having the trumpet effect. We

525
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: had people talk to us, lots of different guides, but

526
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: they did produce materializations when we had Christmas sittings. They

527
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: could just produce enough actoplasm. What happened at these Christmas

528
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: sitting was ten sitters were invited. My wife and I

529
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: were invited. Two or three years in a row and

530
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: we had everybody was told to bring a wrapped gift,

531
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: so we had a rapped gift. And my wife had

532
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: bought a black doll because the gifts afterwards were given

533
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: to African charities, so we bought this black doll. She

534
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: bought wrapped it never told Sarah or anybody what was

535
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: in it. And we had to put the gifts in

536
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: the middle of the circle. So Sarah and Mickey were

537
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: sitting behind the black curtain. The trumpet, you know, this

538
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: little megaphone was standing up front, and in front of

539
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: that we had lots of little toys that we had

540
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: sitting in front of them, a little toy, drum, toy, whistle,

541
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: a troy trumpet, a toy, some of these little toys

542
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: that you would rub around and have sparks. And I

543
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: forgot what they call those friction toys. There were some

544
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: friction toys. They were all lying there and all the presents,

545
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: who are about ten presents in the front there. So

546
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: the lights are turned out and then firstly Brian comes out.

547
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: Of course he talks to us through the voice box

548
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: and he talks to us and he thinks, he says,

549
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: look everybody, and welcomes them there, and he gets to

550
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: my wife, Marlene, and he says, oh, hello, Marlene, thank

551
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: you for the nice present. He says, you're going to

552
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: have one of those next year, but it won't be

553
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: that color. This was This was in December. My wife

554
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: had our daughter in November next year, so she wasn't expecting.

555
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: But he said to her, you're going to have one

556
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: of these next year, but it won't be that color.

557
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: Then your present was wrapped. The doll was actually totally wrapped,

558
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: and of course dark and stark. No one knew what

559
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: Marlene said, had said nothing to anybody. Is that incredible?

560
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what you call nice evidence. And so

561
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: next November she had our daughter. Then Brian finishes talking

562
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: to everybody. Okay, kids, he says, go ahead, and all

563
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you hear this noise of all these

564
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: presents being unwrapped, to hear all this paper being torn apart.

565
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: We had no there was going on, you can imagine.

566
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: And after a few minutes the boxes were open. These

567
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: kids were playing with the toys. Then the little toys

568
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: we put their little drums, the blistles. They were sort

569
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: of playing all these toys they're playing with the drums,

570
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: blowing the whistles, blowing the trumpets. There was a hell

571
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: of a racket time at the same time, but there

572
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: were there were numerous kids. Then they would walk around

573
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: and pull on your pants. Like my wife had her

574
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: hand laying hand out and they were a little hand

575
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: would touch her hand. And they told us not to

576
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: grab or do anything, but if they came and touched us,

577
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: we we should just allow them. So we allowed them

578
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: to touch us. By me, they were pulling on my pants.

579
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: A few little hands pulling on your pants, and little

580
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: hands will be touching everybody just and then we had

581
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: the friction toys that were rubbing these friction toys for

582
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: little sparks with a little things. You can actually see

583
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: little materialization children there but for a fraction of a

584
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: second while they were using these friction toys. So we

585
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: experienced this, I mean we experienced this two or three

586
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 1: years in a row. Incredible, an incredible experience. How can

587
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 1: anybody all this fraud? Yeah? Well, jan One of the

588
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: reasons I feel so like it's now time for me

589
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 1: to talk about this is I was at one of

590
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: these Christmas seances and that is exactly what happened. And

591
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: it blew my mind. And what's important to know too

592
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 1: is when I saw the medium was strapped down to

593
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: a chair, everybody was searched before going in, just to

594
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: really show this is not some fraudulent thing doing this.

595
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: I mean, these mediums are very, very tested, and that's

596
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: why it's like, we we've got to talk about this.

