1 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 1: And they said, well, why do you want to name 2 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: it hold for Prisons. 3 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 2: This is what I said to him, was that the 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: number one reason why I'm naming it over prisons because God. 5 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: Told me to a period. 6 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 2: Right, I got it, And I said, the other reason 7 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 2: why I'm naming it Hold for Prison is because the 8 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 2: mission of our organization is to help to create a 9 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 2: massive amount of people who come home from the prison system, 10 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 2: and not only do they never re offend again, that 11 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 2: they begin to live levels of life that most people 12 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 2: want to dream of. When we do that, then they 13 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 2: become the whole for prisons. 14 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: That's a beautiful thing. 15 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 3: Brother, Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. 16 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 3: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, 17 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 3: I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm a football coach in inner 18 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 3: City Memphis. And the last part unintentionally led to an 19 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 3: oscar for the film about our football team. It's called Undefeated. 20 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 3: I believe our country's problems will never be solved by 21 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 3: a bunch of fancy people and nice suits talking big 22 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 3: words that nobody understands on sanin in Fox. Rather an 23 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 3: army of normal folks, us you and me, just deciding, hey, 24 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 3: I can help. That's what John Ponder, the voice we 25 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 3: just heard, has done. A former prisoner himself, John led 26 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 3: a life of crime for twenty six years until finally 27 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 3: he found his own hope, oddly inside a federal penitentiary. 28 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,759 Speaker 3: It's an incredible story that we're about to share with you. 29 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 3: Hope for prisoners. His nonprofit helps returning citizens in Las Vegas, 30 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 3: those coming home from prison, just like he once did, 31 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 3: to flourish and not just become one more member of 32 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 3: a dreaded statistic sixty seven percent, two thirds of former 33 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 3: prisoners end up back in prison within three years. And 34 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 3: Hope for prisoners, the recidivism rate is only eight percent. 35 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 3: That means they're over eight times better than the status quo. 36 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 3: Just wait, do you hear the secret sauce behind what 37 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 3: John does? And John doesn't want it to be a 38 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 3: secret anymore. He wants to share it with you. So 39 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 3: let's get started. But first, a brief message from our 40 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 3: general sponsors, Jean Ponder, an interesting dude, how are you today? 41 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 2: Man? 42 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: Man? I am doing terrific. Thank you so much for asking. 43 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 3: Man. It is so good to be in your offices 44 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 3: in Las Vegas and I can't wait to tell the 45 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 3: listeners what I just listened a little later. That is 46 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 3: some inspirational, redemptive stuff I saw, and we'll talk about 47 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 3: that in a minute. But first, this is an army 48 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 3: in thermal folks. I don't go around the country interviewing 49 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 3: big wig politicians and the smart people that know everything. 50 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 3: Then I like to I like to talk to normal 51 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 3: folks that do extraordinary things, like yourself. And so first, 52 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 3: you know, John, where are you from? Where'd you grow up? 53 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 3: Tell me? Tell me about tell me about John the 54 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 3: young man. 55 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I grew up in the streets of New York, 56 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 2: Brooklyn and Long Island. 57 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: Spent a lot of time out in Long Island. 58 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 3: Or you can hear it when you say Brooklyn. 59 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I get excited. It's coming out even more. That's right, 60 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: got it? But single parent home. 61 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 2: Dad left home at a very early age. You leave 62 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 2: your mom raising five knucklehead boys and one knucklehead girl 63 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 2: all by herself, you know. And I think that growing 64 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 2: up in that environment, my story is not much different 65 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 2: than any you know, many in the other urban. 66 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: Communities, right without the dad. 67 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 2: Growing up in that type of environment, you know, that 68 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: led me to the streets to kind of validate masculinity, right, 69 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 2: get it, man. So the streets led me to the drugs. 70 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 2: Dreads let me to the gangs. Gangs led me to 71 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 2: the criminal activity. That criminal activity led to me to 72 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 2: my very first set of handcuffs at the tend rage 73 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 2: of twelve years old. 74 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 3: Twelve you got locked up? Twelve years old? Did you 75 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:13,839 Speaker 3: get locked up or arrested? As old? 76 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,039 Speaker 2: It was? It was arrested as a juvenile, but it 77 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 2: kind of you know, started from there. 