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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's me w camal Bell. Welcome to the

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Speaker 1: very first episode of my brand new podcast, Who's with Me?

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Speaker 1: The podcast is based on my substack, Who's with Me?

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Speaker 1: If that's the name of my stand up comedy tour.

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Speaker 1: Who's with Me? That's the most important question I think

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Speaker 1: we can ask each other these days before we get

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Speaker 1: into what we disagree about or how we can even

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Speaker 1: build together. First of all, are you with me? If

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Speaker 1: you are, we can work on some of the things

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Speaker 1: we may not agree with or some of the things

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Speaker 1: that are more nuanced. But are you just generally with

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Speaker 1: me on this the correct side of history? Are you

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Speaker 1: down for the people? Are you down for the struggle?

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Speaker 1: Are you down for the people who don't look like you,

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Speaker 1: have a different religion for you, maybe have a different

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Speaker 1: lifestyle with you from you, maybe have a different sexuality

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Speaker 1: or gender expression than you. Are you down for those people?

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Speaker 1: Are you pro Black Lives Matter? Are do you listen

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Speaker 1: to black women? Are you against anti Semitism? Are you

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Speaker 1: also down for free Palestine? Are you down for immigrants rights?

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Speaker 1: Are you pro immigration? Do you say fucked ice?

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Speaker 2: What else? Are you anti fascist?

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Speaker 1: Do you think that we should give the land back

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Speaker 1: to Native Americans, and some of those you will be like,

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Speaker 1: I'm now with eight of those. We're not that one. Hey,

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Speaker 1: we're just figuring it out. If you're down with generally,

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Speaker 1: down with that area of down with the people, down

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Speaker 1: for the struggle, down to stand up against our fascist

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Speaker 1: government Trump, then you're with me. Also, do you want

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Speaker 1: to laugh and have a good time while you're standing

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Speaker 1: up to the man, then you're with me. Do some

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Speaker 1: of the things, did some of the things I say

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Speaker 1: sort of scary you a little bit? Like, Hey, that's okay,

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Speaker 1: don't be scared. Just sit down, listen, we'll talk it through.

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Speaker 1: I'm recording this in San Diego. I'm actually here from

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Speaker 1: my Who's with Me stand up comedy tour Because I'm

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Speaker 1: a person who's on the road a lot. This podcast

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Speaker 1: will take place in a lot of different places, a

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Speaker 1: lot of different ways. So right now I'm in San Diego.

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Speaker 1: Got a show tonight at the Mic Drop Comedy Club.

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Speaker 1: That means nothing to you, because by the time you

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Speaker 1: hear this, I will have done the show. It was great,

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Speaker 1: It was awesome, We had a great time. Every show

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Speaker 1: was sold out. They're not sold out anyway. That's not important.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast. Today's guest is the actor Delroy Lindo.

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Speaker 1: He's Academy Award nominated, should have won for the movie Centers,

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Speaker 1: Ryan Coogler's magnum opus. Delroy lives in Oakland, California, just

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Speaker 1: like I do. I found that out a few years ago.

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Speaker 1: He lived there. It's not a thing that was common

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Speaker 1: knowledge up until recently. I don't think I found out

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Speaker 1: because at one point I lived sort of adjacent to

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Speaker 1: the neighborhood he lived in. And then when I go

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Speaker 1: to the farmer's market, a lot of white people would

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Speaker 1: be like, oh, of course, you know del Ro Lindo

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Speaker 1: lives here. Oh, Delwroy lives here. YouTube must be a friends.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know him. We weren't friends. I'm not in

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Speaker 1: the same lane of show business as Delroy window is in.

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Speaker 1: Let me say, I'm in this lane of show business.

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Speaker 1: Dero Lindo's in this lane of show business. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: it's actually yeah, that's what the deal is. But we

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Speaker 1: did end up meeting through a mutual friend. We'll tell

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Speaker 1: the story in the podcast. De Roland is incredible. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk more about him in a little bit. First, I

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Speaker 1: want to introduce myself to you, you know, allow me

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Speaker 1: to reintroduce myself. Most people know me from my CNN

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Speaker 1: show United States of America that ran for seven seasons

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Speaker 1: won three Emmys. I traveled around the country talking to

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Speaker 1: people about all sorts of issues, generally race, racism, culture,

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Speaker 1: American capitalism, fascism, sometimes food. And other people may know

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Speaker 1: me from my ubiquitous ACLU commercials that air all the

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Speaker 1: time on ms NOW formally known as MSNBC. People actually

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Speaker 1: think I work on ms NOW because those commercials air

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Speaker 1: so often. I don't. Those commercials are in ms NOW

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Speaker 1: way more often than I am. But you should know

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Speaker 1: also that I have worked with the ACLU for over

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Speaker 1: ten years now. I'm their artist Ambassador for Racial Justice. Also,

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Speaker 1: I was the host of their podcast at Liberty up

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Speaker 1: until very recently, and I try to do everything I

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Speaker 1: can for the ACLU whenever I can. Check out the ACLU.

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Speaker 1: Have you heard of the ACLU. That's the thing about

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Speaker 1: this podcast. We're going to talk about ways you can help.

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Speaker 1: You've probably heard of the ACLU. We'll talk about ways

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Speaker 1: that you may not know about over the Courses podcast.

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Speaker 1: Other people may know me from stand up comedy like

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Speaker 1: I said, I'm on the road right now. I got

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Speaker 1: a Nefinlix special called Private School Negro came out in

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen at a Showtime special called Semi Prominent Negro.

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Speaker 1: I think they came out in twenty sixteen. I don't

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Speaker 1: even know if you can find it anymore. It was

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Speaker 1: pretty good. I'm on the road right now doing comedy.

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Speaker 1: So that's where all of this career started with me

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Speaker 1: as a stand up comedian. And now here I am

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Speaker 1: in all sorts of different areas because I'm just a

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Speaker 1: curious person. Where else might you know me from?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Also you might know me from podcasting. I've had many podcasts.

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Speaker 1: I've had many lives in podcasting, starting back in the

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Speaker 1: day with a podcast called Ciskel and Negro with my

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Speaker 1: good friend Kevin Avery, who will appear in an upcoming

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Speaker 1: episode of this podcast. Then I also had a podcast

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Speaker 1: called Politically Reactive with my friend Harry Cundibola, who I

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Speaker 1: as soon will appear in an episode at some point

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Speaker 1: because he'll demand it. And me and Kevin Avery also

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Speaker 1: had a podcast named Denzel Washington is the greatest actor

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Speaker 1: of all time period. I know there's some Denzel's out

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Speaker 1: there who've been waiting for that to come back. You

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Speaker 1: might hear about that podcast in this episode. Actually will

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Speaker 1: Me and Derroy weirdly talk about it. I didn't plan

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Speaker 1: on it, but it came up.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 1: I also had a podcast with one of my good friends,

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Speaker 1: one of my absolute heroes, Living Color founder and lead

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Speaker 1: guitar player, Ernon Reed. We had a podcast called The

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Speaker 1: Field Negro Guide to Arts and Culture. Like I said,

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Speaker 1: that podcast was so early days of podcasting. We record

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Speaker 1: on laptops over Skype, and the connections were always bad

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Speaker 1: and one of us would always dropped the call. It

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Speaker 1: was early days. But that's another thing you should know

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Speaker 1: about me. I'm a kid from the nineties, so and

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Speaker 1: I'm also a blurred from the nineties.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 1: My favorite bands are Living Color, Fishbone, Rage Against the Machine,

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Speaker 1: Sound Garden System of a Down I keep going. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: specifically Living Colored, Fishbone are my guys. Those are my guys. Actually,

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Speaker 1: the song you hear in this podcast is by one

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Speaker 1: of the founders of Fishbone, Chris Dowd. It's called don't

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Speaker 1: give up on Yourself, which is a message we need

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Speaker 1: to hear as also we find out who's with me?

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Speaker 1: You should also know about me that I'm an only child.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think that's my one of my main definers,

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Speaker 1: Like black man with the heart of an only child?

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Speaker 2: Is that a thing?

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Speaker 1: I think that's what That's how I really see the world,

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Speaker 1: which is why I'm sort of curious and go to

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Speaker 1: lots of different places because I had one of those

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Speaker 1: things called a black mom. For people listening, I just

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Speaker 1: showed my T shirt that says made with the Love,

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Speaker 1: strength and Resilience of my mom Mahogany Mommy's you can

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Speaker 1: get that on the website my first ad anyway, So

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Speaker 1: I had a black mom who let me do whatever

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Speaker 1: I wanted to do. So I just sort of have

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Speaker 1: been in a lot of areas. Even though my career

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Speaker 1: started out and stand up comedy, I have gone lots

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Speaker 1: of different places. Like some of you may know me

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Speaker 1: from being a documentary filmmaker at an HBO doc named

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Speaker 1: one thousand Percent Me Growing Up Mixed that was about

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Speaker 1: mixed children in the Bay Area talking about their lives

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Speaker 1: as mixed kids in America. Featured three of my daughters

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Speaker 1: in there too. Two really one was too young to

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Speaker 1: be featured. She couldn't sign the release and then my

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Speaker 1: other documentary that I'm known for is called We Need

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Speaker 1: to Talk About Cosby, which is a documentary about the

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Speaker 1: cultural impact, life and crimes of Bill Cosby. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: still has a lot of people in their feelings, has

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Speaker 1: me and my feelings. But you know, it's four parts,

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Speaker 1: very nuanced, and you know, I'm proud of it. We

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Speaker 1: want a Peabody for it. Not that I'm in this

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Speaker 1: for the awards, but at least we feel like my

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Speaker 1: peers respected it. But yeah, sometimes people ask me with

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Speaker 1: all my work because I sort of have intense conversations

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Speaker 1: like come out, you.

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Speaker 2: Do all these things? Is it hard to do what

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Speaker 2: you do? Is it hard?

