Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh
Speaker 1: Clark and there's Charles w Chuck Bryant and it's just
Speaker 1: the two of us. And that's okay because we are
Speaker 1: here and we are ready to do this thing and
Speaker 1: it's gonna be good stuff. You should not. That's right.
Speaker 1: Waiting into political waters yep, no way around it, no
Speaker 1: way around it. What does that DC license plates say?
Speaker 1: Taxation without representation? That says it all, it really does.
Speaker 1: I love it because it's so subversive, you know. That's right.
Speaker 1: We're talking about DC statehood and why the District of
Speaker 1: Columbia it's not a state when they have seven hundred
Speaker 1: thousand roughly people living there, about two hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: thousand of which were born and raised there. Uh, and
Speaker 1: yet they don't get the benefits of statehood we'll talk
Speaker 1: about for reasons that are kind oft I think. So. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: if you aren't aware, if you live in d C.
Speaker 1: You you have some voting rights, but mostly, um, you
Speaker 1: are very much limited or restricted as far as like
Speaker 1: what you're allowed to do to participate in democracy, at
Speaker 1: least compared to other states, right, and all of this
Speaker 1: was like because of a layer, layer after layer after
Speaker 1: layer of rules and laws and regulations that basically prevent
Speaker 1: DC residents from voting or participating like other other residents
Speaker 1: of other states. Um. And so this idea that like, wait,
Speaker 1: this isn't right has been something that people have been
Speaker 1: talking about for a very long time, and yet we
Speaker 1: still can't reach this finish line to make d C
Speaker 1: the fifty first state, um, which a lot of people is,
Speaker 1: including most the people who live in d C want
Speaker 1: they want to become the fifty first state. They want
Speaker 1: to be a state, they want to be treated like
Speaker 1: a state, and they just can't quite get it to
Speaker 1: the finish line. But it's possible, Chuck, that we're close,
Speaker 1: closer than ever, actually closer than ever, but still not
Speaker 1: too close. If he asked me, well, we'll we'll we'll see.
Speaker 1: I think we'll see. Yeah, we'll see. So let's talk
Speaker 1: about how DC was even established and why all of
Speaker 1: this is is like this hodgepodge of weird laws and
Speaker 1: rules and where it came from. Yeah, so we didn't
Speaker 1: have a capital as a country at first? Uh for
Speaker 1: about um, I guess from seventeen seventy six to eighty nine,
Speaker 1: the Continental Congress met in different places. They met in Philly,
Speaker 1: of course, they met in Maryland. Some they met New
Speaker 1: York City. Some they even met in New Jersey some
Speaker 1: believe it or not. And in sev seven and the
Speaker 1: Philadelphia Convention, they wrote the Constitution and said, you know,
Speaker 1: that's really kind of beefed up the oral government, and
Speaker 1: said we need someplace that's like clearly ours that we
Speaker 1: will meet, that is permanent. And it was written right
Speaker 1: there in the Constitution, Article one, Section eight, Class seventeen. Yes,
Speaker 1: and um. Exactly where they were going to put this
Speaker 1: new capital was a huge debate, Like everybody just presumed
Speaker 1: it would be someplace like New York or Philadelphia, where
Speaker 1: it was already you know, the populations were very established
Speaker 1: and large, and where they had already written the Constitution,
Speaker 1: and where a lot of the early founding fathers were from. Um.
Speaker 1: But the Southern States said, hey, man, we don't want
Speaker 1: the capitol all the way up there in New York
Speaker 1: or in Pennsylvania. We need it somewhere that's a little
Speaker 1: closer to the middle of this country. This string of
Speaker 1: thirteen colonies along the eastern seaboard. So they came up
Speaker 1: with what's called the Compromise of seventy, which said, Okay,
Speaker 1: we'll place this capital further south towards you guys, but
Speaker 1: you have to say that the colonial um debts obligations
Speaker 1: that were accrued during the Revolutionary War, we get to
Speaker 1: move those over to them to the federal government's responsibility,
Speaker 1: because we these northern colonies are swimming in debt and
Speaker 1: we just can't pay them off. So one of the
Speaker 1: first things we have to do when we established this
Speaker 1: country is laden it with revolutionary war debt, right. Uh.
Speaker 1: And with the Residents Act, they said, you know, we
Speaker 1: literally need land, like physical space, So Maryland, Virginia, pony up.
Speaker 1: You've got to give up each a little bit, uh
Speaker 1: to create this area. And um, I think they eventually not.
Speaker 1: I think I know they eventually got back Alexandria Virginia
Speaker 1: in eighty six, But initially that was a part of
Speaker 1: the uh, the tranche of land and sort of the
Speaker 1: very I think from the very beginning they weren't a
Speaker 1: state because of something that happened that kind of feels
Speaker 1: a little more contemporary of the past couple of recent years.
Speaker 1: The the Pennsylvania Mutiny of seventeen eighty three when these veterans,
Speaker 1: hundreds of veterans, stormed Congress and said, you know, this
Speaker 1: is what we want. They were angry, we want back Bay,
Speaker 1: we want this and that, and the Pennsylvania Executive Council
Speaker 1: would not send the state militia to protect Congress and
Speaker 1: they had to move to New Jersey temporarily. And so
Speaker 1: they were like, this is not good. We need to
Speaker 1: be able to be in charge of our own um
Speaker 1: defense really, and so we need a federal land that
Speaker 1: is not a state so we can have our own uh,
Speaker 1: our own defense system, our own soldiers system. They just
Speaker 1: saw that if it ever came down to, you know,
Speaker 1: a federal versus a state kind of situation again, that
Speaker 1: they couldn't rely on a state militia, so that capital
Speaker 1: couldn't be associated or affiliated with the state, had to
Speaker 1: be a stateless capital that was its own territory. It
Speaker 1: made sense, It definitely did um and and it was
Speaker 1: all because of that Pennsylvania Mutiny of seventeen eighty three,
Speaker 1: because war veterans were oh back pay and they were
Speaker 1: mad about it, and we're chasing Congress all over the country.
