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Speaker 5: Hey Daniel, do you have a pretty good routine?

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Speaker 1: You mean like a dance routine or like ten tight

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Speaker 1: minutes of stand up comedy?

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Speaker 5: I mean like a schedule, Like do you have the

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Speaker 5: same day planned every day or do you wing it

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Speaker 5: every day?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm pretty into my schedules. It's the only way

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Speaker 1: I can really stay on top of everything.

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Speaker 5: Oh man, that is the opposite of what I do.

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Speaker 5: I like to wake up every day not knowing what's

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Speaker 5: going to happen.

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Speaker 1: Well, I like to plan every day, but in the end,

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Speaker 1: every day turns out totally different because my well laid

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Speaker 1: plans get blown up by something that happens.

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Speaker 5: See, so what's the point of making plans.

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Speaker 1: I like to live in a superposition of organization and chaos.

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Speaker 1: So you're both or neither depends on which day you

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Speaker 1: collapse my wave function and on which day my schedule collapses.

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Speaker 5: Sounds like you're the one who collapses at the end

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Speaker 5: of the day, though.

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Speaker 1: That's how you know I'm a true quantum mechanic.

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Speaker 5: Hi. I am horeham and cartoonist and the co author

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Speaker 5: of Frequently Asked Questions about the Universe.

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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor

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Speaker 1: at UC Irvine, and I'm supposed to understand quantum mechanics.

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Speaker 5: You're supposed to that, I guess so because you're a physicist.

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Speaker 1: Right, that's right? It's my official job. Particles are definitely

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Speaker 1: quantum objects, and yet it's still something that everybody in

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Speaker 1: the field struggles with but didn't.

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Speaker 5: Richard Feineman famously said that nobody understands quantum mechanics, and

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Speaker 5: if you do, then you don't really understand it.

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Speaker 1: And he was one of the top five smartest physicists,

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Speaker 1: So yeah, everybody below him on the ranking can't understand

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Speaker 1: it better than he does.

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Speaker 5: With the top four, dude, I.

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Speaker 1: Think there are a few people out there that might

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Speaker 1: understand quantum mechanics and better than Richard Feynman. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Do you think it's maybe just the limitation of the

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Speaker 5: human brain or is quantum mechanics just not understandable.

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Speaker 1: I think we definitely can understand the mathematics of it,

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Speaker 1: but sometimes translating that mathematics into intuition is really complicated.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to understand things which are very unfamiliar to us,

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Speaker 1: because in the end, physics is about trying to explain

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Speaker 1: the unfamiliar in terms of the familiar. But sometimes we

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Speaker 1: don't have a good intuitive analog to reach for. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: we find something which really is very different from anything

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Speaker 1: we've experienced before.

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Speaker 5: That's why I don't believe in intuition either, schedules and intuitions.

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Speaker 5: I just leave him at home every day. But anyways,

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Speaker 5: welcome to our podcast Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe,

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Speaker 5: a production of iHeartRadio in which.

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Speaker 1: We attempt to apply our intuition to understanding everything about

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Speaker 1: the universe. For these little squishy brains that evolved on

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Speaker 1: this one rock around one planet. It's an incredible task

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Speaker 1: to try to understand everything that's out there, including phenomena

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Speaker 1: that our ancestors never saw, crazy black holes, incredibly dense

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Speaker 1: neutron stars, tiny buzzing particles. Is it even possible to

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Speaker 1: grop all of that, to import it somehow into our

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Speaker 1: minds so we can play with it, manipulate it, and

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Speaker 1: understand it.

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Speaker 5: That's right, because it is a vast and incredible universe

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Speaker 5: full of amazing things that run counter to our intuition

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Speaker 5: sometimes and that are very difficult to understand. And so

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Speaker 5: the only thing we can schedule on this podcast is

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Speaker 5: the idea that we're going to talk about it and

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Speaker 5: try to understand it and ask questions about it.

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Speaker 1: Because on the podcast, we try to do something which

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Speaker 1: may be impossible, which is to translate all of these ideas,

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Speaker 1: which in the end are expressed mathematically, into concepts that

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Speaker 1: we can deliver into your brain just with chitchat and conversation.

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Speaker 1: It's not always easy to know how to transform these

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Speaker 1: ideas from their essential mathematical principles into an intuitive understanding,

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Speaker 1: a stream of words which land in your ear and

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Speaker 1: build in your mind a little model that makes you go, oh,

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Speaker 1: I get it. But that's what we're going for.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a pretty challenging problem if you think about it, right,

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Speaker 5: because we're trying to take the entire universe, which is

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Speaker 5: at least four dimensions, maybe more, and we're trying to

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Speaker 5: get it down to really one dimension, right, because audio

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Speaker 5: is just one one degree of freedom.

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Speaker 1: Right, I suppose though, although in principle there are an

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Speaker 1: infinite number of frequencies along which to convey information. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a good point. We're trying to like serialize the

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Speaker 1: universe into a stream of information which unpacks itself into

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Speaker 1: your mind to give you a mental model of the

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Speaker 1: universe that somehow works.

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Speaker 5: I guess it would help if maybe we're recording stereo,

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Speaker 5: like I could be on people's left ear and you

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Speaker 5: could be on people's right ear, and then we could

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Speaker 5: maybe convey more information that way, like a little angel

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Speaker 5: and devil standing on your shoulders.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe we need two cartoonists and two physicists going simultaneously.

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Speaker 5: How does that help when we're all talking at the

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Speaker 5: same time.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, it'd be two dimensional podcasting simultaneously.

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Speaker 5: I feel like you'd still collapse right under the amount

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Speaker 5: of information. You're still collapsing the information down to one

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Speaker 5: dimensional audio.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think probably it's best to stick with one dimension

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Speaker 1: and do our best to project these crazy ideas down

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Speaker 1: into a one dimensional audio stream.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. It is a complex universe, and sometimes it's a

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Speaker 5: seemingly random universe. It's a huge universe and all kinds

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Speaker 5: of things are happening in it, and it's not quite

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Speaker 5: clear whether the things are happening according to a plan

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Speaker 5: or if they are just randomly occurring in the universe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the most fundamental questions about the nature

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Speaker 1: of the universe is whether you can predict what's going

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Speaker 1: to happen in the future based on the past. Is

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Speaker 1: the universe like a big clock, where if you understood

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Speaker 1: all of the rules and had enough information, you could

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Speaker 1: tell exactly what was going to happen? Or fundamentally, is

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Speaker 1: there something weird going on at the heart of the

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Speaker 1: machine that is running the universe, something different from anything

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Speaker 1: we have ever experienced directly, something truly random?

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Speaker 5: And well, I guess the universe seems pretty random, right,

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Speaker 5: Like if I flip a coin, it's really hard to

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Speaker 5: tell if it's going to be head or tails.

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Speaker 1: Right, it does, And we often use flipping a cold

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Speaker 1: or rolling a dice as an approximation for something random.

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Speaker 1: But those are not actually random processes. Those are just

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Speaker 1: very very complicated processes, things which are hard to predict,

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Speaker 1: but in principle possible to predict if you had enough

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Speaker 1: information and enough computer processing power.

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Speaker 5: What about whether we're going to explain something well or not?

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Speaker 5: Isn't that also kind of random?

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Speaker 1: Hey, sometimes what we talk about on the podcast feels

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Speaker 1: a little random. You know, I'll prepare a whole outline

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Speaker 1: and we'll never get past the first bit.

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Speaker 5: Wait, are you saying I'm the random filter here?

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Speaker 1: I'm saying that Danieljoorge interaction is a little unpredictable sometimes

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Speaker 1: what we end up talking about in the best possible way.

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Speaker 1: I love those episodes when you're like, hold on a second,

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Speaker 1: slow down, what does that actually mean? And then we

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Speaker 1: spend forty five minutes talking about the definition.

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Speaker 5: We maybe just need like a parallel podcast or something.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we need the multi World's podcast, where we take

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Speaker 1: every possible branch and every possible digression simultaneously.

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Speaker 5: Well, this idea of whether the universe is random or

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Speaker 5: not was something that sort of came up recently in

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Speaker 5: the last one hundred or two hundred years, right, I mean,

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Speaker 5: after Newton, people figured that the universe was pretty mechanical,

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Speaker 5: pretty much like a machine, where everything followed F EQUALSMA,

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Speaker 5: and you could predict what the path of a baseball

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Speaker 5: or dropping a coin, what was going to happen. You

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Speaker 5: could predict that. But then came quantum mechanics, who said, well,

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Speaker 5: maybe things are not that predictable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and both of those really are revolutions in our

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Speaker 1: understanding of how the universe works. I mean, before quantum mechanics,

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Speaker 1: even just the idea that the universe was deterministic, that

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Speaker 1: it was like clockwork, that the whole apparatus of reality

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Speaker 1: was somehow following physical laws which you could uncover and

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Speaker 1: understand and use to predict the future. This was a

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Speaker 1: big idea. Right. This flew in the face of lots

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Speaker 1: of people's sort of spiritual sense that there was somebody

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Speaker 1: out there, unpredictable, in control of the universe. To reduce

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Speaker 1: it to a set of natural laws which governed it,

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Speaker 1: that was a big step forward. And so then to

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Speaker 1: pull the rug out from underneath that and say, actually, no,

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Speaker 1: at the heart of all of it might be something unpredictable,

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Speaker 1: some process which determines the outcome but isn't determined by

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Speaker 1: the past, is somehow fundamentally random. That was a crazy,

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Speaker 1: big new idea.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess it was a double sweeping of the rug. Right,

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Speaker 5: because before Newton, I guess, and before these fundamental laws

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Speaker 5: of the universe, people kind of thought the universe was random. Right,

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Speaker 5: It was random, or at least at the whim of

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Speaker 5: some gods or some deity that sort of randomly decided things.