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Speaker 1: And wherever I start to go, yeah, whatever I start

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Speaker 1: to think to say, yes it's hard, the ghost of

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Speaker 1: Harry Tubman shows up, like wait what or we say

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Speaker 1: it's hard to direct documentaries and host TV shows?

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Speaker 2: Is that what you're saying it's hard? Like, no, Harriet,

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Speaker 2: it's easy. It's easy. It's not that it's not challenging

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Speaker 2: and do what I do, but it's important to.

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Speaker 1: Keep perspective in these times where this country and our

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Speaker 1: leadership has lost all perspective.

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Speaker 2: So where else might you know me?

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Speaker 1: From Often I'm on Instagram writing ha ha on the

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Speaker 1: faces of my enemies, like that's the thing I do

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Speaker 1: in big red letters. Again, this came from substacks. Some

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Speaker 1: mean you probably joined me from Substack my newsletter Who's

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Speaker 1: with Me? It comes out once a week. You can

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Speaker 1: subscribe for free or throw many free dollars, whatever you

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Speaker 1: want to do. And this podcast is a result of

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Speaker 1: the Substack being so successful that I thought I wanted

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Speaker 1: to have a bigger version of the Substack. So just

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Speaker 1: to be clear, in this time where show business and

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Speaker 1: America is turning into DEI, this is me investing in

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Speaker 1: my own career. I'm partnered up with Malcolm Gladwell's Pushkin

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Speaker 1: and I'm partnered up with Rabergrant's doing the production. And

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Speaker 1: today I'm at MK Labs here in San Diego and

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Speaker 1: Christian's over here. And so like, you're like a brown brother,

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Speaker 1: a half brown. Hey, mixed, I got mixed kids, so

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Speaker 1: I will claim you. So yeah, So it's like, this

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Speaker 1: is me investing in myself and trying to better myself

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Speaker 1: because the industry is not betting on people like me anymore.

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Speaker 1: So this is important to me. You know what, That's enough,

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Speaker 1: let's just get to the podcast. Well, first of all,

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Speaker 1: thank you for joining me, Thanks for having me as

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Speaker 1: we record this. You have gone through one of those

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Speaker 1: marathon press runs that only a few people know about. Sure,

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Speaker 1: and this is a point where I would imagine either

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Speaker 1: you're breaking or getting ready for the next thing.

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Speaker 2: But I reached out to you and you said yes,

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Speaker 2: So thank you.

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Speaker 1: I just want to say thanks, happy to be Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I start this podcast by giving everybody their flowers.

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Speaker 1: That's how I like to start these things. H that

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Speaker 1: is pretty easy to do with you, sir, Thank you,

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Speaker 1: Thank you. When I think of you and your career,

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Speaker 1: and I've known you for a little bit now, but

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Speaker 1: mostly as a fan from the outside, there's two words

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Speaker 1: that come to mind that I think we're strengthened during

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Speaker 1: this whole Center's run.

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Speaker 2: Clarity and grace.

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Speaker 1: Do those words mean thing to you as far as

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Speaker 1: as far as connecting to who you are, what I was,

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Speaker 1: what I was going to say to you before in

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Speaker 1: response to those two words, In response to hearing you

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Speaker 1: say that.

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Speaker 3: Those two you associate those two words phrases with me,

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Speaker 3: The first most important thing I can say to you

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Speaker 3: is whatever words you would use to describe me, or

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Speaker 3: any words that you use that resonates for you when

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Speaker 3: you think about me is entirely your choice. Given if

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Speaker 3: you use you've chosen those two words. I will say that, yes,

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Speaker 3: those two words make a lot of sense as applied

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Speaker 3: to myself. Inasmuch as I guess every other, as with

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Speaker 3: every other human being on the on the planet, I

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Speaker 3: try to be as clear as I can, not only

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Speaker 3: in terms of how I articulate for myself, but also

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Speaker 3: in terms of the choices that I make, and certainly

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Speaker 3: in terms of the professional choices that I make. So

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Speaker 3: that's one thing grace, So that applies to clarity, right

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Speaker 3: being clear. As far as grace is concerned, let me

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Speaker 3: just say this, I consider that to be a huge

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Speaker 3: compliment comal.

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Speaker 1: Because we all all human beings, we need to exhibit grace,

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Speaker 1: and particular well, we need to exhibit grace.

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Speaker 2: We need to.

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Speaker 1: Extend grace however and wherever we can.

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Speaker 3: But I would say, particularly in the America that we're

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Speaker 3: living in currently, who we all are in relationship to

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Speaker 3: the world at large that we're living in, the ability

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Speaker 3: to receive and to extend grace however and wherever we

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Speaker 3: can I would say it's critical, So thank you for that.

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Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate that, and I guess I don't got

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Speaker 1: to push too hard to talk about the outside world here,

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Speaker 1: So I appreciate you connecting it to the outside world

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Speaker 1: because I do think that the more grace those of

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Speaker 1: us who who understand that things should be different and

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Speaker 1: could be different.

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Speaker 2: A big part of that is grace. Very a huge

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Speaker 2: part of that is grace.

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Speaker 3: And you're a parent, I'm a parent, and to the

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Speaker 3: extent that we can try and instill that in our

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Speaker 3: children is a critical part of child raising. Raising our kids,

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Speaker 3: particularly in a in such a challenging set of circumstances,

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Speaker 3: the challenging aspects of the world that we're living in

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Speaker 3: right now.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, especially raising these black kids all day long,

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Speaker 1: all day long, all day long.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: Has that have those two words always been a part

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Speaker 1: of who you are? Were you raised with those two

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Speaker 1: words aware of that? The importance of clarity and grace?

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Speaker 1: Is it something that I feel like for most of us.

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Speaker 1: The moment we first saw you on screen in Malcolm

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Speaker 1: X Malcolm, those two things were quite clear. Oh wow,

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Speaker 1: Like I think those were very and there has not

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Speaker 1: been a moment since then where I've thought, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: that he was just acting that guy.

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Speaker 2: That's who he is. Man.

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Speaker 4: I always I always appreciate, I always have an extra

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Speaker 4: appreciation when anybody mentions Malcolm X and West Indian Archie.

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Speaker 1: For a whole variety of reasons, comal fundamentally, I'm so

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Speaker 1: incredibly proud of that work of that film and my

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Speaker 1: contribution to it.

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Speaker 2: It was.

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Speaker 3: A jumping off point for the beginning of my work

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Speaker 3: as a film actor after essentially ten years of working

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Speaker 3: as a theater actor in New York.

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Speaker 1: I saw that on your on your on your filmography

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Speaker 1: that there was a there was a ten year gap,

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Speaker 1: and I thought, like, you know, please keep going. I

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Speaker 1: wonder if you went into that going like kind of

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Speaker 1: like an athlete who's like, oh, I need to show

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Speaker 1: up and do this to sort of prove I can

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Speaker 1: be here.

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Speaker 2: No, that's interesting. That's interesting.

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Speaker 3: So it was not a ten year gap, And you've

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Speaker 3: actually unintentionally raised something that I want to address. And

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Speaker 3: it's completely unintentional on your part, and that is because

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Speaker 3: you refer to it as a gap. And early on,

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Speaker 3: as I started working as a film actor after having

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Speaker 3: worked in the theater. Early on, somehow on the Internet

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Speaker 3: it started being referred.

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Speaker 2: To as a gap that I had taken a gap. No.

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Speaker 3: No, the way it was phrased in the and I'm

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Speaker 3: not sure how it is now IMDb or whatever, because

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Speaker 3: I don't I don't get your ib No, I'm not,

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Speaker 3: but it seemed like that guy.

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Speaker 2: I'm not.

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Speaker 3: I'm not that guy, but I do remember. I do

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Speaker 3: recall that relatively early on, and it was the first

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Speaker 3: four or five years as as my film career was

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Speaker 3: taking off. Somehow this thing got on the internet.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he was working and then he took a gap,

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Speaker 1: then he took a break.

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Speaker 2: No. No.

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Speaker 3: Essentially, I had worked as a film sorry as a

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Speaker 3: theater actor for pretty much the first ten years of

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Speaker 3: my career as an actor. I was in New York,

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Speaker 3: a New York based theater actor. And then and I

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Speaker 3: did a couple of very small things in television. I

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Speaker 3: did a couple of small things in film. But it

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Speaker 3: was Malcolm X. To your point, it was Malcolm X

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Speaker 3: West Indian Archie in Malcolm X. That was was the

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Speaker 3: springboard for me as a as a as a film actor.

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Speaker 3: The clarity and the grace that you referred to as

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Speaker 3: it relates to West End in Art or my appearance

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Speaker 3: in Malcolm X. No, it was not a specific decision

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Speaker 3: that I made. I worked in the way that I

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Speaker 3: had worked in the theater and I kind of modified

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Speaker 3: it for my work in film, And whatever clarity you saw,

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Speaker 3: whatever resonated for you.

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Speaker 1: With my work as West n Narchie came about as

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Speaker 1: a result of just working in the way that I

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Speaker 1: had always worked. No, no, not always, but the way

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Speaker 1: that my working ethic had evolved from working in the theater,

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Speaker 1: and I applied that to the work that I did

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Speaker 1: on Western n Archie, and so whatever clarity that you

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Speaker 1: saw came about as a result of that.

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Speaker 3: As far as grace is concerned, I guess I would

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Speaker 3: say that I feel that audiences have extended grace towards me,

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Speaker 3: towards me in terms of how they have responded to.

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Speaker 1: My work as an actor over the years.

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Speaker 3: So that's where when I talk, when I speak about

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Speaker 3: my work, that's the context, context that I kind of

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Speaker 3: define grace in. In that context, well, so I'm happy

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Speaker 3: to hear that you have a special I don't put

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Speaker 3: the wrong words in your mouth, because I certainly didn't

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Speaker 3: mean to say job maybe sort of like because I

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Speaker 3: knew you were a theater actor and so I didn't

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Speaker 3: think you were like not working at all that time,

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Speaker 3: but your affection or your talk around West Indian archie.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know, if you know.

