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Speaker 1: This is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening Hunt Don't

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Speaker 1: Eat podcast. You can't predict anything presented by first light.

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Speaker 1: Go farther, stay longer. You know, we haven't talked about forever.

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Speaker 1: Your honest, you do. This is even a This is

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Speaker 1: not a ad. This is just like you do a

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Speaker 1: pitch for the guide books. I feel like you're like,

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Speaker 1: we haven't talked about the guide books and so long.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of peopleho don't realize that we have

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Speaker 1: a seven hundred page volume one, Volume two, Complete Guide

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Speaker 1: to Hunting, butcher and Cooking wild Game. Everybody's asking for him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well we should pitch him. Pretend like you're gonna add

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Speaker 1: And that's like we've been put on the spot here

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Speaker 1: trying to wing a ad for it. Um new to hunting,

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Speaker 1: veteran hunter somewhere in between. Guaranteed you'll find something too

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Speaker 1: interesting to read in both volumes. Yeah, it's seven pages long. Now,

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Speaker 1: there's no way you know, there's no like, I don't

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Speaker 1: care if you went and asked, uh, yeah, you go

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Speaker 1: asked Daniel Boone. He's got no not gonna know all

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Speaker 1: the ship there because they didn't have tag draws back

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Speaker 1: in Daniel Boone's day, and it explains that stuff. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to act like you or I also know

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Speaker 1: everything that was putting that book. Now. I forgot a

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Speaker 1: lot of what I wrote in that book, right, But

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Speaker 1: we also had a lot of other veteran hunters that

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Speaker 1: are more experienced in um uh certain subsets of hunting

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Speaker 1: that helped us out and wrote you know, short pieces,

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Speaker 1: some of them longer than others to you know the uh,

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Speaker 1: just so we could get a little more death in

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Speaker 1: places where we might not have had that from all

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Speaker 1: around the country, way in on various subjects. We even

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Speaker 1: call it that so and so weighs in on various subjects.

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Speaker 1: But when we we when we finished the manuscript, it

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Speaker 1: took years to do the books. We finished it. I

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Speaker 1: brought it to my publishers. She's like, books, aren't this

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Speaker 1: You can't do a book this big. You can have

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Speaker 1: a seven d page book. That's when we broke it

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Speaker 1: into volume one and volume two. Volume one is big game,

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Speaker 1: Volume two small game, everything from squirrels on up to cranes.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, Volume one covers all North America's

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Speaker 1: big game animals, and it's got a bunch of cooking stuff,

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Speaker 1: sausage making. I'm in the Big Gass book. Do you

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Speaker 1: know those books you're I think you're cal you're in

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Speaker 1: the books. Did you write the books? Uh? Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was asked to. I'm not sure exactly what you guys use. No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: you're in it. Uh in your pictures in it A

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Speaker 1: bunch of times. You guys should know though, every time

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Speaker 1: I recommend those did you know? I deal with a

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Speaker 1: lot of a lot of beginners, for sure, And and

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Speaker 1: every time I recommend those, folks don't know they're out there,

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Speaker 1: which is amazing, And they always follow up rate like,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much, this and this is so helpful.

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Speaker 1: Now that's an ad. Y'all need to take something peimonial.

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Speaker 1: You can see our guests here who I haven't introduced yet,

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Speaker 1: Brad Brooks from the World Society. You read them. You

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Speaker 1: actually bought one a bottle from my brother. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: thought he could learn how to hunt better. Did you

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Speaker 1: look at yourself? Of course? What was your first impression?

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Speaker 1: Was it like holy ship? There was a lot of

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Speaker 1: I guess it's dance. It's a dance. Book, but it

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Speaker 1: was good, hopefully illustrated. Actually, you know what, there's a

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Speaker 1: section on glassing. I thought it was really useful for

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Speaker 1: most folks, like how to pick a part of landscape.

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Speaker 1: You know, most folks don't know how to glass. Probably

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Speaker 1: they don't so um and most people don't recognize that

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Speaker 1: it's a thing you need to learn. Yeah, you don't

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Speaker 1: just like go out and like throw up your knoculars

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Speaker 1: and start seeing like big stuff, you know right away. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you're not like, oh, I need to learn Like,

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Speaker 1: no one's ever like I need to learn how to

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Speaker 1: find animals with my binoculars. You just think like I'll

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Speaker 1: just start doing it, I'll just see them. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: it's like a thing you gotta It's like if it's

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Speaker 1: like if you're gonna start, like if I want to

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Speaker 1: start making my own socks, right, I have to go

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Speaker 1: and look that ship up on YouTube. It's like, you

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Speaker 1: should approach glassing like a thing you're gonna learn totally

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Speaker 1: like acquires tricks. And you know, so did you buy

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Speaker 1: this book for the brother that kills bigger stuff than yeah?

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Speaker 1: That one? Yeah, well that's weird. You want him to

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Speaker 1: get even just bigger stuff than you. You know, I

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Speaker 1: figured he's, uh, he might stumble across a big animal

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Speaker 1: every once in a while, but it doesn't necessarily make

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Speaker 1: him a better hunter. So I figured, you know, if

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Speaker 1: we're gonna keep hunting together, you need to learn a

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Speaker 1: few things. And like, he doesn't want to listen to

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Speaker 1: me all the time, so I figure, give him a

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Speaker 1: book I haven't read it, and then you know, then

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Speaker 1: he can decide if he wants to acquire that information

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Speaker 1: or internalize it. But yeah, you just tell him be

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Speaker 1: like I ghost wrote this book. These people to say

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Speaker 1: they wrote this book, did not write this book, called

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Speaker 1: me out right now. This is my brother, Kurtis Miller brother.

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Speaker 1: He has shot bigger stuff than me. Not, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: claim right now, not because he's a better hunter, but

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Speaker 1: because he has more discipline and waiting for passing up animals.

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Speaker 1: It's just not a skill that I really have cared

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Speaker 1: to acquire. So if that falls under being a better hunter, no,

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Speaker 1: absolutely displine the discipline to wait, so you have to

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Speaker 1: want to wait? Number one? Right, Well, I mean that's

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Speaker 1: what makes a good makes a good hunter, makes a

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Speaker 1: good hunter is passing up animals. Oh yeah, I thought

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Speaker 1: you just meant, like guys in just the patients, just

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Speaker 1: to wait in Hunt the whole day. You got nine

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Speaker 1: days Hunt. You're like the bowl, I'm gonna shoot that ball,

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Speaker 1: and your buddy's like, not me, man, I'm waiting for

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Speaker 1: a giant And then he risks, you know, empty freezer syndrome.

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Speaker 1: I misunderstood, Um, Cal, what we're gonna get to Brad Bradbert.

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Speaker 1: He's gonna we'll get to him. We're gonna cover him thorough.

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Speaker 1: But Cal, what's your story lately? Oh? As I have

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Speaker 1: the unusual job title. I do have this extremely unusual

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Speaker 1: up title, the director of Conservation and Public Relations at

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Speaker 1: First Light. So it's so like, uh, is there a

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Speaker 1: lot Are there a lot of apparel companies that have

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Speaker 1: that role? I do not think so. I certain certainly

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Speaker 1: haven't run into any money. As far as I know,

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Speaker 1: that's a very unique title. I think there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of people doing what I do, but not with

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Speaker 1: the name. Yeah. Well, and you're like, let's say you,

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Speaker 1: I know you work more on this. Let's let's just

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Speaker 1: say it. It It doesn't matter how many hours a week

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Speaker 1: you work, like what percentage your time is spent in

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Speaker 1: those issues? Oh? Man at this point. You know, we're

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Speaker 1: so face forward on um a lot of conservation issues,

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Speaker 1: but you know, mainly the public lands uh situation that's

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Speaker 1: going on right now that it it's a huge part

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Speaker 1: of my job, UM, because it also falls into pr

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Speaker 1: when I'm talking to lots of different writers and uh,

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Speaker 1: and into our marketing side of things, because we use

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Speaker 1: it throughout our digital marketing and and we're pushing the message.

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Speaker 1: You know. I think that's one of the biggest values

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Speaker 1: we uh we have for these conservation groups out there,

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Speaker 1: is we can use our platform to make sure people

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Speaker 1: are at least aware of these issues. So what I'm

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Speaker 1: getting at though, is in your work week, are you

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Speaker 1: only for like you're you're paid by first Light and

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Speaker 1: the most of your work is directed towards conservation issues

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Speaker 1: uh certain times of the year yea, yeah, so stuff

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Speaker 1: comes up, yep, stuff comes up. UM, you know it.

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Speaker 1: There's very few people out there doing what we do,

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Speaker 1: so it is uh, you know, it's valuable for um,

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Speaker 1: you know, writers that have written about the same stuff

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Speaker 1: over and over again to look at things from a

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Speaker 1: different angle because you know, really in the hunting community,

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Speaker 1: it's always been very taboo to take a stance on anything. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because you're always you're afraid you're gonna piss someone off. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's everybody uses like the you know, it's a

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Speaker 1: small pie. I can't I can't afford to cut anybody

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Speaker 1: else there, you know, offend anybody or pushing anybody out

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Speaker 1: of it because the industry is not that big. But

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Speaker 1: it's just really not the case. And and like you've

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Speaker 1: said in the past, man, you gotta if you don't

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Speaker 1: stand for anything, what do you stand for? Right? I

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Speaker 1: think you think of a country a country and western musician.

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Speaker 1: You gotta stand for something. You'll fall for anything. Who

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Speaker 1: is this good one? The top ten country song? At

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Speaker 1: one point in time when I was washing that, I

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Speaker 1: was washing dishes at Steiner's Point twin Lake, Michigan, and

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Speaker 1: it was a song on the radio. Yeah. I used

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Speaker 1: to wash dishes on sometimes on weekends. Yeah. I was

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Speaker 1: in the dish pit quite a bit myself. It gets

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Speaker 1: so greasy. The lower part of your T shirt just

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Speaker 1: gets ruined washing dishes in a bar. Man, I was

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Speaker 1: in the bar and grilled part of the bar or

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Speaker 1: like the was like a kid. It's like the kind

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Speaker 1: of place where people go on a Friday night to

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Speaker 1: get primary of yeah, like that kind of place with

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Speaker 1: a big boiled potato rats and or like a bake

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Speaker 1: potato rats and uh looming hum foil. Yeah, that kind

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Speaker 1: of jointed. Yeah, that was my first job outside of

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Speaker 1: working for my dad. Um. There was a place called

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Speaker 1: me Rancheto and they did not have like a like

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Speaker 1: a hole bart with drop down to where they just

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Speaker 1: runs like a minute cycle. It was three bins just

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Speaker 1: washers today. They don't even know what a three bin

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Speaker 1: sink is. I don't think just washers today. Let me

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Speaker 1: take about diswashers today. Yeah, three bands. So that that

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Speaker 1: was my whole deal. Like super greasy from like the

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Speaker 1: neck up, but just kind of soaked from the neck

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Speaker 1: down in an inexplicably dirty feeling. By the time my

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Speaker 1: first job was running the whole bart when I was thirteen,

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Speaker 1: I was it wasn't even llegal for me to have

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Speaker 1: a job. And I remember I was thirteen because my

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Speaker 1: brother Danny, he was two years older me, wasn't even

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Speaker 1: able to drive yet, and we would both ride on

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Speaker 1: his Honda moped on a spree to go to camp

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Speaker 1: a summer camp my my area. Wid grew up was

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Speaker 1: full of summer camps. It was like very like rural

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Speaker 1: and cabiney back then. And one of the summer camps

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Speaker 1: is Camp Penned Luan And we'd go down there on

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Speaker 1: his moped and we had to be there at six

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Speaker 1: and do breakfast, would do breakfast, lunch, just washing dishes

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Speaker 1: with a machine. And we're younger than the damn campers

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Speaker 1: because band camps to come in. The kids were older

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Speaker 1: and we were. We didn't mix kool aid in the

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Speaker 1: garbage can and stir it with a canoe paddle. That

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Speaker 1: was one of our responsibilities at pendaluan Um oh man,

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Speaker 1: do that ship anymore? Man? But man, oh man, A

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Speaker 1: little bit of like actual work goes a long way.

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Speaker 1: And humility, man, big time teaches you humans. A janitor

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Speaker 1: was my first shot. I didn't wash dishes good. I

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Speaker 1: was like in a water park. I used to get

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Speaker 1: paid for hours to scrub gum, scrape gum off the sidewalk.

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Speaker 1: You're out there with like some chemical like scraping gum,

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Speaker 1: like yeah, you know what it was like stepped on

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Speaker 1: and like you know, worked into the Really think when

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Speaker 1: you see someone spit their gum out on a sidewalk problem.

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Speaker 1: I don't do it. Yeah, I won't do it still

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Speaker 1: to this day, still just eat it rather than spit

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Speaker 1: it out. Absolutely incentive type of janitorial position, like per

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Speaker 1: piece of gum you can find. No, it was, it

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Speaker 1: was out of the perk. The biggest perk of the

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Speaker 1: job was there. It was like a pizza hut in

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Speaker 1: the joint in this water park and uh in Idaho.

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Speaker 1: So you know, it's a top quality water park just

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Speaker 1: outside of Boise and uh, you got to uh at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, they were gonna throw the

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Speaker 1: pizza away and so they would give it out to

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Speaker 1: all of those employees. So so you ended the day

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Speaker 1: with a little pizza. Yeah. That lasted like a week.

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Speaker 1: After a week of eating like pizza hut pizza Like,

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Speaker 1: I won't. I can't eat that ship again either. It's

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Speaker 1: like I'm over it. You can't do it. I can't

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Speaker 1: stomach it. I imagine not so, I imagine burns you.

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Speaker 1: The most interesting job I had as a youngster was

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Speaker 1: peeling logs for log homes. So you had to draw

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Speaker 1: a knife. Oh yeah, that's cool. Yeah, because here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: They still do it like that. Yeah, and even when

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Speaker 1: like if it depends what if you cut when they

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Speaker 1: cut the trees. If you cut the trees in the fall, right,

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Speaker 1: and the trees freeze in the winter, when the spring

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Speaker 1: thaw comes, the bark falls off. But by then that

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Speaker 1: tree is hard, so there's no bark on it and

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Speaker 1: the outside is hard. But you still had to draw

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Speaker 1: knife the whole damn tree because they want that look. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the hand peeled look. So you'd think like, oh, it'll

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Speaker 1: be easier now because there's no bark on it. It

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Speaker 1: took you, it was it paid thirty five cents of foot,

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Speaker 1: so you get a tree me like forty two ft

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Speaker 1: long cents of foot to strip the bark off with

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Speaker 1: a draw a knife. And if when you were peeling,

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Speaker 1: if you're peeling in the spring and it was like

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Speaker 1: old trees that the bar could come off, it was

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Speaker 1: way less money. And it was really hard to get

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Speaker 1: your stroke. It's hard to get your cut to look

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Speaker 1: nice and smooth. Your cut would have this kind of

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Speaker 1: jay get torn look. And then Ed Thompson, who I

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Speaker 1: worked for, I wouldn't like him like that. So the

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Speaker 1: thing to do is just peel fresh. But then you

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Speaker 1: get to the butt end of those things man, that

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Speaker 1: barks like three inches thick, and and you could a

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Speaker 1: good peeler could peel enough to be able to afford

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Speaker 1: leather gloves, because if you were like a ship peeler,

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Speaker 1: you'd lose money buying leather gloves. You. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: gloves just don't they take heat shrink tube. It's just

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Speaker 1: like Ed Thompson to make his own draw knights. He'd

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Speaker 1: take three quarter inch rebar, bend it like in a

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Speaker 1: big u, and then put heat shrink tubing on the

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Speaker 1: handles and then weld the blade on there and he'd

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Speaker 1: sharpen them for you, free to charge. So he'd do

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Speaker 1: the sharpening. He just go down there and just start

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Speaker 1: breaking draw a knife in those trees. Man. He had

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Speaker 1: a variety of things work. Yeah, he'd get some stuff

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Speaker 1: from out west, some stuff from Michigan. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: they mechanically peel them, but then they almost had to

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Speaker 1: go back and yeah, that's my understanding. And now it

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Speaker 1: was this dude Wendell. It was me sometimes my brothers

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Speaker 1: had peel a little bit, and it was a dude

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Speaker 1: named Barefoot. Yeah. When I was doing the freaking trees, man,

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Speaker 1: it was for uh, it was interesting. Guys like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna pay you five dollars and fifty cents an hour,

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Speaker 1: which was cents more than minimum wage in Montana at

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Speaker 1: the time, because you're a good kid. Stoked about it.

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Speaker 1: Uh two weeks it was minimum wage. I'm like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: first job, like you know, on the books job ever,

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Speaker 1: and he guys like, ah, yeah, I didn't really know

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Speaker 1: if you're gonna stick around, so I put you at

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Speaker 1: the minimum wayage. We'll talk about this later. I still understand.

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Speaker 1: Never got paid the promised five fift Oh really good

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Speaker 1: lesson for a kid. And then about halfway through that summer, um,

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Speaker 1: I got an offer we'll call it to bust rocks

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Speaker 1: big river rocks in the basement of a building with

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Speaker 1: sledgehammer because they couldn't get to get him out of

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Speaker 1: there so they could expand the basement of this office building.

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Speaker 1: So that's what I did. How big are the river rocks? Huge?

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Speaker 1: For hammer all day? It's glacial glacial lake Missoula, big

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Speaker 1: aquifer boulders, like you can't pick them up and carry

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Speaker 1: them now? Really, yeah, that's interesting. Eight bucks an hour

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Speaker 1: And I was just like, whoa eight bucks an hour?

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Speaker 1: Give me that hammer, I'll start waling on a rock.

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Speaker 1: When I was washing dishes at Steiner's point, um, I

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Speaker 1: remember the owner was a lady named Gretchen, and Steiner

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Speaker 1: was her dog. But what I was trying to do

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Speaker 1: in the daytime then is I was trying to commercially

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Speaker 1: trap snapping turtles, which is a hard business to make

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Speaker 1: money in because I'd get a buck a pound for

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Speaker 1: turtle meat to turtle, I could have the lower shell

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Speaker 1: on the turtle, so you'd like you'd skin the whole turtle,

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Speaker 1: leaving everything connected to the lower shell, so gut's head, feet,

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Speaker 1: upper shell gone buck a pound. Very hard to make money.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you do that in Michigan anymore. At

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Speaker 1: the time, you could now all the weight in the

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Speaker 1: upper shell, is that all the way to everywhere else?

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Speaker 1: All your left, I mean you're left with the yield

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Speaker 1: on the turtle is not big, you know, it's like

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Speaker 1: a big game animal that yields like right, the turtle

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Speaker 1: is not even near that ship. I've never attempted, never

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Speaker 1: attempted to cut one open. Yeah, it's a chore. What

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Speaker 1: happened how we got into that line of work, not

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Speaker 1: even the line work, how I got into that attempt.

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Speaker 1: Is one day we were dipping smelt and did way

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Speaker 1: more smell uh than we really had any use for.

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Speaker 1: And you're like, you don't know about restraint when your kids.

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Speaker 1: Remember me and my brother were out. We went to

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Speaker 1: pent Water and we dipped eight five gallon buckets to

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Speaker 1: smell one night. So tell me a little bit about

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Speaker 1: exactly like you always talk about dipping smell, but I

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Speaker 1: really don't even know like how that works. There's three

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Speaker 1: ways we'd get them, and you don't clean them right, No,

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Speaker 1: you're I got a bunch of that freeze because my

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Speaker 1: buddy Michigan sends me bags of smell everywhere. But even

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Speaker 1: for human or human to clean them or not. We

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Speaker 1: would typically take a pair of scissors, cut their head

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Speaker 1: off and got him with scissors. Okay, but you're cleaning

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Speaker 1: buckets full of you know, he freezes him hole and

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Speaker 1: then cleans him before he eats him, or we would

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Speaker 1: now and then just fry the whole damn fish hole

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Speaker 1: and eat it like that. Anyways, So we get them

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Speaker 1: three ways. One always at night, so always in the dark. Uh.

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Speaker 1: One way we'd get them isn't a run up stream

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Speaker 1: mouths okay, So you go to a very small stream,

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Speaker 1: like one place we used to catch them a fair

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Speaker 1: bit was Duck Lake Channel. So there's a place called

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Speaker 1: Duck Lake. Duck Lake has a channel flows out in

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Speaker 1: Lake Michigan, and smell are in the Great la well everywhere,

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Speaker 1: not everywhere, but this type of smell is an a

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Speaker 1: nadrumous smell. So this smell lives in the big water

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Speaker 1: runs up river to spawn and a spawn like right

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Speaker 1: in the lower sections of the river, not in the

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Speaker 1: Great Lakes now, So they would run up and just

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Speaker 1: spawn like and basically in the mouth of a stream.

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Speaker 1: They'd come up in the dark and you just stand

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Speaker 1: out there and you could either if it was really

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Speaker 1: good and real high and marty, you dip them blind.

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Speaker 1: Were you just taking a big net and running that

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Speaker 1: net down current. If it was clear water, we would

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Speaker 1: just hang a land around a post and you'd wait

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Speaker 1: and big schools of them had come by and you

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Speaker 1: dip them up. Or we would go to the places

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Speaker 1: they had break walls, so like pent Water, White Lake Channel,

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Speaker 1: me scheg and channeling in these various channels, and we're

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Speaker 1: to smelt or getting ready to go up big water

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Speaker 1: courses and you just sit on the break walls built

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Speaker 1: out into the into Lake Michigan and hang a lantern

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Speaker 1: and you just and they just get they'd hit the wall.

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Speaker 1: They'd hit the breake wall. The schools, and I'm talking

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Speaker 1: giant schools. You know, you see like pods of them

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Speaker 1: that were like a car right just dance with thousands

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Speaker 1: of them. They'd hit the brake wall and just go

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Speaker 1: up and down the breake wall trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: what to do. And you have what's called a drop net,

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Speaker 1: and they there's certain size, like I believe at the time,

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Speaker 1: I think you could have a thirty six inch square

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00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,880
Speaker 1: drop nets. You have nine square feet to drop net

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Speaker 1: on a pole and you'd lower the drop net down

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Speaker 1: to the bottom and you wanted to be like the

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00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,639
Speaker 1: color of sand. And as the school drifted over your

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Speaker 1: dropping that, you just lift you dropping net up and

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Speaker 1: that was when you were really like knocking the hell

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00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,359
Speaker 1: out of him. It was typically like drop nets are

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Speaker 1: very effective. So me and Matt went to Pentwater one night.

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Speaker 1: We dipped uh forty gallons with a drop net to

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Speaker 1: drop nets. But we were getting so many you we

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Speaker 1: were filling the bucket like it was a long walk.

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Speaker 1: One guy want that I remember that night in particular,

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Speaker 1: just to take one bucket up the car and come

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Speaker 1: back and the other the other guy dipping would have

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Speaker 1: his bucket full. So our fishing mentor down the beach.

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Speaker 1: You got by the name of John Garry, who passed

380
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Speaker 1: away some years ago. Um he fished. He lived by

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Speaker 1: himself a fish two d days a year, and I'm

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00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:03,040
Speaker 1: not it's like bullshit. Like he would show you he

383
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:04,879
Speaker 1: kept track of how many days he fish and what

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00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:06,560
Speaker 1: books he read, and he would like pull out of

385
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Speaker 1: his notebook to be like, here's the days I fished,

386
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 1: what I fished, what I caught. And it was always

387
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:12,520
Speaker 1: like a mystery, like how could John Gary eat as

388
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 1: made fish as he caught? But then he tells us

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Speaker 1: what I do. When I get a lot of fishes,

390
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 1: I sell them down at Captain's Wharf and he'll buy

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00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,320
Speaker 1: anything that This is illegal, and I was young and stupid,

392
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 1: but he's like, they'll buy anything that that there is

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00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,200
Speaker 1: a legal market for us. So there's still like commercial

394
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,840
Speaker 1: perch fisheries in Canada and other places. So he would

395
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 1: buy yellow perch place no questions asked. John Gary said

396
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,720
Speaker 1: when you're told me, warned me at the time, when

397
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,439
Speaker 1: you're buying something from him, he has his thumb on

398
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,440
Speaker 1: the scale, and when you're selling him something, he's got

399
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,480
Speaker 1: his finger under the scale. But it ain't installed. Don't

400
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,560
Speaker 1: matter what he told me. So we took all these

401
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 1: smelt down there, and I remember the guy gave us

402
00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 1: forty bucks. He gave us a dollar a gallon for smell.

403
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,199
Speaker 1: And that's how I entered into this illicit relationship with

404
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,399
Speaker 1: this man at last, from when I was around, you know,

405
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 1: around that same period when I was scrubbing dishes legally

406
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 1: at Steiner's point. Yeah. Notes from the life of of

407
00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 1: of a former violator. All right, so here's here's a

408
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 1: segway for you. Brad Brooks, Brad Books, our guest. Tell

409
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:22,440
Speaker 1: us some what's going on? Tell tell what's your ax

410
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,199
Speaker 1: to grind? That's not a good way that that's not

411
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,120
Speaker 1: a good way to kick it off. Tell us, tell

412
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,440
Speaker 1: us what you do. I have a few things I do. Uh.

413
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,119
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm Ryan Callahan's handler. When there's media around. You

414
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,880
Speaker 1: do that keeping making embarrassing himself? Do yeah, I do

415
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,400
Speaker 1: um make sure he gets his hair cut on time.

416
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 1: I also have a company called our Galli. Um, it's

417
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,919
Speaker 1: like a lightweight back country hunting U company. I'll do

418
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,680
Speaker 1: some filming stuff, um, and then my full time job

419
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 1: as I work for the Wilderness Society and I'm the

420
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:02,480
Speaker 1: Public Lands campaign director also specific within the Wilderness Society. Yeah,

421
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: I mean I've done a bunch of stuff, but that's

422
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 1: kind of what I do now is run our Public

423
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 1: LANs campaign. Now, so break down the Wilderness Society formula.

