1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,800
Speaker 1: A classic episode for this evening. On January second, nineteen

2
00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:07,200
Speaker 1: thirty five, a man checks into the Hotel President in

3
00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,880
Speaker 1: Kansas City. He gives his name as Ronald t Owen,

4
00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:12,640
Speaker 1: and later he dies.

5
00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:18,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, but not just dies, He's found like destroyed, brutally attacked,

6
00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:19,520
Speaker 2: beaten to death.

7
00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:24,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, signs of torture. Somebody took their time with him.

8
00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:26,000
Speaker 3: Is the creepy thing.

9
00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,280
Speaker 1: And this is always a tragedy whenever these things occur.

10
00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:35,880
Speaker 1: But as we learned in twenty nineteen, in this classic episode,

11
00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,600
Speaker 1: the guy's name Matt is not Roland t Owen.

12
00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:44,520
Speaker 2: No, it's Artemis Ogletree and he's from Birmingham, Alabama.

13
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:45,960
Speaker 3: What happened?

14
00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:47,040
Speaker 2: It's really weird.

15
00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:53,640
Speaker 3: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is

16
00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:58,040
Speaker 3: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

17
00:00:58,120 --> 00:00:59,840
Speaker 3: learn the stuff they don't want you to.

18
00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:15,160
Speaker 2: Uh, Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.

19
00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,400
Speaker 3: Myne name is Nolan. They call me Ben.

20
00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,640
Speaker 1: We are joined with our super producer Paul Mission Control Deck.

21
00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,759
Speaker 1: At most importantly, you are you. You are here, and

22
00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,920
Speaker 1: that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.

23
00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,800
Speaker 1: It's quite possible that some of us listening to the

24
00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:34,280
Speaker 1: show today or tonight, are listening in a hotel or

25
00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:36,039
Speaker 1: a motel or an airbnb.

26
00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,640
Speaker 2: A holiday and perhaps sure, perhaps or an express holiday

27
00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:40,479
Speaker 2: and the.

28
00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,720
Speaker 1: Best Western or go classy, maybe a Western ooh, nights

29
00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:45,400
Speaker 1: nights in nights.

30
00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,000
Speaker 3: In something ritzy like the Ritz.

31
00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,880
Speaker 2: Or a Hilton. Yeah, the hotel we're gonna be speaking

32
00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,160
Speaker 2: about today is currently a Hilton property.

33
00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,480
Speaker 3: Yes, perhaps nights in white satin. It's true.

34
00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:58,720
Speaker 4: Yes, you know that sounds actually not about knights at all.

35
00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,600
Speaker 4: It's about like knights as in the evening nights bathed

36
00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,200
Speaker 4: and dressed in white satin. Just realized that pretty recently. Unrelated,

37
00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,720
Speaker 4: But it's true. There are all sorts of strange things.

38
00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:15,880
Speaker 1: That happen in hotels. Similar to spending time in an airport.

39
00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,480
Speaker 1: Spending time in a hotel is occupying a limbo, a

40
00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,440
Speaker 1: liminal space. It looks like a home. You do things

41
00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:24,960
Speaker 1: that you would do in a home, but it's not

42
00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,720
Speaker 1: really a home. There's something uncanny valley about it. And

43
00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:33,720
Speaker 1: today's story is about a very strange, extraordinary thing that

44
00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,960
Speaker 1: occurred in a hotel. And we don't mean extraordinary in

45
00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,399
Speaker 1: the way it's often misused today. Usually extraordinary is meant

46
00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:46,280
Speaker 1: as a compliment, but actually extraordinary just means something out

47
00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:47,799
Speaker 1: of the ordinary.

48
00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,440
Speaker 2: And that is the way we are using it today.

49
00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:55,040
Speaker 1: So let's set the scene on January the second, nineteen

50
00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,680
Speaker 1: thirty five, a well dressed young man calling himself Roland

51
00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:03,399
Speaker 1: t Owen while into the Hotel President in Kansas City, Missouri.

52
00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:08,080
Speaker 1: The man is not carrying luggage. He's heavy set. He

53
00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,320
Speaker 1: appears to be a fighter of some sort, or at

54
00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,160
Speaker 1: least someone who's had experience fighting, because he has a

55
00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:18,399
Speaker 1: visible cauliflower ear and a horizontal scar on the left

56
00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:19,560
Speaker 1: side of his face.

57
00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,280
Speaker 2: Quick cauliflower ear thing. You'll see this if you google

58
00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,080
Speaker 2: images of a lot of MMA fighters. You can see

59
00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:27,080
Speaker 2: what that looks like.

60
00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:33,560
Speaker 1: And it's a very easy thing to spot. Right, This

61
00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,560
Speaker 1: man calling himself Roland t Owen requests a single room

62
00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,760
Speaker 1: with no windows facing the street. He pays cash, which

63
00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,160
Speaker 1: you could do at that time, right, which was the

64
00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,200
Speaker 1: normal way to pay for things in nineteen in nineteen

65
00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:51,120
Speaker 1: thirty five, and he checks into room ten forty six.

66
00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,800
Speaker 1: When the cleaning staff goes by his room, you know,

67
00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,920
Speaker 1: to change the sheets and change out the towels and stuff,

68
00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:02,080
Speaker 1: they find the man calling himself rolling t and sitting

69
00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:06,440
Speaker 1: in a dark room exhibiting signs of profound fright. He

70
00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:10,080
Speaker 1: tells the staff that he's expecting someone to drop by.

71
00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:16,040
Speaker 2: So, okay, so far, what we know scared guy sitting

72
00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,200
Speaker 2: you know, alone in a room that he wanted to

73
00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,680
Speaker 2: stay away, he wanted to be a little more anonymous

74
00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,040
Speaker 2: than usual, hiding out in a hotel. But it's you know,

75
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,360
Speaker 2: it's it's mysterious, but it's not all that insane, right, Yeah,

76
00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:29,680
Speaker 2: it's a little.

77
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:31,440
Speaker 4: Blair witchy though it reminds me of like the dude

78
00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,360
Speaker 4: standing facing the corner in the Blair.

79
00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:33,480
Speaker 2: With you know.

80
00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,280
Speaker 3: Okay, and on its surface, it's not.

81
00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,560
Speaker 4: That weird, but when you know a little more about

82
00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,120
Speaker 4: the backstory, it becomes even weirder.

83
00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're absolutely right. And to explore this story, we're

84
00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:52,279
Speaker 1: going to shift through various different perspectives, primarily people who

85
00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,920
Speaker 1: work at the hotel. So first, what do you say,

86
00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,560
Speaker 1: let's start with the Maid's Tale. If we want to

87
00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,200
Speaker 1: make this Canterbury.

88
00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,960
Speaker 2: Tale as or a Hulu original, maybe oh.

89
00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,000
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, the non Handmaid's Tail.

