1
00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:07,640
Speaker 1: My name is Eva Longoria and I am and welcome

2
00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:12,360
Speaker 1: to Hungry for History, a podcast that explores our past

3
00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,120
Speaker 1: and present through food. On every episode, we'll talk about

4
00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,840
Speaker 1: the history of some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, and beverages.

5
00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:27,640
Speaker 1: So make yourself at home, even Rachel, can you hear

6
00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:37,840
Speaker 1: my hips? I know chips, some chips, we have some salsas.

7
00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:40,400
Speaker 1: I have a little I have a little tikilita here

8
00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,919
Speaker 1: to do you see my little shatkas. It's a chingana.

9
00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:49,279
Speaker 1: I thought i'd serve just to to to tout your

10
00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:54,760
Speaker 1: successive flaming heart. Thank you. Speaking of g speaking of cheam,

11
00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,520
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. I don't know if I anything makes

12
00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,560
Speaker 1: me happier than than chips and salza. It is one

13
00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,360
Speaker 1: of the best things in the world. So of course

14
00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,600
Speaker 1: we had to do an episode on Chile's and salsas,

15
00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:14,280
Speaker 1: on cheless and salsas, chiles and salas and mole but

16
00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,120
Speaker 1: a few things are better than chips in salsa. I

17
00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,600
Speaker 1: totally agree. And we have a couple of salzas in

18
00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:25,440
Speaker 1: front of us that I thought, yeah, we should taste. Yes,

19
00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,240
Speaker 1: you made these, so I made I thought, because there

20
00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,600
Speaker 1: are so many different varieties so many different types of

21
00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:36,080
Speaker 1: salsas with raw chile cooked dry chile. So I have

22
00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:43,080
Speaker 1: two salzas. The green salza is ra serrano with tomato

23
00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,800
Speaker 1: celantro is just raw and just is that the green one?

24
00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:48,840
Speaker 1: It's the green one. It's just raw. It's just the

25
00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,760
Speaker 1: raw ingredients, just put in the blender and should we

26
00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:57,320
Speaker 1: taste it? Yeah? Now is your philosophy a dipping salza

27
00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:02,800
Speaker 1: for chips and salsa different than salsa for inchiladas or tackles.

28
00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:08,920
Speaker 1: It depends. This green salza I would put on like

29
00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:14,040
Speaker 1: a really charred skirt steak. Oh my god, that's hot,

30
00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:22,160
Speaker 1: did you And like, I like it really spicy. I

31
00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,280
Speaker 1: love it too. This is my This is a perfect level.

32
00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,200
Speaker 1: I think it's really good. I mean, if I were

33
00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:30,919
Speaker 1: making anchilada susas, I would probably cook the cook the sauce,

34
00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:35,079
Speaker 1: you know, like roast dry roast the serrano and the onion.

35
00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,000
Speaker 1: This was just all raw. But I love a really nice,

36
00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,120
Speaker 1: raw fresh saltsa that has a little kick to it. No,

37
00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,480
Speaker 1: but this is also what you're saying, which is like

38
00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,160
Speaker 1: a fresh susa which you can taste it's not cooked.

39
00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,440
Speaker 1: Is great for a restaurant style. A really fresh raw salsa.

40
00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,520
Speaker 1: And when you when you roast everything like I do

41
00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,840
Speaker 1: for my salsas, it has a different it's like super complex.

42
00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,880
Speaker 1: It has a different, different profile. But this one's great.

43
00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,960
Speaker 1: And also the color is so vibrant. It's like such

44
00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,560
Speaker 1: a beautiful bright green color. When you cook it, it's

45
00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,960
Speaker 1: it loses that oo a little bit. But I have

46
00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:15,600
Speaker 1: a beautiful Michael Mato recipe online on my on my

47
00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,000
Speaker 1: Instagram if anybody wants to go get it, and I

48
00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,120
Speaker 1: show the difference between when I blend it and then

49
00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,440
Speaker 1: I cook it, and it's like almost brown green once

50
00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,959
Speaker 1: it's cooked, and the bright green is so pretty. But

51
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:29,520
Speaker 1: you can see whenever you people go, how do you

52
00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,320
Speaker 1: know when it's done. I'm like, you'll see it changes color. Yeah, okay,

53
00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,720
Speaker 1: what's the next one? And the next one is a

54
00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,200
Speaker 1: red sid sack And this is this one's pretty spicy.

