1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 2: And we're joined by a guest we haven't seen in 3 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 2: a while. Nick Malvaney is back here with us in 4 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: our Washington, d C studio. Now he's, of course, former 5 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,799 Speaker 2: acting White House Chief of Stack, former OMB director, former 6 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 2: Republican congressman from South Carolina, co founder of the House 7 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 2: Freedom Caucus. Welcome back, sir. Good to see you. As always, 8 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 2: with this conversation we just had, knowing that President Trump 9 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 2: is fresh off of a massive legislative victory, the one 10 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 2: big beautiful bill having passed hard fought, yes, but ultimately 11 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 2: passed by the deadline he wanted. Is the hardest work 12 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 2: still ahead of him with everything we've just discussed, trying 13 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 2: to get what he wants on trade in the world, 14 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 2: in terms of geopolitics. 15 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 3: The hardest legislative work is done. 16 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: I don't see anything else passing of any real significance. 17 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: Now they do have another reconciliation bullet. I know that's 18 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: real deep in the weeds. We keep in mind there's 19 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: actually two chances at reconciliation this year, so they've got 20 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: another sort of bullet in the gun if they decide 21 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: to try and do something reconcilation. I've not heard much 22 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: about that, but I think the legislative work is done. 23 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: Everybody knew wants the big beautiful bill passed. That was 24 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: pretty much the end of it. So now it shifts 25 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: back to what Trump really likes doing anyway, which is 26 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: the executive stuff. 27 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 3: Is going to be dealing with Vladimir Putin hard? Yes. 28 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 3: Is trying to negotiate the piece the Middle East hard? Yes? 29 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 3: It is. Is it harder than the one big beautiful bill? Probably? 30 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: So Listen, it's not going to get easier. But it's 31 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: not an easy job to begin with. But I think 32 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: the legislative work is probably finished. Certainly, the appetitie I 33 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 1: think at the House and the Senate to deal with 34 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: anything else that massive is very very low. They want 35 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: to start running for reelection, but there's going to be 36 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff to do. 37 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 4: To your point, I want to ask you about the 38 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 4: influence or lack there of the Freedom Caucus, which you 39 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 4: helped the found. Yeah, you watched all of this unfold 40 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 4: last week from Andy Harris to Chip Roy. Hell no 41 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 4: was the answer. We're not going to get jammed by 42 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 4: the Senate. We know there were a lot of side 43 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 4: every time I had said that, So bring us home 44 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 4: on this because there are a lot of questions about 45 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 4: whether the Freedom Caucus that you helped the found is 46 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 4: still relevant. 47 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 3: Well, it's certainly relevant. 48 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,639 Speaker 1: And any group that can sort of stick together is relevant, 49 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 1: especially when you've got a margin of just a handful 50 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: of votes in the House. Any group of four or 51 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: five members who can really stick together can sort of 52 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: change an outcome. And I think the Freedom Caucus individual 53 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: members of the Caucus did play important roles. I think 54 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: Chip Roy played an important role in trying to, you know, 55 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: make the bill better when it. 56 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 3: Was in the House. 57 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: And certainly the fear of the Freedom Caucus sort of 58 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: veat of walking on the bill when it came out 59 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: of the center did influence how far to the center 60 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: maybe the Senate would go. But if the criticism is 61 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: that the Freedom Caucus is different with Donald Trump, and 62 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 1: the White House answers, yes, it is. We started as 63 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: a fiscally conservative group. If Barack Obama had offered that 64 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 1: exact same bill, I don't think that the Freedom Caucus 65 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: would have supported it. Now they are the sort of 66 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: the foot soldiers for the Trump residency that have been 67 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: since the first term, so they are less about spending 68 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,519 Speaker 1: now and more of up maga. They know. One of 69 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: the pieces I read that I thought was very insightful 70 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: was that this is absolutely Trump's party now it is. 71 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 1: There are still going to be folks talking about spending 72 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: less money and all that and efficiencies and so, but 73 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: this is Trump's party. Whatever Trump says Republicans are four, now, 74 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: the party is four. We are now four massive tariffs 75 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 1: on copper period, end of story until next week when 76 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 1: we're not right But right now we are, and I 77 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: think the Freedom Caucus is along for the ride just 78 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: like everybody else. 79 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 2: But on the subject of spending cuts, which obviously they 80 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 2: did not get as many as they want in the 81 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 2: reconciliation bill, do you see real opportunity for them to 82 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 2: get it elsewhere in the form of recisions because we 83 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 2: aren't necessarily seeing much advancement on the recision package that 84 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 2: already passed the House and the Senate. Major question as 85 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 2: to whether you can get out of quickly. 