78 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 3: No, it was. It was it was popping the cork 79 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 3: off the top. 80 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 2: Right, absolutely, And because my older brothers were already getting 81 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 2: in trouble. I'm the second to the baby, but I 82 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 2: watched my older brothers in the streets as well and 83 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 2: getting in trouble and so forth and so on. 84 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: So at twelve years old that, you know, just that. 85 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 2: Arrest, it had become the norm, right. It was like 86 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 2: the expectations of. 87 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 3: So my dad left when I was four and I'm 88 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 3: fifty four now, John and I spent until I was 89 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 3: about forty seven or eight trying to figure out why 90 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 3: my father didn't value me. And I spent a lot 91 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 3: of time working to prove my worth to myself, because 92 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 3: you get this weird thing when your father leaves, especially 93 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 3: as young strapping man, that hey, I got to prove 94 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 3: that I'm valuable enough so the next person doesn't leave me. 95 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 3: And I felt that way when you came up. You 96 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 3: had big brothers and stuff. So did you follow in 97 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 3: their footsteps because they filled a little bit of masculinity 98 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,239 Speaker 3: void or were you trying to prove yourself to the streets. 99 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 3: I mean, give me a feel for what that really was. 100 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think you're right. I was following it, 101 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 2: and there's footsteps, but they were going down the wrong path, right, 102 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 2: So not getting any satisfaction out there. I like to 103 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 2: tell people that I began to live my life growing 104 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 2: up somebody that I was not right. 105 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: In otherwords, I grew up and I was wearing a mask. 106 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 2: I had become to everybody in the world around me 107 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 2: who it was I. 108 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: Thought they wanted to see. 109 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,720 Speaker 2: I know that, and it wasn't even me, right, grown 110 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 2: up wearing a mask, right, and I'm going into relationship 111 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 2: through relationship to relationship, you know, wearing different masks. I 112 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 2: call it like the falsehoods of masculinity. 113 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 3: I get it insecurity is what it is oh, absolutely absolutely. Well, 114 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 3: I mean, you look at me, You're good looking, I'm fat, redhitted, 115 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 3: So you know I already have built in insecurity, right, 116 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 3: and then you to cack it on. I feel that 117 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 3: I've read though, that when your mom had had it 118 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 3: with the six Knucklehead family, that she would ship you 119 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 3: kids off to some grandparents. Tell me about tell me 120 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 3: about that experience. 121 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I had my mom was ship was down 122 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: to Mississippi. 123 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 3: Well, when I read that, I started giggling because a 124 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 3: young man from Brooklyn, from New York, from the main 125 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 3: streets wearing Mississippi. 126 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: For it was it was equipment, the soda Mississippi. 127 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 3: That first of all, that just had to be culture 128 00:06:57,880 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 3: shock in and of itself. 129 00:06:59,080 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: Bro. 130 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was, and it was it was fun 131 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 2: because the city kids are getting down into the farmlands 132 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 2: of Mississippi. 133 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I get it. 134 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 2: But the thing about going down to Mississippi. You know, 135 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 2: I had a grandmother. 136 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: Her name was Medea. It was the It's not the Tyler, this. 137 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 2: Was Medea, medeir right, And we get down the Mississippi, 138 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 2: and boy, I tell you, Medea loved Jesus and Medea 139 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 2: would take those city kids and we go to Seas 140 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 2: and Rollbucks and Meridian, Mississippi, and she would buy all 141 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 2: these like Sunday school clothes, and she would get us 142 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 2: in Saint John's Church and she's got us in front 143 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 2: of that dusty black piano and she's teaching us all 144 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 2: these hymns and you know, songs like yes, Jesus Loves Me. 145 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 3: What what denomination was Saint John's and. 146 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 2: Saint John's was was was a Lutheran church? 147 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 3: A Lutheran church in Meridian. 148 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: No, that was actually in the Soto, Mississippi. 149 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 3: New York kid getting in trouble getting down to Mississippi 150 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 3: with Medea the grandmother, Yes, and going to to a 151 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 3: Lutheran church with some church clothes bought at the Sears 152 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 3: and Robot. 153 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: Absolutely. 