Speaker 1: The following podcast is a dear media production.
Speaker 2: Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
Speaker 2: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe and each week my guests
Speaker 2: and I have conversations that put a new spin on pretty.
Speaker 3: This is pretty smart. Vulnerability What a loaded word nowadays?
Speaker 3: What is it? Really?
Speaker 2: Simply uncertainty, risk, and emotional exposure to show up and
Speaker 2: be seen even when there are no guarantees. It's a
Speaker 2: first date after a breakup or divorce. It's starting a business,
Speaker 2: taking responsibility of something we did wrong at work. It's
Speaker 2: being next to a loved one that's sick. It's our
Speaker 2: greatest measure of courage. And that's not a philosophy I
Speaker 2: made up. Researcher Brene Brown collected thirteen thousand pieces of
Speaker 2: data over twelve years and could not find a single
Speaker 2: incident or story of courage that wasn't completely underpinned by vulnerability.
Speaker 2: And that brings me to our guest today, Caroamo Brown Karamo.
Speaker 2: He's known as a TV host, one of Queer Eyes
Speaker 2: Fab five, an author and activist. To me, he's the
Speaker 2: most comfortably vulnerable person I've ever known. I met Karamo
Speaker 2: years ago and thought he had always been an old soul,
Speaker 2: but then I read his book and I was shocked.
Speaker 2: He's been through really heartbreaking moments, harrowing struggles with drugs,
Speaker 2: domestic violence, lack of self love, and he constantly talks
Speaker 2: about them all now openly with grace and even positivity.
Speaker 2: That kind of rawness seems both terrifying and liberating. So
Speaker 2: I'm dying to know how did he get to this
Speaker 2: place where he can so easily be pretty vulnerable. So, Karamo,
Speaker 2: there's this quote of yours that I love so much.
Speaker 2: You say, when people hear my story, my hope is
Speaker 2: always that they start to believe that the life they
Speaker 2: want is possible for them, because I'm living the life
Speaker 2: I've always dreamed. In our country, being from immigrant parents,
Speaker 2: growing up black in the South, coming out at sixteen
Speaker 2: years old, being a teen parent, you would assume that
Speaker 2: my life would amount to nothing, And here I stand today.
Speaker 2: So if I can do it, you can too. Gives
Speaker 2: me chills every time I read it, and I've read
Speaker 2: it I wrote it.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, but it's real, though. You know, we
Speaker 1: can get these narratives in our head that the circumstances
Speaker 1: that have happened to us, are going to block us
Speaker 1: and stop us from having the life we deserve. And
Speaker 1: I literally realized maybe about twenty three that I had
Speaker 1: to throw all those narratives out, throw all of those
Speaker 1: statistics that you see on the news when they talk
Speaker 1: about teen parents, about immigrants, about gay people. I had
Speaker 1: to throw all of that out and say, what.
Speaker 4: Do I believe?
Speaker 1: What do I believe I'm going to get? What do
Speaker 1: I believe that I deserve? And then that's where you
Speaker 1: start to take small steps every day you start to
Speaker 1: ask for help, you just keep going. And that's why
Speaker 1: I constantly tell people, if I can make it through
Speaker 1: all those things you just said, trust me, you have
Speaker 1: the ability to get to where you deserve.
Speaker 2: So I've never known someone so comfortable with vulnerability. I'm
Speaker 2: kind of obsessed with how you've gone about healing and
Speaker 2: finding so much love for yourself. But I feel like
Speaker 2: I can't fully understand the growth without going back a
Speaker 2: little bit. Can we go all the way back to Florida?
Speaker 2: You grew up with Jamaican and Cuban parents. What was
Speaker 2: little Karamo like?
Speaker 1: He was? He was a bit shy, to be honest.
Speaker 1: He felt like he had to be an overachiever, and
Speaker 1: so that overachiever sort of countered the shyness because I
Speaker 1: was always like, okay, well I have to put myself
Speaker 1: out in this way because you know, having parents who
Speaker 1: are from another country who struggled to get here. It
Speaker 1: was like no, no, no, we got here, so you.
Speaker 4: Have to get a's, you have to be involved.
Speaker 1: It's all, you know, all that stuff. But it was
Speaker 1: like forcing against me being shy, and so I wish
Speaker 1: I was like the fun kid, but I was probably
Speaker 1: like the scared kid if I think back on it, truly,
Speaker 1: that was more of an introvert. Now I think back
Speaker 1: about it, I'm glad. You know, I love myself as
Speaker 1: a younger me. But I'm like, I wasn't that person
Speaker 1: who went out to a lot of parties or did it,
Speaker 1: like got invited to stuff. I had one best friend
Speaker 1: and that's who I spent the night over. You know,
Speaker 1: I wasn't like the uber cool kid.
Speaker 2: It's funny you say that, because anytime I've ever been
Speaker 2: with you, you are the life of the party.
Speaker 3: I cannot even imagine that. When did that shift for you?
Speaker 1: I think it shifted around high school, to be very
Speaker 1: honest with you because my parents got divorced when I
Speaker 1: was fifteen, and I moved to Florida from Texas to
Speaker 1: live with my father. And this school I went to
Speaker 1: is Marjorie Stowe in Douglas, which we all know from
Speaker 1: February fourteen, twenty seventeen, the school that was shot in Parkland, Florida.
Speaker 1: That was my school, and once I got there, it's
Speaker 1: predominantly white school. I walked in and I was six
Speaker 1: two and a half six street my same height, same
Speaker 1: bodybuild I have. Now I had a gold tee and
Speaker 1: so I walked into school and everybody was like, Oh
Speaker 1: my god, who's this, Like, you know, college guy walking ahead,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I felt like. I felt attractive. I felt cool because
Speaker 1: I had had a growth spurt bigger than everyone. I
Speaker 1: looked like a man, and so all the guys wanted
Speaker 1: to be friends, and all the girls thought I was cute,
Speaker 1: and I just, you know, I felt like and I
Speaker 1: think back when it shifted, I realized there was a
Speaker 1: power in me owning my self esteem growing. And I
Speaker 1: say that in that way because some people own it
Speaker 1: and it turns into an ego I owned it as Okay,
Speaker 1: this is something that I have that doesn't define me,
Speaker 1: but it's allowing me to break out of my shell
Speaker 1: and connect with other people. So I think it's shifted
Speaker 1: about them.
Speaker 2: I love that you talk about that, because my next
Speaker 2: question for you was how did your good looks play
Speaker 2: into your desire to be in the spotlight, because I
Speaker 2: feel like you've always sort of gone after this big life.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. I know you thought I was fine.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that.
Speaker 3: Have I never told you that.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: You gorgeous too, making me read you're the side.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, one of the things that I
Speaker 1: do think is unfair about our industry is that we
Speaker 1: I think it's unfair about the world. We give certain
Speaker 1: benefits to people who other people construe us attractive. And
Speaker 1: it's sad because I felt it on both sides to
Speaker 1: some degree. Where when I got into Hollywood, and I'm
Speaker 1: going to fast forward just a little bit, I remember
Speaker 1: them telling me immediately like, my nose is too big.
Speaker 1: I remember I went to a mallling agency and they
Speaker 1: were like, your nose is too big. You need to
Speaker 1: lighten up your skin. I had, Oh my gosh, Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, I know you've heard this stuff too, Like
Speaker 1: we've been friends for a long time, and you know,
Speaker 1: I'm sure people have said like little slight shit to
Speaker 1: you about like your body or anything, and you you're
Speaker 1: a beautiful woman, but everyone has an opinion of what
Speaker 1: you should look like. And so because of that, I
Speaker 1: never had the opportunity to really fall into that space
Speaker 1: where I thought that I was the most attractive or
Speaker 1: beautiful person on any cast I've ever been on. I
Speaker 1: have never been considered the attractive one. And that's just
Speaker 1: the real of it, the real world never I'm talking about,
Speaker 1: And it's not me saying this is about like the
Speaker 1: press and what people and the fans say, Like even
Speaker 1: on Queer Eye.
Speaker 4: You know, I don't I don't care what I have on.
Speaker 1: I'm not the attractive one. On the past, people will
Speaker 1: say to me, you're the sweet one I want to
Speaker 1: get to know, You're the one I want to talk to.
Speaker 1: And I don't mind it because I'm not. I'm not
Speaker 1: someone who needs that type of validation. But I realize, yes.
