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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to another episode of the All Thoughts podcast.

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Speaker 2: I'm Tracy Alloway.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Joe Wysenthal.

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Speaker 2: Joe, do you ever order stuff online?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Don't mean just like Amazon day to day stuff. I

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Speaker 2: mean like, do you go out looking for interesting things

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Speaker 2: to buy online?

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Speaker 3: Every run's a log at the edge. You know what

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Speaker 3: I bought yesterday?

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Speaker 2: What a guitar?

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Speaker 3: No, I thought I have bought guitars online too many?

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 3: A hat from the nineties from the Bureau of Reclamation

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Speaker 3: celebrating like the fiftieth anniversary of the building of the

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Speaker 3: Hoover Dam. Wait, and I'm going to win.

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Speaker 2: I want one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really it's a baseball cast. I'll show it

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Speaker 3: to you after this. It's really cool. I'm gonna wear

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Speaker 3: it at our next concert. I think it's really cool looking.

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Speaker 2: I'm very jealous.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's good ones.

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Speaker 4: All right.

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Speaker 2: Well, I buy stuff all the time. My husband does

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Speaker 2: a similar thing and buys lots of vintage not baseball hats,

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Speaker 2: but Rugby shirts.

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Speaker 3: Oh it's cool.

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Speaker 2: And the other day he ordered a Rugby shirt off

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Speaker 2: of eBay and it showed up a few weeks later,

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Speaker 2: and to both of our surprise, it had come from

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Speaker 2: Ukraine and specifically a place called Zapporosia.

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Speaker 3: Huh. And it was not like a Ukrainian jersey or

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Speaker 3: something like that. It just happened to be sent for

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Speaker 3: It happened to be sent from Ukraine. I can't remember

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Speaker 3: exactly which jersey it was, but I was kind of

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Speaker 3: surprised because it was in this like perfect little box.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 2: It took a while to get to the US, but

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Speaker 2: not an inordinate amount of time, and it piqued my

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Speaker 2: interest and it got me thinking, how in the world

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Speaker 2: is the Ukraine still shipping things in the middle of

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Speaker 2: a military conflict.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's pretty striking.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: We talked one time about palettes in the context of

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Speaker 3: the war and this idea that like logistics is the

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Speaker 3: key to keeping everything and going and good disciplined logistics,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. But the idea that you could quickly get

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Speaker 3: a pristine package from eBay to the US in the

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Speaker 3: middle of an ongoing conflict does extraordinary and raises questions

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Speaker 3: about like, how do you keep day to day operations

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Speaker 3: of a sort of crucial delivery infrastructure such as postal service,

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Speaker 3: whether shipping internationally or just shipping domestically, going under such

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Speaker 3: extreme conditions.

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Speaker 2: Right, and also, how does the role of the postal

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Speaker 2: service actually change during wartime? I imagine shipping rugbys to my

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Speaker 2: husband in the US is probably not an essential service

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Speaker 2: at the moment, but Ukraine is using the postal service

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Speaker 2: to send medicines and aids and cash and things like that.

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Speaker 2: So we should talk about this. I'd love to, and

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Speaker 2: I am very pleased to say we do, in fact

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Speaker 2: have the perfect guest. We're going to be speaking with

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Speaker 2: Igor Smolanski. He is the CEO of the Ukrainian National

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Speaker 2: postal operator uker Pushta, and before heading Ukraine's postal service,

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Speaker 2: he also worked at KPM and Boston Consulting Group. So

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Speaker 2: really a perfect all thoughts guest, a supply chain expert

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Speaker 2: with a side interest in finance. That's how I'm putting it.

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Speaker 2: Let's do it all right, Igor, Thank you so much

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Speaker 2: for coming on.

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Speaker 4: All thoughts, Thank you for inviting me.

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Speaker 2: So first of all, thank you for getting packages to me.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate it, my husband appreciates it. I have since

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Speaker 2: ordered things that came from Kiev as well, knowingly ordered

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Speaker 2: stuff from Kiev, and those also came in pristine condition.

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Speaker 2: Can you describe maybe just the challenges that the postal

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Speaker 2: service is facing at the moment. How much have things

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Speaker 2: changed now versus you know, pre twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 5: I mean, obviously had changed a lot, Like as an example,

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Speaker 5: we used to have five flights per week to New York,

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Speaker 5: which would allow us to quickly deliver parcels to the US.

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Speaker 5: And by the way, parcels to the US is about

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Speaker 5: fifty percent of our expert volumes.

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Speaker 4: Wow, over one point three.

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Speaker 5: Million Ukrainian SQUS assault on Amazon, eBay and Etsy. Huh,

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Speaker 5: So it's actually thousands of small businesses, jobs, people that

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Speaker 5: do things for the dogs.

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Speaker 4: Fashion Ukrainian fashion is very popular, things for the houses.

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Speaker 5: So and we understood that if you stopped delivering, these

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Speaker 5: people will lose their jobs.

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Speaker 4: And you can imagine during the war you cannot get

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Speaker 4: the jobs easily.

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Speaker 5: And so we had to face in one day that

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Speaker 5: there are normal flights, there are no flights from Ukraine.

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Speaker 5: At the same time, if you don't deliver on time

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Speaker 5: on eBay or Amazon or Etsy, you're eating as a

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Speaker 5: seller drops.

