WEBVTT - This is Not Normal 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.600 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:20.280 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Pre recording from the Home Bunker. So, folks, 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:23.680 of the time of this recording, Donald Trump has yet 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:26.560 to be indicted for a third time, and so we 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:30.600 remain on indictment Watch. And I just got to pull 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:33.400 back for a second, because I tell you that all 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:36.800 of this shit has just become way too normalized for us. 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:40.360 That a former president of the United States twice in 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:43.959 peach president of the United States who's been found guilty 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:49.600 of defamation and rape, a person that has stolen documents 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:53.080 from the federal government and refused to return them. Somebody 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:55.560 who made a phone call that said, hey, find me 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:59.080 eleven thousand, two hundred and seventy some odd votes. A 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:02.160 person that has use their broke down fucking Twitter in 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:08.680 order to harass and degrade and defame regular just poll 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:12.600 workers who wanted to do good by their community. That 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:15.440 we're on indictment Watch number three, and frankly, by the 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:18.399 end of the summer beginning of fall, he could have 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:21.600 been indicted for a fourth time. Because we have also 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:25.480 have eyes on Fannie Willis in Georgia, and as we 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:28.240 continue to talk about these things. I think it is 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:33.520 important to remind ourselves that this shit should not be normal. 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:39.440 And the fact that Kevin McCarthy, with his Fisher Price gabble, 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:44.000 is sitting around pontificating on whether or not he's going 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:47.640 to open up an impeachment inquiry into Joe Biden for 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:51.360 no other reason but to appease his master Donald Trump, 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:57.120 just shows you how degraded our politics have become. And 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.760 so I understand when people are like, I'm done and 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:02.240 I want to turn off from this, But it is 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:05.840 more important than ever that we pay attention to what 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:11.959 is happening. Just this week, Greg Abbott down in Texas 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:14.480 has decided that guess what he's gonna do as governor. 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:18.880 He's reading all public schools of libraries. What is he 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:23.880 putting in their place detention centers. So when we say 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:28.280 that these motherfuckers are fascists, that they are authoritarians, look 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:30.840 at what they are doing to our public schools. Because 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:35.639 who will this affect Because white people with means will 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:38.480 pull their children out of public schools, which is what 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:42.520 the Republicans have wanted, which is why they've been defunding 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:46.880 public education for the last several decades, they'll pull their 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.120 kids out, and the ones that will be subjected to 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:53.520 the lies right and to the discipline will be black 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:57.440 and brown children. Folks, this set up and the rig 0:02:57.639 --> 0:02:59.799 is in, and it's up to all of us to 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:03.920 pay attention. Coming up next, my conversation with friend of 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:08.519 the show Gentobb, our friend and lawyer who we look 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:12.120 to to kind of help us understand the legal woes 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:15.360 that Donald Trump is facing and the legal woes the 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:23.840 nation is facing because of our grifting ass illegal Supreme Court. 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:32.000 That conversation is coming up next, Folks. I am always 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:37.600 so happy when one of my friends, fellow nerd Avenger, 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.760 just fellow colleague in the space who loses their mind 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:46.120 a regular bathists try to keep drek with the news cycle. 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:50.520 Gentob joins wo k F daily. You know her. She's 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:53.280 a law professor and the author of Big Dirty Money 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:56.560 and Other People's Houses, and she is the host of 0:03:56.840 --> 0:04:04.240 booked Up with Gentobb Again, Danielle, Where to begin in 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:10.400 all honesty in the legal landscape or minefield that is 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:17.560 America these days? But because I don't have my medication present, 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:20.520 let's not talk about the Supreme Court, shall we. Let's 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:27.000 just talk about the Donald Trump. But so here's what 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:32.679 we know. Judge Alien Cannon who should have recused herself 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:38.320 but didn't and is still overseeing Jack Smith's documents case 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:40.560 against Donald Trump. Folks, I know that there are so 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:43.120 many cases, so it's hard to keep track, but let 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:46.880 us start with the document's case has set a court 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:52.000 date for May twenty fourth, I believe twenty twenty four. 