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Speaker 1: For many years I had a podcast with a friend

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Speaker 1: of mine that was solely focused on the work of

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Speaker 1: Denzel Washington.

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Speaker 2: I I did not know that.

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Speaker 1: So it was a podcast that the title was, which

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Speaker 1: is weard to say in front of acclaimed actors like yourself,

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Speaker 1: Denzel Washington is the greatest actor of all time period.

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Speaker 2: It was the name of the podcast.

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Speaker 1: We named it that because we were me and my

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Speaker 1: friend Kevin were felt like Denzel. This was back in

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Speaker 1: the like pre this is like ten years ago when

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Speaker 1: we had it, and we felt.

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Speaker 3: In ten years as in around twenty sixteen. Yeah, at

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Speaker 3: the beginning of his film career.

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Speaker 2: No no, no, no.

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Speaker 1: We didn't start it until twenty sixteen, and then we

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Speaker 1: sort of every week we would review a Denzel Washington film.

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Speaker 1: Question yeah, no, you finished, and then I have a question, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So every week you would review review Denzel film and

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Speaker 1: bring guests on to talk about his career as a

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Speaker 1: pinpoint to like, we feel like he was not he

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Speaker 1: wasn't getting enough respect. Yes, broadly, amen, And so we

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Speaker 1: sort of wanted to put a tent pull in the sand.

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Speaker 1: But then when you talked about in Hollywood talked about

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Speaker 1: the greatest actors, they tended to be white guys. Not

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Speaker 1: that those guys aren't good actors. We just felt like,

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Speaker 1: we want to give this dude again his flowers, yes,

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Speaker 1: while he's here. And it was a way for black

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Speaker 1: actors to come on and talk about the struggles of

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Speaker 1: being black actor generally. And we talked about black Hollywood,

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Speaker 1: but the rallying point was around Denzel Washington.

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Speaker 2: I love that I did not know you so.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, obviously, if you're talking about Denzel

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Speaker 1: Washington's career, the movie Malcolm X comes up a lot,

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Speaker 1: you know, and absolutely, and if you're talking about Malcolm X,

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Speaker 1: you don't get too far deep into the conversation about

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Speaker 1: Malcolm X until you come up you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: as far as that, as far as that. So that's

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Speaker 1: why when I so, I've talked a lot about you

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Speaker 1: and that performance, I'm happy to talk to you about

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Speaker 1: it a little bit. I was like, maybe he doesn't

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Speaker 1: want to talk about it, but you open the window

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Speaker 1: for me. So before we do that, I gotta talk

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Speaker 1: about Denzel for a second. I'm not going to interrupt

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Speaker 1: that conversation. Yes, Denzel Washington in the last.

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Speaker 3: Three and a half months has done me a huge

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Speaker 3: favorite personally inasmuch as in the Oscar campaign associated sinners,

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Speaker 3: Denzel elected made the choice to do a one on

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Speaker 3: one conversation with me and whomever it is who's in

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Speaker 3: within the sound of my voice so it can see me.

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Speaker 3: Right now, you have to know that Denzel Washington does

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Speaker 3: not do that as a general rule.

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Speaker 1: Now, we we talked about the podcast, like he seems

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Speaker 1: he's a guy who shows up, does the work, goes home,

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Speaker 1: right and sort of when there's an when there's an

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Speaker 1: award to be given, he'll show up and take the

400
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Speaker 1: award or give the award to somebody else.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's not.

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Speaker 1: It's not about the it's not about the glitz and glamor.

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Speaker 1: It's about the word work.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so for Denzel to do that for me, uh

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Speaker 1: was and is huge for sure. So that speaks to

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Speaker 1: an area an aspect of his generosity that he was

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Speaker 1: extending to me in that instance, in that moment, because

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Speaker 1: he understood as a fellow actor, a fellow creative worker

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Speaker 1: inside the institution of Hollywood, he understood how important it

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Speaker 1: might be for me, and he extended himself for me

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Speaker 1: in that instance, which is gargantuan.

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Speaker 3: Okay, just on the respect rick to scale if you will,

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Speaker 3: it's way up there. Okay, all right. So that's one

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Speaker 3: thing as it relates to Denzel's breadth of work.

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Speaker 1: As an actor, as a creative force, I really tipped

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Speaker 1: my hat to yourself and your colleague for choosing to identify,

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Speaker 1: first of all, identifying that you feel, hmm, this cat's

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Speaker 1: not quite getting the flouls he deserves. And I really

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Speaker 1: tipped my hat to you in that regard.

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Speaker 3: Secondly, and I didn't hear any of the podcasts that

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Speaker 3: you did, but.

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Speaker 2: If you're telling me that each of.

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Speaker 1: The podcasts focused on a particular film that Denzil had done,

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Speaker 1: I would then assume that in doing so, you saw

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Speaker 1: the breadth.

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Speaker 3: Of the work of his work as an actor. Now,

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Speaker 3: when one starts to assess Denzel Washington's work as an actor,

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Speaker 3: I think it's very critical to acknowledge that his work

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Speaker 3: as an actor, particularly when he first started into the

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Speaker 3: first fifteen years of his career. It was through the

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Speaker 3: lens of his being a movie star. Yeah, that's critical

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Speaker 3: because what I saw with Denzel from Afar was it

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Speaker 3: he was still electing to do work in which he

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Speaker 3: could show his range as an actor. He wasn't being

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Speaker 3: Denzel Washington as many movies as certain movie starts doing that.

437
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 3: And I'm not criticizing that.

438
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:25,400
Speaker 2: No.

439
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,680
Speaker 1: No, there's a type of leading, leading man, leading lady

440
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 1: who the industry pays to show up and be themselves

441
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: all that just do the thing that we all want

442
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: to see and that the audience is are paying and

443
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: it is built on that. There's no shame in that.

444
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 1: There is no shame in it. It's hard to be

445
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 1: consistent like that. And that's not what he did. That's

446
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 1: not my perception of what he did.

447
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 3: So I really I appreciate I tipped my hat to you,

448
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 3: and I appreciate that you chose to examine his work

449
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 3: as an actor from that standpoint.

450
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

451
00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:04,640
Speaker 3: All right, then too, specifically relating to Malcolm X and

452
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 3: West Indian Archie, Denzel and I had gone to school together.

453
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 3: We studied at the American Conservatory Theater in San Francisco,

454
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 3: albeit that he left after the first year and I

455
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 3: stayed an extra another, an additional year two years. But

456
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 3: Malcolm X was to be the first time we were

457
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:31,159
Speaker 3: working together professionally, and that was a thrill. Now I

458
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 3: say that all these years after the fact, because the

459
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 3: enjoyment and the thrill of our working together was nothing

460
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 3: that we ever discussed.

461
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 1: Oh man, in this great we're working together. We just

462
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 1: did our work. But absolutely the fact that he and

463
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: I had been students together was part of the enjoyment.

464
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 1: And I remember before Malcolm X was released, he called me.

465
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 2: And he said.

466
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 3: Words to the effect. And I'm paraphraser, but he said

467
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 3: words to the effect.

468
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 2: Man.

469
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 3: I just came from seeing the screening of the film.

470
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 3: This was before the film was released. I just came

471
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 3: from seeing his screen the screening of the film, and

472
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 3: he said, you're.

473
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 2: Going to be happy. Man.

474
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: That's beautiful. It is beautiful. That's beautiful. That's not not

475
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: You're going to be a star. Know that that That

476
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: actually isn't it? That is that part of it is

477
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 1: a quote. He said, You're going to be happy.

478
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

479
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,679
Speaker 1: That like you You did the You showed up and

480
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 1: did the work and it's reflected on the in the film.

481
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that was I don't remember how I responded

482
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 3: in the specific I maybe saying thank you man, I

483
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 3: appreciate that man, something like that. But seeing the film

484
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 3: and your retrospective Lee acknowledging and recognizing the impact not

485
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 3: only of the film, but the impact my contribution to

486
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 3: the film made, I have an added appreciation for his

487
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 3: having made that call to me that.

488
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 2: He thought enough to Again, you're talking about he doesn't

489
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 2: need to do that. You can just wait for you

490
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 2: to see the film. That's right.

491
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: You can decide on your own if you like it,

492
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: that's right. But the fact that he's generous enough to

493
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: know I want you to know almost to sort of

494
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 1: get prepared, be like, you don't have to be worried.

495
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 2: It's in there. We got it.

496
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: It's in the thing. It's in there. So then too.

497
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 3: And this is absolutely not something that I've discussed, ever

498
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 3: discussed with Denzel, but it's intriguing to me. And I

499
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 3: don't know what your various podcast guests what their take

500
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 3: on this was.

501
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: We had we had a wide range of a lot

502
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: of young up and coming black actors. Actually, we had

503
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: a director who had just directed a movie about Apollo

504
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: Creed's son. We had Ryan on after Creed, whoa but

505
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: like and the day that he was on was the

506
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 1: day the story broke that he was directing The Black Panther,

507
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: and so like like there's.

508
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 2: All these connections. That was synchronicity. And I hadn't met

509
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 2: him until that point. I lived here, you know.

510
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 1: It was just all this stuff and so to think that, Like, so,

511
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: we had a lot of like actors who are sort

512
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: of younger actors who were coming up. We had Spike

513
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: leeon at one point to talk, which we talked would

514
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: so but yeah, it was.

515
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 2: It was a beautiful thing.

516
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 1: And we keep talking about maybe even bringing it back

517
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: in some form because I.

518
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 3: Wish you would. Well I'm sorry, I'm interrupting you. I

519
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 3: wish you would. And I'll tell you why.

520
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: I wish you would, Okay, and I'll tell you why

521
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: because we as creative workers, throughout the length and the

522
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: breadth of the industry, we need to hear from me

523
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: each other. We need to be able to commiserate with

524
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: each other.