90
00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,920
Speaker 2: That's right. So at ten thirty in the morning on

91
00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:14,679
Speaker 2: January third, the day after our our protagonist, I guess

92
00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,040
Speaker 2: Roland t Owen checks into the President.

93
00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,240
Speaker 3: Hotel, a man calling himself rolling to that's right.

94
00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,640
Speaker 2: A member of the cleaning staff goes up to room

95
00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,320
Speaker 2: ten forty six where he is. She notices that the

96
00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:29,000
Speaker 2: door is locked, and she you know, it's kind of

97
00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,640
Speaker 2: a normal thing. Doors are locked. When the cleaning staff

98
00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,520
Speaker 2: comes by, they knock generally and say housekeeping. She opens

99
00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,960
Speaker 2: the door, and because she assumes that Owen is out,

100
00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,200
Speaker 2: maybe at breakfast or having a meeting or something, so

101
00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,120
Speaker 2: she notices the lights are off too, exactly, lights are off,

102
00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,000
Speaker 2: door is locked. I'm going to clean this room well instead.

103
00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,479
Speaker 2: As she opens the door, as we said earlier, she

104
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:55,000
Speaker 2: sees him sitting alone in the dark. Yes, you heard

105
00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,880
Speaker 2: that correctly, just sitting there in the dark. Now, before

106
00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,359
Speaker 2: you say all that is so insane, I just have

107
00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,400
Speaker 2: to bring up a fact that I enjoy doing this

108
00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:03,200
Speaker 2: a lot.

109
00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,599
Speaker 3: Actually, is it usual to do that?

110
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:08,680
Speaker 2: I don't think it's that On you.

111
00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,840
Speaker 1: Tub, I'm right there with you. I spend hours each

112
00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:16,440
Speaker 1: week actually locked in a bathroom in the dark with

113
00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,440
Speaker 1: a shower on, just sort of thinking nice.

114
00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:21,760
Speaker 2: I definitely take showers in the dark when I can.

115
00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,480
Speaker 3: Am I the outlier here? I think I'm the outlier here?

116
00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:26,839
Speaker 3: Oh yeah? Am I the only one that finds this strange?

117
00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,120
Speaker 2: I don't know. I got into it when I was

118
00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,760
Speaker 2: a kid. We had a drum kit in this room

119
00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,320
Speaker 2: that had no windows in it in my parents' basement,

120
00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,760
Speaker 2: and I would go in there, shut the door and like,

121
00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:38,520
Speaker 2: use a flashlight or something. You turn the light on,

122
00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,120
Speaker 2: go sit down at my throne, and then turn off

123
00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,520
Speaker 2: all the lights and just practice playing drums in the

124
00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,920
Speaker 2: pitch black. And I found it to be riveting. So

125
00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:48,400
Speaker 2: now I just like to do things like that.

126
00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,680
Speaker 1: Didn't you have a similar setup with your drum kit

127
00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:53,080
Speaker 1: and your last house too?

128
00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,920
Speaker 2: I did, but it was in a basement with one window.

129
00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:58,840
Speaker 1: I don't know, man that basement. When I went down there,

130
00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,279
Speaker 1: it felt like a kill room. Yeah, And I have

131
00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,640
Speaker 1: a very high tolerance for strangeness.

132
00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,360
Speaker 2: I think that was just the factor of the basement itself.

133
00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,920
Speaker 2: Having the drum kit was just a nice little accoutrement.

134
00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:13,840
Speaker 3: Where the walls covered in plastic.

135
00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:19,320
Speaker 2: Sometimes Yeah, okay, when you know when season was right,

136
00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,160
Speaker 2: you are not digging yourself out of this.

137
00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,200
Speaker 3: The whole of weirdness very well.

138
00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:24,040
Speaker 2: I don't know what you're talking about.

139
00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,760
Speaker 1: Okay, So you so it sounds like two thirds of

140
00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:34,000
Speaker 1: us are on board with this. He might have also

141
00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:38,040
Speaker 1: been dozing off or sleeping. That's that's quite possible, right.

142
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:44,240
Speaker 1: But the maid is standing there, you know, she notices

143
00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,800
Speaker 1: her senses somehow this person sitting in this room, and

144
00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,280
Speaker 1: she realizes the room is in fact occupied.

145
00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:51,280
Speaker 3: And then.

146
00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,200
Speaker 1: Roland pretty much tells her not to touch the lights,

147
00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,840
Speaker 1: and he asked the maid to leave the door unlocked

148
00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,920
Speaker 1: as she exits, because you see, he says he is

149
00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:09,040
Speaker 1: again expecting someone. So this is the second time he

150
00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:09,560
Speaker 1: said this.

151
00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,280
Speaker 2: And then, according to a Mental Floss article that's written

152
00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,840
Speaker 2: on this very subject, it says that the maid ended

153
00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,120
Speaker 2: up returning to that room to deliver fresh towels, and

154
00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,400
Speaker 2: this time when she went in, she found Owen lying

155
00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,000
Speaker 2: on his bed. Now he's fully dressed, but there's a

156
00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,480
Speaker 2: note on the desk that read down, I will be

157
00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:33,199
Speaker 2: back in fifteen minutes. Wait, and that's down spelled Don.

158
00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,040
Speaker 1: Yes, So who's now We've got Don and we've got

159
00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:37,400
Speaker 1: another person in the mix.

160
00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:39,760
Speaker 2: Is that like Donald or the Dawn?

161
00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:42,839
Speaker 4: Oh my god, man, I never thought about it. Well,

162
00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:44,560
Speaker 4: this is this is gonna come back around.

163
00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, this does come back around. And that's a good question.

164
00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,760
Speaker 1: Is is it kind of the theme? Is it kind

165
00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:51,640
Speaker 1: of like saying sir, you know what I mean?

166
00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:53,199
Speaker 3: Or duke?

167
00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:59,439
Speaker 1: Now we shift to the story of the motorist later

168
00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:04,200
Speaker 1: on this night, January third, there's a guy named Robert Lane.

169
00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,520
Speaker 1: That is his real name. He's not a guy who

170
00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,320
Speaker 1: calls himself that. And he is driving he picks up

171
00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,480
Speaker 1: a stranger a few blocks away from the hotel President.

172
00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,439
Speaker 4: So the man was dressed only in pants and like

173
00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:22,640
Speaker 4: an undershirt, and he had a scar on his left arm,

174
00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,439
Speaker 4: not an open wound, but like a big, very obvious

175
00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,080
Speaker 4: kind of gash of a scar. And I was on

176
00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,199
Speaker 4: his left arm. And then when Lane told his passenger

177
00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,400
Speaker 4: that he looked as if he was having a rough night,

178
00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:41,640
Speaker 4: the man replied, I will kill that beep tomorrow.

179
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:43,640
Speaker 3: And this beap comes.