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:58.360 So five twenty four, twenty four. Ha ha on usu, Jen, 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:04.880 what do you make Aileen Cannons moves thus far? Uh 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:08.920 in this in this case and whether or not we 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:13.200 will we'll see pushback from the Department of Justice by 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.799 way of Jack Smith because he said he was ready 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:18.320 to go in December. We knew that that was unlikely. 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:22.839 But but where what are you thinking so far about 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:25.800 her moves and then the timing of this trial. 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:30.240 Well, in my past life, Danielle, like I don't know, 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:34.919 pre COVID, pre Trump, and even maybe up until a 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:37.280 few weeks ago, I tend to be a glass half 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:42.720 full person. Now I'm a the glass has been smashed 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:47.000 into pieces against the wall and I'm just drinking coffee 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:51.440 straight from straight to the staff. You know, kind of 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:55.479 person so but that being said, I am trying to 0:05:55.560 --> 0:06:01.120 find the silver lining in the storm cloud that Eileen 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:05.160 Cannon has created for the future of democracy because May 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:09.000 twenty four, twenty twenty four, there's only one good two 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:12.440 good things about that date. One that's literally the last 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:15.840 I think, like the last day, like when grades are 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:19.240 due spring semester for my classes, so like I will 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.000 be done teaching. So if that's going to take over 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.760 all of my time, I'm ready. That's but you know, 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:30.599 that's the one good thing, hardly enough to recommend the date. 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:33.200 But the other good thing is it is so far 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:38.279 out there as a preliminary date that I'm hoping that 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:44.560 Jack Smith is ready to go on the insurrection case 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:46.800 on the January sixth case, that we expect to be 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:49.919 charged any day now, and that a judge in DC 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:53.720 sees it as perfect timing. There's no In other words, 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:57.640 the reason why, as you know, that the Justice Department 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:00.880 pushed out the date to December from the judge's original 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:04.080 summer date, which wasn't going to happen, was because there's 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:08.040 some complications around how to share top secret type documents 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:13.280 that will not be the case in the January sixth indictment, 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:17.600 you know. And I think the Justice Department has brought 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:23.560 hundreds of cases involving the rioters and has already the 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:28.600 benefit of, as you know, the special Committee investigating the 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:32.680 attack on the Capitol. They have done incredible amounts of 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:36.080 work even before this Special Council got involved. I think 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:39.720 they're ready to go one day in DT. So my 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:45.080 hope is they ask for a November date, October even 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:50.800 for that case. So the again, the only true other 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:54.160 than the selfish motive, the only true good thing about 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:56.640 May twenty fourth is it gives the opportunity a wide 0:07:56.680 --> 0:08:00.440 open field to bring the most important case again, this 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.360 guy which is trying to stage a coup to stay 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:08.120 in office, and the you know, ongoing lie that that 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:12.200 is associated with all that, all the time between the 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:16.440 November election when he lost, through the attack on the 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:19.200 Capitol and his role, all of that is feeding into 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:22.400 his campaign and the undermining of what little we have 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:27.440 left of our democratic institution. So that's the bright note. Now, 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:31.320 if there I am hoping he asks for October or 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:34.880 November or December date. If Jack Smith doesn't, you know, 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:37.280 I give up, I really do. I don't know what 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:37.880 to tell you. 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:41.880 So, I mean, we have a couple of things that 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:47.360 are brewing, right, and I think one of them, uh 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:52.120 is the fact that on Donald Trump's broke ass Twitter 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:55.360 that I refer to, I guess he truth's on there. 