Speaker 3: I am shot you're the hot one on Oh thank you.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. I think I think I appreciate that,
Speaker 1: and I'll receive it. But I think that our hot
Speaker 1: one is hot, you know, And I think that when
Speaker 1: you and I think about it, we all have such
Speaker 1: beauty and I just wish that we could all, you know,
Speaker 1: see the beauty. But like you know, we have these
Speaker 1: lists People's most beautiful man, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It took years for someone you know, of color to
Speaker 1: get on it. It took years for I don't think we
Speaker 1: still had an Asian People's most Beautiful person yet, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. These type of things are crazy
Speaker 1: to me because those standards can make you think that
Speaker 1: you're not attractive. And so I do try to understand
Speaker 1: the privilege that I have with being tall, with looking
Speaker 1: a certain way, but I don't let it get to
Speaker 1: me because I know it's so subjective and that tomorrow
Speaker 1: someone's going to look at me and be like, h
Speaker 1: he's not that, because I've had.
Speaker 4: That before, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you really do play so much importance in
Speaker 3: your soul. It like emanates when you walk.
Speaker 2: You don't lead with those beautiful eyes or those muscles,
Speaker 2: you lead with your soul.
Speaker 3: It's special.
Speaker 4: Oh, thank you, love. I appreciate that. I try. I try.
Speaker 1: I ain't perfect girl, No one is.
Speaker 3: Did you have a desire for fame in high school?
Speaker 1: I did, If I can be honest with you, I
Speaker 1: had a desire of fame because when you grow up
Speaker 1: that lonely kid, when you grow up in a broken household,
Speaker 1: you think that fame is going to heal you. You
Speaker 1: think that fame is going to make the world see
Speaker 1: you and give you some sort of validation. And after
Speaker 1: being on MTV's Real World in two thousand and four,
Speaker 1: I quickly realized that fame doesn't heal those parts of you.
Speaker 1: That it's your job to heal the parts of you
Speaker 1: that you think are unworthy. It's your job to look
Speaker 1: at yourself in the mirror and know that the experiences
Speaker 1: that you went through are only going to make you
Speaker 1: stronger or lessons you needed, because fame.
Speaker 4: Won't do that for you, you know.
Speaker 1: Like I tell people now, I'm so blessed and thankful
Speaker 1: the career that I have. I work hard for it.
Speaker 1: But I'm not interested in fame. I'm interested in money.
Speaker 1: I don't say that like I'm interested in money and
Speaker 1: like how like some people are like money rules everything,
Speaker 1: not like that. I'm more so in it, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is a job. I want to get paid, and
Speaker 1: I want to be able to create generational wealth for
Speaker 1: my family, for my kids. I want to take us
Speaker 1: out of the cycle we've been in. You know, But
Speaker 1: I don't look for fame, because the minute you start
Speaker 1: putting yourself esteem on fame, baby, oh you know this, like,
Speaker 1: people will go on social media and tear you down.
Speaker 1: You know, people will tear you down immediately. And fame
Speaker 1: has a beautiful side and ugly side, and I don't
Speaker 1: want either of those sides. I just want to continue
Speaker 1: to work and keep doing what I can do that
Speaker 1: makes me happy and makes other people happy.
Speaker 3: To get to that point requires so much growth.
Speaker 2: Have you kind of figured out the piece of you
Speaker 2: that was hurting in high school?
Speaker 3: Have you been able to pinpoint.
Speaker 1: That, Oh my gosh, yes for me. And this is
Speaker 1: an exercise that I tell people to do all the time,
Speaker 1: is to really go back and use your notes, to
Speaker 1: use a journal and think about the moments in your
Speaker 1: childhood that made you sad, made you feel confused, that
Speaker 1: made you feel unsure about your place in the world.
Speaker 1: And we can all have we all have the power
Speaker 1: to reflect and when you reflect, you get so much clarity,
Speaker 1: and for me, I realized there was something very critical,
Speaker 1: which was I'm my father's only son, I have four sisters,
Speaker 1: I'm the baby. And my father used to tell me
Speaker 1: every single day, I was a champion. I was his world.
Speaker 1: He loved me. I was the most extraordinary person he
Speaker 1: had ever met. These are the things that my father
Speaker 1: would tell me every day. And then when I said,
Speaker 1: when I let him into my life and told him
Speaker 1: that I identify as gay, he stopped talking to me.
Speaker 1: And I realized, after work of reflection, you know, speaking
Speaker 1: to people being vulnerable, that that moment was so critical
Speaker 1: of my life that it caused me to not trust love.
Speaker 1: It caused me not to trust what people say about me.
Speaker 1: And so that desire to be famous that I had
Speaker 1: early on came from a need to fill that void
Speaker 1: of like, Okay, if I can become famous, then people
Speaker 1: will love me, and I can trust their love. And
Speaker 1: I realized immediately that what I was seeking was the
Speaker 1: same vapid validation that I've gotten from my father. I
Speaker 1: was seeking, you know, something that was flighty, that could
Speaker 1: just go away. And I had to realize that in
Speaker 1: that moment, that what I needed when I was that
Speaker 1: small kid and he stopped talking to me, What I
Speaker 1: needed in that moment was to look at myself and
Speaker 1: tell myself I still love me, and I didn't have
Speaker 1: the language to do that. I had. You know, we're
Speaker 1: in a space now where we talk about mental health
Speaker 1: and you know, self esteem and new way, But when
Speaker 1: I was in high school, we weren't talking like that.
Speaker 1: And so instead of turning into myself and saying I
Speaker 1: love me, I love me and practicing that every day,
Speaker 1: I practiced the opposite of saying you're not worthy of love,
Speaker 1: You're not going to get it, you can't trust people's love.
Speaker 1: And it affected every relationship I had. It affected how
Speaker 1: I moved through this world. And once I started to
Speaker 1: let that go and realize that him not loving me
Speaker 1: anymore didn't mean that I couldn't love myself more than
Speaker 1: things started to change. And so that was the critical
Speaker 1: moment for me.
Speaker 3: I wish I could hug little you. It was like, really.
Speaker 1: Sad, I wanted me to go back and hug little loss.
Speaker 2: I guess you're right, I wish I could hug little
Speaker 2: me too. Yeah, that's a good point. When I read
Speaker 2: your book. I was so shocked by some of the
Speaker 2: things that I didn't know about you. After knowing you
Speaker 2: for all these years, I didn't know that you were
Speaker 2: in an abusive relationship.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was, and I was the abuser.
Speaker 1: And I talk about it openly, in candidly because when
Speaker 1: people see me and they you know, they see me
Speaker 1: on television, people who know me, they think like, I'm
Speaker 1: you know, like all you know, like spiritual and always
Speaker 1: like whatever. And there was a time in my life
Speaker 1: that I wasn't. I was filled with so much anger
Speaker 1: in my in my household, my father beat my mother.
Speaker 1: You know, that was the reason they got divorced, because
Speaker 1: he was a cheat and he would hit her. And
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things my father used to
Speaker 1: say to me was don't ever hit a woman. But
Speaker 1: he was speaking to a young man, which first of
Speaker 1: all was contradictory because I'm watching his behavior. But he
Speaker 1: was also speaking to a young man who was dating men.
Speaker 1: So he's giving me this advice of like, don't hit women,
Speaker 1: But what about when there's two men in a relationship.
Speaker 1: How do I process that? And in my mind, not
Speaker 1: knowing any better, I processed it the same way most
Speaker 1: young men who subscribed to toxic Behaviors processed it. It
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, I can't hit a woman, but two
Speaker 1: men we can fight. And so anytime I had anger
Speaker 1: in a relationship where we weren't coming to some resolution,
Speaker 1: I got physical very quickly, because that's what we were
Speaker 1: taught on the playground, That's what I was taught on
Speaker 1: the football field. That's what I was always taught, which
Speaker 1: was to fight back. That makes me more of a
Speaker 1: man if you can stand up. And I got really abusive,
Speaker 1: and I remember the stopping point for me of wanting
Speaker 1: not wanting to be abusive anymore was I had just
Speaker 1: finished into a fight with my boyfriend. At that time,
Speaker 1: he was bleeding and I made him clean up the
Speaker 1: blood off the ground. And I say this not because
Speaker 1: I'm proud of this moment. It's because there was a
Speaker 1: Poe moment that I need to reflect on and hopefully
Speaker 1: the other people can learn from. Is he called the police,
Speaker 1: and I arrogantly waited at the door for the police
Speaker 1: because I knew the police hadn't been trained on how
Speaker 1: to deal with same sex couples, which is still true today.