154 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 3: And do you think do you think where you are today, 155 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 3: which we will get to where you are today, do 156 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 3: you think that that little bitty seed that wasn't getting 157 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 3: a whole lot of water or fertilizer, do you think 158 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 3: it mattered today? 159 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: You know, absolutely, one hundred percent. 160 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 2: I love to hear people's story when they say that 161 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 2: they had a praying grandmother, right, But my media took 162 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 2: it a lot further than that. When Medea had us 163 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 2: in front of those that dusty black piano and she's 164 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 2: got us singing those hymns, and she's teaching us songs 165 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 2: like Yes, Jesus Loves Me. 166 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: And amazing grace. 167 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 2: Right, Medea was so enceeased in us that took forty 168 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 2: some odd years later to come to a harvest. 169 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 3: She's in heaven now looking down on your on her legacy, 170 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 3: very proud, John. 171 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: Yes, I mean that's real, right, Oh. 172 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 3: Absolutely, all right, So let's talk about that a little 173 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 3: bit as well. I'm just doing the math What what 174 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 3: year was that have been? Probably what years the seventies 175 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 3: or this? 176 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:03,679 Speaker 1: Oh? 177 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I would say we started going, I mean as 178 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 2: far as back and I could remember. 179 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: I'm fifty six. 180 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 2: I was born in nineteen sixty six, so I remember, 181 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 2: you know, nineteen seventy four or seventy five. 182 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 3: And how old was she then? 183 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 2: Medea was Oh my goodness, she was well, she passed 184 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 2: away and I can't even do the maths. She passed 185 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 2: away in nineteen seventy eight and she was seventy two 186 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 2: years old, so some mathematicians, right, yes. 187 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 3: So she was probably the daughter of sharecroppers. 188 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, she was absolutely the daughter of slaves, Absolutely, absolutely, 189 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 2: one hundred percent. 190 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 3: Did you feel that. 191 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 2: No, Medea did an incredible job and so did my 192 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 2: mom right and protecting us and shielding. 193 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: Us from those things. That's amazing. 194 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 2: Not that they were hiding like the obvious racism, but 195 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 2: when we were around madea around my mother, we could 196 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 2: never refer to someone else. You couldn't refer to a 197 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 2: white person as a white boy or white girl, that 198 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 2: boy or girl as a boy or girl. 199 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 3: That was it. 200 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: That was it period in the report. 201 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 2: And I think that what was really fascinating about that 202 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 2: is because they grew up in Mississippi, right in the 203 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 2: Deep South during those times where absolutely, absolutely, one hundred 204 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 2: percent Yeah, I think that they did a great job 205 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 2: in doing that. That's something that I pass on to 206 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 2: my kids to this day. 207 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 3: Honestly, I fear that in our society that's uncommon. 208 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 2: Very much so, and I think that it becomes is 209 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 2: become people become desensitized to that. 210 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 3: Couldn't agree more. Right, So, John's scamping around at twelve 211 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 3: years old with some handcuffs on, falling after big brothers 212 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,719 Speaker 3: and the society that he sees and lives in, he 213 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 3: has listened to medea playing a seed. But that's not 214 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 3: his reality, because he lives in New York, right, and 215 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 3: he's in the streets and he goes to jail. And 216 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 3: there was a time you committed a lot of little 217 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 3: crimes here and there, but then there was a big one. 218 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 3: Tell me about the big one. 219 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: Oh it was. It was several big ones. 220 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 2: And if you're referring to my last little prison stint, 221 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 2: you know, I had committed a string of bank robberies, right, 222 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 2: how were you? I was thirty thirty six years old. 223 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 2: Thirty six, Yeah, committed a string. Maybe I've missed something 224 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 2: from twelve to thirty six. I'm doing a probable job 225 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 2: of stringing this together. 226 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: Okay, well let's back up. 227 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 3: Tell me what you did at twenty five, right, right, right? 228 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 2: So the twenty fives were, you know, a little tiny things. 