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:58.760 I don't really know what one does on that apparatus, 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:04.040 but on that application. But you know, he sent out 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:10.760 a real ominous and threatening video the other day which 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:14.400 was basically saying, if you come for us, will come 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:19.120 for you. We're not afraid. You know which, Jen, I'm 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:21.600 no lawyer, That's why I have you on the show. 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:30.920 But he seems to be doing the same exact things 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:35.840 that he did prior to January sixth. With the rollout 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:40.360 of these indictments, you know, he sends up a flare, 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:45.280 all of mainstream media jumps on the Trump train right, 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:48.040 giving him once again all just the free press that 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:52.080 he needs. He uses that attention to then send out 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.920 threats to Jack Smith and to others, and then sends 0:09:55.960 --> 0:10:03.840 out this video basically another digital stand back and stand by. 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:09.320 So tell me how these kinds of things can be 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:15.439 used in a court of law that he's doing. 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:20.959 I think, once there is an indictment, assuming there is one, 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:28.280 and there's a judge assigned that judge can issue in 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:34.120 theory a kind of gag order related to specifically making 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:41.400 threats to the prosecutor specifically related to other kind of 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:46.160 I would say incitement activity. And the question is, you know, 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:48.120 will the judge, Will the judge do that? 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:49.480 Uh? 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:53.240 You know, the the he's gotten away with so much, 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:57.240 and a judge has to be careful in what they 0:10:57.280 --> 0:10:59.960 do because if they're not going to actually enforce in order, 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:04.320 then it becomes a victory for him. You know, what 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:06.439 does that look like in other words, of a judge 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:11.160 makes an order and then some sort of contempt citation 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:13.559 against them, is you know, is he going to actually 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:16.880 bring him into court? You know, we saw similar activity 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:21.880 during the Carol II trial. It was Carol two because 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.280 it was brought second even though charged you know, she 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:29.640 filed the the defamation and sexual assault case. This was 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:32.000 the second case, even though it went first. And there 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:34.720 were things that you know, the Donald Trump was doing 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:37.960 on Twitter, and the judge I was in the courtroom, 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:40.520 you know, said to his lawyers, you got to talk 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:43.880 to your client, and sometimes he took down what he 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:47.200 was saying off Twitter. But then when he continued that 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.520 behavior after he lost the case. Now that's become part 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.480 of the next case. I mean, Carol won, It's been 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:54.400 added to that case against him. Now this is all 0:11:54.440 --> 0:12:00.000 about a civil case, right, You're more concerned about him standbacks, 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:05.760 stand by kind of language actually creating violence. I remain 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:09.520 a little bit less concerned because when he was indicted 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:16.720 his first federal indictment, as opposed to the Manhattan DA indictment, 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:20.520 the first federal grand jury indictment, we didn't see that 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:24.959 much support for him around the courthouse in Florida. Now 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:29.839 I realized this is probably this is different because these 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:32.520 are the same people, right, this is all about But however, 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:36.040 there are a lot of people who were charged and 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.000 either serve time or are going to serve time, who 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:43.280 feel abandoned by Donald Trump, in other words, he so 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:45.720 they may not come and also they may themselves not 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.240 want to get arrested again. So we've got to think 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:52.319 about that. So I don't know if you're if you're worried. 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:56.439 You know, the thing is, I wasn't stating that as 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.040 a way to say that I'm worried that his words 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.880 will incite the same type of violence as January sixth. 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:08.600 It was really about whether or not the prosecution can 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:13.400 show a pattern of behavior and did, Yeah, a pattern 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:20.360 of behavior and basic intent with his continued language. Now 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:26.720 you could have yeah, because my thought was if Donald Trump, 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.920 let's say, had been a normal human being and you're 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:33.679 caught doing something and then you decide I'm going to 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:37.120 back away from that said behavior, so that my attorneys 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:39.680 can say that this was an isolated event, caught up 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:43.840 in passion whatever bullshit kind of you know, defense is 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.920 going to be created. You could say that that was 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:52.000 an isolated event. But over the last few years, since 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:56.720 January sixth, we've watched Donald Trump continue to use social 0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:06.680 media as a way to either virtually assault people, right, 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.080 make them a target in an attack, the same way 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:19.200 that he did with the voting staff in uh in Georgia. Right. 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.880 And so my question really is like, how is the process? 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:28.240 How do you feel how can the prosecution use Donald 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:32.520 Trump's continued behavior or there for their case. 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:34.440 Yes, so it's more of a legal analysis that you're 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:38.160 asking me for. So, yeah, so two ways. One if 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.120 they if the prosecution wants to bring in evidence like 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:43.320 as a pattern of behavior, this is how he tries 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:49.640 to obstruct and try to stir up violence in terms 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.600 of admitting evidence that his lawyers are obviously gonna want 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:54.680 to exclude that kind of evidence, and they want to 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:58.200 narrow what jury can hear, right, And so the tension 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:02.160 and our rules of federal rules of evidence is, first 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:04.720 of all, only things that are considered relevant can be admitted. 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:07.520 This would obviously, you know, I think it's relevant to 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:11.520 his intent and so on. So but the next thing is, 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:13.920 and of course the other side, his defense will say 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:16.480 it's not. But even if a judge thinks it's relevant, 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:20.560 the judge then has to decide whether something is two 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:25.440 what's called too prejudicial to be probative. It's this concept 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:29.840 of you know, for example, when a defendant is trial 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:34.520 for a particular let's say, you know, breaking into a 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:38.160 grocery store to steal formula for their kid or something, 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.560 God forbid we prosecute for that, you know, whether they 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:45.640 had been caught doing, you know, shoplifting something else at 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.360 a different time. You know, if a jury gets to 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:50.680 hear the other shoplifting, it's going to make them think, oh, 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:53.160 this is a bad person. I'm going to convict them. 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:55.280 And so the defense is going to want to say, 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:57.360 you know, that's not really relevant. What they were shoplifting 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:02.360 before was you know, I don't know Amazon, you know, 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:04.760 gift cards or whatever, and that just has nothing to 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:09.360 do with this. However, you know, the idea would be, well, 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:11.640 if the way that this person did this was similar, 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:13.720 then we can look for a pattern of behavior. But 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:16.240 the idea is it's relevant because it shows this person 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:18.440 has the intent to take things that aren't theirs. But 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:22.720 a lot of judges would exclude that earlier, that earlier 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:25.280 evidence because they would say, you know, that's going to 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:29.320 make a jury try him for being a bad person, 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:31.200 and we don't do that in America. You're supposed to 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:34.200 be tried for your your actual offenses. So it's going 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:36.400 to really be up to what a jury, what the 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:38.560 judge is, and how the judge rules. So that's going 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:40.760 to be an evidentiary battle. The second way, though, I 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:45.680 think is interesting, is if his tweeting or his it's 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:48.320 not even tweeting xing, or his his what is it 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:51.600 that we call him now is true thing? Whatever? If? 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:57.920 What if his public statements are directed toward this particular case, 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.480 and it could be seen as trying to influence witnesses 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:07.080 or tamper with them or somehow create threats against physical 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.240 or other threats against jurors or the court. That could 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.640 be its own kind of separate case, you know. And 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:15.880 I don't know if you saw this, but the other 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:18.879 day I saw, like, was it Mike Huckabee? Did you 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:21.320 see this thing going around on threads like he put up? 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:23.240 It could have been on true Social maybe it was 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:26.080 an interview on the news, but what I saw is 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:29.560 he was on air or something saying the most important 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:34.000 values are loyalty, and he was like saying it was 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:36.480 a very weird, like if you don't get it, like 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:40.919 they're all out there sending signals for people to not 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:45.199 not squeal, you know, not rat out the mob boss. 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:50.040 And the closer he gets to this prospect of being 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.720 convicted for something in federal court and maybe he believes 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:56.080 jail time, which I don't think would happen. But the 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:58.680 closer he gets to that, the more desperate his moves 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:00.959 will become. And so I think we should keep our 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:02.879 eye on both both avenues. 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:10.399 So let's now take a little trip down south to 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:16.200 Georgia right where we are waiting yet and again, folks, 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:19.240 you know, Jen and I are having this conversation at 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:22.800 a time when they're when you know, we're doing our 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.040 best to read the tea leaves and shake a magic 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:27.200 eight ball, but we have no idea when and if 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.880 these things are actually coming down the pike. My assumption 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:33.480 is yes, it is why from Georgia because Fanni Willis 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:36.440 had sent up a flare months ago telling us that 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:42.119 between July and September for law enforcement to prepare, so 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:48.439 we know that those things are are underway. Part of 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:54.680 Jen I guess the rumors that are circulating is that 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:59.639 Fannie Willis the DA in Georgia could potentially be looking 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:05.560 at racketeering charges. So Jen talk to us about this, 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:10.560 what if this big? What if that we don't know yet? 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:13.160 Why would this be a BFD. 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:19.720 Well, it would be a BFD because of what activity 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:24.879 you can scoop up once you decide something is racketeering 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:29.879 or a racketeering conspiracy. So there is a federal RICO law, 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:34.680 and there are than state ones. And the people think 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:40.440 of RICO Racketeering Influenced Corrupt Organizations Act law, they think 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:44.680 of it as being something to get organized crime. But 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:47.680 that's not the only thing it can be used for. 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:54.600 And the idea with racketeering is that you the law, 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:57.479 whether it's the Georgia one or the federal one, is 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:06.440 designed to criminalize, to create, criminalize a pattern of racketeering activity. 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:08.919 So that's how the language works. And then you have 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.600 to say, well, what is racketeering activity and what is 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:14.240 a pattern? Well, racketeering activity at the federal level is 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:16.160 a little bit different at the state the federal level. 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:19.199 The reason why RICO was established is so that you 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:22.760 could turn into a federal crime or a pattern of 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:28.359 state criminal behavior, so as well as a series of 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:31.720 different federal crimes, so that we call them predicate offenses. 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:35.080 So all of a sudden, someone who's just committing crimes 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:39.040 like doing you know, black met or bribery or shaking 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:42.439 people down, or murder. At the state level, you know, 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:45.159 murdering people, you could now say, well, murder's usually a 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:49.200 state offense. But now if it's a pattern of racketeering activity, 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:52.639 if it's a if you have an enterprise, which is 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:56.320 you know, a group of two or more people working 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:59.639 together to commit a series of murders, now all of 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:01.399 a sudden and instead of just a state crime, you 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:03.720 could charge that at the federal level. Right, or kidnapping. 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:07.320 So think of that. That's the federal way. Similarly, things 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:12.440 like wirefraud or counterfeiting or all kinds of other federal offenses. 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:14.560 If someone is a pattern of it, if you call it, 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:17.560 you call it a pattern of racketeering activity. Now, what 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:20.439 you've done, if you've said, okay, Danielle, if you're at 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:22.760 the hub of this group, if you're in charge of 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:26.960 you know this activity. You if you set up this 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:30.439 sort of racketeering enterprise and you're either making money or 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:34.760 benefiting from this kind of behavior, even if you were 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:39.359 not involved in all these underlying things, if you're part 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:43.159 of this rico enterprise, you now can be tagged with 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:45.560 all this other stuff. It's a way of creating a 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:49.080 web around a sort of amorphous activity where you cannot see. 