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Speaker 1: I'm venturing that most like a lot of folks out

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00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 1: of the hunting and fishing world are probably not real

426
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:20,119
Speaker 1: familiar with the mandate of the Wilderness Society. Yeah. So

427
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 1: we have a mission to protect the wilderness and inspire

428
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 1: Americans careful wild places. I've been around since nine one

429
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 1: of the oldest conservation organizations in America, founded by the

430
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 1: likes of Bob Marshall Alde Leopold, some of the folks

431
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 1: that kind of invented this idea of conservation in America. Uh.

432
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 1: We are headquartered in d C. We have staff all

433
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 1: over the country, um, and we work on a variety

434
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: of issues, but Public LANs conservation is kind of the

435
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 1: core of it. What's your guys, what's your working definition

436
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 1: of wilderness, dude, that's that's that's a really a tough

437
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 1: question to answer. There's like capital W wilderness, congessionally designated wilderness,

438
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: that's very federally recognized wilderness, federally recognized wilderness. There's a

439
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: law and a definition, right. I think that is a

440
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 1: very small subset of what we consider to be wilderness

441
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 1: that we call small W wilderness is really kind of

442
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 1: in the eye of beholder. Um so for some people,

443
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,680
Speaker 1: like a park in a city, is their idea of wilderness. Uh,

444
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 1: that's that's a stretch. But surely for some people that's

445
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,719
Speaker 1: that is their wilderness experience, like, because they wouldn't be like, hey,

446
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 1: I'm going into the wilderness and they'll walk into the man,

447
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:37,439
Speaker 1: I don't know, you'd be surprised, Uh, wilderness. Call it

448
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 1: like the wilds, the wilds go for a walk in

449
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 1: the woods, I think would be fair to say. But

450
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: this is where I gets like, that's how the woods dude,

451
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,719
Speaker 1: that's a park comfort zone. All yeah, okay, well let

452
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: me ask you this then, Okay, let's talk. Let's get

453
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 1: into this, because like my idea of like a wilderness

454
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 1: experience is being dropped off and like the frank or

455
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 1: the Frank Church or some wild place. I just I

456
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 1: don't really like to see other people when I'm in

457
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: the wilderness. But that is a very unique perspective of

458
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 1: the amount of people, the types people that use wilderness.

459
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: If you go to like the Red Rocks uh n

460
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: c A outside of Vegas Red Rocks, the Rainbow Canyon wilderness,

461
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 1: it is just like you think you're in a theme park.

462
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: There's so many people like hiking up and down the

463
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 1: trail and I mean it's just like a never ending

464
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 1: stream of national park. It is like people got speakers

465
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: or listening to music. It's like, but it's wilderness. Uh,

466
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,479
Speaker 1: to that designated wilderness, and for some people, they might

467
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: go like a hundred yards into that area, sit down,

468
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: kind of look at the mountains and be like I

469
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: love being in the wilderness, Like this is just so

470
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: much fun, And that's their wilderness experience. So that's why

471
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: I say it is kind of in the eye beholder,

472
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 1: like that is not what I would consider to be

473
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: a wilderness experience. But that's you know, But all right,

474
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 1: but is the organization? Are you guys involved in all

475
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: fifty states? No? Uh, most of them, Uh, certainly all

476
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 1: the Western States pretty much stays where's pub land, so

477
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 1: a heavy presidents in Alaska, all over the West, and

478
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 1: then on the East coast, uh, Maine, North Carolina, South Carolina,

479
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: all those beautiful national forests. We do do some work

480
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: in Michigan Sleeping Bare Dunes. Yeah, yeah, you're familiar with that. Yeah,

481
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: we worked on the rights off there. Man. Okay, um,

482
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: there's a wilderness bill they got designated there. What was

483
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: that not too long ago? Yeah, I can't remember the year. Um,

484
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: so yeah, so we work on We worked pretty much

485
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 1: anywhere there's a public land. Um. And you know, it's

486
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: not just I know wilderness is in our name, but

487
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 1: we work on public lands issues sort of rit large.

488
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 1: So it's not just we're not my optically focused on

489
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: just designate wilderness. It's like it's very it's much broader

490
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: than that. In fact, wilderness campaigns, you know, I worked

491
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 1: on a number of them over the years, but that's

492
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: a very small part of what we do. So what's

493
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: your guy, I know you like the HUBB, what's your

494
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 1: what's the organization's relationship to hunting? Are they adversarial to hunting? No?

495
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,199
Speaker 1: Do you have to like hide the fact that you'd

496
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: like to go hunting. No, not at all. No, that's

497
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 1: a fair question. I get a lot actually. Um, you know,

498
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: I was fortunate when I first started with Willdern Society.

499
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 1: I got hooked up with them. Out of college. I

500
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 1: went and worked. I was on I was on a

501
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: fish biology crew up the Sawtoos. Lived in the Sawtuo.

502
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 1: You were born in Idaho? Uh No, I actually wasn't,

503
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 1: but I moved it at host shortly after I was born.

504
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: Um like it's a little kid you got. Yeah, yeah, so,

505
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 1: uh but I lived in the Sawtoos in the white

506
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: clouds for a summer. Uh trap or shocking bull trout?

507
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: Looking for new populations of bull trout find any I did? Yeah,

508
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: swarn of secrecy. I can't tell you where they're at,

509
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: but I found some big ones, like you found a

510
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: population of bull trout that wasn't like on the map.

511
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: Several yeah really? Oh yeah. We would go place these

512
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 1: uh temperature what the hell they called little temperature sensors.

513
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: We go time zip time to like rocks and brush

514
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: and little creeks, and then we would go back. If

515
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: the temperature, the water temperature is a certain and a

516
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: certain within a certain range, of biologists would send us

517
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 1: back to go shock it because they knew you that

518
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: bull try don't exist. They like to spawn in a

519
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: certain temperature range. Um. So then we'd go, we'd hike.

520
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: I mean I would hike a car battery and like

521
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 1: two pairs like rubber boots, like deep into the wilderness. Um.

522
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 1: It was some of the most miserable work. I mean

523
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: I've done everything from picking up you know, dog excrement

524
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: for a living as a young kids, scraping and I'll

525
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 1: tell you what, man, when the mosquitoes and the horse

526
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: flies were like really bad and the ticks were really bad,

527
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 1: and you're like just trudging through brush all day off trail,

528
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: some of that thick stuff. It was. It was kind

529
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: of miserable. Um. At some point in time it sounded

530
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: like a dream job. When I got the job, I

531
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 1: was like, oh man, I'm in heaven. I got to

532
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: like hike every day and like shot fish. But then

533
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 1: like reality of it was like this is work. I

534
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 1: want to interject on two points. Yeah, I think I

535
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,439
Speaker 1: might have talked about both these. But I was in

536
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: the Philippines and I saw a subsistence fisherman who had

537
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: homemade shocking fish shocking rigs where they had car batteries.

538
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,479
Speaker 1: They made a backpack out of detergent bottles. So they

539
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: take a big, huge detergent bottle and cut the top

540
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: off put a car battery in there. And the shoulder

541
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 1: straps are made out of rope, and they had wands,

542
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 1: and they would go out on the rocks in the

543
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 1: river and just run those wands under the rocks. And

544
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: another guy would be on a rock downstream with a

545
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: net and they had shock up little shrimp and and

546
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 1: then cook him up. The second story is like, I

547
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 1: feel like this is sort of a story about a divinity.

548
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: Where my brother was shocking fish in the state of

549
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania when he was I think he might have been

550
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: in graduate school or doing small jobs on a head

551
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: of going to graduate school for ecology. He was shocking fish.

552
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: It was walking back from doing a sample on a stream,

553
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: and a bolt of lightning came out of the heavens

554
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: and struck the ground next to him, and the electricity

555
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: went up into the sack of fish and shocked his arm.

556
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:02,479
Speaker 1: Now that isn't like big Man saying, hey, taste your

557
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: old medicine, buddy, just so you know, just so you

558
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: know I'm watching the challenge of shocking was always like

559
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: finding the right voltage, right current, because you don't want to,

560
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: like you don't want to. You know, you could smoke

561
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: a beaver too, Like the bigger it is, the bigger

562
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: it is more the more it shocks. So you could

563
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: smoke turtles and beavers on accident, right yeah, oh yeah,

564
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 1: and I uh, I mean we can go deep into this.

565
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: But it was also like always you know, you are

566
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: trying to find the right voltage, and then I was

567
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: always surprised to do what have range but not be lethal. Correct, Yeah,

568
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: you want to stun them, but you don't want to

569
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: kill him, right, so you want to be able to

570
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: put them back. Um, we caught a ton of sculping.

571
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: There's like sculping all over those mountain streams if you

572
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: just don't know about you had no idea they were there,

573
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: so you don't catch them when you're fishing. Yeah, exactly. Um,

574
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: and big ones too. But you also catch some really

575
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: big fish that I wouldn't have guessed exists up in

576
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: some of those mountain streams. So like big game fish,

577
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: I mean for like cutthroat, Yeah, I mean big cutthroats

578
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: for you know you catch it. You have a little

579
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,719
Speaker 1: stream that's only like that wide and pulled out fourteen

580
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 1: inche cut through its And where's that? Where's that? Dude?

581
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: When I'm fishing? Yeah, I know right, because I'm like

582
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: catching these little guys. But uh so when I when

583
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: I I did that, got hooked up the Willers side,

584
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: you know. I mean I've always been um in a

585
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: hunting So I didn't really like I went to work

586
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: with the Willers side because I knew what they did,

587
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: but like I didn't have any like I wasn't worried

588
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: that like, oh man, I wonder if these guys like

589
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: you know are pro hunting. I knew they were pro hunting,

590
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: but I didn't really have any like Bob Marshall and

591
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: l Loopold. Yeah, maybe I was just naive. I didn't

592
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: realize there were folks that kind of had that opinion

593
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: of the Willdern side that maybe we're we're not a

594
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: group of sport of hunting. But where did the where

595
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: did that sense come from? For me? No? No, no,

596
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: if people have it, where did they get it? Oh?

597
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: You have to ask. It's like a high profile thing.

598
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: It was like what it was like a pissing match

599
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: about some sort of hunting activities on designated wilderness. Or

600
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: there's a lot of folks who just think conservation groups

601
00:30:53,640 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: in general are some you know, ultra liberal um conspiracy

602
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: to eventually take away hunting and fishing. Yeah, like that

603
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: dude that wrote to us suggesting that the Clintons put

604
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: wolves into Yellowstone as a way to disarm America because

605
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: the wolves would eat all the game and then no

606
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: one would have a reason to buy a gun anymore.

607
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: And it was a gun control measure. It's called the

608
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: long con the long game. Uh yeah, I mean, I

609
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: don't know, there's a lot of it's probably a lot

610
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: of reasons. I think Ryan's right. I think that like

611
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: just folks just generally, it's like you work on conservation,

612
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: you're just kind of suspect in general. Um. Yeah, but

613
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: it is possible, like it is true that some organizations, okay,

614
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: that maybe they'll maybe they even you know, you know,

615
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: we always had you Honestly, I had this ongoing discussion

616
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: about who gets to own the term environmentalists, Right, so

617
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: we have this so for a lots of we had

618
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: like we have like conservationists, like conservation and it has

619
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: a connotation or that has a sort of rings in

620
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: a certain way in people's minds. And it's a term

621
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: that for many, many many years, uh was you know,

622
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: a term of sort of describing a type of environmentalism,

623
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: um owned by hunters and fishermen. Okay, now you see

624
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: that like groups that were traditionally what might have identified

625
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: as environmental groups start to use the term conservation because

626
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: conservation has a more positive connotation in the America and

627
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: the popular American mind. People hear the word environmentalists, they

628
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: think radical. People hear the word conservation, and they think

629
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: that it's um, it's like more of a business friendly, pragmatic,

630
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: realistic form of environmentalism. And I think there's and this

631
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: isn't true. I mean it's not true across that it's

632
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: not true. It's not universally true. But it's like this,

633
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: the sort of wrestling matches has occurred around this word.

634
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: And I think that there are some groups, like I know,

635
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: for instance, like sierra clubs. So they'll do some stuff

636
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: around like you'll see Sierra club stuff where they'll have

637
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: a guy doing a little upland bird hunting. Right, You'll

638
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: be like hunting some pheasants and and and maybe a

639
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: guy like catches a trout and pokes a hole in

640
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: its face and lets it go, and that's like they're like, yeah,

641
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: you know, we're kind of cool with that, but you're

642
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: not gonna go on their website and find something to

643
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: a bit doing a grip and grind with a dead bull,

644
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: his tongue hanging out of his mouth. It's just they're

645
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: just not gonna go near it because they want to

646
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: sort of they want to kind of like not alienate

647
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: what they would call the hook and bullet crowd, but

648
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: they don't really want to embrace it either. And then

649
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: when an issue comes up, um, you'll often find that

650
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: they're on you know, you'll often find that there maybe

651
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: a little bit adversarial to state management of wildlife, and

652
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: they generally tend to side with hands off federalist approach

653
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: toward wildlife management. And so you'd say to the Sierra

654
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: Club guy, like, hey, are you guys anti hunting? Of

655
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: course not, we just had a guy holding a trout

656
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: on our website. But when you look at the mean,

657
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: you know that the average of activities that they've centered

658
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: themselves around, they haven't generally been friendly toward. Yeah, no,

659
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: and and I have a real I have a strong

660
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: I have a theory as well on this whole, like

661
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: environmental versus conservation the term like, how do you self describe?

662
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: Somebody asked you, hey, Steve conservationist, environmentalist, radical conservationist, radical conservationist. Yeah,

663
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: that's a good one. I've thought about that one. I

664
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 1: thought about options. Ce uh. You know if you say,

665
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 1: I mean the term the term environmental environmentalist has been

666
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 1: is that sort of a catch all phrase for folks

667
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: that are in the animal rights camp, to folks that

668
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: are in the sort of the more left flank of

669
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: the environmental world. So so, like, I can't tell you

670
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: how much I cringe when, like I see, like, you know,

671
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: animal rights group A is doing X, Y and z.

672
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: You know that they don't see animal rights. They say

673
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: the media is like an environmental group, you know, it's

674
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 1: you know, doing X, Y and Z. And I'm like,

675
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: they're not an environmental organization. They're animal rights organization. They're

676
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: focused on individual animals. That's exact really what they do.

677
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 1: That's all they really are focused on. Clueless about habitat,

678
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: clueless about long term They're like it if it's a

679
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: little bear and he has a name like pedals. They're

680
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: like that's who I'm That's what I'm looking out for.

681
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: Is that bear? Right, there's life expectancy of about three years.

682
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: And you know you also remember like Willdern Siety, like

683
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 1: our constituency are members, like we have a wide array

684
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: of members, right, so like it's not um, you know,

685
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: like while sportsman's organization might be like we only like

686
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 1: we represent like this one segment of the populations, like

687
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 1: our our constituency, it's like everybody from hikers, horseback riders,

688
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: you know, hunter fishermen, like mountain bikers, runners, and so

689
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: we try and be like, um, not trying to be

690
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 1: too offensive in our messaging to like uh, and we're

691
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: cognative like how we present what we do to everybody. UM.

692
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: So yeah, you're probably not gonna see a grip and

693
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: ground on our homepage. It just has nothing to do

694
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: with what you're talking about. Yeah, and it's not um,

695
00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:59,399
Speaker 1: but you're not. I canna see a grip and grin

696
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: out of vacuum cleaner web page here because it's like

697
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: it's it's not related to the best. Now that that said,

698
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: we have used I have there have been gripping rooms

699
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: of me and our media work. Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah,

700
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: um on various campaigns. In fact one uh one picture

701
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: it's like I didn't realize, but my hands were just

702
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: like I just got it was like a mule deer photo.

703
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: It's like me, it's just like blood kind of just

704
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: smattered about and like hands blood and I've got like

705
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: hands on the horns. And that ended up in some

706
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: of our our communications materials for a while. There's no

707
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: big blowback. No, I mean I don't see all the mail.

708
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: So as far as that, nobody told me if there was,

709
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 1: you know, so can I can I a see you

710
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: about one issue has nothing to do with hunting, Just

711
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: to get a sense of sort of how you guys

712
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 1: look at stuff. Are you familiar with this push that

713
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: people think that you should be. Let me bring the

714
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 1: listeners up to speed and then i'll ask the question

715
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 1: the way. So, so wilderness with a capital W like

716
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 1: federally designated worlderness areas. Um, you're not allowed to use

717
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: mechanized equipment and you're not allowed to use wheeled conveyances

718
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: on the land, so you can hike and use livestock.

719
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: This is generally true, Like it's very difficult you know

720
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: you can't land helicopters, land airplanes, uh, ride bikes, pull wagons,

721
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 1: any of the wheels, any of the motor but I

722
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: know that like mountain bikers are all fired up about

723
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:26,919
Speaker 1: that they can't go ripping around on their mountain bikes

724
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: through a wilderness. Tell me you, guys, what where is

725
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: your guys stance on that? I got strong opinion on

726
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: that one. See uh I used to raise mountain bikes.

727
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: Still coming from a mountain biker, I don't. Yeah, I

728
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: mean I self identify as like a recreational mountain biker

729
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: now for sure. Um and uh yeah, I mean we're

730
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 1: strongly opposed to it. Yeah, I mean like guys going

731
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 1: twenty five Yeah, a long trails. You're not why like

732
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: their thing is like, oh we enjoy the area. It's

733
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: just like just enjoy it somewhere else. Yeah, there's plenty

734
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 1: of places to go, real, I asked on wheeled conveyances. Yeah,

735
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: I do not feel like I need to as a

736
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: mountain breker. I don't feel like you need to be

737
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: able to take my mountain bike anywhere. You know. I

738
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: don't feel like you have to feel a ride a

739
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: motorcycle everywhere. I feel like there's kind of like a

740
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 1: everybody has their place in the landscape. You just got

741
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: to like figure out, you know, where those uses can occur.

742
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: And percent of the country is fairly designated wilderness, uh

743
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: two two point six percent, So there's a lot of ground.

744
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 1: There's a lot of ground out there for bike riding.

745
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: You could say there was of the America, Like mountain

746
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: bikers are like, yeah, I know, like I can ride

747
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: my bike on nineties seven percent of the American land mask,

748
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 1: but that's just not enough for me. I gotta have

749
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: it all, man, I need it. Yeah. Yeah, it dries

750
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: to be crazy. I can't ride my bike anywhere I want. Yeah, No,

751
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: it's it's a guys. You guys pushing a bit pushed

752
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: back on that. Yeah, I mean we uh yeah, I

753
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: mean that is very much a direct like assault on

754
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: the Wilderness Act. I mean to intent the intent of

755
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: the wilderness. Well, how do you how do you I

756
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: mean draw that? I mean, if you know anything about

757
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: mountain bikes, you know that the line between electronic motorcycle

758
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: and mountain bikes is incredibly blurry. With these new e

759
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 1: bikes assist bikes, um and you can even hide now

760
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 1: you can hide like an electronic assist motor in like

761
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 1: the tube of your bike. That's what I heard people

762
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: are doing. Yeah, and so you couldn't you look at

763
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 1: it if you're like trying to enforce it's like you

764
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: look at your likes. Just look like a mountain bike

765
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: to me. But the guy's got a motor in there, um,

766
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: and you can go I mean a charge, I'll get you.

767
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: I mean you can go back. So you're hunting, you

768
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 1: can go back like twelve fifteen miles and your bike

769
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,359
Speaker 1: no problem, not a ton of effort. Um. So that

770
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 1: line is really blurry. So if you allow, like you know,

771
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 1: mountain bikes, and what's next, you know, like what's the

772
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 1: case against like motorcycles a TV. It's like so it

773
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: kind of just cuts at the core of like why

774
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: do we even have wilderness. If you're going to start allowing,

775
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: you have to drop it is controversial, but you do

776
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 1: have to kind of draw a line somewhere. The line

777
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: is not that blurry if you're the poor fool that

778
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: it's got a sixty five pound pack who just uped

779
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: at fifteen mile back in there and you come some

780
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: blow hard out of fat tire bike. Yeah, I tell

781
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,839
Speaker 1: you that's pretty crystal clear. So one thing I'll say

782
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: about the whole mountain bike and wilderness thing is that,

783
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: you know, just this is my personal view of the

784
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: whole situation. Is you know, there was a relatively high profile,

785
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 1: high controversial designation in Idaho around the Bolt of White

786
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: Clouds Wilderness. Um. I worked on that campaign, and uh

787
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 1: it was it was uh an end to a very

788
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,280
Speaker 1: It was like a four decade long campaign basically, and

789
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: I did a backpack hunting there with my my older

790
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: brother and to this one area where there was some

791
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 1: controversy around which we you know, leave this trail open

792
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: or not. And I have to tell you, like I

793
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: kind of tried to go out with the open mind

794
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 1: and just like go to the area and kind of

795
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 1: experience it and see, just try and see how it

796
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 1: would be with mountain bikes. And I came away with

797
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 1: just personally feeling like they just absolutely didn't belong in

798
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: that area. It was a wild place and if you

799
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: had you know, guys and gals just ripping down this

800
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 1: trail all day long, it would make it feel even

801
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: though I had to go like whatever, it was like

802
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 1: seven miles again back in there, that it would make

803
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: it feel like I was just like in my backyard, um,

804
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: because there's just people everywhere. Um. So it's kind of

805
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: a subjective thing, but just for me personally, it's like

806
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: there's some places where it's just okay to just walk,

807
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: you know, but it's not. It's not really subjective. We

808
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:23,439
Speaker 1: look at what the like they kind of spell out

809
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: pretty clearly, like what it is. Yeah, oh yeah, there's

810
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: no room in the wilderness sack form. But they were

811
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: talking about drawing the boundaries kind of Oh I'm sorry,

812
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: like in that case, yeah, how are you gonna draw it? Yeah,

813
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: I mean, the the argument here is is we want

814
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: people to appreciate these places, and if your preferred means

815
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: of access is by a mountain bike, you aren't going

816
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 1: to go in and and uh uh see these areas

817
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: and therefore appreciate them and want to I want to

818
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: be around a long term is uh kind of the

819
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,359
Speaker 1: flip side of the argument. And all these lands are

820
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: managed for everybody, um, lots of different user groups out there.

821
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: It's got to be space for everyone. Um so yeah,

822
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: I mean there's a big The mountain bike community around

823
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,760
Speaker 1: catch Them was certainly up in arms over the fact

824
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: that um this Germania isn't it. Germania is open still,

825
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 1: Germania is open trailers because they're pissed about having lost accident.

826
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 1: There like a spot that um they used to be

827
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 1: able to go and now they can't. Right. Yeah, that

828
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: rails people up more than the continuation of of a closure. Yeah,

829
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,720
Speaker 1: that's that's kinda I was talking with somebody about this recently.

830
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 1: I don't know if you and I cal but like

831
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 1: that's true just in politics in general. Right, It's like

832
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,359
Speaker 1: you've got people know when they don't know as much

833
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: who gives them a benefit, but they sure as he'll

834
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: remember who takes some away from him. So you take

835
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,839
Speaker 1: some away from somebody, they're gonna remember you. Politicians know that, right.

836
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: So it's like same thing. It's like I don't know

837
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: who gave me that mountain bike trail, but like you

838
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 1: take it away, like I'm gonna remember who you are.

839
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 1: So hey, real quick before we get back into what,

840
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: remind to me, Like what's the hike you guys do? Oh?

841
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,760
Speaker 1: The death hike? Yeah, tell me the death hike? Yeah?

842
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 1: Are you coming this year? I don't think I am

843
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,399
Speaker 1: not knock. I'm kno because I'm chicken. I just don't

844
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,760
Speaker 1: think I am so just various obligates. Yes, I remember

845
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 1: when I talked about it. I wasn't it didn't line

846
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: up with what I had going on. Uh, this is

847
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: something that Ryan really wants to try and do this

848
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: year too, right, I was gonna say it. I'm busy.

849
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: I don't believe in the Rand's like, what are you're

850
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: going hiking? Just to go hike? So spell, what's the walk?

851
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: It's not my I think it's my My buddy Steve

852
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,240
Speaker 1: puts it on. It's called the Death Hike, and uh,

853
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 1: it's essentially like, uh, last year we got dropped off

854
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 1: in Chamberlain Base from the Frank and it was like

855
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: a four. Yeah, we call it the Frank Uh. And

856
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 1: we got dropped in Chamberlain Base and was kind of

857
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 1: in the middle of the Frank Church and then hiked out.

858
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 1: It's like dropped off via airplane. It was like a

859
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 1: landing strip in there. Eighteen air strips in the Frank Church.

860
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 1: There were grandfather into that wilderness area. Um really eighteen

861
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: in the Frank Church or seven seventeen or eighteen. Yeah, yeah,

862
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,439
Speaker 1: I got place is huge, it's massive. Um yeah, it's

863
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:05,800
Speaker 1: well you, especially if you can bin it the Sullway

864
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,320
Speaker 1: in the frank together. It's like the in the Lower

865
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 1: forty it's the biggest contiguous wilderness in Lower forty eight.

866
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 1: So I feel like two places claim that who's that?

867
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,359
Speaker 1: What's the other one? The um Bob Marshall scapegoat all

868
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:22,839
Speaker 1: that they're wrong? Yeah, North Fork as a contiguous I've

869
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: never heard that the it's not a spotted bear, Bob scapegoat.

870
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 1: Bob Marshall Wilderness complex is contiguous UM two point two

871
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: million acres total. Yes, yeah, I'm pretty sure that's quite

872
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: a bit smaller than the ash of the contiguous wilderness AIS.

873
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: We're gonna hash this out later, Ryan, respect to wilderness.

874
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:52,399
Speaker 1: You bring your stats. I'll bring my stats big as

875
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: big as you fly in. We got flun in and

876
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: it was like the whole point is that you just

877
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: hike out. You know, it's kind of as as quick

878
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: as you can, and so you just go light, you know,

879
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 1: bring like a pack, no tens of sleeping bag. And

880
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,240
Speaker 1: this last year I got pretty uh got pretty western

881
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 1: because you know, the first we walked like, I don't know,

882
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: like twenty six miles for which isn't too bad you

883
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: gotta light pack. And then we camped on this peak,

884
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 1: and then the next day we had to drop into

885
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 1: the south Fork of the Salmon River corridor and then

886
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: climb back out. Um. Well it's six thousand vertical down

887
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: to the south Fork of the Salmon and sixty five

888
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: back up. Um. And if you've never dropped that much

889
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: and then climb back out that much like, it's a lot.

