WEBVTT - Ep1: Boot Camp for Lawyers 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:06.520 Class Action is a production of my heart radio and 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:13.440 sound argument. Kill kill kill, blood makes the grass grow, 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:27.880 kill kill killoo makes the grass GRASSOULA. Well, I just 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:30.280 want to tell the team that you know, we're new 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:32.599 to this, but we're true to this because you went 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:35.519 through the competition and if you weren't any good at all, 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:37.960 you wouldn't be here. We may not be the best, 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:39.720 but we were good enough to get on this team, 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:42.520 so let's do what we gotta do. The whole goal 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:45.360 after this is when you go into the courtroom, there's 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:49.040 somebody depending on you to advocate for them, so let's 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:52.160 learn it now because their life could be on their line, 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:54.520 their finances could be on their line, their family could 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:56.560 be on the line. This is fun, this is great, 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:58.959 but we have to look up for our clients who 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:01.560 we don't even know who there are, but they're waiting 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:09.600 for us. They're waiting words. Our first team with six 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:13.600 lands with a CS at sixteen and a half. Opedia 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:23.319 plus thirty nine tells sixteen you're listening to the sounds 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:34.000 of the next generation of American lawyers. This is Class Action, 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.840 a year long journey inside the hyper competitive world of 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:42.440 law school, mock trial We found three schools with amazing 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:47.000 stories to tell, starting with St. Mary's University in San Antonio, 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:51.040 where we follow one team on their dramatic trip to 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:57.120 the top. We got beat up, bad, bad, until the 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.720 point where like we're like, oh, it can't get any worse, 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:03.160 until it did, and then it did again, and then 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:06.160 we're just like, you know what, let's do this, like 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:08.320 we know what we need to fix. We got this, like, 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:12.160 let's believe in ourselves. And it's been good. The University 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:15.640 of South Dakota, where a new coach is turning around 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:19.400 a program with students who are guilty of being too 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:23.519 nice in the courtroom, the reports of this fighter that 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:27.280 there was blood everywhere, right, that everybody was bleeding. Why 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:30.000 isn't there blood in the front passenger seat, Why isn't 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.280 the victims blood other places in the car? And from 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:37.280 deep in the heart of Brooklyn and all female team 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:42.280 from Brooklyn Law fights, the Ivy League champions, just how 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:46.679 we got them that so many stay and we just 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:49.480 all like tackled her to the ground and we're crying 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:54.080 and screaming and so happy. And to get an idea 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:58.320 of the future of mock trial, we meet students from 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:03.000 the undergraduate pre law program at Dillard University. It's a 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:07.400 team that's been forced to come together after Hurricane Ida 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:10.919 lays waste to their campus. This sport will humble you 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:15.520 so quick in the best way possible. It will really 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:17.320 like let you know you need to buckle down and 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:19.399 do what you have to do. It will really show 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:22.320 you like your potential, and it will also show you 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:27.320 the places that you lag. I'm Katie Fang. This is 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:44.440 class action. Some people say jury trials they're going away, 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:48.800 and there's plenty of evidence to support that. Personally, I 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:51.400 think it's more than a shame. I think it's a crisis, 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.600 a crisis for our democracy because if you've ever had 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:58.360 to go to trial and you've had a lousy trial lawyer, 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.760 it's a real crisis for you. But there may be 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.880 hope on the horizon. Ever since I was kid, I 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:07.200 wanted to be a lawyer. Just always wanted to do that, 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:10.160 and it was kind of like law or nothing. I'm 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:11.920 sure it could be good at something else, but I 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:15.440 just this is my heart. I would say what appeals 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:19.440 to me is the overarching justice system and the fact 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:24.320 that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but in society. 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:27.520 That is not the case in society. Is if you 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:30.000 see a news report that so and so was involved 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:32.920 in a robbery, they did it. They did the robbery, 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:38.080 and I think that's unfair. Okay, here's one paragraph I 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:40.920 can read. That same day, I signed up for something 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:43.800 called mock trial, thinking I would learn a few things 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:47.240 about speaking effectively. I began sitting in the backup practices 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.520 and watching the student lawyers argue their cases. My coaches 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:52.880 didn't let that fly for too long. They insisted I 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:55.599 lead strategy discussions and present every side of the case 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:57.400 until I knew the facts of the story like it 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:03.480 were my own. I have brown skin, I am Indian. 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:08.960 I am not well represented in a courtroom setting. Typically, 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.120 I'm not who you see on a courtroom drama. For example, 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.120 the other day I was talking to my friend and 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:15.440 I was like, yeah, you know, I did this moot 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:19.520 court thing, and he said, oh, like in those courtroom dramas, like, 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:22.160 do you watch them for inspiration? And I honestly was. 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:25.360 I said no, because those people don't look like me. 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:28.640 They don't have my style. They're white males generally, and 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:32.479 for the most part, like I'm building this myself. Whatever 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:36.680 comes out um in a courtroom is because I built 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:42.599 that persona Every occupation is important in its own way, 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:46.280 but I feel like in this type, especially criminal law, 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:48.360 you're with somebody at the worst time of their life. 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:52.000 Every inch of my body felt uncomfortable, to the point 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:54.640 where I felt like quitting. But something about the sport 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:57.360 made me keep coming back. I trained my mind in 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:00.200 my tongue so substantially that the courtroom became the place 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:02.640 where I felt the most comfortable. I learned that being 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.120 a litigator isn't about the objections you make or how 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:08.040 smart you sound. It's about your body language, the way 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:11.279 your voice bends, and the words you use. Most importantly, 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:13.120 it's about the way you connect with people and the 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.080 truth you're able to uncover. It's about the stories you tell. 