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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome back to Killer Thriller DOCU Edition. I

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Speaker 1: am Jen Fessler. So what happens when your nightmare isn't

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Speaker 1: something you can wake up from? For actress Eva LaRue,

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Speaker 1: what began as a deeply disturbing experience with a stalker

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Speaker 1: became a year's long ordeal that affected her sense of safety,

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Speaker 1: her family, her career, and the way she moved through

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Speaker 1: the world. Now Eva is telling that story in the

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Speaker 1: documentary My Nightmare Stalker, the Evil LaRue story, taking viewers

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Speaker 1: inside and experience that is frightening, not just because of

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Speaker 1: what happened, but because of how difficult it can be

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Speaker 1: to know where the line is between harassment, obsession, and

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Speaker 1: a genuine threat. So I have been a fan of

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Speaker 1: Eva's for a long time. I watched her on General

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Speaker 1: Hospital and then CSI Miami. I had no idea till

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Speaker 1: I watched the documentary what she has been through. It

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Speaker 1: was quite incredible to see her resilience. I am really

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Speaker 1: really excited to talk to her and to talk about

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Speaker 1: her beautiful daughter, Kaya, who was also tormented. So you, guys,

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Speaker 1: without further ado, Hello miss Eva.

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Speaker 2: How are you? Thanks for having me?

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Speaker 1: How am I? I'm okay. I have to tell you.

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Speaker 1: I finished the documentary and was I felt not okay

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Speaker 1: for a little while.

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Speaker 2: I was.

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Speaker 1: It was so hard to watch, just upsetting and also

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Speaker 1: because I'm a fan I have been for so long.

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Speaker 1: I watched you on all my children and CSI, and

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Speaker 1: I had no idea what you had been through. Did

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Speaker 1: people know? Was it just me that had was the

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Speaker 1: story out at all before the doc.

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Speaker 3: No, it really wasn't. It was only my close friends

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Speaker 3: and family who knew. I never went public with it

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Speaker 3: because I felt because not knowing who he was and

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Speaker 3: not being able to find out who he was literally

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Speaker 3: technology had not caught up.

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Speaker 2: With us at that point.

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Speaker 3: I didn't want to give him the glory that he

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Speaker 3: was dying for.

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to give him any.

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Speaker 3: Publicity, that any of the publicity that he wanted, or

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Speaker 3: any more connection or let him feel any more connection

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Speaker 3: or closeness. I just thought that that might activate him

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Speaker 3: even further. So until we found out.

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Speaker 2: Who he was.

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Speaker 3: That was the first time that we actually went to

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Speaker 3: public with it.

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Speaker 1: Was that hard to obviously it was hard. How could

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Speaker 1: it not have been hard? But to walk through life,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's so many people in your face interviewing

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Speaker 1: you about your career, the shows, and you have that

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Speaker 1: that weight just you know, hanging on your should. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how you did it. I really don't. That

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Speaker 1: was part of what amazed me is how you manage,

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Speaker 1: especially when it came to your beautiful daughter, but the

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Speaker 1: way that you managed to walk through it for years

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Speaker 1: with such grace. I was really I was very struck

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Speaker 1: by that. You know, not an easy thing, not an

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Speaker 1: easy task. Friend.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 3: And it's it's interesting because when we screened the documentary,

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Speaker 3: and I had had about fifty friends and family that came,

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Speaker 3: some flew out from all over the place to.

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Speaker 2: Watch our you know, the documentary kind of premiere.

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Speaker 3: And even my closest friends and family members were like,

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Speaker 3: oh my god, we didn't even know all the details

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Speaker 3: of it.

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Speaker 2: Because at one at one point, you feel like you're

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Speaker 2: the girl that's crying wolf.

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Speaker 3: Because and I've had so many people who've had who

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Speaker 3: have been in stocker situations say the same thing, because

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Speaker 3: a stalker is sort of this non crime, right because

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Speaker 3: it hasn't happened yet, but it's the crime that is

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Speaker 3: always It's like death by a thousand cuts.

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Speaker 1: I mean, evidence obviously by the sentence that he got,

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Speaker 1: which we could talk about later. He was sentenced and

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Speaker 1: obviously went to jail, but it felt so inadequate to me.

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Speaker 1: We'll get into that.

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Speaker 2: Oh inadequate. Yeah, let's put a pin in that put

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Speaker 2: definitely right.

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Speaker 3: But that whole time, I never kept everybody in my

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Speaker 3: circle abreast of every single bit of information, every single

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Speaker 3: thing that happened, because I kind of equate it to

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Speaker 3: you know, if you have a disease or an illness,

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Speaker 3: or you have, God forbid, you have cancer or something,

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Speaker 3: and instead of every time you talk to your friends

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Speaker 3: and family, you're like.

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Speaker 2: So the cancer is doing this to me, now, you

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Speaker 2: know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: You kind of stopped talking about it unless really big

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Speaker 3: things happen, like really big milds, you know, like.

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Speaker 2: Like traumatic things.

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Speaker 1: Were you in therapy?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we were both in therapy during it, and even

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Speaker 3: when we were doing the documentary, we were both really like,

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Speaker 3: you know, had our therapist on speed dial because kind

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Speaker 3: of reliving all that while Cathartic was also reliving all

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Speaker 3: of that, and neither of us had really talked about it,

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Speaker 3: even to each other that in depthly. Really, Yeah, because

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Speaker 3: you know, people aren't normally asking you those kind of

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Speaker 3: in depth questions, and a lot of those things were igniting.

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Speaker 2: Things that we hadn't even really thought about ourselves.

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Speaker 1: You know, even I there were so many things that

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Speaker 1: were striking about the documentary. But your daughter, I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously she came from you, but I don't at her

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Speaker 1: young age, the strength that she showed dealing with this lunatic.

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Speaker 3: And her particulation was really yes, because again, you know,

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Speaker 3: you're not we're not talking about.

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Speaker 2: This at the dinner table every night.

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Speaker 3: We're not talking about unfortunately, we're not talking about our

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Speaker 3: feelings about it over the course of those twelve years.

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Speaker 3: I mean, in the in the absolute fear inducing situations

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Speaker 3: we are. We're more talking at each other and at

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Speaker 3: other people, but we're not like I guess we never

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Speaker 3: afterwards would say.

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Speaker 2: Okay, like you know, I mean, would say how are

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Speaker 2: you doing? And how are you feel?

