Speaker 1: Hey, Dina, Hi Mark. So what are we talking about today?
Speaker 1: We are going to talk about bioplastics. Specifically, we're going
Speaker 1: to be talking about a report called Bioplastics Primer Market
Speaker 1: Overview by being a fantaist called il Hansa Vout. So
Speaker 1: when I read this yesterday, I feel like I understood it,
Speaker 1: you know, I got it, but I don't think I
Speaker 1: quite got it right. It didn't click for me until
Speaker 1: last night. So I was home cooking dinner, listening to
Speaker 1: the news as I always do, and it kind of
Speaker 1: throw away story caught my attention. It was really, you know,
Speaker 1: just a few lines stating that Malaysia was sending back
Speaker 1: three thousand tons of illegally imported plastic waste to the UK, US, Australia, Japan,
Speaker 1: France and Canada. The Environment Minister of Maljia said Malaysia
Speaker 1: will no longer be a dumping ground of the world,
Speaker 1: and it seems other countries are following me suit. So Thailand,
Speaker 1: the Philippines, Indonesia are all sending back plastic waste to
Speaker 1: all these places um and refusing to accept more. Now,
Speaker 1: what does make it into these countries often gets illegally
Speaker 1: incinerated or sits in the landfill, so only a small
Speaker 1: fraction gets recycled. So bioplastics, this seems what happened, or
Speaker 1: what well could happen when Western countries are forced to
Speaker 1: reckon with not being able to sweep their plastic under
Speaker 1: the rug anymore. It's really coming from everywhere. Yeah, we've
Speaker 1: we've got materials everywhere, and the reality is that when
Speaker 1: you throw something away, there is always in a way.
Speaker 1: So whether that a way is us shipping it to
Speaker 1: different country, whether that away is it unfortunately ending up
Speaker 1: in the ocean. So there have been a lot of
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of recent attention on social media
Speaker 1: and in the news about the Pacific guy or so
Speaker 1: if you've not heard of this, uh, this is a
Speaker 1: Texas size lump of floating plastic waste in the ocean.
Speaker 1: And it's typically followed up with some sort of picture
Speaker 1: of something like a sea turtle that's wrestling with a
Speaker 1: single use plastic bag or a straw, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's this very confronting image of human waste going
Speaker 1: into what we consider, you know, pristine natural spaces that
Speaker 1: are no longer pristine become because of it. So I
Speaker 1: think we can spend a lot of time talking about waste,
Speaker 1: but hopefully today what we're gonna do is really actually
Speaker 1: get much more into bioplastics and what some of the
Speaker 1: innovators are doing to create different materials both from different
Speaker 1: sources or can be ultimately because of how they're made
Speaker 1: treated differently end of life bioplastics. There's just an existing
Speaker 1: small part of the market right now, but let's explore
Speaker 1: what the future could potentially hold on this and really
Speaker 1: what bioplastics are, because that's something that until I read
Speaker 1: this note, I wasn't clear on and I thought I was.
Speaker 1: So if you want to read Bioplastics Primer Market Overview
Speaker 1: by Ihan Savut, you can find it on biennef dot
Speaker 1: com or biennfs mobile app by just searching for the
Speaker 1: title of the note, or on the Bloomberg terminal at
Speaker 1: b an ef go. If you're not a client, shoot
Speaker 1: us an email at sales dot BNF at Bloomberg dot net.
Speaker 1: And just a quick reminder that BENNF does not provide
Speaker 1: investment or strategy advice, and you can hear a full
Speaker 1: disclaimer at the end of our show. So I'm Dana
Speaker 1: Perkins and I'm Mark Taylor and you're listening to Switch
Speaker 1: on the NF Client podcast. Joining us today is Dr
Speaker 1: Julia Atwood, who is our head of Advanced Materials here
Speaker 1: at b n EF. Welcome to the show, Julia, thanks
Speaker 1: for having me back. Guys, can you start us off
Speaker 1: today by by just telling us what bioplastics are? I mean,
Speaker 1: so we read the note, we think we get bioplastics.
Speaker 1: I read it twice. Okay, there you go. It's still
Speaker 1: use this question. Okay. It's a complicated space, so it's
Speaker 1: totally understandable that you guys are needing to read it over.
Speaker 1: It's complicated because there is an entire world of plastics.
Speaker 1: So we're going to break it down into four types.
Speaker 1: There's the regular everyday plastics that you see all the time,
Speaker 1: and they're made from fossil fuels and they do not biodegrade.
