Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: And we're joined by a guest we haven't seen in
Speaker 2: a while. Nick Malvaney is back here with us in
Speaker 2: our Washington, d C studio. Now he's, of course, former
Speaker 2: acting White House Chief of Stack, former OMB director, former
Speaker 2: Republican congressman from South Carolina, co founder of the House
Speaker 2: Freedom Caucus. Welcome back, sir. Good to see you. As always,
Speaker 2: with this conversation we just had, knowing that President Trump
Speaker 2: is fresh off of a massive legislative victory, the one
Speaker 2: big beautiful bill having passed hard fought, yes, but ultimately
Speaker 2: passed by the deadline he wanted. Is the hardest work
Speaker 2: still ahead of him with everything we've just discussed, trying
Speaker 2: to get what he wants on trade in the world,
Speaker 2: in terms of geopolitics.
Speaker 3: The hardest legislative work is done.
Speaker 1: I don't see anything else passing of any real significance.
Speaker 1: Now they do have another reconciliation bullet. I know that's
Speaker 1: real deep in the weeds. We keep in mind there's
Speaker 1: actually two chances at reconciliation this year, so they've got
Speaker 1: another sort of bullet in the gun if they decide
Speaker 1: to try and do something reconcilation. I've not heard much
Speaker 1: about that, but I think the legislative work is done.
Speaker 1: Everybody knew wants the big beautiful bill passed. That was
Speaker 1: pretty much the end of it. So now it shifts
Speaker 1: back to what Trump really likes doing anyway, which is
Speaker 1: the executive stuff.
Speaker 3: Is going to be dealing with Vladimir Putin hard? Yes.
Speaker 3: Is trying to negotiate the piece the Middle East hard? Yes?
Speaker 3: It is. Is it harder than the one big beautiful bill? Probably?
Speaker 1: So Listen, it's not going to get easier. But it's
Speaker 1: not an easy job to begin with. But I think
Speaker 1: the legislative work is probably finished. Certainly, the appetitie I
Speaker 1: think at the House and the Senate to deal with
Speaker 1: anything else that massive is very very low. They want
Speaker 1: to start running for reelection, but there's going to be
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff to do.
Speaker 4: To your point, I want to ask you about the
Speaker 4: influence or lack there of the Freedom Caucus, which you
Speaker 4: helped the found. Yeah, you watched all of this unfold
Speaker 4: last week from Andy Harris to Chip Roy. Hell no
Speaker 4: was the answer. We're not going to get jammed by
Speaker 4: the Senate. We know there were a lot of side
Speaker 4: every time I had said that, So bring us home
Speaker 4: on this because there are a lot of questions about
Speaker 4: whether the Freedom Caucus that you helped the found is
Speaker 4: still relevant.
Speaker 3: Well, it's certainly relevant.
Speaker 1: And any group that can sort of stick together is relevant,
Speaker 1: especially when you've got a margin of just a handful
Speaker 1: of votes in the House. Any group of four or
Speaker 1: five members who can really stick together can sort of
Speaker 1: change an outcome. And I think the Freedom Caucus individual
Speaker 1: members of the Caucus did play important roles. I think
Speaker 1: Chip Roy played an important role in trying to, you know,
Speaker 1: make the bill better when it.
Speaker 3: Was in the House.
Speaker 1: And certainly the fear of the Freedom Caucus sort of
Speaker 1: veat of walking on the bill when it came out
Speaker 1: of the center did influence how far to the center
Speaker 1: maybe the Senate would go. But if the criticism is
Speaker 1: that the Freedom Caucus is different with Donald Trump, and
Speaker 1: the White House answers, yes, it is. We started as
Speaker 1: a fiscally conservative group. If Barack Obama had offered that
Speaker 1: exact same bill, I don't think that the Freedom Caucus
Speaker 1: would have supported it. Now they are the sort of
Speaker 1: the foot soldiers for the Trump residency that have been
Speaker 1: since the first term, so they are less about spending
Speaker 1: now and more of up maga. They know. One of
Speaker 1: the pieces I read that I thought was very insightful
Speaker 1: was that this is absolutely Trump's party now it is.
Speaker 1: There are still going to be folks talking about spending
Speaker 1: less money and all that and efficiencies and so, but
Speaker 1: this is Trump's party. Whatever Trump says Republicans are four, now,
Speaker 1: the party is four. We are now four massive tariffs
Speaker 1: on copper period, end of story until next week when
Speaker 1: we're not right But right now we are, and I
Speaker 1: think the Freedom Caucus is along for the ride just
Speaker 1: like everybody else.
Speaker 2: But on the subject of spending cuts, which obviously they
Speaker 2: did not get as many as they want in the
Speaker 2: reconciliation bill, do you see real opportunity for them to
Speaker 2: get it elsewhere in the form of recisions because we
Speaker 2: aren't necessarily seeing much advancement on the recision package that
Speaker 2: already passed the House and the Senate. Major question as
Speaker 2: to whether you can get out of quickly.