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Speaker 3: You know, obviously Mom, you're you're there for all of

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Speaker 3: their feelings, but you're also not asking these weirder, darker questions.

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Speaker 2: Like what did you imagine? What happened? Do you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean? I never asked my daughter, what did

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Speaker 2: you imagine?

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Speaker 1: What happened, she said there was, yes, when she said

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Speaker 1: she was afraid of coming home and you were going

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Speaker 1: to be I don't remember exactly decapitated, and that she

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Speaker 1: was going he was going to hold her as a

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Speaker 1: sex slave. And I am listening to this beautiful young

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Speaker 1: woman think I'm thinking about the fact that she had

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Speaker 1: uphold that Ryan her young mind ran just can't even

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Speaker 1: And I had.

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Speaker 3: No idea that's even what she was going through life

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Speaker 3: imagining until our one of our US attorneys asked her

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Speaker 3: that question, said, but what did you did you you know,

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Speaker 3: in your wildest imaginings, what did you imagine what happened?

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Speaker 3: And I had never asked her that question, maybe because

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Speaker 3: I was hoping.

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Speaker 2: That it wasn't.

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Speaker 3: Living right, Yeah, right, I get that I was gonna

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Speaker 3: want to traumatize her more by saying, what are you imagining?

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Speaker 2: Could have? Yes?

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Speaker 1: You know, God, it was so complicated. How did you

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Speaker 1: when you close your eyes a night, did you do

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Speaker 1: the same? Are you imagining specifics? Like then? You playing

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Speaker 1: out these yes scenarios?

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Speaker 2: And that's the thing. You really become a prisoner of

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Speaker 2: your own mind.

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Speaker 3: Because these crimes have not happened to you yet, and

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Speaker 3: they haven't happened to your daughter yet, but you are

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Speaker 3: living every possibility in your head. So you become your

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Speaker 3: own corator, you know what I mean, You are your

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Speaker 3: own prisoner, because of course you're the one thinking of

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Speaker 3: all the possible ways that could get in, all the

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Speaker 3: possible things that could happen. You're always looking for the

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Speaker 3: escape route or the possible way to get out of

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Speaker 3: a situation or save your daughter or so you're living

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Speaker 3: in a constant state of heightened, heightened fear, of course.

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Speaker 3: And then what's really interesting is when people have said

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Speaker 3: and you know, while while it's beautiful and I and

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Speaker 3: I appreciate it and I'm grateful for it, when people

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Speaker 3: are like, you were so brave, You're so courage to

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Speaker 3: live through this stuff, it it doesn't feel like any

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Speaker 3: of that. Why because it's not what you don't set

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Speaker 3: out in the morning to say, I'm going to be

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Speaker 3: brave and I'm going to be courageous and I'm going

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Speaker 3: to live through this. You are just as a mom

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Speaker 3: getting up and going through the motions because that's what you.

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Speaker 2: Have to do. You're not I totally get brave in

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Speaker 2: the moment. You Okay, you're just having to be because

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Speaker 2: you know what, as moms, we just kind of have to.

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Speaker 3: It's it's not something that you choose, it's just something

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Speaker 3: you have to do.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate that, but I do think that you had options.

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Speaker 1: You could have curled up in a ball. And I

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Speaker 1: don't know that. I okay, So.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if it's even an option.

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Speaker 1: I can I can imagine that there are lots of women.

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Speaker 1: Of course, I picture if you know, this happened to

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Speaker 1: me and I have a daughter as well, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know you functioned right through it, and I don't listen.

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Speaker 1: I get it what you're saying, and as a mother barrier,

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Speaker 1: but I guess I don't know. To me, I was

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Speaker 1: very surprised at the fact that you didn't withdraw into

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Speaker 1: yourself and and go somewhere or move somewhere or run.

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Speaker 1: You didn't do anything.

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Speaker 2: Well, we we did. We had to move three times.

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Speaker 1: Right, But I'm saying you could have moved out of

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Speaker 1: the country. You could have. There's I feel like there

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Speaker 1: were things that you didn't. I didn't at least the

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Speaker 1: way it came across to me. I didn't see you

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Speaker 1: missing your life even though you were tortured, right, but

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Speaker 1: you were still in it. You were still working, you

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Speaker 1: were still being a mom. Thank god, your daughter was

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Speaker 1: still going to school. And you know, having.

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Speaker 3: People to say to me too, other people who've had

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Speaker 3: who've been stocked, like you're speaking exactly to the point

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Speaker 3: of stalking victims. It's it's awesome because so many people

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Speaker 3: that I've met and have told me their stories have said,

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Speaker 3: my life got smaller. I had to get smaller. I

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Speaker 3: had to give up so many things because I was

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Speaker 3: afraid of being killed. Because I met two different people

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Speaker 3: who were entertainers, one that was a singer, one that

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Speaker 3: was in a band. They gave up their their careers

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Speaker 3: because they weren't big. They weren't really famous people that

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Speaker 3: you would know, but they were. They had a fantastic

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Speaker 3: career in their town being in a in a you know,

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Speaker 3: like they were getting hired by a lot of weddings.

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Speaker 3: They were a big wedding band or you know, event band,

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Speaker 3: and were very successful.

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Speaker 2: They stopped.

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Speaker 1: But you were, and you were and are a big

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Speaker 1: celebrity and you didn't stop. And I don't know, listen,

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Speaker 1: brave not brave. I'm amazed by it. I'm amazed at

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Speaker 1: the way you function through it, you know, and I thinking,

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Speaker 1: like everybody says, the secret to life is to live

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Speaker 1: in the present right and to not worry about what's

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Speaker 1: coming or what's you can to How do you live?

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Speaker 1: How do you do that? Like you're totally screwed, you

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Speaker 1: can't be How how do you how are you present

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Speaker 1: in a world where you know there is you're reminded

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Speaker 1: constantly in the most heinous ways that you are that

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Speaker 1: there's a threat to you and to your daughter. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, how do you do that? Right? And if

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Speaker 1: that's the only that's the key to happiness, you're kind of.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I really learned to compartmentalize it.

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Speaker 3: While it's always, you know, an operating system in your

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Speaker 3: body and in your mind, it's it has to go

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Speaker 3: into its own compartment or otherwise you.

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Speaker 2: Just cannot you just can't function.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but it is always in your operating system, and

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Speaker 3: it's always working in your body, like you're you know what.

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Speaker 3: That first year that it was happening, my hair was

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Speaker 3: falling out and clump, my.

