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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keene, along

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Speaker 1: with Jonathan Ferrell and Lisa Brownwitz Jay Leye. We bring

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Speaker 1: you insight from the best and economics, finance, investment, and

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Speaker 1: international relations. Find Bloomberg Surveillance, an Apple podcast, Suncloud, Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: dot Com and of course on the Bloomberg terminal. Markey

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Speaker 1: the Town joined this now Faga Bust the management Senior

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Speaker 1: port folio manager Mark. I'll start with a question I

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Speaker 1: started this morning with with Lisa. You'll ten ure yield

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Speaker 1: one eight. Why we downhead? Uh, Well, I think we're

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Speaker 1: down here because the treasury curve is really, i think

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Speaker 1: kept suppressed by what the FETE is going. They anchored

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Speaker 1: short rates low, they've been really buying a lot of

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Speaker 1: the longer duration UH treasury bonds long term and so

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Speaker 1: really there's no place with the demand for treasury securities

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Speaker 1: to go except the middle part. So you see a

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Speaker 1: lot of express seeing of emotion in the middle park.

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Speaker 1: I think it shows people are worried about inflation, yes,

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Speaker 1: but they're also worried about what if you called me

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Speaker 1: slows down from deceleration or from COVID. Also, it is

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Speaker 1: high as he pointed out, compared to guilds and the

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Speaker 1: rest of the world, the dollars stabilized. So really attenduere

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Speaker 1: one thirty plus or minus looks like a pretty decent investment. So, Markie,

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Speaker 1: based on your view if this perhaps has driven by

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Speaker 1: what the Federal Reserve is doing, based in the fact

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Speaker 1: that you could see foreign buying, do you count on

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Speaker 1: yields remaining around here for the foreseeable future when you decide,

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Speaker 1: you know what equities still look like A bye yes,

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Speaker 1: number one, Because Sharon Powis told us so. He thinks

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Speaker 1: inflation is transitory. He wants to lengthen out that period

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Speaker 1: where we look at even reducing the amount of purchases

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Speaker 1: they're doing with treasuries and mortgages. So I believe what

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Speaker 1: he says. They have the power to do that, And

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Speaker 1: I think he's holding his breath when he thinks about

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Speaker 1: what if we very slight and taper and we see

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Speaker 1: some explosion in the marketplace. So I think they don't

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Speaker 1: want to see that. They're going to keep on this course. Uh,

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Speaker 1: what they think about inflation coming down is more important

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Speaker 1: than what the market things, and also their other goal

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Speaker 1: of employment. They still claim that there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: slack in the labor market, so that gives them a

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Speaker 1: lot of pace even if inflation isn't really doing what

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Speaker 1: they'd like it to do. How important have earning season

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Speaker 1: been this year? Well, I think they've shown what people

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Speaker 1: expected are very very strong in the first quarter, and

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Speaker 1: I think we may once again be surprised in the

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Speaker 1: second quarter to see earns being much stronger than maybe

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Speaker 1: we might have thought. We might have looked for a

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Speaker 1: little bit of margin pressure, and my feeling is we're

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Speaker 1: going to see companies continue to operate with less their

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Speaker 1: sales are going up, they maintain their their labor force costs,

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Speaker 1: either through productivity or just not hiring. So I think

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Speaker 1: we may have another very pleasant surprise um in the

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Speaker 1: second quarters. You start to roll that out, not just

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Speaker 1: over the course of this earning season, but really since

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Speaker 1: last earning season mid March, we've seen the Russell two

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Speaker 1: thousand down about seven percent from its peak, and over

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Speaker 1: the same time, the NAZAC one hundred is up about

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Speaker 1: over that time. What do you want to do with

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Speaker 1: small caps now, Well, I think that's the thing you

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Speaker 1: see also in ASDAC it was very very large. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you might say high growing safety kind of stalks the

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Speaker 1: thing they have so far outpaced the rest of the market.