Speaker 1: I will buy Joe dinner if the Senate passes that
Speaker 1: recision calculation. So well, like if I say I'm going
Speaker 1: to buy a nice and lady dinner, go use me
Speaker 1: at inappropriate. So you know, like, no, I'll buy Joe
Speaker 1: dinner and but whatever. Look, no, the Recisions Package is
Speaker 1: not going.
Speaker 2: To pass just this one or no.
Speaker 3: No, I don't think any of.
Speaker 4: Them democrat a budget.
Speaker 3: Here's here's why. Okay, spending is bipartisan.
Speaker 1: It has to be, because a spending bill takes sixty
Speaker 1: votes in the Senate, a recision vote only takes fifty.
Speaker 3: Okay, it's a special rule.
Speaker 1: It's another one of those. It's like reconciliation in that sense.
Speaker 1: So if you're a Democrat and you kind of deal
Speaker 1: with a Senate your Republican members just a year ago
Speaker 1: to get a spending package passed, and then the Republicans
Speaker 1: go off by themselves without you and sort of thumb
Speaker 1: their nose at you and say, well, we're gonna we're
Speaker 1: gonna undo this spending that we just agreed to. What
Speaker 1: do you think that does for next year spending package?
Speaker 3: It kills it.
Speaker 1: Then you end up with crs and all this kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. It would we talked about. Is there another
Speaker 1: legislation gonna get passed? No, And especially if the Recisions
Speaker 1: Package passes, keep in mind, and I lose track of
Speaker 1: the days, I think the recision package dies.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, nine days. I had ten days in my
Speaker 3: head or something, whatever it is.
Speaker 1: So I'm look, Washington is always better at doing nothing
Speaker 1: than doing something. And if the Senate can sit on
Speaker 1: their hands for the next ten days and say, oh, well,
Speaker 1: we've just ran out of time on recisions, I just
Speaker 1: don't see them doing it.
Speaker 3: Because of the dynamics within that building.
Speaker 4: You believe Donald Trump when he says August first, even this,
Speaker 4: if this was always the date, doesn't move again. There's
Speaker 4: no extensions.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 1: Look, I think somebody said yesterday, it might have been
Speaker 1: on this network, that the market just has given up.
Speaker 1: Now they throw their hands up and they can't. Then
Speaker 1: even they don't even listen to what Trump says anymore
Speaker 1: because they can't. They don't rely on it. You know,
Speaker 1: if you relied on on July ninth, then year off,
Speaker 1: you can't. You can't invest based on that, You can't
Speaker 1: invest based on you can't trade at least based on
Speaker 1: the August first. Year. Throw your hands up and say, look,
Speaker 1: it's gonna it's gonna, it's gonna come as it does.
Speaker 1: Do I think the August date can change? Sure it should.
Speaker 1: Did I predict that the July ninth date would change. Yes,
Speaker 1: why because this is the reason no one else got.
Speaker 1: He doesn't like he doesn't like strange numbers. He doesn't
Speaker 1: like July ninth.
Speaker 3: He likes July first, he likes July fourth, he likes
Speaker 3: August first. They're easier to sell. It's it's it's a
Speaker 3: black and white, it's sort of thing. July ninth is what,
Speaker 3: what is that? Like a Wednesday?
Speaker 1: And that's not good for news, that's not good for marketing.
Speaker 4: So look all he brought Japan from twenty four to
Speaker 4: twenty five percent?
Speaker 3: Right, Well listen, well we talked about you joke. Did
Speaker 3: he do that? By the way, haven't heard of it?
Speaker 1: Yes? So I go back to twenty seventeen when we're
Speaker 1: trying to negotiate the corporate taxes on the on the
Speaker 1: first tax cut, and I think Cone came back, we
Speaker 1: wanted twenty percent, and Gary Cohane, who and Steve Mnusan
Speaker 1: who were leading the negotiations, came back and said, well,
Speaker 1: miss presently thinking we get twenty one. He's like twenty
Speaker 1: one twenty one. I can't sell twenty one twenty or
Speaker 1: twenty five twenty or twenty five.
Speaker 3: Yes it's not twenty one. So yeah, that's just that's
Speaker 3: how we operates.
Speaker 1: It works for him. But the point is you can't
Speaker 1: trade off of it. Good August first change, Yes, it's
Speaker 1: not going to be August eighth, and could be September first.
Speaker 1: But yeah, there's going to be a certain uncertainty in
Speaker 1: what comes out of the White House. It is the
Speaker 1: cultivated what is. He loves the term strategic ambiguity. He
Speaker 1: doesn't want to get pinned down, and he's not going
Speaker 1: to deals go forward.
Speaker 3: Great if they don't, we might look at change in
Speaker 3: the date. We might not who.
Speaker 4: Knows, another two or three months before we see you.
Speaker 3: I hope not.
Speaker 4: Okay, well so no, will.
Speaker 3: You guys hear me day later? Yeah, I try to Dan.
Speaker 4: If you don't recognize the name or the voice, uh
Speaker 4: you know the business card, we don't have to do
Speaker 4: that right now, Dewey, Thank you, Mick. It's great to
Speaker 4: have you alongside. Kaylee Lines. I'm Joe Matthew. This is
Speaker 4: Bloomber