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Speaker 5: And then we thought it was all ordered, and then realized, wait,

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Speaker 5: it is sort of random.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, though random in a very very different way. Right.

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Speaker 1: Quantum mechanical randomness, as we'll dig into, is not arbitrary

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Speaker 1: or at the whims of some god.

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Speaker 5: Right, do you know, Daniel, you know we might be at.

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Speaker 1: The whims of the writers of the simulation, but whatever

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Speaker 1: code they wrote is what determines how the universe seems

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Speaker 1: to work.

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Speaker 5: What if that code is that the whim of some

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Speaker 5: other writers.

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Speaker 1: Well, maybe it is, but they don't seem to have

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Speaker 1: been changing the code recently. It seems like the code

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Speaker 1: is pretty stable over the fourteen billion years of the

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Speaker 1: universe's history. So there haven't been any dates.

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Speaker 5: Well, it seems that we've done a double take here

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Speaker 5: on the randomness of the universe, and the latest is

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Speaker 5: that according to quantum mechanics, things are random. But is

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Speaker 5: that really true? And so to be on the podcast,

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Speaker 5: we'll be tackling the question how do we know quantum

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Speaker 5: mechanics is really random as opposed to just plain wacky

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Speaker 5: or flaky or at the whim of some quantum mechanical gods.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, quantum mechanics has probabilities in it, and

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Speaker 1: you can talk about what probabilities mean. Sometimes probability just

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Speaker 1: means our lack of information things we don't know but

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Speaker 1: in principle could predict. And sometimes probability means fundamentally random,

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Speaker 1: governed by our process outside of our control. If you're

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Speaker 1: going to bet on the outcome of a roulette wheel spin,

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Speaker 1: for example, you might think that's random, And in principle,

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Speaker 1: if you knew how the ball bounced and you spun

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Speaker 1: it the same way twice, you should get exactly the

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Speaker 1: same answer. So it's not really random. The probabilities there

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Speaker 1: come from your lack of understanding. The question really is

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Speaker 1: is quantum mechanics the same way. Are there details which

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Speaker 1: actually do determine the outcome of these experiments, which is

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Speaker 1: not aware of them? Or is the universe really actually

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Speaker 1: at its core a random number generator.

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Speaker 5: You're asking is it really random or does it just

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Speaker 5: seem random? Because something can seem random, right, Like I

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Speaker 5: can have a computer code that spits out random numbers

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Speaker 5: which will look pretty random to anyone, but actually there's

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Speaker 5: sort of hard coded on the computer.

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Speaker 1: Right exactly. Random number generators follow a sequence, our computers

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Speaker 1: follow rules. They can't actually generate random numbers. They can

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Speaker 1: only have pseudo random number sequences that sort of look RANDOMI.

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Speaker 5: Ish, right, And so we're asking the same question about

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Speaker 5: the entire universe. Is the universe actually random at its core?

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Speaker 5: Or does it just seem random? And I guess we

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Speaker 5: need to go to quantum mechanics to find the answer.

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Speaker 1: And we've been talking around this topic in a few

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Speaker 1: recent episodes, and listeners have responded and asked us to

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Speaker 1: dig into the heart of the matter.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and as you should. We were wondering how many

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Speaker 5: people out there I thought about whether quantum mechanics really

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Speaker 5: is random or not.

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Speaker 1: So thanks to everybody who answered these questions for us.

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Speaker 1: It gives us a great sense for what people know

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Speaker 1: and what they're wondering about, and what you might be

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Speaker 1: thinking out there. And if you would like to lend

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Speaker 1: your voice for a future episode, please don't be shy.

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Speaker 1: Write to us two questions at Danielandjorge dot com.

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Speaker 5: So think about it for a second. Do you think

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Speaker 5: quantum mechanics really is random? Here's what people had to say.

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Speaker 7: Actually, I think that's what Einstein thought. He thought there

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Speaker 7: was some hidden variables that controlled all the processes, and

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Speaker 7: we didn't know about that, and that's why we thought

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Speaker 7: it was random. But I think there have been many

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Speaker 7: experiments where they would beat the same thing over and

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Speaker 7: over but in the same conditions, but as a different

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Speaker 7: result each time, and that's how we know that it

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Speaker 7: is truly random.

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Speaker 1: Is is such a question.

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Speaker 6: We do experiments thousands and thousands of times so that

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Speaker 6: we can get probability curves that show randomness.

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Speaker 1: You would only know to.

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Speaker 6: A certain amount of certainty based on how many experiments

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Speaker 6: you do, and you can't do an infinite number of experiments.

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Speaker 6: So maybe we don't know that it's random, but it's

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Speaker 6: just random enough for purposes.

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Speaker 8: Well, if it's not random, I guess scientists would have

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Speaker 8: figured out how it's really working, and we would have

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Speaker 8: really cool quantum computers by now. We may not know

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Speaker 8: it as an absolute fact, but our models really suggest

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Speaker 8: it is random. Through many experiments and theories. That model

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Speaker 8: of randomness holds out really, really well. And that's about

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Speaker 8: as good as we can get. If the model fits,

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Speaker 8: we accept it.

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Speaker 9: I am a big fan of the idea that there's

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Speaker 9: a hidden variable that we don't understand, But at the

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Speaker 9: same time I realize that all the evidence says that

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Speaker 9: it's really really random. There's that whole thing where you

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Speaker 9: send electrons through a slit experiment, one electron at a time,

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Speaker 9: and they still interfere because as I've heard you guys say,

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Speaker 9: it's a field, not a point. But I don't really

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Speaker 9: understand that. As a computer programmer, I know that quantum

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Speaker 9: is the gold standard for truly random numbers, But I

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Speaker 9: guess I really don't understand that at all.

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Speaker 10: If you set up an experiment, well so they call

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Speaker 10: it an ensemble, If you set up multiple instances of

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Speaker 10: that experiment and everything is the same, and you produce

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Speaker 10: the electron, say you I don't know, fire it in

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Speaker 10: a given direction, and then well, since you know its

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Speaker 10: position or the trajectory it's taking, if you then try

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Speaker 10: to measure its momentum while it's moving, even though the

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Speaker 10: experiments are set up in exactly the same way, you

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Speaker 10: get different answers for the momentum, and it doesn't depend

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Speaker 10: on how you've set up the experiment, because the ensembles

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Speaker 10: are exactly the same and there is no sort of

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Speaker 10: external factor that you can change that somehow correlates with

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Speaker 10: the measured momentum. And that's why we say quantum mechanics

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Speaker 10: is random.

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Speaker 11: I guess you could set up the same experiment many

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Speaker 11: many times, and if you get different outcomes with a

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Speaker 11: sort of random distribution, you would know that it's very random.

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Speaker 11: Otherwise I have no idea.

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Speaker 5: Interesting. I feel like some people don't want to know

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Speaker 5: kind of.

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Speaker 1: It is really hard to accept this idea that the

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Speaker 1: universe is so different from the one you experience, so

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people resist it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And do you think quantum mechanics is random or

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Speaker 5: maybe it was just discovered randomly?

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Speaker 1: It does seem like the history of science is a

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Speaker 1: little bit random, you know, especially in the case of

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Speaker 1: quantum mechanics, because we had a few experiments that people

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Speaker 1: had done and nobody really understood, and then Einstein and

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Speaker 1: Plank came along and sort of put the pieces together

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Speaker 1: years later. Makes you wonder if it could have happened sooner,

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Speaker 1: or maybe if it could have happened decades later. It's

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Speaker 1: fun to think about alternative histories and what we might

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Speaker 1: have discovered.

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Speaker 5: Or not at all, Right, Like what if Einstein had

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Speaker 5: decided that he wanted to play soccer for a living,

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Speaker 5: maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. Usually

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Speaker 5: can't say that about historical figures, but Eisin is one

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Speaker 5: of those figures where if he hadn't come along at

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Speaker 5: the moment he did, things would be super different.