890
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: And so as you're going down and starts getting hotter

891
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 1: and hotter and hotter, the rattlesnakes are coming out. So

892
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 1: by the time we get down to the south Fork

893
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: with the Salmon, we're probably thirty eight miles in. Um.

894
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: A few hours of sleep, and you know, everybody brought

895
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 1: just real minimal food. And then a couple of guys

896
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: um kinda out. Let's see, they thought they were tougher

897
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 1: than they were. Think. It's an easy way to say it. Um,

898
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 1: that's a hard hike if you're coming, especially if you're

899
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,320
Speaker 1: not used to elevation, right, and guys are starting to

900
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 1: fall apart at this point in time. You got blisters,

901
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 1: real bad guys. Feet are just getting torn up. Those

902
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,800
Speaker 1: guys are going down first, um, and then you've got

903
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:11,839
Speaker 1: heat exjoshtion is getting real serious and a few guys too.

904
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: You guys are puking. It couldn't hold down water and

905
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 1: we still have to climb up out of the canyon.

906
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,879
Speaker 1: Um And there really there was two options at that point,

907
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 1: like one guy, you go down and take a jet

908
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 1: boat out or climb back out. And three of us,

909
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 1: realizing how kind of the general feeling in the group,

910
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 1: were like, well, the trucks are at the top of

911
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: this next mountain, so we're we'll go hike to the

912
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: top and then we'll drive down this ridge and we

913
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:33,919
Speaker 1: send everybody else down to this this other spot, which

914
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: was like shorter distance and not as much climbing, and

915
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 1: uh it ended up I think it ended up being

916
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: forty six or forty seven miles, got out right about dark,

917
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 1: and uh it was And how many hours did it

918
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 1: take you guys to go forty seven miles? Uh, let's see,

919
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: I can't remember. It was like we got dropped off

920
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: around like midday, hiked all the way until dark, and

921
00:46:57,719 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: then got up early next day and got out of dark.

922
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:01,879
Speaker 1: What is they like thirty six hours something like that.

923
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 1: So it's not an incredibly fast pace like a good

924
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 1: ultra runner could do that no problem. But um, I

925
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 1: think just with a heat distance elevation, everything kind of

926
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: got to a lot of people. The real the real

927
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 1: pisser was though, as we were climbing up out of

928
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: South Fork Salmon Corridor, I started getting into like nine

929
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 1: bark brush country, so brushy under undergrowth, and it was

930
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 1: a burn so there's like logs down. Oh that's the

931
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 1: other part of the story is like there wasn't really

932
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 1: a trail for the last like half the trip, so

933
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:33,240
Speaker 1: you're just go crawling over deadfall for like half that mileage,

934
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 1: which is not fun. And then the snakes, the rattlesnakes

935
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 1: started showing up, So I started like almost stepping on

936
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: rattlesnakes and that nine bark brush and down timber and

937
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 1: I'm not a fan of snakes, and so like that

938
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: was when I that was not a fun situation for me.

939
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 1: Um almost stepped on two rattlesnakes, came real close to him.

940
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: It's a nice little hike, nice little hike. And uh,

941
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 1: like a few guys found religion that night. I'm serious.

942
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 1: There were some guys that were like worshiping a snake gods.

943
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 1: They were happy to be alive. Like one guy, I

944
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 1: thought for sure I was gonna have to go. I

945
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 1: thought you might as get met it backed out like

946
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: he was. How many people started the hike, they were

947
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,720
Speaker 1: thirteen of us. Last week people finished it just ready

948
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: to rock. How many people finished four of I think

949
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 1: four of us finished that weren't puking, four or five

950
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 1: of us and weren't puking or kind of like really struggling.

951
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,439
Speaker 1: So I just want to check on that real quick.

952
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 1: We're doing it again this year, different hike, different hike though, Yeah,

953
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,399
Speaker 1: when might come to do that? Sometimes that sounds fun.

954
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 1: So the poisoners, I want to do the rim to

955
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 1: rim to rim You you heard of that one? No,

956
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 1: that sounds pretty all the way down to the bottom,

957
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: up to this side, turn around, come back and do

958
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:42,319
Speaker 1: it again. They probably look at our hike to be like,

959
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: that's cute. We do that for a warm up. There's

960
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 1: the thing ends up being forty seven miles and the

961
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: goal is to do it stub four. That's that's some

962
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 1: coyote stuff right there. I mean I felt like we could.

963
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: What I would like to do is just like keep going.

964
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: That's a nice trail. The whole way I mean super

965
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: it makes a big difference. Yeah, it's like when you don't,

966
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 1: when you're not, when you have to concentrate on where

967
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: what's going. That doesn't make it easy. No, no, no,

968
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's easy, but I'm saying when you

969
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 1: don't have to be like, we're gonna put my foot,

970
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: we're'm gonna put my foot, We're gonna put my foot

971
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 1: every time you take a step. It's a lot different

972
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 1: when you're crawling, like you know, like dead fall, like

973
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 1: stacked on each other, you know. In fact, I saw

974
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:21,399
Speaker 1: a monster bowl right about the time I started seeing

975
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 1: the snakes, and uh, I knew exactly. I was like,

976
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 1: this is a good looking area for elk. I start

977
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:27,720
Speaker 1: seeing a lot of elks and saw a huge bowl

978
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: and this is like what is this July? And I

979
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 1: was like, I don't care. I'll never come back here.

980
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 1: I'll never come back here. It's like not worth it.

981
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: So we covered up. We covered you guys and bikes,

982
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,280
Speaker 1: which wasn't working to top about now talk about you guys.

983
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:47,919
Speaker 1: Here's the main thing I want to talk about, um

984
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: is is your findings and your work around the federal

985
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:58,800
Speaker 1: land transfer debate, which is this ongoing thing that comes

986
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: up often this digital radio program, and comes up often

987
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 1: in American society. You know, it comes up and then

988
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 1: goes away and takes a decade off, and it comes

989
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 1: back again. And right now we're kind of in the

990
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: worst of it that we've seen, I think in the

991
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 1: in the modern era. Um, the worst of it we've

992
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 1: seen since uh Teddy Roosevelt fought tooth and nail to

993
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:30,280
Speaker 1: establish our federal land management system. Um, it's the worst

994
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 1: like affront to that we've seen, which is going on

995
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: right now the last few years is unparalleled efforts to

996
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: force the federal government to dispose of your public land

997
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing grounds. UM. And you guys are one

998
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: of many groups battling this and the thing that I

999
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: want to talk to you about. They're not just hunging

1000
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 1: fishing grounds, right, No, that's what I think of them as. Yeah,

1001
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 1: it's in Corton bird watching grounds. I don't fill in

1002
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:04,800
Speaker 1: your favorite thing. That's just how I view whatever floats

1003
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 1: your boat. I'm talking to man that I'm talking to

1004
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: many the kind of Joe blows that that are listening

1005
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: to us. But yeah, federal public, federally managed public, just

1006
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 1: in case there's someone else. It's like in the bad

1007
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 1: all right. So if there's someone else, he has no

1008
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: ability to like imagine thinking broad strokes. Yes, Johnny rattle

1009
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: off a list of activities that one might participate in

1010
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 1: on federally managed public lands. General water sports. Okay, you're

1011
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:36,799
Speaker 1: federally managed water sports locations. Uh Um. When I say

1012
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,879
Speaker 1: fairly managed, that's important because when people say like federally owned,

1013
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 1: like the federal everment doesn't own the land, Okay, what

1014
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 1: it is is the the the American people, right, the

1015
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 1: citizens of the United States on the land, and their trustee,

1016
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:56,799
Speaker 1: like the person that we have, you know, dedicated to

1017
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 1: managing them on our behalf. In many cases multiple use

1018
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: landscapes is the federal garment. So that's why we were

1019
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 1: saying federally managed public lands. And a big part of

1020
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: this debate like a way that the people who want

1021
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 1: to ditch federal managed lands um one are generally motivated

1022
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: by they want unfettered access to extract mineral resources. Like

1023
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 1: if you eliminated if you eliminated the pool of people,

1024
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 1: the pool of this very small pool a very wealthy

1025
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: and very influential individuals who want less cumbersome a less

1026
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 1: cumbersome pathway to extracting mineral resources and making boatloads of

1027
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:47,240
Speaker 1: money off it. If you remove those people, we wouldn't

1028
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:51,320
Speaker 1: be having this conversation. That's not Brad talking as me talking.

1029
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 1: It's generally what this is about. In a way that

1030
00:52:55,200 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 1: they push this agenda is they feel that um, rather

1031
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,319
Speaker 1: than saying we want to privatize it, what they what

1032
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,359
Speaker 1: they say is that we want to hand it over

1033
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:08,720
Speaker 1: to state management. And they'll do like, oh yeah, because

1034
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: locals no best and so they want to hand over

1035
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: to state management. But states, unlike the federal government, aren't

1036
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 1: in the large scale land management business, and states oftentimes

1037
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: because of their own constitutions can't uh can't run an

1038
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 1: unbalanced budget, right, so if they have a deficit, they

1039
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 1: need to liquidate assets, and what often happens is they

1040
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 1: liquidate lands. So when people are talking about handing federal

1041
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 1: land over to the states, it's like code language for

1042
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: the gradual what will become the gradual privatization of land

1043
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 1: that now belongs to the American people. It's open access,

1044
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 1: and what they know is whether it goes to the

1045
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 1: states or whether eventually riinds up being privatized. It will have, Um,

1046
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: it will be a greasier, easier path towards some people

1047
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 1: monetizing resources on that land. You cool with all that

1048
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 1: sounds good? All right? A thing people say is they say, no,

1049
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,439
Speaker 1: that's not true because the states they'll do a better job.

1050
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 1: All right. Does that sounds like a thing people say

1051
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 1: it does? Yep? What about Brad like take that take

1052
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 1: it from that point and explain what you have found

1053
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 1: as you guys have looked into state versus federal management

1054
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 1: and is it really just the same thing but a

1055
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 1: different name when the land goes to the states. Yeah,

1056
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:42,840
Speaker 1: So it's part of our work. You know. We realized

1057
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,320
Speaker 1: too when we would uh, you know, do some polling

1058
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 1: on folks like how do you feel about this issue?

1059
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 1: People would be like, I like land. You know, they

1060
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 1: don't really understand like the difference between state federal county.

1061
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:56,920
Speaker 1: It's all just land that they can use, right, So

1062
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:01,800
Speaker 1: to try and really uh help people understand the difference

1063
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 1: between state and public land. Um, we we've done a

1064
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: series a series of work that kind of shined a

1065
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: light on kind of the difference between state and public land,

1066
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 1: and uh done a series of reports when we to

1067
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 1: in Idaho, and focused on state land sales. Just like

1068
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: what's the track record of Western states with managing and

1069
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: selling land? Um And a couple of portant things like

1070
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 1: you mentioned some of them. There's like the difference in

1071
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 1: maximum revenue generation that states, all Western states have an

1072
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 1: obligation by their constitution to abide versus the multiple use

1073
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 1: mandate a public land federally managed, federally managed public land, yeah,

1074
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,359
Speaker 1: um so. And the other thing we found is that

1075
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 1: you know that you know, states have a long history

1076
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:50,719
Speaker 1: of selling off their lands, and there is you know,

1077
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 1: if I was gonna it was another book idea for it.

1078
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: You could write a whole book on the corruption about

1079
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 1: how state lands have been disposed in the West. It

1080
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 1: is a fascinating tale, as I sort of got in

1081
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:04,479
Speaker 1: a candidac desert, but about public exactly. Yeah, no, for sure,

1082
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: Like um so, in Idaho, for example, like the state

1083
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 1: is you know, liquidated its state lands. Um you all

1084
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 1: know Nevadas like ninety nine point eight percent of its

1085
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 1: public lands. Back up, back up. A couple of things

1086
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 1: here of the state land, of the land that the

1087
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:25,799
Speaker 1: state of Nevada has owned, they have liquidated. It's like

1088
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:28,879
Speaker 1: it's all but they have three thousand acres of state

1089
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:32,720
Speaker 1: land left out of the when every state was formed.

1090
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys have talked about this

1091
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 1: school trust land school trust but there were other lands too,

1092
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 1: So the state was given lands for UH public uses,

1093
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 1: so that include hospitals, to benefit hospitals, UH schools. The

1094
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 1: vast majority of federal lands given to states when they

1095
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 1: became states was to be used for the benefit of

1096
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 1: UH schools. They calling down and oftentimes I'm not sure

1097
00:56:56,120 --> 00:57:00,280
Speaker 1: this is universal, but oftentimes would be one set action

1098
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 1: out of every thirty six. So if you had a

1099
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 1: six six by six square mile chunk land, one of

1100
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 1: those one section would be like what what some states

1101
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 1: would call or in some times, I guess probably in

1102
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: some periods of American history, those parcels were described as

1103
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 1: school trust lands, and it would be that the state

1104
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 1: could use revenues from that to finance public education. And

1105
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 1: some states would just literally they just get it and

1106
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 1: then sell it and be like they're done. Or some

1107
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 1: states would use it and lease out grazing rights on

1108
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 1: it or mining things on it, or some states would

1109
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 1: do trades swaps and instead of having one loan section

1110
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 1: out of thirty six. They would do swaps in order

1111
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 1: to get a contiguous block of a bunch of sections

1112
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 1: and then do whatever to monetize it. Some states on

1113
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 1: those lands, like Montana, Um, it's pretty open, like like

1114
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: on state lands, a lot to do certain activities. Other

1115
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 1: states really curtail the activities you can do on like

1116
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 1: state lands in Colorado you can't camp overnight. There are

1117
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 1: some states that don't even allow hunting on state public

1118
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 1: so their state lands are not public land. No, no,

1119
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 1: I mean you got to. I canna show you pictures

1120
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 1: from like New Mexico and Idaho, like signs that say

1121
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 1: you know, property State of Idaho, keep out like they're

1122
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 1: all over the place. Um so so yeah, no, state

1123
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 1: land is definitely not public And when you start looking

1124
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 1: at the history too, so each state was given these lands.

1125
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 1: Some states got a better deal. The must have been

1126
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:29,720
Speaker 1: better negotiators. Like New Mexico got like I think it's

1127
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 1: like every like six thirty second. They got more land.

1128
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 1: They like twelve million acres. They were given a statehood.

1129
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 1: Um what they do all New Mexico is sold off

1130
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 1: I want to say, like four and a half million

1131
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 1: acres of their state lands. So they still have some

1132
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: of it sold all theirs vir Texas all together in

1133
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 1: the West, like their states have disposed of thirty million

1134
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 1: acres of state land to date, and a lot of

1135
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 1: states like have as a part of their their management portfolio.

1136
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 1: You remember, their mandated to make money. They have you know,

1137
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: real estate, you know investment as a part of that.

1138
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 1: They're what they do, so that includes you know, selling

1139
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 1: buying land. Um. So we like Utah for example, like

1140
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 1: Utah has like massive planned communities on state land. I

1141
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 1: mean I'm talking about massive plan communities too, So you're

1142
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 1: talking about like that's built already that they are in

1143
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 1: the process of building. Like they're like in the land

1144
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 1: development business. Like go to St. George, Like you can

1145
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 1: find us all on their website too. It's like not

1146
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 1: hard to find, but you're not a St. George. You

1147
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:39,040
Speaker 1: have this massive plan community. I'm talking like golf courses,

1148
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 1: like you know, strip malls, like houses. Like imagine like

1149
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 1: if you were at your favorite hunting hole and that

1150
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 1: little like spot of ground outside of St. George and

1151
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 1: they're like next, you know, come back like two years

1152
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:51,919
Speaker 1: later and you're like, holy hell, there's a golf course.

1153
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 1: Rather they somehow dug it out and made it that

1154
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:01,520
Speaker 1: it was a hole in the earth the golf course

1155
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 1: on of that man. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. O god,

1156
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 1: it's just like yeah, so so those are one out

1157
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:11,800
Speaker 1: and beating around little balls to be like, oh, mine's

1158
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 1: close to the whole. If it's even closer to the whole.

1159
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that people like that. I just can't

1160
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 1: even bring your dog. I can't not understand, like, oh look,

1161
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 1: oh bye bye by the whole. So I tell you're

1162
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 1: not a golfer gold. I cannot understand it. But nuts

1163
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 1: and bolts of this issue comes down to um or.

1164
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 1: They say, it always comes down, well, who's going to

1165
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 1: manage it better? So you know, I have buddies that

1166
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 1: are state foresters and Montana taking a lot of pride

1167
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: in their work, and they point at the fads and say, oh,

1168
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 1: we're doing a better job than those guys are. Um

1169
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 1: I think what always always gets lost in the shuffle

1170
01:00:56,080 --> 01:01:01,920
Speaker 1: is the federally managed lands are managed for everyone, and

1171
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 1: the state managed lands they have typically one objective, which

1172
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 1: is make us some money. Can up real quick. Just

1173
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:14,200
Speaker 1: to clarify that my old man was a golfer. My

1174
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 1: dear bygone father was a golfer. So I don't want

1175
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 1: to you know, I don't want to speak ill of

1176
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 1: the dead. Your dad did, so, Like what kind of

1177
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 1: golfer are we talking about? He remember he had a

1178
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 1: three He had a three wheeled Harley Davidson golf cart.

1179
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 1: I tell you that that's interesting. Um, anyways, you're talking

1180
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:34,920
Speaker 1: about the FEDS. No, I think you're right though, it's

1181
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 1: not that. And the point isn't that state lands are bad.

1182
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's not like, oh, state lands are bad

1183
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 1: now they serve a purpose. But the question is like,

1184
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 1: would you want all public land to go over to

1185
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:48,920
Speaker 1: that bucket where you're taking What you're doing in that

1186
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 1: bucket has a propensity to tip over and get emptied? Yeah? Clear,

1187
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 1: Like look at the records, Like people are like, no,

1188
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 1: it wouldn't get sold if it looks turns to state

1189
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 1: And I'm that's why we're doing this. A lot of sporks,

1190
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 1: Like people say, who's saying that? Why do I hear

1191
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 1: that from so many people? Well, because they're like, you know,

1192
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 1: they're I have a I have a way to say it,

1193
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 1: but it's probably not appropriate for your podcast. What is it?

1194
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 1: I think they're full of ship? Um, I mean it's

1195
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:15,440
Speaker 1: like no, I mean, they're just I think it's dishonest, right,

1196
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:18,240
Speaker 1: And that's what we try to point out. It's like, um,

1197
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 1: you're saying that the states won't sell it, but then

1198
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 1: I'm looking over here at the data and the real

1199
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:26,240
Speaker 1: estate transaction and low and behold, like it's been sold.

1200
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 1: It gets sold every year. Like, so should I believe

1201
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 1: what you say or what's actually happened over the last

1202
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 1: you know, a hundred plus year history of state land management.

1203
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:35,959
Speaker 1: What I heard the other day was well, why don't

1204
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 1: we try something new and just like we transfer them,

1205
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 1: but then we write in this rule that says they

1206
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 1: can't they're not state trust and they're not gonna be sold,

1207
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:48,000
Speaker 1: they're not there to make money that they should be

1208
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 1: actually kept as public. Yeah, that's that's where this whole.

1209
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 1: So this issue is kind of like an amba. It's

1210
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 1: like just shape shifting, Like yeah, it's like oh, the

1211
01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 1: dodging Bullet's like, okay, we don't want to sell you

1212
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,000
Speaker 1: public lands. Well we'll keep public lands public. Let's just

1213
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:06,640
Speaker 1: like give all the management control to some county officials

1214
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 1: and like the timber industry and the mining industry, how

1215
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 1: does that say with you. So it's the same thing

1216
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 1: in some ways, it's even worse. Right, It's like you're

1217
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 1: telling me that we're gonna keep public land public, but

1218
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 1: we're gonna take all the decision making authority out of

1219
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:21,520
Speaker 1: the public hands. And I mean I'm talking about theoretical bills.

1220
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 1: These are actual bills that are in Congress right now. Um,

1221
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 1: that would seed management authority to a selector for people.

1222
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:29,600
Speaker 1: So it's it's like, yeah, like that. There's like the

1223
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 1: recent piece, so there was a build, it was dismissed

1224
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 1: or withdrawn. There was just telling the Department of the Interior,

1225
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:42,200
Speaker 1: um like a mandate to the to the Secretary of

1226
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 1: Interior that he had to dispose of three million acres.

1227
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 1: And then there was a sort of a cousin or

1228
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 1: sister piece of legislation to that that would strip away

1229
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 1: law enforcement capabilities still around. Oh yeah, the strip law

1230
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 1: enforcement capability is away from federal agencies, so that the

1231
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 1: BLM didn't have a law enforcement division. And when you

1232
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:10,800
Speaker 1: get into that stuff, that's just being like, uh I

1233
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 1: I equated it at one point too. Uh. Me and

1234
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:16,240
Speaker 1: my wife have an argument about whether or not a

1235
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 1: dishwasher is good to have or not okay, And I say, like,

1236
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:25,400
Speaker 1: it was less efficient and doesn't work as well is

1237
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:28,720
Speaker 1: washing it by hand, And my wife'ss no, no, no, no,

1238
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:33,320
Speaker 1: washing it by hand is less efficient and doesn't work

1239
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:37,440
Speaker 1: as well as the dishwasher. If I were to go

1240
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 1: in and disable the dishwasher some way, like like screw

1241
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:45,240
Speaker 1: up the dishwasher in order to make my idea, in

1242
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 1: order to make my argument more true. Right, That's what

1243
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 1: when people do this stuff, like the law enforcement thing,

1244
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 1: they're so pissed and blinded buy like hatred of federal

1245
01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 1: land management that they're like, yeah, but it doesn't work

1246
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:01,160
Speaker 1: this way. It doesn't work this way. And people are like, no,

1247
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 1: it actually works pretty well. If you look at the alternative,

1248
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:06,160
Speaker 1: it's like oh no, no, because wait, when I strip

1249
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 1: away law enforcement capabilities from these agencies, then you'll see

1250
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 1: that it doesn't work. See what happens then, Yeah, now

1251
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 1: I'll tell me it doesn't work because I'm going in

1252
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:18,000
Speaker 1: and sabotaging the whole system to make what I say true.

1253
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:19,960
Speaker 1: In this way, when there is a bunch of crime

1254
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:23,120
Speaker 1: on federal land, I can go see, see, you guys

1255
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:25,320
Speaker 1: don't know how to manage Well, that's what's been going

1256
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:28,600
Speaker 1: on physical, Oh, it's been going on for years. That

1257
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 1: might go sabotage my dishwasher and then be like, Hi,

1258
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 1: the dishwasher doesn't work. Told you be careful with that

1259
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 1: one fire? Uh yeah, no, I mean it's like, uh,

1260
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:40,160
Speaker 1: I think you know, if you just look at the

1261
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:43,200
Speaker 1: trajectory of this issue, like it is moving away from

1262
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 1: We're at a point now where where it's becoming less

1263
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:50,800
Speaker 1: popular to be pro sell off public lands, right because

1264
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:53,680
Speaker 1: people are like calling truth to the bullshit. Man. Oh yeah,

1265
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 1: they pulled this stuff for a long time, but just

1266
01:05:56,120 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 1: people really like woken up to it. Yeah, but now

1267
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:02,360
Speaker 1: it's becoming issue. It hasn't gone away. I think the

1268
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:05,479
Speaker 1: folks are pushing has become smarter, more savvy, and they're

1269
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:07,880
Speaker 1: really pushing this like death of a thousand cuts of

1270
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:10,760
Speaker 1: public land management. Right. So it's about all right, we're

1271
01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 1: not gonna get there, we're not gonna get the big prize,

1272
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:15,000
Speaker 1: so let's focus on all these other things that can

1273
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 1: undercut the idea of public lands. It's like what animal

1274
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:21,360
Speaker 1: rights people due to hunters? Yeah, yeah, for sure, not

1275
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 1: gonna get a law that there's no hunting, right. But

1276
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:27,919
Speaker 1: that's like what we probably could ban hunting lions with dogs, right, Yeah,

1277
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 1: we probably couldn't ban some like trapping. Right. So then

1278
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:32,920
Speaker 1: you got these bills where yeah, it's like bills like

1279
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:36,720
Speaker 1: uh um reboul laborador or my my congressman has one

1280
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:39,800
Speaker 1: called Self Sufficient Community Lands Act. It's like up to

1281
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:42,640
Speaker 1: four million acres of land in any state can be

1282
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:46,440
Speaker 1: given to it stays public according to the bill. Um,

1283
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:50,200
Speaker 1: but there are like it waves all conservation environmental laws

1284
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 1: and gives decision making it authority like four people like

1285
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:56,800
Speaker 1: a county commissioner because somebody from them logging the mining industry,

1286
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 1: and somebody from the timber industry, and like a motorized

1287
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:02,440
Speaker 1: recreation person. So in some ways it's you know, I

1288
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 1: feel that I almost view that as like more insulting. Um.

1289
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 1: So you're like, oh no, we're gonna keep it public,

1290
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:09,840
Speaker 1: but like you have no saying anymore. Motion multiple used

1291
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:11,520
Speaker 1: to like single use, but this is the same one

1292
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:14,520
Speaker 1: where the if in the event of a major catastrophe,

1293
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:18,480
Speaker 1: the fed federal government pay us for it. So the people,

1294
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:20,400
Speaker 1: oh yeah, so yeah, we still pay it for like

1295
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:23,240
Speaker 1: firefighting and everything. So we're like your tax dollars still

1296
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:26,880
Speaker 1: like footing the bill for like roads, infrastructure and everything.

