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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece.

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Speaker 2: Breaking you tonight, PhD student turned to murder suspect Brian Coberger.

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Speaker 1: Files his alibi.

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Speaker 2: He claims with a straight face, he was out stargazing.

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Speaker 1: Quote out driving to see the moon.

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Speaker 2: And the stars on the night for Beautiful University, Idaho students.

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Speaker 1: Butcher dead in their own beds.

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Speaker 2: This as the state is forced to admit in open

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Speaker 2: court there was no stalking. Repeat, Coburger did not stalk

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Speaker 2: any of the four murder victims. Now will the defense

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Speaker 2: claim a lah, Johnny Cochrane, no stalking, no motive, no murder.

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Speaker 2: I say, no way, good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This

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Speaker 2: is crime story. I want to thank you for being

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Speaker 2: with us.

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Speaker 3: On the evening of November twelfth and into the early

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Speaker 3: morning hours of November thirteenth, Kaylee and Madison arrived home

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Speaker 3: at approximately one forty five am after visiting a local

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Speaker 3: bar and a street food vendor. Ethan and Xana were

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Speaker 3: also out in the community as Sigma Chai, and they

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Speaker 3: arrived home at approximately one forty five am. Two surviving

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Speaker 3: roommates who were also at in the community arrived home

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Speaker 3: at approximately one am. Later on the morning of November thirteenth,

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Speaker 3: at eleven fifty eight am, a nine on one call

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Speaker 3: was placed. The call reported an unconscious person. The call

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Speaker 3: originated from inside the residence and a surviving roommate's cell

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Speaker 3: phone was used. During that call, the dispatcher spoke to

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Speaker 3: multiple people who were unseen. Moscow police officers responded and

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Speaker 3: found two victims, two on the second floor and two

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Speaker 3: on the third floor of eleven twenty two King Road.

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Speaker 3: The results of autopsies indicated that the four were stabbed

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Speaker 3: multiple times and were likely asleep during the attack. Some

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Speaker 3: had defensive wounds, and there was no sign of sexual assault.

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Speaker 2: You are hearing Police Captain Roger Lanier there in Moscow

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Speaker 2: detailing what happened the morning the murders were reported to

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Speaker 2: nine to one one in the last hours Bobshell. In

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Speaker 2: the courtroom, Ryan Coberger announced this his formal alibi, that

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Speaker 2: he was quote out watching the moon and the stars

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Speaker 2: around three.

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Speaker 1: To four a m. The night of the murders. Hold

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Speaker 1: that thought also in the middle of all of this,

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Speaker 1: let me throw this in the pot to stew.

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Speaker 2: We are now learning, contrary to many earlier reports.

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Speaker 1: That there there was no stalking.

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Speaker 2: Brian Coberger reportedly stalked no one. This is a torpedo

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Speaker 2: to the States case.

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Speaker 4: Listen, Brian Coberger tried to message one of the female

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Speaker 4: victims of the Idaho murders. That's reportedly what an unidentified

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Speaker 4: police source told People Magazine. The source said, weeks before

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Speaker 4: the murder's direct messages were repeatedly sent to one of

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Speaker 4: the women over Instagram. The source said there was no reply.

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Speaker 4: Reports early on from an anonymous source revealed that there

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Speaker 4: were pictures of at least one of the victims in

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Speaker 4: Brian Coberger's photo role. Steve and Christy Gonsolves also shared

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Speaker 4: screenshots with CBS News purportedly showing an Instagram account belonging

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Speaker 4: to Brian Coberger and it had interacted with and followed

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Speaker 4: Matty Mogen and Kaylee Gonsolves on the social media platform.

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Speaker 4: Christy Alis said that Coburger had liked pictures on Matty

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Speaker 4: Mogan's account. The account that Gonzalvez referred to was not

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Speaker 4: authenticated as belonging to Coberger, then who wasn't.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's what we've been told all along, right, all wrong.

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Speaker 2: There was a serious blow up in court.

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Speaker 1: Listen, you acknowled with false the Michilber allegend.

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Speaker 5: We saw one of the victims. That's false.

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Speaker 6: You know that, people, which one did missus Coberger allegend

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Speaker 6: we stalked.

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Speaker 5: One of the victims. I was trying not to say that.

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Speaker 7: Because you knew you knew that was false.

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Speaker 5: I did it.

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Speaker 6: Yes, and so you now, for anybody who had never

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Speaker 6: heard that before, that question is now planged in to

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Speaker 6: them unqualified representation that mister Coberger stalked one of the witnesses.

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Speaker 5: And that's false, that's false. Yes, yes, okay, thank you,

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Speaker 5: thank you.