525
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,479
Speaker 3: We need to be able to support, to give our

526
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 3: flowers to when necessary, to critique each other as long

527
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 3: as it's constructive.

528
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: Because there's not enough of that for us in this environment.

529
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 3: And speaking of Ryan, Ryan Coogler, Ryan Coopler, my man,

530
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 3: my man. Somebody said a friend of mine said to

531
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 3: me last night, just last night, he said, you.

532
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: Think you work with Ryan again? And I said, man,

533
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: I hope someone.

534
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 2: He's got my number.

535
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 3: I got my number. But hearing Ryan talk about Malcolm

536
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 3: X and talk about West Indian OIG and the fact

537
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 3: that his pops took him to see Malcolm X and

538
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 3: the impact of the film and the impact that I

539
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 3: made on him, And so every time Ryan talks about that,

540
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 3: it's really moving to me. But what it is, what

541
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 3: it is, what it points up to me, what it

542
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 3: illustrates is the importance. And this is another reason why

543
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 3: I want you to to restart your podcast. The importance

544
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 3: of the continuum, The importance of a continuum for all

545
00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 3: of us as creative workers, and how we need to

546
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 3: hear from each other, how we need to recognize acknowledge

547
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 3: each other on that continuum.

548
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 2: Does that make sense? Yeah? Sure, listen.

549
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: So next week and this is not this is not

550
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: name dropping, No, it's really not. Next week, I'm going

551
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: to Los Angeles to present an award to Morgan Freeman.

552
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 3: Listen, let me say this to you. I was invited

553
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 3: to do this. I was asked to do this now.

554
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 3: Of course, as soon as I my rip sent me

555
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 3: the email the letter, and I said, of course, I'll

556
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 3: do this. I don't know Morgan Freeman. Morgan and I have.

557
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 3: I've met the man briefly, and I mean briefly. I

558
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 3: was going into a building and he was coming out

559
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 3: of the building. Hey, how you doing respect?

560
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 2: Respect?

561
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 3: It's literally that. But that's completely beside the point, for sure,

562
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 3: because the point is for me. The point is for

563
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 3: me to be gifted the opportunity to present something to Morgan.

564
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 3: When I think about that in terms of the continuum

565
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 3: that I'm talking about, it's an opportunity for me to

566
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 3: publicly extend and give him his flowers, to publicly acknowledge

567
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 3: what this man's career has meant to me. And I

568
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 3: mean what I mean when I say what his career

569
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 3: has meant to me. This is what I mean. Morgan

570
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 3: as a New York based actor. Morgan was in New

571
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 3: York when I was in New York. Albeit he was,

572
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 3: you know, his career was a little further along, sure,

573
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 3: But I know, he comes from the theater in New York,

574
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 3: evolving developing into a creative worker who then has a

575
00:31:53,360 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 3: major film career. And what that means to me as

576
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 3: a slightly younger person viewing that, respecting that feeling that

577
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 3: I have an understanding of what it takes to sustain that,

578
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 3: and it's nothing but.

579
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: Respect, respect, respect, respect, respect, all the way down the

580
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: line for that achievement, that professional achievement. And now I

581
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: am gifted an opportunity to present him an award.

582
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 2: Of course I'll do it, of course, of course.

583
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: So you know, as it relates to you're saying you're

584
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: thinking about stunning your podcast again, I say to you, God,

585
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: do it, do it, do it, Because when I think

586
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: about something like this in terms of what the potential

587
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: is to invigorate further the continuum, it's kind of sort

588
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: of critical. I think of it, as you say, continuum.

589
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: I often thinking of it as like, how like the

590
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,719
Speaker 1: and I mean, this is the best the chain of command,

591
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: like sort of the fact that we're all connected, we're

592
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: all connected, connect And I think that one thing that

593
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: America does, especially black folks, is break the chain of command,

594
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: no question, destroy in many ways, the black nucleus, the

595
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: black family, the black neighborhood, the black downtown.

596
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 3: In the black filtraits, and infiltrate, there's all this infiltration

597
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 3: that disperses and destroys.

598
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 2: That's that's a great point.

599
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: And I've talked about how as a kid grown up,

600
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: because I was I was in shit. Well this is

601
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: knowing you. My favorite band was Living Color. Check you out? Yeah,

602
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: So I would go to the world check you out?

603
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah.

604
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: I mean so I was the black kid going to

605
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: see Living Color, and I often would say there'd be

606
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: more black people on stage than out in the crowd.

607
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 2: Yes, And I would see another black guy cross the room.

608
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: I mean my Kevin Avery my Coast, my podcast talking

609
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: about this because he was in the same way where

610
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: it's almost like are we best friends or do I

611
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: hate him? You know what I mean? Like, because I

612
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: don't know, are we cool? We're the only two black

613
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: people here. But there's something about how America that I

614
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: don't know that I.

615
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 3: May ask you something, let me answer you something, because

616
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 3: I actually was not expecting you to say that. I

617
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 3: thought you were going to say, you see another black

618
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 3: person at a rock concert? Yeah, most of the audience

619
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 3: is white. And there's and there's an immediate identification, but

620
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 3: that's not that's not way. Yeah, so tell me about that.

621
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 3: Tell me about there's a way.

622
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: In which uh and I went to private schools, my

623
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: comedy specials called private called Negro that I think white supremacy.

624
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: When you're the one of the few black people around

625
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: whispers in your ear, you're special, absolutely, and then when

626
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: you see this black person, wait a minute, only one

627
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: of us can be special, yes, and so instead of

628
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,879
Speaker 1: like a man running over to embrace that person, he's

629
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: your competition, he's your yeah, sort of like potentially your competition.

630
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: And me and Kevin Who's the Close podcast? When we

631
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: met as comics in the barrier, one of the and

632
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: we were in the main stream clubs a lot two

633
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: of those few black comedians of the matrim clubs. I

634
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: had that tension with him. I thought he had it

635
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 1: with me, Ladies, like I didn't have that with you,

636
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: but I had this like and we've become great friends,

637
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: you know whatever, But like that's now. Yeah, that's another

638
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:14,959
Speaker 1: reason why you must present a platform, in this case

639
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: your podcast. You must create a platform where those kinds

640
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: of things can be deconstructed. Yes, we need that for

641
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: our emotional, our psychological, our cultural, our socio political health.

642
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: We all need that. Yes, well, I hear you and

643
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: I and that's funny. I didn't think I would tell

644
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 1: you that story. But the thing about this podcast is

645
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: it is what it's supposed to be.

646
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 2: Yeah. Amen, And now it gives.

647
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:50,319
Speaker 1: Me an addition gun man. It's giving me an additional perspective.

648
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: On the night we were all at my house, you

649
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: Will Will from Living Color drummer Will Will Calhoun, Will Calhoun,

650
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: the drummer for in Living Color, who's a brilliant musician,

651
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 1: a fierce, fierce, fierce artist.

652
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,959
Speaker 2: And you were there. I was there. Uh, my wife

653
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 2: was there. Thank you to your wife, national mate. You

654
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 2: made me.

655
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 3: Let me have some food, we cooked, we ate. Anita

656
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 3: was there, Will's friend, Anita.

657
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. And Danny Danny. Can we say his last name?

658
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 2: We can?

659
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 3: Danny Glover, Danny Glover, my dude, Danny Glover. And I think, God,

660
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 3: I hope I'm not making this up. Did my son

661
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 3: come in?

662
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 2: Yeah?

663
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. My son Demiri, who.

664
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 3: Is currently playing professional basketball in Europe and I'm hugely.

665
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 2: Proud of him.

666
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 3: He came in so talking about if not a continuum.

667
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 3: Certainly we're talking about into generational what it is a

668
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 3: continuing It was continuous, Yeah, but that kind of And

669
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 3: I remember we had this really wide ranging conversation that night.

670
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:16,919
Speaker 2: About a range of things. Yeah.

671
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: So I guess we're agreeing that we all need we

672
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: all need each other, yes, and we all need to

673
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: know that we're not the only ones thinking about these

674
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 1: things and that people who we make Because I have

675
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 1: to say, like Will texting me that night, and first

676
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: of all, I'm still, like, you know, I'm still the

677
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: place where it blows my mind that Will Calhoun is

678
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 1: texting me, just as the first teed to see him

679
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: at the concert, and that was in him and Vernon

680
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: and all and Corey and Doug. Now now I'm friends

681
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: with them to some extent or another. And that Will

682
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: would text me, go, Ham at Delroy's house, do you

683
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 1: want to come over? And I did everything but turn

684
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: a table over. I really I do you want to

685
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 1: be there? And then just because the idea of like,

686
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: and I knew you lived in oak which we can

687
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 1: talk about that later, just the Oakland of this all.

688
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 1: But and people would often say to me, you know,

689
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: Darrel Lindo lives around here, and I'm like, okay, and

690
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: people would say to me like, do you do you know? No,

691
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,959
Speaker 1: we do all know each other. It's again like there's

692
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: an assumption and im and I'm not trying to stalk.

693
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to find him. You know, you remember

694
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: the first time we met?

695
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 2: I don't. I I don't. It's a funny story. Okay,

696
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 2: now I want you to tell a story.

697
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 3: But what I do recall the night you came to

698
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 3: my house was the first time we kind of yeah,

699
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 3: that was the first time we really talked, we.

700
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: Really talked, But when did we first meet? I uh so,

701
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: I'd heard you lived around and I was like, and

702
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: one day I was walking down the street this I

703
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: think it was middle of COVID and a car pulls

704
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: up with you and another actor in the car and

705
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: you yell out.

706
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 2: Come out it was Michael T. Williams. Y, yes it was.

707
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: And I was like, it's like a car that pulls

708
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: up behind me on a street where nobody's on it

709
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: because it's COVID time. I think it was, you know,

710
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: in that area, and I hear my and I and

711
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 1: I feel the car up, like, hey, what's happening here.