Speaker 1: Then you have some very very special fossil fuel based
Speaker 1: plastics that do biodegrade. They're called PBS and p BAT.
Speaker 1: They're a little weird. We're not going to talk about
Speaker 1: them too much. Then you have your bio based world
Speaker 1: of plastics. Plastics are just made up of carbon and
Speaker 1: hydrogen and a bunch of other additives. So really they
Speaker 1: can come from any source where you have those two things,
Speaker 1: and a lot of those are bio based, like old
Speaker 1: biomass or sugarcane or corn. So within the plastics that
Speaker 1: are made from biosources, you have the ones that will biodegrade,
Speaker 1: and they are called substitutes, and these are brand new plastics.
Speaker 1: And then you have your bio based plastics that are
Speaker 1: called drop ins, and they are chemically identical from the
Speaker 1: standard polypropylene polyethylene that you would get from a fossil field.
Speaker 1: So they're called drop ins because you can just put
Speaker 1: them straight into your product, no different treatment required once
Speaker 1: you get the material made. Now, my understanding of bioplastics
Speaker 1: when I heard the term was they were going to
Speaker 1: be this universe of things that we interact with that
Speaker 1: are both made from organic materials and biodegrade fairly quickly.
Speaker 1: Is there a ven diagram of these things or does
Speaker 1: everything sit in one of these two buckets that you
Speaker 1: just described. There is a vend diagram, especially in terms
Speaker 1: what happens at the end of its life, because some
Speaker 1: plastics you can just put out in your compost heap
Speaker 1: and then they will disappear, and that's like the home
Speaker 1: composting space. But a lot of them, especially the ones
Speaker 1: like p l A that are used very commonly, they
Speaker 1: have to go into a special industrial compost. So you
Speaker 1: still need to send it off with your city recycling
Speaker 1: so that it can go to a special facility. So
Speaker 1: do they want the people who are actually taking this
Speaker 1: and composting it or incinerating it and creating energy from it,
Speaker 1: whatever they're doing with it, do they want it because
Speaker 1: they get the byproduct at the end? Because I'm having
Speaker 1: these flashbacks to being a kid and having this you know,
Speaker 1: soda can and taking it in in California and getting
Speaker 1: five cents back and saying thinking, suddenly I'm rich because
Speaker 1: I have a bag of soda cans. Um. Are there
Speaker 1: people on a much bigger, more industrial plastics exactly? No,
Speaker 1: But are there companies that are seeing this as a
Speaker 1: really great opportunity for them to collect a new type
Speaker 1: of waste induced something with it at the end, Well,
Speaker 1: that's a tough one because really bioplastics are a tiny,
Speaker 1: tiny fraction of the market there like one percent of
Speaker 1: the plastics market, and what we normally see for creating
Speaker 1: a new way stream and creating the business models around
Speaker 1: that is that you need to have like five to
Speaker 1: ten of what you're selling being that. So before you
Speaker 1: have like a bio based polyethylene specified recycling stream, you
Speaker 1: need to sell a lot more of it. Most of
Speaker 1: the people who are buying these bioplastics are doing it
Speaker 1: for sustainability reasons, or because there are extended producer requirements legislations,
Speaker 1: or because there are extra taxes that they can escape
Speaker 1: by using a bio friendly plastic. So what's the political
Speaker 1: momentum to get it to that five percent? Is it
Speaker 1: one of these things where everybody is really looking at
Speaker 1: this is a is a new industry and governments are
Speaker 1: wanting a plastic alternative or they kind of been different
Speaker 1: to it, or is it what we talked about in
Speaker 1: the intro? Is it? Is it the Philippines and Indonesia?
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's a combination of those things. I would
Speaker 1: say the policy is not as developed as it was
Speaker 1: for something like biofuels, where you had these blending requirements.
Speaker 1: We're not seeing anything like that yet, partly because the
Speaker 1: environmental lobby is split between the people who want to
Speaker 1: encourage recycling and the people who want to encourage bioplastics.