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Speaker 4: So which is.

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Speaker 5: Why we had to do what we could to make

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Speaker 5: sure things are delivered, and we moved to new logistical routes.

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Speaker 5: So during the war, hopefully not that many people know it,

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Speaker 5: but during the war you have a curfew which means

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Speaker 5: you cannot drive at night, and usually the mail is

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Speaker 5: delivered overnight.

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Speaker 4: So we recalled that. Twenty five years ago we moved

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Speaker 4: the mail via train.

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Speaker 5: So I met with a friend of mine who's ahead

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Speaker 5: of Ukrainian railways, and in five days.

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Speaker 4: We're zoom moving a mail by a railway.

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Speaker 5: So we're moving, for example, from Kiev to Leviev and

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Speaker 5: from there we take the truck and it goes to

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Speaker 5: Warsaw or Frankfort or London, and from there it flies

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Speaker 5: to New York and then it's delivered to you.

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Speaker 4: Right now.

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Speaker 5: We strive to deliver to any points in the US

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Speaker 5: within two weeks maximum, which means we have twenty four

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Speaker 5: hours turned around in Ukraine, about two or three days

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Speaker 5: on the road, and then it gets on the plane.

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Speaker 4: It's challenging, but we're making things happen.

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Speaker 5: So, for example, be a railway, we've already moved over

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Speaker 5: twenty million parcels.

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Speaker 3: Talk to us about the domestic need. I think you

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Speaker 3: mentioned it's not just a postal service, but a pharmacy

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Speaker 3: as well. Talk to us about the main internal priorities

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Speaker 3: of delivering the mail.

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Speaker 5: Sure, I mean Ukraine is the largest country in Europe,

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Speaker 5: and not it's only the largest. There are twenty seven

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Speaker 5: thousand cities and villages in Ukraine, and many of those

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Speaker 5: very small, up to one hundred people or five hundred people.

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Speaker 5: As you can imagine, during the war giving refugees, they

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Speaker 5: did not get any larger. What it means is in

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Speaker 5: those villages there are no pharmacists, there are no banks.

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Speaker 5: Actually banks only remain in four percent of cities in

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Speaker 5: villages in Ukraine, and you have to make sure these

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Speaker 5: people do geir stuff. Plus, when we talk about the

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Speaker 5: occupied areas, Russians destroyed the entire infrastructure, which means when

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Speaker 5: Ukraine the occupies these villages for about five to six weeks,

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Speaker 5: you don't have mobile connection, you don't have electricity. But

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Speaker 5: we have to work because you cannot leave people in

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Speaker 5: the vacuum. Not to mention, they would operate in Russian

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Speaker 5: rubles and you want to bring them back to Ukraine,

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Speaker 5: so you have to bring them Ukrainian currency and we

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Speaker 5: at the first company they see, we usually come two

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Speaker 5: three days.

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Speaker 4: After the occupation.

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Speaker 5: We just give time to the miners to demine the

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Speaker 5: fields so we cantively safely operate and very structured our

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Speaker 5: operations so we can work with or without power and electricity.

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Speaker 4: Thanks to starting from Milan masks and.

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Speaker 5: About fifteen hundred generators, we now have built a system

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Speaker 5: which can work whenever under any conditions. So we had

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Speaker 5: to change our processes to make sure we deliver pensions

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Speaker 5: in cash because obviously if there are no electricity of

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Speaker 5: ATM doesn't work, well, post terminal doesn't work. But people

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Speaker 5: still need to live. I mean they have little bazaars,

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Speaker 5: they work. So we basically create the ecosystem of life

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Speaker 5: around those small villages and we keep it going.

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Speaker 2: What's the labor situation like at the moment, I mean

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Speaker 2: you mentioned d mining. It sounds like this is a

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Speaker 2: risky job. Here in the US, we have a postal

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Speaker 2: worker shortage, even without having to worry about military conflict.

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Speaker 4: I mean it's a severe shortage. You can imagine.

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Speaker 5: First of all, we have to separate mail and feel

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Speaker 5: works right, and you can imagine there are many male

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Speaker 5: populations in the army. Second, we have lots of refugees

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Speaker 5: and so I mean we understand it's a big problem.

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Speaker 5: So for example, now to attract personnel, we have to

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Speaker 5: make sure that our offices are equipped for people with

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Speaker 5: disabilities so we can get them to work. We're trying

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Speaker 5: the best we can to implement automatic sorting lines.

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Speaker 4: Our goal for this ya.

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Speaker 5: I know it sounds weird during the war, but we

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Speaker 5: want to be one hundred percent digital even when there's

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Speaker 5: no digital meaning we build a system where in the

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Speaker 5: morning our mail carriers will download through startling and generators

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Speaker 5: the data worker during the day and then upload the

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Speaker 5: data at night, which means again we are not dependent

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Speaker 5: on the infrastructure. If rustions you know, shut down the

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Speaker 5: electricity or mobile or anything.

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Speaker 4: So we're doing.

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Speaker 5: Our best to increase efficiency to maintain as normal life

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Speaker 5: for people as possible.

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Speaker 4: Why, you can.