229 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 2: But after my arrest at twelve years old, when I 230 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 2: was sixteen years old, was when I've caught my very 231 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 2: first felony conviction at sixteen. It was for an armed robbery, right, 232 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 2: so a strong arm, you know it was, it was 233 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:56,719 Speaker 2: with the weapon, but I robbed some drug dealersts right, 234 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 2: sixteen years old, growing up in New York and I 235 00:11:59,000 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 2: you know, I know. 236 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: Some of our say, well they probably deserved them. Yeah, 237 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 1: well no, I don't think that. Yeah, if you would. 238 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 2: Asked me that question, you know, to you know, twenty 239 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 2: five thirty years ago, I might as I have said, yeah, they. 240 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: Deserve But now they didn't deserve that. That was me, 241 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: you know. 242 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 2: But so it was at sixteen years old when I 243 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 2: caught my very first felanty conviction. I did not learn 244 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 2: my lesson from there, and then things just gotten getting 245 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 2: progressively worse. 246 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 3: We'll be right back now. Let's return to John's early 247 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 3: life of Crown. 248 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 2: Getting arrested for you know, menial things, everything from just 249 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 2: burglaries and things of that nature. And I tell people 250 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 2: I used to get arrested for burglaries, and I have 251 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 2: this thing because I earned my stripes, and I'm going 252 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 2: to prison. 253 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,319 Speaker 1: But I mean, I'm locked up for burglary. 254 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 2: And I used to say that they're not going to 255 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:56,559 Speaker 2: hold me for this, and you know I usually have 256 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 2: to say and that I'm greasy from the shoulders right, 257 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 2: and I'm going to go to court. They're going to 258 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 2: give me an R and I'm gonna take the first 259 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 2: deal that's coming. Is released on your own recognizance, right, 260 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 2: or you're gonna pay the bill, or or better yet, 261 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 2: the public defender is going to come at you with 262 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 2: some deal. 263 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: And I don't even care what the deal is. 264 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 2: If I plead guilty to it, does this mean I 265 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 2: go home Tony for sure? 266 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:20,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I get to go home and play on. 267 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 2: My next grame exactly right, So you know, and I 268 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 2: take those And it was a bunch of those that 269 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 2: had gotten stacked up. And then nineteen ninety eight or somewhere, 270 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 2: I had gotten arrested for another felony, and it was 271 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 2: for assault with the deadly weapon? 272 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 3: Was that also on another street person? 273 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 2: Oh? 274 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: Yes, that was another street person. 275 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 2: But then immediately in the introm of that, I had 276 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 2: a quarter of domestic violence, right, And the domestic violence 277 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 2: in that one. 278 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: Umbercent my fault. 279 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 2: You know, I had become addicted to everything known to man. 280 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 2: I'm completely out of my mind. I'm acting rational. And 281 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 2: that domestic violence was actually with my brother, right, we 282 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 2: lived in the same house. And because we lived in 283 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 2: the same house, it was it was under it was 284 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 2: considered domestic violence. 285 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 1: I have a question, Yes, sir, I. 286 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 3: Coached football and the Inner City for a large part 287 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 3: of my life. And I remember the first time I 288 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 3: ever heard one of my players say that their brother 289 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 3: had caught a charge, and it really really really shocked me. 290 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 3: And I am a fanatics person, and I thought, that's ridiculous. 291 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 3: You catch a cold, you earn a charge. And whenever 292 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 3: I would say I got a charge, it's almost like 293 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 3: because I in charge, I just caught it. And you know, 294 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 3: I was walking around and I bought a cold, I 295 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 3: caught a charge. I know that. 296 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: That's I'm gonna use that. I'm gonna write that down. 297 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: I'm gonna use that. 298 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 3: It's true. You don't catch a charge, go do something 299 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 3: to get one. Yes, But so you kept you kept 300 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 3: catching charges and kept getting the second chances. 301 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: I kept earning the charge. 302 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you very much, John, We have fixed that 303 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 3: on this show. You kept earning the charges and you 304 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 3: kept getting second chances. But you're you're the world you 305 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 3: were lived in. You lived in. That was the second chance. 306 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 3: Was just a second chance to go do something and 307 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 3: not get caught. 