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Speaker 1: Good example was the airlines which you cited, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's typical. Lots of stock, small cap or even

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Speaker 1: some larger are really down from their peak in March.

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Speaker 1: By ten fifteen, they've even and I think that shows

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Speaker 1: that mixture is people want to be in the market,

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Speaker 1: but they want something safe, so they keep sticking with

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Speaker 1: the thangs and things keep going up, and the rest

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Speaker 1: of the market seems to be churning around small cap,

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Speaker 1: MidCap or even large camp market just quickly and finally

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Speaker 1: even I've got a chat about this in the past,

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Speaker 1: just how much sick the countity is left in this

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Speaker 1: credit market. Does the cycle matter anymore to what's going on? No,

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Speaker 1: I don't think we have a cycle anymore. I think

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Speaker 1: the FED determines that were on a you might say,

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Speaker 1: a secular path of low growth around the very very

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Speaker 1: low range of meals what a cool market. We've got

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Speaker 1: to follow up on that another time. You know, I'm

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Speaker 1: fascinated by this call of yours. MARKT. Bittel of Wells

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Speaker 1: Fargo MESA Management, Senior portfolio Managers patent fixed income. Chief

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Speaker 1: investment strategist ahead of Global Bonds, Rob Steve Major of

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Speaker 1: hsp C says we cannot afford higher rates, that this

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Speaker 1: might be the cycle peak for the yield curve already.

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Speaker 1: What do you say, Yeah, I think we have seen

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Speaker 1: the peak in rage probably for the cycle. There could

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Speaker 1: be another twin peak later on UM, but I think

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Speaker 1: that is one of the underpinnings of the long term decline,

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Speaker 1: secular decline in rates, aging demographics and high debt burdens

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Speaker 1: that economies that are incredibly indebted, and there's been a

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Speaker 1: secular rise in debt to GDP ratios across UH the

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Speaker 1: developed world, and the upshot of that is you simply

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Speaker 1: cannot afford the higher interest rates that you had before.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's entirely reasonable to expect we're going

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Speaker 1: to get a lower peak for rates in the cycle

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Speaker 1: that last time, and we've probably already seen it. Bro,

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Speaker 1: Is that consensus at this point? I mean, that's a

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Speaker 1: pretty bold call that you and Steve Major over HSPC

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Speaker 1: are making that we have seen the peak in ten

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Speaker 1: year treasure yields for this economic cycle. Are people prepared

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Speaker 1: for that? Yeah? Well, it isn't him. It is. If

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Speaker 1: you ask forecasters, and forecasters have been consistently to barish

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Speaker 1: on the market, they would say, no, you know you're

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Speaker 1: gonna see two per cent or what have you. Um,

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Speaker 1: And that's that's entirely reasonable given the economic picture that

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Speaker 1: that you're looking at. But if you look at the market,

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Speaker 1: you look at the price action in the market, you're

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Speaker 1: seeing something that you haven't seen for for decades or

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Speaker 1: even hundreds of years, which is an interest rate cycle

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Speaker 1: that runs almost exclusively through the front end of the

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Speaker 1: Yeok curve. So when you're on the gold standard, there

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Speaker 1: was faith that the central bank would control inflation because

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Speaker 1: the fiscal could not get out of control. The back

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Speaker 1: end of the Yolk curve would be relatively stable as

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Speaker 1: short rates would go up and down, And you didn't

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Speaker 1: see that. You didn't see that. In when there was

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Speaker 1: a fear of the Fed raising rates, the entire yield

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Speaker 1: curb went up. But what we've seen this time with

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Speaker 1: the dot plot and the dot plot I think has

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Speaker 1: been a nuisance for the Fed for a long time

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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, or at least for people

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Speaker 1: trying to explain what's going on there. But seeing those

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Speaker 1: scenarios where if you have high inflation, the FED is

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Speaker 1: going to get into action. The you already have a