Speaker 1: Most first responders don't know how to intervene in same
Speaker 1: sex couples. So if he was a woman, they would
Speaker 1: have taken me to jail. But because I was a man,
Speaker 1: these two police officers, both men, laughed it off and said,
Speaker 1: you two figure it out. And I remember I went
Speaker 1: back in the house and I looked at him and
Speaker 1: I saw my mom. I literally saw my mother's face,
Speaker 1: and not her face physically obviously, but like the way
Speaker 1: that she looked at my dad after he did this,
Speaker 1: like sort of like with sorrow and with sort of
Speaker 1: like pain and like and I just saw it and
Speaker 1: I ran to the room and I was like, you're him.
Speaker 1: You're becoming him. You're not knowing how to manage your feelings,
Speaker 1: You're becoming this man. And it was very hard for me.
Speaker 1: I got really depressed after that, and then I had
Speaker 1: to say to myself, I need to leave, because you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes when people in abusive relationships, we always put this
Speaker 1: onus on the person who's being abused of asking them
Speaker 1: why didn't you leave?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 1: And I had to. I realized that I had put
Speaker 1: sort of manipulated my boyfriend into feeling like this was
Speaker 1: okay behavior, that I had done so much damage to
Speaker 1: his self esteem that of course he wasn't going to leave.
Speaker 1: You know, I had made him feel inferior in so
Speaker 1: many ways, and I realized that I had to leave.
Speaker 1: I had to stop this behavior. I realized it was
Speaker 1: up to me to release him, to release myself of
Speaker 1: this behavior, to do the work. And that's that's when
Speaker 1: life got better. And luckily that stopped at twenty six
Speaker 1: for me, right before I became a father, because I
Speaker 1: couldn't imagine if I still had those anger issues when
Speaker 1: I became a dad, because I would have probably hit
Speaker 1: my children, and so it was a dark time. But
Speaker 1: also I talk about it now because I don't think
Speaker 1: we talk about domestic violence enough. We don't talk about
Speaker 1: enough with same sex couples. I think it needs to
Speaker 1: be discussed for I agree.
Speaker 2: And I hope you feel okay that I brought it up.
Speaker 2: I only brought it up honestly because.
Speaker 4: Oh oh no, I feel okay. I love that you
Speaker 4: brought it up.
Speaker 2: Bring it up with you you are, But I brought
Speaker 2: it up because of exactly what you said. I'm sort
Speaker 2: of in awe, especially after reading your book, as to
Speaker 2: how that person became this person. Yeah, it takes so
Speaker 2: much internal strength and self awareness and work. And I
Speaker 2: think anybody who's in real pain oftentimes feels like there
Speaker 2: is no out, there is no getting to the other
Speaker 2: side to it. So to hear you talk about it
Speaker 2: so candidly, I think is really inspiring.
Speaker 4: Thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's what you said before and what
Speaker 1: I love about you as well, because every time we
Speaker 1: have our little catchups, we're both vulnerable each other. And
Speaker 1: for me, what got me here was the first thing
Speaker 1: I had to realize is that I was in pain.
Speaker 1: I was in pain. I was hurting, and everything I
Speaker 1: did and every way I reacted was because I was hurting.
Speaker 1: Then I took an inventory of the people I love
Speaker 1: in my life and asked them to tell me candidly
Speaker 1: how they see me. And that's something that we don't
Speaker 1: do often because we don't want to hear people's opinions
Speaker 1: of us, you know, we especially if we think it's.
Speaker 4: Going to be bad.
Speaker 1: And so I literally went around to people and said, so,
Speaker 1: what do you see me as And people would be like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're you know, you're sweet, we love hanging around you,
Speaker 1: but you're you're a bit of an asshole. You're a
Speaker 1: bit of this. Really they want honest because I believe
Speaker 1: we all have our tribe that you can really take
Speaker 1: inventory from. That's going to be real with you, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Who will tell you what they see?
Speaker 1: You know. I wasn't asking people who I knew were
Speaker 1: fly by friends, you know. I was asking like my
Speaker 1: best friends of you know, fifteen years, sixteen years, eighteen years.
Speaker 1: I was asking my sister, I was asking. I asked,
Speaker 1: and I asked two of my ex boyfriends during that time.
Speaker 1: I was like, what was I like as a boyfriend,
Speaker 1: and you know, they just let me know. And I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my gosh, I'm writing down what they said,
Speaker 1: and I'm seeing consistence on the negative side and not
Speaker 1: enough on the positive side. And I realized that the
Speaker 1: negative was happening because I was in pain and I
Speaker 1: was trying to make people feel what I was feeling
Speaker 1: because I didn't how a process. And that took day
Speaker 1: after day of journey, you know. And I tell people
Speaker 1: all the time, the same way you can knock your
Speaker 1: self esteem down, because if you practice saying bad things
Speaker 1: to yourself every day, it's the same way you can
Speaker 1: change your life and just build your self esteem back up.
Speaker 1: You know, I had to say, Okay, I don't want
Speaker 1: to be this way. I reflect in the moment. It
Speaker 1: took a lot of daily work, but I was patient
Speaker 1: with myself and that was the key thing.
Speaker 2: So in that journey of self forgiveness, what was going
Speaker 2: on is like, what did you have to actually forgive?
Speaker 2: Because this manifested not just abusive relationships, but you dealt
Speaker 2: with a cocaine addiction. I it was really sad to
Speaker 2: read in two thousand and six you tried to take
Speaker 2: your own life. I mean like this got pretty dark. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what did you have to forgive?
Speaker 1: I first had to forgive myself for the things that
Speaker 1: I did wrong because I knew I did a lot
Speaker 1: of wrong and I had to forgive myself and that's
Speaker 1: hard for people to do. It's easier said than done. Yeah,
Speaker 1: as you end up still, you know, I call them
Speaker 1: cringe moments now where I'm in the in bed at
Speaker 1: nighttime in a memory will pop up my head and
Speaker 1: I'll cringe and be.
Speaker 4: Likeugh, did I really do that? Oh?
Speaker 1: You know, like and that still happens when those moments happened,
Speaker 1: where I cringe on something that I did in my past.
Speaker 1: I have to forgive myself and say, you know what
Speaker 1: you did it, you did you did it with the
Speaker 1: best knowledge that you had at that time. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I love that. You know. It's like one of those
Speaker 1: things where it's just like I had to forgive myself
Speaker 1: in a moment. And then once I forgave myself, I
Speaker 1: had to then go and seek out help. And that
Speaker 1: at first was just reading online, you know, because I
Speaker 1: couldn't afford a therapist, right, you know, therapists are expensive
Speaker 1: as hell.
Speaker 4: And people forget that. You know, we throw around very.
Speaker 1: Easily like go see a therapist, but therapists costs money.
Speaker 1: And if you're basically struggling to get by or I've
Speaker 1: never had access to a therapist, you don't know how
Speaker 1: to get a therapist. And you know, I had to
Speaker 1: realize that, Okay, there was you know, counseling services, group
Speaker 1: services that were free or cheap that I could go to,
Speaker 1: and so I did that and the REA and that
Speaker 1: was the second step. Is because mostly time people on
Speaker 1: their journey of back and forgiveness and growth, they forget
Speaker 1: to forgive themselves or they go right to the people
Speaker 1: they hurt and try to get forgiveness there, and I
Speaker 1: realized early on that's wrong because if I come to
Speaker 1: you and say I wanted you to forgive me please
Speaker 1: for the bad I did, but I don't have the
Speaker 1: tools to show you what I've learned, and I don't
Speaker 1: have the tools to show you what I'm going to
Speaker 1: do to make up for this moment, then it's sort
Speaker 1: of it's very it's vapid. It's like okay, you know,
Speaker 1: like there's there's no depth in it. So I went
Speaker 1: and did the work first, and then once I had
Speaker 1: the skills and the tools, I then went to all
Speaker 1: these people and said, hey, I'm sorry. And I said
Speaker 1: I'm sorry without needing to rebuttal anything they said, which
Speaker 1: is also hard because a lot of times when you
Speaker 1: say sorry, people will say something and it's not what
Speaker 1: you experience, so you'll try to be like, well, that's
Speaker 1: not really how it was, instead of just saying I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: no buds. That journey as a start to heal me
Speaker 1: very quickly, forgiving myself, doing the work, and then asking
Speaker 1: others for forgiveness. And it wasn't until I got to
Speaker 1: that place of wanting to take my own life, and
Speaker 1: luckily I didn't succeed at it, because you know, when
Speaker 1: you're in those dark moments, you think there's nothing will
Speaker 1: get better. But I was so happy that I didn't succeed,
Speaker 1: so that way things could get better, that I could forgive.