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Speaker 2: Eyelashes were falling out. It was so weird.

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Speaker 3: I was working on CSI and I was having to

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Speaker 3: wear false eyelashes because they were coming out in clumps.

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Speaker 3: I had broken out in like this hive rash all

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Speaker 3: over my chin and my neck, and I'd never had

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Speaker 3: anything like that before. I was I like, my stomach

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Speaker 3: and my everything was a shambles.

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Speaker 2: And it really took me that first year to it.

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Speaker 1: Was an acclimate to it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but it's like that's just so part of

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Speaker 2: your operation system. It just has to go into a compartment.

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Speaker 1: I was so like everybody who is will has watched

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Speaker 1: the documentary disgusted by those letters. You know, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I've never seen anything like that person. You hear about stalkers.

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Speaker 1: You hear about celebrity stalkers. So and so showed up

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Speaker 1: at so and so's house, right, climbed the gate.

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Speaker 3: But this stalking and we'll probably never know what was

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Speaker 3: exactly in their minds, right because they showed up, they

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Speaker 3: broken and we hear about these break ins where they're

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Speaker 3: actually and these are celebrities that have so every bit

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Speaker 3: of money.

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Speaker 2: At their disposal, right and they still got it.

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Speaker 3: Not me, by the way, but they and they still

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Speaker 3: get in they have Because I've had so many people.

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Speaker 2: Say, well didn't you have like incredible security, didn't you have? Sure?

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Speaker 3: I had great, but I didn't even have that level

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Speaker 3: of security. And people are able to break into Brad

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Speaker 3: Pitt's house and be sleeping in his bed when he

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Speaker 3: comes home. Sandra Bullock was like two years ago, wasn't

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Speaker 3: she hiding in her antry when somebody was in her kitchen?

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Speaker 2: Like Jennifer and like you know, Gwyneth Paltrow.

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Speaker 3: And the interesting thing is they were, which is even scarier.

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Speaker 3: They were there in person, like you know, terrorizing them

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Speaker 3: in person.

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Speaker 2: But what we don't know is what their.

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Speaker 3: Stalkers were actually thinking, what their stalkers and we will

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Speaker 3: never know what their stockers wanted to do in detail.

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Speaker 3: I knew what my stalker wanted to do in detail,

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Speaker 3: so I knew if he showed up it was going

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Speaker 3: to be And even when you see him at the

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Speaker 3: end of the documentary, people are like, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: But when you see him you can see that obviously

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Speaker 3: he wouldn't have been able to run up on you.

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Speaker 2: Who says that.

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Speaker 1: Many people have said, well, at least have the stock Sorry,

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Speaker 1: that is the dumbest thing. I can't believe that. And

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Speaker 1: what we say, like, oh, you have to have as a.

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Speaker 2: Gun, stupid.

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Speaker 3: You don't have to be like lithe and strong and

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Speaker 3: fit to be able to shoot somebody.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no nobody, no heavy set old man has

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Speaker 1: ever hurt anyone. Right, That is the dumbest thing I've

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Speaker 1: ever heard, as a matter of fact. As a matter

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Speaker 1: of fact, when I saw what he looked like, I

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Speaker 1: found him even scarier and creepier.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And the fact that he worked in a in a

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Speaker 3: as a nurse, right in a memory care facility where

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Speaker 3: the people would not know or remember to or even

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Speaker 3: be able to report any kind of sexual abuse.

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Speaker 1: Or sexual one of my one of my many questions,

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Speaker 1: right that I wanted to ask, have you been contacted

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Speaker 1: by any of those people when they found out?

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Speaker 2: I don't think they found out until now.

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Speaker 3: Until now, and I'm very and no one's ever told

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Speaker 3: me what has happened.

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Speaker 2: And if you can imagine, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, these nurses in the nursing homes that are taking

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Speaker 3: care of our family members, we love them, We consider

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Speaker 3: them heroes and angels for taking care of our loved

302
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Speaker 3: ones these ways. So there had to have been families

303
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Speaker 3: that actually told like loved him.

304
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Speaker 1: And trust that's hard to even yeah, fathom. Yeah, you

305
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Speaker 1: first get you get the first letter. Obviously it was

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Speaker 1: I'm sure terrifying, upsetting, all of that. I can't imagine

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Speaker 1: that you thought this is going to go on now

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Speaker 1: for twelve years. You get the first letter, you share it. Obviously,

309
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Speaker 1: your very sweet brother knew about it, right, the people

310
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Speaker 1: around you, and I'm sure you didn't expect this to

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Speaker 1: you know, go on and on and on, but it did.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever just not say did I don't want

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Speaker 1: to see them, read them, don't tell me when they come? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you did do that.

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Speaker 2: I knew when they came, but I stopped.

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Speaker 1: Why did you tell that you wanted to know when

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Speaker 1: they came?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, yeah, I wanted to know when they came.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to know the frequency.

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Speaker 3: And sometimes they would be coming fast and furious for

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Speaker 3: you know, like they'd be three in a week for

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Speaker 3: a month, and then he would disappear for a couple

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Speaker 3: of months and I wouldn't hear from him, and then

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Speaker 3: would get kind of excited, like maybe he just I

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Speaker 3: don't know, maybe he died, died, yeah, maybe.

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Speaker 2: He yeah, maybe he just moved on.

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Speaker 3: Maybe he got on some nice meds and his normal

328
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Speaker 3: I don't.

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Speaker 2: Know, or stalking someone else or stalking someone else.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and so he would disappear and come to find

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Speaker 3: out he was stalking some other people.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, they wouldn't come forward during the trial.

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Speaker 3: And I don't and I think one, at least one

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Speaker 3: of them was beyond the statute of limitations. So I

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Speaker 3: think he had stopped with that person, and then another

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Speaker 3: girl would not come forward. I think she was afraid

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Speaker 3: of reinciting you know, maybe given up on her and

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Speaker 3: she didn't want to reincite it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I get it, I get it.

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Speaker 2: He would have gotten a longer time, a longer sentence.

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Speaker 1: That must kill you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the the the most he could have gotten was

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Speaker 3: seven years.

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Speaker 1: Which I was, he's already that's already.

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Speaker 2: Right, seven years. But the thing is there was two

346
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Speaker 2: of us. Were we not worth two sentences?

347
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Speaker 1: God?

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Speaker 2: Why not seven and seven? Nope? We got three?