180
00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,520
Speaker 4: We come honestly by this beat because the reports about

181
00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:49,760
Speaker 4: this in the newspaper of the time in the area,

182
00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,880
Speaker 4: they removed this word and it's not clear what it

183
00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:53,480
Speaker 4: actually was.

184
00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,800
Speaker 2: Well, in this guy, Robert Lane that we're talking about,

185
00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:00,440
Speaker 2: he worked for the water department in Kansas City. So

186
00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,360
Speaker 2: It's not like he was just some random guy out there.

187
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:04,480
Speaker 2: He was doing his job.

188
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:09,439
Speaker 1: When he interacted, right, And I have a proposition for

189
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,800
Speaker 1: the table for the show. I have a proposition. We

190
00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:17,480
Speaker 1: do not know what expletive he used, and we don't

191
00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,040
Speaker 1: know exactly what the newspapers decided to censor.

192
00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:21,960
Speaker 3: We may not ever know it.

193
00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:27,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I stumbled across this great anachronistic and I

194
00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,640
Speaker 1: think I said this to you know, this great anachronistic insult.

195
00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,439
Speaker 3: Better. So what if instead of saying, you.

196
00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:39,400
Speaker 1: Know, and whatever gutter tramp, I don't know, whatever weird

197
00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:41,400
Speaker 1: thing you want to put in there, what if he said,

198
00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:47,120
Speaker 1: I'll kill that sockdologizing old man trap.

199
00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,560
Speaker 2: Tomorrow, socktologizing old man trap, the.

200
00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,960
Speaker 3: Old man trap, you old man trap. I don't know

201
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,240
Speaker 3: why that tickles me, but you're right. You're right.

202
00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:01,439
Speaker 1: He did work for the water department. And then later

203
00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,760
Speaker 1: when he's given the opportunity to identify this hitchhiker, who,

204
00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,439
Speaker 1: as you said, was only in pants and an undershirt,

205
00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:12,959
Speaker 1: looking like he had been roaded hard and put away wet,

206
00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,560
Speaker 1: he said, yeah, that's the guy I picked up. And

207
00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,720
Speaker 1: they said that guy is roland T Owen, or at

208
00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:21,480
Speaker 1: least that's what he calls himself now.

209
00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,360
Speaker 2: On this same night, January third, just a quick mention,

210
00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,959
Speaker 2: he was allegedly seen around the town at several bars,

211
00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,800
Speaker 2: hanging out with at least two women like that night,

212
00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,839
Speaker 2: seen hanging around doing stuff with them. The timelines are

213
00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,240
Speaker 2: a little bit weird, just just a little bit, but

214
00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,679
Speaker 2: they say he was on twelfth Street, which you know,

215
00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,200
Speaker 2: isn't isn't that far because we're we're our last person,

216
00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:57,120
Speaker 2: our Robert Lane. He actually interacted with rolling to Owen

217
00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,160
Speaker 2: along thirteenth Street, which is about a mile and a

218
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:05,000
Speaker 2: half from the hotel. So you know, twelfth Street distance

219
00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:06,880
Speaker 2: is not that far from there, right.

220
00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:10,400
Speaker 1: All right, So it's completely plausible that he could be

221
00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,520
Speaker 1: in that area, that there could be some sand to

222
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:18,319
Speaker 1: those those reports which did not have they didn't get

223
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:22,800
Speaker 1: widely publicized, if I'm correct, They were sort of hearsayers.

224
00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:23,240
Speaker 3: Some rumors.

225
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:23,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

226
00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:29,080
Speaker 1: And we should also mention that the cleaning staff, the

227
00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,480
Speaker 1: member of the cleaning staff, her name was Mary Stoptik. Yes,

228
00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:38,280
Speaker 1: so speaking of staff, and we are building a case here,

229
00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,199
Speaker 1: we are going somewhere with this, folks. I know we're

230
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,320
Speaker 1: taking a circuitous route But speaking of staff, let's go

231
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,840
Speaker 1: to the first bell boy, whose name we don't have.

232
00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so bell Boy one interacts around seven am with

233
00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:59,280
Speaker 2: our protagonist. It's January fourth, the phone operator at Hotel President.

234
00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,319
Speaker 2: Because you know, this an entire system of phone lines

235
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,400
Speaker 2: going to all the different rooms, there's actually a human

236
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,280
Speaker 2: being in nineteen thirty five that is operating these phones.

237
00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,480
Speaker 2: This operator notices that the receiver of the telephone in

238
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,559
Speaker 2: ten forty six, where Roland is staying, is off the hook.

239
00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,000
Speaker 2: And so this bell boy goes up to check on

240
00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,960
Speaker 2: Owen and or at least to check up on the

241
00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,320
Speaker 2: phone itself. And when he gets there, he finds that

242
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,560
Speaker 2: the door's locked and there's a do not disturb sign

243
00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,959
Speaker 2: hanging from the knob. It probably says something like nary

244
00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:35,160
Speaker 2: a disturbance something like that. He knocks and he hears

245
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,880
Speaker 2: somebody from the other side of the room say come in,

246
00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:43,400
Speaker 2: and again he's like, the door's locked. Hello, door's locked.

247
00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,440
Speaker 2: Man inside the room just kind of ignores that he's

248
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,040
Speaker 2: letting him know that the door is locked. But then

249
00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:51,640
Speaker 2: the guy.

250
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,320
Speaker 3: Says, turn on the lights.

251
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:56,760
Speaker 2: Kind Of hard to do that when you can't get

252
00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,560
Speaker 2: into the room. Bell boy just keeps on knocking, but

253
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,959
Speaker 2: he ends up just leaving. But right before he leaves,

254
00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,199
Speaker 2: he shouts through the door, he said.

255
00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:05,280
Speaker 4: The way he wants him to put his phone on

256
00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:09,080
Speaker 4: the hook, Right, it's what did the voice.

257
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:10,959
Speaker 3: Put damn pout on the hook?

258
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:11,800
Speaker 4: Son?

259
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:17,080
Speaker 2: Because that's because it's Hank Hill, that's the Yeah, it's

260
00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,280
Speaker 2: an approximation of what occurred. But yes, he just like

261
00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:21,880
Speaker 2: yells at him to put the phone back on the hook,

262
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,440
Speaker 2: and the bellboy just doesn't have his past key on

263
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,360
Speaker 2: him at that moment, so he can't go in and

264
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,120
Speaker 2: do it, so he just kind of gives up and

265
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,000
Speaker 2: goes downstairs.

266
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,400
Speaker 1: An hour's pass. Let's go to the second bell boy.

267
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,880
Speaker 1: A different member of the hotel staff goes up later

268
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,480
Speaker 1: that afternoon. So at seven am January fourth, when he

269
00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:43,480
Speaker 1: has the first guy has that weird interaction. In the afternoon,

270
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:47,680
Speaker 1: this different guy goes up and he does have his

271
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,160
Speaker 1: key on him, so he lets himself into the room

272
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,560
Speaker 1: and he finds the man calling himself rolling t Owen,

273
00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,560
Speaker 1: lying on the bed in the dark, and from what

274
00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,720
Speaker 1: he could tell, this man was very much naked and

275
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:05,080
Speaker 1: very much drunk. He also sees that the phone stand

276
00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,920
Speaker 1: has been knocked over, so he doesn't turn on the lights.

277
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,320
Speaker 1: He doesn't say anything to this naked man reeking a booze.

278
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,000
Speaker 1: He just hangs up the phone, cuts his losses leaves

279
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:17,360
Speaker 1: the room.

280
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,160
Speaker 2: Because at this point it's you know, it's been hours

281
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,120
Speaker 2: and hours. The operator is like, somebody, hang up that phone.

282
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,560
Speaker 2: I need order. I'm the operator here, hang up that phone.

283
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:29,840
Speaker 2: So that bell boy just did it and got out.

284
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,680
Speaker 1: And we have two more perspectives that are crucial to

285
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,080
Speaker 1: understanding this mystery. We'll get back to those after a

286
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:46,560
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor. So we have our first returning

287
00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,520
Speaker 1: a recurring guest star here in this strange tale.

288
00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:52,680
Speaker 3: The first bell boy comes back.

289
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:54,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, as well as the phone operator.

290
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,120
Speaker 3: Oh that's right, Yeah, I should give her more credit.

291
00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,280
Speaker 3: Do you think she was a smooth operator?

292
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,760
Speaker 4: One would hope guaranteed, because she she runs a tight ship.

293
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:05,920
Speaker 4: She doesn't like phones being off the hook.

294
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:06,840
Speaker 3: At our hotel.

295
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,280
Speaker 4: That's right, Because when we were talking about this, Matt,

296
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,000
Speaker 4: I was sort of like man very particular, because I mean,

297
00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,320
Speaker 4: some people might take the phone off the hook so

298
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,400
Speaker 4: they won't be disturbed. So wouldn't it be kind of

299
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:18,960
Speaker 4: an affront to be disturbed?

300
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,320
Speaker 3: For trying to not be disturbed. That's a good question, agreed.

301
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,280
Speaker 1: It also it also may be a situation where, given

302
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,080
Speaker 1: phone technology at the time, having one thing off the

303
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,800
Speaker 1: hook could mess up the line for other other patrons.

304
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:33,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you got to wonder too, was it like

305
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,480
Speaker 4: a safety concern, you know what I mean, where like

306
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:37,000
Speaker 4: they would want to be able to reach you or

307
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:38,480
Speaker 4: let you know if there was a problem or I

308
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:40,920
Speaker 4: don't know. Yeah, I'm just wondering what was the urgency

309
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,680
Speaker 4: with sending a physical human to knock on the door

310
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:45,320
Speaker 4: pretty aggressively if you ask me.

311
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,720
Speaker 1: Maybe she yeah, heard this crazy noise on the on

312
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,320
Speaker 1: this all the old switchboard, and she was like, get

313
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:52,600
Speaker 1: this guy out of my ear holes.

314
00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,200
Speaker 2: But she didn't want to say what yours hearing.

315
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,760
Speaker 3: She didn't want to say what she heard. Ye, she is.

316
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:00,840
Speaker 2: She is the best witness that we have yet to

317
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,760
Speaker 2: I like really even discussed that we don't have information

318
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:05,960
Speaker 2: about We need someone to go back to nineteen thirty

319
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,520
Speaker 2: five and interview the phone operator. Yes, yes, if you

320
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:14,240
Speaker 2: have your time machine, John Teetoor, Yeah right, help.

321
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:19,800
Speaker 1: So so, like, like you said, she's pretty ardent about this.

322
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,280
Speaker 1: All phones shall be either in use or they darn

323
00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,960
Speaker 1: well better be hooked and on their proper stand So

324
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,040
Speaker 1: she's a bit of a stickler. Perhaps she sends one

325
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,119
Speaker 1: of the staff members up to check this out.

326
00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:34,960
Speaker 3: He opens the door.

327
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:39,360
Speaker 1: He's got his key on him, and then he finds

328
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:44,800
Speaker 1: the man calling himself rolling to and still naked, still nude,

329
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,679
Speaker 1: but viciously brutalized. Someone has beaten the tar out of

330
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,679
Speaker 1: him and he is on the edge of death. Of course,

331
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,719
Speaker 1: the hotel calls the cops. The cops find blood spatters

332
00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:01,960
Speaker 1: festooning the walls, the bed, the bathroom, owen the guy

333
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,720
Speaker 1: who calls himself that it appears to have been tortured,

334
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:13,119
Speaker 1: so not just roughed up, but maliciously, purposely victimized, with

335
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:17,600
Speaker 1: an emphasis more on making things painful rather than just

336
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 1: immediately killing the guy.

337
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:23,600
Speaker 4: Because he was stabbed, I believe dozens of times, very shallowly,

338
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:25,959
Speaker 4: which you know, would show you that it was something

339
00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,320
Speaker 4: to keep him alive in order to maybe make him

340
00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,760
Speaker 4: talk or just extend that pain as much as possible.

341
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, good observation, right, because it's very messy to kill

342
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:40,160
Speaker 1: someone with a knife, but it's very easy. So whomever

343
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,879
Speaker 1: it was, they knew what they were doing, and they

344
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:44,960
Speaker 1: did not want to immediately kill him. His skull was

345
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,479
Speaker 1: also fractured from what appeared to be a series of

346
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:53,239
Speaker 1: intense impacts from a blunt object. Somehow, old boy is

347
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,160
Speaker 1: still alive, at least for a second.

348
00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,400
Speaker 4: And goodness gracious, did he have a strong desire cover

349
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,120
Speaker 4: up who had done this to him. He literally said

350
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:08,119
Speaker 4: something along the lines of I tripped and fell, you know,

351
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:13,080
Speaker 4: onto a knife repeatedly. Yeah, very strange thing to say.

352
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,280
Speaker 2: He was trying to protect something or from body else,

353
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,960
Speaker 2: or you know what he had done, Like if may

354
00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,240
Speaker 2: perhaps if the police knew who did this to him,

355
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:24,600
Speaker 2: they might know something that he had done. So maybe

356
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,639
Speaker 2: he was self preservation, or maybe he's protecting a third party,

357
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:29,400
Speaker 2: or maybe he.

358
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,600
Speaker 1: Was involved in criminal activity. I mean, that's what you

359
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,000
Speaker 1: would think if your law enforcements once said I slipped

360
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,119
Speaker 1: and fell, and maybe he was just like, I'm not

361
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:37,520
Speaker 1: a rat, you know.

362
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:38,159
Speaker 2: That could be it.

363
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,520
Speaker 4: He also could have been completely insane from the pain

364
00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,240
Speaker 4: and torture and just you know, and it probably had

365
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:49,280
Speaker 4: undergone some brain damage from being whatever kicked in the head.

366
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,360
Speaker 4: I mean, if he had a serious fracture there.

367
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,800
Speaker 2: Well that's almost certain because the next thing that happens

368
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,120
Speaker 2: to Roland is he slips into a coma.

369
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,200
Speaker 3: And he doesn't make it through the night. Yeah, he's

370
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,359
Speaker 3: not in the coma for long. He dies that evening.

371
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:07,560
Speaker 1: So this brings us to today's question, what happened to

372
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:12,119
Speaker 1: the man calling himself Roland t Owen. Here's where it

373
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:16,040
Speaker 1: gets crazy. It turns out there is no Roland t

374
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:21,160
Speaker 1: Owen matching the description of this corpse. There are several

375
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,200
Speaker 1: people with the name Roland Owen in the world at

376
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 1: this time and in the United States, and there are

377
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,640
Speaker 1: plenty of dead people who have that name, but none

378
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:36,480
Speaker 1: of them are this person. Roland t Owen cannot be identified,

379
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,320
Speaker 1: and so law enforcement takes a tact that may be

380
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,200
Speaker 1: surprising to some of us here in twenty nineteen. I've

381
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,920
Speaker 1: never heard of this happening in the modern day.

382
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,280
Speaker 3: What do they do? Okay?

383
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,840
Speaker 4: So, yes, this is it's very strange, and we've talked

384
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,040
Speaker 4: we've all talked about this off bike. How I don't

385
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 4: think any of us have ever heard of this exact

386
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,000
Speaker 4: technique for identifying somebody.

387
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,879
Speaker 2: For other John Doe's, I've never heard of this.

388
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, they literally propped him up in a funeral home

389
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 4: like window, which is one of the most macabre things

390
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 4: I've ever seen. First of all, if I was walking

391
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 4: down the street and saw that with my kids or

392
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,040
Speaker 4: something like that, I would consider that a personal affront.

393
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:17,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

394
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 4: I certainly wouldn't be like, oh, look, it's Steve. I'd

395
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,639
Speaker 4: be like, Jesus, what is that? Get me out of here, mom. No,

396
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 4: it is not a good thing, not a good look.

397
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 4: But yeah, they do this and it actually yields some hits.

398
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 3: Right.

399
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, several people around the area do recognize Roland to

400
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,200
Speaker 1: and from various encounters with him while he was on

401
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,679
Speaker 1: this side of the veil, but none of them know

402
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 1: him as anything other than Roland, and the police are

403
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 1: at this point, we should add, the police are befuddled

404
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:54,919
Speaker 1: and they think that there's something something else at place,

405
00:21:55,040 --> 00:22:02,360
Speaker 1: something beyond the mundane although horrific tragedy of homicide, because

406
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 1: we didn't mention this when they found Owen right and

407
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,919
Speaker 1: we said he was naked, but his hotel room had

408
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 1: also been ransacked. There were no towels, no shampoo, he

409
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,679
Speaker 1: didn't have any clothes in the room. He had a

410
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 1: label for a necktie, a hairpin, a cigarette, a safety pin,

411
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,880
Speaker 1: and a small sealed bottle of sulfuric acid.

412
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 2: What right, what are you doing with that acid? Man?

413
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:30,920
Speaker 3: Well?

414
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,680
Speaker 2: Then, also, don't they find a broken glass of some

415
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:34,479
Speaker 2: sort somewhere?

416
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, in the sink with the jagged edge. And

417
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 1: the only prints they've found, because they didn't have fingerprint

418
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 1: technology in the nineteen thirties, came from the telephone stand

419
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,120
Speaker 1: and the police for some reason, correct us if you're

420
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 1: a forensic expert, but the police, for some reason say, well,

421
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 1: these the fingerprints of a woman.

422
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 2: Is that profiling? But I guess it would be if

423
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,160
Speaker 2: it's police officers trying to I don't.

424
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 3: Maybe the person just had dainty hands.

425
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 2: Who knows. Okay, so.

426
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 1: People could identify his body. Some knew him as Roland,

427
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 1: but other people knew him by different names. You know,

428
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,879
Speaker 1: we don't have those names today, but like, oh, that's

429
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 1: Alvin or Alfonso or Beauregard.

430
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:20,159
Speaker 3: I don't know.

431
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 1: And it turned out he stayed in more than one hotel.

432
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 1: Before he stayed at the Hotel President, there was another

433
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 1: hotel called the mule Bach Hotel.

434
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 3: And they knew him as Eugene K. Scott.

435
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they said he like stayed there for one

436
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 2: night and that was.

437
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 3: It and didn't want windows facing the street.

438
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 2: Yeah hmm, what is he up to? Oh? He also

439
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 2: stayed the same regis that's another nice hotel in the area.

440
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 2: Oh in this time his name, now this is gonna

441
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 2: be we don't want to spoil too much, but his

442
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 2: name here. He called himself Duncan Ogle Tree at that hotel,

443
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 2: and he shared a room with another man who was

444
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 2: known as Donald Kelso. There's our Don Don?

445
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 3: Is that our don Don? Donald Kelso?

446
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 1: Then there was a wrestling promoter who said that Owen,

447
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: remember looked like a fighter, had approached him a few

448
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: weeks ago or a few weeks earlier and said, I'd

449
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: like to sign up for some wrestling matches, but don't

450
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,439
Speaker 1: call me Roland t Owen.

451
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 3: My name is Cecil Warner.

452
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 2: Cecil Werner. Interesting. So all right, now I'm getting a

453
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 2: little more of a picture. I'm assuming everyone listening, all

454
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 2: of us have heard of these, I guess smaller wrestling

455
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 2: matches or more localized wrestling matches. They can range from

456
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 2: like family friendly to the macabre. Essentially, now I'm imagining

457
00:24:55,440 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 2: all these shallow cuts on him and injuries to head.

458
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 2: He's a local wrestler that maybe takes things too far,

459
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 2: but we'll get into that later.

460
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, this not entirely related or tangentially related at best,

461
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 1: But have you guys ever seen those kind of local

462
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: wrestling matches? Yea, I saw it when I saw one

463
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,880
Speaker 1: where the blood was definitely real and these guys were

464
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,719
Speaker 1: not we're not faking it all due respect to the

465
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 1: k fabe or whatever they call it in w w E,

466
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: but these guys were actually beating the snot out of

467
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: each other.

468
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 4: The one that I went to was super theatrical in

469
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 4: the sense that, like, the bad guy was often some

470
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 4: sort of foreigner I'm doing fingers, yeah and uh, and

471
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 4: the good guy was like swathed in like an American

472
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 4: flag or something like that, and there was some real

473
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 4: hooting and hollering from the stands. I was out and

474
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 4: down the country, down in rural Georgia. It was what

475
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 4: it was a real experience.

476
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 3: Were we were we friends, we met when you went it.

477
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: Was pretty recently, Okay, Yeah, because I feel like I

478
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 1: remember that story, I would still I would still go

479
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: check out one of those matches. But yeah, maybe maybe

480
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 1: he was involved in something related to wrestling, to fixing

481
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: a match, right, or something with the organized crime, but.

482
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 2: Or participating in a match.

483
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. But that's that's the thing.

484
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 1: The police or at their wits end due to the

485
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 1: circumstances of the discovery and the circumstances of this man's death,

486
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: they say they need to identify him because they have

487
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: the feeling that this may be a bread crumb leading

488
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 1: to something much, much, much more sinister. And they put

489
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: his body on display, and they put take out an

490
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: ad to got ads telling people to help and to

491
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 1: show up at this funeral.

492
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 3: Home for the viewing.

493
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: Hundreds of people go, and as we said, a lot

494
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 1: of them know this guy under various different names, and

495
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: far be it from me to criticize and for traveling

496
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: under different names.

497
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 2: What a lot of it goes back to that scar

498
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: that he had on the left side of his face,

499
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 2: right and the ear in the ear, because it's just something,

500
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 2: like you said earlier, Ben, you just would recognize that.

501
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: So people are following this story in the local papers

502
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: of the time, and the million dollar question is who

503
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: the hell is this. Eventually people just throw out their

504
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 1: hands and say, you know, we tried our best. You

505
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: can't win them all. They make plans to bury, the

506
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: body of the man calling himself rolling te West and

507
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: Eugene and Cecil and so on in an unmarked grave

508
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 1: at a potter's field. And a potter's field is where

509
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 1: bodies will be inturned if they have no survivors to

510
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: take care of them, or if they have no funds

511
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: or no will, or they can't be identified.

512
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: Now, just okay, let's go back to when the news

513
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 2: article comes out where they're announcing here's this unidentified person.

514
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 2: Let us know if you've heard of this person before,

515
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 2: an anonymous person. A woman calls the local paper and

516
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 2: she says that somebody somewhere, some anonymous person is going

517
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 2: to pay for a proper funeral role for this person

518
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 2: known as Roland. And when when the local paper inquires about, well, hey,

519
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 2: do you know what happened to him or why he

520
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 2: ended up in this state, she says, quote, he got

521
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 2: into a.

522
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: Jam, got into a jam. Who is this Dennis Reynolds.

523
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: This is like a Dennis jammed up when he get

524
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: jammed up, buddy, Oh boy, But seriously, that's that's a

525
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: strange thing to say, right, And shortly afterwards, another person

526
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: calls him anonymously. This time it's a man and they

527
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: call the funeral home and he confirms that he'll be

528
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: paying for the funeral of this person, calling themselves and

529
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: t Owen, and he has some conditions along with his

530
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: payment and says, not only will I pay for the funeral,

531
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: but he is going to be there. Is my wish

532
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: they be buried in this specific cemetery, And then he.

533
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 3: Says he'll be near my sister.

534
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: The man mentioned specifically Memorial Park cemetery, and if we

535
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: were to paraphrase, he tells the He tells law enforcement

536
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: that Roland had jilted a girl that he, the unidentified caller,

537
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: had planned to marry, and that the three of them

538
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: had met up at the hotel President Ooh, and the

539
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: caller says.

540
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 4: Chaders usually get what's coming to them. I'm not sure

541
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 4: why they're all Southern, but it's just more fun than

542
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 4: I says, a fun one to do.

543
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: I think we're just feeling it, you know, feeling, and

544
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: we would we would need to put in some more

545
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: research to really give a Missouri accent.

546
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't know what that would be. Kansas City.

547
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: That's what people call you, right, they call you Kansas City.

548
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: So he hangs up, right, after he says, cheaters usually

549
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: get what's coming to them. Dial tone, noise, the whole nine.

550
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: Multiple unidentified people send flowers to the funeral. One order

551
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: for flowers five dollars worth of flowers has a car attached,

552
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: and it says love Forever Louise Louis, and then time passes.

553
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 1: It isn't until nineteen thirty six when a woman from Birmingham,

554
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: Alabama reads an account of this unsolved murder in the

555
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: magazine American Weekly, and.

556
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 3: He she thinks it's.

557
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: Fairly apparent in the article that this guy's name was

558
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: not rolling to Owen, nor was it any of the

559
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: other names he used. Most likely, so this lady says,

560
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:09,959
Speaker 1: this corpse might be the missing child of my good friend.

561
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 1: He left home in April of nineteen thirty four. But

562
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: his name isn't Roland.

563
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 2: And we'll tell you what his name is after aword

564
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 2: from our sponsor.

565
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 3: All right, ready for this Artemis Ogletree.

566
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 2: Ah, you recall Ogletree from.

567
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 3: Earlier Duncan ogle Tree.

568
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 2: Yeh, yes, okay. Interesting.

569
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: So the woman who finds this article in American Weekly,

570
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: she reaches out to Artemis's mother, Missus Ogletree, and she

571
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: goes on the mother to positively confirm the body of

572
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: Roland t Owen as that of her son, and law

573
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: enforcement says, all right, we believe you. We agree with

574
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: your claim. The timeline checks out. This is your son.

575
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: We have finally identified this victim. It is an Artemis

576
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: ogle Tree. He had left home. He had left Alabama

577
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: in April of nineteen thirty four, ostensibly to travel to California.

578
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: But it's weird because for some time the family, the

579
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: ogle Tree family, thought he was completely fine. You see,

580
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: sometime after Ogletree's physical death, the family had received two

581
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: letters from Artemis, two typewritten letters after his murder, where

582
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: he claimed everything was fine, don't worry about him.

583
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 3: Plans have changed. He's now traveling the world.

584
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

585
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 3: So they did not know he was dead, but he

586
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:55,959
Speaker 3: certainly didn't write these letters.

587
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,719
Speaker 2: That's right, because generally when the mother had received letters

588
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 2: from her son, they were all handwritten in a very

589
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 2: specific handwriting that her son uses. These typed out writer

590
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 2: letters were much more formal than what she was used

591
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 2: to receiving, which definitely made them, or at least set

592
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 2: them apart, and made her a bit suspicious about them.

593
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 2: Then before the mother actually found out that the son

594
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 2: was dead. She had received a phone call from some man,

595
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 2: some I guess anonymous person. But this person called themselves Jordan.

596
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 3: This is so weird.

597
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he claimed Jordan claimed that Artemis was now

598
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 2: living in Cairo, Egypt, had become married to some at

599
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 2: least unknown to the mother, wealthy woman, and that everything

600
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 2: was okay and he was just he was living out

601
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: his life now in Cairo.

602
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very strange.

603
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: So the authorities said, let's not push our luck. We'll

604
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: settle for identifying the body. Yeah, you know this. We

605
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: may never identify the the murderer or the murderers, but

606
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: it's amazing that we're able to bring closure to this grizzly,

607
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: grizzly story. So these letters, by the way, said various

608
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: different things. One said he was in Chicago, one said

609
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: he was sailing from New York to Europe. It appeared

610
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: as though they were real time updates. And at this point,

611
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: we can try to go a bit further than the

612
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: police went. We don't have to settle for just identifying

613
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 1: the body. You see, in the decades, almost a century

614
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: of time since the discovery of the murder and the

615
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 1: death of Artemis ocal Tree. Hundreds of thousands of people

616
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: have been working the case, attempting to figure out what

617
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: actually happened to this poor, unfortunate young man, and they've

618
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: built some pretty interesting theories here.

619
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 3: Was it a jilted lover situation? We've talked about those possibilities.

620
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 4: Did the unidentified male caller have a part in ogle

621
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 4: Tree's murder?

622
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 2: Jordan, Yeah, that's right.

623
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 4: Was one of Was he possibly one of Louise's siblings,

624
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 4: a relative.

625
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 2: Of some kind?

626
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 4: Was Memorial Park Cemetery a place where ogle Trees spurn

627
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 4: Lever could visit her grave. My question there, though, is

628
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 4: why why bury your enemy next to the person who

629
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 4: he wronged, who you did him in for.

630
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 3: It feels like a mob move.

631
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 4: It feels like a mob move or kind of a

632
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 4: twisted some sort of weird vengeance kind of thing, like

633
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 4: where it's like a power move. I don't know, it's very,

634
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 4: very weird.

635
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: It's like, Louise, my sister, I love you, but I

636
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: cannot let this disrespect go unpunished.

637
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 2: There you go. Well, let's get back into just the

638
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 2: concept of the jilted lover's theory here. So what we

639
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,359
Speaker 2: do know or at least what we have heard here

640
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 2: throughout the story is that perhaps Ogletree was in the

641
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 2: middle of some kind of love triangle and it the

642
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 2: question then is whether or not, like which side of

643
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 2: the triangle he's on. Essentially, was he betrothed to someone

644
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 2: where and he messed up, was his partner messing up

645
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 2: in some way doing something with someone else, or was

646
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 2: the other person like the husband or something to that effect. So,

647
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 2: and there's really no way for us to know for

648
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 2: sure like what that situation was, and it's difficult to

649
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 2: go down all the different paths and try to figure

650
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 2: that out. But we do know that this Dawn character

651
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: was somehow in his room involved in some way. At

652
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 2: least there would be more information there if you could

653
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 2: find it with this person and the other Louise is

654
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 2: a possibility, and then you've got the fingerprints. I would

655
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 2: say that's one of the more promising theories, one of the.

656
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 1: More promising avenues. Yeah, there's another thing that occurs in

657
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty seven. There's a guy named Joseph Ogden that's

658
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 1: the alias, never says his real name, and the police

659
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: don't believe him. He is arrested for the murder of

660
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: his roommates. Turns out Joseph Ogden is not this guy's

661
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: only AKA. He's also been known to go under the

662
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: moniker of Donald Kelso. Uh oh, and his description matches

663
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: the description of the Donald Kelso who had stayed at

664
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: the Saint Regis with Artemis when he was going by

665
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,240
Speaker 1: the name Duncan Ogle Tree dude.

666
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 2: But again, here's the deal this. I guess there wasn't

667
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 2: much else to learn here, or it was just never

668
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 2: pursued for one reason or another, So we don't know

669
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,240
Speaker 2: anything more about this lead. And then let's bring in Jordan,

670
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 2: the caller you brought up. Could this guy have actually

671
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 2: like that caller who call himself Jordan? Could that have

672
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 2: also been Kelso slash Ogden, whoever that guy was, And

673
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 2: was he just trying to cover his tracks by saying, oh,

674
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 2: he's out in Cairo somewhere, don't worry about him, he's fine.

675
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 2: But either way, this person, Jordan, this caller made himself

676
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 2: very suspicious.

677
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: Right because all we know about this caller is that

678
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: they called themselves Jordan. Yeah, they don't present identification or

679
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: a birth certificate or anything like that. And frankly, we

680
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: have two people who were definitely using multiple fake names,

681
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: right mm hmm, Kelso and Ogletree. We don't really know

682
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,879
Speaker 1: why they were using these fake names, and that that

683
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: I think is a fascinating twist to this tale, because

684
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: that's something they did they don't want you to know,

685
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: and was much easier to travel under an assumed name

686
00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:58,280
Speaker 1: at the time.

687
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:00,720
Speaker 3: This has caused some people.

688
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 1: You can find these in various like independent investigation threads

689
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:11,879
Speaker 1: or the excellent subreddit Unresolved Mysteries. Various people have due

690
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: to the secrecy and the fact they was traveling at

691
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: one point with another guy. They've said perhaps he was

692
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 1: assuming a false identity to pursue a same sex relationship,

693
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: which would have been very controversial at that time. Absolutely,

694
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: but in all fairness, there's not a whole lot like

695
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 1: there's no proof that that was not the case, but

696
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: there's not really any proof that it was the case.

697
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 3: So that's clearly speculation.

698
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it could be sure, but who knows.

699
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 3: Well.

700
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 2: The other big question is was there any kind of

701
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 2: drugs drug involvement one way or the other, in use

702
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 2: or in sales.

703
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 4: Perhaps, Yeah, I don't see how I kind of almost

704
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 4: lump that in with any potential mob connection. Right, they've

705
00:39:55,360 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 4: been part and parcel of the same kind of toxic reallylationship.

706
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: You know, it seemed like he was drinking very, very heavily,

707
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: at least by the time he got to a hotel.

708
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 3: President. Yeah, you learn about the other stuff.

709
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 2: Well, so okay, so using assumed names because you're doing something,

710
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 2: you're you're involved in some kind of illegal activity. That's

711
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 2: why you don't want it to be known who you

712
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:21,879
Speaker 2: actually are. That's so that's what we're saying. I mean,

713
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 2: I can I can imagine that there's a Isn't it

714
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 2: kind of known that in Kansas City, Missouri, around the

715
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 2: nineteen thirties, organized crime was a thing.

716
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this might this might be surprising to some

717
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:39,720
Speaker 1: of us listening, but it's true. The Kansas City Crime Family,

718
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: also known as the Savella Crime Family, is a mafia

719
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:48,240
Speaker 1: mafia outfit based in Kansas City, Missouri. They've been there

720
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 1: since nineteen twelve, when the founders, the di Giovanni brothers,

721
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: fled Sicily and landed in Kansas City, Missouri.

722
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 2: Wow.

723
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 1: I don't know about you, guys, but when I think

724
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: of Kansas City, I think of stuff like barbecue or

725
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 1: maybe there's some great art museums, but I don't immediately

726
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: think of the Mob.

