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Speaker 1: Folks.

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Speaker 2: It is Sunday, February fifteenth, and two weeks ago today,

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Speaker 2: eighty four year old Nancy Guthrie was reported missing, and

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Speaker 2: after it first telling us how urgent the search was,

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Speaker 2: the sheriff is now saying it could take years to

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Speaker 2: crack this case. Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ.

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Speaker 1: Robes.

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Speaker 2: Not a lot of developments, necessarily concrete developments in this case.

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Speaker 2: But this comment I found odd, surprising and disturbing.

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Speaker 3: What is going on with all of those resources and

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Speaker 3: the intense search that is going on right now and

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Speaker 3: the hope that still remains for the Guthrie family to

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Speaker 3: make a public statement like that doesn't seem helpful or

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Speaker 3: I'm just confused why he would even go there. Maybe

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Speaker 3: he's trying to temper expectations. Maybe he's trying to get

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Speaker 3: reporters off his back saying this could take a while.

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Speaker 3: But that is a bold and just discouraging statement to

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Speaker 3: say the least.

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Speaker 2: You said, maybe it was this, maybe it was that.

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Speaker 2: Could it also maybe be that he had just an

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Speaker 2: honest moment and they have nothing.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I guess that is the case, and I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I just you're not used to seeing investigators tip their

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Speaker 3: hand like that, or police say something like that, especially

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Speaker 3: when they know there's an expectant family holding their breath,

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Speaker 3: praying every night, wishing and hoping for the best, and

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Speaker 3: maybe privately you could temper their expectations to publicly say that.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. It's just a head scratcher for me.

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Speaker 2: So let's put this in the full context of what

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Speaker 2: he said, and we'll get We're about to give you

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Speaker 2: the exact quote from Pima County Sheriff Nanol's out there

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Speaker 2: who everybody's become familiar with at this point. With his

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Speaker 2: case the Robes, he hasn't been doing well well. I

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Speaker 2: don't even know when the last official press briefing was,

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Speaker 2: but he has from time to time come out and

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Speaker 2: done interviews. Certainly keeps the local affiliates there updated, but

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Speaker 2: he hasn't been doing a lot of press. But he

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Speaker 2: did around here over the past couple of days after

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Speaker 2: there have been some developments in Robes. One of the

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Speaker 2: outlets he did sit down with and give comments to

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Speaker 2: was The New York Times. Not a lot of information

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Speaker 2: in there, necessarily, but Robes. This jumped off the screen

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Speaker 2: to me and it happened to be. I think it

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Speaker 2: was the last line they put in the story.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that's interesting. That wasn't even their headline.

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Speaker 1: But it's everybody else's.

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Speaker 3: Yes, this isn't that funny. So the comment is this,

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Speaker 3: he said to the New York Times, the sheriff. Maybe

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Speaker 3: it's an hour from now, maybe it's weeks or months

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Speaker 3: or years from now, but we won't quit. We're going

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Speaker 3: to find Nancy. We're going to find this guy. So

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Speaker 3: it was oddly in a positive statement that he dropped

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Speaker 3: this little bit of information that you know, wasn't something

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Speaker 3: that any of us had heard before. As you pointed

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Speaker 3: out at the top of this, every single comment we've

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Speaker 3: heard from the sheriff and from investigators has been that

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Speaker 3: time is not on their side, that this is an

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Speaker 3: urgent search. There is an elderly woman who needs her medication,

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Speaker 3: family members desperate defined her, and there have been developments.

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Speaker 3: DNA has been found that does not match Nancy Guthrie

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Speaker 3: or any of her family or close friends. So that's

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Speaker 3: a very you would think positive development. They have been

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Speaker 3: starting to detain people and question people, seemingly getting at

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Speaker 3: least some sort of tip that leads them in a direction,

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Speaker 3: which means there could be others. They have to sip

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Speaker 3: through tens of thousands of tips and they need the

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Speaker 3: one that actually points them in the right direction.

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Speaker 2: And if so, I thought it was interesting as well.