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Speaker 1: Things might be different. There are people who say that

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Speaker 1: a lot of the precursors to his ideas came from

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Speaker 1: other people, and so it was sort of inevitable for

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Speaker 1: them to click together. You know, a lot of the

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Speaker 1: math that underpins relativity was developed by other folks. Remond,

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Speaker 1: for example, developed the Remanni and manifold, which Einstein realized

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Speaker 1: was a great way to describe the curvature of space.

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Speaker 1: Other folks were working on similar ideas and may have

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Speaker 1: brought it together even without Einstein, though it could have

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Speaker 1: taken a few years or decades longer.

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Speaker 5: Well, Eisin did what he did. And here we are

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Speaker 5: talking about quantum mechanics and randomness and whether or not

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Speaker 5: it is actually random at its core. And so I guess, Daniel,

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Speaker 5: let's start with the basics here. Well, first of all,

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Speaker 5: what do we mean by the word random?

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Speaker 1: So by random we really mean something which is not

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Speaker 1: determined by the experimental setup. You build an experiment to

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Speaker 1: shoot a ball, or to flip a coin, or to

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Speaker 1: roll a dice or whatever. If it really is random,

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Speaker 1: then you can do the same experiment twice and get

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Speaker 1: different outcomes.

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Speaker 5: Right like, For example, a computer random number generator is

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Speaker 5: not really random because it uses a computer formula. Right

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Speaker 5: like that one works by taking a look at the

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Speaker 5: current time, grabbing a bunch of different variables that are

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Speaker 5: changing all the time, and then it processes those and

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Speaker 5: then it spits out what seems like a random number,

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Speaker 5: but it's not really random because you need what all

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Speaker 5: the numbers that went into the random number generator. You

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Speaker 5: could generate the exact same sequence, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And we do that all the time. You have

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Speaker 1: random number seeds for example. These are the parameters that

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Speaker 1: control the random number generation. And if you give a

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Speaker 1: computer the same seeds, it will generate the same sequence

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Speaker 1: of random numbers every time. So computer random number generators

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Speaker 1: are deterministic. They can be predicted from their inputs and reproduced.

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Speaker 1: You run the same random number generator with the same inputs,

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Speaker 1: you get exactly the same outputs. So that's deterministic. That's

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Speaker 1: not random. But they are chaotic. They are hard to predict.

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Speaker 1: They're designed to be complicated the way for example, a

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Speaker 1: die is designed to be unpredictable. It has all these

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Speaker 1: sharp edges which bounce unpredictably against surfaces and makes it

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Speaker 1: really tricky to know if a two or a four

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Speaker 1: is going to land upright. It's very sensitive to exactly

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Speaker 1: how you throw it, which makes it hard to predict

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Speaker 1: and appear random but not actually be random.

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Speaker 5: Right, because a die with sharp edges sort of like

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Speaker 5: if you stand it on one corner, I guess it

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Speaker 5: might fall to the rider, or it might fall to

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Speaker 5: the left, or it might bounce to the rider left.

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Speaker 5: Just like a coin. If you stand it up on

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Speaker 5: its side, it could maybe flip or land and either way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, imagine trying to learn, for example, how to flip

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Speaker 1: a coin so that it always comes up heads, And

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Speaker 1: principle you could you could learn how to spin it

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Speaker 1: at just the right frequency and toss it at the

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Speaker 1: air just the right velocity so it has a certain

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Speaker 1: number of flips before it lands on your hand and

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Speaker 1: it's always going to come up heads. That would be

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Speaker 1: a great skill, right, But it's so hard to do

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Speaker 1: because it's so sensitive to all of those details. You'd

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Speaker 1: have to be a master coin flipper to be able

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Speaker 1: to do that same with a die. If somebody knew

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Speaker 1: how to roll sevens every single time, they would make

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Speaker 1: zillions of dollars at casinos every day. Right. The whole

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Speaker 1: game of craps is built on the assumption that nobody

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Speaker 1: can really control what happens to the die Even though

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Speaker 1: they give them to you, they let you roll them, right,

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Speaker 1: And so the whole assumption there is that you can't

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Speaker 1: reproduce the same toss over and over again.

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Speaker 5: And so why don't let you into casinos anymore? It

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Speaker 5: may they stop you at the door for us, they're like,

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Speaker 5: are you in Tonian physicists or a quantum mechanic bis,

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Speaker 5: maybe say quantum physicists. They'll let you in.

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Speaker 1: They'll let you in exactly because you've given up. You've

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Speaker 1: allowed the randomness to enter your.

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Speaker 5: Life, all right. So that's the kind of the difference

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Speaker 5: between random and not random. Random you can't predict given

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Speaker 5: the initial conditions, and not random you can't predict it

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Speaker 5: even if it is really hard. If you can't predict it,

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Speaker 5: then it's possible that you can't predict it, and so

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Speaker 5: it's not random.

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Speaker 1: And everything in your everyday experience is not random. Whether

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Speaker 1: you hit a green light, or whether you trip on

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Speaker 1: the steps, or whether that bird poops on your show

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Speaker 1: or whatever. These things can seem random, whether they're really

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Speaker 1: just complex, they're actually just chaotic. Even the weather, the

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Speaker 1: weather is not fundamentally quantum mechanically random, it's just difficult

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Speaker 1: to predict because it's so complicated. So in our experience,

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Speaker 1: everything that seems random is actually just deterministic and complicated.

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Speaker 5: Or at least I think you mean it's mostly deterministic

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Speaker 5: and chaotic, right, I mean, it's just saying that Newtonian

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Speaker 5: dynamics dominate our everyday lies. But there is still a

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Speaker 5: little bit of a quantum at its heart, right at

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Speaker 5: the microscopic level, right like as the coin hits the table,

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Speaker 5: there is some sort of maybe quantum interaction there. They

440
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,720
Speaker 5: could determine whether it flips to the right or to

441
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:39,120
Speaker 5: the left.

442
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,639
Speaker 1: Well, we do know that microscopically everything we experience is

443
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 1: made of quantum objects, and so if quantum mechanics is random,

444
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,200
Speaker 1: then you know, you might ask why aren't things made

445
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,359
Speaker 1: of quantum objects also random. The answer is that that

446
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,199
Speaker 1: randomness mostly averages out. And so if an electron is

447
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: going to like quantum mechanically fluctuate to the left, somewhere

448
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 1: there's an electron quantu mechanically fluctuating to the right. So

449
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 1: when you have big enough groups of quantum objects, these

450
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,960
Speaker 1: things tend to wash out. It's very difficult to actually

451
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:13,119
Speaker 1: pinpoint quantum mechanical impacts on every day macroscopic classical objects.

452
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 1: Otherwise we would discover quantum mechanics sooner. You know, it

453
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,640
Speaker 1: would have been more obvious if there were quantum mechanical

454
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,160
Speaker 1: impacts on our everyday life.

455
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,199
Speaker 5: Right, But you just sounded a little bit absolute. But

456
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 5: then you said you mostly wash this out right, not

457
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,159
Speaker 5: completely right. There is still a little bit of tiny,

458
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,120
Speaker 5: little bit of maybe quantum randomness in our everyday lives too.

459
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a little bit there. Right in the end.

460
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 1: These things are averages, so there are probabilities you could

461
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,920
Speaker 1: in principle disappear and quantum tunnel to the other side

462
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 1: of your house. Right, It's not impossible. That's why you

463
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: should never say things absolutely. Also, this is not something

464
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 1: that we one hundred percent understand, Right, How do quantum

465
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 1: mechanical objects when they're all tiny, the huge frothing mass

466
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: of them, how do they come together to make the

467
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 1: classical picture that we understand. That boundary is kind of

468
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: fuzzy and not super well understood. So there might be

469
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 1: places where quantum effects really do have sort of like

470
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: cascading consequences which lead to macroscopic effects, like the heart

471
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,360
Speaker 1: of the human brain, Are there quantum effects inside your

472
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: neurons which change the decisions that you make. We don't

473
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 1: really understand that in enough detail to be absolutist about it.

474
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 5: Right, But I think what you're saying that then, is

475
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 5: that in our everyday lives things are mostly deterministic because

476
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,919
Speaker 5: all the quantum mechanics sort of mostly washes off. But

477
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 5: although there's still a little bit of room there for

478
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 5: things to be random, but they're not as random as

479
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 5: they are at the microscopic level. If you're looking at

480
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 5: like one electron, that as a huge randomness factor whether

481
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 5: it goes right.

482
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 1: Or left exactly. We think that at the microscopic level,

483
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: quantum mechanics might be really truly random, although there are

484
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: a lot of different interpretations for these weird experiments that

485
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 1: we're going to dig into, these bells experiment with entangled particles.

486
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 5: Right, So, even at the microscopic level, you can ask

487
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 5: the question if an electron is actually actually random or

488
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 5: whether it just seems random. Right, that's the question we're

489
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 5: asking today.