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Speaker 1: And how is the hell he's out? He's out now?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he's been out. He's out. And he was

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Speaker 2: supposed to have a how long was he in for

352
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Speaker 2: three and a half years?

353
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Speaker 3: And then he was supposed to have a three year

354
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Speaker 3: probation But he's on to me off probation in like

355
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Speaker 3: eight months, he's almost through that now.

356
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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to ask you this, but

357
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Speaker 1: I feel like it's I have to. It's sort of

358
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Speaker 1: my job. But like, how are you dealing with the

359
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Speaker 1: fact that he is now entering society or he actually

360
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Speaker 1: he's already here. How are you dealing with that?

361
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Speaker 3: Well, evidently if he were to reach out or even

362
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,880
Speaker 3: follow us on social media or anything like that, right now,

363
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,560
Speaker 3: he would go back to jail. But in eight months

364
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,920
Speaker 3: it would just be considered a whole brand new case,

365
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Speaker 3: like he'd have to be caught again if he did

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Speaker 3: something he'd have to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So in.

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Speaker 3: Eight months, he's like I've heard from other women who've

369
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Speaker 3: been through like major stocking cases in their stocker has

370
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Speaker 3: been already sentenced, they came out and continued stocking them.

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Speaker 1: So what's the How are you give a plan here?

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Speaker 1: I mean, are you just like, are you done being

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Speaker 1: afraid of this piece of shit? Are you going to?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

375
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Speaker 3: And now I have I have like friends in very

376
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Speaker 3: high FBI places, So I love that. I think I'm

377
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:45,400
Speaker 3: not sure it would be a matter of who gets

378
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Speaker 3: to who first.

379
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the thing is now we know and now

380
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Speaker 2: I know where he lives.

381
00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,560
Speaker 1: Sorry, yeah, sorry, not sorry?

382
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:53,960
Speaker 2: Yeah good?

383
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,240
Speaker 1: What about Kayas? How's she handling it?

384
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're I mean, it's it's just it's all of

385
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:05,000
Speaker 3: those own unknowns that are scary. You know, it's all

386
00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 3: of the you know, we're we did the documentary obviously,

387
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:13,160
Speaker 3: that's poking the bear. We we have a lifetime project

388
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,080
Speaker 3: that they're going to be doing the future, you know,

389
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:16,320
Speaker 3: the movie version of it.

390
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:17,399
Speaker 1: I did not know that.

391
00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we're working on that now. It's being written.

392
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,360
Speaker 3: We're hoping to shoot it by the end of this year.

393
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:23,840
Speaker 1: I'm assuming you're playing yourself.

394
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to play myself, which is interesting, Oh

395
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:27,520
Speaker 3: my god.

396
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:28,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

397
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:29,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a little scary now, but all.

398
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,359
Speaker 3: Of it's like poking the bear, right, I just but

399
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,359
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna the thing is just being alive is

400
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:36,960
Speaker 3: poking the bear.

401
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,919
Speaker 1: So I'm I can't help but whatever. You know that.

402
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of you.

403
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:42,000
Speaker 2: Oh thank you.

404
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,520
Speaker 3: It's been really a gift to be able to turn

405
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:51,639
Speaker 3: it around and all of those years that we couldn't speak,

406
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,199
Speaker 3: all of there's years that we didn't have a voice,

407
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,760
Speaker 3: and being able to do it now has been incredibly

408
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 3: cathartic for both of us.

409
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Speaker 1: Kaya Now, maybe you don't even want to say. I

410
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 1: was going to ask you about her situation. Did she

411
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,760
Speaker 1: I'm sure she lives close to you, yeah, wherever you are,

412
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:10,159
Speaker 1: and I don't know if she's.

413
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,439
Speaker 3: We're in Los Angeles and she's got a really great boyfriend. Yes,

414
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 3: and yeah, she loves a job and she's traveling a lot,

415
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:20,480
Speaker 3: which is great. And I mean the sad thing was

416
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 3: right after the stalker was caught, about four months later,

417
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 3: her dad died suddenly and unexpectedly.

418
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,080
Speaker 1: So that was I was going to ask you about it.

419
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had hit with a lot in that one year.

420
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,320
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, the way you spoke about her

421
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:37,520
Speaker 1: dad was really beautiful.

422
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were really great friends.

423
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 1: Still, the way you spoke about John was just beautiful

424
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,200
Speaker 1: and so nice that I guess you were still able

425
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:44,480
Speaker 1: to be.

426
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:45,679
Speaker 2: And we were still great friends.

427
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 1: We were really I wanted to ask you how did

428
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,159
Speaker 1: he handle all this? Did he ever say let her

429
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 1: come live with me? You know, what were those discussions?

430
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,359
Speaker 3: He lived two hour a two hour drive from us,

431
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,640
Speaker 3: so he lived in out in Palm Desert.

432
00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,560
Speaker 1: I remember from Yeah, the school.

433
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 3: Was living with me, But she went to his house

434
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,720
Speaker 3: pretty much every weekend or every other weekend.

435
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:06,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, all the way through high school.

436
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 3: So uh, in high school it became kind of every

437
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,560
Speaker 3: other weekend or every two weekends because you know, then

438
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,040
Speaker 3: they want to hang out with their friends, they want.

439
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 2: To do but of course, but then, and he had

440
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 2: his house broken into at one.

441
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 1: Point by stalker.

442
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,720
Speaker 3: No, but every time something happens, you think it's the stalker. Right,

443
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,720
Speaker 3: So he had he had his house burglarized.

444
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,640
Speaker 1: Actually, he must have been so scared for you guys. Yeah,

445
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 1: I mean he must have been. Yet that's a whole

446
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 1: other story, right, Like he.

447
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,119
Speaker 2: Is and there's nothing he can do that he can't

448
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 2: detail his daughter.

449
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, so okay, so you're dealing with all this. I

450
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 1: want to know. And I know you said that you

451
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,360
Speaker 1: do what you have to do, especially as a mother,

452
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 1: but there's has to be something here. I don't know

453
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,639
Speaker 1: about your parents. I don't know if you know we

454
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 1: saw your very lovely brother. How were you always strong?

455
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 1: And I'm again, I don't want to I don't want

456
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,159
Speaker 1: you to feel like I'm stroking you or anything. I

457
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,199
Speaker 1: know you did what you had to do, right, but

458
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 1: I don't think I think that a certain amount of

459
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 1: this you have to have a certain constitution. And I'm

460
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,200
Speaker 1: telling you, I really do believe that I personally could

461
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 1: not have handled it like you did at all. So

462
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,640
Speaker 1: I just I guess I'm just curious about your background.