597
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: We need to bring this into the world. And you know,

598
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: one of the things, every time you say ectoplasm or seance,

599
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,720
Speaker 1: I cringe. And it's only because I've seen the Oustbusters movies,

600
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: you know, with the green slime. Yeah. Yeah. And then

601
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 1: you know, we remember in times of you know, in

602
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: the books and the and the movies and things, hearing

603
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: things about Houdini trying to reach his mother and they

604
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 1: go to these seances, and it all sounds like a

605
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: very creepy world, and it wasn't one that I wanted

606
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 1: to really talk about because I didn't want people think

607
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: I'm crazy. But it's not creepy. It's filled with love

608
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 1: and fun and humor. Yeah, exactly. And what is the

609
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: whole purpose. The whole purposes to show people here on

610
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: earth that death is not the end, now that you're

611
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: going to continue living. They're here to show and prove

612
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: something to us. And a lot of times little children,

613
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 1: you know, come out their parents to show them, hey,

614
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,439
Speaker 1: we're still alive. We're still here. Yeah, we're still here,

615
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: and we're around you all the time. So it is

616
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: a experience filled with love. But the fact that, like

617
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 1: you experienced it, and you did it in England, I

618
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: think you do what you told me. I experienced it

619
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: in South Africa. Different continents, different times, but notice a

620
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: very similar kind of experiences. These are phenomenal. This is

621
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 1: not fraud. Anybody who says to me fraud. To give

622
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: you a good example, when I was a professor at Cornell,

623
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 1: this was back in the early nineteen eighties, they had

624
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 1: invited Randy the Magician. I don't know if you ever

625
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: heard of him. He's not retired. He used to be

626
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 1: the big debunker of psychic phenomenon and he would go

627
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: on TV shows and saying it's all nonsense. I can

628
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,240
Speaker 1: do whatever they can do. You know, this is Bologna.

629
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: He was there the professor's department. They divided him. They

630
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: said there was anybody there in the department who wanted

631
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: to speak to him, and I said, yeah, sure, I

632
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,800
Speaker 1: did so I took my photographs with me and showed

633
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: it to him at a private meeting with him. We

634
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: had one look. He says, that's nonsense, that's fraud. I said, oh,

635
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: can you do this? Oh of course I can. Okay,

636
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 1: I'll tie you to a chair in the dark, and

637
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: I'll tie you with straps and everything, and you produce this.

638
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: Oh well, we'll see, we'll do it. So, you know,

639
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: immediately backtracked as soon as I challenged him that I

640
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: would tie him to a chair, all of a sudden,

641
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, no, But well we'll think about it,

642
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: you know. But he's out there because why he made

643
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 1: a good living doing that. And then other people when

644
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: they hear about this, anybody who listeners, who are going

645
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: to hear about this, they're gonna say, wait a minute,

646
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: this is not possible. It is. The photographs are there

647
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: to prove it. And also that I have some book

648
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: photographs in my book from Minnie Harrison. I don't know

649
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,439
Speaker 1: if you've heard a minute. Oh, I have the book.

650
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: Tom Harrison's book had it. I know Tom. I've spoken

651
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: to him. He had retired in Spain. He's not in

652
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: the spirit world. Because I asked permission to use some

653
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: of his photographs in my book. So we got to

654
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: be very friendly, and he loved it. He asked me

655
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: to send me my photographs, to send them because he

656
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: he loved this to see others have the same experiences.

657
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:02,399
Speaker 1: It was his mother who produced full materializations in their

658
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: room in their seances. So I asked some of those

659
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: photographs in the book, and one of the times Tom

660
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 1: told me it's in this book was what it was

661
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: a medical doctor there and he measured the pulse of

662
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 1: these materializations. They have a pulse. They talked to us

663
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: and believe it or not, to have a pulse. They're warm,

664
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,839
Speaker 1: they have a pulse and it's like nothing I've ever

665
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: experienced before. Jan we have to go into our last

666
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: break and when we come back, we'll hear more. You're

667
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I Heart

668
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: Radio and Coast Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. Okay, folks,

669
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: we need your music. Hey, it's producer Tom at Coast

670
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: to Coast AM and every first Sunday of the month,

671
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: we play music from emerging artists just like you. If

672
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,919
Speaker 1: you're a musician or a singer and have recorded music,

673
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 1: you'd like to submit. It's very easy. Just go to

674
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 1: Coast to Coast m dot com. Click the Emerging Artists

675
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: banner in the carousel, follow the instructions and we just

676
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: might play your music on the air. Go now to

677
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: Coast to Coast am dot com to send us your recording.