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:40.400 This is episode one boot Camp for Lawyers. You're all 0:06:40.440 --> 0:07:01.000 ready for me Interestacing City a j don't stand up, 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:04.800 stand up, stand up, stand up, pound on the table, 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:12.040 cut it down the table, Oh my god, oh yeah, who. 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:17.880 I'm the dean of advocacy, so, believe it or not, 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:21.800 we already did some advocacy here today. None of you 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:25.120 wanted to stand up on world would and pound on 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:28.640 the table, But I got you to do that. That, 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.680 to me is the world of advocacy, getting people to 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:35.560 do something that they don't want to do on their own. 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:41.200 For me, it's in the courtroom. I want the judge 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:43.840 to do what I want the judge to do. I 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:47.240 want the jury to do what I want the jury 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:51.040 to do. And I need to train you to do 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:55.160 what I do. That's my world. Close your eyes for 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:58.880 a second. Last night, you thought about your first day 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:02.360 in law school. There was a picture in your head. 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:06.680 How many of you imagined yourself in front of a 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:12.880 jury or a judge making an argument. It's okay to dream, 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:18.440 and here we're gonna help you fulfill that dream, for 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:21.640 each and every one of you that want it. Some 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:24.720 of you are here because something happened in your life. 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:29.800 Some of you have been wronged or a family member 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:33.559 has been wronged. Some of you have been victims, and 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:36.640 that's why you're here, because you want to make a difference. 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:42.679 It's just a small number of people that can control 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:48.959 our liberty to make sure that it is maintained. You 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:53.920 have a unique responsibility. We're doing really important stuff here 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:59.840 and I need you to keep going. The National Trial Team. 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:04.760 M we practice going to trial as a member of 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.400 the National Trial Team. Before you graduate, you will have 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:13.199 no less than seventy trials under your belt, practicing in 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:18.319 front of judges and law practitioners. I invite you to 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:23.640 be a member of the National Trial Your success depends 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:28.240 on each other. Put your arm around each other, take 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:43.599 care of each other, and good luck and muscle and 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:49.679 coming one else did breakfast? I was gonna say, you 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:54.400 get some breakfast tacos. St. Mary's University sits on a 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:58.120 flat piece of land in the west side of San Antonio. 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:01.480 So give you a lay of the land. Here. Rabba 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:06.840 is the original law school. Now it's just offices. St. 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:10.160 Mary's is the first Catholic university in Texas, founded by 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:13.480 the brothers of the Society of Mary in eighteen fifty two. 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:17.880 That's the law school library. That's the administration building. This 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:21.480 is the main classroom building, just seven years after Texas 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:25.120 became a state. So you have the rest of the university. 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:28.160 But we're right here in our own little corner. When 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.480 you take a look around, what's gonna set us apart 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.600 when you go to these other schools. Our student population 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:39.880 has a huge Hispanic Latino population. We're probably going to 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:45.439 be the largest populated school for Latino law students, which 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:48.400 is really important to us that we we had that 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:59.440 opportunity that other schools don't happen. It's fantastic, Lamosambisa Pole. 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:05.880 It hasn't meet that then, than thank you, mamma, But 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:14.800 I did my I just liked. So. Our school has 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.599 an oath that every student takes when they first come in. 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:22.640 You you take a bunch of oaths as a lawyer, 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:26.600 so we figured we might as well let's start one here. 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:47.720 The things that the students are pledging to honesty, morality, integrity, trustworthiness, honor. 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:54.360 These are the things that I expect and we demand 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:57.079 from all of our students. But we want them to 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:00.160 make that commitment from their first day on campus and 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:10.760 saying this pledge does just that. Diligent always. So I'm 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:12.840 looking at that pledge. I have it on a bulletin 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:18.199 board above my desk. I, Patricia Roberts, do solemnly pledge 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:21.640 that I will engage in the diligent study of law, 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:26.040 always acting in an honest, moral and professional manner. I 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:30.720 will be guided by the spirit of hospitality, collaboration, mutual support, 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:34.520 and scholarship, which are the ideals of a Marriness university. 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:38.959 And I will be trustworthy, honorable, and professional in all 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:57.199 aspects of my life. Trustworthy all. So do you go 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:01.280 by a J Belido de lu? Are you just a 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.679 J Belido? Like? What's no? No, never believe o never 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:07.199 de luna never Luna never day believe it or not. 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:11.040 Some people use that the last name is Beth Luna. 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:17.719 It's a double l. So you had the right accent. No, 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:32.680 and in California, Okay. As soon as I heard about 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:37.280 this particular podcast, I log geeked out. Trial ad was 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:41.160 a big part of my law school experience. It was 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:44.200 instrumental in leading me to not go to big law 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:46.959 and to go to the grind of big law and 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:51.320 I went to be a prosecutor. I attribute that love 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:56.240 and that passion for trial and advocacy like true trial 0:13:56.320 --> 0:14:01.360 advocacy because of the mock trials and the litigation skills program. 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.199 So so yes, so you and I are like minded 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:06.600 when it comes to this. There is this old saying 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:08.640 I'm gonna butcher it, but I do like to live 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:11.199 by this kind of old adage. It was a Judy 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.120 Garland quote about you know, the best thing is to 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:18.720 basically be yourself. That being said, though, if you could 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:24.120 build the perfect trial team students trial team student member, 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:29.920 what would that trial team member be? I never thought 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:34.240 about that, to be honest, And I think the reason 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:39.240 why I've never thought about that is because I truly 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:44.720 believe that I am not trying to make somebody into something. 