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Speaker 2: Okay, what in the world you are hearing the prosecutor

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Speaker 2: that is Bill Thompson the lot of County prosecutor dreaming

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Speaker 2: technical legal term doctor Edelman for the defense, and the

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Speaker 2: prosecutor is grilling him on claims that he made two

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Speaker 2: potential jurrrs about stalking in this case. Joining me an

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Speaker 2: all star panel to make sense of everything that's going

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Speaker 2: on in that courtroom, and there is a lot. But

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Speaker 2: first to Kaitlin Hornick, joining us editor at the US Sun. Caitlin,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. I'm going to get

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Speaker 2: to the moon of the stars, all right. I've already

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Speaker 2: researched the whole thing on the Farmer's Almanac, Caitlin, what

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Speaker 2: is this about?

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Speaker 1: No stalking? Are we losing motive for murder?

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Speaker 8: You know, Nancy, I think there are a lot of

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Speaker 8: things still at play that this jury ultimately will have

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Speaker 8: to uncover. The thing that's really sticking out to me

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Speaker 8: is the you know, the back and forth with the stalking.

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Speaker 8: I don't know how you can go from saying that

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Speaker 8: there were these messages exchanged on Instagram and that the

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Speaker 8: photos on the camera roll to saying, oh no, wait,

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Speaker 8: that's that's not true, that's actually not true.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 8: I think there are a lot of things that the

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Speaker 8: prosecutors need to be honest about and that they need

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Speaker 8: to lay out in plain terms facts about what actually

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Speaker 8: went on. Personally, I think the fact that his that

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Speaker 8: Coburger's prosecutors doubled down on his alibi is equal parts

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Speaker 8: shocking and you know, just kind of crazy when you

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Speaker 8: think about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm thinking about that whole watching the Moon and

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Speaker 2: Stars aspect of this. Let me go to high profile

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Speaker 2: lawyer joining us from this jurisdiction, Tara Malik, partner at

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Speaker 2: Smith and Malik and former state and federal prosecutor Tara,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. Do you remember, of

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Speaker 2: course you do the famous if it doesn't fit.

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Speaker 1: You must acquit.

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Speaker 2: Well, I feel like I'm getting bit in the neck

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Speaker 2: with this thing. But all along we have heard police

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Speaker 2: stating we don't have evidence of stalking.

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Speaker 1: We've heard that from the get go.

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Speaker 2: But yet we've seen screens and heard evidence that there

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Speaker 2: was stalking by Coburger on at least one of the victims,

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Speaker 2: if not more. So are we going to have a

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Speaker 2: Johnny cochrane asque defense, no stalking, no murder, no motive.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, it certainly doesn't help the States case.

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Speaker 9: Motive is not something that they have to prove. It's

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Speaker 9: not like, you know, an element of the charges. But

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Speaker 9: what it does is explain the why behind the crimes,

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Speaker 9: and jurors always want to know why why did this happen?

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Speaker 9: And so it's going to be really critical for the

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Speaker 9: prosecute to have a well articulated motive for this, because

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Speaker 9: otherwise defense is going to come in and start tearing

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Speaker 9: it apart and saying absolutely what you said, no stalking,

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Speaker 9: no murder here, guys.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, it goes way back. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to Police Captain Roger Lanier.

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Speaker 3: We've heard mention that Kaylee stated she may have had

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Speaker 3: a stalker. Detectives have been looking into that and to

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Speaker 3: this point have been unable to corroborate the statement. Although

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Speaker 3: we continue to seek information and tips regarding that report.

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Speaker 3: No suspects have been named or arrested, and we continue

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Speaker 3: looking for what we will leave to be a fixed

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Speaker 3: blade knife used in the murders.

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Speaker 2: That knife never found, and neither has there been found

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Speaker 2: evidence of stalking.

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Speaker 1: Again.

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Speaker 2: I can hear it ringing in my ears right now.

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Speaker 2: No motive, no murder joining me is I said an

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Speaker 2: All Star panel to Chris mcdunna, joining US director Cold

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Speaker 2: Case Foundation, former homicide detective on the Interview.

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Speaker 1: Room on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: Chris mcdonna, of course, the state, as you know from

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Speaker 2: handling so many homicides, never has to prove motive. But

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Speaker 2: in many people's minds, there should be a motive presented

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Speaker 2: to a jury, because how could a jury believe that

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Speaker 2: someone that doesn't know these four victims would just randomly

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Speaker 2: choose them and murder them to quote, see.

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Speaker 1: What it feels like. That's going to be a.

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Speaker 2: Tough sell, especially now that we find out the state

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Speaker 2: has also learned. The defense is bringing on cell phone

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Speaker 2: and radio frequency data to refute claims Coburger was in

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Speaker 2: the area of the murders at the time of the murders.

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Speaker 2: The state is getting torpedoed left and right. Now we've

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Speaker 2: lost motive the stalking.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Nancy, I mean one of the most interesting things

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Speaker 5: in I may just be semantics is when Thompson was

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Speaker 5: arguing with the expert witness of the defense put on,

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Speaker 5: he mentioned that there's no evidence of witnesses being stalked.