490
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,719
Speaker 1: That's the one at the heart of the matter. If

491
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 1: the tiniest little bits in the universe can be predicted,

492
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: if you have not all the information, or if the

493
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: universe is like rolling a truly random die every time

494
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,719
Speaker 1: an electron has to decide where it's going to go.

495
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 5: All right, well, let's dig into whether or not the

496
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 5: universe is random at the microscopic level or not, and

497
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 5: how we could maybe tell the difference using a famous experiment. First,

498
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 5: let's take a quick break.

499
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,199
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549
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550
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553
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555
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558
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563
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566
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567
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Speaker 5: All right, we're asking the question whether the universe really

568
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 5: is random, and whether or not Daniel can plan his

569
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 5: day with any certainty at all, or is it all

570
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 5: a futile exercise. He just give up like I.

571
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 1: Do, just embrace the chaos.

572
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 5: Yeah No, I embrace the randomness. It's different than cale.

573
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 5: Well, well you should embrace both.

574
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: I guess just let whatever happens happen.

575
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 5: Yeah, So there's a famous way to tell whether or

576
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 5: not electrons and things at the microscopic level are truly random,

577
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 5: or whether or not they just seem random. Right, And

578
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 5: this is the idea of Bell's experiment.

579
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: And it goes actually back to Einstein again. Einstein, though

580
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: he had some of the foundational ideas that led us

581
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,959
Speaker 1: to develop quantum mechanics, he was fundamentally uncomfortable with the

582
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: idea that the universe was truly random. He thought that

583
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: perhaps there were just details there that we were not understanding,

584
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,719
Speaker 1: that when things seemed random, it was just because there

585
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: was missing information that we didn't have that was actually

586
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: controlling the outcome of the experiments. So he and a

587
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: couple of mondies of his came up with a thought experiment,

588
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 1: because he was like champion of thought experiments, to demonstrate

589
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: how weird it would be if quantum mechanics was really random.

590
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think it al sort of goes back

591
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 5: to this picture one electron, right, Like, if you shoot

592
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 5: an electron towards a magnet, it has kind of a random,

593
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 5: equal probability of swerving to the right as it does

594
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 5: swerving to the left right. That's kind of the fundamental

595
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 5: random experiment that people picture when they picture quantum mechanics. Right,

596
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 5: it's like it has a half a probability to go right,

597
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 5: half a probability to go left, and it's totally randomly.

598
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 5: There's no way you could maybe predict whether it was

599
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 5: going to go right or left.

600
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, And just to clarify, electrons always go the same

601
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: direction when they hit like a big macroscopic magnet, because

602
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,239
Speaker 1: magnetic feels turn electrons in a way that we understand it.

603
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: But electrons also have another quantum mechanical component, the spin,

604
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: which affects their little magnetic field, and so that can

605
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: affect whether they go like left or right when they

606
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: hit like a weird magnetic field. And so you're right.

607
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: Quantum mechanics says it's an equal probability for it to

608
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: be spin up or spin down, which means that it

609
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: goes left or it goes right, And it says that

610
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: that's not actually determined until somebody measures it, that both

611
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: possibilities are live simultaneously until you actually measure it. Whereas

612
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: the other view says no, no, no, there's some detail

613
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: that determines whether it's spin up or spin down, whether

614
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: it's going to go left or right, and it goes

615
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,479
Speaker 1: left or it goes right the whole time until you

616
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: look at it right.

617
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 5: That's the idea of the hidden viable, right, Like maybe

618
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 5: the electron at its core knows whether it's spinning up

619
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 5: or spinning down. It's just that we don't know. And

620
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 5: so that's why you call it a hidden viariable. And

621
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 5: so the question is does the electron actually know if

622
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 5: it's spinning up or down? Or does even the electron

623
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 5: not know what's going to happen until somebody comes in

624
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 5: and ascid or pokes it.

625
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you might imagine it's impossible to tell the difference,

626
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: Like how can you know if it's actually determined but

627
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: you not aware of it, or if it's chosen at

628
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: the time you poke it, because before that nobody's poking it,

629
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: So how can you tell? So Einstein's big idea was

630
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: to add another electron, which you say, well, what if

631
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,719
Speaker 1: you have two of these things and you know something

632
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: about the pair of them, you know that they have

633
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: to have opposite spins. Maybe they come from the same source,

634
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: so they're constrained somehow. There's a connection between them so

635
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: that if one of them is spin up, the other

636
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: one has to be spinned down. This is the idea

637
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: of quantum entanglement, and it's not so hard to understand

638
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: the general idea. Say, for example, you have two bags,

639
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: one with a red ball, one with a blue ball

640
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: in it, and you and your friend each take one bag,

641
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,959
Speaker 1: but you don't know which is which, and you travel

642
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: like ten miles apart. Now you look at the bag

643
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: and you say, oh, I have the blue ball. That

644
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: means my friend has the red ball. Or if your

645
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: friend has the blue ball, that means you have the

646
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,959
Speaker 1: red ball. Because you know there's only one blue ball,

647
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: then you know something about what's happening with the other particle.

648
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: So that's the idea of entanglement, connecting these two electrons together.

649
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 5: Right, Because when you separate the balls in the bags,

650
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 5: you take one this way and take the other one

651
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 5: that way. They have something that ties their history together, right,

652
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 5: some sort of constraint that says if one is blue,

653
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 5: the olin spread and if this one is red, the

654
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 5: owen has to be blue. Right, it's something that ties

655
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 5: their histories together exactly.

656
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: And Einstein's point was, if things really aren't determined until

657
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: you look, that means something really weird. That means that

658
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: the electrons, which are now five miles apart from each other,

659
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: if you measure one of them and it determines to

660
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: be spin up. If you're saying that they really weren't

661
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: determined until you're measured, that means that the other electron,

662
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: now ten miles apart, instantaneously goes from undetermined to spin

663
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: down without anybody even looking at it. So this was

664
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: Einstein's complaint that if quantum mechanics really was random, then

665
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: it was somehow non local. This somehow instantaneous collapse of

666
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: the distant electron the other one, the one you weren't

667
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: even looking at.

668
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, you mentioned the idea of local, because that's

669
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 5: kind of a big part of it, Right, Like if

670
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 5: I take one of the balls and I go to

671
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 5: New Mexico and you stay in Los Angeles, and I

672
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 5: open my ball and I know and I see that

673
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 5: it's red, then I know that your ball is blue,

674
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 5: but you don't know that I opened my bag and

675
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 5: found a red ball right to you. It's still totally

676
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 5: unpredictable what's in your bag Unless I go and I

677
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 5: call you, or I send you an email saying, hey,

678
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 5: my ball was a certain color, then you would know

679
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 5: what color your ball is exactly.

680
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: But according to quantum mechanics, it is at that point determined.

681
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: Once you've measured yours to be red, then mine is blue.

682
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: So Einstein's big point here was to say, this is ridiculous,

683
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: This idea that quantum mechanics is random, that there aren't

684
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: details determining which one is spin up and which one

685
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: is spinned down, requires them to somehow conspire across great

686
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: distances faster than the speed of light. So we said,

687
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: obviously this can't be true, But.

688
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 5: It turned out that it is true. I feel like

689
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 5: you were leading me to that, but I don't really know.

690
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: That's what Einstein wanted everybody to think. But again you

691
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: can ask the question, how can you know? Maybe quantum

692
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: mechanics really is just weird that way and it doesn't

693
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: sit well in Einstein's brain, doesn't mean it isn't reality.

694
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: Is there some way we can enhance this experiment so

695
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: we can tell the difference, We can tell if it

696
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: really is random? And decided at the last minute before

697
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: you measure it, or if it's all somehow decided in

698
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 1: advance using information. We just don't have access to some

699
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: sort of weird hidden details about these particles that determine

700
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: which one is spin up or spin down. So that

701
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: was the great challenge. Is there a way to calm

702
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: up with an experiment to tell the difference?

703
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 5: Right? And you're saying that as soon as I opened

704
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 5: my bag in New Mexico and I see that my

705
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 5: ball is red, suddenly your ball goes from being a

706
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 5: quantum mechanical object that could be anything to a non

707
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 5: quantum mechanical object which can only be blue. That's the

708
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 5: weird thing that kind of freaked Einstein out. As soon

709
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 5: as I opened my bag in New Mexico, somehow your

710
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 5: bag in Los Angeles starts being quantum mechanical instantaneously.

711
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 1: Yeah. So people were chewing on this problem, and one

712
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: other very smart guy who might understand quantum mechanics better

713
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: than Richard Feinman, he came up with a really ingenious

714
00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: idea for how to tell the difference, For how to

715
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,800
Speaker 1: I know if quantum mechanics was doing this at the

716
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: last minute, if it was really was left undecided and

717
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: truly randomly collapsed at the last moment, or if it

718
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: was determined by some information we just didn't have access to.

719
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 1: He actually came up with a way to test that,

720
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: to build an experiment which would tell you what the

721
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: universe was doing.