1297
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:29,640
Speaker 1: So how does that But isn't that what what kind

1298
01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:32,560
Speaker 1: of like what wound up happening with Wyoming? Whereas Wyoming

1299
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:35,200
Speaker 1: looked at this idea, like because because of the what's

1300
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:38,120
Speaker 1: being discussed, the state of Wyoming took a look at

1301
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 1: like what would it mean for us if we were

1302
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 1: to assume management of the federal land that they're talking about,

1303
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:50,720
Speaker 1: And they looked at just the firefighting budget alone and decided,

1304
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 1: you know what, I think we're gonna pass on this

1305
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 1: one bankrupt And he's I mean a big fire would

1306
01:07:55,640 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 1: wipe us out. So yeah, like put the like financial terms, like, uh,

1307
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:03,040
Speaker 1: State of Idaho last this is not loud. This last year,

1308
01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:05,560
Speaker 1: the year before budget like fifty million dollars for the

1309
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 1: state to fight fire. Right, we had one fire in

1310
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 1: North Idaho called the Camera Complex that like doubled it

1311
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:14,479
Speaker 1: was at least doubled the amount of money the state

1312
01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:17,519
Speaker 1: had had budgeted. Now when the state like what do

1313
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 1: you do then? Right, it's like, oh, well the fire

1314
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 1: was fifty we budget a fifty million dollars. That's much

1315
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:23,680
Speaker 1: we got and it costs a hundred million dollars. You

1316
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:26,280
Speaker 1: can't spend more than you have in a state, right,

1317
01:08:26,360 --> 01:08:29,880
Speaker 1: Constitutions require you to balance your budget, so you either

1318
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:32,720
Speaker 1: got to like we always had these emergency school closings

1319
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:35,240
Speaker 1: and budget. Yeah, it's like there's no there's no buffer,

1320
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 1: there's no hard times buffer. Right. So, like, imagine if

1321
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:40,439
Speaker 1: like the state had a bunch of public land up there.

1322
01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:42,120
Speaker 1: You know, they got a couple of options. One that

1323
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 1: can start taking money from teachers to pay for firefighting costs, right,

1324
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:47,160
Speaker 1: that's gonna be a real popular move for a politician.

1325
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 1: Or you can start selling some land to pay for

1326
01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:52,320
Speaker 1: your costs. And I think, how well do you understand

1327
01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:54,679
Speaker 1: the Elliott State forest thing, because there's a nice concrete

1328
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 1: example that people might understand. I understand it like casually.

1329
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:01,000
Speaker 1: I'm not super tuned into the Elliott. I mean I

1330
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:02,680
Speaker 1: know what's going on, but I wouldn't call myself like

1331
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:05,000
Speaker 1: a subject matter expert in the Elliott. I mean, what

1332
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:06,680
Speaker 1: do you have there? I can try and explain it.

1333
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:08,800
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of a good point where you

1334
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:10,800
Speaker 1: stay like, here's a piece of ground that the state

1335
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:13,960
Speaker 1: held and they had reason why they had to dump it. Yeah,

1336
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:16,000
Speaker 1: so the state Elliott state for us like eight two

1337
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:20,560
Speaker 1: thousand acres roughly in Oregon. UM. It's a piece of

1338
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:24,000
Speaker 1: ground owned by the state UM and they it has

1339
01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 1: been for various reasons, not making as much money as

1340
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 1: the state claims it needs to make. And so they

1341
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:32,960
Speaker 1: are in a position right now trying to sell it

1342
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:38,360
Speaker 1: off because for no other reason than their constitution mandates

1343
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:42,400
Speaker 1: that they maximize revenue generation off state ground and this

1344
01:09:42,479 --> 01:09:45,160
Speaker 1: particular piece of ground and I don't know, I don't

1345
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:48,639
Speaker 1: understand why is not. They don't feel some politicians feel

1346
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 1: like it is not maximizing revenue for the beneficiaries for

1347
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:54,760
Speaker 1: the school trust, so they're looking at selling it off

1348
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 1: before that very reason. It's got people real riled up

1349
01:09:57,080 --> 01:09:58,400
Speaker 1: because a lot of people like to use it for

1350
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 1: recreationally used hunters, fishermen, I guess, and uh whatever else

1351
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:06,760
Speaker 1: people do in public land. Hula hoo. It's just but

1352
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:09,839
Speaker 1: it's still like, it's still like weirdly shortsighted and frivolous

1353
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 1: when people look at a piece of ground and they

1354
01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:14,920
Speaker 1: go like, well, what's it doing for me right now? Yeah?

1355
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:17,280
Speaker 1: I know, because we'll sell it and get like a

1356
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:19,880
Speaker 1: one time payment. I was like, oh, is your state

1357
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:22,800
Speaker 1: like set to cease to exist at some point in

1358
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 1: time in the future. The other the other interesting things

1359
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:28,360
Speaker 1: we found. So we did some We did some digging

1360
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:32,560
Speaker 1: around in Idaho looking at state land sales and most constitutions.

1361
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:35,519
Speaker 1: Our mind in Idaho two we have there's a cap

1362
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 1: on when the when the people that formed our state,

1363
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:39,439
Speaker 1: they're like, we're gonna cap the amount of land any

1364
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:41,880
Speaker 1: one person can buy. Any state land had a hundred

1365
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:45,720
Speaker 1: three acres and hundred sixty acres back to on our

1366
01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:48,880
Speaker 1: stand that so the folks when they when they formed

1367
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 1: state of Idaho, they were worried about land barns because

1368
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 1: the air of the land barn right, timber barons were

1369
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:58,600
Speaker 1: sort of gobbling up all the land. And so like

1370
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 1: a single individual who owns vast portions of a certain state,

1371
01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:05,559
Speaker 1: that winds up having undue influence on all aspects of

1372
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:08,000
Speaker 1: the state. And the folks they also when they're like, well,

1373
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 1: we're getting these state parcels from the federal government, but

1374
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:13,960
Speaker 1: they're meant to benefit schools. What we don't want is

1375
01:11:14,040 --> 01:11:16,760
Speaker 1: some like politician who's in the pocket of like at

1376
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:18,439
Speaker 1: the time it was a timber industry who was in

1377
01:11:18,479 --> 01:11:22,120
Speaker 1: the pocket of the timber industry to uh decide that

1378
01:11:22,120 --> 01:11:23,800
Speaker 1: it's a good idea to liquidate all these lands, and

1379
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:25,439
Speaker 1: then you have, you know, the one guy that can

1380
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:27,519
Speaker 1: afford it coming in and like buying up all the land.

1381
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:32,800
Speaker 1: So they were trying to prevent mass divestiture of state lands,

1382
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:35,599
Speaker 1: so they put these caps on how much land could

1383
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:37,879
Speaker 1: be sold in any one year in any one individual

1384
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:41,760
Speaker 1: or business right. And so then I got curious, so

1385
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 1: I started looking around a little bit and to see

1386
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:47,519
Speaker 1: whether or not that cap had been violated, because I noticed,

1387
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:50,760
Speaker 1: like a long time ago, companies like Boys Boys of

1388
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:54,479
Speaker 1: cass Gate and Pilot Chimber Company had bought like tens

1389
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:56,679
Speaker 1: of thousands of acres of state land, and I was like, huh,

1390
01:11:57,120 --> 01:11:59,120
Speaker 1: you can only buy like twenty acres of state land.

1391
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:01,519
Speaker 1: So I started it in the records and just kind

1392
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:04,839
Speaker 1: of got a curiosity looking, and we found what appeared

1393
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:09,680
Speaker 1: to be um a fairly serious set of constitutional violations

1394
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:14,000
Speaker 1: outdas history of people exceeding that captive going back how

1395
01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:16,800
Speaker 1: far and to like the early nineteen hundreds, from like

1396
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:19,320
Speaker 1: an early nine hundreds to like early seventies, so like

1397
01:12:19,439 --> 01:12:21,240
Speaker 1: long period of time. Most of it happened a long

1398
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:23,880
Speaker 1: time ago but um, and it's real hard to prove.

1399
01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:26,000
Speaker 1: But we you know, I spent months going over this

1400
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:28,360
Speaker 1: data working with the state to say, am I reading

1401
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:30,479
Speaker 1: this correctly? Like tell me I'm wrong. Surely you haven't

1402
01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 1: violated the constitution your own constitution and selling more state

1403
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:36,519
Speaker 1: land and the constitution allows you to do. And they

1404
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:39,240
Speaker 1: didn't have an explanation. So eventually we kind of went

1405
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:41,880
Speaker 1: public with some of this stuff and the state is

1406
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:45,040
Speaker 1: now the State of Idaho is has hired an independent auditor.

1407
01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:47,760
Speaker 1: Let's go back and see whether or not the Landboard

1408
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:50,400
Speaker 1: of the state is violated the state constitution in terms

1409
01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:55,639
Speaker 1: of state lands and how many instances three three hundred separate,

1410
01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:58,160
Speaker 1: separate instances, and what would happen is it's really interesting

1411
01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:02,760
Speaker 1: you see, like uh, it's you like um uh, several individuals,

1412
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 1: private individuals all dating the same Satan deeding land to

1413
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:09,400
Speaker 1: the same company, like on the same day. So we

1414
01:13:09,439 --> 01:13:13,800
Speaker 1: think was happening. My hunch totally, they're sending out like

1415
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:15,639
Speaker 1: somebody would be like, oh, we're gonna bring it. They'll

1416
01:13:15,680 --> 01:13:17,599
Speaker 1: they'll you know, put it out in the paper higher

1417
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 1: like twenty people go have them go out by land

1418
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:22,439
Speaker 1: and then wait a little bit and then have them

1419
01:13:22,479 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 1: deed it back to you and that and that is like,

1420
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:28,439
Speaker 1: it's illegal for sure, but it's hard to It would

1421
01:13:28,439 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 1: have been hard at the time to enforce or know

1422
01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:33,920
Speaker 1: that it it was happening. Um, I imagine, but certainly in

1423
01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:36,080
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies they should have been able to figure

1424
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:39,920
Speaker 1: that out. So do you have any sense with the

1425
01:13:39,920 --> 01:13:43,400
Speaker 1: stuff you found? Um, do you have any sense is

1426
01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:46,519
Speaker 1: there will there be any real repercussions from this or

1427
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:48,800
Speaker 1: wuld it just be more of a soul searching fact

1428
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 1: finding mission that That's yeah, that's kind of the question.

1429
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:54,599
Speaker 1: Did you are right now? Um? Ultimately, the buck stops

1430
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:56,720
Speaker 1: with our landboard, which is made up a comprise of

1431
01:13:56,760 --> 01:14:00,360
Speaker 1: our governor, our attorney general, and uh a couple of

1432
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:04,000
Speaker 1: folks superintendent public schools. I don't know what the ramifications

1433
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:06,840
Speaker 1: would be. I asked a couple lawyers that most of

1434
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 1: these transactions happened with folks that are no longer on

1435
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:12,200
Speaker 1: the landboard. A lot of them are no longer with us,

1436
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:14,360
Speaker 1: So I don't know the real question is whether or

1437
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:17,720
Speaker 1: not those people that bought land illegally. Essentially, if you

1438
01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 1: think about it, if it was if these two do

1439
01:14:20,320 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 1: turn out to be constitutional violations. There's no statute of

1440
01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:27,559
Speaker 1: limitations on a constitutional violation, right, So if you bought

1441
01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 1: state land, you know, uh illegally violate the constitution, does

1442
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:35,280
Speaker 1: that land then have to go back to the state.

1443
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:38,360
Speaker 1: That's where I could get really interesting, real fast. And

1444
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:40,040
Speaker 1: I don't have any interest in like pushing that. Like

1445
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:42,760
Speaker 1: my whole angle on this is just like, hey, if

1446
01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:45,080
Speaker 1: you think you can trust the state to not sell

1447
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 1: your public land and follow the law, like here's three

1448
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:49,280
Speaker 1: d cases where we're not so sure they even could

1449
01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:52,120
Speaker 1: follow then their own constitution. And it's not a unique case.

1450
01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:53,920
Speaker 1: I mean, this is not something that thinks unique to

1451
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:58,200
Speaker 1: Idaho either, So it's something to keep Anyone's just done

1452
01:14:58,200 --> 01:15:01,280
Speaker 1: any digging like that in mont in or not yet,

1453
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:04,680
Speaker 1: but people are on it. So it's it's a lot

1454
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:06,200
Speaker 1: of work. I mean, this is I mean, this is

1455
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:09,439
Speaker 1: a lot of research and a lot of digging around

1456
01:15:09,479 --> 01:15:12,519
Speaker 1: in old records that it takes a long time. So

1457
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:14,439
Speaker 1: but I think people are going to start uncovering a

1458
01:15:14,479 --> 01:15:15,880
Speaker 1: lot of stuff. And this is what I mean. It's

1459
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 1: like the history of you know, lands in general in

1460
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 1: the West is not any surprise. It's a tale of corruption. Right,

1461
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:23,000
Speaker 1: people are always trying to get their hands on more

1462
01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:26,720
Speaker 1: land and um and that's you know, to me, one

1463
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:29,599
Speaker 1: of the greatest things about having our public lands stay

1464
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:32,400
Speaker 1: public is you don't have to worry about like you know,

1465
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:34,519
Speaker 1: Robert Baron is trying to come in and gobble up

1466
01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:36,320
Speaker 1: all the resources like we all own it. Right now,

1467
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:39,600
Speaker 1: it's working, Okay, you know it's not perfect, not a

1468
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:42,680
Speaker 1: perfect system. But if you think that you're going to

1469
01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 1: give it to the states transferred to them and that

1470
01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:47,240
Speaker 1: that's just you know, everything's gonna be just the same.

1471
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:50,160
Speaker 1: I want to think twice and just look at the

1472
01:15:50,240 --> 01:15:52,719
Speaker 1: data and the facts. What do you think about all that? Cali,

1473
01:15:54,360 --> 01:16:00,120
Speaker 1: I'm constantly amazed by all this stuff that Rabil Elaborator are.

1474
01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:06,480
Speaker 1: Thing that should be plenty of an eye opening awakening

1475
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:08,920
Speaker 1: for everybody in the US. Is a ground that we

1476
01:16:09,040 --> 01:16:15,240
Speaker 1: all own. Uh, this guy is proposing that we seed

1477
01:16:15,479 --> 01:16:19,240
Speaker 1: a chunk of it to the state of Idaho. They

1478
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:22,240
Speaker 1: can do whatever they want with it right now that

1479
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:24,599
Speaker 1: they may say, you know, we can go out there

1480
01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:27,960
Speaker 1: and play on it, but really it's for resource extraction.

1481
01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:33,680
Speaker 1: But if things don't go well and there's some major catastrophe,

1482
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:38,720
Speaker 1: everybody in the nation can pay for it. Yeah, it's like,

1483
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:41,000
Speaker 1: oh gosh, if there's something you know that we're not

1484
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:43,720
Speaker 1: willing to pay for, then the Feds will come in

1485
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:47,160
Speaker 1: and pay for it. So if you're in you know,

1486
01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:50,320
Speaker 1: New Jersey right now, that's your land to play on.

1487
01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:54,880
Speaker 1: But if this were to happen, you probably won't get

1488
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:56,800
Speaker 1: to be able to play on it, but you're damn

1489
01:16:56,840 --> 01:16:59,320
Speaker 1: sure gonna be able to pay for it through your taxes.

1490
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:03,840
Speaker 1: It's an amazing thing. Can I talk about Zinky real

1491
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:06,639
Speaker 1: quick too? I think that's interesting. So Zinky Ford voted

1492
01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:09,360
Speaker 1: for that bill as a congressman, and he got absolutely

1493
01:17:09,479 --> 01:17:13,960
Speaker 1: hammered by it by you, some of you folks in Montana. Um,

1494
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:19,479
Speaker 1: I'm not Montana. No, I'm looking at yo, Callahan. He

1495
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:23,720
Speaker 1: still claimed Montana's your I certainly don't give up the

1496
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:27,200
Speaker 1: phone number no I got. I got a Montana phone

1497
01:17:27,240 --> 01:17:29,920
Speaker 1: over from I had one of the first phone cell

1498
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:34,000
Speaker 1: phones that I think everyone was produced hard to get

1499
01:17:34,040 --> 01:17:37,560
Speaker 1: rid of. I never changed my phone. I don't like

1500
01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:40,080
Speaker 1: change my email address. Someone was recently trying to give

1501
01:17:40,080 --> 01:17:42,760
Speaker 1: me a change my email address, Like, yeah, it's a

1502
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:48,600
Speaker 1: lot of work. Yeah, anyhow, So yeah, so, um, I

1503
01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:50,280
Speaker 1: don't know if you want to talk about zinc at all,

1504
01:17:50,320 --> 01:17:52,880
Speaker 1: but like that's really interesting tie to kind of having

1505
01:17:52,920 --> 01:17:55,960
Speaker 1: like Zinki a secretary of interier guy who has a

1506
01:17:56,040 --> 01:17:58,840
Speaker 1: fairly st body record on this issue. Um, I don't

1507
01:17:58,840 --> 01:18:01,760
Speaker 1: think people will really under than like how spotty it

1508
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:04,960
Speaker 1: is if you go looking back, you mean you mean spotty,

1509
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:09,560
Speaker 1: and that since since assuming his position now he's articulated

1510
01:18:09,560 --> 01:18:12,799
Speaker 1: a certain viewpoint and you feel that his past record

1511
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:16,840
Speaker 1: doesn't not reflective. Here's what I think. I think you

1512
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:20,240
Speaker 1: should evaluate politicians not just politicians. Is a good rule

1513
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:25,280
Speaker 1: for evaluating people in general. But I'm ready evaluate people

1514
01:18:25,320 --> 01:18:27,360
Speaker 1: by what they do, not what they say. Right, So

1515
01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:32,120
Speaker 1: if you say that, you know, like Ryan Zinkey's got

1516
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:35,759
Speaker 1: he's been saying the right thing, support keeping public bans public.

1517
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:38,400
Speaker 1: But if you look at how we voted, different story

1518
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:41,120
Speaker 1: a little bit right, So he voted for this bill

1519
01:18:41,200 --> 01:18:44,960
Speaker 1: to give four million acres in each state to the states. Um, now,

1520
01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:46,720
Speaker 1: people can change. I want to give him credit. I

1521
01:18:46,760 --> 01:18:50,599
Speaker 1: want positions change and sort of their mandates change and

1522
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:55,360
Speaker 1: they get appointed to carry out different missions. Correct, So

1523
01:18:55,479 --> 01:18:57,680
Speaker 1: like I want to give him, like he has an

1524
01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:00,400
Speaker 1: opportunity to prove himself. But I'm just saying, if you

1525
01:19:00,439 --> 01:19:03,280
Speaker 1: look at what he's done versus what he said, I'm

1526
01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:05,679
Speaker 1: not there yet where I'm like, no, I don'd understand

1527
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:07,640
Speaker 1: where you're coming from. Man, It's like I want to

1528
01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:09,720
Speaker 1: believe him. I'm gonna say, I'm just trying to I'm

1529
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:13,920
Speaker 1: trying to state very optimistic. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good

1530
01:19:13,960 --> 01:19:16,599
Speaker 1: place to be. I've been doing this too long, man,

1531
01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:21,400
Speaker 1: You've lost all all that got beat out of here, right,

1532
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:23,559
Speaker 1: so so so break it down there. He voted for

1533
01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:27,160
Speaker 1: this transferred idahole. No, it was. The bill applies to

1534
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:31,080
Speaker 1: all states. It's for million acres in any state that

1535
01:19:31,160 --> 01:19:33,240
Speaker 1: wants to do it. Basically, the way that bill reads,

1536
01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:35,559
Speaker 1: it's like if you have a governor in a state

1537
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:38,640
Speaker 1: that has public land, and that governor decides, yes, I

1538
01:19:38,680 --> 01:19:40,719
Speaker 1: want up to four million acres of land, he gets

1539
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:44,120
Speaker 1: to choose that. It's totally the government. Can we do

1540
01:19:44,160 --> 01:19:46,920
Speaker 1: a side note here? And I don't know if you okay,

1541
01:19:46,920 --> 01:19:51,920
Speaker 1: why is there no push for land transfer in the

1542
01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:54,400
Speaker 1: eastern US? Is it just because because if you look

1543
01:19:54,439 --> 01:19:56,640
Speaker 1: at the Upper Great Lake States, for instance, have a

1544
01:19:56,680 --> 01:20:00,120
Speaker 1: tremendous amount of national force land. It came about a

1545
01:20:00,160 --> 01:20:03,040
Speaker 1: different way, like so much to those national forests in

1546
01:20:03,080 --> 01:20:05,800
Speaker 1: the east, like in my home state law of the

1547
01:20:05,840 --> 01:20:09,280
Speaker 1: National Forests, rather than sort of just like by default

1548
01:20:09,520 --> 01:20:12,600
Speaker 1: belonging to the federal government. All along it was the

1549
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:17,000
Speaker 1: federal government was buying up chunks of land. It was

1550
01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:21,320
Speaker 1: basically being forfeited by homestead or individuals. So people were

1551
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:25,360
Speaker 1: getting land defaulting on debt right there, They're like applying

1552
01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:29,479
Speaker 1: for homestead lands, farm parcels. And then economic hard times

1553
01:20:29,479 --> 01:20:33,360
Speaker 1: came about, or all the giant fires that just destroyed

1554
01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:36,240
Speaker 1: the upper Great Legs after the logging boom, people were

1555
01:20:36,280 --> 01:20:39,439
Speaker 1: walking away from land, and the federal garment was bailing

1556
01:20:39,479 --> 01:20:45,080
Speaker 1: people out by basically acquiring it, just burned over scarred land,

1557
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:48,400
Speaker 1: acquiring it for you know, fractions of its what it

1558
01:20:48,400 --> 01:20:51,000
Speaker 1: would be its value today. And they built up they

1559
01:20:51,000 --> 01:20:53,439
Speaker 1: would designate these they would drop these chunks of ground

1560
01:20:53,479 --> 01:20:55,840
Speaker 1: and be like, hey, we're gonna make this. Everything in

1561
01:20:55,880 --> 01:20:59,160
Speaker 1: here can become part of this national forest. As it

1562
01:20:59,200 --> 01:21:01,120
Speaker 1: comes up for say no one wants it, or if

1563
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:04,120
Speaker 1: it's abandoned and just has back taxes will assume it

1564
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:08,240
Speaker 1: and buy it up. And they started patching together these

1565
01:21:08,479 --> 01:21:12,200
Speaker 1: patchwork national forests that that I grew up, you know,

1566
01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:17,160
Speaker 1: point eight miles from one. UM. But why is there

1567
01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:21,840
Speaker 1: never any rhetoric there? There is? Actually like now they'd

1568
01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:23,479
Speaker 1: be like, you know what, no, let's get rid of

1569
01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:27,600
Speaker 1: it there. So there have been so seventeen states have

1570
01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:31,760
Speaker 1: introduced what we would I would characterize anti public lands bills. UM.

1571
01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:36,559
Speaker 1: So you know that includes like Tennessee. I think, uh,

1572
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:38,160
Speaker 1: I have to have a listen from me. With Tennessee.

1573
01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:39,639
Speaker 1: I don't want to say like Georgia and like South

1574
01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:43,280
Speaker 1: Carolina some of these co states, um, but you don't.

1575
01:21:43,320 --> 01:21:46,240
Speaker 1: It's certainly Western centric issue because that's where most of

1576
01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:49,280
Speaker 1: the public lands in America are located. How also, link

1577
01:21:49,320 --> 01:21:51,200
Speaker 1: the folks that are pushing this issue, they want to

1578
01:21:51,360 --> 01:21:53,680
Speaker 1: they want to compartmentalize that. They want to keep keep

1579
01:21:53,720 --> 01:21:55,639
Speaker 1: it a Western issue because I think that's where folks

1580
01:21:55,640 --> 01:21:58,320
Speaker 1: have the most frustration with federal government, and they want

1581
01:21:58,320 --> 01:22:01,320
Speaker 1: to kind of keep Eastern politicians out of it, like,

1582
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:03,559
Speaker 1: this is not your issue. This is our issue out here.

1583
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:05,200
Speaker 1: So I don't want to hear your opinion, you know

1584
01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:07,400
Speaker 1: you guys and East even though they all own it, right,

1585
01:22:07,560 --> 01:22:10,680
Speaker 1: it's everybody's land. It's to the political advantage, I think,

1586
01:22:10,680 --> 01:22:12,880
Speaker 1: to the folks pushing at the rob bishops of the

1587
01:22:12,920 --> 01:22:16,240
Speaker 1: world to keep it sort of um, keep it a

1588
01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:19,439
Speaker 1: Western focused issue. I also think my theory too, is

1589
01:22:19,479 --> 01:22:23,200
Speaker 1: that folks in the East and the West, I don't

1590
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:25,760
Speaker 1: think they have the level of frustration maybe anger that

1591
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:27,880
Speaker 1: a lot of folks out west too with public lands,

1592
01:22:28,760 --> 01:22:32,160
Speaker 1: just because it's not I don't know Michigan per se,

1593
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:33,760
Speaker 1: but like you don't have I don't know if many

1594
01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:37,360
Speaker 1: counties in like Midwest and the East where public land

1595
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:41,600
Speaker 1: counts for like sixty of the of the land of

1596
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:44,040
Speaker 1: the county. So like the tax base issue, that's a

1597
01:22:44,080 --> 01:22:46,120
Speaker 1: real issue too, you know on the West, like having

1598
01:22:46,240 --> 01:22:49,439
Speaker 1: enough land to be able to uh charge income tax

1599
01:22:49,439 --> 01:22:52,840
Speaker 1: on to pay for teachers, you know, just county services, roads,

1600
01:22:52,880 --> 01:22:55,960
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So so there's all these things

1601
01:22:56,040 --> 01:22:58,280
Speaker 1: kind of um. And I also think too that like

1602
01:22:58,680 --> 01:23:00,519
Speaker 1: folks in the East and the Midwest US like because

1603
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:02,400
Speaker 1: they don't have the much public land, they also like

1604
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:04,400
Speaker 1: cherish it a little bit more too. I think if

1605
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:07,479
Speaker 1: you watch Harder Fight, yeah, yeah, I think so. I

1606
01:23:07,479 --> 01:23:09,559
Speaker 1: think so for sure, it's like why would you want

1607
01:23:09,560 --> 01:23:11,400
Speaker 1: to get rid of that? Like in place I take

1608
01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:13,280
Speaker 1: my family camping once a year, kind of like that

1609
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:15,880
Speaker 1: place you know, um where I was out eating out

1610
01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:18,320
Speaker 1: in the West. It's like, you know, you almost like

1611
01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:20,360
Speaker 1: most people just aren't aware that public land is just

1612
01:23:20,479 --> 01:23:23,400
Speaker 1: it's everywhere around you, so you just take it for granted,

1613
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:26,839
Speaker 1: Like people don't. I would. I think you probably wouldn't

1614
01:23:26,840 --> 01:23:29,920
Speaker 1: be surprised. But I am often continually surprised that people

1615
01:23:30,240 --> 01:23:34,519
Speaker 1: are not aware that they might be surrounded by public land.