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Speaker 5: I thought that was a very interesting choice of words

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Speaker 5: versus victims. This may be a cover play as well

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Speaker 5: by the state, because you know, you've got to now

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Speaker 5: think about we've got some amateur, you know, astronomer i e. Coburger,

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Speaker 5: you know, exercising in the middle of the night. Yet

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Speaker 5: his cell phone shows up twelve separate times around the

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Speaker 5: crime scene.

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Speaker 2: Now, according to the defense, though, Chris, they're going to

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Speaker 2: bring on cell phone experts and radio frequency experts to prove,

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Speaker 2: according to the defense, that he wasn't there.

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Speaker 1: Do I believe it?

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Speaker 9: No?

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Speaker 1: But what did your r just one believe it?

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Speaker 2: Maybe this as we were learning and correct me if

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Speaker 2: I'm wrong, Caitlin Hornet joining us from the US SUN.

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Speaker 1: But the polls, the.

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Speaker 2: Surveyor that was hired by the defense to call at

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Speaker 2: least four hundred prospective gurrrs asked the gurrrs about stalking,

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Speaker 2: and we heard Prosecutor Bill Thompson say, you knew that

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Speaker 2: wasn't true, and you asked people, you put it out

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Speaker 2: there in the ether that there was stalking.

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Speaker 1: And the guy responds, I don't care if it's true

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Speaker 1: or false. He actually said that in a court of law.

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Speaker 1: Did that happen? Caitlin.

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Speaker 8: You know, I think one of the biggest things at

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Speaker 8: play here at that that the whole the prosecution that Coburger,

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Speaker 8: that everyone involved is struggling with is misinformation. You know,

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Speaker 8: we've seen that from the beginning with the stalker not

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Speaker 8: stalker bit. You know, there are so many inconsistencies that

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Speaker 8: I think are still being investigated.

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Speaker 2: Okay, question, I'm asking you about the surveyor, the surveyor

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Speaker 2: that sent out called to at least four hundred potential

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Speaker 2: Coburger your ours, and in that phone survey, the surveyor

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Speaker 2: asked about Coburger stalking the victims, and you know what

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Speaker 2: played again, was It's cut twenty Bill Thompson, the Lotta

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Speaker 2: County prosecutor, grilling doctor Edelman who took part in this survey.

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Speaker 1: Listen, you're donald was.

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Speaker 6: False the Michilberger allegend we stalked one of the victims,

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Speaker 6: that's false.

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Speaker 1: You know that to be false?

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Speaker 5: Which one did missus Coberger allegend we stalked one of

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Speaker 5: the victims. I was trying not to say.

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Speaker 10: That because you knew you knew.

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Speaker 9: That was false.

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Speaker 3: I did it.

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Speaker 6: Yes, And so you now, for anybody who had never

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Speaker 6: heard that before, that question is now planged in to

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Speaker 6: them unqualified representation that mister Coberger stalked one of the witnesses.

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Speaker 7: And that's false, that's false.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yes, okay, thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right, So Caitlyn Hornick, explain who is Edelman?

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Speaker 9: Doctor Edelman is?

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Speaker 8: You know he's a polster. We why he was making

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Speaker 8: these phone calls and kind of you know, planting this

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Speaker 8: information remains to be seen. You know, why he went

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Speaker 8: so far and you know to say that there was

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Speaker 8: stalking and you know, but these false claims, it doesn't

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Speaker 8: make sense. And I think it's it's really up to

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Speaker 8: the jury and the prosecutors to figure out what motive.

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Speaker 1: Was crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: To Tara Malik joining US, high profile lawyer joining us

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Speaker 2: from the Idaho jurisdiction. This is a major, big deal

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Speaker 2: that the defense witness gets up on the stand and says,

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Speaker 2: I don't care if it's a lie, I don't care.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't matter to me. Yet they have poison the

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Speaker 2: jury pool with this. This is a big deal to ourmality.

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Speaker 1: But what's the remedy.

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Speaker 2: What You're going to throw off the defense attorney and

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Speaker 2: start all over with somebody new.

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Speaker 1: That's not going to happen. So the defense is getting

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Speaker 1: away with this with impunity. Now.

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Speaker 2: Now the result is those four hundred jurors are out.

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Speaker 1: They have been poisoned.

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Speaker 2: So if any of them, which is highly likely in

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Speaker 2: a small jurisdiction.

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Speaker 1: Are called a jury duty, they're out. They can't be

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Speaker 1: on the jury. Yeah.

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Speaker 9: Absolutely, I mean the judge noted in the hearing where

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Speaker 9: they were talking about this issue with the Folster and

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Speaker 9: the specific questions that were being asked. You know, you

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Speaker 9: both parties have done have gone to great lengths and

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Speaker 9: to also protect from having false information out in this community,

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Speaker 9: which is a really small community, and yet here we go.