308 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: Right, Right, So. 309 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 3: You robbed some banks at thirty four. 310 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: Thirty six, thirty seven or something like that. 311 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 3: Yes, so you actually robbed some banks. Some guys got 312 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 3: together and so I was, I was I did his 313 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 3: solo Did you really? 314 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: I was this solo guy? 315 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 3: Yeah? 316 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: Right, and again work out for you. No, Well I 317 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: went to federal prison, tell me. 318 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 3: Right, so you get caught, yes, and what are you 319 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 3: facing in terms of time? 320 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 2: Well, because I'm in the federal system, right, I was 321 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: facing the possibility of spending twenty three years. 322 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 3: And at thirty six. 323 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: Yes, so you're sixty absolutely, so. 324 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 3: Your life yep, your life's over. 325 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: It's it's over. It's one of them sent over. 326 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 2: Because how the federal system works is they take a 327 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 2: look at your criminal history, which was and they can 328 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 2: go back to that sixteen YadA. 329 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 3: YadA, they can go back to juvenile even. 330 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: They can go back it's a it's a time frame, 331 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: I see. 332 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 2: Right, So if and I forget what it was like, 333 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 2: they can go back twenty five years and whatever that right, 334 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 2: and then based on that criminal history, they give you 335 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 2: points and it was you know, it. 336 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: Could have it could have had a hell of a resume, 337 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: absolutely right. Yeah, So I'd like the way you put that. 338 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 3: So you're looking at twenty years. 339 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: Possibily spending you know, twenty it worked out to like 340 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: twenty three years in prison and what happened. You know, 341 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: I'm mad and I'm angry. 342 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 3: What's you mad and angry anyway? 343 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: Oh no, but even more now. 344 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 2: But let me tell you the reason why, because the 345 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 2: realism reality is setting in right now. 346 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 3: But are you mad and angry at the people that 347 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 3: caught you? Are you mad and angry at circumstances? Are 348 00:16:58,400 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 3: you mad and angry at yourself? 349 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:04,120 Speaker 2: Man, I'm mad and angry with all of the above above. 350 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 2: I hate myself right because I find myself once again 351 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 2: in the tension center about the go before Judge, where 352 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 2: I'm doing this same thing all over again, where he's 353 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 2: going to determine how I'm going to spend the next 354 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 2: you know, twenty some odd years of my life. I'm 355 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 2: angry at myself. I'm angry that I didn't learn my lesson. 356 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 2: I'm angry at the people in the world around me 357 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 2: who you know, the drugs and all these different things 358 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 2: you name it. 359 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 1: I'm angry. 360 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 3: So even after all of that, you really do have 361 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 3: some self realization. 362 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 1: Still absolutely one of the percent. 363 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 3: Which means the people that you're helping they do too. Yes, 364 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 3: even the worst of the worst, except for some that 365 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 3: are just mentally sick. Yep, all right, but even some 366 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 3: of the worst of the worst offenders that have a 367 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 3: rap sheet a mile long when it's them and then 368 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 3: in a mirror, I know what they're looking at. Oh absolutely, 369 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 3: and you did. Absolutely, So you're staring twenty years in prison. 370 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 3: How you're not sixty and you're not in prison? 371 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: What happened? 372 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 2: So? Oh my goodness, I again being angry. I was 373 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 2: fighting people and fighting offices, and you've literally fighting, oh 374 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 2: literally fighting everybody, say, everybody in the world around me 375 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 2: fighting right because of anger and because of those institutional behaviors, 376 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 2: they put me in solitary confinement. And I found myself 377 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 2: in solitary confinement. I'm angry. I'm a food psych and 378 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 2: I'm not eating. 379 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 3: Let's talk about solitary consumer for the people. People hear that, 380 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 3: and it's overused in movies and it's become we've become 381 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 3: desensitized to it. But solitary confinement, some people may have 382 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 3: earned or deserved that. What that is, and my understanding 383 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 3: is an a by concrete box cell twenty three hours 384 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 3: with one hour of exercise, yes a day, yes, So 385 00:18:54,640 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 3: literally you're caged absolutely, and there's no socialisation with any 386 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 3: other human being. 387 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 2: Well, unless you're screaming down the hallway at the you 388 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 2: know the inmates next. 389 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: Door, which is hardly comforting. 