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Speaker 5: Imagine there is no rush of new stores opening in

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Speaker 5: Ukraine right now, there are no rush of new banks

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Speaker 5: and pharmacies. So the e commerce becomes this tool to

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Speaker 5: maintain a sense of normalcy even on the front lines.

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Speaker 5: So for example, we have lots of soldiers that would

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Speaker 5: order something on Amazon or on Alibaba, power bank or

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Speaker 5: the sacks or stuff for whatever they need and they'll delivered,

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Speaker 5: So you know, the e commerce becomes the tool to

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Speaker 5: keep you connected to the world even when the world

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Speaker 5: is in a difficult situation.

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Speaker 3: I'm actually curious you mentioned starlink. I don't know that

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Speaker 3: much about it, but I'm curious. Are there efficiency gains

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Speaker 3: or infrastructure gains that you've discovered with the use of

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Speaker 3: starlink satellite internet such that when there's a proper rebuilding

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Speaker 3: phase that there are things that will never have to

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Speaker 3: be rebuilt in their original form because of I guess

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Speaker 3: they say some sort of leap frogging or efficiency that

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Speaker 3: you've discovered out of this period of dress good question.

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Speaker 5: No, absolutely, I mean, you know, we don't want to

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Speaker 5: discuss Elon and his views, but the Starling has been

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Speaker 5: really a saber to us. You won't be able to

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Speaker 5: run internet cables in those areas, right, I mean, it

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Speaker 5: just will be millions of dollars. Probably it will run

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Speaker 5: through the field which you need to demine, and then

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Speaker 5: Russians can vum it again and it can.

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Speaker 4: Go off, et cetera.

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Speaker 5: So via Starling you're flexible enough, then you well, when

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Speaker 5: you combine Starling and the generator, when you combine the two,

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Speaker 5: you're basically no longer dependent on the central infrastructure and

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Speaker 5: you can provide civil height services right away, not you know,

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Speaker 5: not five months after the occupation, not three months after

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Speaker 5: Russian destroyed the buildings today like for example, it was

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Speaker 5: in our case, so very built it. They put up

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Speaker 5: the startling generator and they get back to work. So

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Speaker 5: you know, it's like a theory of broken windows. You

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Speaker 5: cannot have that. You should have the services, and the

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Speaker 5: starlink allows you to have that connection to the world.

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Speaker 2: So I take the point about starlink and also switching

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Speaker 2: from driving the mail to going by rail. But there

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Speaker 2: must be areas that you just cannot get mail to

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Speaker 2: at the moment, I mean the occupied areas for instance,

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Speaker 2: how widespread are those I guess pockets of non service?

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Speaker 5: I mean roughly twenty percent of Ukrainian territories occupied by Russians.

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Speaker 5: We try to be creative. If you talk strictly about

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Speaker 5: the law, there is a Geneva Convention, so if Russia

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Speaker 5: occupies certain area, they're responsible for wellbeing of people there. Obviously,

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Speaker 5: annoying Russia the world responsible is you know exaggeration. So

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Speaker 5: for example, in her song when her son was occupied

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Speaker 5: by Russians. We wanted to keep Ukrainian pensions going because

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Speaker 5: we wanted.

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Speaker 4: People feel the part of Ukraine.

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Speaker 5: So what we've done is, for example, we knew we

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Speaker 5: could not get cash to the occupied area. What we did,

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Speaker 5: for example, we agreed to small shops like in a

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Speaker 5: bakery shop or gas stations or barbershops that they would

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Speaker 5: give us cash and we would pay the bills in

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Speaker 5: Ukrainian territories and we would use that cash to pay

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Speaker 5: you know, grand grandma and grandpa the attensions, so they

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Speaker 5: would come back again to the store. And this way

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Speaker 5: we kept Grivna operation Ukrainian currency going even under Nursian occupation.

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Speaker 5: They did not understand how the grin uh you know,

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Speaker 5: got to the occupied area. But you know, when youre

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Speaker 5: creative enough even make things happen.

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Speaker 3: How do you protect cash? I mean, obviously in the

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Speaker 3: US and we have the instructions and there's a whole

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Speaker 3: separate infrastructure for cash management that's separate from the normal

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Speaker 3: postal service and their guards on the trucks and all

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Speaker 3: that has cash delivery always been an important role that

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Speaker 3: the postal service is played in Ukraine. And how do

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Speaker 3: you think about protecting those packages versus sort of more

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Speaker 3: normal mail.

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Speaker 4: No. Absolutely, they always been important.

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Speaker 5: Why because you know, in small villages, if you don't

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Speaker 5: have banking infrastructure, the cash is the king in you know,

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Speaker 5: in reality, because if for example, if you have a

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Speaker 5: bank card but no way to use it, you're not going.

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Speaker 4: To use it, so you're going to stay in cash.

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Speaker 5: We always had, I mean, we have lots of people

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Speaker 5: with guns to protect it. When we talk about the

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Speaker 5: areas close to the front lines, we get help from

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Speaker 5: the army that you know basically drives is our trucks

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Speaker 5: to make sure they're protected and make sure we delivered.

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Speaker 5: So we have the whole entire system of controls, of

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Speaker 5: monitoring of our armed guards to help.

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Speaker 4: Us deliver deliver cash.