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Speaker 9: Defense hires a consultant to go out there and pose

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Speaker 9: questions under the guise of trying to figure out, you know,

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Speaker 9: whether there's prejudicial ideas or biases out in this community

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Speaker 9: to support their request for a venue change. And they're

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Speaker 9: just spreading this information that they know is untrue. So

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Speaker 9: it's a really big deal and the judge was understandably

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Speaker 9: upset by it. Now the defense is trying to say,

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Speaker 9: you know that this is normal and that they're just

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Speaker 9: trying to gather information to support their motion for change

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Speaker 9: a venue. But either way, you don't have to go

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Speaker 9: that far.

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Speaker 2: We are learning about the weather conditions the night of

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Speaker 2: the murders. To Joe Scott Morgan, how difficult is it

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Speaker 2: to pull that up?

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Speaker 1: Because I found it pretty quickly.

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Speaker 2: The night sky at eleven fifty pm November twelve, throughout

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Speaker 2: the morning was basically very low visibility. And jo Scott,

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Speaker 2: before you answer that, I'm looking throughout the night three

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Speaker 2: seventeen am overcast, three fifty three am.

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Speaker 1: That's the time of the murders, ice.

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Speaker 2: And fog, four fifty three overcast, five fifty three overcast,

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Speaker 2: six fifty three overcast, so what's he looking at?

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Speaker 10: Nothing? I mean, how can he see? You know, unless

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Speaker 10: he has some kind of special ability, how are you

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Speaker 10: going to be able to go out and appreciate this?

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Speaker 10: And you're talking about a layer of fog nancy as well,

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Speaker 10: because that's going to settle between your view of the

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Speaker 10: sky and yourself your position relative.

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Speaker 11: To the sky.

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Speaker 10: All right, So it's not just simply that it's overcast.

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Speaker 10: It's like you begin to think about fog that's perhaps

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Speaker 10: over there. It's kind of you know how they use

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Speaker 10: the term nancy, a blanket of fog. You begin to

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Speaker 10: think about that. So that's even going to further obscure

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Speaker 10: your view. Yeah, I guess I don't know. Maybe he

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Speaker 10: has special powers that we don't possess. I just don't

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Speaker 10: see the validity in this assertion.

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Speaker 1: So I'm looking at this.

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Speaker 2: The cloud cover on Saturday, November twelve, twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 2: in Moscow, Idaho, cloud coverage, the height of dominant cloud

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Speaker 2: layer very very thick and overcast. That night there is

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Speaker 2: not only overcast, but ice and fog. And you know

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Speaker 2: what I think would be a fantastic courtroom demonstration. And

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Speaker 2: of course Tara Malik high profile lawyer joining US side

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Speaker 2: of this jurisdiction, Tara, wouldn't it be a great demonstration

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Speaker 2: to turn off all the lights in the courtroom and

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Speaker 2: try to recreate the conditions maybe with possibly an overhead

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Speaker 2: projector of some sort of the stars in the moon.

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Speaker 1: How little you could see that night. That would be

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Speaker 1: tough to do.

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Speaker 2: Maybe there's some sort of a satellite picture from that night.

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Speaker 2: I bet there is that could be achieved by the

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Speaker 2: state to show the jury, maybe from the US Weather Service,

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Speaker 2: how overcast it really was that night.

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Speaker 1: And for him to be out at four a m.

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Speaker 1: Stargazing what a saka let me just say b s

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Speaker 1: technical legal term. I mean, is this really happening?

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Speaker 3: Tar?

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Speaker 9: I mean again, this is a weak alibi that's being

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Speaker 9: put forward. And I agree if there's a way to

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Speaker 9: demonstrate or show a picture about what this guy looked

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Speaker 9: like that night, I would certainly think that would help

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Speaker 9: the prosecution's case in poking holes in this alibi defense.

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Speaker 2: Guys, take a listen to what the judge and the

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Speaker 2: prosecutor had to say about the stargazing alibi.

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Speaker 5: The way I understand this.

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Speaker 7: Is and this is the ali not knowing how.

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Speaker 9: Quote he was out driving through the late night and

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Speaker 9: early one as a November flag.

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Speaker 8: Too.

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Speaker 5: Whistober that West now say?

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Speaker 2: Is that.

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Speaker 5: His ally as.

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Speaker 7: You are now driving around that night work. Hey, we

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Speaker 7: do that already and that is aliliar, so he What

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Speaker 7: defendant has still failed to do is to comply by

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Speaker 7: the nineteen n By nineteen and I were Court twelve

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Speaker 7: point one. It specifically requires a defendant to provide identifying

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Speaker 7: natings of witnesses who will be called to support the alleli,

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Speaker 7: along with their addresses.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it's hard to make out what Judge Judge is saying.

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Speaker 2: I'm not stuttering. His name is judge John Judge. It's

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Speaker 2: hard to make out what he's saying. You know, he's

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Speaker 2: kind of tilted down. I'm just grateful that they let

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Speaker 2: a camera be in the court and so we could

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Speaker 2: hear and see a little bit of what's going on.