390 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, So you are staring at walls for twenty 391 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:19,199 Speaker 3: three hours with no socialization, yep, staring at I'm going 392 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 3: to be here till I'm sixty yep. 393 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: Do you ever get suicidal? Of course I did. 394 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 2: I think that when you're facing the unknown, and those 395 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 2: are some of the thoughts that are in the back 396 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 2: of your mind. I remember the thing that was killing 397 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 2: me the most is that my son is now growing 398 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 2: up without his dad, just like I grew up without mine, 399 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 2: and I. 400 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: Just it just it just it was killing me. 401 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 3: So once again you're facing it. 402 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: What happened? How in the world are you here? What happened? 403 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 2: Man? I get to tell you the story about how 404 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 2: I'm in solitary confinement twenty three hour lockdown, one hour. 405 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 2: I'll never forget the day that a chaplain, one of 406 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 2: the prison chaplains, come by at the prison so and 407 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 2: he was speaking me through the door, having a conversation 408 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 2: and trying to. 409 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 3: Do it like a food It's just a. 410 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: Little food slot in there, and he's been down he Hey, brother. 411 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 3: How you doing. He was actually trying to get contact 412 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 3: with you. 413 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, And he was having his conversation and I 414 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 2: don't remember exactly what it was he was saying, but 415 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 2: I wasn't trying to hear it. 416 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: I'm mad, Yeah, so I you know. 417 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 2: I cursed the guy out and called him every name 418 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 2: except for the name that his mom gave him, told 419 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 2: him to get away from the door, and he before 420 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 2: he left the door, he dropped the Bible through the 421 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 2: little food flap and yeah, it was just aff forget 422 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 2: what it was, but it was a Bible, right, And 423 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 2: he dropped it through and the food flap, and he 424 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 2: said to me, hey, brother, Jesus loves you, and and 425 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 2: and close the food flap. And then he left the door, 426 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 2: and I left the Bible on the floor and just 427 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 2: left it alone. I'm still angry, and I don't have 428 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 2: to be. Like a week or so later, same chap 429 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 2: that comes by, he opens up the food like having 430 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 2: a conversation. I cursed him out before he left, he said, 431 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 2: Jesus loves you, and he drops this daily devotional through 432 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 2: the food flap. It was a daily devotional by Kenneth 433 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 2: Copeland and it was called the pursuit of his presence, 434 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 2: and I left it on the floor, did not read it, 435 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 2: whatever case it be. And then I don't know, a 436 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 2: couple of weeks later, out of one hundred complete boredom, 437 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 2: just bored, nothing else to do, solitary confinement, I picked 438 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 2: up that daily devotional and I turned to whatever page 439 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 2: I thought that it was. I don't even know what 440 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 2: day it is, and I opened it up and to 441 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 2: the date, and I started reading the story on there. 442 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 2: And as I'm reading the story and I'm like, oh 443 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 2: my gosh, this is right, it was, something leaped on 444 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 2: the inside of me. And then right in the top 445 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 2: right hand corner there was a passage of scripture, and 446 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 2: I immediately picked the Bible up and I started opening 447 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 2: up to that passage of scripture to where I'm reading it. 448 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,919 Speaker 2: As I'm reading it, oh my god, something has happened. 449 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 2: I got this flashback of forty some odd years ago 450 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 2: tim Medea in Missus. It be so in seeds that 451 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 2: it took almost forty years later to see the harvest 452 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 2: of what Morda was sewing. 453 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 3: And then when that happened, when the two weeks leading 454 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 3: up there, when you're kind of stepping over the Bible. Yeah, 455 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 3: and you're cussing the dude out. You're did you ever 456 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 3: once just flashpoint for a millisecond to Medea. 457 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: No, she was gone. Oh yeah, just it was gone. 458 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: It was it was buried. 459 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 3: Right when you opened the devotional and then opened the 460 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 3: descripture and the devotional. It all came full circle for you. 461 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, man, and and and again. I think it was 462 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 2: when I read that devotional that passes of Scripture, and 463 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 2: when I opened up the Bible, it was this old, 464 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 2: so familiararity of being inside the word. And I looked 465 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 2: up that patches of Scripture and I began to read. 466 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 2: And from that day forward, I couldn't. I put my 467 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 2: Bible down and I start reading the stories and all 468 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 2: those stories Medea was saying, there's a woman at the well, 469 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 2: there's a blind man named bottom Mayis. 