55
00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,800
Speaker 1: This is dried chile as. I use dried arbol and wahiyo,

56
00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,680
Speaker 1: oh my god. I roasted those with a little bit

57
00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:47,720
Speaker 1: of garlic and then put those in the blender and

58
00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,360
Speaker 1: cooked it with a little bit of oil. I can

59
00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,480
Speaker 1: see the olive oil. Yeah, oh that has a kick.

60
00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:00,160
Speaker 1: So the difference between Chile for me and Serrano, it's

61
00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,280
Speaker 1: like cheeta. The aim is like a slap in the face.

62
00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,520
Speaker 1: It like slaps your mouth. It's like a little more

63
00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,080
Speaker 1: aggressive than the said animal. I'm not saying it's hotter,

64
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,920
Speaker 1: it's like it's different. It's a little more like it

65
00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,000
Speaker 1: punches you in a different way. I feel like this.

66
00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,200
Speaker 1: I feel it. It's funny because when I first made

67
00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,520
Speaker 1: it it was a lot spicier, and right now it's

68
00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,880
Speaker 1: like a slow burn. I feel it in the back

69
00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:21,800
Speaker 1: of my throat, whereas the other one I feel it

70
00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,280
Speaker 1: more in my tongue. Yeah, it's hot, it's really hot,

71
00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,640
Speaker 1: but you can taste it. It's more. It's super smoky.

72
00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,320
Speaker 1: I mean, just with the dried chilas on the skillet.

73
00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:36,080
Speaker 1: And this is really nice. Um. This is also great

74
00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,560
Speaker 1: with chips. I like this sauce. This is great with

75
00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,320
Speaker 1: and chiladas if you want to really hot and chilada.

76
00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,520
Speaker 1: But um, just with chips. If this is warm, I'd

77
00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,200
Speaker 1: like it a lot because it's cloth. It's nice to

78
00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:51,640
Speaker 1: have a litttle warmth. But Suld done this at the

79
00:04:51,800 --> 00:05:03,280
Speaker 1: end of the podcast. Mexico has a huge history of

80
00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:08,080
Speaker 1: chiless no huge, huge, huge cheese. History of Chiles and

81
00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,360
Speaker 1: Mexico has more chi less than any other country, but

82
00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,400
Speaker 1: all chi less made their way to the rest of

83
00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,839
Speaker 1: the world from Mexico. Now, what about the Asian Chiless

84
00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:23,440
Speaker 1: They were all originally from Mexico, all of them, even

85
00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,479
Speaker 1: if its the Thai Chile, the Thai Chile came from

86
00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:32,200
Speaker 1: a Mexican Chile. Wow, I didn't know that. Even like

87
00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,520
Speaker 1: Paprika and Hungary, or the bad On peppers in Spain,

88
00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,000
Speaker 1: or the Thai Chiles that are that are super spicy,

89
00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,960
Speaker 1: everything was from Mexico and with colonization, made their way

90
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,440
Speaker 1: to different parts of the world. I did not know that.

91
00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,400
Speaker 1: I did not know that. So did did Chile have

92
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,520
Speaker 1: a goddess like it? Was it like the corn god?

93
00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:53,599
Speaker 1: Was it worshiped just like they? Did it have a

94
00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,600
Speaker 1: god in Prehispanic Mexico? It did. There was a goddess.

95
00:05:58,120 --> 00:05:59,800
Speaker 1: And let me see if I could pronounce your name.

96
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:07,240
Speaker 1: The goddess. Her name was Patawaki see watt Itchi sintly.

97
00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:13,400
Speaker 1: She was also known as senor So, the Senora of

98
00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,560
Speaker 1: the Little Red Chile. She was the sister of kla Look,

99
00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,599
Speaker 1: the god of Rain, and Chico the goddess of agriculture.

