Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,
Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of
Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.
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Speaker 2: let's get to the show.
Speaker 1: Everything.
Speaker 2: A bit of an interesting incident causing a lot of
Speaker 2: controversy here in Capitol Oil.
Speaker 3: Let's go and put this up there on the screen.
Speaker 2: So Congressman Van Orden, a former US Navy seal from Wisconsin,
Speaker 2: is being rebuked by the Senate Chamber because he yelled
Speaker 2: at some high school age pages.
Speaker 3: So I guess let's first explain the situation. These Senate pages.
Speaker 2: Were playing on the floor of the Capitol Rotunda on
Speaker 2: Wednesday night because the Senate had late votes. They apparently
Speaker 2: were laying on that floor and they had their phones
Speaker 2: and were taking pictures of the dome, which from the
Speaker 2: direct center, which actually is a very beautiful picture if
Speaker 2: you've ever seen it. I encourage anybody if you're ever
Speaker 2: on a tour, try and go to the Dead Center
Speaker 2: and actually look up, because it is pretty cool. It's
Speaker 2: very beautiful artwork, some famous stuff going on there. But
Speaker 2: eventually what happened is that Van Orden apparently came in
Speaker 2: there and called these kids quote little shits. He's like,
Speaker 2: what do you think you're doing here? Yelled at them, like,
Speaker 2: got in their face, told them to leave. He said,
Speaker 2: I don't give a shit who you are. I'm a congressman.
Speaker 2: Get the fuck out of here. So vicious tirade against
Speaker 2: the pages. And now it's chamber on chamber action. He's
Speaker 2: been censored officially by the Senate, so McConnell and Schumer
Speaker 2: calling him out for doing this. There's also some speculation
Speaker 2: as to whether Van Orden himself was drunk when any
Speaker 2: of this happened. Let's go and put this one up
Speaker 2: there on the screen. There's actually a photo there. So
Speaker 2: Van Orden claims the Capitol rotunda served as a field
Speaker 2: hospital where countless Union soldiers died fighting to Freeman in
Speaker 2: the Civil War. I've long sent our nation's capital as
Speaker 2: a symbol of sacrificer service to my women have been
Speaker 2: treated for his country.
Speaker 3: She never be treated like a fratthouse.
Speaker 2: Common room, threatening a congressman with bad press to excuse
Speaker 2: poor behavior as a reminder of everything that's wrong with Washington.
Speaker 3: Luckily, bad press has never bothered me.
Speaker 2: And if it's the price I paid a stand up
Speaker 2: for what's right, then so be itgged God. Also, we
Speaker 2: can see the photo here. Let's put the photo up
Speaker 2: there please on the screen. This actually shows you Congressman
Speaker 2: Van Ordon's office, beer bottles and alcohol on the table.
Speaker 3: Van Orden.
Speaker 2: To be fair to him, he says that he does
Speaker 2: beer and cheese tours out of his office for constituents.
Speaker 3: That's why the alcohol was there.
Speaker 2: It's not indicative of him being drunk during the incident,
Speaker 2: So your thoughts crystal well.
Speaker 1: They also say that his staff were heard partying loudly
Speaker 1: before he cursed it. The fifteen year old Senate pages
Speaker 1: who were doing absolutely nothing wrong taking pictures actually showing
Speaker 1: I mean really showing reverence to the Capitol building that
Speaker 1: they wanted to you know, capture, and remember what I mean.
Speaker 4: This has come on. I always think that.
Speaker 1: The way you treat people who are lower on the
Speaker 1: totem pole than you in terms of social hierarchies is
Speaker 1: the most revealing aspect of a human being we see
Speaker 1: in this business all the time. How do hosts treat
Speaker 1: their makeup artists, how do they treat the crew? What
Speaker 1: do they act like when the cameras are not on?
Speaker 1: And so to be screaming at these fifteen year old
Speaker 1: pages who were there, By the way, I don't know
Speaker 1: if people know, like what the page program is. When
Speaker 1: can you get selected by your congressman? Most congress people
Speaker 1: run like some sort of a contest for civic minded
Speaker 1: youngsters to compete to be able to get this honor
Speaker 1: of coming here and spending I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: a semester a whole year.
Speaker 4: Doing all the like grunt work running around the capital, yeah,
Speaker 4: and that sort of stuff all around.