727
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna admit that I don't think about Kansas City,

728
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 2: Missouri enough, and I vow to think about it more.

729
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 4: Very take that vow very seriously, Matt, I am. You

730
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 4: can't vow lightly, sir. I'm gonna quizz you on Kansas

731
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 4: City in a week's time.

732
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 2: All right, do it.

733
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 4: I just know there was a place I think in

734
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 4: New York called Max's Kansas City, and it's not in

735
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 4: Kansas City.

736
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,280
Speaker 3: That's all I know. A restaurant.

737
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 4: I think it's like it was a famous music venue.

738
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, here's here's the weird thing. Not only is

739
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 1: the Mob a force to be reckoned with in Kansas City, Missouri.

740
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 3: But they.

741
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: Had a lot of para governmental control, meaning that you

742
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: know you've heard the stories. We also have a great story.

743
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: I of got to tell you guys off air to

744
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: see if we can get it on the show. But

745
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: we've some of your fellow listeners before to send in

746
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: stories about small town corruption Kansas City in well, it's

747
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: not a small town in the turn of the century,

748
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: in the early nineteen hundreds, there is a lot of

749
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 1: rank corruption prohibition ended in nineteen thirty three, So just

750
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: like a few years before, Artemis Ogletree meets his untimely

751
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: end and the family made a lot of coint off prohibition,

752
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:34,240
Speaker 1: but they also diversified, so they have different rackets, protection

753
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: money from bars and restaurants, right, and things get ugly.

754
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: They're involved in politics too, you know, cooking the books

755
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: and the race for governor of Missouri and things like that.

756
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: So it is completely possible that when we add up

757
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: these dots, these break crumbs, it's completely possible that there's

758
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: an argument for or a criminal underground or the mob.

759
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 2: Can I add one extra thing on top of this

760
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 2: mob connection, because I can totally see this reasoning and

761
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 2: we've illuminated it pretty well. What if he's on the

762
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 2: other side of the law. What if he and Dawn

763
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 2: or maybe just he was actually an agent of some

764
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 2: sort that was investigating some of the organized crime and

765
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 2: that's why he ended up getting taken out, And then

766
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 2: it's the mob connections that are arranging his funeral or

767
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 2: you know, paying for his funeral, putting him by his sister.

768
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 2: What if he was a rat?

769
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 3: Maybe?

770
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: I mean, the only the cops did hold that funeral. Right, Yeah,

771
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: there was a funeral service, but the detectives on the

772
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: case were the only people who attended the funeral. Aha,

773
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: which also makes you think, you know what I mean,

774
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 1: because if it's just a case, why would you go

775
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: to the funeral.

776
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 2: To just to to case the joint to see if

777
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 2: anybody shows.

778
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,240
Speaker 3: Up, right, to see if someone takes the bait.

779
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 2: Or if he is a part of your team.

780
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 1: Or if he's you know, if he's one of those

781
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 1: undercover cops. People who work undercover at that at that

782
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: kind of level of intelligence. It's brutal life, and you

783
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: know a lot of times they're never in the spotlight.

784
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: They can't compromise.

785
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 2: It's true.

786
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, whire, It's true, Ben, Thanks, Matt. I was

787
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: just going to keep saying each other's.

788
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 2: Names in the State Department.

789
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 3: So so.

790
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: It is true. It's it's not proof positive. It is

791
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: true that the Kansas mob could and did murder multiple

792
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 1: people in this time period without a ton of interference

793
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: from regional or federal authorities, some because they were bought

794
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 1: off or they were already in the thick of the corruption,

795
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: and others because their hands were tied.

796
00:44:58,520 --> 00:44:58,800
Speaker 2: Wow.

797
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 3: Right, So is that the end of the story. Not really.

798
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 1: This is very strange because we have to ask ourselves

799
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:14,479
Speaker 1: whether a cover up persist. You see, decades and decades later,

800
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: there's a researcher based at the Kansas City Public Library.

801
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 3: Unlike a lot.

802
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 1: Of residents or residents of Missouri or residence of Kansas City,

803
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 1: this researcher has a hobby they look into these kind

804
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 1: of cases, so they are familiar with the case of

805
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 1: Artemis Okle Tree. They receive an anonymous phone call and

806
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 1: the caller first starts asking questions, have you heard of

807
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 1: the Ogletree case? Have you heard of the person calling

808
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: themselves Roland t Owen, and they say, yes, I'm familiar

809
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: with it. I'm a researcher. And then this anonymous caller

810
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: says they had someone who's close to them pass away,

811
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 1: and they've been going through the belongings of this person

812
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: because they had died quite recently, and they found a box.

813
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: Within this box, there were multiple newspapers flippings all about

814
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 1: the same story, the so called mystery of Room ten

815
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 1: forty six. But that's not all they find. They also

816
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 1: say they find something that's the quote, something that was

817
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 1: mentioned in these articles. M and then they hang up.

818
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 1: These people have terrible phone etiquette. Really, it's like out

819
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 1: in television and in film. No one ever says goodbye

820
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: on the phone. Yeah, and there's immediately a dial town. Yes,

821
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 1: it's true, as we know, it is not how phones work.

822
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. So that's where we're left at this

823
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 2: point in twenty nineteen, the old Artemis Ogletree rowing to

824
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 2: Owen story. That's where we're left.

825
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: Who was this mystery caller? Was it a surviving relative

826
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: of ogle Tree's murderer and a surviving relative or friend

827
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: of his former lover, his paramore.

828
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,800
Speaker 2: What do you think, honestly? Do you think it was

829
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 2: mob involvement? Do you think it was just a love

830
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 2: triangle gone wrong? Uh? Just tell us, tell us your

831
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 2: best theory and support it please with arguments. Then we

832
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 2: will combine all of those, and Ben and Nolea and

833
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 2: I will sit around a desk somewhere and we'll figure

834
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 2: it out just just to ourselves. We will tell you

835
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 2: guys about it.

836
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 1: And also, if you are listening to this and you

837
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 1: are related to someone with inside knowledge of this case,

838
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 1: and you want to break it down for us anonymously,

839
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 1: we'd love to hear you out you can write, and

840
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 1: that's our classic episode for this evening. We can't wait

841
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts. We try to be easy to

842
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 1: find online.

843
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,760
Speaker 4: Find us at the handle conspiracy Stuff, where we exist

844
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 4: on Facebook x and YouTube, on Instagram and TikTok.

845
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:52,240
Speaker 3: We're conspiracy Stuff.

846
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:57,479
Speaker 2: Show call our number. It's one eight three three std WYTK.

847
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 3: Leave a voicemail and if you have more to say,

848
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 3: we can't wait to hear from you at our good

849
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 3: old fashioned email address where we are conspiracy at iHeartRadio

850
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 3: dot com.

851
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production

852
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:13,839
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

853
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,800
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.