463
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 1: Is your mother the kind of woman that knows so

464
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 1: well how to deal with adversity? Where did you get that?

465
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 2: Yeah?

466
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 3: I think they both My mom and my dad both

467
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 3: came from really you know, my mom didn't come from

468
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,679
Speaker 3: as tough a childhood, but I think her adulthood was

469
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 3: really troubled, and my dad really really persevered through a

470
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 3: terrible childhood, like terrible. So I think you know, all

471
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 3: of us, me and my siblings, we all had many siblings.

472
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 2: Well now there's five of us.

473
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,880
Speaker 3: We started out with four of us and then oddly

474
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:54,880
Speaker 3: enough through twenty three and me we got.

475
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 2: A fifth one about three years ago, which is gratulations,

476
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 2: thank you, But it's so weird.

477
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:04,640
Speaker 1: How DNA has I know, has been changing your life, so.

478
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 3: Prominent in my life and be chusing my life in

479
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 3: all these miraculous, incredible ways.

480
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 1: Yes, it was amazing to me when Steve and Steve

481
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 1: right Steve Squared and they came on and I don't know,

482
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 1: it was exhilarating, but it was also a little frustrating.

483
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: You'd been suffering for so long. And I know the

484
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 1: DNA well, you know, you're playing a detective in.

485
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 2: We're a DNA Specialist, which is for a DNA specialist.

486
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 1: But I guess that this was out there. It wasn't

487
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 1: out there for long. And but the ability to find

488
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 1: this bastard, you know, right.

489
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 2: Well, I mean the iron the crazy irony is here.

490
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 2: I was. I was playing a detective at.

491
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 3: A a DNA specialist. We're pretending to have the technology

492
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 3: that we didn't really have.

493
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 2: Of course I didn't realize we didn't have it.

494
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 3: I thought we had that technology because it seemed like

495
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 3: everything we were doing on CSI was current. But when

496
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 3: it came down to it, there really wasn't. COTIS is

497
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 3: the only entity for law enforcement that holds all of

498
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 3: the DNA samples that we would you know, trace against. Right,

499
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 3: So the only people that are in CODIS are people

500
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 3: who've already been processed for murder and right, right, So

501
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 3: like eighty six percent of those people that are in CODIS,

502
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 3: the DNA that's in COTIS, eighty six percent of them

503
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 3: are already in jail. The rest are John Doe, rape

504
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 3: kits and so. And the reason that there's still John

505
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 3: Doe is because they don't have any priors.

506
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 2: They've never been picked up for anything before, right, So they're.

507
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 3: Not going to get a match on those people until

508
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 3: they get picked up for a second rape or for

509
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 3: you know, or they actually get.

510
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: Caught or and then comes twenty three and meter.

511
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 2: But it was.

512
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 3: Twelve years before there was twenty before there was that

513
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 3: ancestry dot com or Jed Maatch.

514
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 2: It was going to be another twelve years. And even

515
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 2: so these two.

516
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 3: FBI, the two Steves, they here's the other thing that

517
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 3: I didn't know. So murder is not FBI jurisdiction.

518
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: What does that mean?

519
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 2: So local law.

520
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:11,479
Speaker 3: Enforcement like La County sheriffs, La County LAPD or wherever

521
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 3: you happen to live, your town they live in, they

522
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 3: investigate murders in their town.

523
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:17,679
Speaker 2: That is their jurisdiction.

524
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:23,360
Speaker 3: So murder it's you know, FBI looks at trafficking and

525
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 3: RICO cases and if murder is part of one of

526
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 3: those cases, it's still local law enforcement that is doing

527
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,360
Speaker 3: the actual investigation of that case. FBI can also come

528
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 3: help if it's part of their case. But murder by

529
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 3: itself is not part of an FBI case, so they

530
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 3: don't cover murder.

531
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 2: So isn't that interesting.

532
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 3: But they were fascinated with this Golden State killer case,

533
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 3: which was the most famous, you know, serial killer case

534
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 3: in California history. It's been forty three years cold case,

535
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 3: more than six thousand suspects. They had tons of DNA,

536
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 3: but this person had never been picked up for anything before,

537
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 3: so he was not in codis.

538
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 2: There was never a codis hit on him.

539
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 3: And these two FBI agents were just fascinated with the

540
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 3: case and why it had never been solved. They'd been

541
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,439
Speaker 3: following it, and so they picked up the phone and

542
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 3: called Paul Holes, which was the detective on the case.

543
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 3: He'd been the detective on the case for twenty five

544
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 3: years and never had any breaks, and he was getting

545
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,400
Speaker 3: ready to retire, and they called him and they said, hey,

546
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 3: you know, like out of curiosity, can we help you

547
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 3: with this case? On the side, we're just fascinated with it.

548
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 3: There might be something at FBI that we can use

549
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 3: or help they and he was like, yeah, sure, come

550
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 3: on in. So they it was not a formal investigation

551
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 3: by the FBI. I'd all, this is two guys who

552
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 3: on their weekends were helping this detective. And they were

553
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 3: the first ones to say, well, you know there's nothing

554
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 3: in codis, but what if we took all this DNA

555
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 3: and we uploaded it into twenty three and mes ancestry

556
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 3: jed match and see if.

557
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 2: We get a hit.

558
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 3: Already knowing that, of course, there's not a serial killer

559
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 3: on the planet that's going to upload his own DNA

560
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 3: and there, of course, but they're like, what if we

561
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 3: get a cousin, What if we get an aunt, what

562
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 3: if we get an uncle? What if we get something

563
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 3: like some little blood trail? And that's exactly what they did.

564
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 3: So they were the first ones to ever do that,

565
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 3: and they got a hit on a fifth cousin. And

566
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 3: then from there, you know, the genealogy tree like lights

567
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 3: up right, And then if you get a hit on

568
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 3: a fifth cousin, you know that this whole side of

569
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 3: the tree is void.

570
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 2: And now you start to work down the branches and

571
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 2: the leaves of this side of the genealogy.

572
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 3: Tree right until you get a hit, until you get

573
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 3: your match.

574
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: What's the guy that killed those beautiful four?

575
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, the students.

576
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 1: Yea, yeah, Brian Colberger, yeah and right, and then they

577
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: found him. They found relatives. I want to say it

578
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: was his parents, but I'm not. I don't remember exactly.

579
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 1: They get to their DNA, yeah, and that's how and

580
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: they sort of put that together. That was one of

581
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: the key pieces of evidence in that case. And it's

582
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 1: amazing because I have talked to doing this for a while.

583
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: We have talked to law enforcement producers. You would think

584
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: that now it would be so much easier to solve crimes,

585
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: right and to find perpetrators, and they say it's not.

586
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: And there are a bunch of reasons for that that

587
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: I don't really understand.

588
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 2: It's interesting. The guys just told me.

589
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 3: I have lunch with them usually like once a month.

590
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 3: I love them and they're amazing, and I picked their

591
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 3: brains on all the cases that they're working on currently

592
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 3: because I'm fascinated with it. And they were telling me

593
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 3: about a case that they were working on because even

594
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 3: once once they get down to that last leaf on

595
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 3: the branch where they know who it is because he

596
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 3: fits all the descriptions. He's related to the mom and

597
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 3: dad obviously, so it's got to be one of their children.

598
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 3: But of course, like the sister didn't do it because

599
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 3: she doesn't even live in that town where the murder happened.

600
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 3: You know, they there's all these other actenuating circumstances that

601
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 3: like lead you to the actual person. So once they

602
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 3: find the actual person, though, they still have to go

603
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 3: to get the DNA match.

604
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 2: So they'll follow them around.

605
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: Right, they got to the garbage can, they got his soda,

606
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: right yeah, in.

607
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,479
Speaker 3: My case, and in the Golden State killer case, they

608
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,959
Speaker 3: got his DNA off of his his car door handle.

609
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 3: In another case, they actually had some hot girl. They

610
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 3: they gave her money to walk up to this guy

611
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 3: in they'd followed him into them all and they said,

612
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 3: and she was like, hey, I totally love your baseball cap.

613
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 3: Can I like give you fifty bucks for your baseball cap?

614
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 3: I totally love it? And you know it's like my friends,

615
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 3: you know. Anyway, he gave her the baseball cap, and

616
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 3: of course they got the DNA out of the baseball cap.

617
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 3: Yes they do, or they've you know, they follow him everywhere.

618
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 3: They follow him into a bar, they pay the bartender

619
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 3: for his glass.

620
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: I wonder why it's not then, I wonder why these

621
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: crimes are and I don't know. I heard that statistic

622
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: so I could, but I mean no, but you're you're.

623
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 3: Right, because they are also telling me that that there

624
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 3: was a time that there was UH they were trying

625
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 3: to get they were trying to exonerate somebody because the

626
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 3: DNA evidence did.

627
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 2: Not match him, and now they had.

628
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 3: And he was being retried, retried or they brought the

629
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 3: case back up for for appeal. I think that was

630
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 3: what it was. And they needed the detective to go

631
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 3: to the prison because the there was somebody in prison

632
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 3: that they think had done it, but they needed his DNA.

633
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 3: So all he needed to do was go to the prison,

634
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 3: get the DNA from this person who was already incarcerated,

635
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 3: and then this other person would have been completely free

636
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 3: and exonerated. The local law enforcement department didn't want to

637
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 3: pay the overtime because it was going to be he

638
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 3: was going to pay. It was gonna he is going

639
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 3: to have to drive an hour to the prison and

640
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 3: an hour back and get the DNA sample, and they

641
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 3: wouldn't let him do it.

642
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 2: They wouldn't pay for it.

643
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 3: So that person is still sitting in jail for something

644
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 3: he did not do, and the other guy is already

645
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 3: in jail for murdering somebody else, so he's sitting in jail,

646
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 3: but he at least this guy would have been free.

647
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 3: So I think a lot of times there's also I

648
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 3: was like, wait a minute, wait a minute, are you

649
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 3: saying that criminals can go free too in this case

650
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 3: because they don't want to send somebody out because they

651
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 3: don't want to pay the time and a half or

652
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 3: they don't want to pay the overtime?

653
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 2: And he goes yeah.

654
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: I keep thinking because this documentary is different from so

655
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: many of the ones that I've now watched and so

656
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: many of the people I've spoken to, And what is

657
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: what the greatest part about doing what I do is

658
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: that a lot of times you see because of documentaries

659
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: like this, things changing, right and laws changing, And because

660
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: I didn't know before I watched your story that some

661
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: animal was only going to get three years who had

662
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: taken your life from you and from your daughter for

663
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: twelve and like what happens now? And how do you advocate?

664
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: You know, how do use how do you use this?

665
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 2: And really more than twelve?

666
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 3: Because you're absolutely right, it's like he got three years

667
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 3: and we got life.

668
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 2: Because there's never been a good time. As long as

669
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 2: he's alive, we will never not be in some state of.

670
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 3: It's not active fear, but it's in some heightened state

671
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 3: of fearfulness.

672
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: How do we advocate for you? Even, like I know,

673
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: that's just my question, Like what now? So how does?

674
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: I don't know? How does? And our listeners right, like,

675
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: are there are there people standing up for this and

676
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: saying this is not right? That you know this person

677
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: has ruined Eva's life? No, excuse me, No he has not.

678
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: You have a whole life to live, but has you know,

679
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 1: made it so brutal? And what now? Like how do

680
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: you change those laws? I don't know. I'm just asking, but.

681
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I do think it's it's it's doing this,

682
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 3: it's it's mean awareness.

683
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 2: What's what you're.

684
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 3: Doing is phenomenal because you are bringing awareness and what

685
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 3: you do, what you are doing is God's work.

686
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 2: What you are doing is I don't I listen.

687
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 3: You are giving a platform to the reasons that laws

688
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 3: need to change, giving a platform.

689
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: No, it's not me, it's it's it is it's you,

690
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: it's these directors, it's all of it. Like that's the

691
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: good news, because you know, true crime is people are

692
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: crazed about it, like they are obsessed with it.

693
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 2: They people fall asleep to it, which.

694
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: Is a fall asleep to it. I think that so.

695
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: And now for me, because I watch so much of it,

696
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: I do try to find in it like, Okay, it's

697
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: not just that it's there, It's not just stories. These

698
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: are real people. Like this ship happened because people you know,

699
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: through victims, and they lived through this horror as opposed

700
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: to just watching it and taking it in as entertainment.