Speaker 1: So where we do see governments getting behind this, it's
Speaker 1: typically where there's a big national champion and a lot
Speaker 1: of agriculture. And the country that is sticking in my
Speaker 1: head here is really Brazil. So brass Cam makes most
Speaker 1: of the world's biopoly athlete. They're by far the dominant producer,
Speaker 1: and that's because there's just so much biomass in Brazil,
Speaker 1: so it's great for them, and then people who want
Speaker 1: to get off oil. So Japan has some legislation around it,
Speaker 1: but really the policy has focused much more on you
Speaker 1: have to have plastics with SAT recycled material in it,
Speaker 1: or we're going to tax you. That's what they're suggesting
Speaker 1: in the UK that there are a lot of ways
Speaker 1: to deal with the waste issue. End of life. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think I was reading yesterday UM statistic that in
Speaker 1: two thifteen I'm sure the number is different now of
Speaker 1: plastic waste was just discarded and not actually dealt with. Now,
Speaker 1: whatever that actual number is for each individual locale, there's
Speaker 1: definitely a lot of stuff that needs to be dealt
Speaker 1: with end of life read I read yesterday the stat
Speaker 1: now is only nine gets recycled. Yeah, that's because some
Speaker 1: people sometimes consider incinerating plastic as recycling it because it's
Speaker 1: being used for power. It is having another use, but
Speaker 1: it's not going back into anybody's supply chain. Okay, So
Speaker 1: that's the way to deal with that. End of life's
Speaker 1: a bit of a stretch, isn't It depends on what
Speaker 1: you want to incentivize. If you just do not want landfills,
Speaker 1: at least you're getting something out of it. And the
Speaker 1: end of life is so tricky for bioplastics because we
Speaker 1: were talking about the methane earlier, and I mean, you
Speaker 1: guys will know methane is a much more potent greenhouse
Speaker 1: gas than carbon dioxide. So there are people in the
Speaker 1: other eye of the lobby who say, yeah, but we're
Speaker 1: locking carbon away in plastic from a fossil fuel and
Speaker 1: it sits there in a landfill inert, doesn't do anything,
Speaker 1: doesn't release any carbon, whereas these biodegradable ones at the
Speaker 1: end of their life, Yeah, you took carbon out of
Speaker 1: the air, but you put it straight back up or
Speaker 1: you create this mething. And so the end of life
Speaker 1: is something that people argue about a lot around bioplastics. Well,
Speaker 1: and let's talk a little bit about the traditional plastics
Speaker 1: that were used to dealing with and they sit in
Speaker 1: the landfill and presumably do nothing for a while unless
Speaker 1: they make their way into the ocean, and then we've
Speaker 1: got a different thing on our hands. But it was
Speaker 1: the Plastics Industry Association I think you were saying, referred
Speaker 1: to the term biodegradable as being equivalent to the word yummy,
Speaker 1: because it doesn't actually mean much of anything because it
Speaker 1: has to do with what timeline we're looking at. Now.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I agree or disagree with that definition
Speaker 1: of the word, as I think biodegradable actually does have
Speaker 1: a pretty good definition. But um, they do have a
Speaker 1: point there. If these bioplastics make their way into your
Speaker 1: home compost or more importantly, into the oceans, what happens
Speaker 1: to them? Do we need these end of life cycle
Speaker 1: people to really be thinking about what we're going to
Speaker 1: do with them or does it really vary? It's really
Speaker 1: not just to throw it away and we're good type
Speaker 1: thing like you would think of a banana peel. Because
Speaker 1: so many plastics are used to contain food and that
Speaker 1: means they're in contact with water. It often means they're
Speaker 1: in contact with heat and water and heat are kind
Speaker 1: of the things that you think about when something is degrading.
Speaker 1: So it's difficult for the producers because they want to
Speaker 1: make something that's easily biodegradable, but they have these mechanical
Speaker 1: and temperature requirements that they have to fulfill. So say
Speaker 1: p L A, which is the most common, one of
Speaker 1: the most common biodegradable plastics, if that ends up in
Speaker 1: the ocean, it's actually pretty water resistant. It's probably going
Speaker 1: to sit there for a very long time. And by
Speaker 1: a very long time, you mean hundred years, five hundred years,
Speaker 1: a thousand years, probably the scale of years. Because in
Speaker 1: ideal conditions, the technical standard for being biodegradable is that
Speaker 1: nine of the carbon contained in that material has to
Speaker 1: have been released as carbon dioxide after a hundred and
Speaker 1: eighty days. So there is a definition, there is, but
Speaker 1: it's a very it's a pretty loose one and it
Speaker 1: doesn't specify the conditions. Okay, so I'm thinking about where
Speaker 1: I've actually seen this stuff. So we're talking a bit
Speaker 1: about the end of life, but what about everybody who
Speaker 1: wants to make this stuff? So I'm thinking Christmas time,
Speaker 1: actually there was this vestas wind turbine made by Lego
Speaker 1: that my son really wanted from Santa Claus. You've raised
Speaker 1: your children well, Dana. It was. It was really fun
Speaker 1: because finally what mommy does for a living was cool, um,
Speaker 1: and he asked for it from Santa of all people.