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Speaker 5: I mean, that's the reason I've set a goal to

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Speaker 5: build one hundred percent digital infrastructure and every single village

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Speaker 5: so we can reduce the cash. So for example, right

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Speaker 5: now in the village, you cannot use the bank card.

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Speaker 5: We are now trying to get the banking license and

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Speaker 5: certain basically devices that we're building that people will be

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Speaker 5: able to use banking and e commerce infrastructure and every

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Speaker 5: single village. You know, basically it's like ecosystems. So right

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Speaker 5: now we pay pension in cash. You know, you get

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Speaker 5: your retirement payments in cash, and then you pay us

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Speaker 5: for utility bills, you pays for the food, you pays

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Speaker 5: for the medicine. So we can convert all of it

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Speaker 5: into a none cash format. Will it happen right away now?

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Speaker 5: But slowly once we build this digital infrastructure we can.

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Speaker 2: That reminds me a project like that, it sounds like

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Speaker 2: it costs money, So how is that being financed? And

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Speaker 2: then more broadly, how is uker post a finance Because

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Speaker 2: here in the US there is a perpetual, ongoing discussion

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Speaker 2: over the financial health of the US postal service and

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Speaker 2: whether it should be treated like a private enterprise or

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Speaker 2: a public service. I'm curious how it's done in Ukraine.

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Speaker 5: Well, I mean, coming from the US, you know, I'm

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Speaker 5: a big proponent of a non socialist way of working.

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Speaker 5: So the more independent you are from the government, the

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Speaker 5: most successful you are. So in Ukraine we are a

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Speaker 5: joint stock company where we are not financed by the government.

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Speaker 4: We're actually paying dividends to the government.

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Speaker 5: So anything we do, even during the war, we have

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Speaker 5: to finance ourselves.

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Speaker 4: One of the reasons.

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Speaker 5: We went to the Parliament and we had asked to

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Speaker 5: reduce regulation. So, for example, in Ukraine, only first class

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Speaker 5: mail is now regulated, So only the first class letters

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Speaker 5: are regulated by the government, meaning the tariffs and the newspapers.

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Speaker 5: Everything else is a market base, which means we set

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Speaker 5: the tariffs which we believe cover our cost plus.

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Speaker 4: Profit, and that's how we finance separation.

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Speaker 5: So our goal is to reduce number of state related

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Speaker 5: revenues to less than ten percent.

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Speaker 3: You know, I was reading something not in preparation for

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Speaker 3: this episode specifically, I was actually but I was reading

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Speaker 3: a little bit recently about US postal history and the

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Speaker 3: importance of the US post office and US industrial development.

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Speaker 3: And you know, a post office obviously has a postal service,

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Speaker 3: obviously has a distinct, unique perspective on the sort of

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Speaker 3: geography and territory of a population, and you probably have

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Speaker 3: some of the best visibility on where people are at

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Speaker 3: any given moment. And the name of every road, the

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Speaker 3: name of every address, how valuable is the information that

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Speaker 3: must be contained within your organization into the broader I

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Speaker 3: guess war effort right now of the government, even if

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Speaker 3: it is sort of formerly disconnected. The sort of ability

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Speaker 3: of the government to essentially have the insight that only

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Speaker 3: a postal service can have about where people are at

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Speaker 3: any given moment.

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Speaker 4: I mean in the more than the world.

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Speaker 5: Obviously, there are different ways of getting that information. Probably

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Speaker 5: the most reliable is the mobile operators, because vis signal

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Speaker 5: you can exactly say how many people are in the

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Speaker 5: area in any particular point, and even track.

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Speaker 4: Down how they move.

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Speaker 5: Obviously, we're probably the next best choice because we physically

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Speaker 5: see people, We know how many are there, we know

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Speaker 5: the age, so compared to the mobile operators, where they

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Speaker 5: just track the signal, we actually know that for example,

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Speaker 5: people here older, or people here on retirement, or here

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Speaker 5: it's a younger population, because you know, for example, you

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Speaker 5: have five hundred and hundred people in two villages, but

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Speaker 5: one can have all the people on retirement and the

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Speaker 5: other can have people of the younger age. For example

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Speaker 5: it's a farming village. So we have a better.

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Speaker 4: Understanding of the economy of a particular area of.

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Speaker 5: Particular or how fast people are coming back. We see it,

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Speaker 5: for example, in how they pay utility bills, because for example,

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Speaker 5: you can pay utility bills online even when you left

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Speaker 5: the create right you can be right now in New

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Speaker 5: York as a refugee and paying your electricity bill online,

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Speaker 5: which means if you just track down the payments, you

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Speaker 5: won't be able to see what the person is actually

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Speaker 5: in the village. Look in Harky, Finzo, Parisia or there

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Speaker 5: in New York. We know when we take the payments,

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Speaker 5: we know exactly how many people are there, because when

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Speaker 5: we bring utunity bills, we know they are received or not.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it does sound like you are working closely

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Speaker 2: with the Ukrainian military. So you mentioned the demining operations,

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Speaker 2: armed escorts in some cases, I imagine that wasn't the case

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Speaker 2: pre twenty twenty two. Could you maybe talk about how

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Speaker 2: you built up that relationship with the military, Like what

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Speaker 2: were those conversations actually like and how do you start

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Speaker 2: formalizing a structure of cooperation or information sharing.