100
00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:25,599
Speaker 1: Um so she's the sister of rain and agriculture, which,

101
00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:27,919
Speaker 1: just in and of itself, tells us that this was

102
00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,760
Speaker 1: an important goddess. And then when you when they would

103
00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:38,599
Speaker 1: fast for religious reasons, fasting entailed abstaining from Chile and salt.

104
00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:40,520
Speaker 1: I love that, Like, that's why I should give up

105
00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:46,000
Speaker 1: for land. Is like Chile instead of wine, Chile instead

106
00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,080
Speaker 1: of wine. Okay, I'm gonna give up Chile because in

107
00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,160
Speaker 1: pre Hispanic Mexico that's what you did when you fasted,

108
00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:56,480
Speaker 1: abstain from Chile, which is so interesting because that was penance.

109
00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,640
Speaker 1: Goes to show how important it was not having salt

110
00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:02,640
Speaker 1: in your diet. I mean, not having salt in the

111
00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:08,839
Speaker 1: diet is pretty horrible, but abstaining from that was pettis.

112
00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,600
Speaker 1: So it shows you just how important it was in

113
00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,080
Speaker 1: the Prehistanic diet, and it's still so important in the

114
00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,760
Speaker 1: Mexican diet. Well, I knew Chile was from Mexico, like

115
00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:18,680
Speaker 1: I knew Chile was from Mexico, but I always thought

116
00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:22,400
Speaker 1: Asia had their own set of Chiles. So that's very interesting.

117
00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,120
Speaker 1: But I do know Mexico is the world's main exporter

118
00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:30,920
Speaker 1: of Chiles with over one million tons exporting annually, and

119
00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,960
Speaker 1: Mexico has the most variety of chiless. That's not surprising exactly,

120
00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,120
Speaker 1: but it's what it's so interesting to me. It's like, yes,

121
00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,360
Speaker 1: you know, Asia has different kinds of Chiles, and they

122
00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,160
Speaker 1: are different than the kinds that Mexico has, but that's

123
00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,400
Speaker 1: just because you know, they've they've been cultivated and they've

124
00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,040
Speaker 1: created their own chi list based on whether they want

125
00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,280
Speaker 1: something a little more spicy or a little bit sweeter.

126
00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,760
Speaker 1: But the original Chiles made their way their post conquest

127
00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,760
Speaker 1: with us. Because this spicy talk is just getting started

128
00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:19,280
Speaker 1: more after the break. The original birthplace of chiless is

129
00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:25,120
Speaker 1: actually Bolivia, not Mexico, but Bolivia, and eventually they were

130
00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,960
Speaker 1: nobody really knows how, but probably by birds exactly. They

131
00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,439
Speaker 1: made their way to Mexico, but Mexico. They've been domesticated

132
00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,319
Speaker 1: in Mexico for about eight thousand years. You know, so

133
00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,240
Speaker 1: two las are Mexican. I think you can say, I

134
00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,679
Speaker 1: think you've probably covered this in one of your art

135
00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,360
Speaker 1: byte classes of seeing the Chile in art like when

136
00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,640
Speaker 1: it was depicted, or even like with archaeologists, But it

137
00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,760
Speaker 1: feels like historically we've dismissed chiles from the diet because

138
00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,520
Speaker 1: they don't really have calories. They're not a protein, They're

139
00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,640
Speaker 1: not really a fruit or vegetable that provides any many

140
00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,920
Speaker 1: substance of value to your body. Did you find that

141
00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,199
Speaker 1: an art that it was left out longer than it

142
00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,080
Speaker 1: should have been or that's a good question. I never

143
00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,720
Speaker 1: really thought about that. I mean, I know that there

144
00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,800
Speaker 1: are these really interesting eighteenth century paintings, the Casta paintings

145
00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,920
Speaker 1: that really depict the different casts of society that were

146
00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,360
Speaker 1: super popular in Mexico during this time. The basically racial

147
00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,240
Speaker 1: profiling is what those paintings are, and the lower the

148
00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,000
Speaker 1: classes that are depicted in the paintings. Sometimes you actually

149
00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,000
Speaker 1: see chiles and other native foods in those paintings. So

150
00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:38,240
Speaker 1: what makes it chili spicy? Like physically, what makes it

151
00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,440
Speaker 1: spicy the seeds. So actually there's something in the chiles

152
00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,800
Speaker 1: called capsation, and this is a chemical. It's an alkaloid,

153
00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,280
Speaker 1: you know, when you open up a chili. And this

154
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,360
Speaker 1: is something that when I was reading about this, and

155
00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:51,800
Speaker 1: I never really put two and two together. Really, I

156
00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,199
Speaker 1: never really thought about it. When you cut it chile open,

157
00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:56,520
Speaker 1: because the chila is a fruit it's actually a berry,

158
00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,520
Speaker 1: but when you cut it, chile opens, it's hollow inside.

