WEBVTT - Mick Mulvaney Talks Tariffs, Congress

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>And we're joined by a guest we haven't seen in

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<v Speaker 2>a while. Nick Malvaney is back here with us in

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<v Speaker 2>our Washington, d C studio. Now he's, of course, former

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<v Speaker 2>acting White House Chief of Stack, former OMB director, former

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<v Speaker 2>Republican congressman from South Carolina, co founder of the House

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<v Speaker 2>Freedom Caucus. Welcome back, sir. Good to see you. As always,

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<v Speaker 2>with this conversation we just had, knowing that President Trump

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<v Speaker 2>is fresh off of a massive legislative victory, the one

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<v Speaker 2>big beautiful bill having passed hard fought, yes, but ultimately

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<v Speaker 2>passed by the deadline he wanted. Is the hardest work

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<v Speaker 2>still ahead of him with everything we've just discussed, trying

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<v Speaker 2>to get what he wants on trade in the world,

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of geopolitics.

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<v Speaker 3>The hardest legislative work is done.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't see anything else passing of any real significance.

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<v Speaker 1>Now they do have another reconciliation bullet. I know that's

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<v Speaker 1>real deep in the weeds. We keep in mind there's

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<v Speaker 1>actually two chances at reconciliation this year, so they've got

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<v Speaker 1>another sort of bullet in the gun if they decide

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<v Speaker 1>to try and do something reconcilation. I've not heard much

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<v Speaker 1>about that, but I think the legislative work is done.

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<v Speaker 1>Everybody knew wants the big beautiful bill passed. That was

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<v Speaker 1>pretty much the end of it. So now it shifts

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<v Speaker 1>back to what Trump really likes doing anyway, which is

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<v Speaker 1>the executive stuff.

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<v Speaker 3>Is going to be dealing with Vladimir Putin hard? Yes.

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<v Speaker 3>Is trying to negotiate the piece the Middle East hard? Yes?

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<v Speaker 3>It is. Is it harder than the one big beautiful bill? Probably?

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<v Speaker 1>So Listen, it's not going to get easier. But it's

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<v Speaker 1>not an easy job to begin with. But I think

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<v Speaker 1>the legislative work is probably finished. Certainly, the appetitie I

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<v Speaker 1>think at the House and the Senate to deal with

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<v Speaker 1>anything else that massive is very very low. They want

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<v Speaker 1>to start running for reelection, but there's going to be

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of stuff to do.

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<v Speaker 4>To your point, I want to ask you about the

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<v Speaker 4>influence or lack there of the Freedom Caucus, which you

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<v Speaker 4>helped the found. Yeah, you watched all of this unfold

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<v Speaker 4>last week from Andy Harris to Chip Roy. Hell no

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<v Speaker 4>was the answer. We're not going to get jammed by

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<v Speaker 4>the Senate. We know there were a lot of side

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<v Speaker 4>every time I had said that, So bring us home

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<v Speaker 4>on this because there are a lot of questions about

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<v Speaker 4>whether the Freedom Caucus that you helped the found is

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<v Speaker 4>still relevant.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, it's certainly relevant.

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<v Speaker 1>And any group that can sort of stick together is relevant,

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<v Speaker 1>especially when you've got a margin of just a handful

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<v Speaker 1>of votes in the House. Any group of four or

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<v Speaker 1>five members who can really stick together can sort of

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<v Speaker 1>change an outcome. And I think the Freedom Caucus individual

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<v Speaker 1>members of the Caucus did play important roles. I think

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<v Speaker 1>Chip Roy played an important role in trying to, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>make the bill better when it.

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<v Speaker 3>Was in the House.

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<v Speaker 1>And certainly the fear of the Freedom Caucus sort of

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<v Speaker 1>veat of walking on the bill when it came out

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<v Speaker 1>of the center did influence how far to the center

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<v Speaker 1>maybe the Senate would go. But if the criticism is

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<v Speaker 1>that the Freedom Caucus is different with Donald Trump, and

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<v Speaker 1>the White House answers, yes, it is. We started as

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<v Speaker 1>a fiscally conservative group. If Barack Obama had offered that

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<v Speaker 1>exact same bill, I don't think that the Freedom Caucus

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<v Speaker 1>would have supported it. Now they are the sort of

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<v Speaker 1>the foot soldiers for the Trump residency that have been

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<v Speaker 1>since the first term, so they are less about spending

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<v Speaker 1>now and more of up maga. They know. One of

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<v Speaker 1>the pieces I read that I thought was very insightful

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<v Speaker 1>was that this is absolutely Trump's party now it is.

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<v Speaker 1>There are still going to be folks talking about spending

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<v Speaker 1>less money and all that and efficiencies and so, but

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<v Speaker 1>this is Trump's party. Whatever Trump says Republicans are four, now,

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<v Speaker 1>the party is four. We are now four massive tariffs

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<v Speaker 1>on copper period, end of story until next week when

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<v Speaker 1>we're not right But right now we are, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think the Freedom Caucus is along for the ride just

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<v Speaker 1>like everybody else.

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<v Speaker 2>But on the subject of spending cuts, which obviously they

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<v Speaker 2>did not get as many as they want in the

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<v Speaker 2>reconciliation bill, do you see real opportunity for them to

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<v Speaker 2>get it elsewhere in the form of recisions because we

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<v Speaker 2>aren't necessarily seeing much advancement on the recision package that

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<v Speaker 2>already passed the House and the Senate. Major question as

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<v Speaker 2>to whether you can get out of quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>I will buy Joe dinner if the Senate passes that

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<v Speaker 1>recision calculation. So well, like if I say I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to buy a nice and lady dinner, go use me

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<v Speaker 1>at inappropriate. So you know, like, no, I'll buy Joe

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<v Speaker 1>dinner and but whatever. Look, no, the Recisions Package is

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<v Speaker 1>not going.