1616
01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:36,559
Speaker 1: They might go camping on all the time, fishing, hiking,

1617
01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:38,800
Speaker 1: parked their car, or shoot their gun or whatever, and

1618
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:42,360
Speaker 1: they just don't even think that's public land. Um, They're

1619
01:23:42,360 --> 01:23:44,240
Speaker 1: just like I just go and use it. That's how

1620
01:23:44,240 --> 01:23:46,200
Speaker 1: we perceived it. We grew up around a lot of

1621
01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:48,040
Speaker 1: public land, and we were aware of it. We thought

1622
01:23:48,040 --> 01:23:49,439
Speaker 1: it fell from the like it was like it fell

1623
01:23:49,479 --> 01:23:52,439
Speaker 1: from the sky manna from heaven. Dude. We had no

1624
01:23:52,600 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 1: like notion that it was a thing people like fought for.

1625
01:23:55,439 --> 01:23:57,760
Speaker 1: Yeah I didn't, And I talked about and tried to

1626
01:23:57,800 --> 01:24:01,160
Speaker 1: create this system that was like this great repudiation of

1627
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:05,240
Speaker 1: European oppression and then aristocracy. No, he saw it was

1628
01:24:05,280 --> 01:24:07,040
Speaker 1: like a bunch of she go and shoot guns on

1629
01:24:07,160 --> 01:24:10,160
Speaker 1: him right around. Yeah, because on a small levels, like

1630
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:14,000
Speaker 1: your dad was like, guys, here's the deal. He thought,

1631
01:24:14,040 --> 01:24:15,640
Speaker 1: this is why we're going out. He thought it fell

1632
01:24:15,720 --> 01:24:18,360
Speaker 1: from outer space too. It just was it just what

1633
01:24:18,520 --> 01:24:20,720
Speaker 1: it always was that it was, Yeah, exactly. It's like

1634
01:24:20,760 --> 01:24:22,320
Speaker 1: I don't know. It goes back to that thing, like

1635
01:24:22,479 --> 01:24:25,759
Speaker 1: people don't realize who who gave him a benefit, although

1636
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:27,840
Speaker 1: I argue most people now seemed to be that are

1637
01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:29,360
Speaker 1: in the public lands world seemed to be aware that

1638
01:24:29,360 --> 01:24:32,599
Speaker 1: tell you Roosevelt is large responsible for giving given public

1639
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:35,760
Speaker 1: lands to us, but they do know again, who's trying

1640
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:38,240
Speaker 1: to take that away from him? So everybody knows who

1641
01:24:38,280 --> 01:24:41,880
Speaker 1: Jason Chafitz is now, right, Yeah, nobody know who he was. No, No,

1642
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:44,080
Speaker 1: he's like I'm famous now outside of his own state.

1643
01:24:44,120 --> 01:24:45,800
Speaker 1: But that I would like to, like, I would really

1644
01:24:45,840 --> 01:24:49,280
Speaker 1: like to like take a just drive around, like have

1645
01:24:49,479 --> 01:24:55,720
Speaker 1: a burger with Bishop Rob Bishop chaf Jason, because I

1646
01:24:55,800 --> 01:24:57,280
Speaker 1: was like, I honestly want to know, Like I honestly

1647
01:24:57,320 --> 01:24:59,759
Speaker 1: I'm like, what like if you look at a mountain,

1648
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:01,760
Speaker 1: if you look at like a mountain is the non

1649
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:06,519
Speaker 1: developed non road, does it make you angry? Like do

1650
01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:10,040
Speaker 1: you hate it, like I hate that mountain. I wish

1651
01:25:10,080 --> 01:25:13,000
Speaker 1: it had like his, which is I think they do

1652
01:25:13,160 --> 01:25:16,720
Speaker 1: hate the fact that it's not producing more at the

1653
01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:21,320
Speaker 1: moment for the guys that give them money. Well for

1654
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:23,679
Speaker 1: I think yet, well yes, but I think they pitch

1655
01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:26,000
Speaker 1: it as in like, well everybody that lives here. I

1656
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:28,640
Speaker 1: don't know how they would designate like who gets it

1657
01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:30,479
Speaker 1: to get their chunk right, It's like if you live

1658
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:32,679
Speaker 1: in the county or the state or whatever. But they're

1659
01:25:32,720 --> 01:25:35,800
Speaker 1: just like, well, it's not producing anything. If we did

1660
01:25:35,840 --> 01:25:37,960
Speaker 1: something with it, then we could just like hand out

1661
01:25:38,080 --> 01:25:41,400
Speaker 1: this money or hand out jobs, you know. Yeah, yeah,

1662
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:43,120
Speaker 1: I'm not not even to think that they look at

1663
01:25:43,120 --> 01:25:45,160
Speaker 1: a mountain and hate it, Like I know that that's

1664
01:25:45,200 --> 01:25:47,479
Speaker 1: not true, But I just like wonder, like what, like

1665
01:25:47,600 --> 01:25:50,560
Speaker 1: what is it? You know, what is it? Because I

1666
01:25:50,640 --> 01:25:52,840
Speaker 1: I like, I used to view the world more like

1667
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:55,559
Speaker 1: there's like evil people and not evil people, But then

1668
01:25:55,640 --> 01:25:59,520
Speaker 1: I realized that it's not really a very constructive, realistic

1669
01:26:00,280 --> 01:26:02,600
Speaker 1: way of viewing it. It's actually a lot more complicated

1670
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:08,479
Speaker 1: than that. So but I can't know, like without knowing them,

1671
01:26:08,600 --> 01:26:12,719
Speaker 1: without hanging out with him, I can't know, uh, hanging

1672
01:26:12,720 --> 01:26:14,120
Speaker 1: out with so you learn a lot about him in

1673
01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:18,400
Speaker 1: a hurry. Yeah, well, their temperament is going on like

1674
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:22,720
Speaker 1: a three day backpacking hunt. I don't know if they'd

1675
01:26:22,840 --> 01:26:28,960
Speaker 1: make it, But rumor, I love this shoot. I heard

1676
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:32,880
Speaker 1: a dog when he when he pulled his piece of legislation,

1677
01:26:33,400 --> 01:26:35,040
Speaker 1: and it was him with a hunting dog. I heard

1678
01:26:35,080 --> 01:26:37,439
Speaker 1: a rumor. Not like I said, I heard a rumor

1679
01:26:37,479 --> 01:26:41,000
Speaker 1: about that dog. I heard a rumor about that dog.

1680
01:26:41,120 --> 01:26:44,720
Speaker 1: Let your imagination go where it will. The dog came out. No,

1681
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:47,280
Speaker 1: I heard a rumor about that dog. I'm not gonna

1682
01:26:47,280 --> 01:26:49,840
Speaker 1: share because it's here safe. I will tell you this. Like,

1683
01:26:50,200 --> 01:26:54,320
Speaker 1: I've spent a lot of time with elected officials and

1684
01:26:54,320 --> 01:26:57,720
Speaker 1: and I sort of gave up on like caring about

1685
01:26:57,760 --> 01:26:59,960
Speaker 1: like their motivations. They just have a lot of a lot.

1686
01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:02,120
Speaker 1: Can you say that because I want to know? Like

1687
01:27:02,200 --> 01:27:04,400
Speaker 1: I don't. I just don't think, like I'm never going

1688
01:27:04,439 --> 01:27:07,880
Speaker 1: to accept they're like I was, like good people who

1689
01:27:08,439 --> 01:27:14,160
Speaker 1: care about who love their children, care about their state, patriotic, okay,

1690
01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:20,000
Speaker 1: want the best for for their country. I'm making this assumption.

1691
01:27:20,280 --> 01:27:23,120
Speaker 1: So what is it? Why do you hate that ship's

1692
01:27:23,160 --> 01:27:25,000
Speaker 1: so bad? I think you know it's just it's something.

1693
01:27:25,080 --> 01:27:26,879
Speaker 1: They hate it. I think it's just not a priority

1694
01:27:26,960 --> 01:27:30,160
Speaker 1: for them, and they just they have a particular worldview

1695
01:27:30,200 --> 01:27:34,240
Speaker 1: that is very dogmatic. Like if you if you spend

1696
01:27:34,600 --> 01:27:36,360
Speaker 1: I can say this, I don't think Labor is going

1697
01:27:36,400 --> 01:27:38,240
Speaker 1: to listen to your podcast. Maybe he's your biggest fan,

1698
01:27:38,760 --> 01:27:41,960
Speaker 1: but let's just assume Raoul. I've spend enough time with

1699
01:27:42,040 --> 01:27:43,840
Speaker 1: Raoul to know that ra Woul has a view of

1700
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:46,840
Speaker 1: the world that is like, this is the way it is.

1701
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:49,519
Speaker 1: I don't like, I don't care what you think. I

1702
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:51,360
Speaker 1: don't care what you think. I have my beliefs and

1703
01:27:51,400 --> 01:27:53,880
Speaker 1: like you're wrong, and like I'm right, I don't just

1704
01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:55,720
Speaker 1: that's where that's where it starts. And in so like

1705
01:27:56,760 --> 01:27:59,360
Speaker 1: it's hard if you try, I mean you could. You

1706
01:27:59,360 --> 01:28:01,720
Speaker 1: could spend so much time trying to understand where these

1707
01:28:01,720 --> 01:28:05,000
Speaker 1: guys come from, and it would drive you nuts because

1708
01:28:05,120 --> 01:28:07,400
Speaker 1: the folks that are really I know, I'm not saying

1709
01:28:07,479 --> 01:28:09,280
Speaker 1: Rob Bishop is that way, but I'm saying some of

1710
01:28:09,280 --> 01:28:11,639
Speaker 1: these folks like they come out of from a very

1711
01:28:11,760 --> 01:28:14,360
Speaker 1: black and white view of the world and there isn't

1712
01:28:14,479 --> 01:28:17,000
Speaker 1: room for like, oh, maybe you've got a point there.

1713
01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:19,840
Speaker 1: It's like, no, you're wrong. Steve let me tell you

1714
01:28:19,880 --> 01:28:22,400
Speaker 1: why you're wrong. That mountain right there should be doing

1715
01:28:22,439 --> 01:28:25,120
Speaker 1: more than it's only just sitting there doing nobody any

1716
01:28:25,160 --> 01:28:28,160
Speaker 1: favors up there, you know, giving me the stink guy

1717
01:28:28,200 --> 01:28:30,639
Speaker 1: when we could put a theme park up there, and

1718
01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:34,080
Speaker 1: I think that's better and you're wrong, and I'm right, yeah,

1719
01:28:35,040 --> 01:28:37,080
Speaker 1: because you could have a worldview, you could have a

1720
01:28:37,160 --> 01:28:41,760
Speaker 1: national view that the government is meant to facility, not

1721
01:28:41,800 --> 01:28:44,200
Speaker 1: to stand, not to impede, but it is meant to

1722
01:28:44,240 --> 01:28:50,000
Speaker 1: facilitate and provide a safe environment for business transactions, and

1723
01:28:50,040 --> 01:28:52,080
Speaker 1: to have a guy be like, hey, man, I can

1724
01:28:52,160 --> 01:28:54,960
Speaker 1: come out. I created a hundred jobs for the next

1725
01:28:54,960 --> 01:28:57,960
Speaker 1: three years. I'm gonna gouge that motherfucker out and pull

1726
01:28:58,040 --> 01:29:01,160
Speaker 1: some minerals out of there. I'm ready to write checks.

1727
01:29:01,880 --> 01:29:04,559
Speaker 1: And there's someone who would be like, well, it ain't

1728
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:10,040
Speaker 1: doing nothing. This could put it to use. And my

1729
01:29:10,200 --> 01:29:13,080
Speaker 1: thing I always feel is like oftentimes it becomes a

1730
01:29:13,160 --> 01:29:18,280
Speaker 1: very shortsighted thing. Yeah, for sure, someone says to me, yeah,

1731
01:29:18,320 --> 01:29:20,720
Speaker 1: I noticed you not using that toolbox right now. I'll

1732
01:29:20,720 --> 01:29:22,960
Speaker 1: give you five bucks that toolbox right now. I'm like

1733
01:29:23,040 --> 01:29:25,240
Speaker 1: sold because right now I'm not using that toolbox. And

1734
01:29:25,240 --> 01:29:30,120
Speaker 1: the more i'm like God, damn my toolboxing, my toolbox

1735
01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:34,000
Speaker 1: in the whole damn system. This is an altruistic view,

1736
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:36,400
Speaker 1: but this is certainly the way I was explained to me,

1737
01:29:36,479 --> 01:29:39,559
Speaker 1: you know on my first government class, when I said,

1738
01:29:39,680 --> 01:29:42,800
Speaker 1: we tyke because these people are there, you know, kind

1739
01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:46,040
Speaker 1: of damn their opinions to a certain degree. They're there

1740
01:29:46,080 --> 01:29:50,240
Speaker 1: to represent the people within their district, and so everybody

1741
01:29:50,240 --> 01:29:54,120
Speaker 1: within that district better want to gouge the ship out

1742
01:29:54,120 --> 01:29:58,080
Speaker 1: of that mountain to or at least the majority, and

1743
01:29:58,120 --> 01:29:59,960
Speaker 1: they can take their opinions what they say to the

1744
01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:02,840
Speaker 1: buddies behind closed doors and sticking up their butt. But

1745
01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:05,920
Speaker 1: there's also like the donor factor because like you remember,

1746
01:30:06,040 --> 01:30:07,439
Speaker 1: this is a very small thing, but it kind of

1747
01:30:07,439 --> 01:30:11,920
Speaker 1: made a national thing where where when so so when uh,

1748
01:30:11,960 --> 01:30:15,120
Speaker 1: well Michael Bloomberg left left his he gave up his

1749
01:30:15,240 --> 01:30:17,120
Speaker 1: you know, was done. Turned out on being the mayor

1750
01:30:17,160 --> 01:30:20,760
Speaker 1: of New York. A guy came in the name build

1751
01:30:20,800 --> 01:30:22,920
Speaker 1: a Blasio and became the mayor of New York. One

1752
01:30:22,920 --> 01:30:25,040
Speaker 1: of the first things build the Blasio does. We talked

1753
01:30:25,040 --> 01:30:27,840
Speaker 1: about this yesterday. When the first thing to build the

1754
01:30:27,880 --> 01:30:31,680
Speaker 1: Blasio does is he comes out and says, from now on,

1755
01:30:32,000 --> 01:30:36,360
Speaker 1: no horse, You can't give horse rides in Central Park.

1756
01:30:37,280 --> 01:30:39,600
Speaker 1: One of the first things he did, Now, do you

1757
01:30:39,600 --> 01:30:42,040
Speaker 1: think anyone in New York, if you were to poll

1758
01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:43,760
Speaker 1: the eight million or third team or whatever the hell

1759
01:30:43,880 --> 01:30:46,800
Speaker 1: number of people live in New York gives a ship

1760
01:30:48,000 --> 01:30:50,439
Speaker 1: like they look at a lot of horses. Got the job.

1761
01:30:50,560 --> 01:30:54,000
Speaker 1: He's well fed, he's got like a great stable, he's

1762
01:30:54,040 --> 01:30:58,920
Speaker 1: got great veterinarian care. Right was seen like it seems

1763
01:30:58,920 --> 01:31:00,400
Speaker 1: to me like if you're gonna be a horse, that's

1764
01:31:00,439 --> 01:31:03,439
Speaker 1: not a bad horse to be so. But one of

1765
01:31:03,479 --> 01:31:05,160
Speaker 1: the first things he does is like, can't have horse

1766
01:31:05,280 --> 01:31:08,120
Speaker 1: rides in central parks? Mean for the horses? Did you

1767
01:31:08,560 --> 01:31:11,800
Speaker 1: know that that was some guy gave that guy some

1768
01:31:11,840 --> 01:31:15,479
Speaker 1: money when he was running and gave him some back

1769
01:31:15,560 --> 01:31:18,559
Speaker 1: and gave him some support. And that was the deal

1770
01:31:18,600 --> 01:31:22,160
Speaker 1: they made. There's a did not come from public opinion,

1771
01:31:22,280 --> 01:31:25,560
Speaker 1: you know, they came A million people called or emailed

1772
01:31:25,600 --> 01:31:30,760
Speaker 1: and said those horses for little kids riding. There's a

1773
01:31:30,760 --> 01:31:34,040
Speaker 1: guy with like Allama Allama carrier business who's like paying

1774
01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:40,599
Speaker 1: him under the tables. Isn't like it's not always it's

1775
01:31:40,640 --> 01:31:45,160
Speaker 1: not always that. This is the rising tide of popular sentiment.

1776
01:31:45,840 --> 01:31:49,960
Speaker 1: It sometimes is you make arrangements, and it takes money

1777
01:31:50,320 --> 01:31:54,200
Speaker 1: to win an elected office in this country. You make

1778
01:31:54,320 --> 01:31:57,680
Speaker 1: arrangements with people and then you need to fulfill and

1779
01:31:57,720 --> 01:32:02,720
Speaker 1: make certain deals, right. And that's just it's not like, oh,

1780
01:32:02,760 --> 01:32:06,000
Speaker 1: because my constituents are all when they look at all

1781
01:32:06,040 --> 01:32:08,280
Speaker 1: the problems in New York, the thing that they've isolated

1782
01:32:08,320 --> 01:32:11,519
Speaker 1: as the real pressing issue is horse rides in Central Park.

1783
01:32:11,720 --> 01:32:15,000
Speaker 1: We fix. It's just it. It's like a thing. He's like, yeah, okay, okay, okay,

1784
01:32:15,320 --> 01:32:17,920
Speaker 1: I'll do something about it, but you know, you gotta

1785
01:32:18,120 --> 01:32:19,880
Speaker 1: do something for me. That was a third leg was

1786
01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:23,960
Speaker 1: political stool to It's like education, healthcare and horses in

1787
01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:27,160
Speaker 1: Central Part and making yeah, no, like for sure, like

1788
01:32:27,240 --> 01:32:29,680
Speaker 1: money matters. I mean, I guess, I guess. Let me

1789
01:32:29,680 --> 01:32:33,880
Speaker 1: just say this way, like I I learned doing this work,

1790
01:32:33,920 --> 01:32:36,160
Speaker 1: like I could spend an inorder amount of time trying

1791
01:32:36,200 --> 01:32:40,960
Speaker 1: to understand like the motivation of some politicians. Some politicians,

1792
01:32:41,000 --> 01:32:43,720
Speaker 1: I should say, are very open to listening understanding, some

1793
01:32:43,800 --> 01:32:46,080
Speaker 1: are not, and the ones I feel like are not.

1794
01:32:46,240 --> 01:32:48,600
Speaker 1: Like I don't feel like it's a productive use of

1795
01:32:48,640 --> 01:32:52,599
Speaker 1: my time to invest in understanding why. I just view

1796
01:32:52,640 --> 01:32:54,960
Speaker 1: it as like this is where they're at and this

1797
01:32:55,040 --> 01:32:57,080
Speaker 1: is what we do. You think there's no moving them

1798
01:32:57,120 --> 01:33:01,040
Speaker 1: some of them, No, absolutely not, And like I'm looking

1799
01:33:01,040 --> 01:33:03,240
Speaker 1: at me like it was like it's got cynical man.

1800
01:33:03,320 --> 01:33:05,160
Speaker 1: No no, no, no, it's interesting. It's interesting. So you

1801
01:33:05,160 --> 01:33:07,439
Speaker 1: don't think because because if you're gonna do, I think,

1802
01:33:08,280 --> 01:33:11,160
Speaker 1: if you're gonna persuade, you know what. I think a

1803
01:33:11,200 --> 01:33:14,679
Speaker 1: part of persuading is being don articulate to them their viewpoint.

1804
01:33:14,960 --> 01:33:17,120
Speaker 1: So I think what will persuade them is if they

1805
01:33:17,120 --> 01:33:19,920
Speaker 1: see people with similar opinions of them starting to get

1806
01:33:20,120 --> 01:33:23,040
Speaker 1: losing office. That will catch your attention real fast, because

1807
01:33:23,080 --> 01:33:25,040
Speaker 1: that is what you know if you're and then speaking

1808
01:33:25,080 --> 01:33:27,040
Speaker 1: general terms. But it's like you start kicking guys out

1809
01:33:27,080 --> 01:33:29,599
Speaker 1: of office you're anti public lands because of their anti

1810
01:33:29,680 --> 01:33:32,240
Speaker 1: their public land stands. Oh yeah, you better you better

1811
01:33:32,280 --> 01:33:34,920
Speaker 1: watch people just starting to change your opinion real fast.

1812
01:33:35,240 --> 01:33:37,799
Speaker 1: But you try and like just convinced them on the merits.

1813
01:33:38,160 --> 01:33:40,760
Speaker 1: Some people can be persuaded, you know. I'm not saying

1814
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:42,800
Speaker 1: it can't, but there are some folks. So I think

1815
01:33:43,400 --> 01:33:45,519
Speaker 1: I think Raoul was one of them. Like if you

1816
01:33:45,560 --> 01:33:47,400
Speaker 1: spend any time with the guy, you'll know what I mean, like,

1817
01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:49,759
Speaker 1: you're not going to persuade the guy on your opinion.

1818
01:33:50,040 --> 01:33:53,920
Speaker 1: He doesn't. Politicians do get their opinions changed, because just

1819
01:33:54,240 --> 01:33:57,560
Speaker 1: look at we're a hundred days into the Trump administration.

1820
01:33:57,760 --> 01:34:00,799
Speaker 1: He felt that Hillary Clinton should be prosecuted, now feels

1821
01:34:00,800 --> 01:34:04,000
Speaker 1: she should not be prosecuted. He felt that we should

1822
01:34:04,520 --> 01:34:08,479
Speaker 1: disalign with NATO, now feels that it's a powerful ally

1823
01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:12,320
Speaker 1: of ours. He thought that enhanced torture or enhanced interrogation

1824
01:34:12,360 --> 01:34:15,559
Speaker 1: techniques were a really good idea, campaigned on it, and

1825
01:34:15,600 --> 01:34:18,320
Speaker 1: then turn around and said that based on further analysis

1826
01:34:18,360 --> 01:34:21,320
Speaker 1: and conversations he's had with experts in the intelligence community,

1827
01:34:21,520 --> 01:34:24,000
Speaker 1: he feels that it might not be the best strategy

1828
01:34:24,040 --> 01:34:26,759
Speaker 1: to extract information from people. That's not because he sees

1829
01:34:26,800 --> 01:34:30,479
Speaker 1: presidents losing elections. Is because he's having conversations with people

1830
01:34:30,680 --> 01:34:33,040
Speaker 1: who are saying, here's all I'm looking at it. Well,

1831
01:34:33,040 --> 01:34:36,000
Speaker 1: they're not all like people are not change their minds absolutely,

1832
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:37,880
Speaker 1: but they're not all the same either. They're what motivates

1833
01:34:37,920 --> 01:34:39,120
Speaker 1: him is not all the same. I could I think

1834
01:34:39,120 --> 01:34:41,559
Speaker 1: you can make an argument that like someone like Donald Trump,

1835
01:34:41,640 --> 01:34:45,599
Speaker 1: like he can um he can beat influence on some issues,

1836
01:34:45,640 --> 01:34:47,760
Speaker 1: just like everybody, but he has a different way of

1837
01:34:47,800 --> 01:34:50,280
Speaker 1: making up his mind than others. Now, someone like Raoul,

1838
01:34:50,439 --> 01:34:53,400
Speaker 1: just an example like Raoul can change his mind. But

1839
01:34:53,479 --> 01:34:55,559
Speaker 1: I have seen some people I'm not gonna name names

1840
01:34:55,640 --> 01:34:57,479
Speaker 1: r companies, but I have some people that I would

1841
01:34:57,520 --> 01:35:00,320
Speaker 1: consider very much a part of his base, who have

1842
01:35:00,439 --> 01:35:02,640
Speaker 1: a lot of money and a lot of power, unable

1843
01:35:02,880 --> 01:35:06,960
Speaker 1: to move him on issues, very simple issues, because he's like, no,

1844
01:35:07,040 --> 01:35:09,960
Speaker 1: this is what I believe. Yes, and they're big donors

1845
01:35:10,280 --> 01:35:12,439
Speaker 1: and they have so you're saying, not even change in

1846
01:35:12,520 --> 01:35:16,240
Speaker 1: his mind for wealthy people who have influence. Yeah, there's

1847
01:35:16,240 --> 01:35:20,439
Speaker 1: just one. There's an industry. Uh um, Yeah, I probably

1848
01:35:20,439 --> 01:35:27,000
Speaker 1: shouldn't even say toys, you guess, like Wull They're like, hey,

1849
01:35:27,040 --> 01:35:29,559
Speaker 1: we got this issue and we want you to like

1850
01:35:29,680 --> 01:35:32,160
Speaker 1: vote our way. And I only know because I'm friends

1851
01:35:32,200 --> 01:35:34,000
Speaker 1: with this guy in this industry and they are very

1852
01:35:34,000 --> 01:35:37,280
Speaker 1: powerful in the state of Idaho, most powerful industries and

1853
01:35:37,400 --> 01:35:41,720
Speaker 1: you know, rebels like I don't really believe in that. Sorry, Yeah,

1854
01:35:42,360 --> 01:35:44,519
Speaker 1: and that's not I'm not saying that's indicative of like

1855
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:47,360
Speaker 1: he's unique, but they are not. He's not alone. Almost

1856
01:35:47,400 --> 01:35:52,280
Speaker 1: makes me almost makes me respect him, respect that aspect

1857
01:35:52,920 --> 01:35:56,000
Speaker 1: so yeah, I like that's what you're saying. I like

1858
01:35:56,200 --> 01:35:59,719
Speaker 1: people who It's like, there's two kinds of people, just people.