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:50.800 More So, what I want is I want to meet 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:54.960 the students where they are and to help build their 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:59.880 skills and their abilities so that they can be the 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:15.920 best lawyer they can possibly be. Earning a coveted spot 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:20.680 on the trial team at St. Mary's is not automatic. Hey, 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:24.160 three else, come here, three Else. Tryouts are held in 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:27.240 the spring for second and third year law students only, 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:30.200 and just to get this out of the way, second 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:33.440 year law students they're called two Ells. Third year students 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.760 they're known as three l's. Okay, remember how nervous you 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:41.920 guys were. This is like their passage into here. We're 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:45.320 here to help them, do not give them advanced lessons. 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.040 There are two people here that are here on a 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.960 look see the first one. In early August, the two 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:56.120 L's and roll in a trial advocacy class top by 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:59.400 a j and after five o'clock they braved the heat 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:02.800 for an intensive one week boot camp where they're going 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:06.120 to be drilled on everything from how to stand, where 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.400 to stand, how to talk, when to shut up, and 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:20.280 all of the bedrock procedures operating inside of a courtroom. Hey, hey, 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:24.200 what are you doing here? I'm healthy? Oh good team player? 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:28.200 Look at you? Always a team player. I grew up 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:32.040 playing team I got in trouble for stalking too long 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:36.720 and told me to shut up. Happy you think we 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:41.520 get today? Emily Parker is one of a handful of 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:44.680 three l's who are earning extra credit for coaching at 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:47.880 the boot camp. Our boot camp which is basically a 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:53.400 crash course on evidence, on the trial procedure, cross examinations, 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:57.400 and just getting comfortable with learning at a fast pace, 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.360 but also just the very basic rules for how a 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:02.880 trial operates and what what you need to know and 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:05.840 the nuts and bolts. So then when they start their 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:12.080 Trial Advocacy Skills class in the fall, they'll be they'll 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:15.800 be ready to go. Hey, welcome to the first day. 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.959 Here's what I want you to do. Unless you're Andy, 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:24.200 Emily or Jess, I'll want you to go down there 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:26.399 I'm gonna go address them, and I want you to 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:30.760 work with them. And as soon as you believe somebody 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:34.280 is ready for the test, they could come up to 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.119 me or dead. We're gonna be at the top of 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:38.399 the steps, they'll be at the bottom of the steps. 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:42.920 They'll recite, they'll be allowed in. If they don't pass, 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:45.560 we're gonna send them back. You guys need to grab 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.320 them and work with them, have them recited for you again. 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:50.760 All right, let's go address them and get them to work. 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:56.560 My name is Abby. I don't want to speak for 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.679 anyone else, but when he said boot Campbell, I was imagining, 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:02.119 I mean in the Texas weather, like out in the 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.640 gass doing laps and like yelling the rules of evidence, 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:09.800 so anything, it was like better than that, Hi, Hi 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:13.680 might lencinas. I was a bit intimidated, um, but definitely 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.800 just from you know, tryouts, there was still that level 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:20.359 of you know, scariness, not really knowing you know, what 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:23.560 his personality was, how he was going to approach this 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:26.280 whole thing. A couple of minutes. It's good to work. 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:30.360 It's Jared's birthday. To day, Oh my god, Jared's birthday. 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:40.840 Howld are you these twenty three. Happy birthday, that's awesome. 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:43.720 Did you bring cake? I didn't know. I was hoping 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:47.320 you would. I believe that you have to bring cake 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:52.399 when hit your birthday, chocolate with chocolate frosting. To the rules. 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:56.360 All right, get to work. SONA medslaren a dec lauren 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:58.960 is a person who makes a statement and here's say. 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:02.240 Um is a statement that the declarent makes while not 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:05.720 testifying in the current trial or hearing um, and the 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:08.440 party offers it into evidence for the truth of the matter. 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:12.680 Asserted the rule number four hearsay, Yes, what's the real number? 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.120 Eight one? It's the real number p four oh one. 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:21.680 I'm sorry, that's right, that's fine, that you're fine through it. So, 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:24.760 in order to make phase two of the team, they 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:28.520 had to memorize I don't know, like twelve rules of evidence. 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:31.560 They were given two hours to write down these rules 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:34.800 word for word. They were graded. You have to get 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.320 or better on the test in order to stay on 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:42.679 the team. So they've already memorized them for writing. Well, 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:44.600 now they have to come in and give it to 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:50.119 me verbally. What is the definition of relevance? Evidence is 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:53.280 relevant if a has any tendency to make a fact 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:55.600 more or less probable than it would be without the evidence, 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:58.679 and be the fact type of consequence and determined to actions. 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:01.920 I love it. What is the definition of here saying? 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:04.800 Here saying is a statement other than one made by 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:08.359 the declarant while testifying at the trial or hearing offered 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:10.359 an evidence to prove the truth of the matter? Is 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:16.639 sort of okay, good job. What is the definition of 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:22.240 relevance evidence as relevant if it has any Why? For 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:25.280 those people that are listening and wondering and scratching their head. 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:28.880 There's dozens of rules of evidence in the Federal Rules 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:33.560 of Evidence, that's right. Why those specifically? And if I'm 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:36.359 able to recite it back to you? Why is that 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.160 some type of threshold success for me to be able 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:40.480 to get my foot on the door to even be 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:43.639 considered to be on the St. Mary's team. It's a 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:47.520 little bit of effort to memorize that. So they're looking 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:50.560 up at you and they have to recite these two 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:54.639 rules to walk past me, to come up the stairs 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:59.879 and walk past me. So there's an elevation that happens. Right, 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:04.680 there's a feeling inside. It's part psychological, it's there's a 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:07.800 whole lot of reasons for it, but it's all part 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:11.040 of that process of if you don't care, if you're 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:15.640 not willing to do just this little bit, I don't 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:20.879 have time for you. Okay, stay your name for the record. 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:26.280 It's cool, do alright, Cole. What is the definition of hearsay? Hearsay? 