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Speaker 1: large swath of the participants at that meeting that are

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Speaker 1: ready to go uh. And what you saw on the

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Speaker 1: back end was the markets that are you know, we

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Speaker 1: have faith that in a overheating scenario, the feed is

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Speaker 1: going to contain inflation and therefore long range do not

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Speaker 1: need to go up. And in fact, if the Fed

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Speaker 1: is a balanced group, and up until this point, I

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Speaker 1: think market had been leaning towards they're gonna stay on

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Speaker 1: hold too long and let inflation get away. If this

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Speaker 1: is a balanced group, that we're gonna have lower growth

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Speaker 1: than we expected six months ago in the long run,

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Speaker 1: and you're gonna have lower rates in the long run.

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Speaker 1: Talking about lower growth, let's talk about real yields. We're

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Speaker 1: sitting in the ballpark of negative a hundred and five

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Speaker 1: basis points. Will they go even more deeply negative? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think the thing that people have to wrap their

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Speaker 1: mind around is you're kind of in a a new

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Speaker 1: permanent area for real rates. I mean in in UH.

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Speaker 1: In my view, the FED funds rate is just about zero. Now.

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Speaker 1: The peak of the last cycle was around two and

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Speaker 1: three eights. The peak this cycle will probably be significantly

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Speaker 1: lower than that because of these secular fundamentals. And if

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Speaker 1: you're gonna be averaging a FED funds rate that's maybe

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Speaker 1: a half percent or one percent or less, the cash

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Speaker 1: rate in real terms is going to be significantly negative

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Speaker 1: the vast majority of the time. And you have to

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Speaker 1: get used to seeing a negative real yield term structure,

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Speaker 1: So yields are going to be in these lower range.

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Speaker 1: You know, when things are really bad, maybe the tenure

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Speaker 1: rallies to a half percent, And as we're seeing, if

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Speaker 1: the economy is searing hot and inflation is soaring, you

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Speaker 1: might get a two percent ten youre uh. And if

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Speaker 1: that's the case and inflation on average is two percent

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Speaker 1: on the CBI, there's gonna be a lot of negative

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Speaker 1: real yields. So if some bunts there robs, so let's

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Speaker 1: put a boone on this, or we start this conversation

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Speaker 1: by asking you whether you think we've seen a cycle

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Speaker 1: peak and yields you suggested we had. I want to

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Speaker 1: just really make it clear why your positioned on credit

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Speaker 1: and how it relates to that view on shorts and

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Speaker 1: making that cycle cool already right. Well, I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: what we've typically seen is that you get an economic recovery,

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Speaker 1: have a big tightening and spreads, but as that economic

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Speaker 1: recovery progresses, that spreads tend to stay fairly narrow, and

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Speaker 1: that that's likely to be the case this time. UM. Now,

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Speaker 1: the one thing we haven't talked about is that taper,

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Speaker 1: and I think, um, you know, uh, summers are a

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Speaker 1: difficult period for the market, and UM, what we're kind

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Speaker 1: of setting up for right now is to get to August,

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Speaker 1: have interest rates pretty low, and have the FED coming

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Speaker 1: and shock the market with their taper announcement. So you know,

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, this is going to be a

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Speaker 1: transition year. That's been our view all year, where rates

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Speaker 1: are cresting. I think we have seen the highs, but

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Speaker 1: it's not going to be a completely smooth ride as

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Speaker 1: we go forward, and that will jar credit a bit

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Speaker 1: as we go through. UM. But in general, looking twelve

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Speaker 1: to twenty four months out, I think you're going to

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Speaker 1: get some additional outperformance from credit. And the surprising thing

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Speaker 1: that we've been saying, uh and and believe to be

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Speaker 1: the case twelve to twenty four months out is that

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Speaker 1: the yield the rolldown factoration portion of the bond market

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Speaker 1: is also going to contribute, and people staying at their

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Speaker 1: strategic as allocations are probably gonna get the best results.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people watching the show have probably thought

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Speaker 1: it has become bond show today because that has been

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Speaker 1: where the entire focus has been. But that's where the

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Speaker 1: focus has been for equities to And when you say

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Speaker 1: that monetary policy may be executed entirely on the front

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Speaker 1: end during this cycle, it makes me think that we're

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Speaker 1: going to see a much flatter yield curve going forward.