678
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 1: That's Coast to Coast am dot com. Welcome back to

679
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sanders Champlain and we are

680
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 1: here with physicist Jan vanders Andy talking about physical mediumship. Now,

681
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: physical mediumship was really big back in the turn of

682
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: the century and mid to late eighteen hundreds, very very

683
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: rare today, but it does exist. So, Jan, you had

684
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: mentioned David Thompson. David Thompson's an Australian medium and David

685
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 1: was doing materializations. But David was not good enough to

686
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 1: do them in the red light. David did him in

687
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: the black in the park. So immediately people say it's fraud.

688
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: People are so quick to criticize. David then gets strapped

689
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: to a chair. Did you see David or did you

690
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: see Scopa both? You know what? Then you saw David.

691
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: You take David, you strapped into the chair with these

692
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: ti plastic treat ties. They pulled him tightly around him.

693
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,280
Speaker 1: His legs get tied to the legs of the chair,

694
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 1: his hands get tied to the arm rest of the chair.

695
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: A scarf gets done through his mouth tied to that.

696
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: So there he is totally tied to the chair. And

697
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: we could actually go up and make sure he's strapped in,

698
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,399
Speaker 1: make sure his hands couldn't fit through those straps, make

699
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 1: sure it wasn't a trick chair. I mean I checked

700
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: it out exactly, and me, I was the one who

701
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: organized the room where it was, so there was no

702
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 1: nothing could have been hidden there because David came in,

703
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: you know, that was it. He couldn't do anything not

704
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: I mean, the room was totally organized by me. It

705
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: was totally sealed, totally dark. Lights has turned off. And

706
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:08,919
Speaker 1: then as you know, his guide, William James, comes out.

707
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: Now William, he walks in boots, so we had plywood

708
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: on the ground so you could hear him step hard

709
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: on the on the plywood, the boots he was wearing.

710
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: David was wearing sneakers, and he walks around William touching

711
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,240
Speaker 1: everybody on the head with his big hand. Did happened

712
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 1: to you, Sandra? It did? And it was a big,

713
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: warm hand that I sell, wasn't it so? And I

714
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: asked William, I said, William, do you have a pulse?

715
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: So he grabbed my hand with his hand, he put

716
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: it up to his neck and I could feel his

717
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: pulse in his neck. Incredible. There he is standing right

718
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: in front of me and we were talking, and he

719
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 1: thanked me for David inviting, getting David to come out

720
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 1: and um. And then he walks around talking to everybody

721
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: and he talks about, hey, all we're doing here is

722
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,959
Speaker 1: to show to you that you live after you die.

723
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: You're not gonna die. And yes you're gonna die. Your

724
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: physical body is gonna leave you, but your spiritual body

725
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 1: is going to go on. And that's where he came out.

726
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 1: He know what he did, and that David does the

727
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: same thing. He has trumpets, these trumpets flying around the room,

728
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: and one of the sittings, I had two of my

729
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 1: own trumpets that read my wife and I used. So

730
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: there were three trumpets flying around the room at the

731
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: same time. Now you tell me, and then people tell

732
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: me it's fraud, I say, well, how the hell. Oh yeah,

733
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 1: he gets out of the bindings. He has night vision

734
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 1: goggles and takes the trumpet and moves it around. And

735
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: I said to that person, you ought to go to

736
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: an insane asylum in case you have to experience it.