Speaker 1: And this has been going on for many, many decades,
Speaker 1: as program spending existence for a long time. And so
Speaker 1: to to treat these kids this way, I mean, come on,
Speaker 1: if you really have a problem with their behavior, you
Speaker 1: could explain to them why this is. You know, this
Speaker 1: is important, an important place, and here's the history, and
Speaker 1: here's why you should be, you know, laying on the
Speaker 1: floor taking a photo. Athough again, I personally think there
Speaker 1: was absolutely nothing wrong with it, so much worse behavior
Speaker 1: on his part than on the part of.
Speaker 2: Well, apparently that there's a tradition where they get to
Speaker 2: rest inside the Capitol whenever there's late night votes going on.
Speaker 2: So I think that he misunderstood the situation and he
Speaker 2: wasn't these a newer congressman.
Speaker 3: So I think that's part of the reason why. H Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think.
Speaker 2: You should be treating kids this way, and you certainly
Speaker 2: shouldn't be yelling at them, as you said, if you
Speaker 2: really thought they were doing wrong, he could have explained
Speaker 2: maybe they didn't know that people died on the floor
Speaker 2: or whatever.
Speaker 3: Also, I still don't think that they were doing it.
Speaker 2: They weren't anything particularly out of order. And so yeah,
Speaker 2: now this is like a mini scandal on Capitol Hill.
Speaker 2: Some people are trolling him a congressman. Actually, Chip Roy
Speaker 2: did the actual pose laying on the ground and taking
Speaker 2: the photo, really tagged him in it. Yeah, so he's
Speaker 2: his own colleague Cruise. Yeah, people are really making fun
Speaker 2: of this guy. So well, I mean, him and his
Speaker 2: staff are refusing to back down. They're like, listen, he
Speaker 2: did nothing wrong.
Speaker 3: He did the right thing.
Speaker 4: That's the other thing.
Speaker 1: That irritates me about it is you know what if
Speaker 1: he put out a statement that was like, you know what, guys,
Speaker 1: I was tired, it was late, I popped off.
Speaker 4: I shouldn't have done it. I'm sorry. Okay, that's one
Speaker 4: one thing, right, But.
Speaker 1: He doubles down on this like he's standing up for
Speaker 1: the honor of the nation by cursing out a group
Speaker 1: of kids. Like luckily, bad press is never bothered me.
Speaker 1: If it's the price I pay to stand up for
Speaker 1: what's right, then so be it.
Speaker 4: Like, come on, dude, take take the L. Take the L.
Speaker 1: And apparently also he had previously cursed out some like
Speaker 1: library page, another kid I saw over some like book
Speaker 1: in the library that he didn't like or whatever, back
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin.
Speaker 4: So this is this is a pattern for him.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure he's all family values, et cetera, et cetera,
Speaker 1: if you were to ask him his political views.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, good for him.
Speaker 2: We'll see you guys later. A really sad new economic development.
Speaker 2: That's just a sign of the times. Let's put this
Speaker 2: up there on the screen. Local malls, once the hallmark
Speaker 2: of a community, are now stuck in quote a death
Speaker 2: spiral and are plunging in value in terms of commercial
Speaker 2: real estate. They point to Crystal that quote, lower end
Speaker 2: malls are now worth at least fifty percent and in
Speaker 2: some cases more than seventy percent less than they were
Speaker 2: when mall valuations peaked in late twenty and sixteen the overall.
Speaker 2: They point to several malls, for example, that have been
Speaker 2: sold at foreclosure auction. The best example was one which
Speaker 2: was appraised in twenty twelve for one hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: three million dollars sold at foreclosure for just nine point
Speaker 2: five wow. Quote, more than fourteen billion dollars of loans
Speaker 2: are backed by properties come due just in the next
Speaker 2: twelve months. Mortgage rates are actually up, so refinancing that
Speaker 2: debt is going to be dramatically more challenging and expensive.
Speaker 2: At the very same time that overall department store closures
Speaker 2: are actually much higher this year than the previous two years,
Speaker 2: and we're beginning to normalize over the baseline. I mean, really,
Speaker 2: what's interesting to me is looking at department store closures
Speaker 2: in malls. It peaked in twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, and
Speaker 2: then anything that did survive appears to be dying now
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three, so it was already basically on
Speaker 2: its last legs and now somebody's coming through and like
Speaker 2: shooting the rests.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's very sad.