1859
01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:02,080
Speaker 1: I think you can break everybody down into two groups,

1860
01:36:02,280 --> 01:36:04,680
Speaker 1: just people who don't know. It's like, it's like I

1861
01:36:04,760 --> 01:36:07,200
Speaker 1: like the guy who can who can hear about something

1862
01:36:07,240 --> 01:36:08,920
Speaker 1: and be like, yeah, that's a good damn point. I

1863
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:12,080
Speaker 1: changed my mind. I also like the guy who's like, uh, never,

1864
01:36:12,439 --> 01:36:15,479
Speaker 1: I know what I know for sure. Yeah. I kind

1865
01:36:15,479 --> 01:36:18,160
Speaker 1: of like that guy. Yeah yeah, no. So I'm not

1866
01:36:18,160 --> 01:36:20,400
Speaker 1: saying they can't be changed. They can't mind can't be changed.

1867
01:36:20,400 --> 01:36:22,280
Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is like, if I've got time,

1868
01:36:22,280 --> 01:36:23,600
Speaker 1: if I'm working on an issue and I'm like re

1869
01:36:23,680 --> 01:36:25,360
Speaker 1: wolves on one side and I got I'm like working

1870
01:36:25,400 --> 01:36:27,800
Speaker 1: on the side over here, Like I can invest time

1871
01:36:28,200 --> 01:36:29,960
Speaker 1: trying to figure out the way his mind works, or

1872
01:36:30,000 --> 01:36:32,160
Speaker 1: I can just spend time trying to win. And I'd

1873
01:36:32,240 --> 01:36:34,720
Speaker 1: rather spend my time trying to win. I know you're

1874
01:36:34,720 --> 01:36:36,840
Speaker 1: a curious guy. So you're like, now, I don't want

1875
01:36:36,840 --> 01:36:38,519
Speaker 1: to interrupt anymore. Just I want you to lay out

1876
01:36:38,520 --> 01:36:41,519
Speaker 1: here approach. But why you don't care? Like why no,

1877
01:36:41,880 --> 01:36:43,439
Speaker 1: I know, I want you lay out your approach about

1878
01:36:43,520 --> 01:36:47,680
Speaker 1: why the motivations don't matter. Well, they do, but this

1879
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:50,240
Speaker 1: is just like you're you're just like my personal opinion

1880
01:36:50,320 --> 01:36:53,759
Speaker 1: of like if you're talking about motivations for public lands,

1881
01:36:53,760 --> 01:36:56,080
Speaker 1: you know what you're saying. No, it's like continue with

1882
01:36:56,120 --> 01:36:58,920
Speaker 1: your thoughts that that you tried to bring up twenty

1883
01:36:58,920 --> 01:37:03,639
Speaker 1: minutes ago, that at a point I don't you're saying

1884
01:37:03,720 --> 01:37:05,880
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what he thinks when he looks at

1885
01:37:05,880 --> 01:37:09,880
Speaker 1: a piece of undeveloped ground. Yeah, it's just like that's

1886
01:37:09,920 --> 01:37:13,320
Speaker 1: his opinion, and there are ways to change his opinion.

1887
01:37:13,439 --> 01:37:17,000
Speaker 1: But like if I am, let's say, because we you know,

1888
01:37:17,240 --> 01:37:19,360
Speaker 1: run a campaign that's all over the country, right, and

1889
01:37:19,439 --> 01:37:23,479
Speaker 1: we have we're trying to, let's say, try and get

1890
01:37:23,560 --> 01:37:25,679
Speaker 1: ex congressman to vote a certain way at a certain

1891
01:37:25,720 --> 01:37:29,200
Speaker 1: bill um he might have. We know his opinion, we

1892
01:37:29,240 --> 01:37:31,120
Speaker 1: know his voting record, we know what he said in

1893
01:37:31,120 --> 01:37:34,040
Speaker 1: the public and so I don't invest a lot of

1894
01:37:34,120 --> 01:37:37,719
Speaker 1: time into think you to worrying about what he thinks.

1895
01:37:38,040 --> 01:37:40,680
Speaker 1: I will get a base if I know he's a

1896
01:37:40,720 --> 01:37:43,920
Speaker 1: guy who cares what other people think. That's important to

1897
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:47,760
Speaker 1: know because that influences my strategy. If I know that

1898
01:37:47,800 --> 01:37:51,360
Speaker 1: he can't be influenced by you know, his his base

1899
01:37:51,560 --> 01:37:53,720
Speaker 1: or his big donors. Like that's also important to know.

1900
01:37:53,800 --> 01:37:55,720
Speaker 1: And if I realize that, like a guy like rat Woul,

1901
01:37:55,880 --> 01:37:57,960
Speaker 1: like no one's gonna get to him. The only way

1902
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:00,720
Speaker 1: you're gonna get to him is with like you know,

1903
01:38:01,040 --> 01:38:03,880
Speaker 1: hardball politics, it's like, great, that will influence how we

1904
01:38:03,960 --> 01:38:06,880
Speaker 1: approach him. Um, a guy like Chay Fits, who I

1905
01:38:06,920 --> 01:38:10,479
Speaker 1: would argue does care what people think about him a lot.

1906
01:38:10,880 --> 01:38:12,599
Speaker 1: It tells me a lot about how I'm an approach

1907
01:38:12,600 --> 01:38:15,400
Speaker 1: guy like that too. Um. It doesn't care much for

1908
01:38:15,479 --> 01:38:20,639
Speaker 1: dogs or good camo. We also know that, right. Uh

1909
01:38:20,720 --> 01:38:22,720
Speaker 1: So that's what I'm saying. It's like, it's not that

1910
01:38:22,800 --> 01:38:26,280
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, but I also just like, you know,

1911
01:38:27,760 --> 01:38:29,479
Speaker 1: you could just invest endless amount of time trying to

1912
01:38:29,560 --> 01:38:32,640
Speaker 1: understand why people like think a certain way, and at

1913
01:38:32,640 --> 01:38:34,479
Speaker 1: the end of the day, like, um, I think we

1914
01:38:34,479 --> 01:38:36,759
Speaker 1: should all. It doesn't mean we shouldn't have conversations about

1915
01:38:36,800 --> 01:38:39,479
Speaker 1: like why public about public lands and try and understand

1916
01:38:39,520 --> 01:38:43,120
Speaker 1: each other. That's great. Um, but you know, this public

1917
01:38:43,200 --> 01:38:46,000
Speaker 1: lands issue is a u in many ways. I do

1918
01:38:46,040 --> 01:38:48,519
Speaker 1: think it's a war over like this birthright that we've

1919
01:38:48,560 --> 01:38:51,720
Speaker 1: been given and when you're in a war side situation. Man,

1920
01:38:51,720 --> 01:38:55,599
Speaker 1: you gotta like fight fire with fire sometimes, and that's

1921
01:38:55,600 --> 01:38:58,519
Speaker 1: how you're gonna, you know, win on this issue. So

1922
01:38:59,320 --> 01:39:02,840
Speaker 1: I know that sounds super cynical in some ways out loud.

1923
01:39:02,880 --> 01:39:05,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like, man, yeah, because I think that,

1924
01:39:05,520 --> 01:39:10,040
Speaker 1: like people have guiding principles. Now, Like I spent a

1925
01:39:10,040 --> 01:39:17,560
Speaker 1: lot of my life, um, studying, practicing, uh, you know, rhetoric. Okay,

1926
01:39:17,800 --> 01:39:21,000
Speaker 1: So just just a native interest in rhetoric? Okay, How

1927
01:39:21,040 --> 01:39:24,799
Speaker 1: how do people give persuasive arguments and be persuaded? Okay,

1928
01:39:24,960 --> 01:39:26,719
Speaker 1: There's a lot of things. There's a lot of issues

1929
01:39:27,120 --> 01:39:30,280
Speaker 1: in my life that I have moved on degrees on

1930
01:39:30,520 --> 01:39:36,519
Speaker 1: same here. Yeah, but I'm telling you, um, when I like,

1931
01:39:36,560 --> 01:39:40,120
Speaker 1: you have guiding principles, okay, and a guiding principal mine, Like,

1932
01:39:40,160 --> 01:39:42,800
Speaker 1: I think a litmus test for me when I look

1933
01:39:42,840 --> 01:39:45,280
Speaker 1: at an issue is I'm always gonna ask myself, Like

1934
01:39:45,600 --> 01:39:51,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask myself what's uh on land issues, wildlife issues.

1935
01:39:51,880 --> 01:39:55,599
Speaker 1: I'm always ask myself, like what's best for hunters, fishermen

1936
01:39:55,680 --> 01:40:02,240
Speaker 1: and wildlife m and public lands? Like what's best for

1937
01:40:02,240 --> 01:40:04,840
Speaker 1: this entire package? And I'm gonna weigh that out and

1938
01:40:04,920 --> 01:40:07,080
Speaker 1: ask that question. That's gonna be my guiding thing. I

1939
01:40:07,120 --> 01:40:11,080
Speaker 1: cannot picture someone coming up and and I just don't

1940
01:40:11,080 --> 01:40:12,960
Speaker 1: think there's an argument out there that would pull me

1941
01:40:13,000 --> 01:40:16,320
Speaker 1: away from that. Yeah, but you gotta understand too, like

1942
01:40:16,680 --> 01:40:21,719
Speaker 1: you're a you put more thought into how you approach

1943
01:40:21,760 --> 01:40:25,280
Speaker 1: issues than most Americans. I would say people react, tend

1944
01:40:25,360 --> 01:40:28,920
Speaker 1: tend to react to issues emotionally, not logically right, So

1945
01:40:29,439 --> 01:40:32,639
Speaker 1: think of, um, how people react to just to bring

1946
01:40:32,680 --> 01:40:35,639
Speaker 1: up a touchy subject that we talked about last night, wolves,

1947
01:40:35,720 --> 01:40:39,160
Speaker 1: people react to wolves with an emotional response like somewhere right.

1948
01:40:39,600 --> 01:40:43,320
Speaker 1: And the same thing is true with politics. So we

1949
01:40:43,520 --> 01:40:45,760
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think we're gonna win on this

1950
01:40:45,840 --> 01:40:49,280
Speaker 1: public lands issue with like a logical argument like we

1951
01:40:49,320 --> 01:40:52,440
Speaker 1: need to articulate those we need to have an emotional

1952
01:40:52,600 --> 01:40:58,680
Speaker 1: never gonna be like, oh, yeah, what was I What

1953
01:40:58,760 --> 01:41:02,360
Speaker 1: was I talking about? I didn't realize that point. Thank

1954
01:41:02,360 --> 01:41:04,000
Speaker 1: you for pointing it out, Like I changed my mind.

1955
01:41:04,160 --> 01:41:05,920
Speaker 1: Let me go, I'm gonna I'll be back at five.

1956
01:41:05,920 --> 01:41:08,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna withdraw some legislation. Talked about it all that long,

1957
01:41:09,000 --> 01:41:13,479
Speaker 1: and I didn't see that particular graph. Yeah, and then

1958
01:41:13,760 --> 01:41:15,760
Speaker 1: and I feel like that's a shortcoming of like this

1959
01:41:15,840 --> 01:41:18,680
Speaker 1: is a shortcoming of like educated folks in general. It's

1960
01:41:18,680 --> 01:41:21,200
Speaker 1: like we we assume a worldview that's like if we

1961
01:41:21,240 --> 01:41:24,320
Speaker 1: could just talk some sense to these people, they'll get it.

1962
01:41:24,760 --> 01:41:26,280
Speaker 1: Like if I, if Ryan and I could just sit

1963
01:41:26,320 --> 01:41:29,120
Speaker 1: across the table and have a beer and just talk

1964
01:41:29,160 --> 01:41:31,080
Speaker 1: it through, like you're gonna come along and see why

1965
01:41:31,120 --> 01:41:34,040
Speaker 1: I'm right eventually here. And it's like you need an

1966
01:41:34,040 --> 01:41:35,880
Speaker 1: emotional like we need to like you, there needs to

1967
01:41:35,920 --> 01:41:37,880
Speaker 1: be a response to like this whole Bundy and not

1968
01:41:37,920 --> 01:41:40,240
Speaker 1: to go down a dark path, but like the Bunny situations,

1969
01:41:40,280 --> 01:41:43,400
Speaker 1: like people were angry, like right there, like pounding the table.

1970
01:41:43,439 --> 01:41:46,320
Speaker 1: I am piste off at this situation. Right, that's why

1971
01:41:46,360 --> 01:41:49,280
Speaker 1: they the folks went out to mount here right wrong

1972
01:41:49,400 --> 01:41:51,320
Speaker 1: or indifferent? They felt a certain way, and you can't

1973
01:41:51,360 --> 01:41:53,880
Speaker 1: tell them their their feelings are wrong. Right. That's how

1974
01:41:53,920 --> 01:41:56,240
Speaker 1: I think where we need to approach this public lands issues.

1975
01:41:56,280 --> 01:41:58,559
Speaker 1: You need to strike an emotional cord with people, help

1976
01:41:58,640 --> 01:42:02,120
Speaker 1: them understand emotionally why this matters to them. Um because

1977
01:42:02,160 --> 01:42:04,280
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, like that is how

1978
01:42:04,880 --> 01:42:06,800
Speaker 1: because think about it this way too again, It's like

1979
01:42:06,840 --> 01:42:10,120
Speaker 1: public lands have existed so far because theoretically, the American

1980
01:42:10,160 --> 01:42:14,000
Speaker 1: public want them to exist. They will only continue existing

1981
01:42:14,040 --> 01:42:16,280
Speaker 1: into the future to the extent that the American public

1982
01:42:16,840 --> 01:42:19,519
Speaker 1: like them, understand them, appreciate them, and are willing to

1983
01:42:19,560 --> 01:42:22,080
Speaker 1: stand up to fight for them when they're under attack

1984
01:42:22,120 --> 01:42:24,479
Speaker 1: like they are. Now. That is a challenge we have

1985
01:42:24,600 --> 01:42:27,160
Speaker 1: because I can tell you there is a shocking amount

1986
01:42:27,200 --> 01:42:30,400
Speaker 1: of the population that has no idea what public lands are.

1987
01:42:30,680 --> 01:42:32,040
Speaker 1: And if they don't know what they are, why are

1988
01:42:32,040 --> 01:42:34,240
Speaker 1: you going to stand up and protect them when they're threatened?

1989
01:42:34,360 --> 01:42:36,200
Speaker 1: You're not. You should be like, man, I don't even

1990
01:42:36,200 --> 01:42:38,639
Speaker 1: know what those are. Whatever, something going on in the West.

1991
01:42:38,680 --> 01:42:41,679
Speaker 1: You know, I've got my kids to deal with right now. Um,

1992
01:42:41,760 --> 01:42:44,240
Speaker 1: so there has to be you know, again, this is

1993
01:42:44,280 --> 01:42:47,080
Speaker 1: like a bigger picture like foot level. But that's how

1994
01:42:47,120 --> 01:42:49,800
Speaker 1: we've got to approach this public LANs issue. We're gonna

1995
01:42:49,800 --> 01:42:51,479
Speaker 1: went on the long run, and I think it's important

1996
01:42:51,479 --> 01:42:55,280
Speaker 1: to remember it was. It was contentious and divisive at

1997
01:42:55,280 --> 01:42:58,760
Speaker 1: the time. Oh god, the national fourth system. There was

1998
01:42:58,840 --> 01:43:01,080
Speaker 1: like like what what When Ted Roosevelt did like one

1999
01:43:01,080 --> 01:43:06,040
Speaker 1: of his biggest single creations of national forest land, there

2000
01:43:06,120 --> 01:43:11,080
Speaker 1: was legislation coming that was gonna ban him from doing

2001
01:43:11,080 --> 01:43:13,840
Speaker 1: it again, and he knew he couldn't defeat it. He

2002
01:43:13,880 --> 01:43:17,080
Speaker 1: didn't have the votes. He couldn't vetoks. He didn't have

2003
01:43:17,080 --> 01:43:19,559
Speaker 1: the votes to override or they were going to override

2004
01:43:19,560 --> 01:43:23,280
Speaker 1: the veto. He had till midnight on some night. So

2005
01:43:23,439 --> 01:43:27,719
Speaker 1: he sits down, I think, with Gifford Pinchot and some others,

2006
01:43:27,720 --> 01:43:29,599
Speaker 1: and they drew up. Was called the Midnight Forest because

2007
01:43:29,600 --> 01:43:32,599
Speaker 1: they were until midnight declares what do you make like

2008
01:43:33,120 --> 01:43:36,960
Speaker 1: seventeen forests or something forces for service system we know

2009
01:43:37,000 --> 01:43:40,600
Speaker 1: today millions of acres of land. Finalizes that and in

2010
01:43:40,720 --> 01:43:43,479
Speaker 1: signs of Bill staying he'll never do it again, crafty

2011
01:43:43,520 --> 01:43:46,120
Speaker 1: move the Midnight Forest. It's a good story if you

2012
01:43:46,160 --> 01:43:48,519
Speaker 1: read the Big Burn, phenomenal story. No, I haven't read

2013
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:50,920
Speaker 1: that Big Burn. That's good. You read that book about

2014
01:43:51,000 --> 01:43:52,800
Speaker 1: North side of forests and sort of creation the forest

2015
01:43:52,800 --> 01:43:57,360
Speaker 1: service system. Uh, Timmygan is not paying me to plug

2016
01:43:57,400 --> 01:43:59,040
Speaker 1: his book, by the way, but it's a good read

2017
01:43:59,120 --> 01:44:00,720
Speaker 1: and if you read it. We have the politics at

2018
01:44:00,720 --> 01:44:03,800
Speaker 1: the time. You could you could transfer that that time

2019
01:44:03,800 --> 01:44:06,920
Speaker 1: in the early nineteen early so like right now, it's

2020
01:44:06,960 --> 01:44:09,240
Speaker 1: like people are upset about the way you know, land

2021
01:44:09,240 --> 01:44:11,360
Speaker 1: has managed and like people are fighting over resource. It's

2022
01:44:11,400 --> 01:44:13,559
Speaker 1: like it's like going back in time, but it's like

2023
01:44:13,640 --> 01:44:17,519
Speaker 1: exactly the same. But here's my question, why is it

2024
01:44:17,640 --> 01:44:21,919
Speaker 1: so Roosevelt did that? People were pissed? Okay, business interests

2025
01:44:21,920 --> 01:44:28,760
Speaker 1: were all the same, all the same business address, mining, industry, logging, industry. Um.

2026
01:44:28,880 --> 01:44:32,200
Speaker 1: Then something happens and we go and carve his image

2027
01:44:32,240 --> 01:44:36,200
Speaker 1: into a giant mountain that gets visited by millions of

2028
01:44:36,240 --> 01:44:42,000
Speaker 1: people every summer. And he has, you know, twenty one

2029
01:44:42,080 --> 01:44:45,400
Speaker 1: whatever number of biographies written about him by some of

2030
01:44:45,479 --> 01:44:50,280
Speaker 1: the most influential historians. If you poll Americans, he's among

2031
01:44:50,560 --> 01:44:54,280
Speaker 1: the top five or top seven most popular presidents of

2032
01:44:54,320 --> 01:44:59,400
Speaker 1: all time. We have kind of decided that that was

2033
01:44:59,479 --> 01:45:02,800
Speaker 1: a good move, right. You don't just get your face

2034
01:45:02,840 --> 01:45:07,320
Speaker 1: carved in the damn mountain for nothing. It was this

2035
01:45:07,479 --> 01:45:10,920
Speaker 1: hallmark thing. So we as a nation sit back and

2036
01:45:10,960 --> 01:45:15,760
Speaker 1: go some bitch. He was fortunary, visionary, what a trip,

2037
01:45:15,840 --> 01:45:19,919
Speaker 1: what a phenomenal, Like who was this guy? Let's celebrate

2038
01:45:19,960 --> 01:45:22,519
Speaker 1: him and write books about him for a long time,

2039
01:45:22,920 --> 01:45:26,479
Speaker 1: and then uh, we'll start a bunch of ships to

2040
01:45:26,560 --> 01:45:30,479
Speaker 1: undo what he did, Like, how can we occupy both

2041
01:45:30,520 --> 01:45:34,840
Speaker 1: of these spaces as an as a nation? I don't know.

2042
01:45:35,040 --> 01:45:38,120
Speaker 1: Every politician in the country would love to be favorably

2043
01:45:38,160 --> 01:45:42,519
Speaker 1: compared to Roosevelt. Oh yeah, it's real popular. That's that's

2044
01:45:42,520 --> 01:45:43,960
Speaker 1: what I hear. Is Inky said that all the time.

2045
01:45:43,960 --> 01:45:48,559
Speaker 1: I'm tr Republican's popular. See let's see it, man, Yeah,

2046
01:45:48,960 --> 01:45:52,240
Speaker 1: prove it, let's see it. Yeah. I don't know. That's

2047
01:45:52,240 --> 01:45:54,559
Speaker 1: a good question, dude. It's just it's like, it's like

2048
01:45:56,400 --> 01:45:59,000
Speaker 1: it boggles my mind. Well, you get, you get rewarded.

2049
01:45:59,040 --> 01:46:02,280
Speaker 1: I think it's a politician for like creating things. Um right,

2050
01:46:02,320 --> 01:46:07,200
Speaker 1: it's like nobody. You don't hear many people say they

2051
01:46:07,240 --> 01:46:10,000
Speaker 1: regret the National park system, right, I don't sore many

2052
01:46:10,040 --> 01:46:12,240
Speaker 1: people like sitting around the coffee table. It's like, god damnit,

2053
01:46:12,800 --> 01:46:16,519
Speaker 1: because you think one right here, there should be a

2054
01:46:16,560 --> 01:46:20,120
Speaker 1: thing called the yellow Stone Supertag. I'm on board this

2055
01:46:21,280 --> 01:46:24,200
Speaker 1: stag and it's a lottery draw just for tourists or

2056
01:46:24,200 --> 01:46:26,840
Speaker 1: for animals. No, the yell Stone super Tag Big Game

2057
01:46:26,840 --> 01:46:28,559
Speaker 1: on and then no one could go there at all

2058
01:46:28,640 --> 01:46:31,920
Speaker 1: except for the super Tag holder. You see it's five six,

2059
01:46:32,080 --> 01:46:35,000
Speaker 1: You do a drawing, you get the Yellowstone super Tag

2060
01:46:35,040 --> 01:46:37,599
Speaker 1: Big Game Tag. That's what I think they'll be doing

2061
01:46:37,600 --> 01:46:40,559
Speaker 1: it that part. I can get behind that. You w

2062
01:46:40,800 --> 01:46:44,439
Speaker 1: work on that one. Let's take that and see how

2063
01:46:44,439 --> 01:46:49,160
Speaker 1: that happened in a hot spring. And I did call in.

2064
01:46:49,520 --> 01:46:51,240
Speaker 1: I called it a couple of a couple of turkeys

2065
01:46:51,240 --> 01:46:53,840
Speaker 1: and Zion a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, just with

2066
01:46:53,880 --> 01:46:56,920
Speaker 1: my mouth, I can actually call m and they they've

2067
01:46:56,960 --> 01:46:59,439
Speaker 1: never heard the crack of a shotgun. No, they were

2068
01:46:59,479 --> 01:47:01,400
Speaker 1: pretty tan actually, but I mean they were wild, but

2069
01:47:01,439 --> 01:47:03,240
Speaker 1: they were kind of same. But you know, we're just

2070
01:47:03,240 --> 01:47:06,519
Speaker 1: talking about Yahny, tell about where you're without giving away

2071
01:47:06,560 --> 01:47:10,719
Speaker 1: to me details, explain the the place you're just hunting

2072
01:47:10,720 --> 01:47:16,760
Speaker 1: turkeys and sort of the weird the weird collection of

2073
01:47:16,800 --> 01:47:21,880
Speaker 1: critters sharing the ground where you're just hunting turkeys. Yeah,

2074
01:47:21,920 --> 01:47:24,479
Speaker 1: we're getting ready in the mud room of a Fellas cabin,

2075
01:47:25,240 --> 01:47:28,639
Speaker 1: putting our gear on, and uh, he started doing out

2076
01:47:28,720 --> 01:47:35,599
Speaker 1: bear spray. I'm like, what turkey on? You, dumb? We're like,

2077
01:47:35,800 --> 01:47:37,920
Speaker 1: I'm like looking at across the green meadow and I

2078
01:47:37,920 --> 01:47:40,479
Speaker 1: can see a few houses around and there's I'm guessing,

2079
01:47:40,520 --> 01:47:43,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, three or four acres we might be hunting.