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Speaker 2: He used the word exhausting. But we've talked about it

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Speaker 2: here ropes. You hear right after they released that front

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Speaker 2: door camera video, they have a suspect they're looking at right,

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Speaker 2: he's got a ski mask over there. Tips start flooding

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Speaker 2: in after that, and they detained a guy and we

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Speaker 2: were holding our breath and then there was nothing and

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Speaker 2: the guy was released. And it happens to be nothing

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Speaker 2: to it. Those ups and downs we're experiencing. He spoke

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Speaker 2: on the experience in the menzuel and called them exhausting,

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Speaker 2: that these ups and downs, and that guy this was

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Speaker 2: another honest moment. He said, Yeah, that door dash guy,

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Speaker 2: that first guy we detained. We thought that was it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he said, this has to be the evidence. Everything's there.

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Speaker 3: Then you talk to people, you learn, you do your

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Speaker 3: search anything maybe not. Yeah, I mean, look, this is

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Speaker 3: it's interesting. When you have a local sheriff, Pima County sheriff,

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Speaker 3: you probably wouldn't expect that he has a lot of

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Speaker 3: experience dealing with a case on this level, and certainly

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Speaker 3: not dealing with press at this level. At this level, God, yes,

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Speaker 3: he's he's probably just being himself, being the local sheriff

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Speaker 3: that he's always been. It doesn't always necessarily translate when

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Speaker 3: you have an international story where you have a network

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Speaker 3: news anchor's mother vanish and in such a bizarre, unexplicable

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Speaker 3: way that he really he's had nothing in his career.

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Speaker 3: I would imagine that would have prepared him to put

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Speaker 3: him into spot life like this. So perhaps he says

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Speaker 3: things and does things that may be members of the press,

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Speaker 3: and certainly people who are reading these articles are thinking,

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Speaker 3: why did he just say that? What did he just say?

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Speaker 3: But you have to take him at his word. He's

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Speaker 3: being honest. He's not putting on. He's not media trained,

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Speaker 3: so to speak, where he knows the slick and smooth

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Speaker 3: non answer to give. He's not a politician. So in

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Speaker 3: a way it's refreshing, But we're also maybe even a

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Speaker 3: little taken aback at how honest he's being in moments.

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Speaker 2: And look, we have to start with just giving him

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Speaker 2: credit for being able to do his job well behind

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Speaker 2: the scenes. You don't have to be that versed in

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Speaker 2: how to handle the press. Some are better than others,

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Speaker 2: but when everybody is hanging on to your every word

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Speaker 2: and desperate for information, every step can potentially be a

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Speaker 2: misstep for this guy, and he is look, Roges, we

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Speaker 2: haven't gotten into It doesn't necessarily have to. He is

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Speaker 2: getting just ripped online left and right. And I understand

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Speaker 2: a criticism, but who are we to say if he's

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Speaker 2: doing this right or doing this wrong? Even this comment

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Speaker 2: we're talking about might be an honest one. This isn't

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Speaker 2: a criticism from us about what he's saying. For Rogues,

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Speaker 2: it's it's been two weeks. They said, we don't get.

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Speaker 1: This woman home in twenty four hours, the worst could happen.

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Speaker 2: And to hear him in certain when he first said

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Speaker 2: robes ah, damn, I ain't think about this till now.

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Speaker 2: Should we have been taking the signs that this statement

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Speaker 2: might have been coming? When was it when he said

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Speaker 2: no further press briefings scheduled. He hasn't had one in

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Speaker 2: a week plus. But to tell us this is urgent.

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Speaker 2: We need to find her or she could die to

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Speaker 2: no more press briefing schedules. And yet this thing could

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Speaker 2: take weeks, months or years to find out. You put

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Speaker 2: piece that together. Something is happening behind the scenes that

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Speaker 2: is not giving them confidence.

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Speaker 3: Well, and I think they're frustrated. You know, you have

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Speaker 3: all this activity. The press is like three people have

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Speaker 3: been detained. You're seeing white tents go up, and they're

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Speaker 3: analyzing vehicles, and they're searching homes. And again, probably not

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Speaker 3: something this Sheriff's department is used to doing to look

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Speaker 3: for a missing person like this with the world watching.

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Speaker 3: And so yes, he called the ups and downs of

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Speaker 3: the case exhausting. As you pointed out, this is probably

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Speaker 3: fairly new, a new intensity that he and his team

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Speaker 3: have not experienced before. And yes, we're all waiting and hoping,

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Speaker 3: and certainly the family is on another level. But the

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Speaker 3: police feel that scrutiny and that intense pressure, and so yeah,

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Speaker 3: they're probably not sleeping much, and he certainly is not

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Speaker 3: sleeping much, so he might say things he wishes he hadn't.