159
00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,040
Speaker 1: It doesn't have any pulp. But you see it doesn't

160
00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:03,880
Speaker 1: have meat. Yeah, it doesn't have meat. But you see

161
00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,600
Speaker 1: those little membranides, those a little white membrandes that attached

162
00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,240
Speaker 1: those membranides are what have the keptation. And the keptation

163
00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,640
Speaker 1: is the chemical. It's an alkaloid, and it doesn't have

164
00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,400
Speaker 1: any color, it doesn't have any odor, but this is

165
00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:21,360
Speaker 1: what gives the chile its heat and its taste, and

166
00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:26,320
Speaker 1: that chemical stimulates the body in the tongue or the

167
00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:31,880
Speaker 1: skin that normally only feels pain exactly exactly, and this

168
00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,760
Speaker 1: is what it's I find so interesting. Like the first

169
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,640
Speaker 1: bite of the chile effects the tongue and the brain

170
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,360
Speaker 1: is telling you, oh my god, my tongue hurts, and

171
00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,959
Speaker 1: by doing that, it releases endorphins, which are of course,

172
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,760
Speaker 1: you know, the endorphins are good. May it feel good?

173
00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,920
Speaker 1: They give the FILLI body with adrenaline, and so that

174
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,600
Speaker 1: acts as a natural pain killer. So your brain is

175
00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:55,679
Speaker 1: telling you, oh my god, this hurts, but it also

176
00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,000
Speaker 1: it feels good. So that's why you can't stop eating

177
00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,520
Speaker 1: the chiles. You're burning your mouth is water. That's why

178
00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,920
Speaker 1: I can't stop. That's why we can't stop eating flaming

179
00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:07,240
Speaker 1: hot cheetos because it's so good, but it burns so bad,

180
00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,240
Speaker 1: it hurts so bad, but you can't get enough. Yeah,

181
00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,080
Speaker 1: when you rank the hotness of a chili, is that

182
00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:17,520
Speaker 1: technically how much of that compound it has exactly? And

183
00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,439
Speaker 1: even you know the impre colonial Mexico, the Aztecs used

184
00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:25,560
Speaker 1: to have different grades of chiles from spicy or not spicy.

185
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:31,240
Speaker 1: But now we have this scale called the Scoville scale,

186
00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:35,199
Speaker 1: and this tells you sort of the spiciness of the chile.

187
00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:40,760
Speaker 1: Oh my god, what is the Scoville heat unit. This

188
00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:44,760
Speaker 1: is the method, a scientific method that rates the strength

189
00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,080
Speaker 1: of peppers, and it was devised in nineteen twelve by

190
00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:51,400
Speaker 1: an American pharmacist named Wilbur Scoville, sort of genius. The

191
00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,600
Speaker 1: way that he did this, so he takes the chiless,

192
00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,240
Speaker 1: the concentrated chiless, dilutes them in water and sugar, and

193
00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,800
Speaker 1: the number of times needed to loot the solution until

194
00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:05,000
Speaker 1: there's no trace of flavor indicates the degree of heat.

195
00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,839
Speaker 1: The bell pepper is zero. The avanos that are the

196
00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,680
Speaker 1: spiciest ones from Mexico land somewhere between one hundred to

197
00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,559
Speaker 1: three hundred and fifty thousand, and this Carolina Reaper that

198
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:20,600
Speaker 1: I've never tasted is two point two million on this scale. Wow.

199
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,040
Speaker 1: So it's the hottest chili in the world. It's the

200
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,240
Speaker 1: hottest chili in the world. Where does the word chile

201
00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:31,200
Speaker 1: or pepper come from. Is there a native word for it? Yes,

202
00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,360
Speaker 1: for Chili, there's a native word for chiless. So Chile

203
00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,400
Speaker 1: comes from the now, while chili, right, So this is

204
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,800
Speaker 1: sort of a direct, you know, obvious, you know connection.

205
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:44,520
Speaker 1: But the word pepper comes from Columbus. Christopher Columbus when

206
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:48,160
Speaker 1: he landed in the Caribbean encountered chiless on his first voyage,

207
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,960
Speaker 1: and he called them peppers of the Indies. You know.

208
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,199
Speaker 1: He was looking for a trade route for peppers and

209
00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,679
Speaker 1: they found these cheerless so he called them peppers, even

210
00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:01,320
Speaker 1: though they're not peppers. They're not but pchanically related to

211
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,400
Speaker 1: pepper corns. But this is where the word pepper comes from.

212
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,319
Speaker 1: So we have pepper, we have the word chile comes

213
00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,920
Speaker 1: from the now Chili, and then in South America, like

214
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:17,160
Speaker 1: in Peru and also in the Caribbean, they called chiles

215
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,959
Speaker 1: ahis and this is from a Taino word that they

216
00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:25,160
Speaker 1: used to call the pepper's ashi um in Santo l Amingo.

217
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:27,839
Speaker 1: And this is where the word ahi comes from. So

218
00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,440
Speaker 1: basically those are the three. Where does the word bca

219
00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:35,520
Speaker 1: come from? That I'm but I pikas means it. If

220
00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:42,200
Speaker 1: something becas, it means it. But what I know, vica,

221
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,800
Speaker 1: But Gina's were also used for many things. It wasn't

222
00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,280
Speaker 1: just to be eaten or seasoning of food. It was

223
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,840
Speaker 1: used as a weapon as well. Didn't the Aztecs burn

224
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:56,000
Speaker 1: it to create barriers for enemies and stuff like that. Yeah,

225
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,719
Speaker 1: they were use it basically as chemical warfare, like a

226
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,319
Speaker 1: few bacon. And there's an interesting the codex called the

227
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,920
Speaker 1: Codex Mendoza, and you see they would have they would

228
00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,440
Speaker 1: they would punish misbehaving children by seating them in front

229
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,120
Speaker 1: of burning cheeless. Oh my god, that seems very extreme.

230
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:16,640
Speaker 1: It seems horrible. Burning cheeless was also a very important

231
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,840
Speaker 1: part of ceremonies, which you still see in this day

232
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,000
Speaker 1: in certain ceremonies. And also this is something that's done

233
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,440
Speaker 1: to keep you know, to get rid of the maldojo,

234
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,680
Speaker 1: to get rid of the evil eye. Yeah. Well, and

235
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,920
Speaker 1: and Gina also has some health benefits, right for sure.

236
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:36,600
Speaker 1: It has you know, high vitamin C, it has vitamin B, keroteen,

237
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:51,840
Speaker 1: it has a bunch of antioxidants. When Cortez came and

238
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,080
Speaker 1: some of the first things he sent back to the

239
00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,680
Speaker 1: to the Old World and to specifically the Queen of

240
00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:03,280
Speaker 1: Spain was chocolate, it the tomato, and chile. And she

241
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,360
Speaker 1: loved the chocolate, and she loved the tomato. And when

242
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:11,400
Speaker 1: she tasted the chile, Chilo, yeah, sent chilo. She she

243
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:16,280
Speaker 1: got bit by the by the pepper, says like she

244
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,080
Speaker 1: was like, no, not not having this. Well, they were

245
00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:24,200
Speaker 1: growing the chiles in monasteries, so in Spain um they

246
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,960
Speaker 1: were growing them and monitors because the plant is so pretty.

247
00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,400
Speaker 1: What was the European reaction to Chile's because they were

248
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,520
Speaker 1: cheap and easy to grow. When Chile's did make their

249
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,600
Speaker 1: way in, you know, to Europe, they sort of spread right,

250
00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,400
Speaker 1: and it was grown as a beautiful, you know plant.

251
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,160
Speaker 1: But the lower classes started using it the same way

252
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,320
Speaker 1: as black pepper. And this is sort of fifteen hundreds,

253
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,680
Speaker 1: the beginning of the Renaissance, and for so many years

254
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:52,080
Speaker 1: during the Middle Ages, the very wealthy tables used to

255
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,640
Speaker 1: use a lot of heavy spices, particularly black pepper, but

256
00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,720
Speaker 1: also things like cinnamon and cuman like, really very lots

257
00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,000
Speaker 1: of ices. But once we get Chiles and the lower

258
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,760
Speaker 1: classes could add some of that to their foods, than

259
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,600
Speaker 1: they're really wealthy didn't want it anymore, right, So it

260
00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:15,880
Speaker 1: was no longer eating spices, was no longer a status symbol.

261
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,520
Speaker 1: But there was a lot of you know, like you said,

262
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,320
Speaker 1: you know, the queen didn't want the Chiles. But there's

263
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,480
Speaker 1: this English gardener and writer named John Evelyn, and he

264
00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,080
Speaker 1: was writing to the Earl of Sandwich, who was ambassador

265
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,240
Speaker 1: to the Court of Spain in the seventeenth century, and

266
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,040
Speaker 1: he talks about the beauty of their fruit. He compared

267
00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,960
Speaker 1: it to polished coral, but warned that very little will

268
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,160
Speaker 1: set ye throat in such a flame as has been

269
00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:48,640
Speaker 1: sometimes deadly. I love that we've got more after the break,

270
00:16:48,720 --> 00:17:05,560
Speaker 1: so don't go anywhere. Welcome back to Hungary for history.

271
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,320
Speaker 1: A friend of the show, Ivan Vasquet, owner of Made

272
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,200
Speaker 1: Restaurants in Los Angeles, is back. You might remember him

273
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:17,000
Speaker 1: talking about mescal during our History of Mexican Spirits episode.

274
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,280
Speaker 1: Here he is sharing what Chi less his mom and

275
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,680
Speaker 1: grandmother cooked when he was growing up in Wahaca, Mexico,

276
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,679
Speaker 1: how dried chi lets are used in a variety of

277
00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,720
Speaker 1: ways in Wahaca cuisine, and providing us some insight on

278
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,960
Speaker 1: why cooking with chiless isn't just a fashion but a

279
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:41,480
Speaker 1: deeply respected tradition in his community. Hello, this is the

280
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:46,720
Speaker 1: Bambascus with Mother restaurants in Los Angeles. Here in Waha, California.

281
00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,400
Speaker 1: Of course, I have a lot of memories. I grew

282
00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,920
Speaker 1: up with my mom, she's a tale chice in Guahaka

283
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,600
Speaker 1: and Bai Centrales. And also I grew up with my grandma,

284
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,199
Speaker 1: and both of them that used to cook moles and

285
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:14,080
Speaker 1: other salsas with roasted right chillis, including chili facia, chile,

286
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:20,640
Speaker 1: costeno Chile, the arbor Chile, Wahillo, Chile pikin Chile, mulatto,

287
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,320
Speaker 1: chilla marillo. Now only to make malee, but also to

288
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,800
Speaker 1: make a cup of the soups you know, like poole,

289
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:35,200
Speaker 1: chicken soup, caldo um and other gizados. Because you don't

290
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,440
Speaker 1: only use dry chilis for mole. You know, it's part

291
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,359
Speaker 1: of our tradition, part of our culture, part of the

292
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,840
Speaker 1: genes that we have Jesus mescal. So we use dry

293
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:51,760
Speaker 1: chilis and every single dish, including soups, caldos, soapass. It's

294
00:18:51,760 --> 00:19:01,440
Speaker 1: a little flavor that we add to every single dish.

295
00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,320
Speaker 1: The chi from Ohaka, you don't you don't buy it

296
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,840
Speaker 1: by the weight, you buy it by the peace because

297
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,960
Speaker 1: it's so rare and it's hard to find. And what happened.

298
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,919
Speaker 1: But when I went to Costa Chica, one of the

299
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,520
Speaker 1: regions of Ohaka with our sisters and brothers are from Mexicans.

300
00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,520
Speaker 1: I asked a learned you know, Hara cooked with chile

301
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,280
Speaker 1: costeno and I tried one mole rojo that was unbelievable

302
00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,680
Speaker 1: made with chile cost and chilli puya, which was way

303
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,520
Speaker 1: different than the chile rojo from Bias Andrales, the one

304
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,800
Speaker 1: that my mom mex so so beautiful to see the

305
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:41,439
Speaker 1: different regions and coiners and cosinero strationalies using what we

306
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,919
Speaker 1: have available um as far as as rye chillis and

307
00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:49,600
Speaker 1: dry leaves and other ingredients and the communities so impressive.

308
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,320
Speaker 1: So if we want to talk about dry chillis from Ohaka,

309
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:58,359
Speaker 1: you know, we can spend alist a month discovering tacking

310
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:03,640
Speaker 1: and you know, exploring different flavors, including one of my favorites,

311
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:13,600
Speaker 1: Chilla morita. Madre, we bring the chillis from Wahaca every

312
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 1: two weeks, most of them the ones that I mentioned,

313
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,880
Speaker 1: including chia, the one that is by the by the piece.

314
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,760
Speaker 1: We use it for sassas, for our pole, for some

315
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 1: other soups as well. It's so much important to bring

316
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 1: the chillis from Ohaca because I want to give the

317
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,159
Speaker 1: same flavors that I'm used to it. You know, we

318
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,840
Speaker 1: do find some other dry chillas here in Guaha, California,

319
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,919
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, but you you're not gonna find some of

320
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,040
Speaker 1: the endemic chillis from Oahaca. And that's how we use

321
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,679
Speaker 1: dry chillis. So when you go to Madre, just you know,

322
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:51,760
Speaker 1: asked for chilla morita salza with a shrim with camarones.

323
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,720
Speaker 1: It's amazing. You can try some of the mollets as well,

324
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 1: with Chilla costeno, chilla pulla and hopefully we can see

325
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:03,240
Speaker 1: you there. Just remember that the dried chilis is not

326
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 1: a fashion. It's something that we grew up. It's a tradition.

327
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 1: Spider by culture, irants and our jeans and I definitely

328
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 1: have a lot of respect for the Chilis and for

329
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 1: my ancestors that give us this opportunity and this knowledge,

330
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:24,199
Speaker 1: and to my motherland Huahaca, forgive us this diversity of

331
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,040
Speaker 1: Chilis and for the people that respect whaka and cousin

332
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:38,919
Speaker 1: in the world. Let's talk about methods, because chila. You

333
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 1: can have it raw, you can have it dried, you

334
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,439
Speaker 1: could have it canned, you could have it cooked. I

335
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 1: mean there's so many ways to use pickled. Yeah, I

336
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 1: mean there's so many, so many ways it could be.

337
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 1: It could be a main dish, it could be a vegetable,

338
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,160
Speaker 1: it could be a side dish. It could be a salsa.

339
00:21:55,680 --> 00:22:00,439
Speaker 1: So I feel like it's just a very versatile berry.

340
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 1: What are some of your favorite ways to make to

341
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,920
Speaker 1: make chila? To make salsa, um, I make an amazing

342
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 1: tomatio salza so I but I roast all my my chile,

343
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 1: my tomattios, the onion, the garlic. I really roast all

344
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 1: of that. Get it really shot, charred, charred. I can't.

345
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 1: I get it really charred and uh, and then I

346
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 1: put in the blender and then I cook it. So

347
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,439
Speaker 1: that's the the salsa bettaa that we eat daily. I

348
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,880
Speaker 1: make it by the jar every Sunday because pepper goes

349
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 1: through it like water. And then Claudia, our Frank Claudia

350
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 1: taught me a beautiful chips which is um, really tasty

351
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 1: and not I don't cook that one. And it's a

352
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 1: red salsa that I like. That sounds delicious. So the

353
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 1: salza beta that you make, do you use it for

354
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,120
Speaker 1: chips or do you make it for anchiladas everything? It's

355
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 1: kind of universal. Yeah, you could eat it just like that. Um,

356
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 1: I make it. I put on a nichiladas, I put

357
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 1: it on my chila quiles, I put it on anything

358
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: for breakfast. Eggs Alva to Sevy of course for that

359
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 1: calls anytime we make taccoles, chicken tackles, it's it's what

360
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 1: we use for chicken puckles. It's really yeah, it's delicious.

361
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: So there's salsa and then there's mole. What's the word

362
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 1: mule come from? What does it mean? Again? Molly comes

363
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 1: from the nawalmuli, which means sauce. So basically it's another

364
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: it's another sauce. It's different than the sauces that we've

365
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 1: been talking about, but it is a type of sauce

366
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: made with lots of dried chiless and there's so many

367
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 1: different types of molle. But that's a sauce that's one

368
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: of the most important sauces of Mexico, right, And it

369
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: just goes to show you how diverse chiles are. They

370
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,360
Speaker 1: could be used in a sauce, you know, mixed with

371
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 1: like mule negro that has you know, chocolate. Then these

372
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:48,360
Speaker 1: raw saltzas with fresh herbs. So there's so many different

373
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 1: types of salsas that can be made. You can make

374
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: salzas with just the seeds. You could you know, grind

375
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: the dried peppers and have a powder like the cayenne

376
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,199
Speaker 1: pepper or the antro powder bahin. You could you know,

377
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: rim your glasses with with a little bit of powdered chile.

378
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: There's just so many varieties. And you mentioned the chiluckilez

379
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: that's like my favorite, one of my favorite foods in

380
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 1: the whole world, or chi luckiles and I never know,

381
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,679
Speaker 1: oh my god, I never know if I want red

382
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,479
Speaker 1: or green, so I always get them the orcados so

383
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 1: I have both. Oh yeah, I likes. Yeah. I went

384
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 1: to Wahaka and even though Puebla is more known as

385
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 1: the birthplace of mole, they say, Wahaka perfected. It's a

386
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: big rivalry, so you don't want to take a side. Um,

387
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: but I got to make a lot of moles, and man,

388
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,120
Speaker 1: the amount of dried Chile and different Chile, and everybody

389
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 1: has a different recipe. You know, there's thousands and thousands

390
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 1: of different recipes and different ways to do mole. But

391
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,959
Speaker 1: it truly is uh mole is just a marriage of

392
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: old and new world ingredients. Like you see the dichotomy

393
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 1: of the colonizer and the colonized in this molet. It's

394
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: it's actually a pretty fascinating sauce. It is. I love

395
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: I love mallets. One of my favorite things in the world,

396
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: the black morle. But yeah, there's and and like you said,

397
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: there are so many different varieties. I mean, Wahaka says

398
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 1: that they're the home to the land of the seven Morlez.

399
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: There's so many, there are so many. No, but you

400
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: know they did that for um marketing, did they really

401
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 1: in searching for Mexico. We talked about it in and

402
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: one of the historians from Wahaka said, that's not there's

403
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: not that's not true. There's not seven moles. That was

404
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: a marketing tool for tourism and it brought people. It

405
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 1: brought people to the region that wanted to try the

406
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: seven Moleska is so sorry. That's I didn't know that

407
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: it was a marketing because I've always said, like, there's

408
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: no way, there's so many. It's a sauce. There's like

409
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: as many as you could possibly think of making. I

410
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: did not know that there was a marketing employ And

411
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: actually when I went to Wahaka, when I said that,

412
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: I went, this was like gosh, it was like twin

413
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: years ago. I wanted to learn the Seven molest And

414
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: that's when I was like, wait, but there's in people

415
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: who are like, but there's just so much more, and

416
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I want to learn the seven Molests.

417
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 1: There you go. You were you fell into our tourist trap.

418
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 1: What were you most surprised about this episode about Chile?

419
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 1: Um that Chile is a berry? Me too. I hope

420
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 1: people can try out a bunch of our salsa recipes.

421
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: You put yours off up mine and we'll post it

422
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: and see if we'll see people's comments. We should have

423
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: a chili salsa cook off. We should Hungry for History

424
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: is an unbelievable entertainment production in partnership with i Heearts

425
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: my Kultura podcast network. For more of your favorite shows,

426
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get

427
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: your podcasts. The Things, the