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:28.800 Hear say a statement other than one made by the 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:31.840 declaring while testifying at the trial hearing offered nevidence for 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:34.520 the truth for the matter of serv This is my 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:37.760 first year on the trial team. I did mootcourt prior 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:41.840 to this, So this kind of activity it's very difficult 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:43.600 to just really jump into because you've got to know 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:46.560 a lot of basic tenants of law that we've kind 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:49.840 of only just touched on. Three years ago. I was 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:54.280 in your English class and um, I gotta be um. 0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:57.119 I was involved in a car accident today. Is my 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:01.000 English class be relevant? It is not. Why not, because 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:04.760 it has no bearing on the practic hand or the action, 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:08.360 which is a car exact Welcome to boardicle. Okay, find 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:12.400 a second person. It looks like Jasmine is available. Say 0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:14.680 your name for the record. My name is Karen Crawford. 0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:18.040 All right, Miss Crawford. You and I are walking down 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:20.040 the street. We just had a cup of coffee. All 0:22:20.040 --> 0:22:23.200 of a sudden we hear crash and someone yells out, 0:22:23.400 --> 0:22:26.119 holy cow, that guy went through a red light. Is 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:28.680 that here saying the person who said it, no, because 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:30.879 he saw it with the di Is it an out 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:33.160 of court statement? It's out of court. Is it being 0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:38.280 offered for the truth? Not that moment? Go back, go back, 0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:45.680 go back. Oh my god, that okay, Karen, let's do it. 0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:54.720 So many trips up? Yeah? How did they do? As 0:22:54.800 --> 0:22:57.240 you go through this process, I really want you to 0:22:57.320 --> 0:23:00.760 think about it this way. The rules of evidence are 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:05.800 not to keep evidence out. The rules of evidence are 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:10.159 to guide you on how you bring evidence in. It 0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:13.120 tells you how to get it in. If you look 0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:16.240 at it that way, it becomes a lot easier than 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:20.440 it's this barrier. It's not a barrier. It's a welcoming 0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:24.679 that we're gonna have a really, really busy week. We're 0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:27.400 gonna be out here for most of it. I brought 0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:31.640 a cooler, Andy brought the ice. Drink often drink a lot, 0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:34.760 stay hydrated. We should hit a hunter and two tomorrow. 0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:37.360 Offered in evidence to prove the truth of the matter 0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:40.400 of certain is the statement made out of court. Yes, 0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:42.080 the statement is made out of courts on the street. 0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:46.119 So then that statement is because it is being offered 0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:49.399 to prove the truth of the matter started. So therefore 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:55.320 it is saying thank you. Come on in? Is that everybody? 0:23:56.400 --> 0:24:02.680 That man? Awesome? All right? Come on, everybody, let's get 0:24:02.720 --> 0:24:07.080 to work. Y'all made it. That was really easy? When't it? 0:24:07.280 --> 0:24:14.480 When not easy? Give yourselves a block. Come on. Now 0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:16.679 you know the definitions. Now you need to learn how 0:24:16.720 --> 0:24:20.280 to use them. Our first assignment is to get to 0:24:20.359 --> 0:24:24.160 know each other. Team up with somebody. No one's gonna 0:24:24.200 --> 0:24:29.920 ask a single question. When I say ones, go for 0:24:30.440 --> 0:24:35.520 three minutes without stopping. I need you to tell a 0:24:35.680 --> 0:24:39.919 story about yourself to the other person. The person may 0:24:39.960 --> 0:24:43.920 not ask you a single question. You will just tell 0:24:44.000 --> 0:24:47.400 the story about you. I hope to god you came 0:24:47.440 --> 0:24:50.359 here with a piece of paper and a pencil, because 0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:54.879 while the other person is talking, you're taking notes, and 0:24:55.720 --> 0:25:01.240 you may not stop talking until I say stop. Let's 0:25:01.240 --> 0:25:03.760 get this table combined with this table, and that table 0:25:03.840 --> 0:25:10.080 combined with that table. You need to throw over here. 0:25:10.640 --> 0:25:12.639 Today I'm going to tell you a story about how 0:25:12.720 --> 0:25:15.480 my house burned down. True story from when I was seven. 0:25:16.480 --> 0:25:18.720 One night I went to sleep. It was a Sunday night. 0:25:19.400 --> 0:25:21.560 We didn't have school the next day, so my older 0:25:21.600 --> 0:25:25.719 brother was awake and he awoke to a bank glass 0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:29.240 crashing everywhere. I used to teach at Maryland. I used 0:25:29.240 --> 0:25:30.879 to do this when I was a Maryland and I 0:25:31.000 --> 0:25:33.640 know that at Maryland, I would teach something one time 0:25:33.680 --> 0:25:35.800 and I was done with it. It was over. I 0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:39.320 didn't have to do it again. That's not where I am. 0:25:40.080 --> 0:25:42.240 And I learned in addition to that, like whatever we 0:25:42.359 --> 0:25:45.440 say could really get us in jail, Like it didn't 0:25:45.440 --> 0:25:47.760 matter what we were saying. I mean, I'm not knocking 0:25:47.840 --> 0:25:51.439 my kids. I'm just saying that they need a different teacher. 0:25:52.000 --> 0:25:54.960 They need me to be a different teacher. Thirty seconds later, 0:25:56.440 --> 0:26:01.320 run way back, so I try to take off. I'm 0:26:01.359 --> 0:26:04.080 not getting kids that even know what trial advocacy is, 0:26:04.840 --> 0:26:06.879 or some of them may have had an experience in 0:26:07.000 --> 0:26:11.000 high school, but they weren't on a national champion high 0:26:11.000 --> 0:26:16.879 school team. Okay, stop talking, stop laughing, not just kidding, 0:26:19.400 --> 0:26:24.600 leave everything behind. Just bring your chair and put him 0:26:24.600 --> 0:26:29.800 in this box. So when you come up here, I 0:26:29.920 --> 0:26:32.960 want you to say your name and the person you're 0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:37.520 introducing and tell us about that person. I'll take volunteers. 0:26:38.760 --> 0:26:40.840 So yeah, I love that. Let's get it over with 0:26:43.400 --> 0:26:46.359 who you are, who you're introducing, tell us your story. 0:26:48.119 --> 0:26:51.800 Can someone take notes? Take notes and these stories? So Hi, 0:26:52.080 --> 0:26:55.040 my name is Maria Ansinas and this was my partner, 0:26:55.480 --> 0:26:58.960 Raven Benya, and she told me the story of why 0:26:59.440 --> 0:27:02.000 law school, which I'm sure all of us have been 0:27:02.040 --> 0:27:05.879 asked before. So she went ahead and started off with 0:27:06.320 --> 0:27:09.840 how she was concerned for people. She had a concern 0:27:09.920 --> 0:27:12.800 in her heart for people specifically. I just moved here 0:27:12.880 --> 0:27:14.760 for law school, so it was a little rough my 0:27:14.840 --> 0:27:19.080 first year. I won't lie moving. I've never lived away 0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:22.280 from home, away from family, so I have no lawyers 0:27:22.280 --> 0:27:24.880 in the family. Um, but I was a legal secretary 0:27:24.920 --> 0:27:27.520 and a paralegal prior to coming to law school. Law 0:27:27.560 --> 0:27:29.320 school was always the plan, just kind of took a 0:27:29.320 --> 0:27:32.399 little while to get in there. So she went ahead 0:27:32.560 --> 0:27:36.680 and started to do a lot of activist work. She 0:27:36.840 --> 0:27:42.080 became an activist, but she quickly learned that the FBI 0:27:42.160 --> 0:27:44.760 would get involved in a lot of things, and she 0:27:45.600 --> 0:27:49.640 learned the whole culture of security and how any little 0:27:49.720 --> 0:27:52.720 thing that she said or her friends said ultimately was 0:27:52.840 --> 0:27:55.960 tracked and ultimately could lead to a lot of I 0:27:56.040 --> 0:27:58.520 didn't want to be the behind the scenes person. Everything 0:27:58.600 --> 0:28:00.760 that staff does is so important, but I wanted to 0:28:00.840 --> 0:28:02.960 be the advocate in the courtroom. And I was just 0:28:03.240 --> 0:28:05.560 through watching those other advocates that I was just like, Yep, 0:28:05.640 --> 0:28:09.160 that's that's what I need to do. My specific interest 0:28:09.359 --> 0:28:13.280 is in Special Victims Unit, sex crimes, crimes against children, 0:28:13.560 --> 0:28:16.480 domestic violence. That's where I really found a passion for 0:28:16.560 --> 0:28:20.680 helping the victims people. And even though her road took 0:28:20.680 --> 0:28:23.560 different directions, law school was always kind of the second option, 0:28:24.000 --> 0:28:32.200 and that's where she's at now. There's a lot of 0:28:32.200 --> 0:28:35.520 power in a legal degree. I asked my good friend 0:28:35.640 --> 0:28:38.720 pre Barrara, the former U S Attorney for the legendary 0:28:38.800 --> 0:28:41.800 Southern District of New York, to join us on this journey. 0:28:42.720 --> 0:28:46.000 Individuals have power generally, they have their voice, they can protest, 0:28:46.800 --> 0:28:48.440 they can run for office. There's lots of things you 0:28:48.440 --> 0:28:51.920 can do. But I think there has been an appreciation 0:28:52.280 --> 0:28:54.440 as our democracy, in my view, has been under attack 0:28:55.080 --> 0:28:56.880 from a lot of different places over the last number 0:28:56.880 --> 0:28:58.520 of years. That's not a bad thing to have a 0:28:58.560 --> 0:29:00.760 law degree and have the which of access to a 0:29:00.840 --> 0:29:04.960 court to redress grievances and equalize the playing field for 0:29:05.040 --> 0:29:13.320 people who don't have access to justice. Is that six o'clock? Yeah, 0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:22.680 So let's everyone take a moment to reflect. As a St. 0:29:22.760 --> 0:29:30.719 Mary's bells ring? How long do they go? The students 0:29:30.800 --> 0:29:33.440 pack up and head for their cars. A J. Sits 0:29:33.480 --> 0:29:36.240 down at an old picnic table with a couple of coaches, 0:29:36.680 --> 0:29:41.320 deb Unich and Misty death Ridge, the two elves in 0:29:41.440 --> 0:29:45.000 their presentations. Was there anyone there that like stood out 0:29:45.040 --> 0:29:48.040 to you the very first one? It's hard to go first, 0:29:48.480 --> 0:29:50.560 but she kind of knocked it out of the park. 0:29:53.000 --> 0:29:55.720 It was very animated. Her speech was animated and had emotion. 