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Speaker 3: I can't imagine being Savannah's family and seeing that headline,

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Speaker 3: even if you know in the back of your mind

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Speaker 3: it's possible. Obviously, they've had to leave a certain small

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Speaker 3: amount of space amid all the hope they have that shit,

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Speaker 3: we might not ever find our mom. That's got to

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Speaker 3: be that's the scary thought in the back of their

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Speaker 3: head that they know is there that they probably have

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Speaker 3: never acknowledged or don't want to acknowledge, and certainly not publicly.

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Speaker 3: And now you got the sheriff saying it to the

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Speaker 3: New York Times. That's tough to read.

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Speaker 2: And it seems impossible, Robes that we could not know

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Speaker 2: even in two weeks, that we don't know what happened

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Speaker 2: to this lady. We don't know where she is, what conditions.

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Speaker 2: It seems completely implausible all the resources. Now, how do

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Speaker 2: you disappear? There have been people who've put extensive efforts

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Speaker 2: into trying to disappear, and we find them, and.

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Speaker 3: We still find them.

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Speaker 2: And when they make tried as hard as Robes, how

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Speaker 2: is this possible to just abscond with an eighty four

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Speaker 2: year old, sickly lady who is not mobile.

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Speaker 1: And I don't get this story. Baby.

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Speaker 2: This is if you want to start throwing in theories

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Speaker 2: about alien abduction, I will listen, because that makes just

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Speaker 2: as much sense as some of the theories floating out there.

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Speaker 1: Nothing makes sense.

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Speaker 3: No, because you look the motive is never necessary when

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Speaker 3: you're at a criminal trial when someone's been charged, and

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Speaker 3: yet it's the thing that a jury wants to hear,

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Speaker 3: and it's certainly something that police want to know when

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Speaker 3: they're investigating, so that they can have a focus, have

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Speaker 3: a place to know. Why would someone want to do this?

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Speaker 3: And we've talked about it. Obviously it's either money or

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Speaker 3: it's passion. It was something that this person clearly planned

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Speaker 3: out with what they brought to the home that day,

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Speaker 3: so it had to be premeditated. But the big glaring

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Speaker 3: question is why why? And if you can't figure out

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Speaker 3: the why, it's pretty hard to find the new.

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Speaker 1: Robes it took her on purpose?

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Speaker 2: If you wanted to kill her, would have killed her

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Speaker 2: there right, Yes, if you want to take her, it

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Speaker 2: has to be for money. Why are you going to

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Speaker 2: take an eighty four year old woman who's sickly you

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Speaker 2: got to take care of.

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Speaker 1: It's so ransom makes sense.

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Speaker 2: But how many notes have we've gotten from different TV

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Speaker 2: stations and news outlets and now from somebody who's a

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Speaker 2: rat who says, I know who.

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Speaker 1: The kidnapper is. We give me money. Yes, this story

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Speaker 1: is beyond no.

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Speaker 3: I was gonna say. And the other option is, so

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Speaker 3: maybe it started out. We've talked about this. It started

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Speaker 3: out as a kidnapping, something went wrong. She she died,

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Speaker 3: whether he or the suspect intended to or not. Wouldn't

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Speaker 3: you then have to get rid of the body, so

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Speaker 3: you can't keep it in your home like you can't

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Speaker 3: like so, I mean, I guess there are ways, but

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Speaker 3: I just like, it's so baffling.

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Speaker 1: And you want to leave open And I said that you.

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Speaker 2: I said this to you where we were in the

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Speaker 2: car yesterday and we were talking about it, and wees

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Speaker 2: the only way this story gets bigger is if somehow

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Speaker 2: this woman is found alive, that she is found somewhere

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Speaker 2: and Nancy Guthrie's comes out of this. Okay, you have

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Speaker 2: to hold on to that hope, at least publicly. Robes

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Speaker 2: with the information we know, we don't have any reason

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Speaker 2: to think otherwise. The family don't know how much different

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Speaker 2: information they have. But tones messaging have changed in the

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Speaker 2: past two weeks of this story. But there have been developments,

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Speaker 2: including DNA that Robes just mentioned, also new ways to

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Speaker 2: submit tips, and there have been tons of them. Stay here,

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Speaker 2: We'll give you the very latest, including what was an

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Speaker 2: increase in police activity this weekend? All right, we continue

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Speaker 2: here on Amy and TJ two weeks to the day

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Speaker 2: that Nancy Guthrie was reported missing and still no signs

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Speaker 2: of her robes. It's important to make this there was

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Speaker 2: some increased police activity, and they made clear after that

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Speaker 2: that no matter what you've been hearing about detainments and

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Speaker 2: whatever else, we got nobody.