2080
01:47:43,120 --> 01:47:45,519
Speaker 1: The then borders some public land we might be hunting,

2081
01:47:46,240 --> 01:47:50,719
Speaker 1: and uh, horses around and He's like, yeah, right, now,

2082
01:47:51,320 --> 01:47:53,720
Speaker 1: there's probably no place in the lower forty eight where

2083
01:47:53,720 --> 01:47:57,640
Speaker 1: grizzly bears are thicker more. This guy's a grizzly bear researcher. Yeah, no,

2084
01:47:57,760 --> 01:48:02,920
Speaker 1: he deals with you know, beare human interactions. Well, all right,

2085
01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:07,000
Speaker 1: that's interesting. And then, uh, what was the other animal we'reaying, Oh,

2086
01:48:07,200 --> 01:48:10,960
Speaker 1: they're Eastern turkeys looking at gobblers that are eating on

2087
01:48:11,000 --> 01:48:14,760
Speaker 1: this h haystack that we couldn't hunt on. I had

2088
01:48:14,760 --> 01:48:16,720
Speaker 1: to wait and come off. And we're lucky. We're like, man,

2089
01:48:16,880 --> 01:48:20,680
Speaker 1: look at those tails. There's like no buff band at all,

2090
01:48:20,800 --> 01:48:24,280
Speaker 1: there's just brown. And we started looking around and sure enough,

2091
01:48:24,600 --> 01:48:27,400
Speaker 1: the Miriams didn't take and so they the next time

2092
01:48:27,400 --> 01:48:31,160
Speaker 1: they try to transplant something did Easterns. So now you

2093
01:48:31,240 --> 01:48:34,839
Speaker 1: got Eastern turkeys, grizzly bears, Eastern turkeys. They're getting preyed

2094
01:48:34,880 --> 01:48:39,360
Speaker 1: on by links, links and grizzly bear couns. Yeah, there's

2095
01:48:39,400 --> 01:48:42,240
Speaker 1: wolverines around around that country. I mean, we're on the

2096
01:48:42,360 --> 01:48:44,800
Speaker 1: edge of the Bob we're looking at it. Um. You know,

2097
01:48:44,840 --> 01:48:46,479
Speaker 1: you can look up in the mountains and see, you know,

2098
01:48:46,600 --> 01:48:49,360
Speaker 1: the edge of the Bob Marshall Wilderness. Those turkeys like

2099
01:48:49,400 --> 01:48:53,920
Speaker 1: bring me bags to Missouri. Man, I'd rather I'd rather

2100
01:48:54,000 --> 01:48:56,840
Speaker 1: deal with that. I don't know, Man, I'd probably rather face.

2101
01:48:56,920 --> 01:49:00,559
Speaker 1: I'd probably rather get away from coyotes to deal. If

2102
01:49:00,600 --> 01:49:03,120
Speaker 1: I was a turkey, I'd rather be in Lynx Country,

2103
01:49:03,560 --> 01:49:06,519
Speaker 1: Not that there's any shortage of coyotes in that area. Yeah.

2104
01:49:06,680 --> 01:49:10,000
Speaker 1: Then to have the U, the um woodsman and good

2105
01:49:10,040 --> 01:49:13,080
Speaker 1: old boys in Missouri chasing after you all, Yeah, that's

2106
01:49:13,080 --> 01:49:15,559
Speaker 1: a different grade. That's a different grade of turkey hunter

2107
01:49:15,640 --> 01:49:19,360
Speaker 1: down there, as far far as skill sets go. Many. Yeah,

2108
01:49:19,520 --> 01:49:22,519
Speaker 1: but Montana turkey not to not to dig on the west,

2109
01:49:22,600 --> 01:49:25,280
Speaker 1: but like hunt turkeys in the west, not hunting turkeys

2110
01:49:25,280 --> 01:49:31,800
Speaker 1: in the east. No. And uh, it's like it's the

2111
01:49:31,840 --> 01:49:34,639
Speaker 1: same thing with the squirrels and the rabbits outwest. People

2112
01:49:34,640 --> 01:49:38,800
Speaker 1: are just like, what squirrel out west, he'll hide on

2113
01:49:38,840 --> 01:49:41,439
Speaker 1: the side of the tree. The squirrel in the east

2114
01:49:41,479 --> 01:49:43,160
Speaker 1: is like, no, no, no, no, no no, you hide on

2115
01:49:43,240 --> 01:49:45,000
Speaker 1: top of a fat limb. You don't hide on the

2116
01:49:45,040 --> 01:49:47,479
Speaker 1: side of a tree or at the very top of

2117
01:49:47,520 --> 01:49:50,679
Speaker 1: the tree on the last bud that can support me. Yeah,

2118
01:49:50,680 --> 01:49:55,920
Speaker 1: they're like only a squirrel who was high would hide here. Um. Yeah,

2119
01:49:55,960 --> 01:49:59,240
Speaker 1: that's interesting about that spot. I think a guy a

2120
01:49:59,240 --> 01:50:01,439
Speaker 1: few years ago scratched up by a grizz who was

2121
01:50:01,479 --> 01:50:05,200
Speaker 1: hunting pheasants. But I would like to be a turkey

2122
01:50:05,240 --> 01:50:08,760
Speaker 1: hunter who got scratched by a grizz hunting turks. I

2123
01:50:09,360 --> 01:50:14,240
Speaker 1: uh years ago, was calling turkeys and heard a loud

2124
01:50:14,320 --> 01:50:20,200
Speaker 1: exhale like this, like where I thought a dude had

2125
01:50:20,280 --> 01:50:23,920
Speaker 1: come up and was like exhailing as he looked through

2126
01:50:23,960 --> 01:50:29,760
Speaker 1: my backpack, and I my head around and face the

2127
01:50:29,800 --> 01:50:32,639
Speaker 1: face of the bear who come into who was coming

2128
01:50:32,680 --> 01:50:34,960
Speaker 1: into the call. But me turning my head around and

2129
01:50:34,960 --> 01:50:36,880
Speaker 1: looking at him freaked him out more than he freaked

2130
01:50:36,920 --> 01:50:39,200
Speaker 1: me out. Man, I think, are both of our hearts collected,

2131
01:50:39,560 --> 01:50:42,840
Speaker 1: you know, kind of bear with it, black bear? But yeah,

2132
01:50:42,960 --> 01:50:46,880
Speaker 1: calling turkeys, I've called in bobcats, coyotes, black bears. My

2133
01:50:46,880 --> 01:50:50,839
Speaker 1: buddy Robert Abernathy was down in New Mexico calling turkeys.

2134
01:50:50,880 --> 01:50:52,960
Speaker 1: He's a South Carolina hunter, but he's in New Mexico

2135
01:50:53,000 --> 01:50:55,400
Speaker 1: calling turkeys. And it looks and he's on a two

2136
01:50:55,479 --> 01:50:58,960
Speaker 1: track and belly crawling down the grass strip of the

2137
01:50:58,960 --> 01:51:04,120
Speaker 1: two tracks a mountain lion whoa coming into the call.

2138
01:51:04,360 --> 01:51:07,240
Speaker 1: I got a good story of scared bears that I

2139
01:51:07,320 --> 01:51:09,160
Speaker 1: learned while I was up there a turkey hunting. This

2140
01:51:09,240 --> 01:51:13,680
Speaker 1: fella does a lot of work with camera traps, and uh,

2141
01:51:13,840 --> 01:51:16,360
Speaker 1: we're talking about grouse somehow. He says, yeah, you ever

2142
01:51:16,400 --> 01:51:19,679
Speaker 1: had just a rough grouse? Just scared of Jesus out

2143
01:51:19,680 --> 01:51:22,000
Speaker 1: of here? Right. It seems like it's almost like these

2144
01:51:22,040 --> 01:51:24,439
Speaker 1: Montana rough grouse don't flush quite as hard as the

2145
01:51:24,439 --> 01:51:27,880
Speaker 1: ones back in with content recent walk the edge edge

2146
01:51:27,920 --> 01:51:30,559
Speaker 1: of just the forests and like, you know, ten yards aways,

2147
01:51:30,600 --> 01:51:32,559
Speaker 1: like where the corn starts, and you'd be walking there

2148
01:51:32,600 --> 01:51:34,880
Speaker 1: and just kind of chilling and daydreaming, and when those

2149
01:51:34,880 --> 01:51:38,120
Speaker 1: grouse would take off at that edge, going into the forest,

2150
01:51:38,800 --> 01:51:40,320
Speaker 1: and you would tell people, oh, yeah, that was a

2151
01:51:40,360 --> 01:51:42,280
Speaker 1: bird that just flushed, and they'd be sitting there looking

2152
01:51:42,320 --> 01:51:44,720
Speaker 1: at you, why die at their heart beating out, just

2153
01:51:44,760 --> 01:51:47,360
Speaker 1: like that wasn't a bird And you tell how show

2154
01:51:47,439 --> 01:51:48,960
Speaker 1: how big it is, and they're like, no, no, no,

2155
01:51:49,240 --> 01:51:50,880
Speaker 1: it's like a herd of deer that just ran out.

2156
01:51:51,640 --> 01:51:53,280
Speaker 1: Just a little bird that flew away, you know, but

2157
01:51:53,320 --> 01:51:56,599
Speaker 1: I mean loud. Anyways, he's got a trap set up,

2158
01:51:57,160 --> 01:52:02,160
Speaker 1: camera trap, yeah, camera trap, and grizzly bear parting around

2159
01:52:02,200 --> 01:52:04,559
Speaker 1: there doing something at the rub tree or whatever he

2160
01:52:04,600 --> 01:52:06,600
Speaker 1: had it pointed at um. I think it does a

2161
01:52:06,600 --> 01:52:08,200
Speaker 1: lot of points him out a lot of rub trees

2162
01:52:08,640 --> 01:52:11,680
Speaker 1: and they roughie flushes right next to that bear. And

2163
01:52:11,720 --> 01:52:16,559
Speaker 1: he said that that grizzly bear turned inside out. Really,

2164
01:52:16,920 --> 01:52:19,559
Speaker 1: I know how he feels, man, I know how he feels.

2165
01:52:19,560 --> 01:52:23,080
Speaker 1: I got empathy for that bear. Uh all right, So

2166
01:52:23,680 --> 01:52:27,280
Speaker 1: what else, brad Well I want to touch on here?

2167
01:52:27,640 --> 01:52:30,600
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what else? How So you're talking like,

2168
01:52:30,640 --> 01:52:32,719
Speaker 1: how do we make like make it like a hot

2169
01:52:32,760 --> 01:52:35,200
Speaker 1: but emotional issues so that people fight for right? And

2170
01:52:35,200 --> 01:52:37,760
Speaker 1: you're saying how like back east people are like, yeah, whatever, man,

2171
01:52:37,880 --> 01:52:41,920
Speaker 1: munch land out west, why do I care? So like, yeah,

2172
01:52:41,760 --> 01:52:44,880
Speaker 1: why why should they care? They do care? Oh no,

2173
01:52:45,000 --> 01:52:48,040
Speaker 1: they care. Someways they care more, it's just not in

2174
01:52:48,080 --> 01:52:50,559
Speaker 1: the way should care. You've been paying for that ship

2175
01:52:50,640 --> 01:52:53,919
Speaker 1: your entire life. When you write your tax or do

2176
01:52:53,560 --> 01:52:55,639
Speaker 1: you get you pay federal taxes, so you should hang

2177
01:52:55,640 --> 01:52:56,920
Speaker 1: on to it now and go use it. Well, I

2178
01:52:56,960 --> 01:52:58,960
Speaker 1: mean the easy answered that question is like, yeah, like,

2179
01:52:59,000 --> 01:53:03,680
Speaker 1: would you give up you know million acres land you owned? No,

2180
01:53:04,200 --> 01:53:05,800
Speaker 1: you wouldn't give up even if you didn't know you

2181
01:53:05,840 --> 01:53:08,600
Speaker 1: owned it, Like, you wouldn't give it up right. Um,

2182
01:53:08,640 --> 01:53:11,160
Speaker 1: I just don't think it's it's not an issue that's

2183
01:53:10,600 --> 01:53:14,040
Speaker 1: as present in their daily lives. It's not on the

2184
01:53:14,080 --> 01:53:16,559
Speaker 1: news as much. It's not like just something they're as

2185
01:53:16,600 --> 01:53:18,800
Speaker 1: aware of. It doesn't mean they don't care. They do care.

2186
01:53:19,120 --> 01:53:22,040
Speaker 1: In fact, folks out of the east, Uh, the idea

2187
01:53:22,040 --> 01:53:24,559
Speaker 1: that they would not have they do care about parks.

2188
01:53:24,560 --> 01:53:25,800
Speaker 1: A lot of folks out to east care about the

2189
01:53:25,800 --> 01:53:29,040
Speaker 1: parks more. Um So like the idea that Yellowstone like,

2190
01:53:29,200 --> 01:53:31,880
Speaker 1: that's what resonation for them. It's like, wait minute, they

2191
01:53:31,880 --> 01:53:35,320
Speaker 1: didn't take what Yellowstone or like Yosemite. That gets in

2192
01:53:35,479 --> 01:53:39,880
Speaker 1: like real real riled up. Um. So it's not that

2193
01:53:39,920 --> 01:53:41,639
Speaker 1: they don't care. I don't want to make it sound

2194
01:53:41,680 --> 01:53:43,280
Speaker 1: like folks folks out that you must have a lot

2195
01:53:43,320 --> 01:53:45,720
Speaker 1: of Eastern listeners here. So but that's that's one of

2196
01:53:45,760 --> 01:53:48,280
Speaker 1: the ways. That's one of the ways. And uh and

2197
01:53:48,320 --> 01:53:51,880
Speaker 1: I and I've identified and talk frequently about something I

2198
01:53:51,880 --> 01:53:55,360
Speaker 1: called Yellowstone syndrome, which is like where people like everything

2199
01:53:55,360 --> 01:53:59,720
Speaker 1: they understand about land management and wildlife management the politics

2200
01:53:59,720 --> 01:54:04,640
Speaker 1: of wild life is all um framed around because they

2201
01:54:04,640 --> 01:54:07,679
Speaker 1: hear so much about Yellowstone and it corrupts their view

2202
01:54:08,240 --> 01:54:11,479
Speaker 1: of every other thing. I was just watching the nat

2203
01:54:11,479 --> 01:54:13,920
Speaker 1: GEO video the other day and it was about elk

2204
01:54:13,960 --> 01:54:18,280
Speaker 1: migrations and it's these elk. They're going, these elk that

2205
01:54:18,680 --> 01:54:20,599
Speaker 1: spend a little bit of their time in the summer.

2206
01:54:20,920 --> 01:54:23,840
Speaker 1: I've seen this. I think they're all way over in Cody,

2207
01:54:24,880 --> 01:54:26,559
Speaker 1: right and they spend a little bit of their time

2208
01:54:26,560 --> 01:54:31,880
Speaker 1: and Yellowstone And it's like about the Yellowstone Elk. I'm like, well,

2209
01:54:31,880 --> 01:54:35,360
Speaker 1: why is it about the Cody Yolk? Yeah, I know.

2210
01:54:35,400 --> 01:54:39,840
Speaker 1: It's like like everything becomes it's so, it's just that place.

2211
01:54:40,320 --> 01:54:42,440
Speaker 1: It kind of like troubles me in the way that

2212
01:54:42,800 --> 01:54:44,680
Speaker 1: so many people are just have a really hard time

2213
01:54:45,760 --> 01:54:51,080
Speaker 1: understanding that that is a piece of ground laid into

2214
01:54:51,120 --> 01:54:56,760
Speaker 1: a much larger piece of ground that that has serious

2215
01:54:56,800 --> 01:54:59,880
Speaker 1: like management issues and wildlife issues that are not just

2216
01:55:00,040 --> 01:55:02,600
Speaker 1: center on that little patch of space. People act like, oh,

2217
01:55:02,600 --> 01:55:05,920
Speaker 1: if Yellowstone is okay, everything's okay. Yeah. So but like

2218
01:55:06,000 --> 01:55:07,920
Speaker 1: here's the no I'm with you on that. Like the

2219
01:55:07,920 --> 01:55:11,920
Speaker 1: flip side of that is like if your only experience

2220
01:55:11,960 --> 01:55:14,480
Speaker 1: in public land is like, if you don't have any

2221
01:55:14,480 --> 01:55:16,800
Speaker 1: experience of public land, it's really hard for you to

2222
01:55:16,880 --> 01:55:18,920
Speaker 1: understand what it is and why do you care about it.

2223
01:55:18,920 --> 01:55:21,640
Speaker 1: But if you've been to Yellowstone and you loved it,

2224
01:55:22,040 --> 01:55:25,440
Speaker 1: so you're a city person um somewhere, and like you've

2225
01:55:25,480 --> 01:55:27,840
Speaker 1: been to Yellowstone twice or whatever, you do the national

2226
01:55:27,840 --> 01:55:31,680
Speaker 1: park circuit and that's your introduction to public lands, and

2227
01:55:31,760 --> 01:55:34,080
Speaker 1: that's what makes you care about public lands and get

2228
01:55:34,120 --> 01:55:36,600
Speaker 1: angry when somebody tries to take them away. I don't

2229
01:55:36,600 --> 01:55:38,680
Speaker 1: think people make the jump. You don't think so. I

2230
01:55:39,920 --> 01:55:43,720
Speaker 1: think they care about Oh that's interesting, that's your theory.

2231
01:55:44,320 --> 01:55:47,200
Speaker 1: I feel that that's the case, and they think. You

2232
01:55:47,280 --> 01:55:49,400
Speaker 1: think that's like people think like all wildlife is like

2233
01:55:49,440 --> 01:55:52,000
Speaker 1: a theme park, like it is in Yellowstone, and that's

2234
01:55:52,000 --> 01:55:54,600
Speaker 1: like I think. I think it contributes to the thing

2235
01:55:54,640 --> 01:55:56,840
Speaker 1: I railed about all the time is people who look

2236
01:55:56,920 --> 01:55:59,360
Speaker 1: at wildlife and they view it as a relic of

2237
01:55:59,400 --> 01:56:02,840
Speaker 1: the past. It's like and it's like like a museum.

2238
01:56:02,960 --> 01:56:05,600
Speaker 1: It's like yellow Stones, like a little museum where you

2239
01:56:05,640 --> 01:56:09,120
Speaker 1: go to view this like this this remnant relic of

2240
01:56:09,160 --> 01:56:11,880
Speaker 1: the past that doesn't really have any implications or pertained

2241
01:56:11,920 --> 01:56:14,640
Speaker 1: to our lives today. Yeah. No, I think that's fair.

2242
01:56:14,720 --> 01:56:16,440
Speaker 1: I think. But it also does give you at least

2243
01:56:16,440 --> 01:56:19,160
Speaker 1: a baseline. Then if you were to like, you know,

2244
01:56:19,280 --> 01:56:22,800
Speaker 1: be able to circle back around with those people and say, oh, yeah,

2245
01:56:22,840 --> 01:56:25,520
Speaker 1: so you know you're familiar with this thing called Yellowstone,

2246
01:56:25,680 --> 01:56:29,200
Speaker 1: Well guess what, there's also like other millions and on

2247
01:56:29,200 --> 01:56:31,000
Speaker 1: the other side of the road and walk up and

2248
01:56:31,040 --> 01:56:33,160
Speaker 1: it's all the same ship excep. There's no people there,

2249
01:56:33,440 --> 01:56:37,920
Speaker 1: right right, yeah, Lee Metcalf. It's it's like your own

2250
01:56:37,960 --> 01:56:41,120
Speaker 1: private Yellowstone, right yeah, at least at that point, and

2251
01:56:41,200 --> 01:56:43,480
Speaker 1: they're kind of like, oh okay, really so because then

2252
01:56:43,520 --> 01:56:45,440
Speaker 1: you don't got to ask a park range of permission

2253
01:56:45,440 --> 01:56:47,360
Speaker 1: to look the other direction. Now, I'm gonna be a

2254
01:56:47,360 --> 01:56:50,160
Speaker 1: heretic for saying this as someone works with Wilder and study,

2255
01:56:50,160 --> 01:56:53,680
Speaker 1: but like, I'm not like, man, parks are wonderful, um,

2256
01:56:53,920 --> 01:56:57,160
Speaker 1: really great, love the parks, but I'm not like someone

2257
01:56:57,240 --> 01:56:59,320
Speaker 1: who when I'm picking a place to go, like picks

2258
01:56:59,360 --> 01:57:02,640
Speaker 1: parks to go and I just like the whole like

2259
01:57:02,720 --> 01:57:05,200
Speaker 1: theme park experience is just not my idea of an experience.

2260
01:57:05,520 --> 01:57:07,960
Speaker 1: We were joking we were in Zion that we felt

2261
01:57:07,960 --> 01:57:09,680
Speaker 1: like we should have been getting paid because we were

2262
01:57:09,720 --> 01:57:11,760
Speaker 1: doing some climbing and the busses would drive by and

2263
01:57:11,760 --> 01:57:13,560
Speaker 1: you could see us every day, you know, and the

2264
01:57:13,600 --> 01:57:15,640
Speaker 1: buses would stop and like, I think tours should get

2265
01:57:15,640 --> 01:57:17,600
Speaker 1: out and like take photos of us, Like across the canyon.

2266
01:57:17,880 --> 01:57:20,160
Speaker 1: You were an attraction. We were in attraction and we

2267
01:57:20,160 --> 01:57:21,560
Speaker 1: went buddy and now were like we should be getting

2268
01:57:21,560 --> 01:57:24,440
Speaker 1: paid by the damn park Service to entertain these people

2269
01:57:24,440 --> 01:57:26,080
Speaker 1: over here, because they're like looking for us to fall

2270
01:57:26,120 --> 01:57:29,280
Speaker 1: down and die. You know, I feel like climber. Yeah,

2271
01:57:29,760 --> 01:57:31,720
Speaker 1: so I was like waiting for like, I was like,

2272
01:57:31,800 --> 01:57:33,320
Speaker 1: I know everyone down there is like I wonder if

2273
01:57:33,360 --> 01:57:37,920
Speaker 1: they're gonna fall today. You know, this could be the

2274
01:57:38,000 --> 01:57:41,000
Speaker 1: day everybody, I know, you might just fall. Everybody and

2275
01:57:41,160 --> 01:57:43,480
Speaker 1: on your left over here, everybody, get out your cameras.

2276
01:57:43,480 --> 01:57:45,640
Speaker 1: You might be lucky enough to see a climber falling

2277
01:57:45,680 --> 01:57:50,720
Speaker 1: from the cliffs over here. So but yeah, they're different. Alright.

2278
01:57:50,760 --> 01:57:57,680
Speaker 1: So yeah, concluders low elevation wilderness. Can you talk about

2279
01:57:57,840 --> 01:58:03,200
Speaker 1: what this is your conclud wilderness? Like concluding question? Yeah, yeah,

2280
01:58:03,200 --> 01:58:05,360
Speaker 1: I'm very interesting because in Colorado, especially where I spent

2281
01:58:05,560 --> 01:58:10,080
Speaker 1: a lot of time living and uh hunting and enjoying

2282
01:58:10,160 --> 01:58:13,360
Speaker 1: public lands, is like all that wilderness is you know,

2283
01:58:13,560 --> 01:58:17,720
Speaker 1: high elevation. Um, certainly humans do enjoy in the wintertime,

2284
01:58:17,760 --> 01:58:19,640
Speaker 1: but you know, not many animals up there in the winter,

2285
01:58:19,920 --> 01:58:21,920
Speaker 1: and then they get you know, they come out of there,

2286
01:58:22,160 --> 01:58:26,440
Speaker 1: and it's all that like winter range is uh private,

2287
01:58:26,960 --> 01:58:28,760
Speaker 1: and it seems like it'd be nice if we could

2288
01:58:28,760 --> 01:58:32,960
Speaker 1: have like a nice balance you know, high elevation low elevation.

2289
01:58:33,040 --> 01:58:34,640
Speaker 1: So is that something that you guys think about, is

2290
01:58:34,640 --> 01:58:38,200
Speaker 1: like trying to get more low elevation wilderness. Was there

2291
01:58:38,200 --> 01:58:42,280
Speaker 1: ever talk of like trading because obviously these mountain bikers

2292
01:58:42,320 --> 01:58:43,840
Speaker 1: like man, I just want to rap my bike over

2293
01:58:43,880 --> 01:58:46,600
Speaker 1: that fourteen thousand foot peak. Well, so why don't we

2294
01:58:46,640 --> 01:58:49,360
Speaker 1: just carve off that and like trade it up for

2295
01:58:49,880 --> 01:58:52,960
Speaker 1: a bunch of stage brush? Are big, like a big

2296
01:58:53,000 --> 01:58:57,480
Speaker 1: major riparian area wilderness area, that'd be interesting because it

2297
01:58:57,520 --> 01:59:01,720
Speaker 1: doesn't exist, right. You know, that's a very like like

2298
01:59:01,880 --> 01:59:07,120
Speaker 1: cutting question. We talked about a lot you should you

2299
01:59:07,120 --> 01:59:08,840
Speaker 1: should probably have like you could pay you as a

2300
01:59:08,840 --> 01:59:11,680
Speaker 1: consultant to like come like just for the big guy,

2301
01:59:11,720 --> 01:59:14,800
Speaker 1: do you Yeah, um, yeah, I'll have my guy cow

2302
01:59:14,840 --> 01:59:17,520
Speaker 1: call you. We have like you know, we have a

2303
01:59:17,560 --> 01:59:19,760
Speaker 1: team of scientists who think about this kind of stuff

2304
01:59:19,800 --> 01:59:21,920
Speaker 1: and yeah, absolutely, like most of the wilderness in the

2305
01:59:22,000 --> 01:59:24,080
Speaker 1: US is rocking that we call rocket eyes that's a

2306
01:59:24,160 --> 01:59:28,120
Speaker 1: relic of if you think of areas that are suitable

2307
01:59:28,160 --> 01:59:32,280
Speaker 1: for wilderness are areas that we're probably either too difficult

2308
01:59:32,280 --> 01:59:35,880
Speaker 1: to get to um for like resource extraction or roads, right,

2309
01:59:36,240 --> 01:59:39,400
Speaker 1: and so the steep the rugged country, they don't you know,

2310
01:59:39,440 --> 01:59:41,680
Speaker 1: it doesn't produce trees as well, harder to get to.

2311
01:59:42,080 --> 01:59:45,360
Speaker 1: Those are the areas that present day are either designated

2312
01:59:45,400 --> 01:59:47,920
Speaker 1: wilderness or we're still suitable for wilderness, which is why

2313
01:59:48,160 --> 01:59:51,240
Speaker 1: there's a lot of high altitude wilderness. Because the elder Leopold,

2314
01:59:51,240 --> 01:59:55,680
Speaker 1: when he proposed the first wilderness area, was pointing out

2315
01:59:55,680 --> 02:00:00,080
Speaker 1: an area where he said, really it's greatest value and

2316
02:00:00,160 --> 02:00:02,800
Speaker 1: at this time, like its only value is just in

2317
02:00:02,880 --> 02:00:07,240
Speaker 1: it being wilderness. There's no other possible better thing for it.