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Speaker 1: He says.

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Speaker 2: The way I understand this is and this is the

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Speaker 2: this is the judge talking the so called alibi.

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Speaker 1: The judge says, the so called alibi. Don't say that

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Speaker 1: in front of the jury, Judge, Judge, don't. He goes

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Speaker 1: on to say, the way I understand this is, and

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Speaker 1: this is the.

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Speaker 2: So called alibi, not really an alibi. The judge said

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Speaker 2: that not me, his word's not mine. Not really an alibi,

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Speaker 2: but quote, he was out driving during the late night

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Speaker 2: and early morning hours of November twelveth two thirteen, twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty two. The judge is commenting on the alibi. He

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Speaker 2: is calling it a so called alibi, and he's also

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Speaker 2: stating it is quote, not really an alibi, because it's

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Speaker 2: not it's not that said. The prosecutor comes right back

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Speaker 2: in after that and states that even though he's claiming

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Speaker 2: he was out driving, the defense is not complied with

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Speaker 2: the law, Tara Malik.

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Speaker 1: The law is that if you are presenting an alibi, you.

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Speaker 2: Are specifically required to identify witnesses or corroboration to support

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Speaker 2: your alibi, along with their addresses, and the state has

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Speaker 2: to do this too, with all of their witnesses, so

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Speaker 2: that the state can.

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Speaker 1: Test the alibi.

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Speaker 2: In other words, speak to the witnesses, test the scientific evidence.

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Speaker 1: Let me pose you a question, Tara.

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Speaker 2: Since there's not going to be a witness to state

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Speaker 2: they saw Coburger out driving around that night, let's just

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Speaker 2: cut the chase.

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Speaker 1: It's not a witness.

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Speaker 2: I'm wondering if they're going to use cell phone data

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Speaker 2: to suggest Coburger was elsewhere at the time of the

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Speaker 2: murders looking at the stars, because that elsewhere is out

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Speaker 2: in the middle of.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, it seems like that they're going to rely on

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Speaker 9: cell phone data to say he was out at a

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Speaker 9: park stargazing.

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Speaker 1: But you know, again, where is this park.

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Speaker 9: And is the park within the route of you know,

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Speaker 9: the secuitis kind of route that we've already know and

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Speaker 9: talked about that he took to get over to the victims' homes.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot to be seen here.

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Speaker 9: And it seems like the defense is also saying, we

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Speaker 9: still don't have the discovery that we need to get

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Speaker 9: all this information out and to support our alibi. Not

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Speaker 9: a great position to be in, and again it seems

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Speaker 9: like a weak alibi to me. The other part of it, too,

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Speaker 9: that the prosecutor said when they said you know he

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Speaker 9: was out, was that we already knew Coburger was out.

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Speaker 12: Listen Coburger's official alibi claims quote mister Coburger was out

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Speaker 12: driving in the early morning hours of November thirteen, twenty

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Speaker 12: twenty two, as he often did to hike and run

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Speaker 12: and or see the moon and stars. He drove throughout

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Speaker 12: the area south of Pullman, Washington, west of Moscow, Idaho,

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Speaker 12: including well why we park. To further solidify his alibi,

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Speaker 12: Coberger said he plans to offer testimony from a CSLI

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Speaker 12: expert to show that he was south of Pullman and

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Speaker 12: west of Moscow at the time of the murders and

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Speaker 12: that he did not travel east on the Moscow Pullman

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Speaker 12: Highway in the early morning hours of November thirteenth, twenty

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Speaker 12: twenty two.

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Speaker 1: So what does that mean?

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Speaker 2: That means that Brian Coburger intends to call an expert

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Speaker 2: to the stand to testify that his Brian Coburger cell

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Speaker 2: phone was outside Moscow on the night the students were murdered.

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Speaker 2: Joining me right now is a veteran in cyber security,

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Speaker 2: Bill Slater, cybersecurity expert at IT Security Consultant.

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Speaker 1: Bill, thank you for being with us. What does this mean?

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Speaker 1: What are they saying? What do you expect to happen?

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Speaker 9: Sure?

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Speaker 11: Well, one of the things that that occurs when you

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Speaker 11: have your cell phone, even if it's turned off, it

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Speaker 11: will ping towers and that's on the cell phone grid.

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Speaker 11: So they're they're going to try to prove that his

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Speaker 11: cell phone was pinging towers that were not in the

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Speaker 11: location where the crime occurred. The other piece of evidence

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Speaker 11: that I think would be extremely interesting to relate would

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Speaker 11: be the data recorder that's installed on every modern vehicle

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Speaker 11: in the last six or seven years, so that there's

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Speaker 11: a there's a hard drive in there that indicates what

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Speaker 11: what the car has been doing, and that a lot

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Speaker 11: of people view that as a breach of privacy, but

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Speaker 11: that has been used to investigate crime. So I would

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Speaker 11: try to relate both of those. But the other thing

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Speaker 11: I'll mention real quick is anytime you have digital data,

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Speaker 11: that data itself can be altered and you need to

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Speaker 11: show a chain of custody that the data has not

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Speaker 11: been altered. So that's another consideration.