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Speaker 1: If that is the case, which is a bad thing

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Speaker 1: for banks, which has been a big call for a

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Speaker 1: lot of equity investors. Is that what you're saying that

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Speaker 1: we've already seen the peak in yield curve steepening? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I think so. Yeah. I mean if um, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: long rates on the tenure are going to be peaking,

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Speaker 1: you know, sub two percent bouncing around in this area.

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Speaker 1: Typically financials they like to see higher yields. Uh and um,

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Speaker 1: you know that doesn't look to be in the cards.

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Speaker 1: It looks like you're going to have stability. The one

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Speaker 1: thing that the credit cycle has going for it, and

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Speaker 1: that would include financials is the really good asset performance.

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Speaker 1: There are concerns about asset quality as at the early

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Speaker 1: stages of the crisis, and I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: those concerns, you know, are falling by the wayside as

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Speaker 1: we go forward, as we get information you know from

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Speaker 1: the bank's going on here. So I think the underlying

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Speaker 1: fundamentals of an expanding economy of corporations that have liquefied,

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Speaker 1: that are able to roll out down, extend of maturities

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Speaker 1: out uh, you know, continues to provide a background where

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Speaker 1: there a lot of opportunities across the credit spectrum from

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Speaker 1: you know, local and hard currency, emerging markets, UH, invest

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Speaker 1: regrading and how your proper bonds as well as structural products.

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Speaker 1: Rob going to catch up. I love the team of PGM.

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Speaker 1: It always come out with a call, a proper call,

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Speaker 1: Robert Tip of PGM. Rob going to hear from your mate.

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Speaker 1: Good to see you too. Let's turn to David Page

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Speaker 1: of Acts for Investment Managers, the head of macro Economic staates.

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Speaker 1: Let's start there. Just your response to the data, not

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Speaker 1: just this morning, but through this week. So I think

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Speaker 1: you've got a very mixed bag. I mean, the consumer

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Speaker 1: thankfully actually coming through reasonably solidly here, but we have

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Speaker 1: seen a relatively week months and months quarter across Q

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Speaker 1: two after we've seen that obviously, that huge surge come

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Speaker 1: through in March. What caught our eye over the last

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Speaker 1: week has been the drop in weekly consumer confidence as well.

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Speaker 1: We've seen the fastest retracement in consumer confidence over the

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Speaker 1: three weeks than we've seen since last December. So there's

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Speaker 1: a really mixed bag here. Yes, you're seeing price pressures

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Speaker 1: come through, but those we recognize to be frictions to

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Speaker 1: the economy, not something that's that's necessarily reflecting strong demand.

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Speaker 1: That's something that's actually sort of a headwind to growth

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Speaker 1: if you like. You've had industrial production a little bit

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Speaker 1: softer than expected, manufacturing dipping again for the second time

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Speaker 1: in the quater um, and some of the surveys, you know,

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Speaker 1: Empire State survey yesterday, through the Roof series high others

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Speaker 1: just starting to come off a little bit. And we

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Speaker 1: think back to that non manufacturing I s M which

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Speaker 1: also included a sharp drop in the employment number. And

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Speaker 1: there are some pretty mixed messages come through here. Now.

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Speaker 1: I think you know the backdrop is Q two GDP

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Speaker 1: number looked pretty solid we've been looking for a cent

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Speaker 1: annualized for some time. We'll find tune on the back

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Speaker 1: of these numbers, but it looks pretty consistent in that area.