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Speaker 5: I think that's where Ukraine is stronger than Russia. Russia

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Speaker 5: is all about vertical rules and all about you know,

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Speaker 5: rules written, there's one sar and then you go all

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Speaker 5: the way down. So the reason Ukraine was overcoming Russia

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Speaker 5: at the beginning because we are flexible. For example, our

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Speaker 5: million thy commanders have a right to make decisions. Russians don't.

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Speaker 5: I even had to negotiate with Russians. It's impossible. They

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Speaker 5: don't make any decisions on the ground. Every time they

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Speaker 5: have to check this mascot. So Uoker POSTA was working

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Speaker 5: from day one throughout the war. The only day we

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Speaker 5: did not work was February twenty fourth because I stopped

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Speaker 5: all the operations because I could not understand what I

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Speaker 5: can do to secure lives of people. Every single day

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Speaker 5: thereafter we continue to work, never stopped, and my day starts.

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Speaker 4: We designed the procedure where my day starts.

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Speaker 5: We check with the military where it's safe or not

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Speaker 5: safe today to deliver. We unfortunately lost a few lives

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Speaker 5: because we thought it was safe and the military thought

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Speaker 5: was saved. But Russians extended too fast the first days

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Speaker 5: of the war and we lost a.

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Speaker 4: Few people because they attacked.

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Speaker 5: So it's a standard procedure where we check with them

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Speaker 5: house the situation on the ground today, where do they

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Speaker 5: think it's okay to go and where we should for example,

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Speaker 5: se the operations. I just an hour ago I got

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Speaker 5: a note from the military in Highkief region that we

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Speaker 5: should not go near certain areas today because it will

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Speaker 5: be dangerous. And that's how we work in you know, chats,

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Speaker 5: in messengers, in communication where you have to quickly make

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Speaker 5: a decision. The most difficult part was, you know, it's

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Speaker 5: a war, so where do you delegate and where you

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Speaker 5: make decisions like in the army. So I had to

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Speaker 5: find the balance between decisions that I make and I

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Speaker 5: am physically able to make.

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Speaker 4: Because in terms of the US, we have like twenty.

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Speaker 5: Four states, so I had to make decisions each each

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Speaker 5: and every one of them, and where do they delegate?

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Speaker 5: So I build a system where I have kedo regions

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Speaker 5: and they allow to make certain decisions, certain decisions. They

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Speaker 5: have to agree with me in different messengers you know, signal, telegram,

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Speaker 5: et cetera, and we make it quickly and then we go.

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Speaker 5: So we're trying to be as informal as possible and

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Speaker 5: as efficient as possible.

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Speaker 3: Going back to some of the external aspects and how

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Speaker 3: we started this conversation and you mentioned that, did you

404
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Speaker 3: see fifty percent of Ukrainian exports are to the US,

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Speaker 3: And you know there's so much conversation about commodities exports,

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Speaker 3: particularly wheat and sover but in terms of actual value,

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Speaker 3: half of it is sort of various sales of goods

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Speaker 3: to the US.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's the postal experts so to speak, you know,

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Speaker 4: e commerce.

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Speaker 3: Opt pocastal experts.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's e commerce mainly.

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Speaker 5: You know, if you know it, it has to be

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Speaker 5: only handmade, right, so it cannot be mass produced. So

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Speaker 5: it's the handmade things. Not sure whether they you know,

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Speaker 5: the baseball sir was handmade.

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Speaker 4: But it wasn't.

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Speaker 2: But I am aware. On Etsy there's like amazing handmade

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Speaker 2: like fabrics and embroidery that come from Ukraine. Dog clothes.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying I'm buying dog clothes for my core hey,

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Speaker 2: but I know they are there.

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Speaker 3: But I also noticed that on your website you have

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Speaker 3: there's a whole section right on the front page start

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Speaker 3: a successful International Business, and it has guides and videos

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Speaker 3: like how to set up a business and sell on Etsy,

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Speaker 3: how do you set up a business and new Shopify?

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Speaker 3: So right there, Like, have these long been things or

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Speaker 3: is this something that you helped accelerate and implement or

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Speaker 3: has this been a long part of one of the

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Speaker 3: services that the post office focuses on.

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Speaker 4: No, I mean it's actually the project we're very proud of.

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Speaker 5: We actually got award as the best sustainable postal operator

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Speaker 5: in the world because that's how we get people. Imagine

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Speaker 5: people in the smallest village sometimes they do wedding dresses

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Speaker 5: for five thousand dollars and sell it in uk or

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Speaker 5: in the US.

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Speaker 4: You can imagine it's a huge part of the local economy.

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Speaker 5: Or right now, many of our military guys in the trenches,

439
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Speaker 5: they dream after the victory to set up their own business.

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Speaker 5: So they're watching those videos in the trenches and think

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Speaker 5: about the business that they will open once day back.

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Speaker 5: So you know, it's a huge part of the success,

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Speaker 5: and we plan to extend this project, especially for example,

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Speaker 5: for people with disabilities. You can imagine Ukraine losing a

445
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 5: lot of people, you know, people losing limbs in the war.

446
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 5: But they can work from home, they can set up shop,

447
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,120
Speaker 5: they can do this embroidery at home. We can send

448
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 5: the courier to pick it up and they sell it

449
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 5: on Edsy.