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Speaker 2: From what I am gleaning from what was said in

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Speaker 2: court in the last hours Bill Slater, Guys, Bill Slater,

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Speaker 2: cybersecurity expert, is that the defense is going to call

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Speaker 2: one a cell phone expert to offer information regarding cell

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Speaker 2: phone tower pingings as you just described, and a radio

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Speaker 2: frequency expert to corroborate the cell phone expert. So what

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Speaker 2: does that mean a radio frequency expert, Well, all of our.

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Speaker 11: Cell phones operate on radio frequencies, and so they would

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Speaker 11: be looking for that expert to say that not only

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Speaker 11: did the cell phone ping these towers, but it pinged

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Speaker 11: it on the frequency that the cell phone was rated

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Speaker 11: to ping on. So it's like it's like a signature.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm just a JD. I'm not a cybersecurity expert.

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Speaker 1: What are you saying? Could you say it in a

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Speaker 1: different way.

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Speaker 11: Sure, all of our cell phones are radio transmitters because

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Speaker 11: they're they're wireless, and that's how they talk in the network.

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Speaker 11: The way that it talks is I won't get into

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Speaker 11: the physics of it, but basically it's it sends out

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Speaker 11: radio frequencies. Uh, it sends and receives signals on radio frequencies.

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Speaker 11: So the person that they want to cooperate that would say, yes,

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Speaker 11: the pinging on the cell phone towers matches the radio

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Speaker 11: frequent of his phone.

442
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 1: Okay, that made better sense to me.

443
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 2: So the radio frequency used at the towers equals or

444
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 2: compatible sympatico with the radio frequency his phone would have

445
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 2: been using. Okay, So is it correct to state Bill

446
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 2: Slater that a radio frequency expert could corroborate a cell

447
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:27,360
Speaker 2: phone data expert?

448
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 1: Or are they one and the same.

449
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 11: They're not one and the same. And the radio frequency

450
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 11: expert would be supporting the data expert who would be

451
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 11: reporting the the timing of the receipt of the signals

452
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 11: in this area.

453
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 2: And anybody on the panel jump in. We've all been

454
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 2: to the area, We've seen the area. The defense is

455
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 2: arguing that Coburger was driving south of Pullman, where he

456
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 2: goes to school at Washington State University, and west of Moscow.

457
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 2: Defense claiming Coburger a driving south of Pullman, and that's Pullman,

458
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 2: Washington and west of Moscow, Idaho, quote as he often

459
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 2: did to hike and run or see the moon and stars. Okay,

460
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 2: the two towns are only ten miles apart.

461
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: Now, Bill Slater put that in your mind. The two towns, Pullman.

462
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 2: And Moscow are only ten miles apart, So really quick

463
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 2: drive compared to his long, circuitous route he took home

464
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 2: when he turned his cell.

465
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: Phone back on.

466
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 2: Another curious thing about the stalking and everybody, I want

467
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 2: you to jump in. According to data we've heard about,

468
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 2: cell phone data is placing him in and around the

469
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 2: murder scene multiple times before the murders, so that could

470
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 2: constitute a stalking claim. The defense will have a perfectly

471
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 2: innocent sounding excuse for that. But it is curious, is

472
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 2: it not? If not probative proves something that he was

473
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 2: going back and forth by their home and then suddenly

474
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 2: they're dead and he's out looking at the stars. So

475
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 2: what about that route that they are claiming to build

476
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 2: slater If there's only ten miles between the two spots

477
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 2: where he was allegedly looking at the stars and the

478
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 2: murder scene, can a cell phone tower differentiate between the

479
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 2: two locations?

480
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 11: Yes, absolutely it can, And it's come to light since

481
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 11: the whole Edward Snowden thing of twenty fourteen that the

482
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 11: only time your cell phone is not tracking you is

483
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 11: when you take the battery out, and a lot of

484
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 11: people are unaware of that, Nancy. They think if they

485
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 11: turn their cell phone out off that they're not trackable,

486
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:15,479
Speaker 11: and that's not true. The only way that device cannot

487
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 11: track you on towers is to remove the battery so

488
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 11: they can't talk to the towers.

489
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: The judge double down on Coburger in court in the

490
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: last hour, saying you've got to give us a witness or.

491
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 2: The evidence you're bringing on to corroborate this, what do

492
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 2: I think It is no witness at all. It's going

493
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 2: to be cell phone data, The defense claims places Coburger

494
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 2: somewhere entirely different than the King wrote address. Isn't it true,

495
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 2: Caitlin Hornick, that Coburger we can prove turned his phone

496
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 2: off and on the night.

497
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: Of the murders.

498
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 8: Just a yes, no, yes, absolutely.