0:29:55.840 --> 0:29:58.600 It had tone and variants. It was good. It was 0:29:58.680 --> 0:30:01.280 it was organized, It made sense. We have several that 0:30:01.400 --> 0:30:03.840 need to We're gonna have to be have them sit 0:30:03.880 --> 0:30:06.400 on their hands. We have a lot of hand movement. 0:30:07.640 --> 0:30:10.560 Are you shocked at the deer in the headlights? Look 0:30:10.680 --> 0:30:13.840 with about two thirds of them a little? I don't 0:30:13.880 --> 0:30:16.320 remember that from last year. My concern is that is 0:30:16.520 --> 0:30:20.160 is that a COVID thing? We're back in person meeting 0:30:20.200 --> 0:30:23.360 people in person again. Is it a hold over from 0:30:23.400 --> 0:30:26.760 having done everything last year on zoom and that type 0:30:26.760 --> 0:30:29.440 of their first time live. This class, they've never been live. 0:30:30.200 --> 0:30:33.080 It's a really good that's a really good observation. So 0:30:33.200 --> 0:30:34.960 we should ease them in a little bit rather than 0:30:35.680 --> 0:30:38.120 hitting them hard. I'll say about doing them hard tomorrow. 0:30:38.240 --> 0:30:42.760 But no, you're gonna be easy on them. No, a 0:30:42.920 --> 0:30:48.240 J doesn't do either, but maybe easy for a J. 0:31:01.000 --> 0:31:03.520 To get the bigger picture of the mock trial scene, 0:31:03.920 --> 0:31:06.800 I reached out to Joe Lester. When Joe is not 0:31:07.000 --> 0:31:11.240 overseeing the trial ad program at American University, he runs 0:31:11.640 --> 0:31:16.480 the go to website called Trial Team Central. Trial Team Central. 0:31:16.560 --> 0:31:19.520 We keep track of all the law school trial competitions, 0:31:19.600 --> 0:31:23.080 the results. We've kind of grown. It was first just 0:31:23.160 --> 0:31:25.600 who won, and now it's you know who one and 0:31:25.640 --> 0:31:30.200 who's playing. And we also talked with Joe's colleague, Adam 0:31:30.240 --> 0:31:35.560 schlawhead from Fordam University. Adams created this ranking system to 0:31:35.720 --> 0:31:40.960 measure the top mock trial programs across the country. Do 0:31:41.040 --> 0:31:44.520 you get three points if you win a competition, two 0:31:44.600 --> 0:31:49.239 points if you come in second, and one point if 0:31:49.280 --> 0:31:52.560 you make the semifinals. So then I just started allocating 0:31:52.640 --> 0:31:57.640 points and counting them up. So Adam and Joe. I'm 0:31:57.680 --> 0:31:59.840 the new kid on the block, but I have had 0:32:00.000 --> 0:32:03.160 the most amazing ride getting to know these coaches and 0:32:03.360 --> 0:32:06.880 some of the competitors. So I have met some pretty 0:32:06.880 --> 0:32:11.560 spectacular kids. They have reaffirmed my belief that the children 0:32:11.600 --> 0:32:14.880 are going to save the world because they are so 0:32:15.320 --> 0:32:19.760 smart and so self aware. And I would like to 0:32:19.880 --> 0:32:24.040 thank having been a trial ad geek myself in law 0:32:24.160 --> 0:32:28.400 school that being a part of these teams has been 0:32:28.520 --> 0:32:31.360 a huge part of it. Yeah. You know, one of 0:32:31.400 --> 0:32:36.120 the other critiques that we hear, especially from people who 0:32:36.120 --> 0:32:40.400 aren't trialers, is that there are fewer and fewer trials 0:32:40.480 --> 0:32:45.520 happening in the country. The journy trial is vanishing. So 0:32:45.800 --> 0:32:50.400 why is this so important? And I kind of think 0:32:50.480 --> 0:32:56.200 that because the jury trial is becoming more rare, that 0:32:56.320 --> 0:33:00.280 makes it more important that the students get the training 0:33:00.560 --> 0:33:04.440 in law school because the days of the young lawyer 0:33:04.680 --> 0:33:09.520 trying a hundred cases before their thirty it doesn't happen, right, 0:33:09.640 --> 0:33:14.920 It just does not happen, especially at big firms and 0:33:15.360 --> 0:33:19.280 you know, high stakes litigation. I do uh some training 0:33:19.400 --> 0:33:21.680 for law firms, and these are folks who have been 0:33:21.840 --> 0:33:25.200 at the law firm for many many many, many years, 0:33:25.240 --> 0:33:28.200 and they've never even been close to a trial. If 0:33:28.240 --> 0:33:29.880 you ever watch a baseball game and you watch someone 0:33:29.920 --> 0:33:32.680 throw the ball from third base to first base, most 0:33:32.760 --> 0:33:35.840 people can't even throw a ball that far. It's it's 0:33:35.840 --> 0:33:38.320 a long way, and they do it like it's no 0:33:38.480 --> 0:33:41.080 big deal. And I think they think of trial work 0:33:41.120 --> 0:33:43.400 in sort of the practice of law is something that's 0:33:43.400 --> 0:33:46.640 just easy and no big deal. And that's where the 0:33:46.760 --> 0:33:50.000 trial training that we give gives these students such a 0:33:50.120 --> 0:33:55.760 leg up on their competition on their classmates, because it 0:33:56.000 --> 0:33:57.920 is not something you can just walk in and do. 0:33:58.080 --> 0:34:00.280 It is not monkey see monkey do. I can mimic 0:34:00.320 --> 0:34:01.800 it and I can take care of it. It takes 0:34:02.120 --> 0:34:04.560 a lot of training and understanding to know exactly what 0:34:04.680 --> 0:34:06.280 you're doing and how to do it, or you'll never 0:34:06.320 --> 0:34:09.640 be able to hit a gird ball. So they need 0:34:09.800 --> 0:34:14.160 this kind of training because they don't have the luxury 0:34:14.840 --> 0:34:18.440 of learning on the backs of their clients. Because at 0:34:18.480 --> 0:34:21.080 the end of the day, trials are still happening, even 0:34:21.120 --> 0:34:23.360 if it's to a lesser degree, they are still happening. 0:34:23.440 --> 0:34:27.000 And that's the cloud looming over all litigation. And if 0:34:27.080 --> 0:34:31.000 if you take away that ability, then you're really losing 0:34:31.200 --> 0:34:38.520 a major tactical advantage. So you preface what it is 0:34:38.600 --> 0:34:42.200 that you're trying to do your market You show it, 0:34:43.080 --> 0:34:49.560 you asked to approach, they validate its existence. You publish. 0:34:50.280 --> 0:34:52.200 That's kind of the gist of the way this works. 0:34:52.880 --> 0:34:55.360 Now you all do have a document. Let's be frank, right, 0:34:55.400 --> 0:34:58.239 AJ you you want to create a St. Mary's Law 0:34:58.280 --> 0:35:02.239 and national team that's going to be competitively good, and 0:35:02.320 --> 0:35:05.919 you talk about that pressure cooker of these students. They've 0:35:06.000 --> 0:35:10.520 got their academic rigor and the academic demands. I think 0:35:10.560 --> 0:35:12.759 it's really relevant because a lot of criticism about law 0:35:12.800 --> 0:35:17.800 school has been what's the real world practical benefit of 0:35:17.920 --> 0:35:20.200 going to law school? Like what are you learning in 0:35:20.280 --> 0:35:24.920 the classroom versus maybe being on one of these trial teams. 0:35:25.600 --> 0:35:27.719 This competitive to get on the team, I presume it's 0:35:27.719 --> 0:35:31.200 competitive to stay on the team. It's very competitive to 0:35:31.239 --> 0:35:34.120 get on the team. It's very competitive to stay on 0:35:34.239 --> 0:35:36.279 the team. The pressure is high when you get on 0:35:36.360 --> 0:35:40.719 the team, and a lot of people don't make it. 0:35:41.480 --> 0:35:45.120 They withdraw on their own or they withdraw through after 0:35:45.440 --> 0:35:51.040 a conversation. My number one goal is not to win championships. 0:35:52.760 --> 0:35:57.120 It is not don't get me wrong, I really love winning. 0:35:57.680 --> 0:36:00.840 I'm very competitive. If we were to break out a 0:36:00.920 --> 0:36:04.719 checkerboard right now, I'm going to play and play and 0:36:04.840 --> 0:36:07.279 play and play until I figure out how to beat you. 0:36:07.880 --> 0:36:09.880 I like that You're already going in knowing that I'm 0:36:09.920 --> 0:36:12.640 beating you at the beginning. There's there's no doubt about that. 0:36:13.200 --> 0:36:15.919 But you will get angry at me because I will 0:36:16.000 --> 0:36:19.720 make you keep going until I win, until I figure 0:36:19.760 --> 0:36:22.960 out what you're doing. And I am not so I 0:36:23.480 --> 0:36:27.840 want to impart that competitive spirit on my students, but 0:36:28.040 --> 0:36:32.600 it is not not my goal. I grew up really 0:36:32.680 --> 0:36:36.000 really poor, Katie. I mean really poor. I had parents 0:36:36.040 --> 0:36:38.920 who left Cuba to come here to this country. They 0:36:39.040 --> 0:36:40.960 left on a boat, on one of the freedom boats, 0:36:41.400 --> 0:36:44.600 like many other Cubans that came to this country fleeing 0:36:44.640 --> 0:36:49.160 a communist Cuba Fidel Castro rule, and they came here 0:36:49.239 --> 0:36:54.080 with nothing close on their backs. You don't know it 0:36:54.200 --> 0:36:56.480 by listening to me, because you don't hear me as 0:36:56.560 --> 0:36:59.600 a Latino. Oh but I heard it right there, Latino. 0:37:00.120 --> 0:37:03.840 I have seen that's how some people are treated versus 0:37:04.000 --> 0:37:07.920 other people. And I've been poor as an adult, and 0:37:08.000 --> 0:37:10.080 I've worked through it until I got to this stage 0:37:10.080 --> 0:37:11.920 in my life where I'm not poor. I'm not rich, 0:37:12.000 --> 0:37:16.000 but I'm not poor. What I know is this is 0:37:16.040 --> 0:37:17.799 that there are a lot of people out there who 0:37:17.880 --> 0:37:21.560 are not getting the representation that they need. And I 0:37:21.680 --> 0:37:24.759 see day in and day out how people do not 0:37:25.080 --> 0:37:30.760 represent people correctly. They asked dumb questions. They ask questions 0:37:30.840 --> 0:37:34.000 that forward or advanced the theory of the case for 0:37:34.160 --> 0:37:41.279 the other side rather than their side. I mean, I've 0:37:41.280 --> 0:37:44.239 come from a town of about three thousand people. Um, 0:37:44.360 --> 0:37:46.520 everything I've done in my life, people say, well, where 0:37:46.640 --> 0:37:49.080 is that from. I had somebody tell me this week 0:37:49.200 --> 0:37:52.840 that I sound like cornbread. Whatever they mean, I don't know. 0:37:52.920 --> 0:37:54.279 I don't know if that's a good thing or a 0:37:54.320 --> 0:37:57.040 bad thing, But I mean that's been my mentality my 0:37:57.120 --> 0:37:59.600 whole life. My dad's not a lawyer or a doctor. 