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Speaker 1: But I think that it's going to be slightly more

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Speaker 1: challenging for Q three UM, and that's one of the

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Speaker 1: things that it's going to be watching when it thinks

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Speaker 1: about sort of trying to send that signal as to

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Speaker 1: just when it will be watching. As you say, it's

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Speaker 1: really hard to read the data. It's really hard to

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Speaker 1: read what it should mean for the body market two

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Speaker 1: yield to higher by a couple of basis points one

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Speaker 1: or two through the curve here. But on the week

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Speaker 1: we've had that hot CPI, that hot PPI, that hot

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Speaker 1: retail sales, print and yield are still lower on the

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Speaker 1: week a little bit earlier today. In fact, thirty minutes ago,

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Speaker 1: we asked Robert Tip of p JIM whether he thinks

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Speaker 1: we've seen a cycle peak in yields. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to what rob had to say. I think we have

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Speaker 1: seen the peak in rage probably for the cycle. That

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Speaker 1: could be another twin peak later on, but I think

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Speaker 1: that is one of the underpinnings of the long term

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Speaker 1: decline secular decline in raids aging demographics and had that

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Speaker 1: burdens deva page. Your reaction to that sound that response

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Speaker 1: from Robert Tip of PGM. You know, I think that's

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Speaker 1: probably a little bit pessimistic for the outlook for gross

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Speaker 1: and I think one of the key issues here is

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Speaker 1: going to be what comes through in terms of spending.

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Speaker 1: We are expecting to see a very large stimulus package

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Speaker 1: come through. Its not being as easy as Biden perhaps

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Speaker 1: thought it might have been, but we are expecting to

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Speaker 1: see in September the government actually put some significant spending

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Speaker 1: programs in which we think are going to lift potential

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Speaker 1: growth for the US going further forwards. It's not a

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Speaker 1: deficit finance argument. This is something that we think is

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Speaker 1: actually money going where it needs to go in the

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Speaker 1: U S where it's not gone for some time. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's going to support the outlook if we

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Speaker 1: take a step back and think what the Fed things.

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Speaker 1: The Fed things that the terminal rate for the Fed

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Speaker 1: funds is two and a half per cent. Now, okay,

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Speaker 1: we could have an argument around that twenty five basis

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Speaker 1: points either side quite comfortably, but it's unusual to see

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Speaker 1: bond yields topping out at such a low level. If

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Speaker 1: we think that the terminal rate is going to be

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Speaker 1: at noce of two percent, and I think certainly as

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Speaker 1: time goes by and as we get close to that

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Speaker 1: point where we are going to see the FED tightening,

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Speaker 1: and we think that happens in three and not any

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Speaker 1: time later, So you get closer to that than there's

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Speaker 1: ten yields and the two yelds are all going to

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Speaker 1: start to respect these rates going higher. So I think

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Speaker 1: it's it's up to our minds. We're expecting to see

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Speaker 1: yields rising. We think, you know, back to one seventy

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Speaker 1: five by the end of this year is likely, or

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Speaker 1: I think it could be quite a long summer. But

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Speaker 1: I think we'll see them climb higher than that as

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Speaker 1: we move over the next year or so. So what's

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Speaker 1: the decide thing factor? Here? Is what I'm hearing from you,

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Speaker 1: that it's more important to look at Washington d C

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Speaker 1: and what plan they might pass, and any of the

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Speaker 1: incoming data of it come in for the most part

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Speaker 1: harder than expected, or have been for the past few weeks. Now,

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Speaker 1: I think what we've seen from d C is going

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Speaker 1: to give the economy a significant rebound across the course

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Speaker 1: of this year, and we've been tailoring how our forecast

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Speaker 1: a little bit lower, we think six point four one,

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Speaker 1: but by and larger. Seeing a very strong rebound comes through,

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Speaker 1: you're going to see the economy move into a position

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Speaker 1: of excess demand, and that's something that that ultimately is

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Speaker 1: going to govern how the Federal Reserve moves. I think

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Speaker 1: when we look to the longer term, there are questions

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Speaker 1: about whether or not there's there's scarring in the economy,

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Speaker 1: um just how much readjustment the economy is going to

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Speaker 1: have to take to get to get over this pandemic.