499
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: Two forty two. His phone is on at his apartment

500
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: in Pullman. I went there.

501
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 2: It's about an eight minute drive from the murder scene,

502
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 2: eight to twelve minutes. To forty seven, he turns his

503
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 2: phone off. Who on this panel turns your phone off

504
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 2: when you're going driving in the middle of the night.

505
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 2: I would keep mine on just in case I had

506
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: a nine to one one. Anyway, he turns his off.

507
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 2: We know that, and that is irrefutable. I'm gonna circle

508
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 2: back in a moment to Bill Slater, who says, you

509
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 2: got to take your battery out of your phone to

510
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 2: be untraceable just turning it off. Hey, we know you're

511
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 2: doing that. To forty seven.

512
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: This guy is up and about turning his phone off.

513
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: Three point twenty nine.

514
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 2: Not cell phone, but video surveillance from a nearby home.

515
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 2: A residence shows a white sedan passing the King Road

516
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 2: address that looks oops just.

517
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: Like his white Elantra.

518
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 2: For zero four, the sedan returns and stops in front

519
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 2: of the King Road address. Four twenty sixteen minutes later,

520
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 2: the white sedan scratches off, taking off.

521
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: Like a bat out of Hell at a high speed,

522
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: leaving the King Road address.

523
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 2: And then twenty eight minutes later, and for me, it

524
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 2: was about an hour drive four forty eight a m.

525
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 2: Twenty eight minutes later, that phone is turned back on

526
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 2: and it's pinging south of Moscow, Idaho State Highway ninety five.

527
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: I took that drive Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

528
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 2: To Professor Forensics Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath

529
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 2: My Feet on Amazon, star of a hit series, Body Back,

530
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 2: and most important for me right now, FORENS expert and

531
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 2: death investigator Joe Scott.

532
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: He's between a rock and a hard spot.

533
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 2: I want you to analyze everything Slater has told us,

534
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 2: but also we are poking a little bit of fun

535
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 2: at the moon and the stargazing alibi. But think about it,

536
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 2: what else is Anne Taylor, the defense lawyer, gonna say

537
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 2: he was the party with all of his friends that

538
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 2: ain't happening.

539
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: They got to come up with something to make sense

540
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: to a jury why he may have been out driving around.

541
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 2: The only thing they can do is refute the cell

542
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 2: phone data because that video surveillance.

543
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: I don't think it's Scott is car tagged.

544
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 10: No, it doesn't. But that's all they can do, Nancy,

545
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 10: isn't it? You know, when you begin to think about it,

546
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 10: they can. They're money in the waters with all of

547
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 10: this digital back and forth. Here's the one thing that

548
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 10: they cannot overcome. Get this number in your mind, five

549
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 10: point three seven octillion that goes to his DNA profile.

550
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,439
Speaker 10: That means that the chances that it was somebody else

551
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 10: are at that range. It's amazing, isn't it. It came

552
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 10: off of the snap, Nancy.

553
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,320
Speaker 1: That's exactly where the DNA was found.

554
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 10: Yeah, and I don't think that he was necessarily, you know,

555
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 10: planning on this, But listen, I don't know if you

556
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 10: could hear that, but this has got and I'm fascinated

557
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 10: by this. I have been since the case. This little

558
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 10: ring right here where the snap actually actuates, it's a ridge,

559
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 10: and so if you're actuating it with your thumb and

560
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 10: you drag your thumb across it. Anything can be collected

561
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 10: in here. We think about touch DNA. If he's got sweat,

562
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 10: you know, that's coming off of his hand, it could

563
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 10: be deposited there. Both are sources for DNA, ones richer

564
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 10: than the other. But you know, when you begin to

565
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 10: think about these numbers, Nancy, and just to put it

566
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 10: in perspective, I'm not a real fine math guy, but

567
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 10: that's twenty twenty seven zero's, Nancy. That's an amazing number.

568
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 10: And so the reason I'm saying this is that I

569
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 10: don't think they have anything else. And they can parade

570
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 10: all of the experts up there that they want to,

571
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 10: but the one thing you can't get away from at

572
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,720
Speaker 10: the end of the day. Yeah, they don't have the knife,

573
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 10: but they've got this sheath and his DNA is on it.

574
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 10: And that's a heck of a mountain for them to

575
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 10: have to climb, you know, relative to this. And one

576
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 10: more thing, and I'll shut my mouth. The brutality of this.

577
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 10: You know, you use the term he murdered for people

578
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 10: a little while ago, Nancy. This was not murder. This

579
00:35:53,320 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 10: was pure on butchery using this combat knife as a

580
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,720
Speaker 10: k bar. This is something that our troopers have used

581
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,760
Speaker 10: since just prior to World War Two. Marines are famous

582
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 10: for it. It's a combat knife. It's a fighting knife,

583
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 10: all right, It's made for that purpose. And there when

584
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 10: all of that is said and done, and we see

585
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 10: the interior of that house and we see what kind

586
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 10: of butchery was perpetrated on these poor kids, they better

587
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 10: damn well have something else because that dog ain't gonna

588
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 10: hunt because the jury is gonna be put into position

589
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 10: to observe all of this, and then you're gonna get

590
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 10: somebody with a PhD in DNA sciences and they're gonna

591
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 10: put them up on the stand. And I don't know.