Speaker 1: And I just hope if there's anyone listening right now
Speaker 1: who might be having any feelings about suicide or feeling
Speaker 1: like they can't forgive themselves, to know that there's resources.
Speaker 1: You know, I can drop you a couple of numbers
Speaker 1: that you can put in the link in the bio
Speaker 1: and just you know, people just know they're not alone
Speaker 1: and they'll get through it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And look how much light you've spread since then.
Speaker 1: I try, girl, I do travel, you do.
Speaker 2: So when we spoke about doing this interview, originally I
Speaker 2: was thinking pretty purposeful, pretty forgiveness, because I name them
Speaker 2: pretty something each episode, and after reading your book, I
Speaker 2: really would I wanted to name it pretty vulnerable because
Speaker 2: I saw this interview you did. I think it was
Speaker 2: an NPR host on stage. It was live, and you
Speaker 2: were so honest, and you said it with grace and positivity,
Speaker 2: and you were so honest that it made it like
Speaker 2: I had to confront myself, like it made me a
Speaker 2: little uncomfortable.
Speaker 4: Wow, I want to know what I've said.
Speaker 2: Then it was honestly, a lot of it was in
Speaker 2: your book, but you were able to just communicate and
Speaker 2: articulate your true feelings in a way that I think
Speaker 2: sometimes I only say, like in bed at night to myself,
Speaker 2: you know. And then I started reading more about vulnerability,
Speaker 2: and I realized that it feels like courage.
Speaker 3: In you but weakness in me. It's the first thing
Speaker 3: we want from other people and the last thing we're
Speaker 3: willing to give. And so when I hear you.
Speaker 4: Beautiful out of me, that's like, wow, that is gorgeous.
Speaker 3: We'll put the.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But it was like I had to overcome this initial
Speaker 2: panic to get to your magic.
Speaker 3: Have you ever had that feeling?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, yes, consistently, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I still had that feeling of sometimes when I'm about
Speaker 1: to go out, because this is the part about vulnerability
Speaker 1: is that it's frightening because our truth scares other people,
Speaker 1: and people judge our truth, and you want people just
Speaker 1: to be like no, no, no, listen, I get it.
Speaker 1: I see how vulnerable you are, but like to be
Speaker 1: rejected when you've been vulnerable is the worst feeling ever.
Speaker 1: It's like I let my guard down, I let you in,
Speaker 1: and you still rejected me, and then it's like I
Speaker 1: don't want to be vulnerable again. So yes, I've experienced that,
Speaker 1: you know, I've experienced that so many times. But what
Speaker 1: I try to help people understand when it comes to vulnerability,
Speaker 1: this is a saying that I heard a long time ago,
Speaker 1: and I just love it. Is that broken crayon still
Speaker 1: color And it's my way of saying. And what I've
Speaker 1: taken away from that saying is, you know, no matter
Speaker 1: how much I've been broken, how many things I've done
Speaker 1: that are bad, I still have the ability to color
Speaker 1: this world with bright, beautiful light. Vulnerability, you know, understanding
Speaker 1: because my brokenness or the things that broke me or
Speaker 1: I thought that were going to break me didn't stop me.
Speaker 1: It didn't stop me. And so it propels me to
Speaker 1: know that I still have the power and ability, until
Speaker 1: there's no breath in my body to continue to color
Speaker 1: this world in the way that I see fit that's
Speaker 1: going to make it more beautiful. But I do have
Speaker 1: those moments.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it allows you to connect with
Speaker 2: people on a whole different level.
Speaker 3: Than amen.
Speaker 2: As I was reading more about vulnerability, Brene Brown obviously
Speaker 2: came up and she says that it's rooted in courage.
Speaker 1: M hm.
Speaker 2: So what is the most courageous know or the hardest
Speaker 2: boundary that you've had to put up?
Speaker 1: Ooh, first of all, shout out to Brene Brown. Love
Speaker 1: her to death. It's so funny. I still have never
Speaker 1: met Brene Brown and never worked with her, and I'm
Speaker 1: I keep trying to put that in the universe. I'm like,
Speaker 1: how is it that we are sitting in the same
Speaker 1: space and I've never met this lady who I admire
Speaker 1: so much?
Speaker 3: Oh my god? And how much would you love each
Speaker 3: I mean, she would love you.
Speaker 4: I love her to that.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to put that out for you.
Speaker 1: Maest, please please, please, let's manifest that together. I say,
Speaker 1: all three of us do like a brunch and lunch
Speaker 1: or brunch and talk or something.
Speaker 4: Fun.
Speaker 1: But the thing that I had to be most courageous
Speaker 1: throughout instead of boundary, when we have the five of
Speaker 1: us have group events. I can tell you they like Netflix.
Speaker 1: They does these events all the time, especially during amy seasons,
Speaker 1: or we do things and they'll line us up in
Speaker 1: our own little boots. And you know, Johnthan's line will
Speaker 1: always have people coming out with me and like, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, touch my hair. You know, let's twirl, let's
Speaker 1: have fun. You know, Tanse line always has people saying
Speaker 1: like took out my fashion? Do you think my boyfriend
Speaker 1: looks good? And I will literally had the longest line
Speaker 1: no joke of people coming up to me and say,
Speaker 1: my grandfather just died. I don't know how to process it.
Speaker 1: I'm in abuseul relationship. I don't know what to do,
Speaker 1: like a long line of people crying and taking their
Speaker 1: stuff out. And for me, I learned how to understand
Speaker 1: my capacity of being able to give, and I'm not
Speaker 1: afraid of telling people that I'm not able to give today.
Speaker 1: So that was a boundary I learned a long time ago.
Speaker 1: Is saying that it's okay that to say I don't
Speaker 1: have the capacity it is and helping people to understand
Speaker 1: that that doesn't mean that I don't love you and
Speaker 1: I don't care for you. It means that I don't
Speaker 1: have the capacity to day. You know, I heard someone
Speaker 1: once say that, like, if you think of your brain
Speaker 1: as computer tabs that are open, you know, Internet tabs,
Speaker 1: that are open. You know, once you have forty tabs open,
Speaker 1: your Internet starts going slower. You don't have the ability
Speaker 1: that sometimes you just got to be like, nope, got
Speaker 1: too many tabs open. I can't today. And that is
Speaker 1: something I'm very comfortable with, and I want more people
Speaker 1: to be comfortable with, because we look at no as
Speaker 1: a dirty word, and no should never be a dirty word.
Speaker 1: No could be used to protect yourself and protect others,
Speaker 1: because if I try to give advice when I'm not
Speaker 1: in a healthy place, and all I'm doing is doing
Speaker 1: at the service to somebody who actually was seeking my
Speaker 1: advice and my expertise. But I think the most courageous
Speaker 1: boundary I've had to say to be honest with you
Speaker 1: would be with my father.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And I say that because as I became a father,
Speaker 1: I had to struggle with my father meeting my son,
Speaker 1: and I always was like, I don't want my father
Speaker 1: to ever put his negativity or anything onto my children
Speaker 1: to make my children feel like they had to choose
Speaker 1: between their father and their grandfather. And I I found
Speaker 1: the courage, you know, years ago to say to him, Hey,
Speaker 1: I will allow my children to be in your life.
Speaker 1: But if you ever say anything negative about me or
Speaker 1: the LGBT community, then I'm going to not allow you
Speaker 1: to see my children. This is my one thing. You
Speaker 1: can see them as long as you never try to
Speaker 1: disparage me or my community. And that was a hard
Speaker 1: thing because you know, it was like me setting a
Speaker 1: clear boundary with somebody who I'm, to be honest, a
Speaker 1: bit intimidated by, even though like as I get older,
Speaker 1: I'm still intimidated by him because I still feel like
Speaker 1: like that small child that can't speak back, that feels
Speaker 1: like he deserves his abuse.