Speaker 2: I mean, like, for example, they point to Macy's, JC,
Speaker 2: Penny and Sears closed quote eight hundred and seventy five
Speaker 2: stores just between twenty nineteen and twenty twenty, and that
Speaker 2: quote COVID and more has quote accelerated the death spiral
Speaker 2: of the industry because the department stores were the anchors
Speaker 2: that a lot of the smaller businesses could be around.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I may I'm just personally nostalgic for
Speaker 2: this because it was like a huge thing to do
Speaker 2: in the pre Internet era, go to.
Speaker 4: Go to the mall.
Speaker 2: I mean it just like, isn't there like a little
Speaker 2: strang your Things season around the mall?
Speaker 4: I mean it's just where there's a whole like mall
Speaker 4: cop series.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Paul Blart Mall cop I mean, many of
Speaker 2: these like connected culturally because it was genuinely a shared experience.
Speaker 2: It was a huge hub actually for local commerce, and
Speaker 2: it basically just looks dead after the Internet and especially
Speaker 2: after COVID.
Speaker 3: So it's really sad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, these things were already suffering in the
Speaker 1: online retail era, and then Covid hits and that was
Speaker 1: like a death noel for a lot of them. And
Speaker 1: I was a little bit helpful because I do like
Speaker 1: the mall. I still go to the mall. I still
Speaker 1: am very attached to my local mall, which is the
Speaker 1: mall that I went to as a child and as
Speaker 1: a teenager shout out to these Pennsylvania town Center and
Speaker 1: it felt like at my local mall, actually there's been
Speaker 1: pretty good foot traffic. Like when I go in there,
Speaker 1: it's not dead. I will say. The department stores are
Speaker 1: very sad. You go in there and there's like no
Speaker 1: salespeople and the all the merchandise is super old and
Speaker 1: it's pretty sparse, Like the department store situation is kind
Speaker 1: of sad. But overall, my little anecdotal assessment being at
Speaker 1: my own mall was that like, oh, maybe post pandemic,
Speaker 1: it's actually made people appreciate being in person more. Maybe
Speaker 1: there's been like a little mini resurgence in the mall world.
Speaker 4: No, not so much so.
Speaker 1: You had initially right downtowns that got destroyed by the mall,
Speaker 1: by suburban shopping, and now you have the suburban shopping
Speaker 1: getting destroyed by online, and some malls that I've seen,
Speaker 1: even the big department stores are now basically like Amazon Warehouse.
Speaker 2: Right, That's the thing is effectively, what has happened is
Speaker 2: that there's been incredible a months of concentrations. So instead
Speaker 2: of the dispersed eight hundred stores, there's now just super malls.
Speaker 2: Like the top ten percent locations are really the only
Speaker 2: ones that survive. I'm relatively lucky, you know, both of
Speaker 2: us are because you live in very populated areas, like
Speaker 2: the populated area more so than like Texas where I'm from, right,
Speaker 2: Like I could drive an hour from where I'm from
Speaker 2: and actually not see anybody a little bit less now,
Speaker 2: but specifically whenever I was.
Speaker 1: Growing, from where I am from where I live to
Speaker 1: the mall is forty five minutes, So all right, that's
Speaker 1: my local town.
Speaker 2: I mean, we at least, you know, around d C,
Speaker 2: we have like super malls that certainly are doing well.
Speaker 2: But the problem in my opinion, is that now they're
Speaker 2: super crowded because they're like the only malls that everybody
Speaker 2: can go to.
Speaker 3: So now there's like one mall for like a million people.
Speaker 2: Effectively, yeah, and so it's actually your unpleasant experience I
Speaker 2: think whenever you visit it. But yeah, I mean it's
Speaker 2: just a cultural touchstone which I think is just dying.
Speaker 2: Is it's just effectively gone at this point, and the
Speaker 2: shared experience I think for teenagers and all that. If
Speaker 2: you live in a more suburban area. I don't know
Speaker 2: if it's going to be accessible to a lot of it.
Speaker 2: I don't really know what people do now, but it's
Speaker 2: not this and it's just that's the interesting Yeah, you're
Speaker 2: right scrolling.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that is there's just a lot less
Speaker 1: that's like in person, because yeah, when I was a teenager,
Speaker 1: that was the thing to do, especially once I could drive,
Speaker 1: you know, go with your friends, just go walk around,
Speaker 1: get a pretzel at Antie ends that Yeah, still a
Speaker 1: big fan of that.
Speaker 4: Actually, we had anti Ens pretzels.
Speaker 2: That are well you can get them. You can get
Speaker 2: them now in the airport.