722
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 5: Well, what's the alternative then, in the case of the

723
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 5: two balls, the one in New Mexico and the one

724
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 5: in Los Angeles, Like, if Einstein's right, then what actually

725
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 5: happened to the balls? You actually knew which one was

726
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 5: red and blew the whole time.

727
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, if Einstein's right, then one was red and one

728
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: was blue the whole time. We don't have access to

729
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,839
Speaker 1: the information. We didn't know that until we opened it up.

730
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: But it actually was read the whole time. And if

731
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: quantum mechanics is right, then it wasn't read. It was

732
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 1: a possibility of being read and a possibility of being blue.

733
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 5: Right in the quantum chemical view, both were possibilities until

734
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:51,919
Speaker 5: I opened mind in New Mexico, and in which case

735
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 5: both became non possibilities.

736
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: Exactly, And if Einstein was right, you get what he

737
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: calls realism. He says, the universe is a certain way

738
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: even if you aren't looking at it. There is a

739
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: fact of the matter, and the ball is blue or

740
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: is red regardless of whether we know it or not.

741
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,439
Speaker 1: That's what Einstein believed. But the typical description of quantum

742
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: mechanics says that it really is undetermined, and there's a

743
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: random process that chooses it at the last moment, just

744
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: before you measure it, or as you measure it, or

745
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: the act of you measuring it collapses it and forces

746
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: the universe to access its true random number generator.

747
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 5: And I think maybe Einstein's point is that it's hard

748
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 5: to tell the difference between those two scenarios, whether they

749
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 5: were red and blue the whole time or whether they

750
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 5: decided only when I opened mind in New Mexico, because

751
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 5: there's no way to tell a difference, which is that

752
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 5: simple experiment. So you need to sort of do an

753
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 5: experiment two point zero that maybe messes with that to

754
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 5: see if actually things were random or not.

755
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And that was Bell's big idea. Bell came

756
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: up with a way to test this, and at first, blush,

757
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 1: it feels impossible, right, like, how could you tell whether

758
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: it's undetermined when you don't look without looking, and by

759
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 1: looking you collapse it, so it seems so like a paradox,

760
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: like impossible to probe. Bell's big idea was taking advantage

761
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 1: of another aspect of quantum mechanics that didn't exist in

762
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 1: the hidden variables picture. And that's the fact that it

763
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: matters along which direction you're measuring the spin. So we're

764
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: talking about a quantum mechanical property of these electrons. It's

765
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: called spin. They can be spin up or spin down.

766
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 1: But it can be spin up or spin down along

767
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: with some direction. Right, if you have like an axis

768
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: you're defining as X, you could say, is my electron

769
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: spin up or spin down along this axis? You can

770
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: also measured along Y or measured along Z. Fascinating thing

771
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: quantum mechanically is that these things are connected. Like in

772
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: quantum mechanics, you can't know the spin in X and

773
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: in y and in z simultaneously. They're all weirdly entangled

774
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: by the Heisenberg un certainty principle, the same way that

775
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: like you can't know the position and momentum of an

776
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 1: object at the same time, those two pieces of information

777
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: are weirdly connected together. So Bell came up with this

778
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: experiment where people in different locations might use different axes.

779
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,280
Speaker 1: They might be measuring spin in different directions, and quantum

780
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 1: mechanics would make a different prediction for the correlations between

781
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 1: those measurements than the hidden variable theory would.

782
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, let me levely go back a little bit on

783
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 5: this idea of spin, because this is one I think

784
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 5: it's going to be hard to explain over audio. I

785
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 5: think maybe a way to picture it is that you know,

786
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 5: instead of a red and a blue ball that we

787
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 5: put in our in those hidden bags, instead of draw

788
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 5: an arrow on our balls, like an arrow pointing up

789
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 5: or an arrow pointing down right, or I guess the

790
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 5: arrow could be pointing in any direction. Really in the

791
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,879
Speaker 5: ball right, it could be pointing up, down, left, right, diagonal,

792
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 5: diagonal down, diagonal up, So it can be pointing in

793
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 5: any of those directions. But one thing about quantum mechanics

794
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 5: is that you can't ask whether it's pointing up and

795
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 5: down and left and right at the same time. That's

796
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 5: a weird thing about quantum mechanics, right.

797
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 1: The weird thing about quantum mechanics there is that it

798
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 1: matters the order in which you do it. Just like

799
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: if you measure position, you get a number and then

800
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: you measure momentum, then your position measurement is no longer valid.

801
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: Once you measure momentum, you scramble the position the same

802
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,280
Speaker 1: way here, if you measure the spin along one axis,

803
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: you look to see if the arrow is pointing up

804
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 1: or down according to your imaginary Z axis, and then

805
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 1: you do it along y or x. It scrambles the

806
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: first measurement, so you can't know the spin in all

807
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: three directions simultaneously for a quantum object the way you

808
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 1: can for a ball. Right, a ball, you can just

809
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: look at it and say, oh, it's kind of up

810
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 1: and Z and kind of down and X and kind

811
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: of whatever. You can just know it. It's determined as possible.

812
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: These are sort of like orthogonal directions in the hidden

813
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: variable theory. The quantum mechanics that are weirdly connected to

814
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: each other is like less information available. There's like shared

815
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,280
Speaker 1: information between x, y, and z and the spin measurements.

816
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 5: Right, Let's maybe explain it like, let's say I point

817
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 5: an arrow on the face of my ball, and it

818
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 5: can be up, down, left, fright, the diagonal whatever. Maybe

819
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 5: you can picture it as like the hour hand in

820
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 5: a clock, so it can be pointing up at twelve o'clock,

821
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 5: or down at six o'clock, or right at three o'clock

822
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,720
Speaker 5: or left at nine o'clock, or it could put pointing

823
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 5: at one o'clock, four o'clock, eight o'clock, ten o'clock. And

824
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 5: you can only sort of ask one thing at a time,

825
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 5: whether it's generally pointing up or down, or left or right,

826
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 5: not both at the same time. So like, if it's

827
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 5: actually pointing at two o'clock, I can ask, well, is

828
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 5: it pointing up or down? And you'd say, well, it's

829
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 5: at two o'clock, so it's pointing up. Or I can

830
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 5: ask is the pointing left right? And you would say, oh,

831
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 5: it's pointing right because it's pointing at two o'clock. But

832
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,399
Speaker 5: I can't ask both of them at the same time

833
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 5: to really figure out what the hour was like. Once

834
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 5: you ask whether it's up or down, the whole thing

835
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 5: collapses and that's it. I can't know anything else about it.

836
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, once you make a measurement, all your previous measurements

837
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: are now irrelevant, so you can't like zero in on

838
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: the exact details.

839
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 5: Right, Like you would maybe set your hour clock at

840
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 5: a point in your clock right, and then I would

841
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 5: ask you is it up or down? And you would

842
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 5: say up. And now I can't ask you whether it

843
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,240
Speaker 5: was right or left because that would tell me exactly

844
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 5: where the hand was kind of right.

845
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: Remember that there might not be any where it really was.

846
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,720
Speaker 1: In the theory of local realism, there is a true position,

847
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 1: a total reality, and a clock really is point it

848
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 1: in just one direction. But in the quantum theory without

849
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: hidden variables, measuring it along one direction scrambles it in

850
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: the other directions, so they're not just not known, they

851
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: are not determined. And that's really the issue we want

852
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: to address. The question we want to answer can we

853
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 1: tell if those measurements are undetermined or unknown? And the

854
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: fact that in quantum mechanics you can't know more than

855
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 1: one direction of spin at once is the crucial concept

856
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: in Bell's theory because it changes how measurements in different

857
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: directions are correlated measurements along different axis. And this is

858
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: the exact idea at the heart of Bell's experiment. Bell says,

859
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: let's take our balls and let's pick three directions in advance,

860
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: and the people who are doing these measurements, they're going

861
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: to pick one of these three directions to make their measurement.

862
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 1: As you say, it's like picking two o'clock or nine

863
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: o'clock or six o'clock on the clock right to make

864
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 1: your measurement, to ask whether the arrow is up or down,

865
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: they're going to pick one of those, And if things

866
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: really are determined, then the direction they pick doesn't matter,

867
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: doesn't change the state of the ball at all. So

868
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,320
Speaker 1: it's a very simple relationship between whether or not they're

869
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 1: likely to see the same answer. You know, if they

870
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 1: both pick twelve o'clock, they're going to see the same answer.

871
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 1: One of them picks twelve and the other one picks

872
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: two o'clock, they're almost always going to see the same answer.

873
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: This kind of stuff. So you can say, if things

874
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 1: aren't messed up in that wave measuring one direction doesn't

875
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 1: measure the other directions, then we understand exactly how often

876
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: people should get the same answer. But in the quantum

877
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: mechanics version, if these things are scrambled, if measuring one

878
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: direction messes up the measurements in the other directions, you

879
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 1: get a different relationship to people with the two balls

880
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: or the two electrons get the same answer sort of

881
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: more often than you would expect. If things really are

882
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: determined by hidden variables. These correlations between the different directions

883
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 1: quantum mechanically come into play and sort of mess up

884
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: the otherwise perfect picture, right.