86 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: I will buy Joe dinner if the Senate passes that 87 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: recision calculation. So well, like if I say I'm going 88 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: to buy a nice and lady dinner, go use me 89 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: at inappropriate. So you know, like, no, I'll buy Joe 90 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: dinner and but whatever. Look, no, the Recisions Package is 91 00:03:58,720 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: not going. 92 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 2: To pass just this one or no. 93 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 3: No, I don't think any of. 94 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 4: Them democrat a budget. 95 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 3: Here's here's why. Okay, spending is bipartisan. 96 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: It has to be, because a spending bill takes sixty 97 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: votes in the Senate, a recision vote only takes fifty. 98 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 3: Okay, it's a special rule. 99 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,359 Speaker 1: It's another one of those. It's like reconciliation in that sense. 100 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: So if you're a Democrat and you kind of deal 101 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: with a Senate your Republican members just a year ago 102 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: to get a spending package passed, and then the Republicans 103 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: go off by themselves without you and sort of thumb 104 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: their nose at you and say, well, we're gonna we're 105 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: gonna undo this spending that we just agreed to. What 106 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 1: do you think that does for next year spending package? 107 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 3: It kills it. 108 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: Then you end up with crs and all this kind 109 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: of stuff. It would we talked about. Is there another 110 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: legislation gonna get passed? No, And especially if the Recisions 111 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: Package passes, keep in mind, and I lose track of 112 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: the days, I think the recision package dies. 113 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, nine days. I had ten days in my 114 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 3: head or something, whatever it is. 115 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: So I'm look, Washington is always better at doing nothing 116 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: than doing something. And if the Senate can sit on 117 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: their hands for the next ten days and say, oh, well, 118 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: we've just ran out of time on recisions, I just 119 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: don't see them doing it. 120 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 3: Because of the dynamics within that building. 121 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 4: You believe Donald Trump when he says August first, even this, 122 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 4: if this was always the date, doesn't move again. There's 123 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 4: no extensions. 124 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 3: I think. 125 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 1: Look, I think somebody said yesterday, it might have been 126 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: on this network, that the market just has given up. 127 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: Now they throw their hands up and they can't. Then 128 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: even they don't even listen to what Trump says anymore 129 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: because they can't. They don't rely on it. You know, 130 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: if you relied on on July ninth, then year off, 131 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: you can't. You can't invest based on that, You can't 132 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: invest based on you can't trade at least based on 133 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: the August first. Year. Throw your hands up and say, look, 134 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: it's gonna it's gonna, it's gonna come as it does. 135 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: Do I think the August date can change? Sure it should. 136 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: Did I predict that the July ninth date would change. Yes, 137 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: why because this is the reason no one else got. 138 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: He doesn't like he doesn't like strange numbers. He doesn't 139 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: like July ninth. 140 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 3: He likes July first, he likes July fourth, he likes 141 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,359 Speaker 3: August first. They're easier to sell. It's it's it's a 142 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 3: black and white, it's sort of thing. July ninth is what, 143 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 3: what is that? Like a Wednesday? 144 00:05:55,480 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: And that's not good for news, that's not good for marketing. 145 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 4: So look all he brought Japan from twenty four to 146 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 4: twenty five percent? 147 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 3: Right, Well listen, well we talked about you joke. Did 148 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 3: he do that? By the way, haven't heard of it? 149 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: Yes? So I go back to twenty seventeen when we're 150 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,919 Speaker 1: trying to negotiate the corporate taxes on the on the 151 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: first tax cut, and I think Cone came back, we 152 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: wanted twenty percent, and Gary Cohane, who and Steve Mnusan 153 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 1: who were leading the negotiations, came back and said, well, 154 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: miss presently thinking we get twenty one. He's like twenty 155 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 1: one twenty one. I can't sell twenty one twenty or 156 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: twenty five twenty or twenty five. 157 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 3: Yes it's not twenty one. So yeah, that's just that's 158 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 3: how we operates. 159 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,239 Speaker 1: It works for him. But the point is you can't 160 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: trade off of it. Good August first change, Yes, it's 161 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: not going to be August eighth, and could be September first. 162 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: But yeah, there's going to be a certain uncertainty in 163 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: what comes out of the White House. It is the 164 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: cultivated what is. He loves the term strategic ambiguity. He 165 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: doesn't want to get pinned down, and he's not going 166 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: to deals go forward. 167 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 3: Great if they don't, we might look at change in 168 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 3: the date. We might not who. 169 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 4: Knows, another two or three months before we see you. 170 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 3: I hope not. 171 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 4: Okay, well so no, will. 172 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 3: You guys hear me day later? Yeah, I try to Dan. 173 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 4: If you don't recognize the name or the voice, uh 174 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 4: you know the business card, we don't have to do 175 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 4: that right now, Dewey, Thank you, Mick. It's great to 176 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 4: have you alongside. Kaylee Lines. I'm Joe Matthew. This is 177 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 4: Bloomber