Speaker 3: He's still your dad that never goes over exactly.
Speaker 1: And it's so weird because as I get I'm forty now,
Speaker 1: just fur forty last November, and I'm like, why am
Speaker 1: I still feeling this way about him? And you're right,
Speaker 1: this is your father. But when I told him that,
Speaker 1: because I was so confident and was so clear and
Speaker 1: what I expected and what I wanted. He has a
Speaker 1: relationship with my sons all these years, and not once
Speaker 1: has he ever disparaged me or said anything about the
Speaker 1: LGBT community in front of my kids. And because of them,
Speaker 1: they've been able to have a relationship. So they talked
Speaker 1: to Grandpa all the time, or that he calls them
Speaker 1: G Paul if they talked to g Pau all the time.
Speaker 1: And it feels good to know that my children have
Speaker 1: a relationship with him. That's healthier because I set a
Speaker 1: boundary with him to say this is not okay and
Speaker 1: you can't do that. And I think that was one
Speaker 1: of the most courageous moments of my life, because otherwise,
Speaker 1: if I didn't find that courage, I wouldn't have been
Speaker 1: able to do that and would have probably destroyed three
Speaker 1: generations of relationships versus just two.
Speaker 3: You set the framework for that. That's amazing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2: In Kabbala, they believe that children choose their parents to
Speaker 2: teach them the lessons that they needed in this lifetime.
Speaker 2: And as I was reading your book, I kept thinking, Wow,
Speaker 2: Karama was chosen to be his father's son and it
Speaker 2: caused you so much pain.
Speaker 3: But I kind of believe that.
Speaker 4: Oh it's Kabala that believes that. I want to read
Speaker 4: up more on that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll I'll send you a book because.
Speaker 1: How come I couldn't pick Barack Obama because I would
Speaker 1: have loved hid to you, my daddy, Like I don't
Speaker 1: know Baroxie like he'd have been dope as dad to have.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, I mean, no one's perfect.
Speaker 2: It's true you could have gotten any internship, seriously, any.
Speaker 4: Like damn like. But yeah, I'm with that. I'm with that.
Speaker 1: I do believe the people that come in our lives,
Speaker 1: you know, are supposed to give us a lesson. You know,
Speaker 1: there is something special magical about children and parents that
Speaker 1: we don't fully understand, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: this young person comes to you and grows in this
Speaker 1: woman's body and then is delivered to us, and we're's
Speaker 1: meant to guide it and we're meant to learn, and
Speaker 1: so I do believe there's something of that. So that's
Speaker 1: pretty awesome. I can't wait to research that more.
Speaker 2: You mentioned Queer Eye, and I was wondering what you
Speaker 2: felt was potentially misunderstood about your life publicly because there's
Speaker 2: so much out there, right, there's so much on the
Speaker 2: Internet and Instagram. Do you feel like your inner life
Speaker 2: fully matches the outer life online or is there a
Speaker 2: piece that is misunderstood?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, hell yeah girl, you know. I mean we're friends.
Speaker 4: I like to party and get down.
Speaker 1: I'm glad to tell we see.
Speaker 3: That with your Instagram. Yeah, videos, you let us in.
Speaker 1: I try to a little bit, but you know, I
Speaker 1: really people think all the time that I'm like, like,
Speaker 1: I'm always talking about like deep soul stuff and I do.
Speaker 1: And I love conversations about vulnerability. You know. We've had
Speaker 1: moments where we've just gotten deep and just like and
Speaker 1: I think that's so beautiful, like when friends can like
Speaker 1: really just go there. But then I also love when
Speaker 1: friends can just be like, girl, we just gonna cheers
Speaker 1: and have a lot of drinks and you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. And so I think that people.
Speaker 4: Don't get enough of that side, which is all right.
Speaker 1: You know, But I hope they just know that you
Speaker 1: can be balanced, you can do both. You can have fun,
Speaker 1: you can be spiritual as long as you're not hurting
Speaker 1: yourself or hurting other people.
Speaker 3: You really do turn up.
Speaker 4: I turn up, girl. I love the turn up. You
Speaker 4: turn up is the best thing ever for me.
Speaker 2: And you know how to set the scene of a party.
Speaker 2: You get catered, you do like you have it by
Speaker 2: the pool.
Speaker 3: It's all good.
Speaker 4: I try to. I try to.
Speaker 1: I try to always make sure there's enough food, drink.
Speaker 1: That's my that's the Caribbean.
Speaker 4: Side of me, my mother and me.
Speaker 1: That's like every there always has to be enough. Food
Speaker 1: has to be enough, drinks has to be enough. Everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm ready for I just got my first vaccine shot.
Speaker 1: I have my second one coming up in two weeks,
Speaker 1: and I'm thank you and I'm just I say that
Speaker 1: particularly because, first of all, there's so much distrust with
Speaker 1: African Americans and Latinos when it comes to vaccines. Rightfully so,
Speaker 1: because we've had issues in our country where we were
Speaker 1: experimented on. But in this particular time, I've done the research,
Speaker 1: and I'm just employing anyone who's African American or Latino
Speaker 1: or young who has apprehension to know I've done the research.
Speaker 1: Do your own research.
Speaker 4: It is safe.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to, you know, turn this conversation into this,
Speaker 1: but I just want people to know to get vaccinated.
Speaker 1: I did it because I'm ready to get back out
Speaker 1: there and have a good time. And I said this
Speaker 1: all to say, the minute that everyone gets vaccinated in
Speaker 1: my circle, we are about to turn up, like you
Speaker 1: can imagine it. Okay, I'm just said you know that
Speaker 1: the day that that happens, I'm like everybody comes to
Speaker 1: the house. We are in the pool. We were gonna
Speaker 1: have a good time. Because I'm so dumb with COVID.
Speaker 1: I'm so dumb with quarantining. I say the.
Speaker 3: Same way it hit me a few weeks ago. I
Speaker 3: have done done.
Speaker 1: I am done. Like I was jealous of Texas for
Speaker 1: a second the other day, my sister's Texas, and when
Speaker 1: they said everything opened back up for like a good
Speaker 1: ten minutes, I was like, I'm so jealous. But you know,
Speaker 1: it was like that feeling of like, y'all get to
Speaker 1: go bowling again. I want to bowl, you know, like
Speaker 1: little pig.
Speaker 2: Even the stuff I didn't like to do, I want
Speaker 2: to do now because I just can't exactly.
Speaker 1: I have the same feeling. So so please everyone can
Speaker 1: take care of yourselves, and if you're able to get
Speaker 1: a vaccination, please go.
Speaker 3: So you know, I've never asked you this, but I
Speaker 3: looked up the dates.
Speaker 2: So February sixth, twenty eighteen, you wake up as Caramo,
Speaker 2: you make breakfast with your kids, you're in your house.
Speaker 2: February seventh, twenty eighteen, the day after you wake up,
Speaker 2: your Instagram shoots to a million followers and it's May.
Speaker 3: It was literal mayhem. I remember checking your Instagram and
Speaker 3: being like, holy.
Speaker 1: Shit, overnight, overnight, what the hell? Yeah, it was it
Speaker 1: was crazy.
Speaker 2: It was what and I saw it happen in real time.
Speaker 2: It was like two hundred thousand, three hundred thousand, one million.
Speaker 2: So what was it like to wake up twenty four
Speaker 2: hours later and have your life just be total mayhem?
Speaker 1: It was amazing because, as you and I know, I
Speaker 1: had been hustling a hosting career for years, just like you.
Speaker 1: We had been on every carpet, with every outlet we
Speaker 1: could do. We have been telling each other about job.
Speaker 1: We had been like talking about agents, and so it
Speaker 1: felt like, thank god, I never gave up, and here's
Speaker 1: this moment that is showing me you got to keep
Speaker 1: pushing because it can get even bigger than this. And
Speaker 1: so I loved it. It was it was amazing. I
Speaker 1: can't I wish that I you know that I could say,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I was scared or whatever. I was
Speaker 1: just like thankful because I've been in the trenches. And
Speaker 1: that's why I love speaking to you, is because we
Speaker 1: were in these trenches together, like constantly hustling, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, And we're still hustling. I'm still hustling
Speaker 1: because people think that the minute you get on it's like,
Speaker 1: oh everything comes to you. You still have to hustle,
Speaker 1: you still have to keep finding opportunities. There is some
Speaker 1: thats that come along with it, but a lot of
Speaker 1: the stuff I still have to be like, hey, can
Speaker 1: I have a general meeting with this person? And I
Speaker 1: talked to this person, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you started companies like you're a self
Speaker 2: starter that doesn't just come from same Yeah.