885
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 5: I think you're saying that like in our original experiment

886
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 5: where we had the tool balls in Los Angeles and

887
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 5: I took one of the balls to New Mexico. Now

888
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 5: we're going to introduce something new to Issen's experiment in

889
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 5: order to test this quantum, and that is to put

890
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 5: people in between Los Angeles and New Mexico and have

891
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 5: them ask questions about the ball on the way as

892
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 5: it's traveling from Los Angeles to New Mexico. Right, And

893
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,320
Speaker 5: somehow that's going to tell you whether or not things

894
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 5: are actually random or not.

895
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 1: You measure each ball one time, because once you've measured it,

896
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: there's no more entanglement with the other ball going in

897
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: the other direction, and you don't necessarily measure each ball

898
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: along the same spin axis. Each ball gets measured along

899
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: one of three directions. You can make the three directions

900
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 1: like a Mercedes symbol if you want, Both balls might

901
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: get measured along the same direction, which case one is

902
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 1: up and one and down. That happens a third of

903
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 1: the time, but two thirds of the time, you don't

904
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,879
Speaker 1: choose the same axes and bells inequalities all about how

905
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: often both balls get measured spin up or spin down

906
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: along the random axis that's chosen. For a hidden variable model,

907
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 1: you get the same answer from both balls less than

908
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 1: two thirds of the time. And so when you compare

909
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: the answers for one ball and the other, it just

910
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: depends on like what angle the ball actually was at.

911
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 5: Right. Maybe let's step people through that example in our

912
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 5: little scenario here of La versus New Mexico. So let's

913
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 5: say that things are not quantum mechanical and you actually

914
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 5: drew on your ball, you know, an arrow pointing at

915
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 5: one o'clock right now, the first person including to ass

916
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 5: is it generally pointing in the twelve o'clock direction, And

917
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 5: you would say yes, And when it arrives in New Mexico,

918
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 5: it's still going to be pointing at one o'clock like

919
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 5: you drew it right exactly.

920
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: You also have to have people asking the same questions

921
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: of the other ball and then comparing the answers. That's

922
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: the key to the experiment.

923
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 5: Okay, now, that's what it's going to happen. If the

924
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 5: universe is not random and if he has hidden variables, if

925
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 5: you actually drew the arrow on the ball before putting

926
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 5: it into the bag. But now let's paint the quantum

927
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 5: mechanical version where it's something. It's not really drawn on

928
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 5: the ball, it's just something. It just has the probability

929
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:52,720
Speaker 5: of being something.

930
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,760
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, so as a probability in any random direction.

931
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: And the only thing we know is that whatever direction

932
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 1: it's in, the other ball going to the other city

933
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 1: is pointing the other way. And so in the quantum

934
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 1: mechanical version, you can really only ask one question. You

935
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 1: can measure it along one direction. You can say, is

936
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 1: it pointing towards two o'clock or is it pointing towards

937
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,479
Speaker 1: eleven o'clock. Once you've done that, you've sort of messed

938
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: it up. You can't really get any more information about

939
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,720
Speaker 1: the ball. So you can make one measurement about your ball,

940
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:21,879
Speaker 1: and your friend going the other direction can make one

941
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 1: measurement about their ball. If you pick these three directions

942
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: in advance, then you can predict how often they will

943
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,760
Speaker 1: get the same answer. Like if both people say two o'clock,

944
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 1: then you know they're going to get opposite answers, right,

945
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: Because one ball is going to be up with respect

946
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:35,280
Speaker 1: to two o'clock. The other one's going to be down.

947
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 1: But if one person uses two o'clock and the other

948
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 1: person uses eleven am, then they might get different answers,

949
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,840
Speaker 1: And quantum mechanics tells you how likely they are to

950
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: get different answers.

951
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 5: Well, let's step people through it. What happens if it

952
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,280
Speaker 5: is a quantum mechanical ball that goes through and gets

953
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,760
Speaker 5: the question. So the first person says, is it generally

954
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 5: pointing towards twelve o'clock? And then that will sort of

955
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 5: collapse the ball a little bit, right. I think that's

956
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 5: what you're saying, is that now the ball cannot be

957
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,320
Speaker 5: pointing downwards If I say yes, if you say yes,

958
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 5: then the ball cannot be pointing downwards, So that if

959
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 5: the next person says, hey, is it pointing three o'clock,

960
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 5: they can't tell you. Right.

961
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: Well, what happens is you've destroyed the entanglement, so you

962
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 1: can make the measurement, but it's no longer constrained to

963
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 1: be the opposite of what the other ball is. And

964
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 1: the whole idea is that these things need to be entangled.

965
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 1: Once you've made a measurement, then the entanglement is broken.

966
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: You can only use up the entanglement sort of one time.

967
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 1: That's why you can only really make one interesting measurement.

968
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 1: You can make as many measurements as you like, but

969
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,280
Speaker 1: they're not really as interesting because you're no longer measuring

970
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: an entangled system. Right once you interact with something, you

971
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: break the entanglement.

972
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,240
Speaker 5: The wait, is that really a good analogy of Bell's

973
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:42,280
Speaker 5: theorem that somebody along the way asks if it's pointing

974
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 5: towards twelve o'clock.

975
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: Sort of if you take one more step. Bell's experiment says,

976
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:50,280
Speaker 1: pick three directions in advance. Everybody decides in those three directions.

977
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,839
Speaker 1: Then when you actually make your measurement, you pick one

978
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 1: of those three directions randomly. So you know, Jorge in

979
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: New Mexico is going to pick the two o'clock direction,

980
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 1: and Daniel in la Is maybe he's going to pick

981
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: the two o'clock direction. Maybe he's going to pick the

982
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: eleven o'clock. There's a random element there. If we pick

983
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: the same directions, we're going to get answers exactly opposite

984
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: each other. Of course, if we don't pick the same directions,

985
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 1: then we might get the same answers, we might not

986
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 1: and that's the part that's predicted by quantum mechanics.

987
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 5: Oh, I see, you don't ask it the three times

988
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,439
Speaker 5: when it's going from LA to New Mexico. You ask

989
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 5: it one time, like one of the three people ask

990
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 5: their question. That's what you're saying, and the person who

991
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 5: gets to ask the question is decided at random, exactly.

992
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,240
Speaker 1: And in the hidden variables version, you can very easily

993
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 1: calculate what are the chances that the one ball is

994
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 1: going to give you the same answer as the other ball,

995
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: And it's all determined, and so you can just do

996
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: the calculations. You get a very crisp number of prediction.

997
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: But quantum mechanics has more connections between these balls because

998
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: it says measurements in one direction are connected to measurements

999
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: in another direction, which doesn't exist for the hidden variables version.

1000
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 1: So it means you're more likely in the quantum mechanics

1001
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: to get the same answer as the other person. Bell's experiment,

1002
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: it's not a one off thing. You can't say from

1003
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 1: one experiment, Oh, definitely, it was random. It's a statistical calculation.

1004
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 1: Across many iterations of this experiment, you get a correlation

1005
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,760
Speaker 1: between these things, which should be impossible. In the hidden

1006
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,399
Speaker 1: variables version, your measurements agree more often than if all

1007
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 1: the details were specified in advance, and it's because of

1008
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: that quantum mechanical connection between measuring in different directions.

1009
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 5: All right, well, dig into this a little bit more,

1010
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 5: because I feel like maybe you're sort of waving your

1011
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 5: hand and saying there's a lot of complex math here

1012
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 5: that we can't understand on the podcast. But I wonder

1013
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 5: if there are sort of intuitive ways for us to

1014
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 5: figure out why they would give you different results if

1015
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 5: there was either was a hidden variable or not. Let's

1016
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 5: try to dig into that. But first, let's take another

1017
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:38,280
Speaker 5: quick break.

1018
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:43,959
Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth

1019
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt, you're probably

1020
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:51,280
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite.

1021
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,960
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1022
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:58,279
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1023
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1024
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste,

1025
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:07,239
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1026
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,319
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1027
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1028
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1029
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1030
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1032
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Speaker 1: you grab a slice of pizza or lick an ice

1033
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1034
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1035
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1038
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1050
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Speaker 5: All right, we're talking about Bells experiments, which, if it's true,

1060
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 5: confirms whether or not quantum mechanics really is random or

1061
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 5: we just think it's random, which would also firm whether

1062
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 5: the universe is random. And that's a pretty big deal, right.

1063
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 5: If the universe is random, then it's totally unpredictable. If

1064
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 5: the universe is not random, then everything that happens is

1065
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 5: kind of predetermined.

1066
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, Although to this day there are very strenuous philosophical

1067
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 1: arguments about what the results of Bell's experiment really mean.