712
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 2: Then I hear my name.

713
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:04,919
Speaker 1: I look over to know I'm not having any idea

714
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: it's gonna be and it's you and Michael T.

715
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 2: Williams. Yes, I do remember that. These brothers who I am.

716
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was brief, but it was but it

717
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: was random. Yeah, random. But but you know what, man, here,

718
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: here's the thing. You mentioned your stand up comedy, and

719
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: I said to you, I've actually never seen your stand

720
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 1: up comedy. I've never seen your stand up act. And

721
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: now I'm thinking about, Okay, what's my reference for Camal Bell. Well,

722
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: I'll tell you, man, my one of my references is

723
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: the A C l U commercial.

724
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,879
Speaker 3: Commercials that you would do on MSNBC. And I used

725
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 3: to be a huge MSNBC junkie. I was a complete

726
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 3: junkie and I would see you there and I think

727
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 3: on many levels that kind of sort of was my

728
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:03,879
Speaker 3: Camal Bill.

729
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: I mean, it's funny, that's funny to think that that's yours.

730
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 1: That's a lot of people's like, yeah, I those commercials

731
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 1: have been running for years now, and I'm happy to

732
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: I'm And basically he tells me that they actually work,

733
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: like people donate and so like all I did was

734
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: show up at Oakland Hill Studio. And I've worked with

735
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: the A c LU for years, so that that's that's.

736
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 3: So so in that regard, and I'm sure you've you've

737
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 3: heard this in the past.

738
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 2: A did.

739
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 3: There is the fact that there is that there is

740
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 3: specific a c l U connection housed in the MSNBC universe,

741
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 3: which I know that it's now ms n now, ms now, yeah,

742
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 3: ms now, but it was housed in that MSNBC which

743
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 3: was a whole.

744
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:59,280
Speaker 1: Environment, a whole perspective, whole sort of belief system, belief system.

745
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 3: So that that said more and more about you, and

746
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,760
Speaker 3: that probably is what prompted me to say come.

747
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 2: Out like I knew you when I really didn't.

748
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's funny. Whatever my thing is, people

749
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: feel like they know me, and I sayes, I feel

750
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 1: okay with that because that's everything I'm doing. I'm not

751
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,399
Speaker 1: an actor, so I'm just being myself. So I feel

752
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: like at least I put the right thing out there.

753
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: Did put the right thing out there. And here's what

754
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: it is, as as I'm thinking about this now, it's

755
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,760
Speaker 1: an awareness or an acknowledgment of what you represent.

756
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:34,879
Speaker 2: That fair, that's fair.

757
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: I was about to knop my head, and I'm like, no,

758
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to sick, I'm not supposed to. Yes, I

759
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:43,839
Speaker 1: am happy with what I represent to people because I

760
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 1: tend to find the people who like me like me

761
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: for the right reasons.

762
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 2: Amen, which I feel like.

763
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: It's like and I know people who are famous and

764
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: people who are doing who. There's a disconnect between who

765
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 1: the public things they are. Not necessarily that they're a

766
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: bad person, but disconnect disconnect, and it's sort of like

767
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: means that you meet people they're sort of coming at

768
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 1: you for one thing, and you're like, I'm not really

769
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: that where I feel like, no, generally I'm that thing.

770
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:05,399
Speaker 2: I am.

771
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: A friend of mine, a very good friend of mine,

772
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: just last night said to me, and I gotta, I

773
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: gotta actually.

774
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 2: Asking what do you mean by that? Man?

775
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 3: But no, what he said. What he said was, and

776
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 3: again I'm paraphrasing, but we were talking about the campaign

777
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 3: that I've just concluded, and he was talking about the

778
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 3: fact he felt he feels that whether I got that

779
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 3: statue or not, I still won. And he said to me, no, man,

780
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 3: your profile, the fact that people got to see you

781
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 3: as you as me, yes, huge, He said, every.

782
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 1: Talk show appearance, you did, every every view Jennifer Hudson. Yeah,

783
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 1: that we didn't see the guy who hadn't been in

784
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: front of us like that before.

785
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 3: That's kind of sort of what he said. Yeah, and

786
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 3: then he said, and this is the part that I

787
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 3: want to I want to go back and say, what

788
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 3: do you mean by that?

789
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 2: Man? He said?

790
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 1: And then he said, no, the parts that you've done.

791
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 3: The various roles that you've played, don't necessarily reflect this.

792
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 3: And I'm saying, well, right, because I'm acting, because I'm

793
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 3: playing a character. And then he said the closest and

794
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 3: again I'm paraphrasing. Sure, he referenced a character Adrian Boseman

795
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:32,359
Speaker 3: in The Good Fight.

796
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, but his point was.

797
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: Many audiences have never seen you like that, just the

798
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: same thing you just said, they've never seen you in

799
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,839
Speaker 1: that in those kinds of contexts. Yeah, and I yeah,

800
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 1: I would have to fair. I mean, I feel like,

801
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,359
Speaker 1: I mean, this is the thing for people like you know,

802
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: Ryan's age and older. I think the breath of your

803
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 1: career and what we've seen adds up to Like when

804
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 1: I met you, I was like, yeah, that's yes, I'm

805
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 1: not nothing. He's doing is surprising me. This seems like

806
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 1: the guy when you sort of judge even though you're acting,

807
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 1: you're not Delta Slim, you're not Western Archie. But there's

808
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 1: a thing that is that is consistent through all of

809
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: those things that when I met you, I was like,

810
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 1: this is exactly what I was. This is exactly not

811
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: what I would expect him to be, what I was

812
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 1: hoping he would be. You know what I mean that

813
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 1: it's like the clarity and grace of the of the

814
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 1: work comes through the human being.

815
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 2: No, I understand. So that like, even though I.

816
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 1: Don't think you're gonna like, uh, you know, uh pull

817
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: a gun at me, like Western and Archie or question, Yeah,

818
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: what about this? This really fascinates the hell out of me. Man,

819
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: what about a cat like Rodney Little in Clockers? I

820
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 1: don't know if you've seen Clocke, Yeah for sure. Okay,

821
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: So what about a cat like Rodney Little? And I

822
00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: raised that. I raised Rodney in particular because because on

823
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 1: his face, on the surface, Rodney is nothing like me. Right,

824
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:12,720
Speaker 1: And I've talked about this and I've actually written about

825
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 1: this how I approached playing that part because reading Richard

826
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: Price's novel clock of the same name Clockers. Rodney is

827
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: nothing like me and when and this is where I

828
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: think I will I'll always appreciate Spike because he saw

829
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: that in me. He saw after West nd NRG and

830
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 1: after what he Carmichael in Crooklyn, he saw he saw

831
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: me clearly enough to believe that I could play Rodney,

832
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 1: a cat who on the surface was so different from

833
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:57,280
Speaker 1: how I present.

834
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 3: And I remember at the time when I told people

835
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,800
Speaker 3: I was doing this film Clockers with Spike, people thought.

836
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 3: I remember very specifically having a couple of conversations with

837
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,879
Speaker 3: people who thought I would be playing the Keith David part,

838
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 3: the part of the social worker.

839
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 2: In the project.

840
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, the guy who the guy,

841
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 1: the guy who cares.

842
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 2: Who cares?

843
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 3: He's trying to help these kids, You try to help

844
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 3: the families, et cetera. Spike, Spike Lee Man, I saw,

845
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 3: now you can do this and I had to work.

846
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: I had to work at it. And what do you

847
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:39,720
Speaker 1: think about it made you?

848
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:39,800
Speaker 2: What?

849
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: What was so different about that character? I'm saying I

850
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,399
Speaker 1: can say what I think, but what are you for you?

851
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: What was different?

852
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 2: Like?

853
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 1: What about that character? You feel like, oh, this is

854
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: this is different that it would be a stretch for me.

855
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 3: A great character, I mean, a great party, meaty, meaty part,

856
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 3: but it would be a stretch. I would have to

857
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 3: stretch myself and challenge myself to bring Rodney to life

858
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 3: in a way that would be believable for audiences where

859
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 3: they wouldn't say, I'm man, man, I'm not quite believing that, bro,

860
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 3: And I want to say that.

861
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 1: I'm proud that it worked. And Richard Price, the novelist,

862
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 1: the person who had written the novel, said to me,

863
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 1: and I hope Richard sees this or hear's this, because Richard,

864
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 1: when you said to me, he said words to the effect,

865
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: he said words to the effect that he had never

866
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: seen one of his characters brought to life in cinema

867
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: on film the way I had done it. Now, my god,

868
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: my god, what more could I ask for? I mean,

869
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 1: Spike was and I knew Spike was happy. Yeah, but

870
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 1: you'd already worked. You had a relationship. I had a

871
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:10,399
Speaker 1: relationship with Spike. I knew he was. The Richard saying that,

872
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, Rodney had come from his mind,

873
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,359
Speaker 1: from his imagination, and he had, of course, he would

874
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: have had an idea of He's picturing that person in

875
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: his head where he wants to or not yes, and

876
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 1: then you come out from over here you could be

877
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: not what he's wanting. That's right, see the thinning you

878
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 1: say that, like, I think that this is true often

879
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 1: of artists. Your audience maybe has a more is more

880
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: aware of your skills than you are. Maybe you think

881
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: here because here's why say, because we're taking back to

882
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 1: West Indian Archie. The thing that makes that character so

883
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,359
Speaker 1: incredible as an actor and I is that.

884
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 2: Some people can.

885
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 1: Play the cool Harlem hips the you know, the the

886
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: crime boss who's like who's slick and clean and immaculate.

887
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 1: Some people can play the older version of Ostendian Archie

888
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 1: in the in the apartment, surrounded by filth, who's lost

889
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: his ability to sort of control his body functions and

890
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 1: is clearly suffering, suffering on many levels. Can hard is

891
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 1: a hard time speaking. The fact that we as an

892
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 1: audience saw you do both of those things in that

893
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:42,760
Speaker 1: one role.