0:37:59.680 --> 0:38:02.480 My dad a farmer. And the thing is for me, 0:38:02.800 --> 0:38:04.680 I'm out to prove to the world that I can 0:38:04.800 --> 0:38:08.120 do and I'm going to do it. Hi. My name 0:38:08.200 --> 0:38:11.399 is Karen Fraser Craffer, and the first day was quite intimidating, 0:38:12.160 --> 0:38:14.719 very intimidating. Has studied those things for weeks and it 0:38:14.800 --> 0:38:19.040 seems like it just blanked out Hello and Maria hymis. 0:38:19.239 --> 0:38:20.880 So the first day, I think we were all like 0:38:20.960 --> 0:38:22.960 maybe texting each other, a bunch of us like what's 0:38:22.960 --> 0:38:26.640 gonna happen, what's going on? And we didn't know what 0:38:26.719 --> 0:38:29.400 to expect, honestly, And I remember telling some of our 0:38:29.440 --> 0:38:31.279 friends I feel like throwing up, like I don't know, 0:38:31.560 --> 0:38:34.080 like I'm so nervous. And we get here and it's 0:38:34.120 --> 0:38:36.600 like kind of a relief once the first day is over, 0:38:37.280 --> 0:38:41.080 because we're like, Okay, it's gonna be hard, but we 0:38:41.160 --> 0:38:47.000 can do this a little over a thousand miles due north, 0:38:47.560 --> 0:38:51.000 another trial team, the University of South Dakota, is lugging 0:38:51.040 --> 0:38:56.120 their law books back to campus. Good morning, good morning, 0:38:57.160 --> 0:39:01.560 I was doing this morning. We're doing a series of 0:39:01.719 --> 0:39:08.719 quorn tonight. Open next emails are great way to communicate 0:39:08.760 --> 0:39:11.320 when we're not going to be played. Uh, the knowledge 0:39:11.480 --> 0:39:14.240 is not there front to the email at that shirts 0:39:18.480 --> 0:39:20.000 MS Peter and if that I got, we do it. 0:39:21.400 --> 0:39:25.319 Come on, Oh listen to dream how you doing start? 0:39:35.239 --> 0:39:37.359 So these are the things that we're going to cover tonight, 0:39:38.040 --> 0:39:39.959 things that you need to know about law school, mock trial. 0:39:40.719 --> 0:39:44.080 We're gonna talk briefly through preliminary matters, which is the 0:39:44.120 --> 0:39:45.719 first thing that you're going to say when you're doing 0:39:45.800 --> 0:39:48.160 one of these competitions. We're gonna talk about the use 0:39:48.200 --> 0:39:51.000 of evidence at the competition. What you need to know 0:39:52.239 --> 0:39:53.640 and what the people on this side of the room 0:39:53.680 --> 0:39:58.000 already now. In six weeks, we take a fact pattern 0:39:58.080 --> 0:39:59.719 that would normally take two to three years to come 0:39:59.800 --> 0:40:04.560 to aisle, and we take to trial and they're intense. Uh. 0:40:04.760 --> 0:40:06.239 Some of our fact patterns were as long as two 0:40:06.320 --> 0:40:08.160 hundred pages last year. Some of them were as short 0:40:08.200 --> 0:40:10.239 as sixty five. The thing that you need to know 0:40:10.320 --> 0:40:12.920 most of all, you guys are engaged in a highly 0:40:13.000 --> 0:40:16.479 competitive law school sport. We have gotten to the point 0:40:16.880 --> 0:40:18.600 through the work of the people who have been on 0:40:18.680 --> 0:40:21.239 trial team before you, since I have been here, where 0:40:21.280 --> 0:40:24.000 we are now regularly getting invited and accepted to top 0:40:24.080 --> 0:40:28.680 tier competitions. We are regularly competing against top twenty advocacy schools. 0:40:28.920 --> 0:40:31.880 I don't care that their top twenty advocacy schools. They 0:40:31.920 --> 0:40:34.160 are not any better than any of you. They are 0:40:34.200 --> 0:40:36.000 not any smarter than any of you. They don't have 0:40:36.080 --> 0:40:38.680 any advantage over any of you, other than the fact 0:40:38.719 --> 0:40:41.799 that they have a pre existing template. We're making all 0:40:41.840 --> 0:40:44.200 of that here together because we're building our team together. 0:40:44.480 --> 0:40:47.480 We're currently ranked number ninety in the country for trial advocacy. 0:40:48.080 --> 0:40:51.000 That means we are in the top half already. Our 0:40:51.080 --> 0:40:53.040 goal is to increase that ranking. How do we do 0:40:53.160 --> 0:40:55.880 that by showing up and showing out at competitions. Right now, 0:40:57.040 --> 0:41:02.399 we're taking over with ethical zealous trial advocacy, and we're 0:41:02.440 --> 0:41:04.840 showing them that it doesn't matter what part of the 0:41:04.920 --> 0:41:07.319 country that you're from or how much money you've spent 0:41:07.400 --> 0:41:10.480 on all of your equipment. We're coming for you and 0:41:10.600 --> 0:41:13.160 it's not gonna be fun for you when that happens. 0:41:14.080 --> 0:41:16.160 When you walk into that zoom room when you log in. 0:41:16.440 --> 0:41:19.080 I don't care if you're going against Baylor. I don't 0:41:19.120 --> 0:41:21.759 care if you're going against Temple. I don't care what 0:41:22.000 --> 0:41:24.440 school it is that you're competing against. It's four other 0:41:24.560 --> 0:41:28.440 law students. You have every potential to beat them, just 0:41:28.640 --> 0:41:30.279 as much as they have the potential to beat you. 0:41:30.600 --> 0:41:32.040 It's just a question of who's going to do the 0:41:32.080 --> 0:41:33.600 work at the end of the day, guys, that's really 0:41:33.640 --> 0:41:36.600 all there is to it. So I come to you 0:41:36.680 --> 0:41:38.800 at the end of my one l year. I I 0:41:38.960 --> 0:41:42.120 hear the siren song of working with coach Laura Rose 0:41:42.640 --> 0:41:46.239 being on this amazing team. Walk me through what I 0:41:46.280 --> 0:41:49.439 should expect as that first semester too, well, in those 0:41:49.520 --> 0:41:53.520 beginning days of that semester with you, what's that gonna 0:41:53.560 --> 0:41:56.239 look like for me? The first thing that's gonna happen 0:41:56.280 --> 0:41:58.399 is you're gonna be absolutely terrified because we're gonna sit 0:41:58.440 --> 0:41:59.840 you down at boot camp and we're gonna tell you 0:42:00.080 --> 0:42:02.160 just how this goes. And in the course of that, 0:42:02.320 --> 0:42:03.879 you're going to have this moment of oh my gosh, 0:42:03.920 --> 0:42:06.000 can I actually do this? And law school on top 0:42:06.080 --> 0:42:08.160 of it, it's like drinking water through a fire hose 0:42:08.239 --> 0:42:10.160 on extra pressure. When you join trial team on top 0:42:10.200 --> 0:42:12.560 of law school, we already know that that law school 0:42:12.640 --> 0:42:14.279 is drinking through a fire hose. Now let's take it 0:42:14.400 --> 0:42:16.400 up to eleven by adding trial team on top of it. 0:42:16.600 --> 0:42:18.360 So you're going to get a faster and more intense 0:42:18.440 --> 0:42:23.200 evidence education than what's going on. Questions about cross right now, Yes, 0:42:23.880 --> 0:42:25.879 it's something that I learned in trial tech. I think 0:42:25.920 --> 0:42:28.560 it's important to focus on the negative space that's there 0:42:28.840 --> 0:42:31.680 about what they didn't do versus what they did wrong, 0:42:32.480 --> 0:42:34.400 and that's going to be particularly important when we talk 0:42:34.440 --> 0:42:37.279 about this this fake environment of the trial team competition, right, 0:42:37.760 --> 0:42:40.640 because you're going up against other law students, so they're 0:42:40.680 --> 0:42:42.560 going to be trying to play chess against you the 0:42:42.760 --> 0:42:46.040 entire time that you're ready to go. Your job is 0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:47.920 to be more flutent in their witness than they are 0:42:48.920 --> 0:42:50.800 and then to not let them get away with anything. 0:42:50.880 --> 0:42:52.520 So everybody likes to say that I'm a little carbon 0:42:52.560 --> 0:42:54.799 copy of Dad, with just enough of my mother thrown 0:42:54.840 --> 0:42:57.239 in to be interesting. My father's Charles Harrish as the 0:42:57.320 --> 0:43:00.400 third He ran sets in University College of Laws Advocacy 0:43:00.440 --> 0:43:03.400 program for fourteen years. During that time when he was 0:43:03.440 --> 0:43:05.400 in charge, they were always number one, number one in 0:43:05.440 --> 0:43:08.560 the nation for trial ad He is a giant of 0:43:08.640 --> 0:43:11.160 a personality and a titan within the industry and one 0:43:11.200 --> 0:43:14.279 of the people who now all of us who are 0:43:14.400 --> 0:43:17.279 currently in the job of coaching and teaching rely upon 0:43:17.400 --> 0:43:19.320 for his wisdom and what he did. But there is 0:43:19.360 --> 0:43:22.840 no understating the impact that he had on the profession 0:43:22.920 --> 0:43:27.320 in particular. But he also casts a giant shadow. Listening 0:43:27.560 --> 0:43:31.560 to what they say is absolutely everything and cross examination 0:43:32.120 --> 0:43:34.359 you have to be engaged and in the moment. If 0:43:34.440 --> 0:43:37.480 you're not paying attention number one, they may give you 0:43:37.600 --> 0:43:41.200 a non verbal answer or you need to go back 0:43:41.239 --> 0:43:43.719 that's a yes, that's a no, because otherwise it's not 0:43:43.840 --> 0:43:46.239 on the record. And then, as you all know, one 0:43:46.280 --> 0:43:48.200 of the key jobs of the trial attorneys to protect 0:43:48.200 --> 0:43:50.759 the appellate record. You have to make sure that it's 0:43:50.800 --> 0:43:54.080 on there, because otherwise you're you're robbing yourself of the argument. Technically, 0:43:54.239 --> 0:43:57.799 you're not permitted to argue any of that in your 0:43:57.840 --> 0:44:00.440 closing argument because it's not on the record, right, But 0:44:00.600 --> 0:44:04.120 listening to what they say provides fertile ground for further 0:44:04.200 --> 0:44:07.719 cross examination and further ground for embarrassment for them on 0:44:07.880 --> 0:44:11.080 those key facts. Toss out something that we haven't talked 0:44:11.120 --> 0:44:13.839 about yet about cross examination. This is the part where 0:44:13.840 --> 0:44:15.960 the student interacts with the instructor blah blah blah blah blah. 0:44:19.440 --> 0:44:21.840 You know, speak frankly with me, Laura, Are you trying 0:44:21.960 --> 0:44:26.040 to build something that's going to exceed that legacy? Are 0:44:26.120 --> 0:44:29.400 you trying to outshine it? Are you trying to match it? Like? 0:44:29.520 --> 0:44:32.960 Does that create any metrics for you internally for how 0:44:33.080 --> 0:44:36.960 you're trying to build and continue to grow and enhance 0:44:37.040 --> 0:44:39.759 the program you have at South Dakota. I'm going to 0:44:39.880 --> 0:44:42.120 say no. And and here's why I'm going to say no. 0:44:42.280 --> 0:44:45.239 I take inspiration from everything that my father has ever done. 0:44:45.320 --> 0:44:48.239 We have had a friendly competition going my entire life. 0:44:48.400 --> 0:44:49.800 When I took the S A T, I had to 0:44:49.840 --> 0:44:51.160 brag to him that I got a better S A 0:44:51.239 --> 0:44:52.920 T score than he did. When I took the outside, 0:44:52.920 --> 0:44:54.160 I had to do the same thing. Like it's that 0:44:54.280 --> 0:44:57.800 kind of way that he's dirtured my own inherent competitive 0:44:57.840 --> 0:44:59.600 spirit to allow me to kind of grow into my 0:44:59.640 --> 0:45:01.719 own per And now I'm at the point where could 0:45:01.760 --> 0:45:05.959 I try and build what Dad built. Sure, good advocacy 0:45:06.640 --> 0:45:08.959 is about looking at the facts of your case, looking 0:45:09.000 --> 0:45:11.360 at the law, and coming up with a story that 0:45:11.480 --> 0:45:13.959 embraces a legal theme, of factual theme, and a moral 0:45:14.040 --> 0:45:17.280 theme that calls to justice and uses our trial system 0:45:17.360 --> 0:45:19.280 for what it's for, which is speaking truth to power. 