592
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 10: I don't know what the defense can put up there

593
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 10: that can thwart that particular attack on the part of

594
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 10: the defense.

595
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 1: Hey, Scott, you've testified it in so many cases.

596
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 2: And when I would prepare cases for trial, I'll get

597
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 2: my own case ready rock solid, right then I would

598
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 2: think about what they were going to do and how

599
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 2: I could fight it. Do you remember under Reagan he

600
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 2: came up with the Star Wars defense. We were going

601
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 2: to shoot down missiles before they ever hit our homeland,

602
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 2: the US. That's what I try to do so I'm thinking,

603
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 2: what are they going to do and how can I

604
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 2: destroy it? They are going to attack the DNA, the

605
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 2: science itself, which you know five point three seven Octilian.

606
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 2: I think it's more people that have ever in history

607
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 2: that we know. I've lived on Earth, right, Okay, so

608
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 2: it's him. But what they could do is attack DNA

609
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,720
Speaker 2: science in general. But they could attack chain of custody

610
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 2: of the DNA. They are likely to pull an OJ

611
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 2: claiming that OJ Simpson claiming that the cops wanted a

612
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 2: defendant so badly they decided to depend it on Coburger,

613
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 2: but also the placement of the knife and the genesis

614
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 2: of the knife, Scott. They could claim, hey, yeah, I

615
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 2: went to a gun and knife show and I.

616
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: Picked up a knife like that and I tested.

617
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 2: It and I put it back and some other dude,

618
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 2: I always use a sod defense.

619
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: Some other dude did it. Must have used that knife.

620
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: That's where they're going to go.

621
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 10: I think, yeah, I agree with you, and I've thought

622
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 10: I've put a lot of thought into that relative to

623
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 10: gun and knife shows, you know, and the idea that

624
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 10: he would randomly and you know, you guys in law

625
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 10: use this term reasonableness is that reasonable?

626
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 2: Nancy to Bill Slater, a cybersecurity expert, jump in, Bill.

627
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 11: Yeah, I've studied this case a great deal and it's

628
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 11: occurred to me from the very beginning that not only

629
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 11: was he a PhD candidate in criminology, I think the

630
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 11: mindset of the young man was that he was going

631
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 11: to commit the perfect crime and get away with it.

632
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 11: So I think people are this is not a normal person.

633
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 11: This is a person that had iudied crime extensively and

634
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 11: knew what succeeded and what didn't succeed. So we're not

635
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 11: talking about a normal individual here. He knows our criminals think,

636
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 11: you know.

637
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,839
Speaker 2: Joe Scott jumping off what Bill Slater said, I want

638
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 2: to talk about very quickly, the nav system. The twenty

639
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 2: fifteen Ilantra that Coburger was driving had an optional repeat

640
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 2: optional nav system navigation system, and we just saw what

641
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 2: a nav system can do in court with Alex murdog right,

642
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 2: it destroyed the defense placing him at the crime scene

643
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 2: at the time of the murders.

644
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: So what do you do with that? What can we

645
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: improve with the nav system?

646
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 10: Joe Scott, Well, when they do the data dump on

647
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 10: this thing, and again, you know, parse out all of

648
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 10: that information that the car is recording. There's no way

649
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 10: to really shut this thing off. It's going to be

650
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 10: I think that it's going to be damning information. It's

651
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:04,280
Speaker 10: interesting that that did not come up in this alibi issue.

652
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,399
Speaker 10: You know, we're talking about phones and all these sorts

653
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 10: of things. So I think that that's going to be

654
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 10: a big piece of this to validate, to validate their suppositions.

655
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 2: So we're waiting to find out if that Elantri did

656
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 2: have a NOV system. We're understanding that the twenty fifteen's

657
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 2: NOV system optional. But you know what, I think I'll

658
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 2: go out tonight and gaze at the mint of the

659
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 2: stars and try to figure it out. Let's stop and

660
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 2: remember American hero Lance Corporal Donovan Davis.

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00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: Just twenty one.

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00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 2: Lance Corporal Donovan Davis died in a helicopter crash with

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00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:47,760
Speaker 2: four other Marines Feb Seven, twenty four. He leaves behind

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00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 2: a loving family, father, Greg, sister of Madison. American hero

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00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 2: Lance Corporal Donovan Davis. I want to thank all of

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00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 2: our guests for being with us tonight, but especially to

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00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 2: you for being with us tonight and every night. Nancy

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00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 2: Gray signing off I'll see you tomorrow night six, at

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00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 2: nine o'clock sharp Eastern end.

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00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: Until then, good night friend,