894
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 2: Meant we went, oh, this dude can do anything.

895
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: Like I mean, I just think god like because I

896
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: remember being in the theater and like I said, so

897
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 1: let's think about the audience and people who watch that

898
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:56,760
Speaker 1: movie we we came for Denzel.

899
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and no question.

900
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody who wasn't alive for that can understand.

901
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 1: Spike Lee marketed that film like a superheroine. Oh my god,

902
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 1: like the X caps.

903
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:10,320
Speaker 2: Yep. It was like Spikes and marketing genes, and he marketed.

904
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: Like and I think Batman was like the first super

905
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 1: was really marketed like you saw Batman everywhere. Spikeley, I'm

906
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 1: gonna do that. I'm gonna market this like it's a shoe,

907
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: like it's a Nike shoe. It was everywhere, X shirts.

908
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:22,399
Speaker 2: X caps. So we went.

909
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 1: We were all black folks were like ready, this was

910
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:26,839
Speaker 1: I don't know when it came out, but it felt

911
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 1: like a big summer movie.

912
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:28,800
Speaker 2: It felt like yes.

913
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: And so we sit down and opens and you know,

914
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 1: where do you sit in New York? I saw in Chicago?

915
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 1: In Chicago? It was definitely Chicago. Okay, So like in

916
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: the Hyde Park is where I saw it on the

917
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: South side of Chicago, and so you see it and

918
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 1: also it's like it's so like Spike Lee were the

919
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,320
Speaker 1: Rodney King footage is at the beginning, yep. So we're

920
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: in it, Denzel at that point, maybe white Hollywood didn't.

921
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 1: Black people didn't know, but black people like, that's our guy, ye,

922
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,839
Speaker 1: Denzel's other thing. And then you show up and you

923
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:02,879
Speaker 1: go toe to toe with him, and at that point

924
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 1: we didn't know who you were.

925
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 2: Ship. I hope so you did. I was like, who

926
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 2: is this dude? Is just he's not blinking, He he's

927
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 2: not scared. I wasn't scared.

928
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,799
Speaker 1: Looks scared as a character in character as Detroit as

929
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:20,320
Speaker 1: Detroy ran at that point, he looked like he was

930
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: a little bit like, well, like if he's scared of him.

931
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: And so at that point we were like all on

932
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 1: board with you, and then you flipped the script and

933
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: suddenly it's like, I remember the when we see Western.

934
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 1: My wife said that happened in the movie theater.

935
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 2: My wife said exactly that.

936
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: And it wasn't about they didn't put a lot of

937
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,359
Speaker 1: make up. It's not like you had like it was

938
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 1: just I heard Spike was surprised that you didn't do.

939
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 2: That what you're gonna do?

940
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, true, all true that Spike didn't didn't know

941
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 1: what you were, didn't know what I was going to do.

942
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,439
Speaker 1: And so when you come on screen as Western Archie,

943
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 1: that second for the for the flip when he's now

944
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: Malcolm X. Yes, and he goes back to sort of

945
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: checking everybody and and the camera and the shot because

946
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 1: he was. It's a testament to Spike Lee's filmmaking that

947
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 1: he knew how to frame that shot.

948
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 2: Yes, And we're all like, and.

949
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 1: We met you like an hour before it's we were

950
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 1: saying you were the main character. And so to me

951
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 1: that moment, we were like, this guy went this actor,

952
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: This guy went toe to toe with Denzel. He's acting

953
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 1: his butt off and he's got range that we hadn't

954
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:25,839
Speaker 1: that we weren't aware, you know what I mean. Yeah,

955
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 1: that part was so great because again, let us know

956
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: this dude's capable of anything.

957
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 2: And so then at that point everybody room, they're like,

958
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 2: what's it, what's den write it down?

959
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 1: We didn't like, this is our guy, and we've been

960
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,800
Speaker 1: with you ever since. To connect that to then Sinners.

961
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:45,839
Speaker 1: When we see you in Sinners, that's our we're yes,

962
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:47,720
Speaker 1: thank you Ryan for putting him in this movie.

963
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,400
Speaker 2: It's like we were invested in your success.

964
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: And that it's not about Oh, I like that actor,

965
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 1: and that's why I want to say, your friend is

966
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: seeing we're now people are happy to get to know you.

967
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 1: I hate you because they've had this relationship with you

968
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: on character and on screen. But now we're sort of like,

969
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: feel like we know the guy whose son called him

970
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:09,319
Speaker 1: on the to tell him that he got there, or

971
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: the guy who's uh who's been married since the dawn

972
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 1: of time, which means a lot to us out here. Yes, yes, yes,

973
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 1: And and then a lot of people discover way he

974
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 1: lives here in Oakland.

975
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 2: You're right, right.

976
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 1: So that's the thing that when when that I feel

977
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: like is we are so happy for you that like,

978
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:31,799
Speaker 1: now what I have liked if you took home a trophy, Yes,

979
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 1: I would have.

980
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 2: Sure. Did I feel a type of way that you

981
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 2: didn't take home a trophy? Yes I did. Did I

982
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 2: tweet about it? Maybe? I did?

983
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 1: Uh, you know because I just I felt invest A

984
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,320
Speaker 1: lot of us did. Yes, But we don't think that

985
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 1: anything to do with you in your performance. We understand

986
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: that's over here. That's the thing. And as a black folks,

987
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 1: we know we we have to give you our flowers

988
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 1: personally because we can't trust it it's gonna come yes

989
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:54,359
Speaker 1: from So I just want to say thank you for that.

990
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:56,319
Speaker 1: Thank you.

991
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 2: There was no question in that.

992
00:53:57,640 --> 00:53:59,760
Speaker 1: I think I just just kind of excited talking about

993
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: what I've seen you do and why I don't see

994
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,319
Speaker 1: you as an actor who I'm I'm excited to is

995
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 1: down and see what you're up to.

996
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 2: But I'm not. I don't think we said, as black

997
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,240
Speaker 2: folks down to go is can he pull this off?

998
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 2: We don't think that. Thank you, because yeah, thank you,

999
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 2: thank you for that.

1000
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 1: Can we talk a little bit about the Oakland of

1001
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 1: it all? Sure, as I said, a lot of people

1002
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 1: discovered you lived you lived in Oakland through this last

1003
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 1: epic press run. Yeah, obviously you could live anywhere. Obviously,

1004
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 1: I'm sure your manager agents and be like, hey, why

1005
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 1: do you have moved down here to LA You can

1006
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 1: live in New York, but you've You've lived in Oakland

1007
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: a long time and I know you went to that.

1008
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 1: You lived in San Francis.

1009
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 2: As a kid. No.

1010
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:45,919
Speaker 3: I I studied at Samson, I studied the American Conservatory Theater.

1011
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 3: But you okay, okay again?

1012
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 2: So why why? Why Oakland? Why Oakland?

1013
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 3: When my wife and I, Nasham, we were ready to

1014
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:04,720
Speaker 3: leave New York, but not leave leave. Basically what happened

1015
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 3: was the winters in New York City of nineteen ninety five.

1016
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety six, New Yorkers were subjected to multiple

1017
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 3: major snowstorms. I don't remember now numerically, but it was

1018
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:25,800
Speaker 3: something like in nineteen ninety five, it was like seventeen

1019
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 3: major snowstorms. In nineteen ninety six it was something like twenty.

1020
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 3: I mean, it was a huge amount. And I was

1021
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 3: just we were just up there. I was New yorked out.

1022
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,760
Speaker 3: Now you're done. So since I had gone to school

1023
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:40,839
Speaker 3: out here in the Bay Area in San Francisco, and

1024
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:44,719
Speaker 3: we had friends out here who lived out here, it

1025
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:49,839
Speaker 3: was it the Bay Area was it seemed like a

1026
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 3: doable alternative.

1027
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 2: I wasn't.

1028
00:55:54,680 --> 00:56:00,400
Speaker 3: I couldn't quite get my head around or my mouth

1029
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 3: around articulating I am moving to Los Angeles. LA is

1030
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 3: not my city, no for sure. And so Oakland was

1031
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 3: a nice compromise. And at one of the q and

1032
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 3: as that we did for Sinners, uh Raphael Sadik, the

1033
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:28,839
Speaker 3: musical Brilliant, Brilliant Tony Tony Tony, Rafael mentioned that when

1034
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 3: he comes back here he is able to recharge, and

1035
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:39,320
Speaker 3: that really really really resonated for me. So Oakland, why Oakland,

1036
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:44,719
Speaker 3: I'm able to recharge my batteries here. I'm able to

1037
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:57,919
Speaker 3: live a relatively normal life here. I've always felt I've

1038
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 3: known this about myself since my years in New York.

1039
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 3: I've known this about myself. I never felt that Los Angeles,

1040
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 3: and this is even as a young actor. I just

1041
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 3: I never felt that Los Angeles would be good for me.

1042
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 3: My sensibility, the sensibility of the city of that town.

1043
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 3: I'd never I was never convinced it would.

1044
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 2: No, I knew.

1045
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 3: I knew it would not be a good match, a

1046
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 3: good and so living in the Bay Area, I was

1047
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:34,959
Speaker 3: close enough to LA when I needed to get there,

1048
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 3: when if I needed to get there, And thank god,

1049
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 3: I was fortunate enough that when I did move, when

1050
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 3: we did move to Oakland, which was in nineteen ninety six,

1051
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 3: November of nineteen ninety six.

1052
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 2: That's when I moved here in ninety seven, or check

1053
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 2: you out. I didn't realize.