Speaker 1: For it. So, um, so that's why d C was
Speaker 1: stateless to begin with, like that, so that the federal
Speaker 1: government could have its own jurisdiction over this this area,
Speaker 1: over the capital, that's right. And uh in eighteen hundred
Speaker 1: Congress set up there in Washington, d C. And like
Speaker 1: I said, Alexandria is part of it. First Georgetown was
Speaker 1: and still is, and they were you know, there were
Speaker 1: port towns, so there was a lot going on there.
Speaker 1: But for the first um several decades, d C was
Speaker 1: pretty rural, uh, and didn't really start growing a lot,
Speaker 1: and we have some population breakdowns, but it was really
Speaker 1: post Civil War is when the population boom happened there.
Speaker 1: I think in eighteen hundred there was eight thousand people there,
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty seventy thousand, eighteen eighty a hundred and seventy
Speaker 1: five thousand. That's a big jump. Yeah. And these are
Speaker 1: you know, people that work for the government, and these
Speaker 1: are also uh, free people now that came up from
Speaker 1: the South set up presidents there and so d C
Speaker 1: for many many years had a majority black population and
Speaker 1: kind of right away, Uh, the federal government was like,
Speaker 1: well that won't do either, yes, And so the reason
Speaker 1: that they were not okay with it was because well,
Speaker 1: at first, so people in DC have been agitating for, um,
Speaker 1: what's called home rule, which is just basically, you're allowed
Speaker 1: to self determine your own government. You can elect your
Speaker 1: own officials. They can pass laws other people can't, like
Speaker 1: out other people in the country can't tell you that
Speaker 1: your laws are invalid. Um just basically the right to
Speaker 1: sovereignty that any state holds right. So people have been
Speaker 1: interested in that in d C since the outset. But
Speaker 1: as you said earlier, it was a really rural and
Speaker 1: small population for a while, so it didn't really matter
Speaker 1: as much because it affected so few people. But as
Speaker 1: the population grew it became more and more of a
Speaker 1: pressing issue until um, they finally said, and I think
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty seven, you know what you're you're you're totally right,
Speaker 1: like we should we should let d C residents vote,
Speaker 1: And they passed an act that said everybody in DC
Speaker 1: can vote. And by saying everybody in d C, or
Speaker 1: I should say every man in DC can vote, Um,
Speaker 1: they were for the first time in American history, enfranchising
Speaker 1: black men to vote. Like there had never been a
Speaker 1: law that allow black men to vote in the history
Speaker 1: of the country to that point, and that was the
Speaker 1: first one that was ever passed. And so starting in
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty seven, uh for a full three long years, UM,
Speaker 1: black men were allowed to vote in d C for
Speaker 1: things like federal federal federal government positions like the president
Speaker 1: and vice president. Right. And when I said that won't
Speaker 1: do that's what I was talking about, they uh quit
Speaker 1: realized that you have a large city or you know,
Speaker 1: a larger city now that is being controlled. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of political power with black people for
Speaker 1: the first time, and this alarmed them. And so they said,
Speaker 1: all right, we're going to replace this with a federally
Speaker 1: appointed commission. And they did that really quickly, and it
Speaker 1: was exactly for that reason. It was to read disenfranchise
Speaker 1: black people. Yeah. There's a famous quote from a senator
Speaker 1: named John Tyler Morgan who was describing it years later.
Speaker 1: Why why they repealed that law and appointed that that
Speaker 1: federal commission to rule the city? He said, And I'm
Speaker 1: sorry for this, everybody. After the Negroes came into the district,
Speaker 1: it became necessary to deny the right of suffrage entirely
Speaker 1: to every human being, to burn down the barn to
Speaker 1: get rid of the rats. The rats being the Negro
Speaker 1: population and the barn being the government of the District
Speaker 1: of Columbia. So what do you said? He said it
Speaker 1: out loud, he did, and wrote it down like it's
Speaker 1: in quote there. So he Um, what he's saying is
Speaker 1: is that to keep black people from voting in d C,
Speaker 1: they had to remove the voting rights of everybody. Um.
Speaker 1: And that's what they did. And what's crazy is that's
Speaker 1: how it has generally remained for hundred and fifty years
Speaker 1: now for basically the same reason. Unfortunately. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: from the eighteen hundreds until nineteen seventy three, like I
Speaker 1: was born and alive, when Washington, d C. Was still
Speaker 1: a territory that had a governor and a ruling counsel
Speaker 1: that the president appointed. Uh, they did have a single
Speaker 1: delegate to Congress. Uh, and but that they were not
Speaker 1: given a congressional vote. So there was a delegate that
Speaker 1: could do the things that delegates do. Uh, they can
Speaker 1: even introduce articles, but they can't even vote on their
Speaker 1: own articles. No, no, they can. They can beyond can
Speaker 1: middies and all that, like almost everything that a House
Speaker 1: member can do as congressional member could do, but just
Speaker 1: not vote. It's a non voting delegate. And so in
Speaker 1: that way, like, yes, you had somebody who could advocate
Speaker 1: for d C, but the the people of d C
Speaker 1: couldn't elect somebody who could go vote on their behalf
Speaker 1: in the House of Representatives. And that's just the house.