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:51.560 So let's put Donald Trump at the center of this, 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:54.440 and let's look at the Let's look at the efforts 0:21:54.480 --> 0:22:00.479 to change the vote count in Georgia. The reason why racketeering. Now, 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:03.399 let's look at the state level. The reason why racketeering 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:07.000 would be helpful is if if RICO at the state, 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:10.080 at the Georgia level, is also criminalizing a pattern of 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:13.640 racketeering activity. Rico at the Georgia level has a whole 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:17.800 bunch of other types of crimes state crimes, and some 0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:21.440 of those are the you know, the activities that people 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:24.480 like Giuliani and anyone he. 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:26.680 Was working with Graham, Lindsey. 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:29.239 Graham, or maybe any of the electors. And so all 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:30.720 of a sudden, you have all these people doing all 0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:34.480 these different activities that were all furthering the efforts of 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:37.840 Donald Trump to overturn the election in Georgia. And Rico 0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:40.160 helps because you might if you cannot find a phone 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:42.800 call where every single person who did bad things in 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:45.760 this puzzle was told by Donald Trump to do it, 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:50.320 it doesn't really matter. Creating this Rico theory, this Rico enterprise, 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:53.879 you could now create liability for him. I don't know 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:55.560 if that makes sense to you. That's what I'm trying 0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:57.840 to So that's why it's sort of a big deal. 0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:05.120 And you know, it just as layers of liability and 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:08.000 just yet another crime. And it also sounds bad. But 0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:11.320 remember he already settled Rico state Rico charges with his 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:15.840 fake university. You know, it's not like he hasn't been 0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:18.360 tagged with RICO before. I just think people like they 0:23:18.359 --> 0:23:20.679 think it sounds they think it sounds scary. But the 0:23:20.720 --> 0:23:24.240 other thing is that Fawnie Willis has had success using 0:23:24.280 --> 0:23:27.119 the Georgia Rico statute before. Wasn't she involved in the 0:23:27.200 --> 0:23:31.280 whole thing about teachers cheating helping students cheat on exams? Yes, 0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:32.520 So again, when you. 0:23:32.520 --> 0:23:35.840 Have an organized crime ring, it doesn't need to be 0:23:36.040 --> 0:23:38.879 a mob. It doesn't need to be a mob association. 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:41.760 Hollywood has allowed us to make that connection, but that 0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:45.440 is not the only connection that it has. And if 0:23:45.480 --> 0:23:47.840 we're looking and we're talking about all the ways in 0:23:47.880 --> 0:23:53.320 which Donald Trump has a legal tsunami against him, it 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:56.119 is to pull back and say, this is an organized 0:23:56.160 --> 0:24:00.760 crime ring that has engulfed an entire political party. And 0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:04.119 there are many mechanisms, much in the same way that 0:24:04.440 --> 0:24:09.959 you know, organized crime members have different hands in different jars. 0:24:10.480 --> 0:24:13.440 And what's super interesting is when you say organized crime ring, 0:24:13.720 --> 0:24:16.560 will become super interesting is how is the ring defined? 0:24:16.760 --> 0:24:19.040 Who's in it right and who's not in it right? 0:24:19.080 --> 0:24:23.040 Because because that will tell us more about you know, 0:24:23.280 --> 0:24:27.320 who flipped who didn't based on whether they're charged or not. 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:28.639 And you know, we've got to go back to that 0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:32.600 to remember this special grand jury report when that woman 0:24:33.119 --> 0:24:36.919 was making the rounds who was absolutely giddy going on television. Yeah, 0:24:37.040 --> 0:24:38.960 so she told us, you know, there aren't going to 0:24:38.960 --> 0:24:41.159 be any plot twists. There are lots of people's names. 0:24:41.240 --> 0:24:43.359 Were not going to be surprised to see them. You know, 0:24:43.600 --> 0:24:44.879 I would like to see those. 0:24:48.040 --> 0:24:51.919 And lastly, Jen, just to think about all the ways 0:24:51.920 --> 0:24:55.840 in which for a normal person the walls would be 0:24:55.880 --> 0:24:59.199 closing in and this would just amount to, you know, 0:25:00.240 --> 0:25:02.800 guilty verdict after guilty verdict. But we know that in 0:25:02.960 --> 0:25:05.919 the America that we live in, where rich, white cis 0:25:05.960 --> 0:25:09.280 hetero men, very rarely are held to account, let alone 0:25:09.320 --> 0:25:12.520 those that were former presidents of the United States. I 0:25:12.520 --> 0:25:15.080 want to turn your attention to Michigan for a moment 0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:22.520 and the sixteen sixteen Republican of fake electors who were 0:25:22.560 --> 0:25:27.840 caught up in that scheme, who were charged with felonies 0:25:28.160 --> 0:25:32.560 for their quote for their role in the alleged false 0:25:32.600 --> 0:25:36.640 electors scheme. How does that How does what is happening 0:25:36.680 --> 0:25:43.160 in Michigan tie into what is happening in Georgia and 0:25:43.200 --> 0:25:47.880 as a larger part of this overall twenty twenty scheme 0:25:48.720 --> 0:25:49.960 by Trump and company. 0:25:51.160 --> 0:25:53.160 Yeah, I mean it tells me I mean, first of all, 0:25:53.160 --> 0:25:56.119 I'm so proud of the women from my home state. 0:25:57.080 --> 0:26:00.159 You know, you know, we don't come to play. I 0:26:00.160 --> 0:26:04.359