1054
00:57:56,040 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, nineteen ninety six, my film career was just beginning

1055
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 3: to it was on an upward trajectory. So the feeling

1056
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 3: I had less and I also had a dynamic and

1057
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 3: incredible agent at the time, and so the feeling that, oh,

1058
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 3: I need to be in la if if I want

1059
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 3: to have a film career. I had that feeling less

1060
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 3: because things were starting, things were starting to p Yeah,

1061
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 3: that's right, And so I felt like I could afford

1062
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 3: to be here in the Bay Area, in Oakland, and

1063
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 3: that I wouldn't that my commercial career, my film career

1064
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 3: would not suffer too much. Now, having said that, have

1065
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 3: I paid a professional price for living in the Bay Area, Yes,

1066
00:58:50,480 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 3: inasmuch as I can identify three jobs that I did

1067
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 3: not get, one of which I really wanted because I

1068
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 3: was not in Los Angeles.

1069
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 2: Just because you couldn't, Okay, come by here real quick.

1070
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 1: And it was a combination of that, just come by

1071
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 1: real quick, we need to do such as like right now,

1072
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: we need to do and I wasn't there, but it

1073
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 1: was It wasn't only that. There were some other dynamics

1074
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 1: that play in the situation, but broadly speaking, in that

1075
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 1: in the particular instance that I'm referencing, but broadly I

1076
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 1: know that there were at least two other There were

1077
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 1: two other times when I lost out on jobs because

1078
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: I don't live in Los Angeles. But I use that

1079
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 1: word advisedly. I lost out. I use that word advisedly advisedly,

1080
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 1: because I believe the what I have gained overall from

1081
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 1: living here here is much more than I have lost

1082
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:09,520
Speaker 1: quote unquote, Oh, I should also say this canal, I

1083
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 1: have always maintained a place on the East Coast. I

1084
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 1: still have a place on the We still have a

1085
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 1: place on the East Coast. So I've always had the

1086
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 1: latitude and the ability to go back and forth between

1087
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 1: here in the Bay Area and and in my case

1088
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 1: the East Coast, New Jersey, just right out side of

1089
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:31,760
Speaker 1: New York City. So that balance has helped to make

1090
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 1: this Pokland work for me. Yeah, nobody's gonna hold it

1091
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 1: against you that you have a place on the East Coast.

1092
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 2: I want to be clear. We still we still claim you.

1093
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 1: Here, no questions, Yeah, no question But everything you said

1094
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 1: it's so strange and our careers are very different, is

1095
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 1: everything I would say about Oakland.

1096
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 2: I really hear you.

1097
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 1: I have there are things that I'm never going to

1098
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 1: be in certain types of things because I'm just not

1099
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:54,960
Speaker 1: down there. Yeah, I'm not down I'm not at the

1100
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 1: cool party, I'm at the opening. I'm not mixing and

1101
01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 1: rubbing shoulders with the people down there. I'm just there's

1102
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 1: just as I see other people in like, and I

1103
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 1: will go how come I'm not Oh, yes, right, I'm

1104
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 1: not in there. But raising three daughters up here, Yes,

1105
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 1: Having all these people I've known since ninety seven up here,

1106
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 1: feeling like I'm a part of the community vastly outweighs

1107
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 1: what I what I would have, what I would have

1108
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 1: gained by moving to LA. And I feel the same way.

1109
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 1: It's LA just wouldn't work for you. I always said

1110
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 1: if I moved to LA, I would be out of

1111
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 1: the business in a year.

1112
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 2: Like I would just be that.

1113
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 1: I would be a guy who's like whatever happened to him,

1114
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 1: and he'd run into me and I with my head

1115
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 1: down like, oh yeah, no, I gotta you know, I

1116
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 1: got a job.

1117
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1118
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 3: So listen, here's the other thing we want to but

1119
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:35,480
Speaker 3: I want to speak about very positively for Oakland the

1120
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 3: Bay Are and that is no Oakland Oakland.

1121
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 1: Oakley's got flavor, man, Yes, yes, that's the other part.

1122
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:45,080
Speaker 2: Oakan's got flavor. I don't sleep on it now.

1123
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 1: No, No, Oakland's got flavor.

1124
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 3: And it's got whatever that is, flavor that it's got

1125
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 3: whatever this, Yeah.

1126
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 1: It's got a lot of that. It's got a lot

1127
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, and you're not missing anything. I don't know,

1128
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:02,920
Speaker 1: so you're not missing there's nothing. You're missing the business,

1129
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 1: you might, but there's nothing. No culture, no culturally culture interesting.

1130
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 1: It's now look, we could we could all right, let

1131
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 1: me see how do I say this? Things could be better,

1132
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 1: Things could always definitely be better. And there are some

1133
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 1: very specific areas that.

1134
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:26,240
Speaker 3: You and I have talked about kind of informally where

1135
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:30,400
Speaker 3: things could be better. But a one could say that

1136
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:34,800
Speaker 3: probably probably about any city in any major metropolis in

1137
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:38,920
Speaker 3: the United States of America one and two in the

1138
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:42,240
Speaker 3: final Final Final Final analysis.

1139
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 2: For instance, for instance, my son.

1140
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 3: Now a professional ballplayer in Europe. What's his name so

1141
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 3: people can google him and see how he's doing. Demiri

1142
01:02:55,280 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 3: Lindomi Lindo. He went to Saint Leo's Middle School. He

1143
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 3: went to Saint Mary's High School. Would I have wanted?

1144
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:23,480
Speaker 3: And particularly when I think about the nurturing environment he

1145
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 3: experienced at Saint Leo's. The principal is Miss Sonya simarl

1146
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 3: And yes I did name drop because she's brilliant. That

1147
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 3: environment that Sonya Simarle fosters nurtures, particularly for young black

1148
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 3: boys at that school was and is brilliant. Would I

1149
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 3: have wanted my son to be any other place, but

1150
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 3: there absolutely not. And interestingly, in terms of my son

1151
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 3: and I were just talking about this last week, the

1152
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:06,160
Speaker 3: friends that he cultivated. He has a core group of

1153
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 3: friends that he cultivated between Saint Leo's and a couple

1154
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 3: of friends at Saint Mary's High School, college high school,

1155
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:20,720
Speaker 3: and there's still a tight knit group and it's a

1156
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 3: beautiful thing to observe. It's a beautiful thing to observe.

1157
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 3: So he was able to cultivate all of that from

1158
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 3: being here in Oakland. It's not necessarily a given that

1159
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 3: he would have had that had we lived someplace else. Sure,

1160
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:41,640
Speaker 3: so I appreciate, I value, I cherish Oakland for those

1161
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:44,720
Speaker 3: reasons from the standpoint that we raised our son here,

1162
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 3: right So, look, as you rightfully say, yes, things could

1163
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 3: be better, but there are a lot of things, very

1164
01:04:55,760 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 3: positive things about Oakland, and overall, particularly from the standpoint

1165
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 3: that I was very clear, as were you, it wouldn't

1166
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:13,440
Speaker 3: be a good thing for me to be in Los Angeles. Overall,

1167
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 3: I am completely fine, happy and comfortable with the fact

1168
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:20,919
Speaker 3: that I have that we made the decision to live

1169
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:21,680
Speaker 3: here in Oakland.

1170
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:22,600
Speaker 2: Well, thank you.

1171
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:25,680
Speaker 1: There's my penultimate question, or I'm going to say, and

1172
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 1: they have a last question to ask. But this is like,

1173
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:31,040
Speaker 1: whatever you want to say about this, if you want

1174
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:32,560
Speaker 1: to say nothing, I just feel like I got to

1175
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 1: say this to you because you're here and I'm not

1176
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 1: asking you to go into the story. I'm not talking

1177
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 1: about the bathtub. I knew it, but I'm not. I've

1178
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 1: already saw you on Fresh Air.

1179
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 2: Go no, thank you.

1180
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 1: It's not so you can say I'm just gonna say

1181
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 1: something to you and then you.

1182
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 2: I'm not you.

1183
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 3: You you formulate and complete your question, then I will

1184
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:52,160
Speaker 3: give it. Yes, I'll give you.

1185
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 1: This from the narrow window of being a black person,

1186
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:57,960
Speaker 1: you and Michael B. Jordan being black people in the

1187
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:02,760
Speaker 1: world having a thing happen and that that many black

1188
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:09,000
Speaker 1: people see as a type of assault the way YouTube

1189
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:15,560
Speaker 1: brothers just sort of like mm hmm and just kept

1190
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:18,800
Speaker 1: it pushing. I was like, where's the award for that?

1191
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:25,400
Speaker 1: Like just the that's all, that's just grace. That was grace,

1192
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 1: the clear eyes and grace of like I don't know

1193
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 1: if there was a blink. I don't know if there

1194
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 1: was Like I don't know if there was. There wasn't

1195
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:36,439
Speaker 1: a like, I don't know if the tremor. I feel

1196
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 1: like if if you'd been on a blood pressure CUF,

1197
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:39,320
Speaker 1: nothing would have happened.

1198
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 2: You would have just liked well. My wife says that

1199
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 2: I adjusted my glasses. That was her tell.

1200
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:53,800
Speaker 1: That was that I adjusted my glasses.

1201
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:56,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and one of the one of the other.

1202
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 1: There was a young man who I worked with at

1203
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:02,680
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers, who I came to know pretty well because

1204
01:07:02,680 --> 01:07:05,080
Speaker 1: we did a lot of these campaign events together, and

1205
01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:09,160
Speaker 1: he said he I don't remember the word of the

1206
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 1: term that he used. He saw a flinch of some kind,

1207
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 1: but it was it was very sudden. We're talking about

1208
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:17,360
Speaker 1: people have to know you to see yes, they have

1209
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:20,040
Speaker 1: to be like, oh, he just you're maybe your notions.

1210
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:23,960
Speaker 2: But because it wasn't, it wasn't what I would have

1211
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:27,160
Speaker 2: felt like I would have done like you wouldn't have

1212
01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:29,080
Speaker 2: and you know why you wouldn't have come out.