Speaker 1: They have nobody and never have had a single representative
Speaker 1: in the Senate. So the only representation that DC has
Speaker 1: has is a single non voting member of the House
Speaker 1: of Representatives. And that's it. Yeah, like constituents without a
Speaker 1: real say at the end of the day. It gets
Speaker 1: even far far worse than that, you know, because I'm
Speaker 1: sure people are like, well, come on, you know, how
Speaker 1: much does that affect these people? Really? Um, Well, we're
Speaker 1: gonna explain exactly how it affects him. But one of
Speaker 1: the big ways, if it stands out to me, is
Speaker 1: that when um, the Home Rule Act was passed in
Speaker 1: ninety three that said, okay, you guys can elect your
Speaker 1: own mayor and you an electoral own city council. Bully
Speaker 1: for you. There's this thing that we have to to
Speaker 1: tell you about. Though it's not all you know, great,
Speaker 1: every single law that gets passed by you in your
Speaker 1: town is subject to Congressional review. It doesn't actually become
Speaker 1: law until Congress says that your laws that you came
Speaker 1: up with in past yourselves are okay. And that means
Speaker 1: that any congress person, any House member from anywhere in
Speaker 1: the country, who is offended by one of your laws,
Speaker 1: who takes an issue with one of your laws, can
Speaker 1: strike that law down basically single handedly by attaching a
Speaker 1: rider to your annual budget. And so if you don't
Speaker 1: like that writer, well then you you can do without it,
Speaker 1: but you have to do without the money that makes
Speaker 1: up about your operating budget every year. That's the kind
Speaker 1: of like a drag Toonian rule that Congress holds over
Speaker 1: d C to this day. Yeah, and this is why.
Speaker 1: And you know, unfortunately this does wait into politics, and
Speaker 1: we'll get into that more later. But like it is
Speaker 1: kind of purely for partisan politics why d C is
Speaker 1: not a state at this point. Uh. And it's the
Speaker 1: ironies are pretty rich here in that. UM. Generally Republicans
Speaker 1: do not want d C to become a state. UM.
Speaker 1: But they're also the same party who decries government overreach
Speaker 1: in states states rights. And I guess they'll say well, yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's not a state. But it is certainly government
Speaker 1: overreach when you have the local people of a terror
Speaker 1: of a district voting there for their own laws that
Speaker 1: their constituents want, but the federal government can override those.
Speaker 1: And again you might say, like, what laws, who cares? What?
Speaker 1: What's the problem? How are these people actually really harmed
Speaker 1: with that? Well, there's actually like a lot of laws
Speaker 1: that DC has passed that Congress has either dragged its
Speaker 1: feet on or overturned that have actually harmed people. Um
Speaker 1: d C had a needle exchange program to try to
Speaker 1: slow the spread of HIV um and it was overturned
Speaker 1: by Congress in and was not allowed to happen again
Speaker 1: until two thousand seven. And it turns out that when
Speaker 1: that was finally allowed to start up again, the HIV
Speaker 1: infection rates in the city and by the way, d
Speaker 1: C had one of the highest rates of HIV. After
Speaker 1: its needle exchange program was was banned by Congress, um
Speaker 1: it's HIV rates dropped by sev and an estimated hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty people were prevented from being infective with HIV
Speaker 1: in just two years after the needle program was allowed
Speaker 1: to to start up again in two thousand seven. There's
Speaker 1: also ones on abortion access COVID nineteen they got the
Speaker 1: short end of the stick as far as funds go. Um.
Speaker 1: And then there's another one where, uh, they tried to
Speaker 1: repeal their sodomy law, which outlawed sex between men back
Speaker 1: in one and Congress didn't let it actually go through
Speaker 1: until there's just been a lot of stuff where basically,
Speaker 1: if you have somebody in Congress who does and like
Speaker 1: the idea of d C, the people of d C
Speaker 1: having um legalized marijuana or being able to use taxpayer
Speaker 1: money for abortions, like DC doesn't get to do that
Speaker 1: because the writer gets attached to their budget and they
Speaker 1: have to they have to take it. And that COVID
Speaker 1: thing you were talking about, they um, every US state
Speaker 1: got one point to five billion dollars in aid, but
Speaker 1: Congress cut that in half for d C even though
Speaker 1: they had Well, first of all, they're like, well, we're
Speaker 1: bigger than Vermont, uh and like one one other state too, right,
Speaker 1: And they're almost the same size as Alaska, UM, North Dakota,
Speaker 1: South Dakota, and Delaware population wise. Yeah, and they were
Speaker 1: I think had more confirmed COVID cases at the time
Speaker 1: than nineteen other states, yet they got half the aid
Speaker 1: just just because. Yes, so it's it's my numbing and
Speaker 1: crazy and if you like, just put yourself in the
Speaker 1: position of somebody who's a like interested in the political
Speaker 1: process and lives in d C and the idea that
Speaker 1: your city can pass a law huge like with huge support.
Speaker 1: I think they're marijuana legalization, UM law passed with supportive voters,
Speaker 1: and somebody from Arizona could come along and be like, Nope,
Speaker 1: you're not doing that. That law doesn't go through. I'm
Speaker 1: attaching that as a writer to your your annual budget.
Speaker 1: How outrage inducing would that be? You know, how how
Speaker 1: frustrating would it be at the very least. So, yes,
Speaker 1: it actually is harmful um to the to the democracy
Speaker 1: of Washington, d C. And their their self determination and
Speaker 1: their ability for home rule. UM. The situation as it
Speaker 1: stands right now, all right, well, let's take a break.
Speaker 1: I think it's pretty clear where we stand here, and
Speaker 1: we'll talk about the electoral College, just that little thing
Speaker 1: right after this. Alright, So, uh, people have been allowed
Speaker 1: to vote in Washington, d C. For elections for presidential
Speaker 1: national elections for a long time now, uh. In nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty one, they Radifford, that Radifford ratified the twenty three
Speaker 1: Amendment to the Constitution that was specifically for d C
Speaker 1: electoral College votes in the presidential election. That was when
Speaker 1: they started to be able to vote for president vote
Speaker 1: at all. That's right. So, so sixty sixty years is
Speaker 1: how long the residents of DC have been able to vote. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean when I said quite a while, it didn't
Speaker 1: mean on the like the beginning of time scale, just
Speaker 1: sort of oh, I didn't know if you're being facetious
Speaker 1: or not. No, no no, no, I mean for many decades now,
Speaker 1: but not Yeah, it's a guess. In that context, it's
Speaker 1: it's an outrage for sure. And so that that that
Speaker 1: twenty three amendment. That's the whole purpose of the twenty
Speaker 1: three Amendment is to basically say, yes, DC can now
Speaker 1: vote in presidential elections, and they can contribute electors, um,
Speaker 1: but they can never have more electors than the number
Speaker 1: of electors that the least populous state in the United
Speaker 1: States has. It doesn't matter how many people DC could
Speaker 1: swell to. It probably couldn't handle it, but it could
Speaker 1: swell to the size of a two million population and
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. You get your three electors, right, and
Speaker 1: it's always going to be three at the minimum because
Speaker 1: you're a number of electors are based on the representation
Speaker 1: you have in the in the House and the Senate,
Speaker 1: so you always every state has two senators and every
Speaker 1: state has at least one congress person, and d C
Speaker 1: probably would always still have one congress person anyway, that's
Speaker 1: how many Alaska has, in Vermont and Delaware like these are,
Speaker 1: it's just based on population, so they will probably always
Speaker 1: have three electors UM. And so those electors ever since
Speaker 1: the I believe the nineteen sixty four election, the first
Speaker 1: time DC ever contributed electors to the Electoral College UM,
Speaker 1: those those electors almost invariably go towards the Democratic candidate,
Speaker 1: right Like DC is one of the first states that
Speaker 1: gets called on like those electoral maps during every presidential election,
Speaker 1: and they go towards the Democrat. So if you've made
Speaker 1: DC a state that's not gonna be a huge change,
Speaker 1: like nothing's going to change, You're they're still going to
Speaker 1: have their three electoral votes and they're probably going to
Speaker 1: go towards the Democratic candidate for president. They're only going
Speaker 1: to have one congress person, and that one congress person
Speaker 1: will probably be a Democrat. But it's kind of a
Speaker 1: drop on the bucket when you're talking about like four
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty or sixty I can't remember however many
Speaker 1: are in the House right now. But when you talk
Speaker 1: about the Senate, now we get to the problem, the
Speaker 1: partisan political problem with why DC is not a state,
Speaker 1: because d C is and has been for a very
Speaker 1: long time, majority black as far as the population goes,
Speaker 1: in as far as their voting base goes, traditionally, Black
Speaker 1: voters lean Democrat. That's as far as voting history goes.
Speaker 1: That's typically the case for the last several decades at least.
Speaker 1: And if you have to new senators that just did
Speaker 1: not exist before, the Senate would go from a hundred
Speaker 1: senators to a hundred two senators, and those two senators
Speaker 1: were almost guaranteed to be Democratic senators. Will imagine what
Speaker 1: two extra Democrats senators would do right now if you
Speaker 1: had two more Democrats in the Senate than what we
Speaker 1: have right now. Now we've reached exactly now, we've reached
Speaker 1: the reason why DC is not being allowed to be
Speaker 1: a state and why it's a partisan political matter. Right,
Speaker 1: and here is where you're going to get into. UM,
Speaker 1: to me, some very disingenuous arguments. Uh, that are just
Speaker 1: it would be so much easier if they just talked
Speaker 1: about what the reality was instead of disingenuous arguments that
Speaker 1: everybody knows isn't the real reason. Uh, it's just that
Speaker 1: That's the stuff I hate about politics in this country
Speaker 1: is no one's talking about the what the real situation is. UM.
Speaker 1: You know, some people they'll try and call it out,
Speaker 1: but they So there are sort of two avenues that
Speaker 1: have been bandied about over the years. Is basically the
Speaker 1: two two main paths for uh, making DC estate. And
Speaker 1: one is what you what we need to do? Is
Speaker 1: the idea is that what we need to do is
Speaker 1: shrink what is called the federal district to only the
Speaker 1: buildings that are under federal control, like the White House,
Speaker 1: in the Capitol Building and you know kind of everything there.
Speaker 1: D c all the all the government buildings basically and
Speaker 1: just make it that. Um. But no, no one lives
Speaker 1: is there except for you. No one lives in these buildings.