450
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:16,160
Speaker 4: So they don't.

451
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 5: Feel like they have to get social subjects. They feel

452
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,120
Speaker 5: like a part of the society. So you know, it's

453
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 5: very important. That's why we understand how important it is

454
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 5: for us to deliver quickly the kind of hope. No, No,

455
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 5: it's been two years. As I'm trying to launch a

456
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 5: postal training to Europe. So for example, I can get

457
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 5: down the time to deliver to the s to seven days,

458
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 5: so I'll get to for example, overnight from Kiev to Warsaw,

459
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 5: and from Warsaw the plane will fly to New York

460
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 5: and you will have the shorts not on floteen days,

461
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 5: but in seven. That's a sort of our goal and

462
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 5: we're trying to strive it. But it's been a part

463
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 5: of our work for a long time. Some of it

464
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 5: has been helped by the war. Because you probably heard

465
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 5: about how famous stems I was about.

466
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 2: As speaking of new businesses, you also sort of have

467
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 2: one in the form of these new edition stamps.

468
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 4: Yep.

469
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 5: And we actually got the price from eBay as the

470
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 5: rising Star because we maintained delivery standards global worldwide.

471
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 4: We sold millions of stamps.

472
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 5: We had the joke I met with the Postmaster General

473
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 5: in the US and he joked that we probably the

474
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 5: only postal service that makes money on the stems.

475
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 2: We talked to us about the design of the stamps.

476
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 2: Describe maybe the most famous one.

477
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 5: Well, the most famous obviously is Russian worship.

478
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 4: Go f yourself.

479
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 5: You know, we're breaking any possible rule there is in philately,

480
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 5: so we're doing the stamps. Usually the postal service has

481
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 5: like two year plan to issue stamps and we don't.

482
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 4: We just issued them. So for example, when Ukraine bummed the.

483
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 5: Russian crimea bridge, we issued stamp in one hour, which

484
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 5: tend Russian TV to believe we knew about the operation.

485
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 4: And prepare the stamp in advance. I mean, I've just

486
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 4: lit it.

487
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 5: And there are some other stems like the Russian Moscow ships,

488
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 5: so we issued stamp and then.

489
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 4: The ships was three days after, you know, but it helps.

490
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, we precede some of the events. Let's put it

491
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 5: this way. Screaming a bridge. We have a few more surprises,

492
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 5: we have sixteens and other things. But you know, it's

493
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 5: a huge moral boost and it's a good part of

494
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,239
Speaker 5: the revenue for us. It's an image of Ukraine. We

495
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 5: had the only postal service that has our own stores

496
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 5: on Amazon and eBay, so you can check there's only one.

497
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:29,479
Speaker 5: It's just for our postal operator, and we have global sales.

498
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 5: People come from all over the world to our stores

499
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 5: buying the stamps and we ship them and given the

500
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 5: ratings we have, we deliver it within very short periods

501
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 5: of time.

502
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 2: Joe, I have to say, I think the Russian warship

503
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 2: Go f Yourself stamped. That must be the only stamp

504
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 2: in the world that has a depiction of a middle finger.

505
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 2: I think I could be wrong, Yeah, but I would guess.

506
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 5: Well, we made it to the Daily Show, so you

507
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 5: know it probably was the only stamp that made that.

508
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 3: Let's talk more about the mail by rail, and you

509
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 3: mentioned in the beginning that you know, there used to

510
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 3: be several flights direct to New York each week and

511
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 3: owother or none, and so you have to go by rail.

512
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 3: What happens at the border? What are the challenges? Just

513
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 3: sort of the nuts and bolts, so to speak, of

514
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 3: establishing that link between Ukraine and Frankfurt.

515
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 5: I mean, obviously the main challenge is that, you know,

516
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 5: the border was made for the trucks, and the huge

517
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 5: part of the Ukrainian experts and imports was done by

518
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 5: the sea, because Ukraine is the sea country, right we

519
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 5: have a black Sea was done by air and once

520
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 5: that was canceled by the war, imagined the entire flow,

521
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 5: including the military aid and military supplies had.

522
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 4: To go through the small window of few roads.

523
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 5: To Europe, which by the way, obviously everyone was concerned

524
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 5: that Russians will bump and the railway, so you left

525
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 5: to two choices and you had to squeeze the entire

526
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 5: volume through those few roads to Poland, to Romania, to Slovakia, etc.

527
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 5: So that's the challenge remains, it will remain going forward.

528
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 5: I do hope that we win soon and imagine during

529
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 5: the reconstruction the flow will increase several times, but the

530
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 5: roads won't, which is why we're trying to do the

531
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 5: best the best we can to move certain clothes to

532
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 5: railway because railway is more efficient, you don't have to

533
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 5: stay online in the border, and you can basically run

534
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 5: on schedule. So the reason we've been so successful because

535
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 5: we connected our postal cars not to the carget trains,

536
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 5: but to passenger trains, and passenger trains you can imagine

537
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 5: run on schedule, so it allows us strict predictability as

538
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 5: to when your parcels will arrive when we have to

539
00:27:59,200 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 5: unload it.

540
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 2: And really, what's been the most creative solution that you've

541
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 2: deployed during this time period, Like is there a particular

542
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,959
Speaker 2: workaround or decision that you're especially proud of.