1213
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 1: I don't think I don't think you anybody in that

1214
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:38,880
Speaker 1: situation would have reacted any differently than Michael b and

1215
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:45,000
Speaker 1: I reacted because most importantly we had our jobs to do,

1216
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:50,439
Speaker 1: which was to read that teleprompter and present the first

1217
01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:53,200
Speaker 1: present the first award of the because we were the

1218
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 1: very first award of the evening. We were the very first.

1219
01:08:01,520 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 1: Now hold on a second. So so, and I'm going

1220
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:07,400
Speaker 1: to answer your question not yeah, probably in the way

1221
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 1: that you want me.

1222
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 2: I don't have any expectations, Okay.

1223
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:12,520
Speaker 3: So I would say to you, we had our jobs

1224
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:14,840
Speaker 3: to do, and we did it. And the grace that

1225
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:17,880
Speaker 3: you reference, and I love what you just did. You

1226
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 3: said you saw the energy was energetically it was. But

1227
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:30,520
Speaker 3: except that that happened, this, this happened in a nanosecond,

1228
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 3: because for me, it was.

1229
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:41,680
Speaker 2: Did I hear what I thought I heard? Oh? And

1230
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:45,200
Speaker 2: the award for the Evening goes to it was that.

1231
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:49,800
Speaker 3: And what I will say broadly is is I think

1232
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:52,519
Speaker 3: what I said during that NPR interview and what I've

1233
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 3: said to a few other journalists who ask me, the

1234
01:08:57,080 --> 01:09:08,800
Speaker 3: most important outcome of that event, that unfortunate event, was

1235
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 3: the support that we received from so many people for

1236
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:16,840
Speaker 3: the way that we handled it, for the grace that

1237
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:22,599
Speaker 3: we exhibited in handling that moment. And it was a

1238
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:25,760
Speaker 3: classic case of and I did say this, I think

1239
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 3: on NPR a classic case of a negative occurrence becoming

1240
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:37,520
Speaker 3: an extremely positive one for us. And in the final analysis,

1241
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 3: Mike B and I.

1242
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:42,120
Speaker 2: Michael B.

1243
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:48,880
Speaker 3: Jordan recipient of the twenty twenty six Academy Award is

1244
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:54,439
Speaker 3: Best Actor. Kudos to Mike, Michael B. Jordan and I.

1245
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:58,840
Speaker 3: We did our jobs. We represented well, We represented ourselves

1246
01:09:59,160 --> 01:10:01,280
Speaker 3: and I want to say we we represented that people.

1247
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 2: You did.

1248
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:05,280
Speaker 1: You did, and we didn't do it because we said,

1249
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:07,960
Speaker 1: oh we are going to do this. We just were

1250
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:13,639
Speaker 1: in the moment and that became a hugely positive thing.

1251
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 1: And that is what I will ultimately receive and claim

1252
01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:23,880
Speaker 1: from that from that experience. Well, thank you for engaging

1253
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:26,400
Speaker 1: with that topic. I certainly know that it's not and

1254
01:10:26,439 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 1: I just want to be clear. I just wanted to like,

1255
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 1: I felt like I needed to tell you that from

1256
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:32,400
Speaker 1: me personally, and thank you for engaging with it.

1257
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:34,120
Speaker 2: But uh, and I appreciate you.

1258
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:36,439
Speaker 1: I appreciate you doing it because I think that as again,

1259
01:10:36,479 --> 01:10:38,640
Speaker 1: we talk about the chain of command and the continuum

1260
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:42,160
Speaker 1: and the conversations like this, and now you've demanded I

1261
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:44,920
Speaker 1: bring back my Denzel Washington podcast or which means you

1262
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:46,679
Speaker 1: have to be a guest on that I do different.

1263
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:49,720
Speaker 1: That's a different So you've since you demand it comes back.

1264
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:52,880
Speaker 3: I'll do it, okay, and you the other question. I

1265
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:55,240
Speaker 3: will say this about a cause, and it's not quite

1266
01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:59,200
Speaker 3: answering your question, but it's it is. When I was

1267
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:03,479
Speaker 3: speaking about Sonya Symral as an educator and her brilliance,

1268
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 3: her genius in foster fostering and nurturing environments for young kids,

1269
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 3: particularly young Black man.

1270
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:19,040
Speaker 1: Children, that in which they can flourish.

1271
01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:26,160
Speaker 3: My desire, it's not a specific cause, but my desire

1272
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:30,439
Speaker 3: would be to replicate the Sonya symbols of the world.

1273
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:32,840
Speaker 3: And I know that there are educators all of this

1274
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:37,600
Speaker 3: country already feeding into our black children. I know that

1275
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:40,559
Speaker 3: there are, But if I have a desire, it would

1276
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 3: be to be able to replicate those people, to replicate

1277
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:47,160
Speaker 3: the Sonya symbols of the world, such that there is

1278
01:11:47,200 --> 01:11:52,360
Speaker 3: an environment all across this country that is affirming and

1279
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:57,479
Speaker 3: nurturing for children, for kids of color, for our young

1280
01:11:57,560 --> 01:11:59,040
Speaker 3: African American.

1281
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:01,200
Speaker 2: Young men.

1282
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:08,280
Speaker 1: Who can be given a sense of what a real

1283
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 1: sense of what their potential, what their potentialities are that

1284
01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:14,760
Speaker 1: gives them something to shoot for. That's part of what

1285
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:18,960
Speaker 1: my son gained from being here in Oakland, from specifically

1286
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 1: going to a school like Saint Leo's that would be

1287
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:25,799
Speaker 1: what I would desire all across this country, for all children,

1288
01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:30,680
Speaker 1: but certainly for young kids of color and specifically for

1289
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:34,040
Speaker 1: young black men. Well, we're gonna send this clip to her.

1290
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:35,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure she's gonna be happy to hear you say that.

1291
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:38,960
Speaker 1: I would love that, And thank you, God, bless man, God,

1292
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:43,559
Speaker 1: bless you. All Right, So that was actor del Or Linde.

1293
01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:45,640
Speaker 1: And let me clear about something. As amazing as he

1294
01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:49,120
Speaker 1: was in conversation, he was equally, if not more amazing

1295
01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:52,880
Speaker 1: outside of the conversation. He talked to everybody who worked

1296
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:54,680
Speaker 1: at that studio who wanted to talk to him. He

1297
01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:58,080
Speaker 1: took pictures. There were people asking for advice. He gave advice.

1298
01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 1: One of the guys who worked there from Sweden, just

1299
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:04,479
Speaker 1: like Ludavig Gornson is the composer on Sinners, and Doroy

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01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:07,200
Speaker 1: gave him advice and also said, I'm gonna tell Ludvig

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01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:08,599
Speaker 1: that I met you and they made a video.

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Speaker 2: He was amazing. He's an amazing person.

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01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:12,759
Speaker 1: And again at the end of the episode he mentioned

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Speaker 1: principal Sonya Symrael Is somebody he wanted to support and

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01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 1: wanted us to know more about She is the longtime

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01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 1: principal at Saint Leo the Great in Oakland. It is

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01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 1: a school that serves predominantly black community and she's apparently

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01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 1: doing the big work over there, and so I want

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01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:29,080
Speaker 1: you to know how you can support her, since he

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01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:30,880
Speaker 1: wanted to shout her out. If you go to Saint

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01:13:30,920 --> 01:13:34,000
Speaker 1: Leo the Great website, which is s t l e

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Speaker 1: O t h e g r e A T s

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01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:39,760
Speaker 1: t l e O t h e g r e

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Speaker 1: A t dot org, there's a donate button and you

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01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:44,400
Speaker 1: can throw them a few dollars, throw them a dollar.

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01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 1: If everybody throws him a dollar, that's a lot of money.

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01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:49,200
Speaker 1: They're doing big work to raise our black kids and

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Speaker 1: give them the education they need, and Principal Sonya Cymral

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01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:53,920
Speaker 1: is right in the middle of it. Let's shock her

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Speaker 1: by having her show up to me like what we

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01:13:55,439 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 1: got donations from a podcast. Let's do this is what

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01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 1: we're here to do again. This podcast is about conversation.

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01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:04,519
Speaker 1: It's about connection, it's about intimacy, it's about wearing our

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01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:06,880
Speaker 1: hearts in our sleeve. It's about laughing, but it's also

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01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:09,200
Speaker 1: about figuring out how to help as the powers that

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01:14:09,280 --> 01:14:12,600
Speaker 1: be try to pull us apart. It is easier to

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01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:14,800
Speaker 1: tear us apart than to build us back up. So

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01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:17,360
Speaker 1: let's start the building us back up process. Anyway, next

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01:14:17,360 --> 01:14:20,120
Speaker 1: week we have my friend and my Congresswoman Lativa Simon.

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01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:22,639
Speaker 1: It's another great episode and it's already up. It's already

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01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 1: up right now. We drop two it once, so just

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01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:26,960
Speaker 1: go listen to it now. Thank you for listening watching.

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01:14:27,080 --> 01:14:30,240
Speaker 1: Taking in the first episode of Who's With Me With Me?

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01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:30,640
Speaker 4: W K.

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Speaker 1: Mabell, Shout out to the MK Lab here in San Diego,

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01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:36,559
Speaker 1: whre I'm at right now. Shout out to Skyline Studios

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01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 1: in Oakland or we recorded the episode with Delroy Lindo.

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01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:42,040
Speaker 1: Shout out to Rabbagrant Productions, who's producing this with me

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01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:44,640
Speaker 1: and my company, who knows best productions. Shout out to

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01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:47,760
Speaker 1: Malcolm Gladwell's Pushkin's Industries, who's bringing this episode to you

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Speaker 1: right now.

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Speaker 2: Shout out to everybody. Just shout out, just shout out.

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01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:53,640
Speaker 2: Shout out to Christ out from Fishbaum letting me have

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01:14:53,680 --> 01:15:00,920
Speaker 2: that song. Shout out the