Speaker 1: Completely, And that's something that people need to understand, is
Speaker 1: that you know, you have to be a self starter
Speaker 1: and you have to believe in yourself and try for
Speaker 1: yourself more because no one's going to work as hard
Speaker 1: for you as you. And that's just the real of it.
Speaker 1: And I thought for a second when I became when
Speaker 1: queer Ie blew up, that everything was going to start
Speaker 1: coming through me. I really did. I thought like, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, all these things are going to start happening.
Speaker 1: And I realized they weren't. And I had to continue
Speaker 1: to like reintroduce myself to people, and I had to
Speaker 1: let go of my ego of saying, well, I'm too
Speaker 1: big to reintroduce myself to people. I was like, nope,
Speaker 1: I'm in another level now. And this is the way
Speaker 1: I saw it in my mind. It was like I
Speaker 1: was in one office building and the next door was
Speaker 1: a medium sized off the building, and I got promoted
Speaker 1: to that building. And now this building has thirty floors
Speaker 1: and I got to go through every thirty floors to
Speaker 1: make sure all these people know me because they didn't
Speaker 1: know what was going on in this small building. And
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm at floor twenty eight of the
Speaker 1: medium building and I'm like, Okay, I'm ready to go
Speaker 1: to the next building, but I know that once I
Speaker 1: get over there, I'm gonna have to reintroduce myself to
Speaker 1: every single person again, you know. And I don't have
Speaker 1: an ego about it. It makes me feel like this
Speaker 1: is what I'm doing because I love my job. I
Speaker 1: feel blessed. I'm so thankful. I'm humbled by it. So
Speaker 1: I walk in there with humility and like, let me
Speaker 1: keep doing the work and keep working hard and trying
Speaker 1: to strategize.
Speaker 2: And so is there something that you wish somebody would
Speaker 2: have told you before it all popped off?
Speaker 1: Ooh so much? Oh my gosh, Luckily, I already had
Speaker 1: the finances on check because you know, I already knew
Speaker 1: just being in Hollywood, like when you get your big checks,
Speaker 1: don't go buy you a car anything stupid, like hold
Speaker 1: onto your money. And luckily, because of that, like I've
Speaker 1: now set up financially for me and my kids. Is
Speaker 1: I'm very happy about. So that was one thing no
Speaker 1: one had to tell me. But I'm going to just
Speaker 1: tell other people. If you get something big, don't think
Speaker 1: that's your moment to start splurging. You can do something
Speaker 1: nice for yourself, but save I think the thing that
Speaker 1: I would tell someone to tell me is like, you know,
Speaker 1: your good intentions can be canceled, and you can be canceled.
Speaker 1: And you know, one of the things I hate is
Speaker 1: cancel culture. You and I have talked about this for
Speaker 1: I hate hate cancel culture.
Speaker 3: So you subscribe to call in which I love.
Speaker 1: Yes completely, Like let's let's have somebody come in. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about it, because what I know about cancel culture
Speaker 1: is that people who you cancel, they they're not taking
Speaker 1: away their money and they're just I see it all
Speaker 1: the time in Hollywood. They just go to another job
Speaker 1: and now they're not in the public eye, but they're
Speaker 1: still making money. You haven't really done any real damage.
Speaker 1: But I realized that my positive intentions can be construed
Speaker 1: as negative and me being hurtful. And that was the
Speaker 1: thing that that really affected me because for a while,
Speaker 1: you know, last year, I was like, I don't want
Speaker 1: to do anything positive anymore. I like literally got to
Speaker 1: this place where I was like, I don't want to
Speaker 1: do anything good anymore. Because if I'm going to get
Speaker 1: people to hit me up on my social media saying
Speaker 1: you're wrong, you're this, then what am I going to do?
Speaker 1: Why do I want to do this? I don't want to.
Speaker 1: I don't have to do this, So why do I
Speaker 1: want to? I'll give you an example because we're out
Speaker 1: of the thick of it. But while Trump was in office,
Speaker 1: I was very adamant as a Democrat that the only
Speaker 1: way we're going to see eye to eyes if we
Speaker 1: sort of reach out to people who have different views
Speaker 1: in US. And so I made it my mission of
Speaker 1: reaching out to different Republicans to say, hey, this is
Speaker 1: who I am, this is how I feel. I met
Speaker 1: with Karen Pence's chief of staff. You know, I said,
Speaker 1: Sean Spicer was a nice guy on Dancing with the
Speaker 1: Stars and try to talk to him. I met with
Speaker 1: so many Republicans, and every time I did it, people
Speaker 1: would just be like, You're an awful person, I hate you.
Speaker 1: How dare you? They threaten my kids? It was like
Speaker 1: and I was like, I was like, do you really
Speaker 1: think my black gay as with immigrant parents is trying
Speaker 1: to like hurt our community? Like do you really think
Speaker 1: I have some secret agenda of like wanting to hurt?
Speaker 1: But I'm like, I'm trying to go into these spaces
Speaker 1: where we normally don't get we don't get into, to
Speaker 1: try to change these minds and hearts.
Speaker 4: Will it work?
Speaker 1: Who knows? But every time a new headline came out
Speaker 1: that I was a trading size and I was a
Speaker 1: horrible person, it just made me be like, why do
Speaker 1: I want to do good?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: You know, And I have a couple more of those
Speaker 1: situations that have happened where I'm just like, I'm trying
Speaker 1: to do the work the best I know how and
Speaker 1: maybe in ten years I'll be like, oh, there was
Speaker 1: a different approach.
Speaker 4: That I could have taken.
Speaker 1: But it feels bad when you put yourself out there
Speaker 1: because you have a spotlight. People attack you or hurt
Speaker 1: you for it, and I'm open to criticism. I'm open
Speaker 1: to hearing what people have to say, but it does
Speaker 1: hurt my heart sometimes when I'm like, I know my intentions,
Speaker 1: but if my intentions are good and the impact for
Speaker 1: someone else is negative, I understand where there. You know
Speaker 1: where they're coming from, But I don't ever see the
Speaker 1: impact being so negative that you'd want to threaten my kids.
Speaker 1: And so that's one of the things I would have
Speaker 1: told myself before, like watch out for that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it feels so evil you can't even imagine
Speaker 3: it coming.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. The first time someone told my child
Speaker 1: in person that they wanted to kill them because I
Speaker 1: was their dad. And this happened in Philadelphia while we're
Speaker 1: shooting Querai in twenty nineteen. Literally, my son came home.
Speaker 1: This is my grown son came home crying because these
Speaker 1: guys had stopped him and said, oh, you're that f
Speaker 1: words son. We want to kill your dad or he
Speaker 1: wants to be a Republican now, will kill him and
Speaker 1: show him and all this stuff. And my son comes
Speaker 1: home crying, and I'm like, there's people really that dishes
Speaker 1: that will find my children. That's why I stop posting
Speaker 1: my kids so much until recently that my son was like,
Speaker 1: can we get on TikTok? And I was like cute.
Speaker 1: But I stopped posting them because.
Speaker 4: I was like, dude, okay, we can if you're fine.
Speaker 1: But I stopped posting because I was like, I don't
Speaker 1: want people to see you and know where you're at,
Speaker 1: and like, yeah, harass you.
Speaker 3: So anyway, Oh, my stomach dropped when you said that.
Speaker 3: That's horrible. Yeah, I'm so sorry that happened.
Speaker 1: Thank you of you know, but it's one of those
Speaker 1: things that I wish someone would have told me before that.
Speaker 1: You know, people can get bile, you know, and for
Speaker 1: every good person out there, there's always somebody who is hurting,
Speaker 1: who wants to you know, conflict plane and so I just,
Speaker 1: you know, just being smarter about watching out for that
Speaker 1: is what I've learned since this thing has taken off.
Speaker 3: It's interesting when you talk about hurt.