1068
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 1: Is it actually ruling out local hidden variables. And one

1069
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 1: person who argued very strongly that these experiments don't rule

1070
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 1: out hidden variables was Bell. Bell was persuaded not that

1071
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 1: the universe was random, but just that the universe was

1072
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 1: non local, that it was somehow coordinating the results of

1073
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 1: these experiments across space and time in a way that

1074
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: we didn't understand.

1075
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 5: Well, we had this experiment set up where we had

1076
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 5: some balls and we drew arrows on them, or had

1077
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 5: them quantum mechanically drawn on the balls, and then we

1078
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 5: sent them to New Mexico and had people asking questions

1079
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:52,879
Speaker 5: along the way. But it seems sort of like you're

1080
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 5: saying that, really to understand how Bell's experiment works, we

1081
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 5: sort of really need to dig into the math, because

1082
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 5: that's where the difference is between a random universe and

1083
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 5: a non random universe really are Like, if it's really random,

1084
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 5: then the math says that you should get one type

1085
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 5: of result from this experiment, and if it's not random,

1086
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 5: then the math has you should get other kind of results.

1087
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does come down to the math, and there

1088
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: are lots of times in quantum mechanics where things don't

1089
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 1: make intuitive sense to us. But the math is pretty

1090
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 1: clear and it tells you exactly what's going to happen.

1091
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 1: And this is one of those scenarios where you're like, well,

1092
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 1: that would be really weird if that were true. The

1093
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 1: quantum mechanic predicts it to happen, and then you go

1094
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:30,399
Speaker 1: and you do it in the experiment, and it does.

1095
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 1: Like people have done these experiments starting in the seventies

1096
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 1: and up till fairly recently, more and more sophisticated versions

1097
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 1: of them, and the numbers they get agree with quantum mechanics,

1098
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:42,280
Speaker 1: they disagree with the local hidden variables picture of the universe.

1099
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 1: And what you want is to have a deep understanding

1100
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 1: of why that is. What is it about quantum mechanics

1101
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 1: that makes it have a different prediction, so that this

1102
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 1: experiment predicts something different for quantum mechanics and the hidden

1103
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 1: variables theory. And that's tricky. I mean, it's very clear

1104
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 1: if you just look at the math, like you write

1105
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: out the probabilities you do, the calculation comes out of

1106
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 1: certain value. But we don't all think mathematically, and so

1107
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 1: you want sometimes an intuitive understanding. And I think the

1108
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: most intuitive understanding I have of it at least is

1109
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: that quantum mechanics ties up these different measurements. If you're

1110
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 1: thinking about measurements in one direction, how they're connected to

1111
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 1: measurements in other directions. Then sort of in the hidden

1112
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 1: variables version, everything is clean and crisp and they don't

1113
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: mess up each other, whereas in the quantum mechanical version,

1114
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 1: make a measurement in one direction, it's more connected to

1115
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:27,720
Speaker 1: measurements in other directions. That's what gives you these enhanced

1116
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:29,280
Speaker 1: mathematical probabilities.

1117
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 5: All right, well, I think maybe the next question then

1118
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 5: should be have people actually done this experiment? I mean,

1119
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 5: we sort of talked about it, and we know that

1120
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,319
Speaker 5: if it comes out one way it sort of proves

1121
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 5: quantum mechanics is random or not. And have people actually

1122
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 5: done this experiment?

1123
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 1: They have. The first test was in nineteen seventy two,

1124
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 1: originally done with photons. You can do this kind of

1125
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: experiment with any sort of quantum object where you can

1126
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 1: create entanglement, where you create a connection between these two

1127
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 1: things so that they have to like follow some overall constraint,

1128
00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 1: want to spin up or want to spin down in

1129
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:01,720
Speaker 1: the case of photon, and so not spin one half particles.

1130
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 1: They don't spin up or down. They have three different states,

1131
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 1: including like a circuit or polarization, but fundamentally the idea

1132
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 1: is the same. And so the first test confirmed Bell's

1133
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 1: experiment in nineteen seventy two, that was just a few

1134
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 1: years after his original paper. It's actually a funny story

1135
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 1: about that because Bell chose to publish his theorem in

1136
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 1: a really cheap journal that didn't charge him to publish it,

1137
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 1: and it meant that very few people actually read the

1138
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: paper when it first came out. It was such a

1139
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 1: cheap journal that if Bell wanted copies of his own paper,

1140
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 1: the journal would even charge him for his own copies.

1141
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 1: Usually if you write a paper, you get like a

1142
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 1: certain number of free copies. So he published it in

1143
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 1: this cheap, obscure journal, which meant that not many people

1144
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 1: saw it. But one guy did and he was really intrigued,

1145
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 1: and he set up the first experiment in the seventies

1146
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: to test this idea.

1147
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 5: M And it involves kind of pairing up electrons or

1148
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 5: pairing up photons, and so maybe just to paint us

1149
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:53,759
Speaker 5: a picture, you know, you've sort of run this a

1150
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 5: bunch of times, right, not just once, and then you

1151
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:57,840
Speaker 5: can tell the universe is random or not. You have

1152
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:00,040
Speaker 5: to run it like a hundred times, and at the

1153
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 5: you get you know a certain number of times them

1154
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 5: both being spin up or spin down. It means that

1155
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 5: the universe is random. But if at the end you

1156
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 5: get that they're both spin up or spin down it's

1157
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 5: a different percentage, then you know that the universe is

1158
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:17,279
Speaker 5: maybe not random. Right, that's kind of what we're looking at.

1159
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, you prepare these particles, you send them off in

1160
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 1: different directions. Then you have some process to randomly choose

1161
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 1: the axis along which you're going to measure the spin. Remember,

1162
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 1: you have to have like three different possibilities and you

1163
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:30,919
Speaker 1: have to randomly choose which one.

1164
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 5: Uh oh, how did they do it? Did they flip

1165
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:33,919
Speaker 5: a coin?

1166
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 1: I don't remember the details of the first experiment, but

1167
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 1: they become more and more elaborate as time goes on.

1168
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: They use things like telescopes pointed to distant stars and

1169
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 1: like the flickering of that star helps determine which one

1170
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,319
Speaker 1: you pick. They've been really, really careful about how to

1171
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 1: determine these things. Sometimes they're linked to cosmic rays, which

1172
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 1: people think might be fundamentally random. Is there a new

1173
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:57,880
Speaker 1: one hitting my detector? Right now. So they do a

1174
00:55:57,880 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: lot of work to try to make sure these things

1175
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 1: are random. Remember in our episode about super determinism, this

1176
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,279
Speaker 1: was the heart of the matter. People were worried about

1177
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 1: whether that choice really was random, or whether it just

1178
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:10,839
Speaker 1: appeared to be random, whether the whole universe had been

1179
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,759
Speaker 1: built to conspire to make these things look random when

1180
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: really they weren't.

1181
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 5: Wait wait, I think you're telling me that this experiment

1182
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 5: that humans have devised to test whether the universe is

1183
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 5: random or not depends on us doing something random. It's

1184
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 5: a little bit funny, isn't it.

1185
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 14: Mm hmm.

1186
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And people have been digging into these apparent loopholes

1187
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 1: and bells experiment, and that's one of them, like, how

1188
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 1: do we know that the way we constructed the experiment

1189
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 1: is actually random? Another one is how do you know

1190
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 1: these two things actually aren't communicating in some way? The

1191
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:43,799
Speaker 1: first experiment wasn't that big, you know, the photons, They

1192
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 1: didn't send them very far apart. And so they've been

1193
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 1: making these experiments more and more elaborate, trying to make

1194
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 1: them more actually random in the way they choose the

1195
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 1: axes and making the particles further and further apart. So

1196
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 1: there's no way to transmit information from one to the

1197
00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 1: other unless you do it faster than the speed of

1198
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 1: light and slowly working to try to close these loopholes,

1199
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 1: and every time somebody does in one of these experiments,

1200
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:08,360
Speaker 1: somebody goes, oh wait, but what if have you checked?

1201
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:10,479
Speaker 1: How do you really know? In one of the core

1202
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 1: foundational loopholes that people are trying to close is this

1203
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 1: one about the randomness. So they come up with these

1204
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:18,760
Speaker 1: more and more elaborate systems to try to ensure that

1205
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,919
Speaker 1: the construction of the experiment itself is actually random.

1206
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 5: Right, because if the experiment depends on you doing something random,

1207
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 5: if you're not really random doing it, then the whole

1208
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 5: experiment sort of falls apart a little bit.

1209
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, absolutely, that's the basis of superdeterminism, to say

1210
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 1: no things really are determined. It's just that even how

1211
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 1: you're choosing the apparently random element of this experiment is

1212
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 1: not random, That itself is determined by things that happened before.

1213
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 5: All Right. So then people have been doing this experiment

1214
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 5: for fifty years, and they've been trying harder and harder

1215
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 5: to make it more and more pure and exact and

1216
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 5: fool proof and what's the overall result that they've been getting.