Speaker 1: These are office buildings except for the White House where
Speaker 1: the president and first family live and maybe some of
Speaker 1: the staff So one of the disingenuous arguments that comes
Speaker 1: up is, well, we can't have a situation where there's
Speaker 1: only three or four people, like let's say, living in
Speaker 1: these places that get this kind of representation. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: completely disingenuous. Sure, and especially if that that president is
Speaker 1: an incumbent running for election again, then that incumbent president
Speaker 1: would have three electoral votes to cast for themselves. Right.
Speaker 1: So so on paper, you're like, oh, yeah, I could
Speaker 1: see that being a problem. Let's just give up because
Speaker 1: of the twenty three Amendment and that cork that it attributed, right,
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of like workarounds too that
Speaker 1: people are like, no, that's that's a ridiculous argument, right,
Speaker 1: Like the president could in fact usually does vote uh
Speaker 1: absentee from their own home state. That's that's one. Then,
Speaker 1: so if no electoral votes are cast, or if no
Speaker 1: votes are actually cast in the district of Columbia, then
Speaker 1: you there's no electors to be given, right, so you'd
Speaker 1: have those three electors that just never didn't go to anybody.
Speaker 1: That's one. That's one solution. Um. Another one is to
Speaker 1: just take those three electors and give them to whoever
Speaker 1: wins the popular vote regardless. Yeah, and then a lot
Speaker 1: of people are like, no, you just repeal the twenty
Speaker 1: three amendment if you make to see a state like
Speaker 1: it's a one two punch, like they that's just how
Speaker 1: it has to be. That's right. And we'll talk more
Speaker 1: about some some disingenuous arguments and deconstruct him as we go,
Speaker 1: but that's the one that seems to be bandied about
Speaker 1: most most commonly. Right. Yeah, and you know, we've talked
Speaker 1: a little bit about why it matters to begin with. Um,
Speaker 1: we mentioned at the very beginning their license plate taxation
Speaker 1: without representation, and you know, that's a little bit of
Speaker 1: a snide license plate, but it's very true. They pay
Speaker 1: federal income tax and like really high federal income tax,
Speaker 1: so much that they contribute more than they received from
Speaker 1: the federal government. One thing I saw, Chuck is like
Speaker 1: I was like, well, wait a minute, can DC like
Speaker 1: even handle being a state? You know, how much does
Speaker 1: it get from the federal government? And apparently it is not,
Speaker 1: in any way, shape or form, the the state that
Speaker 1: or the area that receives the most federal funding. I
Speaker 1: guess that honor goes to Mississippi. Of Mississippi state and
Speaker 1: local budget is made up of federal funds thirty percent
Speaker 1: for Louisiana, New Mexico, and South Dakota, pent DC is
Speaker 1: twent so just a quarter of all of the money
Speaker 1: that DC uses to operate comes from the federal government.
Speaker 1: The rest is from local taxes. And DC apparently has
Speaker 1: a little bonnet, a little flower in its bonnet, and
Speaker 1: that it typically has a balanced budget every year too.
Speaker 1: Oh really, so we could do just fine without um
Speaker 1: being a state. It would be like, yeah, we should
Speaker 1: still get the federal funding because other states get federal
Speaker 1: funding too. But even if you kept it at the
Speaker 1: federal funding they get now, they would be doing just
Speaker 1: fine as far as federal law is concerned. They are
Speaker 1: treated as a state. Yeah, they're not a state with
Speaker 1: representation like a state. We already talked about congressional representation. Uh.
Speaker 1: They you know, they can't vote on bills. It's uh,
Speaker 1: it's really weird that you can introduce a bill and
Speaker 1: write the bill, but not vote in that bill. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And because constitutional amendments are typically what's thrown around about
Speaker 1: making DC a state or not, or has been up
Speaker 1: until recently. Um, it's kind of ironic that D c
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to vote on its own ratification like
Speaker 1: its own statehood, like, because it cannot vote on constitutional
Speaker 1: amendments because it's not a state. So it would basically
Speaker 1: DC has to rely on everybody else to go to
Speaker 1: bat for it because it doesn't have self determination. That's right.
Speaker 1: You want to take another break and then talk about
Speaker 1: some of the arguments for and against. Yeah, okay, well
Speaker 1: we're gonna do just that, everybody, George, all right, So
Speaker 1: we've you know, made our position clear that most of
Speaker 1: the arguments against statehood are and these aren't our arguments.
Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, any honest person will tell
Speaker 1: you that it is strictly partisan political issue. It's because
Speaker 1: they don't want two more Democratic senators in there. They
Speaker 1: just don't. And um, you know, uh, that's their right
Speaker 1: to fight against that, I guess, uh, and they and
Speaker 1: they do. But it's disingenuous and it's an anti social
Speaker 1: sentiment like there how somebody or some group of people
Speaker 1: are expected to vote has like nothing to do with
Speaker 1: whether they should have the right to vote or not.
Speaker 1: You can't just keep people from voting because you don't
Speaker 1: like the way they're going to vote. That is an
Speaker 1: anti social act anti democratic. Yeah, it's both, and you did.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what's going on right now. That is that's it.