0:45:19.880 --> 0:45:21.440 That's what I want to build. I want to come 0:45:21.480 --> 0:45:24.759 back to this is so important to American democracy that 0:45:25.600 --> 0:45:29.720 everywhere should have this level of education and everywhere should 0:45:29.760 --> 0:45:32.200 get this level of exposure. And we have one lawyer 0:45:32.360 --> 0:45:35.360 for every citizens in our state. So we are a 0:45:35.440 --> 0:45:39.200 small bar which means that my students when they graduate 0:45:39.280 --> 0:45:41.120 and they go out to practice, they need to be 0:45:41.239 --> 0:45:43.120 able to do a little bit of everything. They need 0:45:43.200 --> 0:45:44.920 to be a true main street lawyer in the way 0:45:44.960 --> 0:45:47.160 that the rest of the country maybe doesn't necessarily have. 0:45:47.640 --> 0:45:50.320 The South Dakotan walking down the street who gets busted 0:45:50.680 --> 0:45:53.680 for a d u I or a disorderly conduct deserves 0:45:53.719 --> 0:45:56.000 somebody who can go in and advocate at the same 0:45:56.080 --> 0:45:58.960 level as somebody who's in New York, or who's in California, 0:45:59.200 --> 0:46:02.640 or who's anywhere. We need to start recognizing that there 0:46:02.680 --> 0:46:04.680 are things in the middle of the country that are 0:46:04.719 --> 0:46:08.040 incredibly valuable. There might be that time when some good 0:46:08.080 --> 0:46:11.480 Midwestern common sense approach to something is going to actually 0:46:11.560 --> 0:46:14.359 do you a lot of favors. So with that, why 0:46:14.400 --> 0:46:16.680 don't we go ahead and start wrapping things up for tonight. 0:46:17.480 --> 0:46:19.200 I expect to see you all back here bright and 0:46:19.280 --> 0:46:22.640 early tomorrow morning. Not only experts people, can I talk 0:46:22.640 --> 0:46:24.040 to you at front real QUI. Other than that y'all 0:46:24.040 --> 0:46:27.520 are good. You don't please say pizza with you. Whatever 0:46:27.600 --> 0:46:34.799 tournament you guys are doing, it's called buffalo. So that's 0:46:34.800 --> 0:46:46.919 not all the experts law is about. Rules. I believe 0:46:46.920 --> 0:46:49.400 in rules, but more important than rules, it is something 0:46:50.200 --> 0:46:53.160 that is based on principles and values, and those are 0:46:53.280 --> 0:46:58.520 values of equal justice and fairness of process, and everything 0:46:58.560 --> 0:47:01.719 about that is found stating to me. And I love 0:47:01.800 --> 0:47:05.360 the idea that it's also about truth, truth finding and 0:47:05.440 --> 0:47:07.480 all the mechanisms that you use not only to get 0:47:07.800 --> 0:47:10.520 justice and fairness for people, but so the ultimate truth 0:47:10.600 --> 0:47:13.040 comes out. And I've always thought of it as a 0:47:13.080 --> 0:47:19.480 noble pursuit. I tell the young wars it's a fabulous calling, 0:47:20.160 --> 0:47:23.280 but you have to regard it as your calling. Tony 0:47:23.360 --> 0:47:27.399 Sarah is a self described radical lawyer. He even took 0:47:27.400 --> 0:47:31.400 a vow of poverty in the nineteen sixties. He's represented 0:47:31.520 --> 0:47:35.600 clients such as the Black Panthers and the Hell's Angels 0:47:36.320 --> 0:47:40.040 at though he is still practicing law and continues to 0:47:40.160 --> 0:47:43.640 send fear and loathing into the hearts of judges across 0:47:43.760 --> 0:47:48.160 the country. It's a fabulous mission that you're going to 0:47:48.239 --> 0:47:51.320 embark on, but you have to regard it as a mission. 0:47:51.880 --> 0:47:56.200 If you regard it as a job and that you're 0:47:56.320 --> 0:48:03.319 going to sure the interest mostly of corporations, then you're 0:48:03.400 --> 0:48:07.200 feeding into the status quo. But it's not really you 0:48:07.600 --> 0:48:10.160 is that really where you went to law school? Is 0:48:10.200 --> 0:48:12.520 that what you really want to do? Where do you 0:48:12.680 --> 0:48:40.040 want to improve our social and political securities? Okay, I'm 0:48:40.040 --> 0:48:45.839 gotta started. We're getting started. How's everybody done? I want 0:48:45.880 --> 0:48:48.600 to do two things real quick before we really get started. 0:48:49.600 --> 0:48:54.280 The first is that you know, while we're in law school, 0:48:55.320 --> 0:49:01.040 something's happened. It's just part of life, yeah, and we 0:49:01.160 --> 0:49:04.840 all need each other to get through these hard times. 0:49:06.000 --> 0:49:10.279 Christian Ramon's father died. It was not expected, which is 0:49:10.360 --> 0:49:13.279 why he's not here right now. He's still going to 0:49:13.360 --> 0:49:17.360 try to be here tomorrow. They're burying his father today. 0:49:19.440 --> 0:49:23.359 So if you know him, and if you don't know him, 0:49:23.560 --> 0:49:28.080 maybe we can get a card, a note, a reach 0:49:28.160 --> 0:49:31.560 out to him to let him know that he's not alone, 0:49:32.360 --> 0:49:34.200 that other people are thinking of him in his time 0:49:34.239 --> 0:49:38.480 of need. And if it's within you something that you do, 0:49:39.719 --> 0:49:43.719 maybe say a prayer for him and his family. And 0:49:43.840 --> 0:49:45.960 there's no doubt that these kind of events are going 0:49:46.000 --> 0:49:49.880 to happen to more of us. My mother passed away 0:49:51.120 --> 0:49:54.759 this year, just a few months ago, you know, and 0:49:55.040 --> 0:49:58.520 people rallied around me, and we've had things that happened. 0:49:58.560 --> 0:50:00.760 We've had babies that were born, and we rallied around 0:50:01.280 --> 0:50:04.520 each other for babies, the good stuff and the bad stuff. 0:50:05.239 --> 0:50:07.480 As we start to get to know each other better 0:50:07.640 --> 0:50:11.360 and better, it will become easier and easier to rally around. 0:50:12.239 --> 0:50:17.000 Sometimes things happened before we've had that jelling effect. Okay, 0:50:17.120 --> 0:50:20.960 so who did not see the video on cross examination? 0:50:21.880 --> 0:50:25.719 Now there's no direct that it happened. Yet, why are 0:50:25.760 --> 0:50:28.840 we going directly to a cross? We're gonna work on directs. 0:50:29.080 --> 0:50:33.600 Directs are harder, crosses are easier. Why our cross is easier? 0:50:33.719 --> 0:50:36.200 Someone that watched the video? Tell me why crosses are easier? 0:50:37.680 --> 0:50:40.600 Because you're so so only beginning yes or no? Andrews 0:50:40.840 --> 0:50:44.239 hopefully yes? Than you're telling the story. Yeah, what do 0:50:44.320 --> 0:50:49.880 I call that yes train? Right? Too? Right? That's the 0:50:49.960 --> 0:50:53.120 money train? Right, you get someone to say yes, that's 0:50:53.160 --> 0:50:55.680 the money train. That's what you want. You want to 0:50:55.760 --> 0:50:58.640 run away witness so you can slap them around and 0:50:58.719 --> 0:51:01.280 get them on your yes train. How do we control 0:51:01.360 --> 0:51:05.520 the witness? The question you're asking and what kind of 0:51:05.640 --> 0:51:10.520 questions are we asking? And the leading question is what 0:51:13.640 --> 0:51:21.160 is question? One fact? Single fact questions? What is the 0:51:21.320 --> 0:51:23.480 one thing that I want to make sure that I 0:51:23.560 --> 0:51:27.400 get out of every witness that I cross examle every 0:51:27.440 --> 0:51:34.120 witness story, which story? First story? My story? Which is 0:51:34.320 --> 0:51:40.239 my which is my theory of the case? How do 0:51:40.480 --> 0:51:46.320 I get the theory of my case through that witness? 0:51:46.920 --> 0:51:50.080 Bring your chairs, leave your notes, leave your pens, just yourselves. 0:51:50.200 --> 0:52:00.400 You can bring water. So I want my first share here. Now, 0:52:00.480 --> 0:52:03.040 this is your first time through, and we expect you're 0:52:03.040 --> 0:52:07.520 gonna make more mistakes than normal. It's okay. This is 0:52:07.560 --> 0:52:11.480 where you're allowed to make mistakes. This is our first 0:52:11.600 --> 0:52:16.520 step in cross examinations. They're going to make mistakes. We 0:52:16.560 --> 0:52:20.799 don't start yelling until the second time. Right the first time, 0:52:20.880 --> 0:52:27.160 It's easy, all stars and top load. I want to 0:52:27.200 --> 0:52:30.560 take you back to when you're interviewing Bobby see here 0:52:30.719 --> 0:52:35.239 from North Carolina? Where in North Carolina? Eastern North Carolina? Like? 0:52:35.320 --> 0:52:42.120 What city? And what's what's in snow hill? There's nothing there? Farms? Farmer, 0:52:43.000 --> 0:52:47.000 are you on a farm right now? Where are you? Like? 0:52:47.080 --> 0:52:50.560 What are we mimicking here? Trial? And a trial is 0:52:50.600 --> 0:52:54.000 in what kind of room? Is is that on a farm? 0:52:55.239 --> 0:52:57.920 You're not on a farm. You've got to get serious 0:52:58.200 --> 0:53:01.160 right now. You're a little mad at me, aren't you. Yeah, 0:53:01.560 --> 0:53:04.400 I'm glad. That's what I was trying to get from you. Okay, 0:53:05.000 --> 0:53:06.320 I want you to be a little mad at me. 0:53:06.719 --> 0:53:09.040 I want you not on the farm right now. I 0:53:09.160 --> 0:53:13.920 love country. There's a place for country right now. We're 0:53:13.960 --> 0:53:16.239 not ready for you to be country. I need you 0:53:16.320 --> 0:53:18.080 to be in a courtroom. So get mad at me. 0:53:18.880 --> 0:53:21.719 Get in the courtroom, get your head right, ask him 0:53:21.760 --> 0:53:26.560 those questions, Officer san Toppola. I want to take you 0:53:26.640 --> 0:53:30.120 back when you're an interview of Bobby. See Bobby c 0:53:30.360 --> 0:53:33.680 got an alert that his credit card would being used. Yeah, 0:53:33.760 --> 0:53:39.759 that's right at the zoo trip. Yes, it was. So 0:53:39.960 --> 0:53:46.440 your country is an advantage, right, It's a true advantage 0:53:46.760 --> 0:53:49.279 that you have. What were people like me? People love 0:53:49.360 --> 0:53:53.759 hearing your voice. My voice is common yours isn't right, 0:53:54.960 --> 0:53:57.960 but you gotta just it can't be I'm on the farm. 0:53:59.560 --> 0:54:02.680 We gotta find that balance where I get to be me. 0:54:04.400 --> 0:54:06.560 But I don't want you to think like I'm on 0:54:06.680 --> 0:54:11.200 the farm. I earned my right to be here, all right, cool, 0:54:11.320 --> 0:54:15.920 thank you? Alright, Well, he made fun of my accent, which, uh, 0:54:16.760 --> 0:54:18.560 which is funny now, but I felt like it was 0:54:18.640 --> 0:54:21.040 kind of a low blow at the time. Honestly, if 0:54:21.080 --> 0:54:23.640 he would have told me my cross examination was terrible, 0:54:23.719 --> 0:54:25.600 I would have been like, Okay, let me work on it. 0:54:26.560 --> 0:54:28.600 But yeah, he told me that, and it piss me 0:54:28.680 --> 0:54:31.319 off a little bit. I'm not gonna lie, actually a lot, 0:54:31.520 --> 0:54:34.000 but I mean it's true. He was like, yeah, I 0:54:34.080 --> 0:54:36.320 know you got a chip on your shoulder. Um, I 0:54:36.400 --> 0:54:38.960 can see it in your eyes. And that's true. And 0:54:39.280 --> 0:54:40.879 most of the time in my life, when I get 0:54:40.960 --> 0:54:44.080 piste off, when I get angry, I weren't harder. And 0:54:44.280 --> 0:54:45.840 that's why he was trying to bring out of me. 0:54:46.160 --> 0:54:50.880 And I respect him more. Now I want you to 0:54:50.960 --> 0:54:56.759 write five questions cross examining, leading questions. This is your 0:54:56.800 --> 0:55:01.160 first boyer into a fact powdern don't go deep into 0:55:01.239 --> 0:55:12.600 the weeds. One fact, five questions you have until every year, 0:55:12.719 --> 0:55:15.400 a j writes up a simple case packet for the 0:55:15.480 --> 0:55:19.320 students to argue. With this case in hand, they prepare 0:55:19.440 --> 0:55:21.800 for a short trial where they will have to do 0:55:22.000 --> 0:55:25.399 some of the most basic things a trial lawyer must 0:55:25.480 --> 0:55:30.280 know how to do. Introduce evidence into the record, impeach 0:55:30.560 --> 0:55:34.719 a witness, refresh their memory, and cross examine them. And 0:55:34.840 --> 0:55:39.200 that witness well, it'll be played to the Hilt by 0:55:39.280 --> 0:55:44.160 A J. So the story is about Bobby CE and 0:55:44.239 --> 0:55:47.520 Veronica J. And it's a real story to a certain point, 0:55:47.640 --> 0:55:49.920 and then there's parts of it that aren't true. I 0:55:50.080 --> 0:55:51.920 used it back when I was at Maryland, and then 0:55:52.160 --> 0:55:55.600 I adopted it to hear so that it incorporates local 0:55:56.200 --> 0:55:59.720 town lore, including a bar that I love called Barbara. 