Speaker 1: And one of the things they had pretty heavily advertised
Speaker 1: on the box was this bioplastic little the trees were
Speaker 1: made of bioplastics, and they're toying around with this idea
Speaker 1: of creating bioplastics, and who knows what that will end
Speaker 1: up doing too, Legos manufacturing I can't even begin to guess,
Speaker 1: given we've got mounds of Lego plastic in our house
Speaker 1: right now. Um. But what other companies you mentioned in
Speaker 1: the note that Coca Cola potentially has skin in the
Speaker 1: game here, and I'm thinking this is an opportunity. But
Speaker 1: but for who on the demand side, Anybody who's close
Speaker 1: to the consumer is now under a lot of pressure
Speaker 1: to make their products more sustainable. They have come under
Speaker 1: a lot of fire for plastics in the oceans, for
Speaker 1: port labor practices in some cases, for you know, artisanal
Speaker 1: mining in Africa. So everybody has this at the front
Speaker 1: of their mind, and bioplastics are a nice way for
Speaker 1: them to keep a material that's incredibly important to the
Speaker 1: consumer sector. Think about everything in your life it's made
Speaker 1: of plastics, while making it more sustainable. So Coca Cola
Speaker 1: was really the company that got the whole ball rolling
Speaker 1: on the bio pet side of things, because what the
Speaker 1: people making bioplastics desperately, desperately need is a champion. You
Speaker 1: have to have somebody raising their hand and saying I'm
Speaker 1: going to take fift your capacity before they will build
Speaker 1: a plant. I think the other companies that are likely
Speaker 1: to get into it are people in the clothing sector,
Speaker 1: people making packaging, the brand owners people like Unilever, Procter
Speaker 1: and Gamble, Nike, and from clothing, you mean because of
Speaker 1: all the packaging that comes in it, or actually to
Speaker 1: make the clothing itself, because what is it, something like
Speaker 1: six the world Economic forms at six of all the
Speaker 1: clothes that are manufactured have some sort of synthetic fiber. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a huge amount of signetic synthetic fibers out there.
Speaker 1: Not a lot of them are bio based at the
Speaker 1: moment um, but things like shoes, they're really interesting because
Speaker 1: they have a lot of different plastics in them. Um,
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's something that people are willing to spend
Speaker 1: quite a bit of money on. I know, my daddy's
Speaker 1: a big runner. He spends a ton of money on
Speaker 1: running shots. So it's a high value product and it's
Speaker 1: consumer base is pretty conscious of these things. The interesting
Speaker 1: outlier for me though, is Forward. Either of you guys
Speaker 1: drive a Forward, not as much as I'd like, so
Speaker 1: Forward is actually using bioplastics quite a bit. They're starting
Speaker 1: to blend them into the interiors, into the other plastic
Speaker 1: parts that they have in their car. You know, stuff
Speaker 1: is a little away from the engine. So that's an
Speaker 1: industry that hasn't made as much of a move towards bioplastics.
Speaker 1: But if Ford can kind of show them the way
Speaker 1: in terms of the supply chain and the design standards,
Speaker 1: then there are quite a few plastics and cars these days,
Speaker 1: and there's going to be more. Now, how about the
Speaker 1: other forms of packaging that I've been getting kind of
Speaker 1: some interest recently, well actually for a long time. So
Speaker 1: it what comes to mind from my standpoint is tetrapack,
Speaker 1: or how with all these plastic bag bands you're seeing
Speaker 1: a lot of places. Uh, the alternative seems to be
Speaker 1: paper bags, which instantly have a much higher carbon footprint,
Speaker 1: are bioplastics. And I know it's really hard to kind
Speaker 1: of extrapolate this out, given there are only one percent
Speaker 1: of this plastics market right now. But do you foresee
Speaker 1: them potentially encroaching in on the plastics market or do
Speaker 1: you see them encroaching in on these alternative things materials
Speaker 1: also biopackaging from paper or other things. If we want
Speaker 1: to give it another term, um, where do you see
Speaker 1: it really going or is it just gonna add additional
Speaker 1: capacity because I mean the world's going to go from
Speaker 1: seven billion to potentially ten or twelve billion people, and gosh,
Speaker 1: we need, we want materials. I think the alternatives that
Speaker 1: we have right now, some of them, like paper bags,
Speaker 1: I think they're a bit of a band aid measure
Speaker 1: because while there are people who can make bioplast sticks,
Speaker 1: there isn't actually that much active capacity, So the people
Speaker 1: who are buying them are worried about security of supply.
Speaker 1: So I think when you see a plastic bag band
Speaker 1: a lot of these companies, their first instinct is, oh
Speaker 1: my god, let's switch to paper because everybody knows where
Speaker 1: to get plastics, ready to get paper bags. Um, but
Speaker 1: the paper isn't as good a packaging material as plastics
Speaker 1: because you know, if your eggs break or your milk leaks,
Speaker 1: it starts to get really weak and then all of
Speaker 1: your oranges and bananas followed to the bottoms, So doesn't
Speaker 1: last as long. That's that's the thing. Plastics last forever. Yet, Um,
Speaker 1: those single used plastic bags, they can be used a
Speaker 1: couple of times, whereas a paper bag you get it
Speaker 1: wet toast. Yeah, and you've hit on exactly. The problem
Speaker 1: is that utilization has a huge impact on the overall
Speaker 1: carbon footprint of something, because when you think about a
Speaker 1: reusable water bottle that has a much much lower urban footprint,
Speaker 1: even though you need more and higher performance materials to
Speaker 1: make the thing in the first place, if you can
Speaker 1: kill demand for a lot of other things, then that
Speaker 1: gives you a big benefit in terms of carbon. So
Speaker 1: I might actually bypass that whole question and say I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: you know, cloth bags and getting everything delivered to your
Speaker 1: door in crates that you then put immediately into your fridge.
Speaker 1: Maybe the future, So on the performance end of things
Speaker 1: you reference in your research that they've cut kind of
Speaker 1: different performance characteristics. Could you talk about some of the
Speaker 1: benefits that bioplastics actually provide as And I don't know
Speaker 1: which of the two categories of bioplastics, but but which
Speaker 1: of these two categories has kind of a superior value
Speaker 1: to it that a consumer or even that a manufacturer
Speaker 1: may want in the market. The thing to remember is
Speaker 1: that the bio based plastics, so like biope biopet, it's
Speaker 1: exactly the same as So we're not going to notice
Speaker 1: the forens except I think I've interacted with some and
Speaker 1: they're slightly matt finish. Yeah, that's the only differences. The
Speaker 1: only avantage there for the substitution. This is the substitution
Speaker 1: is one right now, this is the drop in the
Speaker 1: drop in, so sorry, it's the only advantage there that
Speaker 1: you're not using oil to make it. Yes, and for
Speaker 1: some of them it's not even that they're totally oil free.
Speaker 1: So biopet, for example, is only bio based, so there's
Speaker 1: still quite a lot of oil in there. There are
Speaker 1: bio routes, but they're not commercially mature. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean the people who are making the packaging and using
Speaker 1: these materials. They see it as a benefit that they
Speaker 1: don't have to change their process at all. But on
Speaker 1: the other hand, the reason why the substitutes, so these
Speaker 1: are the new things like p l A and p
Speaker 1: h A, the reason why they can have better properties
Speaker 1: is because you're designing a brand new material, and so
Speaker 1: you can use additives or different processing methods to give
Speaker 1: you stuff that you didn't have before, so like better
Speaker 1: temperature resistance or better formability, or it can just be
Speaker 1: stronger and stiffer um or if you want them matt finish,
Speaker 1: you can have Matt initially a Christmas tree. So there
Speaker 1: are plastics engineers out there saying let's make packaging all
Speaker 1: kinds of different things, because we might just be able
Speaker 1: to make some more interesting stuff. Yeah, exactly, when you're saying,
Speaker 1: just what is a bioplastic, red flags went up in
Speaker 1: that seems like there's some dark secrets here. So land
Speaker 1: use water use food competition. Can you comment on that
Speaker 1: at all. Let me start with the food competition thing.
Speaker 1: They've started by using foods like corn and sugar and
Speaker 1: soybeans because that's the easiest thing to make it from.
