1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: Paper Ghosts is a production of I Heart Radio. While 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: going through the pile of documents Lisa White's mother had 3 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: given to me, I ran across a newspaper article from 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: I had somehow not paid much attention to over the years. 5 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: The headline attack cases begin to surface. A description of 6 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: the alleged perp who had tried to abduct and sexually 7 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: assault several young girls and a high school teacher stood 8 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: out early twenties, five ft six inches tall, stocky, dark 9 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: hair and mustache, dark rimmed glasses. I've compared it to 10 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: a number of suspects that have been tied to these 11 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: cases and can say the composite sketch accompanying the article 12 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: is akin to a photograph of Bob Lurosa. I showed 13 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: the sketch to several of the people I've interviewed who 14 00:00:55,880 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: knew Bob personally back in the day. Unanimously all of 15 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: them agreed the sketch resembled Bob. I've been sharing some 16 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: of my findings with Bob Rossa's youngest son, Mo, who 17 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: was just nine months old when his mother was murdered. 18 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: Most seems convinced his dad was not responsible. He protects 19 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: his father in one way, and yet in another he's 20 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: honest about possibilities and evidence. Growing up, Most says he 21 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,199 Speaker 1: and his siblings had all left home by the age 22 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:33,559 Speaker 1: of sixteen, mostly because, in most view, they never saw 23 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: their father. Bob was never around through the years. He 24 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: just worked and you didn't see a lot of him. 25 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: I get home from school and he's sleeping. I go 26 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: to bed, he gets up and he goes to work. 27 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,639 Speaker 1: I asked more what his dad thought about the Vernon 28 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: Police Department reopening his mom's case in two thousand two, 29 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: when forensic scientists doctor Henry Lee became involved and went 30 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: into the row his old apartment in Vernon to test 31 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: for residual blood. How did he feel about that whole 32 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: thing in where they cut out the piece of floor 33 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 1: and everything. We we actually spoke about that, and he 34 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: just he was very calm about it. He said, well, 35 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: you know, they're not gonna find anything. He said, I 36 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: didn't do anything wrong to hurt your mother. There was 37 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,519 Speaker 1: such a miniscule amount of forensics found during the search, 38 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: no human blood or DNA. There just wasn't enough to 39 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,239 Speaker 1: bring Bob to trial. He was upset that my sister 40 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: would would do what he called a witch on on him. 41 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: My sister was three years old, and you know she 42 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: she claims she sees things vividly from the day they 43 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: were there, even my new details. She's she's got it 44 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: all down. Um, three year olds, aren't You couldn't do it. 45 00:02:55,200 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: I recently obtained a transcript dated September just after Stacy 46 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: LaRosa started talking about her mother to a psychologist. Stacy 47 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: talks about Daddy hitting mommy in the stomach, Mommy being asleep, 48 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: and Daddy putting Mommy in the bedroom. Then quote, Mommy 49 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: went shopping to the store by herself in the car. 50 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: Stacy has asked, did Daddy help Mommy into the car? 51 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: She answered yes, and me and Maurice and my older 52 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: brother were alone all day. A grand jury ultimately voted 53 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: not to indict Bob LaRosa. All of the evidence was circumstantial, 54 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: but throughout the years, Vernon police detectives kept on Bob 55 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: right up until the day he died. After defending his father, 56 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,119 Speaker 1: talking to me about how he and his dad went 57 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: fishing together and how great a dad Bob was to him, 58 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: I asked more if he could ever accept the fact, 59 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: if it was ever proven that his dad was a 60 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: very bad man, more hesitated. He thought about how to 61 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: respond than this. I heard about it every year on 62 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: the news, and I was like, you know, who really cares. 63 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: They don't know who did it, they'll never find who 64 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: did it. Let's just be quiet about it and it'll 65 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: go away. And then later on in life I decided, 66 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: you know, that's kind of the wrong attitude. I'm the 67 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: youngest person involved in it, and if I don't step 68 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: up and try to help figure it out and I die, 69 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: that's it. It goes away because nobody below me is 70 00:04:46,600 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: gonna care. Previously on paper Ghosts and of a year 71 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: old girl is riding her bicycle. She sees a car 72 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: pass her. She goes a bit further. All of a sudden, 73 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: a guy jumps out of the woods and drags her 74 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 1: off the bicycle and is trying to take her into 75 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 1: the woods. For me, it felt like years getting the answer, 76 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: just waiting, and it was right before my birthday, and 77 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: I just kept saying to myself, all I want for 78 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: my birthday is this to be found as Lisa. That's 79 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: all I wanted. Then they would say, but it's right 80 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: here in this report that you said that, and they're like, 81 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: they don't know if he was lying or really can't remember. 82 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: He said, it was hard to tell you that he 83 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: might just be a really good liar. My name is 84 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: and William Phelps. This is paper ghosts and talking to 85 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: dozens of people connected to these cases. I have only 86 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: one person left to interview, the witness. I'm told police 87 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: spoke to him about the cases as recently as June 88 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen. I'm also told that in the state 89 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 1: he moved to after leaving this area, there are two 90 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,239 Speaker 1: cases of missing girls nearby that he has been questioned about. 91 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: With regards to those cases, one major crimes detective told me, 92 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: I don't know about you, Phelps, but dead and missing girls. 93 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: Whenever I have moved, they don't follow me. I decided 94 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: the best way to introduce myself and get him talking 95 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: was in the form of a letter to give him 96 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 1: the opportunity to ponder what I want. I ended it 97 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: with a request for the witness to call me, adding 98 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: if I did not hear from him, I would call 99 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: in a few weeks. Oh, hi, been, that's me. My 100 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: name's Emi William Phelps. Call me Matthew. I sent you 101 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: a letter. A couple of weeks ago. Did you get it? Okay? 102 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: Brning canetic and yeah, what do you want? Well, I 103 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,359 Speaker 1: was just calling to chat a little bit about you 104 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: know what I'm doing. I mean, from what I hear you, 105 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: you knew these guys pretty well. You didn't know Bob 106 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: and Nathan. No. I knew Bobby he was my brother 107 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: in law. And Nathan I knew because he would related 108 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: to Bobby, But I didn't know him that good. That 109 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: was so interesting to me. I didn't know them that good. Really. Immediately, 110 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: the witness comes across hostile and impatient. The fact that 111 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: he tells me right off the bat that he doesn't 112 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: know Bob or Nathan LaRosa is actually astonishing because this 113 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: is factionally untrue. But look, I go along with it. 114 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: What I'm doing is a podcast, So I just wanted 115 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: to make sure you had your opportunity to speak. Oh yeah, yeah, 116 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: but I'm done talking. Like I told the cops when 117 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: I gave my deposition here two freaking days I had 118 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: there was four cops come up, investigators. It was actually 119 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: just three cops. And when he refers to deposition, he 120 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: means interview. They kept saying, well, did you kill I 121 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: can look for the last fucking time. I didn't kill anybody, 122 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: I didn't hurt anybody. I don't know what's going on 123 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: with all his ship. I wasn't friends with Robert LaRosa 124 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: or Nathan LaRosa or any of them. Is there anything 125 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: you can tell me about you know those guys that time? 126 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: I mean everything I'm looking at is pointing like to 127 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: Bob Larrossa as a guy who probably killed his wife 128 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: but maybe also involved in some other disappearances in the area. 129 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 1: I knew him as a brother in law. We hung 130 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: out when we had functions at the house. Other than that, 131 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: I didn't want nothing to do with him when I 132 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: got mad when we moved. When I bought my house, 133 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: I separated myself from all of old people, and my 134 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,719 Speaker 1: wife kept in contact with Bobby. Why I don't know 135 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: your ex your ex wife and that ex wife would 136 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: be and Countier, who you've heard in previous episodes. She's 137 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: one of Susan Rosa's sisters and alleged the witness was 138 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: violent during their marriage. She claimed eadily for days at 139 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: a time, with no explanation of where he went. The witness, 140 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: in turn, claims the same about Anne. I was in 141 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: the hospital a lot of when a lot of this 142 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: ship was going on, and then I was in a wheelchair. No, 143 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: all she has to do is think back on what 144 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 1: was going on and where the hell she was all 145 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: those nights that she took off and I was babyshitting, 146 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: I was watching our kids. Oh, I'm going over here 147 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: to see a friend of mine. All that hospitals stuff, 148 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: the wheelchair and going out. There is zero corroborating evidence 149 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: I could find to support any of it. In fact, 150 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: all I have are people telling me the exact opposite. 151 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: You know, they ought to check my ex wife. She 152 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: never got along with her sister whatsoever, And I mean 153 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 1: she hated her to a fucking passion. And to turn 154 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: around and say I did this. No, it seemed to 155 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: me as we got into it that the witness wanted 156 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,719 Speaker 1: to push any attention away from his connection to the 157 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: le Ross. It's important to say that the witness has 158 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: never been charged with the crime connected to any of 159 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: these cases. Yes, he's injected himself into the narrative. Yes, 160 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: police have questioned him multiple times. But the guy is 161 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: still clearly upset because he believes Tina rose So, the 162 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: niece of Irene l Rosa, told police he mentioned bodies 163 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: and water wells up at Crystal Lake. And here next 164 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 1: he speaks directly about Tina. Boy, that girl's got a 165 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: hell of an imagination. She hangs around and and all 166 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: lott people. And uh. Then she grad to say, I 167 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: was saying all kinds of shit about her, her aunt 168 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: or whatever it is. And I said, no, that ain't 169 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: that it Wasn't said yeah, I think also, and I 170 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 1: said I'm I said, yeah, that's one of the reasons 171 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: I moved away. It's faint, but you can hear in 172 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: the background the witnesses second wife kind of reminding him 173 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: what to say, not for nothing, but he comes off 174 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 1: as if barely knowing Tina, despite the fact that they've 175 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: spoken a number of times at length about Irene LaRosa 176 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: and location of certain water wells. And I've heard two 177 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: voicemails he has left on Tina's phone, both of which 178 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 1: prove that he owes her very well. Then that last 179 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: call they had in fact being monitored by police, which 180 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: tipped them off to dig up a spot on the 181 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: window's property. The problem here is that when you have 182 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: a person of interest like the witness per se, you 183 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: want to be careful about showing your cards. But Tina 184 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: frequently shares her thoughts and unverified claims all over Facebook, 185 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: and you can imagine how that's going to make someone 186 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: like the witness feel. She was bringing up wells all 187 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: the time, and she said, where's the wells? I said, 188 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 1: when I was a kid, there were some wells out 189 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: in the woods and all that. I said, that's all 190 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: I can tell you. I think you're gonna have to 191 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: go look for him. And she kept saying all kinds 192 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:42,959 Speaker 1: of ship that I was telling her about the well 193 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: and like I told the cops, I said, no, I 194 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: never said that. Yeah. So that voice in the background 195 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: mentioned something about money, and the witness confirms who is 196 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,079 Speaker 1: advising him on the call, Like my wife said, this 197 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: does money involved, then they'll do anything to convict anybody, 198 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,319 Speaker 1: and they don't give a ship if the person is 199 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: innocent or not. What he's referring to is the hundred 200 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: and fifty thousand dollar reward the town County State's Attorney's 201 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: office offered for any information leading to an arrest or 202 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: location of a body in the disappearances. That said, the 203 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: witness makes a point. Money it changes things for people. 204 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: I also read that Do you knew Irene LaRosa a 205 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: little bit? Right? Yeah? Do you think she's from what 206 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: I'm hearing other people telling me? She was nothing but 207 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: a goddamn slut? Irene? Who's who's saying that? Different people 208 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: would call me up from Connecticut and say, hey, did 209 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: you hear about Irene? And you know she uh known 210 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: as a slut? I even own I took her to 211 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 1: bed n and he said that's all she does is 212 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: jumping bed with this guy or that guy. I said no, 213 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: I said, I don't want to know anything about anybody 214 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: down there. Do you think Irene is missing? I don't know. 215 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: They said she was, Yeah, that the missing person report 216 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: was just filed in two thousand sixteen. I mean according 217 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: to the report she went missing in Well, if they 218 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: can't find her, she is missing. Right. That subtle laugh 219 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: he utters can be construed two ways. One he knows 220 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: or two he's being facetious. It's how he says if 221 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: they can't find her. That bothers me. And what's clear 222 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: as we get into it further, the witness is not stupid. 223 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: I need to explain a bit of context here. The 224 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: state police, many of whom I know, have stayed at 225 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: arm's length during my investigations. They speak to me. I 226 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: believe they respect me. I've provided them with tips since 227 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen, but at the same time, they share 228 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: nothing with me. I do get it, but things haven't 229 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: been easy since the newest detective on the cases took 230 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: over about two years ago. Now. I first met her 231 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: during a memorial service for Jane's pocket. We spoke, I 232 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: handed her my card. I told her to give me 233 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: a call. I had lots of information. She never called. 234 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: She's aware of what I've been doing, but it's basically 235 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: been radial silence on her end. That is until I 236 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: emailed her to let her know I had spoken with 237 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: the witness. She emailed me back within minutes and asked 238 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: if I could meet with her immediately. That alone tells 239 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: me how important the witness and what he has to 240 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: say is. In particular, when you read between the lines 241 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: of his responses, you were in Vietnam right? What years 242 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: did you were you in Vietnam? Ah Chef, A long while, 243 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: but I mean when all this ship was going on, 244 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: That's where I was. That would have put him in 245 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: Vietnam sometime between nineteen to nine. Impossible for him not 246 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: to know the dates, and even more impossible for him 247 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: to have been in Vietnam in nineteen seventy five. When 248 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: Susan LaRosa went missing. He brings up Bob l Rossa again. 249 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: I see him a couple of times after I got out. 250 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: That was it. Do you remember if Bob drove a 251 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: station wagon? I don't know if he drew the station 252 00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: WAGONA not. That's silence before he answers. It makes me wonder, 253 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: do you think Bob Larros is a guy who's capable 254 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: of killing his wife? Oh? Yeah. The other thing, I 255 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: did you know if Bob worked for the Talent School 256 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: System at all? No, I worked for the Tallenge School System. 257 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: Oh you like a janitor or maintenance or something, jit 258 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 1: or whatever. If you recall Janic's pockets, medical records from 259 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: school went missing before she disappeared. Several sources have told 260 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: me the witness worked for the Talent School System, but 261 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 1: I needed to verify it for myself. Doesn't mean he 262 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: swiped those records. It only means he had the opportunity. 263 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,360 Speaker 1: I also heard Bob was like a scrap metal guy. 264 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: He just drove around collecting scrap metal or something. Yeah, 265 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: and what he couldn't find a stole. I get a 266 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: sense the witnesses carefully answering me, thinking long and hard 267 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: about what he is saying. For a guy who told 268 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,439 Speaker 1: me when we first got going that he didn't know 269 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: much about any of this and didn't even really know 270 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: Bob Rosa, he certainly knows specific details. Listen to how 271 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 1: he then interrupts my question with an answer. And I 272 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: also read in a report that Bernardette came over and 273 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: she clecked up the blood, and that, yeah, yeah, cleaned 274 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 1: up the bloods longer to tell, you know, the burning police, 275 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: not the ones they got nowadays, because the two of 276 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: them come up here and they were nice cops, and 277 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: the one back in the day, they were crooked as hell. 278 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 1: And Bobby Larrosa would bring in prostitutes and everything, drugs 279 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: and all that ship right into the station and very 280 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: seldom did he ever get a ticket. And I mean 281 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: to say, is he'd be going down the road in 282 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: a twenty five on our own, uh, doing sixty, and 283 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: you think, and there's burning cops, You think they gotta 284 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: give me to get dope? They put your head down. 285 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: Did do you know if Bob hung out at that 286 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: Eaglue restaurant. I don't know. I couldn't tell you say 287 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: like I said, I didn't hang around him. Everybody says 288 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: I hung around him. We jumped around, went drinking, and 289 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: I didn't have a bunch of bullshit. The witness goes 290 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: on to tell me he only has one lung left, 291 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 1: that cancer has taken the other from him, and he 292 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: now has tumors all over the remaining lung. Do you 293 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: still smoke? No? And I've had I want to say 294 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: two and fifty maybe three taken off my chest. Remember 295 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: that memory trigger from Stacy LaRosa, Bob and Susan's daughter 296 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: the cherry tobacco smoke. The conversation offered me the opportunity 297 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: to now get into that did you ever smoke? I asked, 298 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: smoked or what? Thirty years ago? So regrets? And they 299 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:03,679 Speaker 1: checked me out and they said it ain't from smoking. 300 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 1: They said it's that agent Orange. I have to admit 301 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: I'm rather surprised the witness has stayed on the phone 302 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,719 Speaker 1: with me this long. Then again, it was because of 303 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: his lengthy phone calls with Tina that prompted the police 304 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: to get the ball rolling in my investigation. After all 305 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 1: these years of staying quiet. You have to wonder why 306 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: he's so willing to talk now, and if maybe he 307 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: had injected himself into these cases because he felt he 308 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: had to. And as we get started talking again, he 309 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: makes an important point. You're gonna find somebody that's gonna 310 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: say all kinds I should about me. I'm up here 311 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: and I'm not down there, because uh, I can't defend 312 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: myself with that person. The minute they say it, well, 313 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: I mean, after it said, it's out there, so it's 314 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 1: going to travel. You tell me something that's good that 315 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: travels fast. It doesn't if it's bad, it travels like wildfire. 316 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,360 Speaker 1: I mean, what would you say to those people who 317 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: say that you were involved in Irene and the girls 318 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,120 Speaker 1: and helping Bob and everything. I already told you that 319 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: I had nothing to do with any of them. It's 320 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: easy to point the finger and say he did it 321 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: or she did it, or they did it. But to 322 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: go down and prove me or something else, right, right, right? 323 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,239 Speaker 1: I mean, that's why I'm calling you, That's why I'm 324 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,199 Speaker 1: giving the opportunity to and and I told you what 325 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: I know, which ain't very much. And uh, like I said, 326 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,199 Speaker 1: I didn't hurt nobody. I didn't kill anybody, and I 327 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,919 Speaker 1: didn't kidnap anybody. It's interesting to me that the witness 328 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: brings in kidnapping. I mean kidnapping had never been raised 329 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,919 Speaker 1: in relation to any of these cases. I never helped 330 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: anybody do anything against any of the girls. That's missing. 331 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: My goal was to begin a conversation and keep the 332 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 1: channels open. He seemed like he had reached his daily 333 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: limit of talking. I mentioned how I'd like to call 334 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: back soon once I learned more information. He told me 335 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: to do whatever I wanted. That's all I got to 336 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: say in the matter. Right now. Since we last spoke, 337 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: the witness has gone quiet. I wound up calling him 338 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: back no fewer than five times over the course of 339 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: the next several months. He never took one call or 340 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: responded to a voicemail. I was told by law enforcement 341 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: that he said he was done talking to anyone. He 342 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: said what he needed to say, and it's just not 343 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: enough to locate a body. So it's time I move 344 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: on from him and do the one thing I know 345 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: I and do. In the final episode of Paper Ghosts, 346 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: I'm scared that they'll find something, and then I'm scared 347 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: that they won't find something. So you know, I'm all 348 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: over the place. We're looking for UM. Possibly the dogs 349 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: pacing to slow down, head hooks one way or the other. UM. 350 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: Usually they slow They slow down and get more intense. 351 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 1: Memories fade, people die, people move away, But we don't 352 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 1: give up. You know, we're still hoping UM for that breakthrough. 353 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: It's gonna give us the answers we've been looking for 354 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: for many, many years. Paper Ghosts is written and executive 355 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: produced by me and William Phelps, with help from producer 356 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: Christina Everett and sound editing by Pete Cardy from Backroom Audio. 357 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: A special thanks to Abu Safar and Will Pearson from 358 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. The series theme number four four two 359 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 1: is written and performed by Tom Mooney and Thomas Phelps. 360 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for My Heart Radio, visit the I 361 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 362 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.