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Speaker 3: No arrests, no suspects, no persons of interest, and thirty

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Speaker 3: two thousand tips to go chase down.

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Speaker 2: And that video made all the difference. And that's a

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Speaker 2: good thing. You want to generate tips, But robes, there's

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Speaker 2: so many now they say they got four hundred investigators

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Speaker 2: going through thirty two. They have to decide which one

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Speaker 2: this rises to the level. This one looks like we

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Speaker 2: should go after this one first and then track that down,

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Speaker 2: and then the next one and the next one.

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Speaker 3: Thirty two thousand, that's overwhelming. I was curious with the

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Speaker 3: DNA that we've talked about, because it is it is fascinating,

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Speaker 3: with all of the theories that had been swirling around initially,

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Speaker 3: and everyone always looks, including police, especially at the people

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Speaker 3: who purported to love Nancy Guthrie or no, Nancy Guthrie.

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Speaker 3: You're much more likely, obviously to be killed or have

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Speaker 3: some harm come your way by a close friend or

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Speaker 3: family member. But that DNA, at least the DNA that

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Speaker 3: they found in the home, we don't know what form

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Speaker 3: it took, but they were able to rule out family

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Speaker 3: and her close friends. That is of incredible significance. I

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Speaker 3: was curious because they say the DNA didn't hit a match.

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Speaker 3: Obviously they've got folks who have already been arrested. They've

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Speaker 3: got a basically a database, a database of folks they

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Speaker 3: could link up to. That would have been the most

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Speaker 3: obvious and most the easiest way, I guess for there

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Speaker 3: to be some sort of a connection. But you were

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Speaker 3: watching I woke up this morning to you watching True

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Speaker 3: Crime per usual, and they were actually talking about taking

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Speaker 3: DNA and putting it into one of these twenty three

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Speaker 3: and meters types of databases and finding relatives and then

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Speaker 3: hunting down the person. Yes, they might not have committed

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Speaker 3: a crime, but they might have had relatives who go

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Speaker 3: on to some of these ancestry websites, and that's a

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Speaker 3: way how you can zero in and find a person

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Speaker 3: at least who this DNA may belong to.

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Speaker 1: Surely they're doing that.

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Speaker 3: I was so if I woke up thinking about this

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Speaker 3: case because I was listening in my dream, like stake

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Speaker 3: to your to your show.

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Speaker 1: They got that guy, by the way, Oh they did

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Speaker 1: exactly that.

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Speaker 2: That to your point, that's exactly how they tracked down

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Speaker 2: a killer. This woman some genealogists. Lady just offered her

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Speaker 2: services to a police department. She had to go to them.

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Speaker 2: Kind of a thing. Well, IM, we have to assume

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Speaker 2: they're doing this. They're doing absolutely everything, but robes. If

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Speaker 2: they're doing absolutely everything, seems like something after two weeks

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Speaker 2: should put them on some path. It's amazing. It's they

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Speaker 2: the way they talk to us, Babe. They talk like

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Speaker 2: they have nothing. They talk like they have nothing, and

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Speaker 2: I'm blown away the DNA part. So now we're talking.

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Speaker 2: They apparently other people worked at the home and whatnot,

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Speaker 2: but everybody who was known to go in and out

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Speaker 2: has been eliminated from this DNA. They found who was

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Speaker 2: in there and robes even when they figured out, I

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Speaker 2: don't know, leftover from a pizza delivery guy could have

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Speaker 2: been left over, but we don't know if it's blood,

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Speaker 2: if what they're talking about they found.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So it seems as though if they're actually talking

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Speaker 3: about this DNA they found that wasn't Nancy Guthries, you

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Speaker 3: would think it had to be something that was from

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Speaker 3: I would assume it'd have to be blood. I mean,

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Speaker 3: just because it would be the only thing that would

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Speaker 3: make sense that that would be of interest if it was. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, I mean, I guess they're looking at fingerprints,

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Speaker 3: are looking at everything, a cigarette, it could be.