Speaker 1: You know, it's a pretty rich source of the oils
Speaker 1: that they need. But there are a ton of startups
Speaker 1: out there who are working on second, third, fourth generation
Speaker 1: feedstocks like potato peel waste and carrot waste, all the
Speaker 1: stuff you don't want to use. I get a magazine
Speaker 1: that comes in a potato peel waiste sac. It's a
Speaker 1: children's magazine, but all saying, I'm imagining brown burlap coming
Speaker 1: through the hill plot. We do a dress water and
Speaker 1: land use in the note. So we have a chart
Speaker 1: where we're looking at the cradle to gate carbon footprint
Speaker 1: and comparing it to Patrick chemicals, and we have like
Speaker 1: a line and it's basically anything below this line is
Speaker 1: better for the environment. We take into account water and
Speaker 1: land using carbon footprint, but it's extremely lucation dependent. If
Speaker 1: you were growing all of your bioplastics feedstocks in a
Speaker 1: greenhouse on the middle of a rock face in Newfoundland,
Speaker 1: then that's not interfering with your food supply um or
Speaker 1: if you're using the waste stuff like the second and
Speaker 1: third generation feedstocks, then that's a positive as well. It's
Speaker 1: better than burning it. I've put about people locating these
Speaker 1: like in Wyoming near or excuse me, Idaho, where all
Speaker 1: the potatoes are or in Maine or something like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it makes sense, there's that to consider. We still see
Speaker 1: most bioplastics being below the line, so better than the
Speaker 1: petro chemical alternatives. But then it really depends on what
Speaker 1: happens to it at the end of its life. Now,
Speaker 1: quick moment for definitions. You said cradle to gate. I
Speaker 1: read it a couple of times in the note and thought,
Speaker 1: surely this is a type of she means cradle to
Speaker 1: grave because I've heard that time before. But what gate
Speaker 1: are you going? I am wrong, You're going up to
Speaker 1: the factory gate. Okay, so they see there, I suppose
Speaker 1: from the supplier's point of view, that's when their responsibility ends.
Speaker 1: They have made this thing in the most responsible way possible.
Speaker 1: They've used a biofeed stock, They've powered their plant using
Speaker 1: wind and solar. That's like all they can do. They
Speaker 1: hand it over to the supply, delivered the little plastic pellets.
Speaker 1: Deliver the pellets, and then it's like your move, guys, um,
Speaker 1: and then it's up to the brand owner of the
Speaker 1: person making the packaging to a make it so that
Speaker 1: it's easy to recycle or to compost. So make it thin,
Speaker 1: make it out of one material and then be get
Speaker 1: the consumers to treat it properly at the end. So
Speaker 1: what do you think it's going to take to give
Speaker 1: this industry a real inject the injection that it needs
Speaker 1: to be more than one person in. What's going to
Speaker 1: get it to five of total materials? And where does
Speaker 1: that opportunity kind of come from? Yeah, it comes from
Speaker 1: a big international champion saying you just need several Cokes,
Speaker 1: like you need an Amazon, Yeah, and you need one
Speaker 1: person per bioplastic almost, so you need someone who's going
Speaker 1: to say I'm all biope, I'm all bio p a um.
Speaker 1: Because Coke can run its segment of the biopet market
Speaker 1: right now. But the only thing that's going to get
Speaker 1: it beyond there is all of these big international companies
Speaker 1: saying oil is not interesting to us anymore. You're starting
Speaker 1: to see those kinds of moves with Apple around aluminum,
Speaker 1: so that's they're big things. They want to make the
Speaker 1: Iphonet of aluminum. So they want recycled or green aluminium. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they don't use very many plastics, but they've committed to
Speaker 1: everything being recyclable or renewable. So once they get through
Speaker 1: their aluminium supply chain companies like that are going to
Speaker 1: start looking at plastics and they're going to say, okay,
Speaker 1: do I go recycled or do I go bioplastics, And
Speaker 1: those two aren't mutually exclusive. I mean a lot of
Speaker 1: people would say the gold standard is to have a
Speaker 1: bio based renewable feedstock biope say that you then recycle
Speaker 1: at the end of its life. So then so long
Speaker 1: as your power in your manufacturing with clean energy, no
Speaker 1: patrick chemicals involved, and low energy because recycling is typically
Speaker 1: less energy intensive. So Part one was on the market
Speaker 1: opportunity of the market overview, and there's a part two
Speaker 1: coming on that, right, Yes, there is a part two.
Speaker 1: Part two looks into each of the different plastics in detail,
Speaker 1: so it talks about who are the major producers, what
Speaker 1: are the technical challenges, how are they made, how are
Speaker 1: their costs going to change, which is pretty important in
Speaker 1: something that we actually haven't talked about today. And then
Speaker 1: there's also going to be a couple of case studies. Julia,
Speaker 1: thanks for joining. Thanks so much, guys, this is fun.
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