737
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you do, because it as great

738
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,359
Speaker 1: as it sounds that this would be reality. I mean it,

739
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 1: it's scary for even myself to tell people about it

740
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 1: because so many times we've been burned by things and

741
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,919
Speaker 1: by people. And I do think back in the day

742
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: when physical mediumship was in his heyday, there were magicians

743
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: that we're trying to pray on people absolutely, and they

744
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: used to take these umpets and time with a string

745
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 1: and wisdom around the year. But you could hear that

746
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: if you listened closely, you can hear the wisdom. These

747
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: trumpets fly around the room to the corners of this

748
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 1: high speed and come and tap you on the head,

749
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: on the knee, even if it's in the dark, and

750
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: very gentle, very gentle, and they just have her thing

751
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: since don't have her. But I think that's why this

752
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 1: is so good that we're having this conversation. Yeah, because

753
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: I mean, you and I have experienced it. But I

754
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,240
Speaker 1: have spoken to the people who sat with the greats

755
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: in this field, you know, I've spoken to people who

756
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: sat with Leslie Flynt with Alec Harris. I know the

757
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: people who took the photographs. I've spoken to them and

758
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,240
Speaker 1: they swore blind. This professor of anatomy, is he gonna

759
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,720
Speaker 1: phony a photograph? I mean, you know, we became friends

760
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 1: for twenty years. We were great friends. So when you've

761
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: experienced all these things yourself and you know it, and

762
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,359
Speaker 1: you've spoken to the people, you've seen it with your

763
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,359
Speaker 1: own eyes. Like one thing, I gotta tell you about

764
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: one of David's seances here the injury in l A,

765
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: because I brought him back again two years later because

766
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: there was so much demand for people to come and

767
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: sit with them. But one of the seances here in

768
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: the room we had this was in the hotel conference room.

769
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: There were these plastic trees they have in the four corners.

770
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: They're about six eight ft high in the pots that

771
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: the thing must have weighed anyway from five to ten pounds.

772
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 1: During the sitting, those five plants were taken from the

773
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: corners and put right around me. So there I was

774
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: sitting with those five trees right around me and little Timothy,

775
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 1: who is a little guide of David's. You've heard Timothy.

776
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 1: He was laughing like Alice's chan we put you in

777
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: a forest and he's laughing like hell. And I had

778
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,720
Speaker 1: no idea what's going on until eventually after the seance

779
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 1: lights would turned on and there these four trees, plants

780
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 1: in these plastic trees were sitting next right around me

781
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 1: my chair. Incredible, incredible. Plus also, David, as you know,

782
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 1: in the sitting where you've probably had, they moved him

783
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 1: tied in his chair to the center of the circle.

784
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: I don't know if you had that they did, and

785
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: how they could move the cabinet out far and his

786
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: clothes was on backwards and his sweater was on backwards.

787
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 1: But Voss was even more amazing. The circle came from

788
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 1: the around the cabinet where he was sitting, so they

789
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: didn't move him forward. They actually lifted him and put

790
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: him on the back over the people behind the circle.

791
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 1: We're dealing with energy here that we just don't know.

792
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: And as physicist, any physicist who says we know all

793
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: the laws of physics doesn't know what he's talking about.

794
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,399
Speaker 1: There are things happening here that we just don't understand. Yet,

795
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 1: nothing scary happens, There's nothing I feel worse after leaving

796
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 1: one of these seances. The only feeling I've had is

797
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: when people tell me it's fraud and they, oh, yeah,

798
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 1: he's got nine vision goggles. I said, where do you have,

799
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: oh Adam and his pants? Oh Jesus. You know, these

800
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: are the kind of comments you get. Yeah, And there

801
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 1: have been people that have been outed for being you know,

802
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 1: that have been filmed on the thermal cameras, that have

803
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: walked around the realm and have been holding the trumpet.

804
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: You know. So, Sandra, you are unfortunately back in the

805
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: late eight d early nineteen hundreds, when when spiritualism was

806
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,280
Speaker 1: really at its peak, there were so many frauds because

807
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: there were so many gullible people who are willing to

808
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: pay for it. And of course, when there's money involved,

809
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 1: there's fraud involved. No matter what you talk about everything

810
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:42,280
Speaker 1: in life, if there's money involved, there's unfortunately fraud involved.

811
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: And yes, there were a lot of fraudulent mediums. There

812
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 1: were fraudulent people who took advantage of beriefed people, and

813
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: there's lots of people out there. Yeah, and you are correct,

814
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 1: and you read the literature, but then you have to know.

815
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: That's why in my book, the evidence I present is

816
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 1: from the horses I believe accurate and for mediums who

817
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 1: have never ever been proven to be fraudulent. So as

818
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: a reminder, Jan vanders Andy's book is called Life After

819
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 1: Death Some of the Best Evidence. Also another book I

820
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: highly highly highly recommend. It's called Alec Harris, the full

821
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 1: story of his remarkable physical mediumship by his wife and

822
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: her name is Louis Harris. Best book that I have

823
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: read so far, and you can read it on kindle

824
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,439
Speaker 1: if you can't get a hard copy. I haven't brought

825
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: up physical mediumship too much as far as my experiences,

826
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: because the truth is it does sound kind of weird,

827
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,240
Speaker 1: and even to me, I had to make a three

828
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 1: thousand mile trip just to discover it for myself. I

829
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 1: took a five day workshop with two seances, tons of information,

830
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 1: food and beverage included, and hotel room for it was

831
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: less than five dollars, So that is not somebody who's

832
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 1: trying to trick me. One of the great mediums I

833
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: saw is Scott Milligan. You've heard me talk about him

834
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 1: in the show. You've also heard some of his trances speaking.

835
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: He is also a physical medium. I used to hate

836
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: Christmas and the holidays because my parents divorced when I

837
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: was fourteen years old. My seance with Scott Milligan was

838
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 1: much like jam Vanders. Andy talked about a group of

839
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 1: people sitting in a circle. There was a Christmas tree

840
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: in the center with lots of toys that were wrapped,

841
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: and at one point it was as if the room

842
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 1: was filled with children. All the presents were unwrapped at

843
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:53,320
Speaker 1: the very same time and things started flying around the room.

844
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,879
Speaker 1: Everything was being played with at once. But what makes

845
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: Scott Milligan's physical mediumship the most exceptional to me is

846
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 1: that loved ones come through and speak to their family members.

847
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,760
Speaker 1: I have witnessed many children talk to their parents again,

848
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: Husbands speak to their wives and vice versa, detailed messages

849
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: as if they were alive. Because they are. Somehow they

850
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:27,280
Speaker 1: are able to step into this ectoplasmic robe and become

851
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 1: real again. I've even witnessed children's fingers touching my fingers.

852
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: The experience is priceless. It's not anything I would dream

853
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: of trying to convince you of in a radio show.

854
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 1: But in the future, when the world gets a little

855
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 1: safer to travel again, we will be holding some more

856
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: We don't die. Conferences around the world and you can

857
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,719
Speaker 1: meet Carrie and phil Son. Youre a Naldi, sit with

858
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:02,240
Speaker 1: Scott Milligan and have the six variance for yourself. There's

859
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 1: nothing like it to go from a hope of the afterlife,

860
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:11,919
Speaker 1: to a faith, to a belief, to absolutely knowing it's real.

861
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,240
Speaker 1: There's nothing quite like it. As we close this show today,

862
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 1: I want you to just look around you. You may

863
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 1: feel alone, but in the invisible space around you, you

864
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 1: have the biggest group of cheerleaders wanting you to have

865
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:32,320
Speaker 1: the best life possible. They're they're trying to wipe your tears.

866
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 1: They're they're celebrating the good times. That moment you close

867
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 1: your eyes for the very last time here on Earth,

868
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: you will open them and be reunited with them. That

869
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: I promise. So I want to remind you our home

870
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 1: base is we Don't Die dot com. If you join

871
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 1: our email list at the bottom of the page, you

872
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: get a free copy of my book, We Don't Die.

873
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: If you'd rather hear the audio book, go over to

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Speaker 1: the store, find the audio book and use coupon code

875
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:09,320
Speaker 1: free f R. Also join us for Sunday gathering. We

876
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 1: have mediumship demonstrations coming up and all kinds of good things.

877
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 1: I want to thank you from the bottom of my

878
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 1: heart for listening. My name is Sandra Champlain. I'm your

879
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,319
Speaker 1: host on Shades of the Afterlife right here on the

880
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:28,240
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.

881
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,880
Speaker 1: And if you like this episode of Shades of the Afterlife,

882
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 1: wait until you hear the next one. Thank you for

883
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 1: listening to the Heart Radio and Coast to Coast a

884
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 1: m paranormal podcast Network.