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Speaker 2: Who what any of this could be. They have set

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Speaker 2: up now and how this who knows how this is

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Speaker 2: going to go. They set up links the FBI and

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Speaker 2: the Pema County Sheriff. Click on a link and you

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Speaker 2: could submit any evidence. As it says, but any tip

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Speaker 2: that's going to get flooded now probably.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And you think about it. You got one hundred

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Speaker 3: thousand dollars out there for someone that's not chump change.

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Speaker 3: It started out of twenty five hundred, it went up

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Speaker 3: to fifty thousand, and now it's at one hundred thousand dollars.

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Speaker 3: If you provide the information that leads to the arrest

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Speaker 3: or conviction of the person responsible for taking Nancy Guthrie,

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Speaker 3: that is a hell of a reward, and you would

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Speaker 3: think it would be incredibly incentivizing.

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Speaker 2: But whatever this bozo is, and maybe it did. The

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Speaker 2: incentive is to get the money and try to insert

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Speaker 2: yourself into a story and try to do a scam.

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Speaker 2: But we as the latest note that we know of

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Speaker 2: that has been received as a second one or not

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Speaker 2: a third one, that came from someone who sent it

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Speaker 2: to TMZ claiming that they know who the kidnapper is

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Speaker 2: and now they want one hundred thousand dollars and they

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Speaker 2: want it by sending me one part of it in

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Speaker 2: bitcoin and I promise I won't cash it in until

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Speaker 2: you catch the kidnapper and then I want the other half.

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Speaker 2: What So that's where we are. That is at this point, Robes. No,

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Speaker 2: they still haven't said that's credible yet. They haven't tol seven.

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Speaker 3: No, they haven't. And I look, there have been almost

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Speaker 3: every day. I think yesterday might have been the exception.

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Speaker 3: There have been interesting, strange, out of left field developments

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Speaker 3: that have kept this story in the forefront of a

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Speaker 3: lot of folks minds. It's kept it on the front

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Speaker 3: page of all of our online news sources, and certainly

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Speaker 3: it's something people continue to talk about. That's good for

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Speaker 3: the Guthries, who want people focused, want pressure on police. However,

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Speaker 3: at a certain point, when you have the sheriff coming

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Speaker 3: out and talking about it could take years and there

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Speaker 3: really aren't any new developments. The biggest fear that you

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Speaker 3: could possibly imagine for the Guthries is that people just

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Speaker 3: stop caring because it just seems so hopeless and it

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Speaker 3: just seems like there's nothing happening. So I fear that, like,

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Speaker 3: at least some of these developments, even if they don't

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Speaker 3: bear fruit, even if they don't get us closer to

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Speaker 3: knowing who the suspect has is, at least it keeps

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Speaker 3: the interest alive on the story, which is important.

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Speaker 2: You talk about the interest, and you're right. I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to remember the last significant, like real concrete updates. You know,

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Speaker 2: it was the video, But other than that, so many

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Speaker 2: of the updates have been bizarre.

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Speaker 1: Here's another one.

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Speaker 2: The sheriff in charge who just told us two weeks

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Speaker 2: ago we new to find her in twenty four hours,

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Speaker 2: say yeah, this could take years.

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Speaker 1: That's a bizarre story, but still nothing concrete. Folks.

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Speaker 2: We didn't expect to frankly hop on and give an

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Speaker 2: update on the This has happened several times. We probably

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Speaker 2: won't do a gu three update tomorrow, and then we

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Speaker 2: wake up as something happens, we go, holy shit, is

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Speaker 2: this so? We just wanted to hop on give you

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Speaker 2: this update. This is something that you and certainly we

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Speaker 2: are keeping our eyes on. We always appreciate you spending

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Speaker 2: time and trusting.

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Speaker 1: Us with this story.

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Speaker 2: But always top right corner of your Apple podcast app

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Speaker 2: where you see our show page as a little button

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Speaker 2: there that says follow click that you can make sure

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Speaker 2: the updates always come to you. That's your way to

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Speaker 2: subscribe and get the updates. There have been a plenty.

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Speaker 2: We will keep an eye on it, folks. We always

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Speaker 2: appreciate you spending time with us on TJ Holmes on

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Speaker 2: behalf of my dear Amy Robach.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk to you soon.

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Speaker 2: Things youssssss