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<v Speaker 2>To pass just this one or no.

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<v Speaker 3>No, I don't think any of.

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<v Speaker 4>Them democrat a budget.

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<v Speaker 3>Here's here's why. Okay, spending is bipartisan.

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<v Speaker 1>It has to be, because a spending bill takes sixty

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<v Speaker 1>votes in the Senate, a recision vote only takes fifty.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, it's a special rule.

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<v Speaker 1>It's another one of those. It's like reconciliation in that sense.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you're a Democrat and you kind of deal

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<v Speaker 1>with a Senate your Republican members just a year ago

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<v Speaker 1>to get a spending package passed, and then the Republicans

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<v Speaker 1>go off by themselves without you and sort of thumb

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<v Speaker 1>their nose at you and say, well, we're gonna we're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna undo this spending that we just agreed to. What

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<v Speaker 1>do you think that does for next year spending package?

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<v Speaker 3>It kills it.

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<v Speaker 1>Then you end up with crs and all this kind

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<v Speaker 1>of stuff. It would we talked about. Is there another

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<v Speaker 1>legislation gonna get passed? No, And especially if the Recisions

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<v Speaker 1>Package passes, keep in mind, and I lose track of

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<v Speaker 1>the days, I think the recision package dies.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, yeah, nine days. I had ten days in my

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<v Speaker 3>head or something, whatever it is.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm look, Washington is always better at doing nothing

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<v Speaker 1>than doing something. And if the Senate can sit on

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<v Speaker 1>their hands for the next ten days and say, oh, well,

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<v Speaker 1>we've just ran out of time on recisions, I just

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<v Speaker 1>don't see them doing it.

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<v Speaker 3>Because of the dynamics within that building.

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<v Speaker 4>You believe Donald Trump when he says August first, even this,

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<v Speaker 4>if this was always the date, doesn't move again. There's

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<v Speaker 4>no extensions.

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<v Speaker 3>I think.

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<v Speaker 1>Look, I think somebody said yesterday, it might have been

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<v Speaker 1>on this network, that the market just has given up.

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<v Speaker 1>Now they throw their hands up and they can't. Then

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<v Speaker 1>even they don't even listen to what Trump says anymore

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<v Speaker 1>because they can't. They don't rely on it. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>if you relied on on July ninth, then year off,

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<v Speaker 1>you can't. You can't invest based on that, You can't

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<v Speaker 1>invest based on you can't trade at least based on

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<v Speaker 1>the August first. Year. Throw your hands up and say, look,

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<v Speaker 1>it's gonna it's gonna, it's gonna come as it does.

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<v Speaker 1>Do I think the August date can change? Sure it should.

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<v Speaker 1>Did I predict that the July ninth date would change. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>why because this is the reason no one else got.

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<v Speaker 1>He doesn't like he doesn't like strange numbers. He doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>like July ninth.

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<v Speaker 3>He likes July first, he likes July fourth, he likes

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<v Speaker 3>August first. They're easier to sell. It's it's it's a

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<v Speaker 3>black and white, it's sort of thing. July ninth is what,

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<v Speaker 3>what is that? Like a Wednesday?

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<v Speaker 1>And that's not good for news, that's not good for marketing.

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<v Speaker 4>So look all he brought Japan from twenty four to

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<v Speaker 4>twenty five percent?

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<v Speaker 3>Right, Well listen, well we talked about you joke. Did

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<v Speaker 3>he do that? By the way, haven't heard of it?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes? So I go back to twenty seventeen when we're

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<v Speaker 1>trying to negotiate the corporate taxes on the on the

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<v Speaker 1>first tax cut, and I think Cone came back, we

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<v Speaker 1>wanted twenty percent, and Gary Cohane, who and Steve Mnusan

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<v Speaker 1>who were leading the negotiations, came back and said, well,

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<v Speaker 1>miss presently thinking we get twenty one. He's like twenty

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<v Speaker 1>one twenty one. I can't sell twenty one twenty or

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<v Speaker 1>twenty five twenty or twenty five.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes it's not twenty one. So yeah, that's just that's

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<v Speaker 3>how we operates.

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<v Speaker 1>It works for him. But the point is you can't

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<v Speaker 1>trade off of it. Good August first change, Yes, it's

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<v Speaker 1>not going to be August eighth, and could be September first.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, there's going to be a certain uncertainty in

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<v Speaker 1>what comes out of the White House. It is the

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<v Speaker 1>cultivated what is. He loves the term strategic ambiguity. He

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't want to get pinned down, and he's not going

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<v Speaker 1>to deals go forward.

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<v Speaker 3>Great if they don't, we might look at change in

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<v Speaker 3>the date. We might not who.

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<v Speaker 4>Knows, another two or three months before we see you.

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<v Speaker 3>I hope not.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, well so no, will.

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<v Speaker 3>You guys hear me day later? Yeah, I try to Dan.

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<v Speaker 4>If you don't recognize the name or the voice, uh

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<v Speaker 4>you know the business card, we don't have to do

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<v Speaker 4>that right now, Dewey, Thank you, Mick. It's great to

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<v Speaker 4>have you alongside. Kaylee Lines. I'm Joe Matthew. This is

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<v Speaker 4>Bloomber