Speaker 1: They boil it down, I mean, get mad at us,
Speaker 1: just like you did our gerrymandering episode or our voter
Speaker 1: suppression episode. It's still the case. That's just how it
Speaker 1: is right now. It's one of those political fictions that
Speaker 1: it's anything but that. That's right. Um. The one of
Speaker 1: the arguments is that it's unconstitutional to begin with. That's
Speaker 1: why you said that. Up until recently, most of the
Speaker 1: attempts to make DC a state have tried to come
Speaker 1: via constitutional amendments. And here's the thing though, like there's
Speaker 1: nothing specifically prohibiting d C from becoming a state in
Speaker 1: the constitution. No, you had mentioned that, like some some
Speaker 1: people are like, let's shrink d C the capital down
Speaker 1: to just the federal buildings. Basically as ed who helps
Speaker 1: us out with this one? UM puts it like tourists
Speaker 1: d C, right, and that everything else commercial and residential
Speaker 1: DC that would become the state and then that federal
Speaker 1: district would become the capital. And people are like no, no no, no,
Speaker 1: you can't do that. There's like a size requirement in
Speaker 1: the in the Constitution can't change something like that. And
Speaker 1: and people are saying, well, actually, there is a size requirement.
Speaker 1: It's a maximum, not a minimum. It doesn't say how
Speaker 1: small it can be, it says how big it can be.
Speaker 1: It can't be more than ten miles square. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think ten square mouths sare mouth So yes, you totally
Speaker 1: could shrink it. So just shut down that argument. But
Speaker 1: but one more thing, chuck about that. One of the
Speaker 1: reasons why they have abandoned a constitutional amendment making DC
Speaker 1: estate is twofold one. That's a huge hurdle to jump over.
Speaker 1: I think you have to have two thirds of the
Speaker 1: state to ratify account. So first of all, you have
Speaker 1: to get it through both houses of Congress, which is
Speaker 1: an impossibility to begin with. And then you have to
Speaker 1: have two thirds of the state, many of which are
Speaker 1: controlled by Republican legislatures, to ratify that amendment to make
Speaker 1: DC a state. So it's just too huge of uh
Speaker 1: an obstacle to this amount. But also it's really disingenuous
Speaker 1: to require a constitutional amendment to make DC estate because
Speaker 1: since the Constitution itself was ratified in not a single
Speaker 1: state that was admitted into the Union from that time
Speaker 1: had had was was admitted through a constitutional amendment. There
Speaker 1: are no constitutional amendments that that have admitted states. They've
Speaker 1: all come in through congressional decree instead. That's right, and
Speaker 1: well we'll talk about that in just a second more detail.
Speaker 1: But another one of the paths that has been bandied
Speaker 1: about a little bit is um well, not past the
Speaker 1: statehood but passed to making it not a state and
Speaker 1: ensuring it never become the state, saying well, why don't
Speaker 1: we just make it part of Virginia or Maryland like
Speaker 1: it used to be. Give it back to them and
Speaker 1: nobody you know, you know who doesn't want that, d C,
Speaker 1: Virginia and Maryland. Yeah, none of them want it. Maryland
Speaker 1: doesn't want to assume those seven hundred thousand people. Virginia
Speaker 1: doesn't want it. DC doesn't want to be a part
Speaker 1: of either one of those. Like, the only people that
Speaker 1: want that are are frankly Republicans who don't want it
Speaker 1: to become state. Yes, because it might add a few
Speaker 1: more electoral votes to Maryland or Virginia, but it would
Speaker 1: not add a single extra senator. You can't have more
Speaker 1: than two senators no matter what your population size. Again
Speaker 1: the crux to the matter. Um. Another one is that
Speaker 1: the idea that the city can't take care of that
Speaker 1: federal property. And I don't think anybody who's a pro
Speaker 1: statehood advocate says, oh yeah, yeah they can, that's just
Speaker 1: not true. But they say, well, we wouldn't be taking
Speaker 1: care of most of that property. It would be shrunk
Speaker 1: down to be the capital, so it'd still be the
Speaker 1: federal government's jurisdiction. People said, well, there's other federal buildings
Speaker 1: outside of this little tourist area. How what are you
Speaker 1: gonna do about those? And d C says, do you
Speaker 1: know how many states and cities have federal buildings in
Speaker 1: them that the state in the city takes care of
Speaker 1: in conjunction with the federal government and with funding from
Speaker 1: the federal government. Totally not a problem. I think disingenuinuity
Speaker 1: is that a word? It is now, Buddy, is one
Speaker 1: of my least favorite things to witness. It is because
Speaker 1: it's just it's just dishonest. It's just a bunch of garbage,
Speaker 1: like acting a certain like just call it what it is.
Speaker 1: Is so frustrating, it's almost almost disingenuous. Um. So we
Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier that no other state needed a Congressional
Speaker 1: or i'm sorry, a constitutional amendment to become a state. Um,
Speaker 1: the Tennessee model is sort of where DC has tried
Speaker 1: to go more recently. The Tennessee Plan in se when
Speaker 1: Tennessee as an a state yet, and they said, you
Speaker 1: know what, we're tired of waiting around for Congress to
Speaker 1: do anything about it. So we're gonna hold our own referendum.
Speaker 1: We're gonna vote to become a state. And we passed it,
Speaker 1: and then we're gonna write and approve our own state
Speaker 1: constitution and how we're going to administer that and kind
Speaker 1: of this is how we would do things. And they
Speaker 1: did that, and then Congress is sort of like everyone
Speaker 1: sort of sitting sitting there twiddling their thumbs staring at
Speaker 1: Congress like we're all ready to go. Just unlocked the
Speaker 1: door and we could become a state. And it worked,
Speaker 1: and it also worked in Michigan, Iowa, California, Oregon, Kansas
Speaker 1: and Alaska and so d C recently I think about
Speaker 1: five years ago, said maybe let's try this Tennessee plan
Speaker 1: forget constitutional amendments, let's just have a referendum. And it
Speaker 1: passed by and they said great, let's draft a constitution.