1217
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 5: They've been getting that the universe is really random at

1218
00:57:58,720 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 5: the quantum level.

1219
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 1: They've been getting result that says that there are no

1220
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 1: local hidden variables. Right. That says that there's no information

1221
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 1: that's being passed along with these particles that somehow determines

1222
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 1: whether the ball is red or blue, or you know,

1223
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 1: what direction is pointed at. There's no information with the particles.

1224
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 5: Wait, I feel like maybe you're using sort of lawyers

1225
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 5: speak here. Absolutely, I am right, Like, I asked whether

1226
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 5: the universe is random or not, and you said there

1227
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 5: are no local hidden virbles, which is not a yes.

1228
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 1: Or no answer, not a yes or no answer.

1229
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 5: So what are the lawyerly nuances here?

1230
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's possible that there are global hidden variables,

1231
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: that there's something controlling everything that happens in the universe

1232
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 1: that determines the outcome of this experiment. Bell's experiment only

1233
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:46,600
Speaker 1: rules out local hidden variables, not global hidden variables.

1234
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 5: What's the difference, Well, local.

1235
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 1: Hidden variables would mean the information is being passed along

1236
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 1: with the electrons. Something about the electron itself in the

1237
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 1: environment of the electron determines whether it goes spin up

1238
00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 1: or spin down, something global would be coreinating a cross

1239
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 1: space time faster than the speed of light. So, for example,

1240
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 1: there is an interpretation of quantum mechanics called Bomian mechanics,

1241
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: where quantum mechanics is not random, but there's this pilot wave,

1242
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 1: this thing which controls the whole universe and arranges for

1243
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: these things, coordinates and says, oh, if this one over

1244
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 1: here is spin up, I'm going to go make this one

1245
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 1: be spin down. And so it's like coordinating globally faster

1246
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 1: than the speed of light.

1247
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 5: Wait, so a local hit enviable is when the ball

1248
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 5: you put in the bag has a little pocket inside

1249
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 5: of it that knows whether it was spinning up or down.

1250
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 5: That's local hidden viable. And the Bell's experiment proves that

1251
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 5: there is no such pocket inside of the electron or

1252
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 5: the ball, but there might be a global hit envirable,

1253
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 5: meaning like there's a giant universe sized pocket out there

1254
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 5: hiding information and coordinating information between here and alpha centaury

1255
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 5: kind of.

1256
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 1: Right exactly, And that seems really weird. So the more

1257
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 1: common interpretation is quantum mechanics is really just random. If

1258
00:59:57,480 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 1: you don't like nonlocality, if you don't like things being

1259
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 1: co ordinated across the universe, then the more common interpretation is, well,

1260
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: things are just really random. But it's important to remember

1261
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 1: that that's one possible interpretation of Bell's experiment. There are

1262
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:12,600
Speaker 1: other ones which involve non local hidden variables, so it

1263
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:14,959
Speaker 1: doesn't actually put a nail in the coffin of hidden

1264
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 1: variables completely, just local hidden variables.

1265
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,800
Speaker 5: Wait, you're saying that like a global hidden viruble, like

1266
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:24,960
Speaker 5: the whole universe is coordinated somehow magically. Is this looks

1267
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,480
Speaker 5: the same as a totally random universe.

1268
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 1: Yes, we cannot tell the difference. Nobody's come up with

1269
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:33,920
Speaker 1: a way to distinguish between that view, which is Bomian mechanics,

1270
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 1: which actually Bell himself was a huge proponent of, and

1271
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 1: the sort of Copenhagen view where these things are not

1272
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 1: determined and then they collapse when you make this measurement.

1273
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 5: I guess. Then the next question is, if there is

1274
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:50,919
Speaker 5: a giant universe sized hidden pocket viable you know, thing

1275
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 5: coordinating everything, is that random or not?

1276
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 1: In that theory, it's not random, it's deterministic. And that theory,

1277
01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:00,959
Speaker 1: everything that happens is determined by the initial conditions. There's

1278
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 1: no randomness in it.

1279
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:05,800
Speaker 5: I feel like this confirms something I've sort of come

1280
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 5: to believe for a long time, which is that there's

1281
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:10,560
Speaker 5: really no difference between a totally random universe and a

1282
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 5: universe run by an all powerful God.

1283
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:18,320
Speaker 1: Well, we can't tell the difference. Philosophically, it's a very

1284
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 1: different statement about what's out there, what's real, what's happening

1285
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:23,640
Speaker 1: in the universe. But it really goes to the heart

1286
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 1: of the question, like what that means. What does it

1287
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 1: mean for things to be happening if we can't know

1288
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 1: the difference, If these particles really are undetermined, or if

1289
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 1: they were determined the whole time by some crazy pilot

1290
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 1: function which is controlling the fate of the universe, what

1291
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:38,919
Speaker 1: really is the difference to us? If we can't ever

1292
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:42,080
Speaker 1: devise an experiment to tell the difference, then is there

1293
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: really a difference? I don't know. It's a really interesting

1294
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 1: question in philosophy, which is one reason why philosophers still

1295
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 1: have jobs.

1296
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 5: Because people are confused. It sounds like we need to

1297
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 5: start a new religion called pilotism, maybe pilotism or how

1298
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 5: would you call it, global hidden virbilism.

1299
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 1: It's not a really it's a totally respectable philosophy of

1300
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 1: quantum mechanics, and it's not very mainstream because for a

1301
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 1: long time people thought that Bell's experiment ruled it out.

1302
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:12,080
Speaker 1: And there was actually a proof by von Neumann that

1303
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 1: suggested that no hidden variables were allowed, but there was

1304
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 1: a mistake in it. So it's a sort of a

1305
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 1: historical accident that Boemian mechanics was sort of cast aside

1306
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 1: for many years, even though Bell himself was a proponent

1307
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 1: of it and people thought that his experiments ruled out

1308
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 1: all hidden variables. And now Boemian mechanics is sort of

1309
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 1: like an afterthought. People don't get taught it in school,

1310
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 1: it's not mentioned very often, even though it's totally consistent

1311
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 1: with our understanding of the universe. It's just maybe even

1312
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 1: stranger than a random universe.

1313
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 5: Well, it's interesting to think that maybe we'll never find

1314
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 5: out right, Like, it's possible that it's impossible to tell

1315
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 5: the difference between all powerful God or pilot function or

1316
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 5: pilot wave and a totally random, unpredictable universe.

1317
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 1: It's possible, or maybe we just need next centuries John

1318
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 1: Bell to come up with an even more clever idea

1319
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 1: for an experiment that can somehow tell the difference. I

1320
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 1: mean I remember learning about this experiment as an undergrad

1321
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 1: in quantum mechanics and thinking, how could you possibly construct

1322
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:09,320
Speaker 1: an experiment to tell the difference. It's impossible, and then

1323
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 1: reading his experiment going oh wow, that's clever. I never

1324
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 1: would have thought of that. So it might just mean

1325
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 1: that we need another generation of clever scientists. Maybe somebody

1326
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 1: out there listening has actually understood our description of Bell's

1327
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:22,960
Speaker 1: experiment and thought, hmm, what if you added this feature

1328
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:24,440
Speaker 1: to it? What if you did that? What have you

1329
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 1: changed it in this way to come up with a

1330
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 1: new experiment that might tell us the difference? Well, what's

1331
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 1: the probability of that somewhere between zero and one? As

1332
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 1: long as it's not zero. I guess we just got

1333
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 1: to keep doing it and eventually somebody will come up

1334
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 1: with the answer. Right, that's how statistics works. That's right.

1335
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 1: If we do an infinite number of podcasts, we will

1336
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 1: eventually inspire the physical theory of the universe.

1337
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1338
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:49,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, we'll eventually get to take credit for understanding the

1339
01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 5: universe exactly.

1340
01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 1: Monkeys on typewriters and cartoonists and physicists on podcasts.

1341
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 5: Well, we're making pretty good progress, right, We've got a

1342
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:59,120
Speaker 5: couple hundred episodes on under our belt.

1343
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, something the four hundred.

1344
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, so now we just need what infinity minus four

1345
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 5: hundred more exactly?

1346
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 1: Let me do the calculation. That's infinity but getting closer.

1347
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 5: All right, Well, we hope you enjoyed that attempt to

1348
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 5: try and explain Bell's theorem, which is pretty complicated.

1349
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 1: It's pretty complicated even if you have the math and

1350
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 1: the diagrams in front of you. So thanks for bearing

1351
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:24,439
Speaker 1: with us and this attempt to translate into a one

1352
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:28,080
Speaker 1: dimensional form for your audio stream. Hope you enjoyed it.

1353
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:32,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, and please join my new church of pilot wavesm.

1354
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 1: Where Jorge is the God. Are you accepting donations?

1355
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:37,120
Speaker 5: There you go, that's right, I am the pilot Wave.

1356
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 5: Thanks for joining us, See you next time.

1357
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain

1358
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of iHeart Radio. For more

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Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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