Speaker 3: That's the only time I even seeing on there.
Speaker 4: They don't.
Speaker 1: They're still so good. So go to your local mall
Speaker 1: for no other reason than to buy.
Speaker 3: The hot prouss.
Speaker 2: I feel like this smell is particularly I don't know
Speaker 2: if it's fake or not kind of like subway is
Speaker 2: a fake bread smell, but man, it does hit every
Speaker 2: single time. All right, everybody enjoy We'll see you guys later.
Speaker 1: Did a monologue last week about a class trader that
Speaker 1: I had my eye on, Abigail Disney. She is the
Speaker 1: granddaughter of Roy Disney, one of the co founders of Disney.
Speaker 1: She's been speaking out, become quite an activist, recently got arrested,
Speaker 1: and she's also a film producer. And she joins us, Now,
Speaker 1: great to have you, Abigail.
Speaker 3: Good to see you, great to be here.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, So this interview gave to Rolling Stone really caught
Speaker 1: my eyelists put this up on the screen. So one
Speaker 1: of the things you say here is you woke up
Speaker 1: one day and realized that just by virtue of being
Speaker 1: born lucky, I had so much more than everyone else.
Speaker 1: And I don't think I've slept well since I figured
Speaker 1: that out. I wonder if you could reflect on that
Speaker 1: moment of realization and also what you feel like you
Speaker 1: owe to society given your birth into wealth and privilege.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, so, you know, actually, there were many moments
Speaker 5: over the years, and the one moment about private planes
Speaker 5: was definitely one moment when I was flying alone on
Speaker 5: a seven thirty seven with you know, a waitress, I mean,
Speaker 5: a stewardess flight attendant and a queen's size bed to
Speaker 5: sleep in, and just you know, wrong, wrong, just wrong,
Speaker 5: and I couldn't keep operating that way. It just felt
Speaker 5: wrong in every conceivable way.
Speaker 4: And I've I've had.
Speaker 5: Moments like that along the way multiple times, and Yeah,
Speaker 5: what it brings up in you is the idea that
Speaker 5: you know that other people are suffering, a lot of
Speaker 5: people are suffering, and sometimes indirectly as a result of
Speaker 5: the reason you have. You have all that you have,
Speaker 5: so you really have to kind of in interrogate the
Speaker 5: things that put you in this city vantaged position you're
Speaker 5: in and go find out what you can do about
Speaker 5: some of this inequity.
Speaker 3: That's what I'm trying to do, so, Abigail.
Speaker 2: I mean one of the reasons too, that we've been
Speaker 2: taking a lot of notice of your comments, not just
Speaker 2: about that, but also you know, in terms of the
Speaker 2: writers strike, we have the CEO of the company who
Speaker 2: helm's one that bears your name, Bob Eiger, you know,
Speaker 2: speaking out against the demands of these writers. So as
Speaker 2: somebody both from your position but also, you know, you
Speaker 2: have the Disney last name, Like, what did it feel
Speaker 2: like to watch kind of that happen with somebody with
Speaker 2: the scion of your family and something that you guys
Speaker 2: work so hard to build?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 5: And Ashley, this is something I've not quietly been saying
Speaker 5: about Bob Iger for quite some time now, because his
Speaker 5: pay has been outrageous for years, and there was a
Speaker 5: year in there when he made two thousand times what
Speaker 5: his night janitors were making. And that's just again the
Speaker 5: idea that you sleep well at night knowing that is
Speaker 5: disturbing to me. What he said about what he said
Speaker 5: about the demand being unrealistic and disruptive, those those were
Speaker 5: the parts that really caught people off guard because.
Speaker 3: That was.
Speaker 5: Laying there the reality that those demands that the writers
Speaker 5: and the actors are making are only unrealistic if you're
Speaker 5: tethered to this particular way of doing capitalism, and it's
Speaker 5: you have to be unrealistic about the lives of the
Speaker 5: writers in order to expect them to live the way
Speaker 5: that they've been living. So our unrealisms are colliding with
Speaker 5: each other, and there's going something's going to have to give.
Speaker 5: And what's been giving up till now is almost constantly
Speaker 5: the workers the way we do capitalists, and this fundamentalist
Speaker 5: version of it that we practiced needs to change. And
Speaker 5: Bob Eider is just as much a practitioner of fundamentalist
Speaker 5: capitalism as as Jack Welch.
Speaker 3: Wash.