Speaker 1: And they did that and it was approved, and they said,
Speaker 1: the mayor is going to become the governor's city council
Speaker 1: will become the legislature, and here we go, Congress, let's
Speaker 1: get this done. We're ready to roll. Yeah. And I
Speaker 1: So this was in two thousand and sixteen that that
Speaker 1: referendum passed and they started to adopt the Tennessee Plan.
Speaker 1: And what sucks, Chuck, is that means that they were
Speaker 1: distracted by that idea that they had to become a
Speaker 1: state through constitutional amendment for decades, like they if they
Speaker 1: had taken up this Tennessee Plan decades ago, who knows
Speaker 1: where they would be now. They might be a state
Speaker 1: by now. It's just so it's just it's really sad
Speaker 1: to think like that that that work, that boondogg will work,
Speaker 1: that they needed for years. Yeah, basically, so that's why
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know, we might actually see it's
Speaker 1: possible we could see d C a state. Um, because
Speaker 1: this referendum and the plan that they followed where they
Speaker 1: basically made themselves an instant state, like just ad Congress
Speaker 1: kind of thing. Um. It came in just the last
Speaker 1: five years. So for the first time ever in the
Speaker 1: history of the District of Columbia, UM, a bill passed
Speaker 1: that says DC is a state. Please go ahead and
Speaker 1: m past this bill Senate, it past the House. Everything
Speaker 1: else has been like, we're the House of Representatives and
Speaker 1: we think DC should be a state, not a It's
Speaker 1: just a like a resolution and support of DC being
Speaker 1: a state. It's not an actual law. This is an
Speaker 1: actual law that passed the House of Representatives. Of course,
Speaker 1: it died in the Senate because, um, it was while
Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell was a majority leader and he didn't even
Speaker 1: let it come up for a vote. I I can't
Speaker 1: believe it even made it onto his desk before catching fire.
Speaker 1: But but the fact is that it did pass the
Speaker 1: House at least once. And that is brand new. That
Speaker 1: is definitely new. Yeah, it's amazing. And uh, it's amazing
Speaker 1: that we have a situation in our on our modern
Speaker 1: day government where one person can say no, we're not
Speaker 1: gonna vote on this two party system does not work.
Speaker 1: It's broken, it doesn't work. Yeah, it was reintroduced in
Speaker 1: one just this year past the House again. UM. Well,
Speaker 1: sadly in this case, it's probably not gonna happen because
Speaker 1: Democrats can't agree on anything within their own portable irony
Speaker 1: of the whole thing in it. Yes, it really is.
Speaker 1: You mentioned two people earlier, probably would be the same
Speaker 1: two people. That's what happen. Yeah. The only other question
Speaker 1: mark is Mark Kelly no Angus King from Maine, and
Speaker 1: he may be retired now, but yes, it is. From
Speaker 1: what I saw, it would come down to Kristen Cinema
Speaker 1: and Joe Manchin and UM both have not supported previous
Speaker 1: like DC statehood stuff before. Other people who have not
Speaker 1: actually didn't actually co sponsor that bill in the Senate,
Speaker 1: UM have supported other stuff, so they would be expected
Speaker 1: to vote yes. So it could come down to two
Speaker 1: people again, both of whom Democrats, that would keep d
Speaker 1: C from becoming a state. Now it's pretty interesting stuff.
Speaker 1: What would uh different names bandied about over the years
Speaker 1: that it did become a state. I knew that New
Speaker 1: Columbia was what they were gonna call it for a
Speaker 1: long time, but then you know, uh, in more recent years,
Speaker 1: Christopher Columbus has become less favorable in in the eyes
Speaker 1: of history, so they're saying maybe New Columbia is not
Speaker 1: the right the right name after all. No, and I
Speaker 1: didn't know this, but they they are. They plan as
Speaker 1: part of that referendum, um draft constitution that was passed, Uh,
Speaker 1: they would change the name. They would keep it as
Speaker 1: Washington d C, but d C would stand for Douglas Commonwealth,
Speaker 1: after Frederick Douglas, the abolitionist former. S I like it
Speaker 1: in that neat yeah, d C. You know, I think
Speaker 1: people they go to towards d C, which is a
Speaker 1: lot of fun. We both done that that thing a
Speaker 1: lot of times. Um, it is that. But d C
Speaker 1: is a rich city with a rich history, uh in
Speaker 1: and of itself, a rich history of music and culture
Speaker 1: and black culture and great food and like there's a
Speaker 1: there's a lot to d C besides the mall area.
Speaker 1: Um And every time I go there, I try to
Speaker 1: check out different areas and do different things, and uh,
Speaker 1: it's it's awesome. We have a great, great time when
Speaker 1: we do live shows in d C. It's one of
Speaker 1: my favorite places. When we go to uh what is
Speaker 1: it Lincoln and they give us us Lincoln logs. The pastry,
Speaker 1: where did those come from? What do you mean where
Speaker 1: they come from? What's what's the bakery that does those?