Speaker 2: I think about how you are the one that transforms
Speaker 2: people's lives on the show, and yet as a friend
Speaker 2: and a fan of yours, I've seen your life transform,
Speaker 2: and I'm wondering how you feel like Queer Eye transformed you.
Speaker 3: What gift has it given you?
Speaker 1: Queer eye allows me to believe that good, wholesome content
Speaker 1: is just as exciting as you know, like ratchet content.
Speaker 1: And I don't want to call it rapt because it
Speaker 1: sounds like I'm judging because I love ratchet reality shows.
Speaker 4: I love them.
Speaker 1: Give me a Bad Girls Club, give me a love
Speaker 1: and hip hop anytime I'm watching this, but I love them.
Speaker 1: But it really helped me to see, you know what,
Speaker 1: it's possible. Like my dream, the only dream that I
Speaker 1: have left in this business, there's only two, is just
Speaker 1: selling content and you know, having my own production company,
Speaker 1: which I've now done, and I'm going to be announcing
Speaker 1: two shows very soon that I've sold and that are
Speaker 1: going to be coming on air, and so you've got
Speaker 1: to kind of get a little bit exclusive there.
Speaker 3: But oh my god, Mule, that is so exciting.
Speaker 4: Thank you love.
Speaker 1: And then the second thing is I want to be
Speaker 1: a talk show host, and so I want my own
Speaker 1: daytime talk show and.
Speaker 3: Need the world that needs it. Since I have known
Speaker 3: you that like you are the millennial?
Speaker 1: Are you a millennial?
Speaker 3: You are a millennial, Oprah. There's no one else that
Speaker 3: has that gift. It has to it will happen. I
Speaker 3: know it will.
Speaker 4: I appreciate that and I received that.
Speaker 1: But what it's helped me Queer Eye, is that I
Speaker 1: realized in the content that I'm creating that I've sold
Speaker 1: and then hopefully with my talk show one day, is
Speaker 1: that it can be positive. And I love like when
Speaker 1: I talk about daytime TV, I love the Sally just Raphael's,
Speaker 1: I love News, I love these are old schools for
Speaker 1: anybody who's younger that don't know these are eighties. But
Speaker 1: I also love like the Maury's. I love these shows
Speaker 1: because you see real people and I believe that there's
Speaker 1: a way, Like recently, I've had the opportunity to guest
Speaker 1: hosts for Maury like a couple of different times, and
Speaker 1: you know, Maury does such a great job on his show,
Speaker 1: but he's given me a chance to go deeper and
Speaker 1: like to see the humanity in them and to like
Speaker 1: really have them have breakdown. Was of like why are
Speaker 1: you on here? And the first time Maury allowed me
Speaker 1: and this was real, I thought I was gonna get
Speaker 1: in trouble because I went on this man's show and
Speaker 1: I had this it was a paternity test I had
Speaker 1: the man who brought this woman on who he knew
Speaker 1: it was his baby, but he brought her on and
Speaker 1: embarrassed her, was calling her all keepnine. I was like,
Speaker 1: you need to apologize. You need to apologize for bringing
Speaker 1: her on national TV and embarrassing her, and then we
Speaker 1: need to go deeper and find out why you thought
Speaker 1: that was appropriate page Why did you think this was
Speaker 1: okay to do? Why do you think And I'm telling
Speaker 1: this to his guest. This is somebody who called.
Speaker 4: It his shone.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, these people are not inviting me back.
Speaker 1: But they had this cathartic cry and they were like wow,
Speaker 1: and we got to the heart of what was the reason.
Speaker 1: And I was like, if I could do that every week,
Speaker 1: every day, that'd be amazing. And so, you know, Queer
Speaker 1: Eye gave me that ability to believe that, yes, there's
Speaker 1: always a space for like the truth and the reality
Speaker 1: and the corb and where you don't have to judge,
Speaker 1: but you could really help my to grow and heal,
Speaker 1: you know. And so yeah, Queer I did that for me.
Speaker 2: It's cool to hear you say that, because I think
Speaker 2: shows like Maury had in the last like five years,
Speaker 2: maybe a connotation of exploitation a bit, and to shift
Speaker 2: that and to get to the root of the hurt
Speaker 2: would be amazing for that show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's what I've been doing, and that's why
Speaker 1: they keep bringing me back. I've just been like getting
Speaker 1: to the root of it of like let's really talk,
Speaker 1: you know, like let's really figure out what's going on.
Speaker 1: Because it's funny we see these we see individuals who
Speaker 1: call on these talk shows, and from my perspective, you
Speaker 1: can't always tie everything in a ribbon and a bow,
Speaker 1: but you can set people on the path to get
Speaker 1: real closure and real healing. I realize I know how
Speaker 1: to do that professionally and personally because I've lived it,
Speaker 1: and I've lived through most of the things you know
Speaker 1: that these people have been through. Like I think that's
Speaker 1: one of my greatest gifts, and that's why I'm so vulnerable,
Speaker 1: is because the more people know I've been through what
Speaker 1: they've been through, then the more they're willing to hear
Speaker 1: me and understand that they can make it through. You
Speaker 1: can't look at me and say, well, you don't know
Speaker 1: what it's like to have to be a team parent.
Speaker 1: You don't know what it's like to be a single parent.
Speaker 1: You don't know what it's like to have no money.
Speaker 1: You don't know what it's like to be on drugs.
Speaker 1: You don't know what it's like to be an abusive relationship.
Speaker 1: You don't know what it's still in the blank. I'm like, girl, Yes,
Speaker 1: I do lived it, been there and grown through it,
Speaker 1: and now it's time for you to do the same.
Speaker 1: And that's what I think my greatest gift is to
Speaker 1: this world right now. And it's only because of that vulnerability.
Speaker 3: Wow, that should be the stump speech. Can we make
Speaker 3: a teaser of that?
Speaker 2: That was so But you're right, the people that have
Speaker 2: been through the most have the most to give, and
Speaker 2: it's you're using it as a gift.
Speaker 1: Yeah, trying every single day.
Speaker 2: So I saw a pinch me moment before we went
Speaker 2: into lockdown. You were talking about how you met Oprah.
Speaker 3: Yes, was it everything you were hoping? Or was it?
Speaker 3: Was she a mere mortal?
Speaker 1: She was not a mere mortal, And I wish I
Speaker 1: could say she was. She floated, she floats to the room.
Speaker 1: She's beautiful, she's kind. But what humbled me? And I
Speaker 1: promise you one of my friends was with me when
Speaker 1: I met her the first time. I spent three hours
Speaker 1: crying in a corner because she came up to me
Speaker 1: and she said she knew my name already. She hugged me.
Speaker 1: I put a bit of it on my Instagram, like
Speaker 1: a video. She told me she was like. I had
Speaker 1: a shirt on and said Black Day gifted. She was there.
Speaker 1: She was like, oh my gosh. She was great and
Speaker 1: an actor. The whuha was finished. She turned to me
Speaker 1: and she was like, I've been watching you. What you're
Speaker 1: doing is great. You're next? And I was like, did
Speaker 1: Oprah to say I'm next?
Speaker 4: I don't even don't. I don't even know.
Speaker 1: She could have been talking about next to go eat,
Speaker 1: but in my mind I was like, she's telling me
Speaker 1: I'm next. Well, I know what you're saying. She was
Speaker 1: saying I was next. But I cried for three hours.
Speaker 1: I cried for three hours because it was such a validation.
Speaker 1: It was such validation from somebody I respect so much.
Speaker 3: And talk about that little kid being seen.
Speaker 1: Right, Oh my god, Oh my gosh, yes, I do.
Speaker 3: I think you're next. I believe that.
Speaker 4: Oh thank you.
Speaker 3: So I have some end rapid fires for you.
Speaker 4: I like it. Rapid fires.
Speaker 1: I will be as honest as I can do.
Speaker 3: Of course you're you, of course you will. Okay, this,
Speaker 3: I guess is not as rapid.
Speaker 2: But what is a lesson you learned in therapy that
Speaker 2: you wish everyone could have access to?
Speaker 1: Ooh, I tell people this all time. Comparison is the
Speaker 1: thief of joy. Comparison is the thief of joy. You
Speaker 1: keep looking at what other people have. You're forgetting what
Speaker 1: you already have. Don't compare your journey to other people's journey.
Speaker 1: Don't look at them and say why am I not married? Why?
Speaker 1: Why don't I have this? Why don't I have more money?
Speaker 1: Focus on you and be thankful what you have, and
Speaker 1: then take the steps every day to get to what
Speaker 1: you want and desire.
Speaker 3: Okay, let's go. The best part of being you right now,
Speaker 3: at the age.
Speaker 1: You're at, ooh, is that I have a lot of clarity.
Speaker 1: And I didn't have this clarity in my twenties. But
Speaker 1: I feel clear And that's such a beautiful feeling to
Speaker 1: wake up and feel clear about where I'm going. And
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that every day I don't have challenges,
Speaker 1: but it means that I'm clear about how to handle
Speaker 1: the challenges. And to not let them get me down.
Speaker 2: How do you have the clarity and the same abs
Speaker 2: that you had when you were twenty It's like, it's
Speaker 2: not supposed to go.
Speaker 1: Like that quarantine. Oh please, I'm trying to get it down.
Speaker 3: Oh that does not exist for you.
Speaker 1: It got down for a little bit, but it came back.
Speaker 2: Okay, a book that shifted your perspective, something you think
Speaker 2: everybody should read.
Speaker 1: Oh, Jay shetties Think like a Monk? Really, Yes, he's
Speaker 1: a friend of mine, but I didn't buy his book
Speaker 1: because of that. I thought I just wanted to learn
Speaker 1: because he's really is someone who takes the time to
Speaker 1: really think about how you can be better in practical ways.
Speaker 1: Because I love people who are like self help, but
Speaker 1: a lot of them go with people's heads and I
Speaker 1: hate information that go with you. I need practical one, two, three,
Speaker 1: What do I do today? How do I start? How
Speaker 1: do I finish? You know all these things and Jay
Speaker 1: Shetty's book Think Like a Monk was extraordinary and giving
Speaker 1: me even new perspectives. So yeah, I would recommend that
Speaker 1: all day long.
Speaker 3: Okay, we're going to add that to the library. Thank you.
Speaker 2: A mentor or person that you've met on your journey
Speaker 2: that you think changed the trajectory of your life or
Speaker 2: made a real tremendous impact.
Speaker 1: Well, there's been a lot of those.
Speaker 3: I call those the angels.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people, but I would tell you
Speaker 1: the one thing consists about all of them, as if
Speaker 1: they're all women. I think that women are the greater sex.
Speaker 1: Not to be a traitor to my gender, but I
Speaker 1: think they're the best. My strength, my vulnerability has always
Speaker 1: come from women guiding me. You know, I think that
Speaker 1: this world be a better place women were running it fully.
Speaker 1: And I'm not trying to say that all women are
Speaker 1: just perfect or anything, but I'm just like all of
Speaker 1: my mentors who have showed me how to be vulnerable,
Speaker 1: how to be kind but also be smart, be giving,
Speaker 1: have always been women. I'm the product of four sisters
Speaker 1: and my mom. Women have always been the best gift
Speaker 1: in my life and had been the best gift of
Speaker 1: this world. And so I just would say thank you
Speaker 1: to all women out there for you being you and
Speaker 1: for you putting up with the shit that you've dealt
Speaker 1: with and still coming out strong and loving and kind.
Speaker 1: And that's it. So women, all my mentors are women, right?
Speaker 2: So I do a pretty smart question and I picked
Speaker 2: one at random. I'm very excited at the one you
Speaker 2: got because you've been to a lot of great parties.
Speaker 2: What's the best party you've been to set the scene
Speaker 2: for us?
Speaker 1: Oh, the Vanity Fair Oscar Party. I've been now two
Speaker 1: years in a row. This would have been my third year,
Speaker 1: and when I tell you, it is amazing because you're
Speaker 1: literally standing next to some of like Hollywood's biggest stars
Speaker 1: and everyone is so comfortable. So I'm going to give
Speaker 1: you a story from last year. And it's funny because
Speaker 1: if my ex was here, he'd be screaming because he
Speaker 1: was there with me. But basically, I saw these people
Speaker 1: taking a photo. I was behind them and I was
Speaker 1: a little kiss like go I, and so I went
Speaker 1: behind them to sort of like crash the photo and
Speaker 1: I turned around. The person turned around and was like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, Karama, I love you. And I was like,
Speaker 1: I took a deep breath and it was Galdado, wonder
Speaker 1: Woman herself, and I was like, I was like, hi Gal.
Speaker 1: She was like, oh, Carmo, I love you. And I'm
Speaker 1: thinking I just was photobomming you. I didn't know who
Speaker 1: you were. I just went behind random people. And her
Speaker 1: husband was like, oh my gosh, she does love you, Caramo.
Speaker 1: She goes to sleep to your voice every night. I
Speaker 1: swear to god, I've never shared the story with anyone.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh my gosh, thank you, Dal
Speaker 1: Just like the work that you're doing. I just really
Speaker 1: love it. And then next to her was Josh Dad
Speaker 1: and Josh was like, man, dude, I love you as well,
Speaker 1: like really, And I'm sitting here, I'm looking at this
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what the freaking fuck is Josh Dadd
Speaker 1: and Gal Galbado like saying they know me and they
Speaker 1: like me, and I was just like, it was mind blowing.
Speaker 2: But those are two really heartfelt actors. So it's because
Speaker 2: I feel like real recognize real. It was the law
Speaker 2: of attraction.
Speaker 1: It was the law of attraction.
Speaker 4: It was also the law of me being tipsy and
Speaker 4: me and super and nupty like you know whatever, but
Speaker 4: it was.
Speaker 1: It was amazing. And in that party I'm talking about,
Speaker 1: You're just coming across like mel Street, like you know,
Speaker 1: like Michael B. Jordan and we're just all hanging and talking.
Speaker 1: And for me, even when I'm in those situations. I
Speaker 1: still feel like the little gay boy in Texas that
Speaker 1: was shy and I just had to fight through it
Speaker 1: because I'm like, this may never happen again, so enjoy
Speaker 1: this moment. But Vandy Fair Party is the most exciting
Speaker 1: party I've ever been to in my life. The drinks
Speaker 1: are free, the food is free, and the people are
Speaker 1: just kind and beautiful.
Speaker 2: It sounds like it's one of the few that is
Speaker 2: even better irl than on Instagram.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it's so much better in real life.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Okay, because on Instagram and look, you see people still,
Speaker 1: but like when you're there, people are just dancing and
Speaker 1: having the best time, and you be in like a
Speaker 1: dance circle, and all of a sudden you'll be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm in a dance circle with Melissa McCarthy. I was
Speaker 1: literally in a dance like battle with Melissa McCarthy and
Speaker 1: her husband the year that they wore tracksuits to the
Speaker 1: Bandy Fairpark.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I would say to see that video me.
Speaker 1: Too, I'm like, I just wish we were dancing and
Speaker 1: it was like crazy that You're like, what in the world.
Speaker 1: But anyway, that's when you.
Speaker 3: Need like a secret personal photographer following you around all night.
Speaker 4: Right, you do?
Speaker 1: You do?
Speaker 3: Okay, This is.
Speaker 2: The last question and you can take it however, like
Speaker 2: for whatever comes up first.
Speaker 3: What's the smartest decision you've ever made?
Speaker 1: Smart decision I ever made was to bet on myself
Speaker 1: because betting on myself for me meant then I trust
Speaker 1: that I had the ability to do what's going to
Speaker 1: be right myself, to never give up, to ask for help,
Speaker 1: to make a plan, you know, to bet on me
Speaker 1: because I think a lot of times we don't bet
Speaker 1: on ourselves, because we've been so broken down by what
Speaker 1: the world has done to us. And when you truly
Speaker 1: bet on yourself and you believe in yourself, the world
Speaker 1: opens up. And I've seen it happen to me, I've
Speaker 1: seen it happen to other people. So yeah, betting all myself.
Speaker 2: I love you so much. You are as beautiful on
Speaker 2: the inside as you are on the outside.
Speaker 3: It's very rare.
Speaker 1: I love you too, and the same goes to you.
Speaker 1: I really do appreciate you having me on your podcast.
Speaker 5: Talk to you soon, babe, I'll talk to you.
Speaker 3: Good day, all right, Today is a good day to
Speaker 3: have a good day. I'll see you next week,