543
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 4: The two things.

544
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 5: One is the system that we built with the Startlings

545
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 5: and the generators, and the second is the combined logistical

546
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,439
Speaker 5: chain train car plane to make sure that we delivered

547
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 5: across the globe. I think that was the key. We

548
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 5: use it at the beginning of the war to bring

549
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 5: back to Ukraine humanitarian needs for example, which chartered the

550
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 5: plane during the first week of the war, which chartered

551
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 5: our own plane in Poland, and we brought all those

552
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 5: parcels to New York and obviously we did not have

553
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 5: that big of a flow on the way back, so

554
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 5: well loaded that plane with humanitarian systems, with medical supplies,

555
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 5: some of the military supplies. So we use you know,

556
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 5: we don't fly empty and we use the most efficient

557
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 5: way of transporting it.

558
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 3: You mentioned that other than first class mail and newspapers,

559
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 3: your pricing is totally deregulated. Can you talk about some

560
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 3: of the decisions that you've made around pricing. Are there

561
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 3: certain types of goods? Is it sizes? Like how did

562
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 3: you are there? There must be low priority things that

563
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 3: you sort of like want to discourage people from using

564
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 3: your capacity. Talk to us about like some of the

565
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,239
Speaker 3: decisions you've made around pricing and how the war has

566
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 3: changed those.

567
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 4: There are a few things.

568
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 5: Ukraine is a very competitive market, so we have analog

569
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 5: of FedEx and UPS which are dominating the market. So

570
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 5: that was our argument to the regulators. Why want to

571
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 5: regulate us when the market will.

572
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 4: Take care of ourselves. That's the first thing.

573
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 5: Second, what we learn is, you know, if at the

574
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 5: beginning of the war, people were thankful for us that

575
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 5: we in generally work, right, because when I talk to

576
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 5: my colleagues and other postal services, they amaze that we

577
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 5: in generally work and that will probably last for.

578
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 4: About a few months. But then people move from okay,

579
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 4: thank you for working.

580
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 5: Now I want my next day delivery, and you know,

581
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 5: the expectations grow, which means we have to deliver. We

582
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 5: have two sets of tariff, which is next day and

583
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 5: two five days.

584
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 4: To make sure we distinguish between between.

585
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 5: Cheap goods and I guess more immediate needs which people

586
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 5: need fast. So that's our sort of value proposition that

587
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 5: you can choose. Our competitors have only one tariff, so

588
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 5: it's just expressed as the next day. So imagine how

589
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 5: competitive the market is even during the war we're striving

590
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 5: to achieve next day delivery, even the country as large.

591
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 4: As in Ukraine.

592
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 5: So for example, for me to deliver from Ushgrad, which

593
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 5: is close to Poland and Hungary, to Pakrofsk, which is

594
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 5: close to the front line, we're using the truck to

595
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 5: take it to Vive, loaded on the train, the train

596
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 5: brings it.

597
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 4: To NeuPro At ten am.

598
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 5: We sorted for two hours, we get it on truck

599
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 5: and the three pm it's in Pa Crops, which is

600
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 5: the other side of Ukraine.

601
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 4: I think a few thousand kilometers.

602
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 5: But again that's what people expect and that's what we

603
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 5: need to delive.

604
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 4: We just try to price it. I mean, in general

605
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 4: it's very cheap.

606
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 5: So for example, it's like one dollar next day delivery

607
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 5: for up to one killer.

608
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 2: Do you get any pushback from people in terms of

609
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 2: price increases or is it generally accepted that these are

610
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 2: exceptional times and so the price is sort of justified.

611
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 5: You know, it depends on the price. So for example,

612
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 5: when person pays five hundred dollars for a computer, do

613
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 5: they really care whether delivery is three dollars to five dollars.

614
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 4: No, they don't. They want it to be delivered next day.

615
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 5: If it's a mom that you know, moms exchanging clothes

616
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 5: for the kids, they're okay to wait. Or if it's

617
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 5: a medicine, So if it's a medicine that you need

618
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 5: the next day because you're really seek we need to

619
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 5: deliver next day.

620
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 4: If you have some kind.

621
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 5: Of chronicle illness and you get your medicine every month

622
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 5: the same day, we can plant it in advance, right,

623
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 5: so we can. The reason we have to be flexible

624
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 5: is we offer the client to choice. You can pick

625
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 5: cheap or you can pick more expensive, depending what fits

626
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 5: you need. But people do want quality, know e commerce,

627
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 5: it's an immediate gratification, So I ordered today, I want

628
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 5: to get it tomorrow, even if it's a war.

629
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 3: You know, obviously we're having this conversation about the extraordinary

630
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,959
Speaker 3: challenges of delivering the mail during a war. When the

631
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 3: war started, the entire world was still in the throes

632
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 3: of the broader I guess supply chain crisis Spring twenty

633
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 3: twenty two. Who's still all kinds of parts for every

634
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 3: type of thing we're missing? And palette scarcity, container scarcity

635
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 3: due to COVID and everything. How did that affect you

636
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 3: and what have you seen on that front since then

637
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 3: in terms of parts that you need, equipment that you

638
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 3: need and so for just to run your operation.