Speaker 1: Do you know, I don't know. I think it's I
Speaker 1: don't always just sitting there backstage and they're so delicious
Speaker 1: and we always eat like ten each of them. They're
Speaker 1: they're like Swiss cake rolls, but like the bakery version
Speaker 1: of a Swiss cake roll. Yeah. So before we go, Chuck,
Speaker 1: I feel like we have to talk about how some
Speaker 1: recent events like really kind of have brought the idea
Speaker 1: of DC not being a state to the four um
Speaker 1: both of which occurred in actually, oh, like the storming
Speaker 1: of the capital. That's that's one of them for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think that kind of harkens back to the
Speaker 1: mutiny of seventeen eighty three and that uh there there
Speaker 1: are some people who think it could it would have
Speaker 1: gone down a lot differently if um, we had been able,
Speaker 1: if if the government had been able to call on
Speaker 1: the state national Guard like super quickly. Yeah, because the
Speaker 1: national Guard, the d C National Guard is not under
Speaker 1: control of d C, just like any other states national
Speaker 1: guard would be under the state's control, which is why
Speaker 1: that that's what Congress wanted it to be, Like, they
Speaker 1: wanted DC's National Guard to be under control of the
Speaker 1: federal government. Because of that that Mutiny of seventeen eighty three,
Speaker 1: But the exact opposite thing happened on January six, because
Speaker 1: d C and the Capital wanted the d C National
Speaker 1: Guard and definitely would have activated them and brought him
Speaker 1: out hours before, but the federal government at the time
Speaker 1: kept them from doing that because they were under federal control.
Speaker 1: So that was one that really just kind of pointed out, like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: this is harmful, this is not good. UM. The other
Speaker 1: way that it was pointed out was kind of the
Speaker 1: opposite of that, where during the Black Lives Matter protests
Speaker 1: in the summer of after the murder of George Floyd
Speaker 1: UM and people took to the streets in d C.
Speaker 1: They were um, they were basically beating out of the streets,
Speaker 1: harassed out of the streets, used tear gas on um
Speaker 1: by the DC National Guard that was deployed by the
Speaker 1: federal government. Whereas you can pretty much guess that if
Speaker 1: Muriel Bowser had been the governor of the state of
Speaker 1: DC rather than just the mayor and had the power
Speaker 1: over the National Guard, those National Guard troops would not
Speaker 1: have been deployed against those protesters. So both of those
Speaker 1: events just in within months of one another, um, so
Speaker 1: the protests were in the insurrection was in the beginning
Speaker 1: of one. Yeah, that was this year. It's nuts, I think, really,
Speaker 1: I thought seems longer. This year has been a long
Speaker 1: decade him. But both of those, both of those events
Speaker 1: have pointed out like because of that mutiny of three,
Speaker 1: those things were able to happen the way that they did.
Speaker 1: Really really interesting. Yeah it is so now you guys
Speaker 1: know DC statehood. You make up your own mind about it.
Speaker 1: But them's the facts, just the facts. And since I
Speaker 1: said them's the facts, it's time of course everybody for
Speaker 1: listener mail. I'm gonna call this baby shout out. You
Speaker 1: don't do a lot of shout outs, but this is
Speaker 1: kind of special, I think, because this is a future
Speaker 1: shout out. I've been a long time listener and in
Speaker 1: January I had a baby. Who is your youngest listener.
Speaker 1: While I was pregnant, I worked as an assistant manager
Speaker 1: local horse boarding facility near Augusta, Georgia, And every morning
Speaker 1: when I fed the horses, I put my phone uh
Speaker 1: in my phone belt and turned on stuff. You should know,
Speaker 1: babies can hear nearby sounds in the womb. So Clara
Speaker 1: has been listening as long as she has been able
Speaker 1: to hear. Uh. Now we listen to stuff you should
Speaker 1: know during our afternoon walks together. If an episode finishes
Speaker 1: before it's over, Clara will sign and ask for more.
Speaker 1: You know that little toddler sign like which is the best?
Speaker 1: I know? It's adorable. I didn't realize it was the thing.
Speaker 1: And then one of you's best friends, Um taught her kids,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, that's really cool. Yeah. We
Speaker 1: did some basic stuff. We didn't get too involved, but
Speaker 1: there was a little bit of that early on. Man,
Speaker 1: kids are so neat these days. They're so neat. Uh
Speaker 1: not like us. We were just dummies. They're like, here,
Speaker 1: here's oatmeal and a television we've played with the stick
Speaker 1: in a wheel. Back to the mail. I would love
Speaker 1: for her to have a shout out on an episode,
Speaker 1: so one day we can go back and listen to
Speaker 1: her episode. So, uh, Clara, your episode is on DC Statehood.
Speaker 1: Maybe things will be different then? Yeah, wouldn't that be something?
Speaker 1: That would be something? But this is from Karas Texador
Speaker 1: and she just says, thanks for all we do. We
Speaker 1: really helped build the long arms of COVID shutdown at
Speaker 1: home with an infant and for helping making learning new
Speaker 1: things fun. That is Carris Texadore. Great name. That's awesome.
Speaker 1: Thanks Kris, definitely a great name. You sound like the
Speaker 1: last Starfighter or something that's right. And hello little Carla.
Speaker 1: I hope you keep listening in. Uh, I hope by
Speaker 1: the time your twenty we're still doing this show. No,
Speaker 1: maybe not by then recently retired. Yeah, I will be seventy. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess that's right. Yeah. So yeah, thank you very
Speaker 1: much for writing in. Carris and Carla. Best wishes to
Speaker 1: you on a fantastic life. And if you want to
Speaker 1: get in touch with this, like Harris and Carla did,
Speaker 1: you can send us an email to Stuff podcast at
Speaker 1: iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a
Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio,
Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.