701
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: But I do think that with true crime and with

702
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: the you know, obsession that our country has with it,

703
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: I do think that it is it's going to change

704
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 1: laws and and things. Can you know, come out of

705
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: the trauma that so many people have been through. I

706
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 1: like to tell myself that, Yeah, I like to have

707
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: you spoken to anybody about what the likelihood is now

708
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: that now that he went to jail, and now that

709
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: he knows that we know who he is, what does

710
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: that do in terms of the likelihood that he would

711
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: you know, try to not just come after you, but

712
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: you know, pursue this crazy uh yearning he has to

713
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: stalk and to and to hurt people.

714
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting because he when they arrested him. He

715
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 3: went through this. He tried to pull for like the

716
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 3: first six or seven months. He tried to pull the

717
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 3: insanity plea and blah blah blah.

718
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:23,479
Speaker 2: That didn't work.

719
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 3: And but he was evaluated by a whole slew of

720
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 3: psychologists and psychiatrists. And when we all went to court

721
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 3: and he gave us his blah blah blah, his excuse,

722
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 3: and he was talking about his childhood and you know,

723
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 3: how he'd been bullied, and I'm like, fucking get in line.

724
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 2: I don't want to kill people because I was bullied,

725
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 2: like really, like it's knock it off, right, and you

726
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 2: know that. I don't know. So anyway, he was talking about,

727
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 2: you know, he wished you'd been caught sooner, same.

728
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 3: Because then he would have gotten help sooner and he

729
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 3: would have gotten on medications.

730
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, honestly, Like you're saying it, I'm glad

731
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: you guys didn't show it in the documentary. I want

732
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: to puke a little bit as you're talking about it. Yeah,

733
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,919
Speaker 1: I whatever, I mean, yeah, but what do they say?

734
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: Do they say that now that he's well.

735
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 3: He was saying, you know, and now you know, thank god,

736
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 3: I've been able to get help because now I'm on medication,

737
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 3: the medication that I need that's right for me. And

738
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 3: now I don't have these episodes anymore. And you know,

739
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 3: now I'm now I'm all better.

740
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 2: So we also know that the second you go off

741
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 2: your meds, course you're not going to be better, of course,

742
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 2: And who's keeping you on your meds when you are

743
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 2: off probation?

744
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: So is he? Did they predict? Can they predict? I'm

745
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 1: sure there are other cases like this unfortunately, but can

746
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: they predict? You know what he's been through going to jail,

747
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: knowing that he's not anonymous anymore? Is all of that

748
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: helpful in terms of him being scared of getting caught again?

749
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 2: I don't know if I don't know when you're that

750
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 2: insane that there's any fear.

751
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think when you're off your when you are,

752
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,399
Speaker 3: you know, if he's off his meds, if these meds

753
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 3: are actually you know, suppressing all of these insane, depraved,

754
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 3: heinous thoughts, and if you are off of them, there's

755
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 3: nothing to make you fearful anymore, you know what I mean,

756
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 3: you're not in your right mind and so and the

757
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 3: other thing is no one's telling me obviously, nobody's going

758
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 3: to tell me if he has to see a therapist still,

759
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 3: or what that therapist is going to, that therapist is

760
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 3: not going to.

761
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 1: I can tell you that it's maddening.

762
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty maddening.

763
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

764
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: I mean maybe it's better in a sense.

765
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 3: It's funny that the therapist could come and talk about,

766
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 3: you know, they could talk about all the ways he's

767
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 3: been helped when he was there on the stand, but

768
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 3: they can't tell you.

769
00:37:58,280 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 2: Now.

770
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's all it all feels all it

771
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: just feels all wrong.

772
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 2: It all feels wrong. It's all wrong.

773
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 3: There really is nothing in place to actually prevent anything

774
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 3: from happening again. And there's nothing, there's no safeguards in

775
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 3: place for a victim.

776
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: I see stupid questions now, just because they're coming to

777
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: my mind. Do you go away to What kind of

778
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: prison was he in? Was it maximum security? Was it federal?

779
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 2: Was it No, it was federal. It was federal.

780
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 3: And then when they released him, you can tell from

781
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 3: the doc they released him like ten miles from my house,

782
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 3: and he'd never been to California. I didn't know in

783
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 3: that whole time he hadn't been to California. I didn't

784
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 3: know in those twelve years, because he would write that

785
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 3: he could see me, that he knew where we were,

786
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 3: that he was following all of us. We assumed he

787
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 3: was here, or at least flying back and forth. We

788
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 3: knew that the letters were coming from Ohio, but we

789
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 3: assumed maybe he was coming back and forth.

790
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 2: We didn't know. We had no we had no idea.

791
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 3: But in the end they released He'd never been to

792
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 3: Los Angeles, and they released him in Last Angelus. At

793
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 3: first they put him in a halfway house about three

794
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 3: miles from my brother's house, and then they put him

795
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 3: in his little permanent apartment about ten miles. For me,

796
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 3: they wouldn't tell me where he lived, though he could

797
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 3: probably find out where I lived, but I wasn't allowed

798
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:14,760
Speaker 3: to know where he lived.

799
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 2: And then I had to lobby.

800
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 3: His probation officers and the US attorneys and the court

801
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 3: to get him sent back home. And you know what

802
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 3: they told me were the criteria for his release, Well,

803
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 3: you know, we have to release him in a place

804
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 3: where he can find a job, where he has family

805
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 3: and friends and some other bullshit. And I said, he

806
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 3: doesn't have family and friends here in California and he

807
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 3: has just as good a chance as getting a job

808
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 3: in Idaho or Ohio. Nay, what are you talking about?

809
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 3: And they're like, well, his mom doesn't want to take

810
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 3: him back in. I'm like, that's not my problem. And

811
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 3: his mom's not taking him in here.

812
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 2: I'm not taking him in who's taking him in here?

813
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: And I can't believe they couldn't. There was nothing that

814
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:02,839
Speaker 1: they to drop.

815
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 2: I mean, can It took four months to get him

816
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 2: sent back so fucked up? Yeah, so funny because mom

817
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 2: and his sister don't want him. I'm like, oh, there's

818
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 2: a wow.

819
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:13,720
Speaker 1: Really, right, So that's my problem?

820
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 2: Right?

821
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: And I can't even I can't. I can't believe it's

822
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: it is. Listen, I don't know. I think you're probably

823
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: not alone in having this. Obviously, there are people that

824
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,800
Speaker 1: have been stalked, and you're not alone in having been stocked,

825
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,439
Speaker 1: but also the frustration of a somebody like this who

826
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 1: has ruined your life but hasn't physically touched you.

827
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 2: Right.

828
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 3: Although the statistics shows that in the United States, of

829
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 3: all of the women who have been stocked, eighty percent

830
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 3: of eighty percent of the female murders in the United

831
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 3: States eighty percent of them or more.

832
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 2: It was like eighty plus percent were stoked first.

833
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 1: That is so scared.

834
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 2: All the murders in the United States, more than eighty

835
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 2: percent were stocked first.

836
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: Say it again, Hold on, hold on, I'm sorry. So

837
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: of all the women you're saying, all the murdered in

838
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: the United States, women murdered in the icies, eighty percent

839
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 1: of those of women murdered were stocked first.

840
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, and that's yearly.

841
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,839
Speaker 3: So it's usually like eighty plus percent of the women

842
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 3: who are killed in the United States annually are were

843
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,720
Speaker 3: stocked first. So we know for a fact that stocking

844
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 3: escalates to either bodily.

845
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 2: Harm, rape, or murder. We know it for a fact.

846
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 3: So it's not just so that's why it's not just

847
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 3: oh she has stocked, but she wasn't hurt, he didn't

848
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 3: touch her, he didn't get to her.

849
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:49,800
Speaker 2: But if they can, they will. It escalates. It gets

850
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 2: worse because it's not enough anymore.

851
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,359
Speaker 1: How stuff do you have to be to write those

852
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 1: kinds of letters and to do it for years over

853
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: and over, and to find the school. I mean, that

854
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: was so chilling. Yeah, the fact that they on the

855
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: loud speaker calling her name. It just the whole thing

856
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: was just awful, absolutely awful.

857
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 3: It was crazy and it was and you know, it's like,

858
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 3: also unnerving to me is that he got the three

859
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,359
Speaker 3: and a half years right, which was which was a

860
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 3: combined sentence for so basically, you know, a little more

861
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 3: than a year and a half for having done that

862
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 3: to Kia and a little more than a year and

863
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 3: a half for having done it to me, instead of

864
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 3: three years for her, three years for me with a

865
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 3: maximum of six or a maximum of seven.

866
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 2: Right, that didn't happen.

867
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 3: But also, is there no punishment for calling a school

868
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 3: nineteen times and threatening the lives of administrators, teachers and

869
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 3: children that get in the way between him getting to Kaya?

870
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 3: Is there just I guess that that's fine?

871
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: Did your lawyer address it?

872
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 2: No, that was not even ever. I mean they knew it.

873
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 3: It was part of the case. It was part of

874
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 3: you know, all of that was thrown in. But why

875
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 3: is that not its own separate You threaten the lives.

876
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,720
Speaker 1: Because it is you call it school, you go to jail.

877
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, you threatened the school. How many years do you

878
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 3: kids just for that? Probably more just for that.

879
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 1: Didn't these school administrators would they have had a press charges.

880
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:30,800
Speaker 3: I guess, but I mean I guess they would have

881
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 3: had to have their own case, but they didn't. You know,

882
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 3: they just got thrown in with our case instead of

883
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 3: being its own case. But it seems to me that's

884
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 3: that's breaking a few rules.

885
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: I don't think so I would think so threatening an

886
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,720
Speaker 1: entire schools, right, yeah, yeah, crazy?

887
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't.

888
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: I'm too bad. If you don't want me to say

889
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 1: you're brave and whatever, I'm sorry, no, and I And

890
00:43:58,239 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: the thing is that it doesn't matter you could like

891
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: it or not.

892
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 2: I'm amazed you're not. I'm telling you no, And believe me,

893
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.

894
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry for what you've been through.

895
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,240
Speaker 3: And I don't mean that I'm not grateful for people

896
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 3: saying that because I know that you know the fact,

897
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,439
Speaker 3: it feels great, but in the moment, it doesn't feel

898
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 3: like that at all. You don't feel brave.

899
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:18,760
Speaker 2: You have no choice. I'm scared.

900
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:19,800
Speaker 1: Do you have no choice?

901
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 2: You feel anything but brave? Yeah?

902
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I look at you, and I see what

903
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 1: I'm I think probably most people see, which is this

904
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 1: stunning famous actress with the smile and the charisma and

905
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 1: you never know. I mean, I'm just glad. I'm so

906
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: grateful and happy that you put this out there for

907
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: the world to see, because you don't about what's going on, right.

908
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, And we almost didn't do it because we were

909
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 3: afraid that it might reincite him.

910
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 2: We almost didn't do it, and I'm so glad that

911
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 2: we did. I'm really I'm happy that we did.

912
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 1: Now i'm too. And you're gonna get so much support also,

913
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 1: which I would think, you know, is going to feed

914
00:44:58,200 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: your soul a little bit. Right, people are going to.

915
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's shocking to find out how many people

916
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 3: have been stocked because yeah, and it's really unbelievable number.

917
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 2: And it's men and women, and it's.

918
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's more than three million people a year just

919
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 3: in the United States are being stocked. They're being stocked

920
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 3: either on social media, in person, you know, DV, domestic violence.

921
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 3: It's it's all the possible way since men and and

922
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 3: and some of the talk shows that I've done, even

923
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:33,839
Speaker 3: the men have said to me, oh, yeah, I had

924
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 3: this crazy stalker who was coming to the studio every

925
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 3: day and you know, saying we were married.

926
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 2: I like all kinds of it comes in. They come

927
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:43,720
Speaker 2: in all crazy shapes and forms.

928
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

929
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 3: And when I was at CSID there was two other stockers.

930
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 3: Emily Proctor was being stocked. Chrysto was being stocked. It's

931
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:52,359
Speaker 3: like Stocker Central over there.

932
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, unreal. Theres are telling me that I have to

933
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: wrap it. But I just I'm just I don't know.

934
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 1: I just adore you. I think you are the most

935
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: amazing woman.

936
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 2: All of them. We're having a good time here. We're

937
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 2: having a good guys.

938
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: Leave us alone. Yeah, I know the hell out of here.

939
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 1: But I love her. I don't know her, but tell

940
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: her I love her. Yeah, she's amazing.

941
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:15,919
Speaker 2: She's a really cool kid.

942
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:21,879
Speaker 3: I'm so grateful that it didn't scar her personality or

943
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,760
Speaker 3: her soul or her incredible spirit.

944
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 2: I'm really grateful for that.

945
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 1: And that's so obvious. I mean, because she's funny and

946
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: fun she's a badass.

947
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 2: She is. Please be well, Okay you to thank you

948
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 2: again so much for how thank you, thank you