0:56:00.719 --> 0:56:03.560 So Bobby CE and Veronica J. Were at a party. 0:56:04.800 --> 0:56:07.560 Veronica wanted to leave the party. She crossed over Martin 0:56:07.640 --> 0:56:11.920 Luther King Boulevard near Camden Pub on Baltimore Street in 0:56:12.000 --> 0:56:17.719 Baltimore City. Two men acrost them with a gun, demands 0:56:17.920 --> 0:56:21.440 um their property. Veronica gives their phone and their purse. 0:56:21.760 --> 0:56:25.600 Bobby gives his wallet. The robbers did not take Bobby's 0:56:25.640 --> 0:56:30.080 phone because he had an analog phone. The robbers laughed 0:56:30.120 --> 0:56:33.239 at him and they ran off, And Bobby CE and 0:56:33.360 --> 0:56:36.680 Veronica J. We're so frightened by it that they never 0:56:36.800 --> 0:56:41.480 saw anyone that they couldn't tell you the person was 0:56:41.800 --> 0:56:46.080 a man or a woman or white, black, Hispanic Asian. 0:56:46.120 --> 0:56:48.360 They couldn't tell you anything about him. They were afraid. 0:56:48.480 --> 0:56:51.719 They were frozen in time. Two police officer to show up. 0:56:51.760 --> 0:56:54.520 Bobby gets a phone call from the bank says, your 0:56:54.600 --> 0:56:57.640 credit cards being used at a gas station. Police put 0:56:57.719 --> 0:56:58.840 him in the back of the car. They go to 0:56:58.920 --> 0:57:02.120 the gas station. Veronica yells, that's them, that's people that 0:57:02.239 --> 0:57:05.280 robbed me. Bobbys says, I don't know. I was too afraid. 0:57:05.320 --> 0:57:07.920 I don't know if it's them or it's not. Police 0:57:07.920 --> 0:57:10.680 officers go out talk to the guys and they were 0:57:10.960 --> 0:57:17.880 both arrested for the robbery. Maybe those of you that 0:57:17.960 --> 0:57:19.760 were having a little bit of a hard time will 0:57:19.800 --> 0:57:24.440 agree with rushing or skipping makes it hard. I make 0:57:24.520 --> 0:57:28.480 a mistake, So that's why you have to learn this 0:57:28.680 --> 0:57:33.080 like the back of your hand, all right. I asked 0:57:33.120 --> 0:57:38.320 Dennisis to do her five question cross in front of 0:57:38.400 --> 0:57:41.280 all of you. There's a lesson here that we're going 0:57:41.360 --> 0:57:47.600 to learn. So there's an error and a recovery. I 0:57:47.680 --> 0:57:51.280 want you to hear the error so that you can 0:57:51.400 --> 0:57:55.120 learn from it, not do it to yourselves. I'll explain 0:57:55.200 --> 0:58:00.520 it when it happens. We're good, John, you were called 0:58:00.520 --> 0:58:04.440 about a robbery. I was, yes, it involved two bigger 0:58:05.160 --> 0:58:10.600 that's correct. It did not mention the number of roberts, correct. 0:58:11.600 --> 0:58:16.320 It did not mention the gender of the robberts. That's correct. 0:58:17.360 --> 0:58:21.200 You arrested two men at a gas station. Yes, it 0:58:21.400 --> 0:58:26.680 was two men. So you arrested two men without having 0:58:26.840 --> 0:58:29.880 any underlying fact of the gender of the robbers. So, 0:58:30.000 --> 0:58:32.880 I mean, we had other evidence to suggest that the 0:58:32.960 --> 0:58:37.640 robbers were male, um, particularly the call um. Obviously he 0:58:37.720 --> 0:58:40.200 was able to identify eventually that the two men. Good 0:58:41.160 --> 0:58:43.160 got you got back what you wanted, right, all right? 0:58:43.320 --> 0:58:45.680 First I put her on a spot. So thank you, Jennis, 0:58:45.760 --> 0:58:51.240 just for doing that. Right. What was the question that 0:58:51.360 --> 0:58:55.800 you shouldn't have asked? He arrested two men without any description. 0:58:55.920 --> 0:58:59.120 So the question again, jennesss, So you arrested two men 0:59:00.160 --> 0:59:03.840 without having any underlying facts of the gender of the robbers. 0:59:04.240 --> 0:59:06.480 Now that sounds like a yes or no question, doesn't 0:59:06.520 --> 0:59:11.560 It doesn't. That's a yes or no question. But it's not. 0:59:13.160 --> 0:59:15.760 It's not a yes or no question. Say it again. 0:59:16.760 --> 0:59:23.560 So you arrested two men without any underlying fact, without 0:59:23.880 --> 0:59:30.480 any underlying facts. What does that give the witness that 0:59:30.680 --> 0:59:35.080 takes that yes no question and creates it into an 0:59:35.160 --> 0:59:41.000 opportunity for a narrative. It's the one question too many. 0:59:42.280 --> 0:59:44.880 It's trying to get the witness to make the argument 0:59:45.040 --> 0:59:50.920 for you. When do we argue? When do we argue clothes? 0:59:51.640 --> 0:59:57.080 We arguing clothes? Is the witness gonna argue for me? Now, 0:59:57.320 --> 1:00:00.960 the witness is never on my side on a US examination, 1:00:01.640 --> 1:00:05.160 I'm not going to help me. So this is genesis. 1:00:05.720 --> 1:00:08.080 I told him I grew up in a Mexican household 1:00:08.480 --> 1:00:11.680 and there was no sugarcoating. Ever. It was always very direct, 1:00:12.080 --> 1:00:13.280 you know. I would come out of my mom would 1:00:13.320 --> 1:00:16.080 say that shirt looks ugly. Go change. It was very 1:00:16.360 --> 1:00:18.440 that's wrong, fix it so here with a J. I 1:00:18.560 --> 1:00:20.480 really like that teaching style. That's how I grew up. 1:00:20.760 --> 1:00:23.360 I kind of feel home. It doesn't hurt my feelings. 1:00:25.280 --> 1:00:27.560 So if you do it wrong, it's gonna be an 1:00:27.640 --> 1:00:30.439 improper impeachment. Someone's gonna exect because you do it wrong. 1:00:30.800 --> 1:00:32.280 Now you got to go back and do it again. 1:00:32.840 --> 1:00:34.720 Now the judge is getting piste off of you, the 1:00:34.880 --> 1:00:37.240 jury is getting piste off of you. So that's how 1:00:37.280 --> 1:00:39.800 we're trying to be perfect right so that you don't 1:00:39.840 --> 1:00:43.040 have to do it again, so you don't get objected 1:00:43.120 --> 1:00:47.440 to on an improper or an imperfect impeachment showing up 1:00:47.640 --> 1:00:51.120 the council you have I always stand. I stand when 1:00:51.160 --> 1:00:54.080 I crossed the jam, and I stand when I addressed 1:00:54.160 --> 1:00:57.400 the court. I definitely stand when I addressed the jury. 1:00:58.240 --> 1:01:02.720 Your mind has to be show fast, so acute, so much. 1:01:02.840 --> 1:01:06.920 We call that you develop what you're gonna say right then. 1:01:07.480 --> 1:01:12.920 It's a spontaneity that creates the value. My god, I've 1:01:12.960 --> 1:01:17.880 seen lawyers read their cross examination. I've seen lawyers read 1:01:18.200 --> 1:01:23.040 their close saved without passion. That's not the way to 1:01:23.120 --> 1:01:27.400 do a young lawyer's you know, stand up, be vociferous, 1:01:27.960 --> 1:01:33.959 be independent, be spontaneous, be creative, fight, be in their face. 1:01:36.480 --> 1:01:39.480 But you should know your path, the way that you're 1:01:39.560 --> 1:01:43.080 going to go. The two three things that I want 1:01:43.200 --> 1:01:48.280 from this witness, you should know what those are. You're 1:01:48.280 --> 1:01:51.640 all going to court tomorrow. How ready are you going 1:01:51.720 --> 1:01:55.880 to be? You cannot pass this class if you do 1:01:56.000 --> 1:02:00.160 not enter a piece of evidence, impeach the witness, and 1:02:00.320 --> 1:02:04.080 refresh their memory. Those are the three things that you 1:02:04.400 --> 1:02:08.720 have to do. That's it. I want to hear your thinking, 1:02:08.840 --> 1:02:10.760 your thoughts, how you want to do it, how you 1:02:10.880 --> 1:02:14.200 put your case together. It has to be logical. You're 1:02:14.200 --> 1:02:17.720 gonna have your documents so that you can get to them. 1:02:18.360 --> 1:02:21.240 You can easily locate that document, so that you have 1:02:21.360 --> 1:02:23.600 a copy for you, a copy for the judge, a 1:02:23.680 --> 1:02:26.680 copy for the witness. You might have a spare copy 1:02:26.840 --> 1:02:30.080 in case coffee gets spilled on one by accident. And 1:02:30.160 --> 1:02:33.360 it's curious to see whether or not you are prepared 1:02:33.440 --> 1:02:39.600 for court, so you should be ready for trial. For 1:02:39.720 --> 1:02:42.600 the students, tonight will be a long one spent pressing 1:02:42.640 --> 1:02:45.800 their suits and rehearsing in front of the mirror for 1:02:45.960 --> 1:02:50.960 tomorrow it's judgment tank. I take it. You know what 1:02:51.040 --> 1:02:53.320 a rabbit hole looks like? Yes, you can never get out. 1:02:54.040 --> 1:03:00.919 And what's in the bottom of there? Nothing right, rabbit's living, 1:03:00.960 --> 1:03:03.200 the rabbit hole and the poop. When you're going down 1:03:03.280 --> 1:03:04.800 to the rabbit hole and you're going down to a 1:03:04.880 --> 1:03:12.800 barrel of boop, that's next time on Class Action. Class 1:03:12.800 --> 1:03:19.240 Action is a production of I Heart Radio and Sound Argument, created, produced, written, 1:03:19.400 --> 1:03:24.480 and edited by Kevin Huffman and Lisa Gray. Executive producers 1:03:24.720 --> 1:03:29.920 are Taylor Chacogne and Katrina Norvelle. Sound design, editing and 1:03:30.160 --> 1:03:34.720 mixing by Evan Tire and Taylor Chacogne. This episode had 1:03:34.720 --> 1:03:39.200 additional field production by Kristen Cabrera, Paul Ebson, Alfredo de 1:03:39.280 --> 1:03:44.760 la Garza and Malia Lukomski. Additional story production by Jennifer Swan, 1:03:45.160 --> 1:03:50.640 Kristin Cabrera, Jason Foster, and Wendy Nardi. For more podcasts 1:03:50.720 --> 1:03:53.959 from I heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, 1:03:54.320 --> 1:03:57.600 Apple podcast, or wherever you get your favorite shows.