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Speaker 1: But I think that's where you start looking at those

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Speaker 1: longer term spending plans and you think, well, yes, there

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Speaker 1: could be some downside, but there's possibly some upside coming

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Speaker 1: through from here as well. So I think DC is

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Speaker 1: important for the longer term, but I think in terms

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Speaker 1: of what we're likely to see from the Fed and

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Speaker 1: what we're like from the economy of the next six months,

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Speaker 1: the stimulus that's been injected into the economy already is

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Speaker 1: a key feature here, but from markets will always before

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Speaker 1: looking DEVI page of acts Investor Management, Dave, You've got

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Speaker 1: to catch ups on this data. Jonathan Miller has been

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Speaker 1: covering this industry for decades at Miller Samuel, He's the

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Speaker 1: president and chief executive officer, with incredible data and insight

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Speaker 1: into the trends. Do we have housing shortage at this

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Speaker 1: point in the big cities given that we're starting to

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Speaker 1: see a little bit of interest or is there still

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Speaker 1: a massive glut that needs to get filled. I actually

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Speaker 1: think it's somewhere in between. Uh So, for example, in

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Speaker 1: New York, we saw since January when we had near

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Speaker 1: record inventory, we've seen inventory fall about I think the

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Speaker 1: way to look at urban markets around the country is

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Speaker 1: that the suburbs got all the attention. That's where the

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Speaker 1: outbound migration was initially, and so I would look at

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Speaker 1: the city's I'm not saying we returned exactly to normal,

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Speaker 1: but clearly elevated inventory levels are coming down and we're

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Speaker 1: seeing it's clearly not as tight as the suburbs are

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Speaker 1: at record lows or surrounding New York and other markets

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Speaker 1: that we cover. But if we're seeing inventory really fall

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Speaker 1: sharply in the cities as well, because demand purchase activity

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Speaker 1: has skyrocketed from year ago levels, which was the lockdown period.

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Speaker 1: But even when we compare two years ago, same period

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Speaker 1: we're looking at, for example, in Manhattan, sales are up

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Speaker 1: about over uh second quarter two thousand nineteen numbers. But Jonathan,

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Speaker 1: that's because everybody wants a deal. Have we seen the

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Speaker 1: bottom and prices or is these all the bottom feeders

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Speaker 1: coming in to try to pick up things cheap? I

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Speaker 1: think the window is just about closed on that. If

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Speaker 1: you look in an you know, at the aggregate numbers,

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Speaker 1: you're really talking about market that's within three it's about

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Speaker 1: three to five cent per cent below what it was

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Speaker 1: in the same period two years ago, which would be

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Speaker 1: the pre COVID sort of benchmark. And uh, but that

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Speaker 1: that is really compressing. One thing about the city cities

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Speaker 1: in general, is that rental markets are generally hit much

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Speaker 1: harder than purchase markets because renters are more you know,

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Speaker 1: more flexible, they're not they don't have to sell a

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Speaker 1: property during a global pandemic. And what we're also seeing

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Speaker 1: at the same time is in Manhattan specifically, we're seeing

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Speaker 1: new leasing activity for the last three months has been

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Speaker 1: at all time record levels, and so what that's doing

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Speaker 1: is burning off the significant inventory and actually in some

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Speaker 1: segments of the rental market. I'm not trying to be

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Speaker 1: sort of sensational here, but we're actually seeing bidding wars

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Speaker 1: on rental properties starting to emerge, which is highly unusual. Jonathan,

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Speaker 1: You're making me so glad resigned my lease when I did,

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Speaker 1: because when I did it back in the spring, I

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Speaker 1: got a couple of months off, I got my rent

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Speaker 1: monthly rate lower. If I were to do that now,

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Speaker 1: or if I were to try to do that now,

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Speaker 1: they'd send me out the door because someone else is

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Speaker 1: willing to pay more. And I live down in the

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Speaker 1: financial district. It's gotten a lot busier over the past

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Speaker 1: couple of months. But are people like me where they

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Speaker 1: want to live kind of close to offices, close to

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Speaker 1: the places that they work, or has COVID changed that.