470 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: I'm laying back on my. 471 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 2: Bunk and I'm just chewing on and all those things 472 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 2: that madea was talking about came to life. 473 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: And a minute that I did that. 474 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 2: The minute that I did that, something on the inside 475 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 2: of me change. I'm not as angry as I was before. 476 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:33,360 Speaker 2: I'm starting to have conversations with corrections officers It's something 477 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 2: about it was just different. There was this peace that 478 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 2: dropped on me that I can't even comprehend. 479 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: Now. 480 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,640 Speaker 2: I know that I'm still going to prison, I know 481 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 2: that I'm still going through this maximum security United States 482 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 2: Federal Benitentiary, but there's this peace about me that is 483 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 2: just just I can't even explain. 484 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 3: We'll be right back. 485 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: Now. 486 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 3: Let's return to John on being in prison and the 487 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 3: piece that kept growing in his heart while waiting for sentencing. 488 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 2: And then one night there was a there was a 489 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 2: young man that was leaving and he was on the 490 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 2: US Marshals coming to get him, and he was on 491 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 2: his way to federal prison, right and it's like three 492 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning. 493 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: They come and get him. And then I. 494 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 2: Hear him talking to one of the corrections office says, Hey, 495 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 2: I got my transition radio. Can can I give it 496 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 2: to Ponder because they won't let me take it on 497 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 2: the plane conn Air. They won't take let you take 498 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 2: it on a blame? Can I give this radio to Ponder? 499 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 2: And I didn't even hear his reply. I heard the 500 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 2: door close. I was like, oh well, and I turned 501 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 2: over went back to sleep. A couple of hours later 502 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 2: before that officer shift changed. He came over, opened up 503 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 2: the food flap and literally dropped this transitional radio on 504 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 2: the floor and it went into a couple of pieces. 505 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it just went in a couple of pieces, 506 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 2: and then you know, I'd get up for b I 507 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,719 Speaker 2: grab it and I turned this thing on, and I 508 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 2: couldn't find a radio station on here. And the only 509 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 2: radio station I found was this radio station ninety point five, 510 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 2: which is a Christian radio station. 511 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: What this is here in Las Vegas? 512 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 3: This is in Vegas. 513 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: This is here in Las Vegas. 514 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 2: I'm in the detention center here, Okay, so it's ninety 515 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 2: point five SOS Radio. They're my dear friends to this day, 516 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 2: no kidding, I promise you, because I came in that's 517 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 2: the only thing that that was the only thing that 518 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 2: came in that old radio. And it had one ear bud. 519 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 2: I don't even know what happened to the other year bud. 520 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 2: But I'm listening to it and so far and so on. 521 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,120 Speaker 2: And then as I'm listening to it, one night, across 522 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 2: the radio, there's the past that came on and he 523 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 2: started preaching the story about the Prodigal Sun. And I 524 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 2: set up on the side of the bed and it 525 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 2: was probably's son. And you know how the story is, 526 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 2: and come home and just run back to you. 527 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: And at the end of it. 528 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 2: That that pastor mad made an altar call instead of 529 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 2: this touches your heart and you know you want to 530 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 2: surrender your life to the Lord Jesus knocking on the 531 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 2: door of your heart. I stood up in that detention center, 532 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,959 Speaker 2: raised my hands up and I asked God to forgive 533 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,679 Speaker 2: me for all the stuff that I did over the 534 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 2: past thirty some ad years. 535 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: And oh he did. I'm sure you. Oh, I am 536 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: one hundred percent sure that he did. 537 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 3: I'd wish everybody listening could see your face. 538 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I am absolutely positively sure. 539 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: But then I asked him to be the lord. 540 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 2: Of my life, and I surrendered my life to God 541 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 2: in that moment. And when I got up off the floor, 542 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 2: I went in a one hundred and eighty degree turn 543 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 2: in another direction. 544 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 3: You're still looking at twenty three years, Joe. 545 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely, I am. 546 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 3: I mean that's great. Absolutely, it's redemptive. Right, you're still 547 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 3: looking at twenty three. 548 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 2: Let me let me let me tell you what happened. Right, 549 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 2: So I'm I'm walking into the courtroom. Right before I 550 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 2: go into the courtroom and I'm about to get this time, 551 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 2: I played, let's make a deal with God. In that 552 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 2: holding zell. 553 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 3: I am. 554 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,359 Speaker 2: I am Monty Hall right now playing let's make a deal. 555 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 1: And what I said to God was, listen. 556 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 2: I'm going up in his courtroom and I'm asking you 557 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 2: to go before me in his courtroom, and I'm asking 558 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 2: you to climb in the robe of that judge James Mann, 559 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 2: who's my best friend to this day. The judge the 560 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 2: Federal judges said, being to President, it's my best friend. 561 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 2: So I asked him to climb up into the robe, 562 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 2: and a judge move him out of the way. And 563 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 2: I said, God, whatever time I got coming to me, let. 564 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 1: It come from you. You be my judge. 565 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 2: But then I said to him to search the meditation 566 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,360 Speaker 2: of my heart. When I surrendered, right, it was one 567 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 2: you know, to you search the meditation of my heart. 568 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 2: And I said, examine what it was about to say 569 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 2: to you. I said to him that whatever time I 570 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 2: get right now, if it comes from you, whether it's 571 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 2: fifty years or whether it's whatever it is, right, I 572 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 2: am committing to you that I am going to spend 573 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 2: the rest of this life into the attorney serving you. 574 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 2: And I stepped up in that courtroom. 575 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: And unmistakably God showed up, and I didn't get what 576 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: it was that I deserved. 577 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 2: Evidence that my father showed up because my father said 578 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 2: his son that I might not get what I deserve, 579 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 2: moved that judge out of the way, and instead of 580 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 2: him giving me what I deserve, he gave me six 581 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 2: and a half years. I still got to go to 582 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 2: federal prison. I still got to go in maximum security 583 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 2: in the United States Federal Penitentiary. But I remember I 584 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 2: went back to the holding cell right and the US 585 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 2: marshals escorted me back down there, and they said, man, 586 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 2: they was hogging yether. 587 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: Man, I don't know what happened in there, And I said, 588 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: I do. 589 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 2: My God showed up, and as I'm laying there on 590 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 2: the floor and I'm thinking them, thank you, thank you, 591 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 2: thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, and God 592 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 2: says that you don't listen, my son, I honored what 593 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 2: you asked me to do. 594 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a problem. You said, let's make a deal. 595 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 3: Now you got work to do. 596 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 2: He says, don't ever forget the promise that you made 597 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 2: with me, that you are going to spend the rest 598 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 2: of this life serving you, and listen. I got up 599 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 2: off that floor and my life went in a one 600 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 2: hundred and eighty degree turn in the other direction, and 601 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 2: I never look back. 602 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 3: And just waiting to hear what John Ponder has done 603 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 3: once he never looked back. That concludes Part one of 604 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 3: our conversations with John, and I hope you'll listen to 605 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 3: Part two that's now available, and trust me, it just 606 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 3: keeps getting better. But if you don't, make sure you 607 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 3: join the Army of Normal Folks at normal Folks dot 608 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 3: us and sign up to become a member of the movement. Guys, 609 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 3: it only takes committee to doing one new thing this 610 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 3: year to help others, and there will be a ton 611 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 3: of awesome ideas on this podcast. When the folks are featuring. 612 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 3: Some of them may resonate with you deeply and others 613 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 3: may not at all, and that's okay, because we're all 614 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 3: called to do different things. By signing up, you'll also 615 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 3: receive a weekly email with short episodes summ reason in 616 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 3: case you happen to miss an episode or if you 617 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 3: prefer reading about our incredible guests together with each of 618 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 3: us doing what we can we literally can change the country, 619 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 3: and that change, my friends, starts with you.