Speaker 1: Can you speak a little bit to the mindset, because
Speaker 1: I mean you, you know, you swim in these circles,
Speaker 1: and so you have perhaps a unique window into how
Speaker 1: someone does sleep perfectly fine at night, while you know
Speaker 1: some of their workers are homeless and unable to afford
Speaker 1: just the basics of life that are going on on
Speaker 1: strike because they can't afford rent, they can't afford to eat,
Speaker 1: they certainly can't afford to have a family. How do
Speaker 1: people who are in that position make sense of that
Speaker 1: and still feel themselves to be moral actors.
Speaker 5: Well, you know what a lot of those folks say
Speaker 5: is I'm just paying the going rate. That's just the rate.
Speaker 5: It's a free market and that's what you pay. And
Speaker 5: it's not a free market. First of all, Disney gets
Speaker 5: all kinds of incentives and perks from governments from local
Speaker 5: to state to federals. So it's not a free market,
Speaker 5: and it's not a free market in terms of wages,
Speaker 5: because if McDonald's and the Gap and everybody else has
Speaker 5: sort of made a gentleman's agreement and I use the
Speaker 5: gender term intentionally here to keep wages where they are,
Speaker 5: then it's not a free market. So the idea that
Speaker 5: they're just paying the going rate is what helps them
Speaker 5: sleep at night.
Speaker 4: And then what I've heard is, well, but the government's
Speaker 4: letting them down.
Speaker 5: The government hasn't made sure that they can afford the
Speaker 5: things they need, which is kind of an extraordinary hypocritical
Speaker 5: cop out, given the way they fight the government at
Speaker 5: every turn when it comes time to pay their taxes,
Speaker 5: and they you know, and they strong arm all these
Speaker 5: subsidies out of the government, and yet the government is
Speaker 5: the first place they turn when they think their workers
Speaker 5: aren't getting enough to eat. So the taxpayers are picking
Speaker 5: up the bill for a lot of the shortfalls that
Speaker 5: corporations are enforcing on their workers. And I feel like
Speaker 5: the rank and file in this country should be a
Speaker 5: lot angrier about the way we're doing right now, you know.
Speaker 2: And I'm interested here. I'm most curious Abool in your
Speaker 2: view of Disney itself. Everything I've read about Roy Disney,
Speaker 2: about your father, about the belief in Disney animation, the
Speaker 2: connection to the family, about Disney World, the experience that
Speaker 2: the average family could get whenever they're connecting with the
Speaker 2: day Disney brand, and the experience Erica we've seen it
Speaker 2: monetized to an extraordinary degree. Is specifically also in recent
Speaker 2: months in terms of prices and all that. Do you
Speaker 2: view that kind of as a parallel to the same
Speaker 2: societal problems of what we're seeing today.
Speaker 5: So that's essentially why I made the film that I
Speaker 5: just made, which is called The American Dream and Other
Speaker 5: fairy Tales, and you can find it on I hate
Speaker 5: saying this Amazon.
Speaker 4: And iTunes, sorry about that.
Speaker 5: You know, I was so struck by how different it
Speaker 5: was from the way I remember it being when I
Speaker 5: would grow with my grandfather, roy O Disney and then
Speaker 5: my father roy E, And you know, I was so
Speaker 5: struck by, first of all, the way my grandfather's related
Speaker 5: to the employees there. You know, he really didn't see
Speaker 5: himself as better than anyone. He didn't really see himself
Speaker 5: as inhabiting a slice of society that was any you know,
Speaker 5: higher or more important. And that's a really important mindset difference,
Speaker 5: because that mindset difference is another piece of the way
Speaker 5: you sleep well that night. When you're paying people submnimum wages,
Speaker 5: you know, you sleep well at night because well, they're
Speaker 5: not you, They're not like you.
Speaker 3: You're a different person on this cloud.
Speaker 5: So my grandfather never never acted that way, never treated
Speaker 5: people their way. And he understood the job of being
Speaker 5: a CEO as creating livelihoods, which is a very different
Speaker 5: thing from just paying salaries or creating jobs. And he
Speaker 5: really understood that people were raising their families on these wages.
Speaker 5: And so if you were a janitor at Disneyland in
Speaker 5: the beginning in the nineteen fifties and sixties, you could
Speaker 5: afford to buy a house, You could afford to send
Speaker 5: your children to college. Yes, this is partly the government
Speaker 5: and you know, abandoning people as well, but it was
Speaker 5: a kind of a three legged stool between labor and
Speaker 5: government and corporations, and they were balancing each other out
Speaker 5: better than and unfortunately we've taken that, we've taken that away,
Speaker 5: and we taken away the middle class basically from our structure.
Speaker 1: What would it take to rebalance things in a more
Speaker 1: reasonable direction back to you know, I mean obviously we
Speaker 1: recognize some of the inequities and the biases of that.
Speaker 4: Generation as well.
Speaker 1: But you said that you think that there's a fundamentalist
Speaker 1: version of capitalism that is propelled by people like Bob Iger,
Speaker 1: that is sort of reinforced by the government.
Speaker 4: So what does it look like to rebalance those skills?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I sometimes think that if we followed the line
Speaker 5: back from here to Ronald Reagan's election in nineteen eighty
Speaker 5: and just undo almost everything he did, all of those
Speaker 5: tax cuts, all you know, from Trump's back to Bushes,
Speaker 5: back to Reagan's original ones, all of the deregulation, the
Speaker 5: handicapping of OSHA and NRB, the attack on unions that
Speaker 5: happened at the federal, state, and local level. If you
Speaker 5: just follow that line, the fairness doctrine and media, if
Speaker 5: you just follow that line of things that Reagan got going,
Speaker 5: and then other administrations, not always Republican, continued from there,
Speaker 5: I think that would be.
Speaker 3: The way that we would need to do it.
Speaker 5: And the other thing we'd have to do is spend
Speaker 5: money on education. You know, we have been strangling the
Speaker 5: education system and we've turned a college education into something
Speaker 5: that you know, most people can't afford, which is such.
Speaker 3: A broken promise.
Speaker 5: When I was growing up, anybody could get a college
Speaker 5: education by working.
Speaker 3: A job at night.
Speaker 5: This is insane what we're doing to ourselves. Health Care.
Speaker 5: We'd have to put health care in place too. And
Speaker 5: you know, my daughter was living in Paris for a
Speaker 5: long time, and she's thirty two years old. She told
Speaker 5: me that all of her friends in the US are
Speaker 5: not having children, but all of her friends in France.
Speaker 4: Are having children.
Speaker 5: And the difference is health care, childcare, job security, housing, security, education.
Speaker 3: Those are the things that.
Speaker 5: Are in place in France that we have taken out
Speaker 5: from under our working people in this country over the
Speaker 5: last fifty years.
Speaker 1: Very interesting, pot And finally, Abigail, I found it very
Speaker 1: I found it actually very powerful. The way you directly
Speaker 1: called out Taylor Swift, who's the top private jet user,
Speaker 1: Leonardo DiCaprio, who was in don't look up, but that
Speaker 1: hasn't stopped him from, you know, flying around on his
Speaker 1: private jet. And listen, I mean, one wealthy person for
Speaker 1: going their private jet travel is not going to save
Speaker 1: the planet. But it is true that the ultra wealthy
Speaker 1: have way more carbon output than your average citizen around
Speaker 1: the world. So what do you think is the role
Speaker 1: of just like publicly shaming some of these people who
Speaker 1: are blatant hypocrites in terms of their stated values in
Speaker 1: the way they actually live.
Speaker 5: Corporations and the government have not hesitated to shame working
Speaker 5: people into recycling and using less plastic and turning their
Speaker 5: thermostat down and all the rest of it.
Speaker 4: And every one of.
Speaker 5: Those decisions is a decision that has a collective consequences.
Speaker 5: Everybody makes it, but really doesn't make a difference if
Speaker 5: it's just you. So those are all the same ways
Speaker 5: in which rich people are going to have to think
Speaker 5: about the way they run their lives.
Speaker 3: It won't make a.
Speaker 5: Difference if I decided to fly my private plane, but
Speaker 5: it's going to make a huge difference if we all stop.
Speaker 5: So they have to acknowledge they're part of the collective,
Speaker 5: that their actions have collective consequences. It's just the same
Speaker 5: as everyone else. It involves that mindset shift among wealthy people,
Speaker 5: which is right at the heart of so much of
Speaker 5: the problem we have. They have to come to an
Speaker 5: understanding that they're no better or more important than anyone
Speaker 5: else just because they.
Speaker 3: Have these resources. And that's going to be a big
Speaker 3: mindset shift for people.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's all well said Abiel. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for your time. It's great to chat with you.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thanks so much.
Speaker 4: It's our pleasure.