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Speaker 1: Are we seeing the places even within the city that

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Speaker 1: people want to habit eate different? Right? Right? Right? So

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Speaker 1: that's a that's an excellent point. And we're actually seeing

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Speaker 1: Wall Street firms, a number of the big ones basically

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Speaker 1: say come back to work five days a week, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, and they're sort of, uh, sort of ahead

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Speaker 1: of the pack. Uh. One of the one of the

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Speaker 1: things we have to sort out is I think we're

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Speaker 1: going to have perfect callbacks for employees are going to

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Speaker 1: really ratchet up beginning in September and throughout the fall,

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Speaker 1: and that's going to breathe a lot of oxygen and

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Speaker 1: just level retail. And right now, as I always say,

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Speaker 1: we're at peaks zoom, we're really you know that everything is,

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Speaker 1: everything is sort of being recalibrated. Um. One thing that

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Speaker 1: really I think is a misunderstanding too, is that work

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Speaker 1: from home. That phrase implies to many work from the

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Speaker 1: sub suburbs at home, and that's not true. You're going

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Speaker 1: to have plenty of people working remotely, you know, a

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Speaker 1: couple of days a week from the Upper East Side

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Speaker 1: or you know, whatever neighborhood, just because of the sheer

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Speaker 1: density of workers in the city. So Jonathan, Lisa and

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Speaker 1: I are a little bit biased, and we think, you know,

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Speaker 1: New York maybe is the only market that matters, because

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Speaker 1: it's the one that matters to us. But you obviously

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Speaker 1: cover a lot more throughout the country, including South Florida.

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Speaker 1: And we've talked a lot here in New York about

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Speaker 1: the flight to Florida, to what extent has that actually

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Speaker 1: taken shape, what does demand looking like down there? So Florida,

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Speaker 1: just like most housing markets in the country, has a

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Speaker 1: chronic lack of supply. UH. An example, UH months of

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Speaker 1: supply for um UH luxury condominiums in Miami. UH two

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Speaker 1: years ago was something like three to four years to

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Speaker 1: sell off. Now it's about eight months. So there's been

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Speaker 1: a tremendous absorption of of all price points, but even

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Speaker 1: the most problematic, which had been sort of the high

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Speaker 1: end market. And I think a big reason for that.

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Speaker 1: I think the escape from New York UH sort of

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Speaker 1: UM narrative is a little bit overblown because essentially, I

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Speaker 1: think zoom or remote working has given perfect executives much

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Speaker 1: more flexibility on where they have to be at any

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Speaker 1: given time, and the way I described as the tether

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Speaker 1: between work and home has become infinitely longer, So there's

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Speaker 1: a lot more flexibility. What's really different this time in Florida,

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Speaker 1: and we cover about fourteen housing markets there, UH, is that,

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Speaker 1: besides the low inventory, is that we're seeing an inversion

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Speaker 1: of what's performing. It's skewing. Instead of softest at the top,

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Speaker 1: it's actually inverted and we're seeing the upper half of

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Speaker 1: any given markets. So we're seeing some big pricing in

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Speaker 1: markets that we might not have seen before. So it's

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Speaker 1: not just a couple of locales, it's it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a big footprint. Jonathan Miller, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: that Inside Jonathan Miller Miller Samuel, President and chief executive Officer.

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Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Thanks for listening. Join

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Speaker 1: the terminal. I'm Tom keene In. This is Bloomberg