639
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 5: You know, I thought we prepared during COVID and we adopted,

640
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 5: but then when the war starts, the situation becomes even worse.

641
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 5: For example, we've been buying trucks from Belarus. Now Belarus

642
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 5: is an enemy. Yeah, how do you get the parts

643
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 5: for the trucks? How do you get the parts for

644
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 5: Russian drugs? We're now running a procurement for the new trucks.

645
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 5: The issues do you let China company participate or you don't?

646
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 5: Do you let them participate if they stay in Russia?

647
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 5: Do you deal with companies that stay in Russia? So

648
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 5: you know, you have much wider range of issues that

649
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 5: we need.

650
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 4: To handle and make a strategic decision on.

651
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 5: I mean, we made a strategic decision that we have

652
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 5: to get rid of Russian made vehicles as soon as possible.

653
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 5: We made a strategic decision that is probably not a

654
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 5: good idea to have trucks from China because if tomorrow

655
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 5: they become, you know, big friends with Russia, we don't

656
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 5: We're not going to get parts and we're just going

657
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 5: to be stuck, so you have to think a few

658
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 5: steps in advance. We're buying some other equipment from China,

659
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 5: which we think strategically will not be endanger our operations,

660
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 5: but we'll learned that in the modern world, as you

661
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 5: correctly pointed out, you know, would be various of things

662
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 5: affecting the supply chain.

663
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 2: Igor Smeliansky of ukar Posha, thank you so much for

664
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 2: coming on odd Lots. That was such a fascinating conversation.

665
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 4: Thank you very much for having me.

666
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 2: So Joe. I found that an absolutely fascinating conversation. Not

667
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 2: to get really philosophical, but the theme that kind of

668
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 2: jumped out at me is it's sort of like simultaneously

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00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 2: globalized and also deglobalized. There's nothing more deglobalized than war

670
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 2: and a country invading another country, it feels like. But

671
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 2: at the same time, hearing Igor describe the importance of

672
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 2: e commerce to the Ukrainian economy, the idea that there

673
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 2: are soldiers in the trenches who are coming up with

674
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 2: business plans for a small business on Etsy is it

675
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 2: kind of blows your mind in some ways. And there's

676
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 2: such a tension there between the war zone and then

677
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 2: that like globalize. You order something online, you expected to

678
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 2: get it the next day, kind of aspect of the economy.

679
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, thinking about villagers in Ukraine going online and figuring

680
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 3: out how to set up a at sea shop or

681
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 3: an Amazon shop or your shopify makes the world feel

682
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 3: very small and feel very familiar, And so I thought

683
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 3: that was striking. Also the idea of you know, starlink

684
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 3: and how crucial that's been and that you can sort

685
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 3: of essentially, as you put it, seemingly in a day

686
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 3: or to recreate destroyed infrastructure with a combination of starlink

687
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 3: and generators, and you have to imagine that like some

688
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 3: of that will become the norm. I don't like the generator,

689
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 3: you know, I think.

690
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 2: They probably not the generator, right, But like the.

691
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 3: Idea of like, well, will you really rebuild an entire

692
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 3: wired infrastructure if satellite internet works? Well, like that's like

693
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 3: really sort of interesting. You could see how that could

694
00:35:58,040 --> 00:35:59,919
Speaker 3: like reshape society or reshape.

695
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: Infrastruct Yeah, I'm glad you asked that leapfrogging question because

696
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 2: it sounds like that's kind of what's happening or what

697
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 2: could happen once reconstruction actually begins. But overall, super interesting conversation.

698
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 2: The switch from driving the mail to rail was really interesting.

699
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 2: Just the idea of I guess post office workers who

700
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 2: are having to think about stuff like minds on a

701
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 2: day to day basis and communicate with the military about

702
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 2: where is safe to go pretty interesting times. Yes, and

703
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 2: I should just mention Joe if anyone is interested in

704
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 2: learning more about Uker Poshta and how Ukraine is delivering

705
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 2: the mail at the moment. There was a really brilliant

706
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 2: profile of Igor by our Bloomberg colleague Todd Shields. I

707
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 2: think it came out in twenty twenty two. You should

708
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 2: definitely go check that out. And a big thank you

709
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 2: to Todd as well for helping us arrange this interview

710
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 2: and putting us in touch with Igor in the first place.

711
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 2: Shall we leave it there, Let's leave it there. Okay.

712
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 2: This has been another episode of the Odd Thoughts podcast.

713
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,760
Speaker 2: I'm Tracy. You can follow me at Tracy Alloway.

714
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 3: And I'm Jill Wisenthal. You can follow me at the Stalwart.

715
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 3: Follow our guest Igor smel Yansky. He's at smel Yansky Igor.

716
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,760
Speaker 3: Follow our producers Carmen Rodriguez at Carmen Arman Dashel Bennett

717
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 3: at Dashbot and kel Brooks at Kelbrooks. Thank you to

718
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 3: our producer, Moses Ondam. Form more Oddlogscontent, go to Bloomberg

719
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 3: dot com slash odd Lots, where we have transcripts, blog

720
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 3: and a newsletter and you can chat with fellow listeners

721
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Speaker 3: odd Lots And.

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724
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Speaker 2: a positive review on your favorite podcast platform. And remember,

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00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,759
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729
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Speaker 4: In