2318
02:00:07,320 --> 02:00:08,800
Speaker 1: And that was kind of like how he sold it.

2319
02:00:09,160 --> 02:00:10,640
Speaker 1: And people are like, oh, yeah, it's got a point

2320
02:00:10,640 --> 02:00:12,680
Speaker 1: and i's gonna do ship in there. Let's make it

2321
02:00:12,680 --> 02:00:14,680
Speaker 1: a wilderness. Yeah, that's a lot of as I hear

2322
02:00:14,720 --> 02:00:16,440
Speaker 1: people say, it's like it's useless any well, let's just

2323
02:00:16,440 --> 02:00:19,240
Speaker 1: make a wilderness. You know he turned out, Yeah, he

2324
02:00:19,280 --> 02:00:23,920
Speaker 1: took that thinking and manipulated it into wilderness area and

2325
02:00:23,960 --> 02:00:26,560
Speaker 1: I did work on right. Hunter Aldo Leopold, he's a

2326
02:00:26,560 --> 02:00:30,480
Speaker 1: great owner. Um. Uh. Y Canyon Lands in Idaho worked

2327
02:00:30,480 --> 02:00:32,800
Speaker 1: on that. That's a wilderness area in the desert southern Idaho.

2328
02:00:32,880 --> 02:00:37,720
Speaker 1: It's like five thousand acres founder seventeen thousand wizards desert wilderness. Um,

2329
02:00:37,880 --> 02:00:42,440
Speaker 1: big lonely desert too. Um. So there is some elevation wilderness.

2330
02:00:42,480 --> 02:00:45,400
Speaker 1: It's harder because that's also when you look at this historically,

2331
02:00:45,400 --> 02:00:48,040
Speaker 1: the places people homesteaded, they didn't homestead where there wasn't

2332
02:00:48,040 --> 02:00:50,960
Speaker 1: any water. They homesteaded places where they wanted the land

2333
02:00:51,000 --> 02:00:52,680
Speaker 1: with the water because that was you need to you know,

2334
02:00:52,720 --> 02:00:57,200
Speaker 1: for cows, or took out the best timber grounds. So, um,

2335
02:00:57,520 --> 02:01:00,400
Speaker 1: it's harder. There are fewer options for lower eil elevation.

2336
02:01:00,440 --> 02:01:03,360
Speaker 1: But there's quite a bit of like desert suitable wilderness

2337
02:01:03,400 --> 02:01:05,360
Speaker 1: in the US, and it's something we think about all

2338
02:01:05,400 --> 02:01:07,520
Speaker 1: the time. It's like, how do we diversify the wilderness

2339
02:01:07,520 --> 02:01:12,080
Speaker 1: system so it has a good representation across the boarder. Yeah. Absolutely. Um.

2340
02:01:12,280 --> 02:01:16,040
Speaker 1: Clear Water Country in North Idaho, UM good example. Uh.

2341
02:01:16,320 --> 02:01:20,200
Speaker 1: You know, relatively low. It's like inland, temperate forest. I

2342
02:01:20,240 --> 02:01:21,920
Speaker 1: don't know if you spend much time in the clear Water,

2343
02:01:22,600 --> 02:01:26,880
Speaker 1: but you know, big huge roadless country, lower elevation, a

2344
02:01:26,920 --> 02:01:30,320
Speaker 1: lot of recommended suitable wilderness UF. There would be a

2345
02:01:30,320 --> 02:01:32,560
Speaker 1: good addition to the system. And for no other reason

2346
02:01:32,640 --> 02:01:35,720
Speaker 1: then there aren't a lot of other ecosystems that are

2347
02:01:35,720 --> 02:01:39,520
Speaker 1: sort of lower elevation kind of that big cedar country, UM,

2348
02:01:39,640 --> 02:01:42,160
Speaker 1: that thick forest. UM. Not a lot of that country

2349
02:01:42,200 --> 02:01:46,640
Speaker 1: is designated wilderness. UM. So we do when we're on

2350
02:01:46,680 --> 02:01:50,080
Speaker 1: Star Wars. It does. There's some cedar grows up there

2351
02:01:50,160 --> 02:01:53,040
Speaker 1: that blew my mind. I'd never seen like, you know,

2352
02:01:53,280 --> 02:01:56,640
Speaker 1: gigantic cedar trees. Do. I remember driving over from like

2353
02:01:56,840 --> 02:01:59,880
Speaker 1: just crossing over into that stuff where you come over

2354
02:01:59,920 --> 02:02:01,960
Speaker 1: the bit roots to drop down the other side and

2355
02:02:02,600 --> 02:02:04,520
Speaker 1: just feel like you like feeling like you drove a

2356
02:02:04,560 --> 02:02:07,600
Speaker 1: thousand miles yea when you hit there, saying like, holy shit,

2357
02:02:07,720 --> 02:02:10,120
Speaker 1: this is over here. Yeah, just looking at the other

2358
02:02:10,160 --> 02:02:12,520
Speaker 1: side of the hill for ten years and had no idea. Man,

2359
02:02:12,680 --> 02:02:14,440
Speaker 1: you know, it feels like you're on the coast. I

2360
02:02:14,440 --> 02:02:17,160
Speaker 1: mean there's a lot of coastal species over there too,

2361
02:02:17,520 --> 02:02:19,840
Speaker 1: tree species. So yeah, I don't know if I answer

2362
02:02:19,840 --> 02:02:22,040
Speaker 1: your question, but like, yes, we think about it, Yes,

2363
02:02:22,080 --> 02:02:26,040
Speaker 1: we work on it. Um. It's hard. It's hard. Still

2364
02:02:26,080 --> 02:02:27,760
Speaker 1: working on it. Check back in a couple of years

2365
02:02:27,760 --> 02:02:32,040
Speaker 1: and maybe I'll have some better news. Cool. Thank you,

2366
02:02:33,080 --> 02:02:41,400
Speaker 1: that was good. Um uh boy. I hunt t shirts. Uh,

2367
02:02:41,920 --> 02:02:46,200
Speaker 1: preferably one that says animal rights activists, that is a

2368
02:02:46,320 --> 02:02:50,680
Speaker 1: hunting theme shirt. I find myself off and talking about

2369
02:02:50,720 --> 02:02:56,120
Speaker 1: the conundrum that I appreciate these animals surely more than

2370
02:02:56,200 --> 02:02:59,320
Speaker 1: anyone else. Oh, I got you, taking the old turning

2371
02:02:59,320 --> 02:03:02,280
Speaker 1: it around, but occasionally, man, I like to stuff one

2372
02:03:02,280 --> 02:03:08,760
Speaker 1: in the freezer, sticking it. Yeah. Man, I support from

2373
02:03:08,840 --> 02:03:12,240
Speaker 1: him absolutely, the term from them like they did to us.

2374
02:03:13,280 --> 02:03:16,440
Speaker 1: That's good. What do you think about that? Environmentalist the

2375
02:03:16,480 --> 02:03:21,000
Speaker 1: animal rights activists? There will be a new line sign

2376
02:03:21,080 --> 02:03:23,880
Speaker 1: here and it could be like the X on your

2377
02:03:23,920 --> 02:03:29,480
Speaker 1: conservation license. Yeah like that. That's good man, that's good thinking,

2378
02:03:30,160 --> 02:03:35,120
Speaker 1: thanks Steve. Anything else you can have a bigger including

2379
02:03:35,120 --> 02:03:38,640
Speaker 1: thought than that, I'd categorize that as a joke, offhand joke,

2380
02:03:40,360 --> 02:03:44,680
Speaker 1: not that you need to have a bigger computer. No, yeah,

2381
02:03:44,880 --> 02:03:46,960
Speaker 1: I mean we just kind of gotta keep an open

2382
02:03:47,000 --> 02:03:50,880
Speaker 1: mind on this different types of use and the fact

2383
02:03:50,920 --> 02:03:53,879
Speaker 1: that you know, these federally managed lands or managed for everyone.

2384
02:03:53,880 --> 02:03:59,520
Speaker 1: And um and I agree with with Brad where it's like,

2385
02:03:59,560 --> 02:04:02,560
Speaker 1: we gotta tugget some heart strings and open some minds,

2386
02:04:03,360 --> 02:04:08,640
Speaker 1: um and probably vote some folks out of office by

2387
02:04:08,680 --> 02:04:11,000
Speaker 1: bringing new folks into office if we're gonna win this

2388
02:04:11,360 --> 02:04:13,960
Speaker 1: public lands battle, because it's it's a legit deal and

2389
02:04:14,080 --> 02:04:20,520
Speaker 1: it's um. Certainly where those are public lands are the

2390
02:04:20,640 --> 02:04:22,720
Speaker 1: lands that I appreciate the most. You know, let's what

2391
02:04:22,880 --> 02:04:28,720
Speaker 1: shaped me. For better words, he has uh has first light?

2392
02:04:28,960 --> 02:04:32,200
Speaker 1: Have you guys had has never been like any like

2393
02:04:32,600 --> 02:04:35,640
Speaker 1: big kind of like important kind of blowback for you

2394
02:04:35,680 --> 02:04:39,360
Speaker 1: guys being involved in like advocacy for public lands in

2395
02:04:39,440 --> 02:04:42,200
Speaker 1: the political sphere, like in your in your guys home

2396
02:04:42,280 --> 02:04:46,400
Speaker 1: state Idaho. There has not been not that one has

2397
02:04:46,440 --> 02:04:48,240
Speaker 1: ever said like what in the world you boys doing.

2398
02:04:48,360 --> 02:04:50,440
Speaker 1: Nobody knocked on the door and said, oh, yeah, you

2399
02:04:50,440 --> 02:04:55,520
Speaker 1: guys forgot to pay these taxes. So you guys have

2400
02:04:55,560 --> 02:04:57,880
Speaker 1: never had someone say like, what what's up? What's up

2401
02:04:57,920 --> 02:05:00,960
Speaker 1: with this? No, we have not. I mean truthfully, we

2402
02:05:01,120 --> 02:05:09,080
Speaker 1: get feedback constantly, I mean every every day saying you know,

2403
02:05:09,160 --> 02:05:11,040
Speaker 1: you guys make a great shirt. These guys make a

2404
02:05:11,040 --> 02:05:13,040
Speaker 1: great shirt, but about this from you because of what

2405
02:05:13,080 --> 02:05:18,120
Speaker 1: you guys do for public lands. So yeah, so yeah,

2406
02:05:18,160 --> 02:05:22,400
Speaker 1: and animal rights and animal rights that's right, um, and

2407
02:05:22,400 --> 02:05:24,640
Speaker 1: and I like you you don't do it with all

2408
02:05:24,680 --> 02:05:30,280
Speaker 1: that that sanctimonious goody twissue is UM type activism that

2409
02:05:30,320 --> 02:05:35,440
Speaker 1: you associate with Patagonia. Yeah, like the founder is like

2410
02:05:35,440 --> 02:05:38,000
Speaker 1: like he's kind of like a half closeted hunter and

2411
02:05:38,120 --> 02:05:40,960
Speaker 1: you know, and it's just you guys got a good

2412
02:05:40,960 --> 02:05:44,320
Speaker 1: way of doing it. I appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah, so no,

2413
02:05:44,600 --> 02:05:49,480
Speaker 1: there hasn't UM. You know, we certainly take emails and

2414
02:05:50,120 --> 02:05:54,640
Speaker 1: phone calls and stuff to the negative UM seriously and

2415
02:05:54,640 --> 02:05:57,400
Speaker 1: and I try to field all that stuff myself. And

2416
02:05:57,720 --> 02:06:00,960
Speaker 1: but Jenny Hunters are like, hey, man, like you guys

2417
02:06:01,000 --> 02:06:03,040
Speaker 1: are it's cool that you guys are making a stand

2418
02:06:03,080 --> 02:06:06,480
Speaker 1: and yep yeah, and uh yeah, I've had some real

2419
02:06:06,680 --> 02:06:12,040
Speaker 1: serious conversations UM with folks, especially UM, you know, just

2420
02:06:12,400 --> 02:06:18,840
Speaker 1: my personal media stuff. I spoke up about UM the

2421
02:06:19,080 --> 02:06:24,560
Speaker 1: HR and and definitely had had some people say, now

2422
02:06:26,800 --> 02:06:30,680
Speaker 1: what exactly do you mean by this? Yeah? Yeah, which

2423
02:06:30,720 --> 02:06:33,640
Speaker 1: is great because the thing that I think is dying

2424
02:06:33,680 --> 02:06:36,720
Speaker 1: the most and why I appreciate so much and thank

2425
02:06:36,760 --> 02:06:40,520
Speaker 1: you for uh ask me to be on these podcasts

2426
02:06:40,520 --> 02:06:44,840
Speaker 1: on occasion is the conversation and we're losing it. Discourse, Yeah,

2427
02:06:45,000 --> 02:06:49,040
Speaker 1: discourses that'll die in thing. I like discourse, and then

2428
02:06:49,120 --> 02:06:59,320
Speaker 1: I like the other kind of course. What do you mean, Brad,

2429
02:06:59,320 --> 02:07:02,920
Speaker 1: you gotta conclude thought. I'm spent. I got no concluding thoughts.

2430
02:07:03,920 --> 02:07:05,720
Speaker 1: Do a pitch for your do a pitch for world

2431
02:07:05,760 --> 02:07:08,880
Speaker 1: or society? Man? Tell people, are you do? You do

2432
02:07:08,920 --> 02:07:12,280
Speaker 1: whatever you want I do. I'll pitch a much stuff.

2433
02:07:12,960 --> 02:07:15,560
Speaker 1: I gotta concluding thoughts, including question, Yeah, you have a

2434
02:07:15,560 --> 02:07:20,720
Speaker 1: two year old almost two? Yeah, almost two? You're married? Good? Um, okay,

2435
02:07:20,760 --> 02:07:24,200
Speaker 1: go ahead. I like I like to see Mary. I

2436
02:07:24,280 --> 02:07:28,480
Speaker 1: like to see fellows married. Man. I love being married people.

2437
02:07:28,520 --> 02:07:30,360
Speaker 1: I like to see people. I like to see people married.

2438
02:07:30,440 --> 02:07:32,160
Speaker 1: Like to see him have kids. Best thing I ever did.

2439
02:07:33,200 --> 02:07:35,880
Speaker 1: People always dogging on marriage, but and like I love.

2440
02:07:36,240 --> 02:07:38,120
Speaker 1: If you dog on marriage, you don't know what you're

2441
02:07:38,120 --> 02:07:40,360
Speaker 1: talking about. Man, That's what I say. The amount of time,

2442
02:07:40,520 --> 02:07:42,240
Speaker 1: it's like people like, oh, it takes so much time.

2443
02:07:42,400 --> 02:07:46,880
Speaker 1: It's like it saves you so much bullshit that you

2444
02:07:46,880 --> 02:07:50,440
Speaker 1: don't need to be involved in. Besides all besides all

2445
02:07:50,440 --> 02:07:52,160
Speaker 1: this stuff about like love and all that, which I'm

2446
02:07:52,200 --> 02:07:54,880
Speaker 1: a firm believer in. But just like the noise that

2447
02:07:54,920 --> 02:07:58,240
Speaker 1: it takes out of your life just cause benefit analysis. Really,

2448
02:07:58,240 --> 02:08:00,400
Speaker 1: He's look, I don't know what I like. I don't

2449
02:08:00,400 --> 02:08:02,800
Speaker 1: know what I'm focused on. I know it's important to me,

2450
02:08:03,160 --> 02:08:04,920
Speaker 1: and I know all the junk I don't need to do,

2451
02:08:05,040 --> 02:08:08,640
Speaker 1: like spending all my money in bars, being all hone

2452
02:08:08,680 --> 02:08:10,960
Speaker 1: over all the time, trying to find girlfriends and bars.

2453
02:08:11,480 --> 02:08:13,480
Speaker 1: That isn't doing any good. Yeah, you think i'd be

2454
02:08:13,520 --> 02:08:16,440
Speaker 1: done with my remodel an extra set hands around. Dude,

2455
02:08:16,440 --> 02:08:18,240
Speaker 1: if you were married, your remodel would have been done

2456
02:08:18,280 --> 02:08:22,280
Speaker 1: within a month. Yeah. Yeah, somebody keeping you on the task. Yeah,

2457
02:08:22,320 --> 02:08:26,000
Speaker 1: if you're like, oh that's going down with the what's

2458
02:08:26,000 --> 02:08:29,320
Speaker 1: his beers I heard about? Yeah, you'd be done with it. Yeah.

2459
02:08:29,600 --> 02:08:32,080
Speaker 1: Someone would be pissed at you until you got done

2460
02:08:32,080 --> 02:08:36,320
Speaker 1: with it. Motivation, and then they'd be happy forever once

2461
02:08:36,320 --> 02:08:39,080
Speaker 1: I was done and you had eternal listen until you died.

2462
02:08:40,800 --> 02:08:43,920
Speaker 1: Um alright, so yeah, make tell people what? Tell me

2463
02:08:44,000 --> 02:08:45,480
Speaker 1: what what they ought to do? Like, what if they

2464
02:08:45,480 --> 02:08:50,440
Speaker 1: want to be curious if they're curious about you guys? Um? Yeah,

2465
02:08:50,480 --> 02:08:54,480
Speaker 1: so uh. I would say a couple of things. One

2466
02:08:54,600 --> 02:08:57,600
Speaker 1: is like pay attention, don't listen to what your elected

2467
02:08:57,640 --> 02:09:00,520
Speaker 1: officials tell you pay attention to how they vote because

2468
02:09:00,520 --> 02:09:03,360
Speaker 1: how they vote matters, and if they don't vote, he'll

2469
02:09:03,400 --> 02:09:05,840
Speaker 1: be sneaky with votes. It will be sneaky with votes.

2470
02:09:06,040 --> 02:09:09,000
Speaker 1: Don't listen to like with coming out of their mouth,

2471
02:09:09,440 --> 02:09:12,720
Speaker 1: slick like salesman pitch like, look at their voting record.

2472
02:09:12,720 --> 02:09:15,920
Speaker 1: It's not hard to do. Um. And then if public

2473
02:09:16,000 --> 02:09:19,200
Speaker 1: lands or something you care about, and you vote for

2474
02:09:19,240 --> 02:09:22,560
Speaker 1: somebody that votes against public LANs, you ought to think

2475
02:09:22,600 --> 02:09:25,560
Speaker 1: about your values and think long and hard about what's

2476
02:09:25,560 --> 02:09:29,000
Speaker 1: important to you. That's my plea to people, if you

2477
02:09:29,040 --> 02:09:31,760
Speaker 1: want them. Yeah, I wish hunters were as like I

2478
02:09:31,800 --> 02:09:35,600
Speaker 1: wish hunters were like is rigid about that? Is? They

2479
02:09:35,640 --> 02:09:39,880
Speaker 1: are about someone who wants like curtail your gun rights. Yeah,

2480
02:09:40,040 --> 02:09:42,600
Speaker 1: we'll go after him bad. Right Totally. You should be

2481
02:09:42,640 --> 02:09:46,400
Speaker 1: like yep, and if you try to curtail my landownership rights,

2482
02:09:46,440 --> 02:09:49,480
Speaker 1: I'm coming. That's what I vote. Yeah. It's like very

2483
02:09:49,480 --> 02:09:53,919
Speaker 1: black and white. Simple. How you on public LANs um

2484
02:09:53,960 --> 02:09:56,920
Speaker 1: and will learn society? Uh, check us out, check us

2485
02:09:56,920 --> 02:09:58,920
Speaker 1: out on a website, um to a fair to reach

2486
02:09:58,960 --> 02:10:00,440
Speaker 1: out to me. You can track me down through our

2487
02:10:00,480 --> 02:10:02,600
Speaker 1: website if you have any questions about what we do.

2488
02:10:03,120 --> 02:10:05,960
Speaker 1: Um or if you need to if you need that

2489
02:10:06,040 --> 02:10:11,440
Speaker 1: route from last year's death hike. I got that too, Yeah,

2490
02:10:11,440 --> 02:10:13,000
Speaker 1: I got that. Put it asked for the big bullets,

2491
02:10:13,040 --> 02:10:16,000
Speaker 1: I am selling that. By the way, those GPS coordinates. Uh,

2492
02:10:16,360 --> 02:10:19,520
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure he's safe. Um Can I want to

2493
02:10:19,560 --> 02:10:21,840
Speaker 1: bring up something real quick as I have a conundrum.

2494
02:10:22,040 --> 02:10:26,000
Speaker 1: Did you how never mind? I need to find out

2495
02:10:26,000 --> 02:10:27,200
Speaker 1: more before I bring it up. I need to find

2496
02:10:27,200 --> 02:10:28,680
Speaker 1: out more about it. I don't know't know if about

2497
02:10:28,680 --> 02:10:31,760
Speaker 1: it to bring it upright? H Can I plug? Can

2498
02:10:31,800 --> 02:10:36,320
Speaker 1: I plug our golly? Check us out on if you

2499
02:10:36,320 --> 02:10:38,480
Speaker 1: want to see what we're doing in my hunting world.

2500
02:10:39,000 --> 02:10:41,760
Speaker 1: That name come from our golly. It's uh. I mean

2501
02:10:41,800 --> 02:10:43,600
Speaker 1: it's just the name of a species that I like.

2502
02:10:44,040 --> 02:10:48,280
Speaker 1: Um kind of like species of sheep Marco polo. Where

2503
02:10:48,280 --> 02:10:53,760
Speaker 1: does it live? Mostly in like Middle East? Um? I

2504
02:10:53,800 --> 02:10:55,080
Speaker 1: don't know if I ever get to hunt once on

2505
02:10:55,120 --> 02:10:58,720
Speaker 1: my bucket list. Um so, But yeah, I like the

2506
02:10:59,040 --> 02:11:01,920
Speaker 1: look of the animal, like the name got nice cadence

2507
02:11:01,960 --> 02:11:05,760
Speaker 1: to it. Um So we name the company after a species. Um.

2508
02:11:05,920 --> 02:11:08,160
Speaker 1: But you can check us out and uh kind of

2509
02:11:08,160 --> 02:11:11,240
Speaker 1: see some of the ore. We have a conservation focused

2510
02:11:11,240 --> 02:11:13,480
Speaker 1: mission which I think makes separates us a little bit

2511
02:11:13,480 --> 02:11:16,080
Speaker 1: from pretty much everybody else. Like everything we do is

2512
02:11:16,080 --> 02:11:20,720
Speaker 1: in service of conservation of wild public lands. UM. So

2513
02:11:21,000 --> 02:11:23,160
Speaker 1: you can check us out our Galley Outdoors dot com

2514
02:11:23,240 --> 02:11:26,600
Speaker 1: and see we got going on. As in, like all

2515
02:11:26,640 --> 02:11:31,839
Speaker 1: your profits are going towards them. We we we exist

2516
02:11:32,640 --> 02:11:37,200
Speaker 1: to serve a conservation focused mission. That means we give money,

2517
02:11:37,240 --> 02:11:40,160
Speaker 1: we give our time. But like everything we're doing, I

2518
02:11:40,240 --> 02:11:42,880
Speaker 1: view it through the lens of is this furthering our

2519
02:11:42,960 --> 02:11:47,160
Speaker 1: mission to protect wild hunting experiences? If it isn't, it's easy.

2520
02:11:47,160 --> 02:11:49,560
Speaker 1: It's an easy choice. Now we have like an online

2521
02:11:49,560 --> 02:11:52,680
Speaker 1: gear shop, It's like that's a that's where we carry

2522
02:11:52,720 --> 02:11:54,600
Speaker 1: products people I think people want to use go back

2523
02:11:54,600 --> 02:11:57,280
Speaker 1: and country hunting with. But that is in service of

2524
02:11:57,640 --> 02:11:59,280
Speaker 1: the way I look at it, is in service of

2525
02:11:59,320 --> 02:12:02,400
Speaker 1: our missions. Oh, that allows us to give money to causes,

2526
02:12:02,720 --> 02:12:05,400
Speaker 1: allows me to spend more time working on you know,

2527
02:12:05,680 --> 02:12:09,040
Speaker 1: conservation wild hunting experiences. UM. We have like you know,

2528
02:12:09,080 --> 02:12:11,680
Speaker 1: featured content, do some films and stuff. All of that

2529
02:12:11,800 --> 02:12:15,000
Speaker 1: is in service of both bringing more people helping people

2530
02:12:15,080 --> 02:12:17,760
Speaker 1: both care about and understand the value of wild places.

2531
02:12:18,440 --> 02:12:20,320
Speaker 1: UM through the lens of hunting. Because I think that's

2532
02:12:20,320 --> 02:12:22,000
Speaker 1: how we're going to get people in the long runs.

2533
02:12:22,080 --> 02:12:27,120
Speaker 1: Really stand up for him. Um, so, what's the website

2534
02:12:28,280 --> 02:12:30,560
Speaker 1: Our golly outdoors dot com A r G A l

2535
02:12:30,640 --> 02:12:36,160
Speaker 1: I Outdoors a r G A l I Outdoings. Yeah, alright, man, Brad,

2536
02:12:36,200 --> 02:12:37,520
Speaker 1: thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me, Man, I

2537
02:12:37,520 --> 02:12:39,160
Speaker 1: appreciate I appreciate what you guys do. By the way,

2538
02:12:39,200 --> 02:12:41,920
Speaker 1: this is really cool, Glad. You're talking about conservation public

2539
02:12:41,960 --> 02:12:45,760
Speaker 1: plans and we'll keep hammering at it. Yeah. Thanks man,

2540
02:12:45,840 --> 02:12:50,080
Speaker 1: though I get scratched up by a grizzling turks. Thank you.

2541
02:16:00,360 --> 02:16:32,400
Speaker 1: Lsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss