1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome back to 5 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: the show. My name is nol Our compatriot Matt is 6 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: on adventures and will return. They called me Ben. We 7 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: are joined as always with our superproducer Alexis code named 8 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you, You are here, 9 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. 10 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: It's the top of the week, so we are exploring 11 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: strange news and we've got some We've got some strange 12 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: stuff going on here. We've got UH. We had a 13 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: lot of response to our earlier reports about cargo, cults 14 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: and Prince Philip. So our adventures today involve UH Royalty, 15 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: they involve UFOs, they involve democracy for the lack thereof, 16 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: We're We're going in many directions with today's show, nol 17 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: If people do Matt proud. But my first question for 18 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: you is, UH, I saw a headline we're researching ahead 19 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: of this UH that that you hit the team to 20 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 1: about Prince Philip. And this is something I did not 21 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: know about the late UK royal Yeah. In addition to 22 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: you know, dabbling and casual racism, it turns out that 23 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: he's super into UFOs. Who knew. Yeah. He also looks 24 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: like that character from that one Buffy the Vampire Slayer 25 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: episode that everyone likes where nobody can talk, and they're 26 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: these like creepy like sinister dudes and suits that say, 27 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: you know, sure whatever I think that was. That's called 28 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: hush actually, Um, but yeah, creepy looking guy, very very 29 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: problematic guy. Um. I also found that the name of 30 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: his biography is the like driest name in the history 31 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 1: of biographies. It's called Prince Philip The Turbulent Early Life 32 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: of the Man who married Queen Elizabeth the Second. Oh 33 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: yeah that this is like a real page turner. Um. 34 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: But uh. The gentleman Philip d who wrote this biography 35 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: or worked on this biography with Prince Philip UM apparently 36 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: found the conversations going in somewhat unusual directions. Um he Uh. 37 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: It came after he had um worked previously on a 38 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: book about some prominent UFO experts or ufologists if you will. Um. 39 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: And this was actually after World War Two, So this 40 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 1: is like super old school, you know, UFO talk and 41 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: Prince Philip, it turns out, has a massive collection of 42 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: book on UFOs subscribes to a British quarterly magazine called 43 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: Flying Saucer Review that seems so antiquated. The idea of 44 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 1: Flying Saucer Review, it seems in the name itself would 45 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: make you know, people don't take it super seriously saucers anymore. 46 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: Adding review to things makes them feel like academic. That's 47 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: a good point. Then that author, by the way that 48 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: we're talking, there are two Philips in this story. I 49 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: think there's Prince Philip and then the author Philip D Right. 50 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: And yeah, and in the process of researching, you know, 51 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: this book, he found out all this stuff. Um. And obviously, 52 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: as we know, by the way this is, there's a 53 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: great article that runs down a lot of this there's 54 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: a few actually, um. It seems like it just came 55 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: out after uh, the the Duke of Edinburgh's passing. Um. 56 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: But yeah, the Vice has as an article that kind 57 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: of goes through a lot of this stuff. Um, that 58 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: I definitely used as a primary research source for this 59 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: this conversation. Um. But it's super interesting, man, because like, 60 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: especially considering the way he behaved towards those whole cargo 61 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: cult situations, you know, like kind of leaning into it 62 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: a little bit, and you know, posing for selfies and 63 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: all of that. Right then, Yeah, so we Uh, I 64 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: want to thank everybody who wrote in about that earlier story. 65 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: Not everybody had the same perspective, but I think we 66 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: can all agree, regardless of your opinions about Prince Philip 67 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 1: or the monarchy in general. Uh, the people who are 68 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: part of the royal family lead very different and oftentimes, 69 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: as odd as it may sound, very demanding lives. Like 70 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: they're not in coal mines, you know, they're not stealing 71 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: stripping copper from abandoned warehouses, but they are held to 72 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: some rigid social standards. They're required to, uh do all 73 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: sorts of diplomatic functions and so on. With a story 74 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 1: like this, what I think is really interesting is that 75 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: it's not one of those things. It's something that the 76 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 1: guy was clearly personally into, and I get the feeling 77 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 1: checking out this Vice article and a couple of other things, 78 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: I get the feeling that he was the kind of 79 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: person who if you were at one of those diplomatic functions, 80 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: or if you just saw him around the house and 81 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 1: you wanted to strike up a conversation. I bet the 82 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: best icebreaker was, uh, you know, what do you think 83 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: about UFOs? Dude? You couldn't call him dude because he's 84 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: the Duke of Edinburgh, but sire, my lord, my liege, 85 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: what do you call a guy like that? Your your 86 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: duke ship totally yeah, that would be yeah, the very least. 87 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: I think he would appreciate the goal, the audacity of it, 88 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: the outright audacity. Um, and you you're right then, like 89 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: these you know, we we've talked about the royal family 90 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: and people have opinions. It's obviously a great source of 91 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: like kind of reality show ask entertainment for many people, 92 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: and they get a lot of flak because there's sort 93 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: of these figureheads that don't you know, have a lot 94 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: of direct uh influence over policy, but they certainly have 95 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: indirect influence over policy, as is evidenced by the story 96 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: that apparently Prince Philip uh was always talking about UFOs 97 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:26,359 Speaker 1: to his equerry. Equerry which is an officer within the 98 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: royal household. I guess sort of like a valet, you know, 99 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: but like more like official and this the gentleman has 100 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: the most British name of all times, Sir Peter Horseley. Uh. 101 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: And he went on to become the Deputy Commander in 102 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: Chief of the Royal Air Force Strike Command, which sounds 103 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: really epic. Um. But apparently after Queen Elizabeth was was coronated. 104 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: Is that is that? Okay? Can you see corinated? Yeah? 105 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: I've ever heard that word used in that form. After 106 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: her coronation um. In nineteen fifty three, he privately asked 107 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 1: hoarsely or dare I say kind of instructed Horsely to 108 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: look into quote credible accounts of alien encounters or UFO 109 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: sightings um. And he, prince Ville himself is quoted as saying, uh, 110 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: there are many reasons that extraterrestrials exist because there is 111 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: so much evidence from reliable witnesses. And he said this 112 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: like a long time ago, way before any of this 113 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: disclosure stuff. What do you think do you think there's 114 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: like information sharing between the US and British government, or 115 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: that there's British intelligence about the alien encounters just like 116 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: we have. You know, some of the stuff that's starting 117 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: to kind of trickle out. I know you generally work 118 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: with horses owned, boy, but to go and digging and 119 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: tell me about these extra terrest deals. Yeah, you know, 120 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: it's it's interesting because at that level, what you'll see 121 00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: is that information sharing can become pretty informal. So there 122 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: are formal classified information sharing agreements, especially in the Anglo sphere, 123 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: the country between countries and the Anglo sphere. But also 124 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: if you're Prince Philip and you're on good terms with 125 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:18,239 Speaker 1: the US president or the president of some other country, 126 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: you will be at a dinner party somewhere and you 127 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: can just say, what's your take on UFOs? What do 128 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: you guys got to say anything interesting? And doesn't have 129 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: to be the president. It could be the Director of 130 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: National Intelligence and then they could conceivably, off the record, 131 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: share some stuff, have a conversation. Technically that would probably 132 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: be illegal, but I'm sure it's happened before, and I'm 133 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 1: not surprised because we have to remember Prince Philip grew 134 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: up and and lived in a time when, especially like 135 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: leading up to World War two. Post World War two, 136 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: people were intensely interested in the idea of unidentified flying objects, 137 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: so I think it makes sense. Also, it's interesting because 138 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: I wonder, and this may be a question for our 139 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 1: British listeners. I wonder how much he would have known 140 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: about classified classified aircraft research in the UK. Would it 141 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: be need to know? Basis, does he count as someone 142 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: who needs to know? Can he just pull rank and 143 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: learn everything? Or how compartmentalized is their information? Also points 144 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: for nominative determinism. The Equerry is back in the day, 145 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: the Equerry was in charge of the horses, I believe. 146 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: And this guy's name is Horseley. Oh yeah, exactly, of 147 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 1: course that makes sense Equine. Yeah, that's I didn't even 148 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: think about that then, in the Equerry. But why is 149 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 1: he the why is he the UFO guy? Or does 150 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: Prince Philip? My question is, does Prince Philip believe that 151 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: horses and UFOs are related? Because if so, that's very 152 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: interesting and I want to hear his take on it. Oh, 153 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: I'm sure he got many takes that will never hear. 154 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: But I'm fascinated by this biography. I'm sure there's some 155 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: interesting quotes in there. Um. It certainly seems like it 156 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: went in an unconventional direction. But this guy hoarsely is 157 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: quoted quite a few times, and you know, publicly talking 158 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: about this um where he he has a really great, 159 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: uh quippy kind of little British wit about him, there's 160 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 1: no question. Um. He is quoted in saying that Prince 161 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: Philip had him invite individuals to Buckingham Palace to talk 162 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: about their encounters with extraterrestrial life or UFOs um, and 163 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: he said that he and uh Philip thought this was 164 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: a quote method as effective as any truth serum, because 165 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: no one would dare uh tell a lie in front 166 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: of the royal family. I think the phrase the excellent 167 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: vice article, uh Jelissa Castordale uses is chat in front 168 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: of a member of the royal family, which that's just right. 169 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: And I actually I was gonna mention that too, because 170 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: I thought that was me Horsely himself talking, which sounded 171 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: like so uh super British and like and witty. But 172 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: now I realized that this is totally just creative licensed 173 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: by the by the writer here, but excellent phrase. And 174 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: I'm definitely gonna add that to my vocabulary and will 175 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: pause for a word from our sponsor. Then we'll return 176 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: with more strange news and we're back. It's funny too, 177 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: because I think I believe this direction we're going with Horseley. 178 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: But I think it's so fascinating how often the public 179 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 1: forgets that people, even people in high positions of worldly power, 180 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: are still just human and have hobbies and eccentricities and quirks. 181 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: Like Horsely was far from a skeptic to my understand Andy. 182 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: He believed in uf He believed in aliens who believed 183 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: in UFOs. He also believed in telepathy, and he actually 184 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: believes he met an alien named Mr Janice. Like, oh 185 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: that's right, yeah, yea, yeah, yeah exactly. I was just 186 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: talking about that with with our friend Victor last night, 187 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: about whether it's pronounced Janice or Janis. I think the 188 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: day The argument was that he thinks it's Janice, and 189 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:30,839 Speaker 1: I definitely have heard it pronounced both with but I 190 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: always say a Janis too because I like the soft 191 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: day as well. Ben, But yeah, Mr Janie or Janis 192 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: if you want it that way. Um was like this 193 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: apparently this dude who is supposedly had had like an 194 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: encounter with an alien there, you know, because he he 195 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: was like vetting people. He was basically like grooming and 196 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: vetting these like UFO encounter people to come hang out 197 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,199 Speaker 1: of bucking impalace. It was like a thing, I guess 198 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: whether I don't know, you could argue with for his 199 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: own amusement. Prince phil up or if it was genuinely 200 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: he was like, you know, the truth is out there 201 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: kind of vibe. But he obviously took it pretty seriously 202 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: and had this guy go out and find these people 203 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: with these stories to share. And Horsely said, um, basically 204 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: said that the guy had like borderline telepathic abilities and like, 205 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: you know, had this uncanny ability to read his thoughts. 206 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: Um and he uh is a quote from Horsely. He wrote, 207 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: I asked him why he wanted to meet Prince Philip, 208 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: and he replied, Prince Philip is a man of great vision, 209 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: a person of world renown and a leader in the 210 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 1: realm of wildlife and the environment. He is a man 211 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: who believes strongly in the proper relationship between man and nature, 212 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 1: which will prove of great importance in future galactic harmony. 213 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: Who and then you know, Horsely goes on to say 214 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: that he, like you, had these kind of dead eyes, 215 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: you know, and he believed him self to be some 216 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 1: sort of extraterrestrial being or extra dimensional whatever. Right. Um, yeah, 217 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: he told the Daily Mail. He didn't say he was 218 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 1: a visitor from another planet, but I had that impression. 219 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: I believe he was here to observe us. I never 220 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: saw him again, and there's not other other than his 221 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: account Horseley's account, I don't believe there there are any 222 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: other real traces of Mr J. So we don't know 223 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: the veracity of horsely statement. I don't think he has 224 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: a reason to lie. But also I when I see 225 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: quotes like the longer one that you read from Mr J, 226 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: I don't believe those are that's a little too clean. 227 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: I think at the very least horse Lease maybe paraphrasing 228 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: from memory. But the evidence here is the implication that 229 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: the vibe that Horseley got was he was and alien. 230 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: And you know, he said he's here to observe us. 231 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: I never saw him again. I think that's a fascinating story. 232 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: And I'm not saying telepathy is impossible, but I am 233 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: saying cold reading is very well proven. It is possible 234 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: to like a lot of people. No matter how you 235 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: feel about psychic powers, there are people who purposely pretend 236 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: to have psychic powers and they're really just doing a 237 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: cold read on you. Right, I feel like you may 238 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: have been in love at some point with someone was gone. 239 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: It's ah, it did their name, it's a it's a, Woa, 240 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: it's a man. It's a man. His name is but Gary, Gary, 241 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: his name is Gary. And then people are like, whoa, 242 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: that's amazing and this guy. You know, I'm just saying, 243 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: we don't know how this idea of reading thoughts goes 244 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: about or because I I don't know if there were 245 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: more specific examples. I think daily Mail that's from right. 246 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: He talks a little bit more about that. But I 247 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: didn't see I didn't see something like we're horsely said. 248 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: I tested him. I thought of a number. He told 249 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: me the number. Kind of thing that's also such a 250 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: Daily Mail thing to print, isn't it? You know what 251 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: I mean? Like utter? You know, I'm sure that the 252 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: headline was like Prince Philip meets alien, you know, or whatever, 253 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: or or Prince Philip's best horseman meets alien, uh in 254 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: London flat. Um. But apparently this obsession, I don't know. 255 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: I don't think we have enough information to call it 256 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: an obsession quite yet. But certainly was an enthusiasm for 257 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: all things um extraterrestrial came. Uh, he kind of came 258 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: honestly by um. Was was encouraged by his uncle. All 259 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: the best British names in this story Lord Lewis Dicky 260 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: mount Batten, um, who, according to the Vice article, is 261 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: in that show The Crown, which I have not seen. Um, 262 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: but I keep hearing, you know, it's it's such a 263 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 1: part of the conversation right now. I feel like i'm 264 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: I'm I'm missing out a little bit. But he is 265 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: the one who got him into Flying Saucer Review in 266 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: the first place, because he himself was a subscriber. Uh. 267 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: And he wrote a letter. UM. I almost want to 268 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: say it was like to Flying Saucer Review. It's a 269 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 1: little unclear, but anyway, and in some correspondence, I would 270 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 1: love the idea of like, you know, British royals writing 271 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: in to like a Flying Saucer Review magazine, like in 272 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: those you know at the end they always have like 273 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: letters from from readers and stuff like at the end 274 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: of comic books. Um. But he said that he believed 275 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: that anyone who was piloting these these alien craft, again 276 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: very specific, like he's referring to something that we were 277 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: not privy to, had to have come from another planet. Um. 278 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: And his his a quote from the letters, his motions Venusians, 279 00:17:55,400 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: Jupiterians or what have you. Uh, that that's who was 280 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 1: piloting these alien craft. Uh, he says, why should life 281 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: in another planet with entirely different conditions in any way 282 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 1: resemble life on our planet. That's a really good point, uh, 283 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 1: Lord Lewis Dickey Mount Batton. It's something that always comes 284 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: up in conversations about aliens, where it's like, how silly 285 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: are we to think that like some magical gold LP 286 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: that we sent out into space is going to be 287 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: of any use to another alien civilization. They're not going 288 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: to have the technology that we have. They're not one 289 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: to one. They've if they've got their own thing, they're 290 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 1: probably in their own little technological bubble, either like super 291 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 1: advanced or maybe you know, just completely different terms and uh, 292 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 1: you know equipment like physiologically right. Well, that's that's why 293 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: the primary goal in alien contact or attempts to communicate 294 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: is math based, primarily physics. Fundamental rules of the game 295 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 1: of the universe as we know it that don't change. 296 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 1: That's that's some of the stuff that subscribed on on 297 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: those disks that you mentioned. It's funny because the human 298 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: species is so self obsessed that there there is a 299 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: lot of stuff being sent out there that's just probably 300 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: not gonna make sense at all to a non human 301 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:23,199 Speaker 1: intelligence without a ton of context. But you know, the 302 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: more I think about it, looking into this a little 303 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: bit before we recorded it went what's the line between 304 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: like a hobby or enthusiasm and obsession? This this also 305 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: seems to be something that has a little bit of 306 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: nostalgia to the Prince because he and his uncle corresponded 307 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 1: and chopped it up so often about UFOs. So there's 308 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: there's a social bond there, and there's also, unfortunately, there's 309 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: there's a little bit of evidence that members of UM, 310 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: the British scientific elite, saw these guys as kind of 311 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 1: batty when uh, when mont Batton wrote to the Ministry 312 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: of Defense's chief scientific advisor, a guy named Lord Sally Zuckerman, 313 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: which is fun to say, Zuckerman said, here's what I 314 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: think of UFOs. They're in the same category as a 315 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: ghost or the Locknest monster, because there's no evidence that 316 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 1: any of them actually exists. And maybe this was somewhat 317 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: um a little bit of cold water for Montbatton because 318 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: he later, according to according to the records, seemed to 319 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: gradually drift away from interest in UFOs to other interests. 320 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 1: First off, you know, I love self directed research. I 321 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: love when people have passions and interests, and you know, 322 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: I think it's fair to assume that these guys would 323 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,360 Speaker 1: have had the juice the pool to learn more than 324 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: the average UFO enthusiasts. But was there ever any like 325 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 1: revelation that they disclosed in their lifetimes? Yeah, I mean 326 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: there's certainly were. Uh, they had some pretty specific theories. 327 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: I still specifically Mountain Botton. Um. He I sort of 328 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 1: started off with him just saying, like, you know, what 329 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: is generally considered probably a pretty progressive you on on 330 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: what alien or extra tracial life by look like like 331 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: he was saying then that there would be very little 332 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: frame of reference or recognition between you know, humanoid forms 333 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: and languages and constructs and you know what would exist 334 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: so so very far away and disconnected from us. But 335 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: he um, I believe this is a conversation he was 336 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: having with um with Prince Philip but talked about like 337 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: he really gets into some some serious detail where he 338 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: says that these creatures might be gaseous or circular or 339 00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: very large. They certainly can't breathe I mean right out, Uh, 340 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: and they may not have to eat, And I doubt. 341 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 1: If they have babies, bits of their great discs may 342 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: break away and grow into a new creature. If the 343 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: human race wishes to survive, they may have to band together, 344 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: I guess against these gelatinous UH cubes from outer space. Um. 345 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be dismissive. It's just really interesting. 346 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: And I'm also kind of shocked that this uh, this 347 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 1: chief Science Minister or whatever, Lord Sally Zuckerman had the 348 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 1: stones to go up against the royal family like that 349 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: and openly, I guess discredit him, or you know, at 350 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: the very least kind of negg his whole thing. Right, Well, 351 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: it's just giving you I would say, he's just giving 352 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: his opinion. He's paid to be a scientific advisor, so 353 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: I suppose. But it just feels like that's tricky territory. 354 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: You know, if you're really out openly criticizing a member 355 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: of the royal family like that, it just it just 356 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: seems a little ballsy, It's all. I see what you're saying. 357 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 1: But you know, he's also of the upper class. He 358 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: is a lord, so he's got he's probably got a 359 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: little more leeway in that regard. But it's you know, 360 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 1: there is a good point about the some of the 361 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: description there when they say life form might be possibly circular, 362 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 1: because if you if you imagine let's say, a space 363 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: faring species, or you imagine something that somehow evolved in 364 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: a vacuum of space right without the same kind of 365 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:39,199 Speaker 1: gravitational constraints terrestrial species will have, then that radial symmetry 366 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: makes sense. There's nothing incentivizing you to like pushing against 367 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: drew growing in a specific direction. So I could see 368 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 1: that I'm down for space jellyfish. I I would not 369 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 1: be surprised if a lot of if there are somewhere 370 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: out there in the universe. Uh, there's more than one 371 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: kind of life form that does look similar to the 372 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: forms we recognize in the deep oceans. I just don't 373 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: think reality is uh creative enough on the based ons 374 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 1: of physics to come up with brand new stuff if 375 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: it doesn't have to. That's a good point, Ben, that's 376 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 1: a good point. You know. Philip, until the day he died, 377 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: presumably UM never lost his fervor for UM alien exploration. 378 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: UM and he apparently uh as recently as last summer 379 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: read a book about the Randall Sham Forest incident. Have 380 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: we done an episode on this. Ben, I don't know 381 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: that Randall sham Forrest incidents, but apparently it's one of 382 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: England's most well known UFO sighting. Uh yeah, I don't 383 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: remember if we have, but it's cut up. It's one 384 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,679 Speaker 1: of those things I would call a phantom topic. It 385 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: happened in December of nineteen eighty. Uh. If we haven't, 386 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: if I haven't done a video on it, then yeah, 387 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,479 Speaker 1: we should definitely do an episode on it. Yeah, agreed. 388 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: But all this to say that, you know, he definitely 389 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: up until the end was was super into this stuff 390 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,400 Speaker 1: and and didn't let any uh you know, back talking 391 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: science people dissuade him. Um. The writer of this vice 392 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: piece who you mentioned, just Julissa Castra Dale a lot 393 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: of cool names in this made a really good point that, like, 394 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 1: aside from this one, you know science schmuck who you 395 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: know kind of poured the cold water on Uh lord, 396 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: what does it? Bat Batten? Him bought Mount Batten. Excuse me? Um. 397 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: She points out that you know, people of the upper crust, 398 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,199 Speaker 1: you know who maybe have country estates and uh you know, 399 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: are members of of the royal family or adjacent at 400 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: the very least, you know that that old old, old 401 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 1: moneyed you know, British high society. When they talk about 402 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: stuff like this, they're like praised for being open minded 403 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: and freethinking, you know. But when more like blue collar 404 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: folks talk about they're you know, asked politely to leave 405 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: the wenbies. This same says the difference between being uh 406 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: noted eccentric and a raging loon is it really comes 407 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 1: down to social status and income. That's the point of 408 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: making earlier when you hear when you hear about very 409 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: powerful people being very human, right for all the things 410 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: that being very human means, uh, it's it shouldn't be surprising. 411 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: Like I guarantee you everybody is weird on some level. 412 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: And and the people who look like they are in 413 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: charge of the world or hold the reigns of a country. 414 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 1: I hope everyone listening finds it reassuring to know this 415 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: and hear this very well. They are just as weird 416 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: as you, if not weirder, because there are more opportunities 417 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: to get to get real eccentric, more opportunities for weirdness, 418 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: and a lot of yes people surrounding you and kind 419 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: of encouraging your every you know, whim um that that's 420 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: a recipe for for eccentricity, to be sure, but I 421 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: thought this was a lot of fun, uh and an 422 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: interesting way to remember uh, someone who history baby hasn't 423 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: quite settled in on. Uh. You know how how we 424 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: feel about this guy. Um, you know this whole like 425 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: racist comment that he kind of got, like a quote 426 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: unquote racist comment about you know talking well, yes, exactly. 427 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,719 Speaker 1: I think he didn't specifically use that word. He just asked, 428 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: there's like some some envoy or and some diplomatic trip. 429 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 1: He he was that there was a group of Indigenous 430 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 1: people that performed some sort of the you know, dance 431 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: of situation, and he just like very casually says, you 432 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,919 Speaker 1: still throw spears at each other. Um, which is obviously, 433 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: you know, super weird and problematic. But I actually found 434 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: an article I don't know how it came up, but 435 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: it said, Uh it was an article from ABC where 436 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: one of the indo visuals who he said this too, 437 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 1: felt that the comment was not racist. But I don't 438 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: necessarily think it's always up to the person um. And 439 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: it's so yeah, that's why again I want to go 440 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,679 Speaker 1: circle back to the cargo cults thing Ben, because he 441 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: obviously had this weird there's a weird reverence towards this 442 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: man from some you know, indigenous people, right yep, uh yeah, 443 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: I mean that's not that's not uncommon. Uh. There there 444 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 1: was reverence from a specific indigenous community, but their reverence. 445 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: There's reverence for all sorts of celebrities or noted political figures. 446 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: There's another example. Always think of uh, I did I 447 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: did some something on I can't remember which show this 448 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: was for. You know who's big in Paraguay, Rutherford B. 449 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: Hayes U S President. People love him there, their statues, 450 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: they celebrate him on a yearly basis. They don't think 451 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: he's a god. He's not a mythical figure, but he 452 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: is a national hero. So I can I can see, uh, 453 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: just celebrity and renowned. It's a it's a very it's 454 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: a very weird thing. I don't know what Rutherford B. 455 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: Hayes thought of UFOs. I I know nothing about him 456 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: other than the fact that he's got a pretty memorable name. 457 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: And then that's about all I remember. Um in this 458 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: same ABC article, and then I know we gotta move on. Um. 459 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: And by the way, the comment that that Prince Philip 460 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: made was it was an Australian visit to Queensland, Australia. 461 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: Um and he uh, the one of the gentlemen. He 462 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: said that too. Totally defended him and said, oh, he's 463 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: a he's a lovely man. He didn't mean anything by 464 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: it and um and then goes on to really gush 465 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: about the guy. Uh and in Australia he is he 466 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: it wasn't is still beloved, And largely it had to 467 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: do with the fact that he was so open and 468 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: uh kind of free speaking and presumably free thinking. Uh 469 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: and and would kind of just say whatever his mind, 470 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: as opposed to the Queen who has seen as being 471 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: very um you know, closed off and and formal. Uh. 472 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: He was favored that this is a quote from this 473 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: uh the way he was perceived by Australians historian um 474 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: who literally heard about specific specializations. Uh. She is a 475 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: historian on royal visits to Australia. Um and she said 476 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: that he was famous quote for for being more open 477 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: than the very guarded queen. So when he was young 478 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: and fairly handsome, he was seen as dynamic with he 479 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: and a breath of fresh air. All this kind of 480 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: tracks but uh, like I said, very very interesting dude. 481 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: A lot of kind of mixed messages around this guy 482 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: over time, but UH, I love the fact that he 483 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: was a big UFO head. And so there we leave 484 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: the story of the Duke of Edinburgh. UH, Fellow UFO enthusiasts, 485 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: We're gonna pause for a word from our sponsor, who 486 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: may or may not be illuminate Asian Global Unlimited, and 487 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: will be right back and half a world away. But 488 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:14,959 Speaker 1: we're staying on Earth for this next one, and we've returned. 489 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: This is an ongoing story that you may have heard 490 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: mentioned in Western news to varying degrees of specificity. It's 491 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 1: also something you may have heard us mentioned in the 492 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: course of earlier episodes. Our next piece of strange news 493 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: is quite unfortunate, and it takes us to mean Mar 494 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: mean Mar is a country that doesn't hit the US 495 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: news too often. If you're the average resident of the US, 496 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: you're probably most familiar with me and Mar through the 497 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: story of the democracy activists on Young Succhi. Uh. Myanmar 498 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: is if you look at a map, it's directly to 499 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: the left of Thailand, the erectly to the right of Bangladesh. 500 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: It's it's between those two countries. It shares a border 501 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: with several other countries, including China. This has been um 502 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: of famously troubled, infamously troubled country for a long time. 503 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,479 Speaker 1: It's been ruled by a military junta for most of 504 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: our lifetimes for those of us making the show, and 505 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: it's something we've talked about before, militaries and their responsibilities 506 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: for function and stability of government, which are usually outlined 507 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: in the country's constitution. Here's what happened recently. Amid the pandemic. 508 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 1: There was a time of what is often described as 509 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 1: quasi democracy. Russell Goldman, writing for The New York Times, 510 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: has a great explainer piece on this February first, there 511 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 1: was a coup de tap in the country, and it 512 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: brought back full military rule. I I am the first 513 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: to admit I've dunked a little bit on Myanmar's military, 514 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: primarily because of their decision a number of years ago 515 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: to move the country's capital based on the advice of 516 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: an astrologer. That is, yeah, that's a true story. And again, 517 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: I think the last time I mentioned I was trying 518 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: to be really fair and I was saying, hey, before 519 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: you before anybody looks down their collective noses at that decision. 520 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: Let's remember that U S presidents like Ronald Reagan have 521 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: also taken advice from astrologers, so it's not it's not 522 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: restricted to just one country. The military had been in 523 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: power in Myanmar since nineteen sixty two and the period 524 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: of quasi democracy begins in two thousand eleven, so there 525 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: was a long multigenerational history of this being a country 526 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: ruled by a military. When democracy came into power in 527 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, they were implementing reforms, parliamentary elections. It 528 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: became very complicated very quickly. The trouble, the recent trouble, 529 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: began on November eight. The National League for Democracy is 530 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:25,799 Speaker 1: the leading civilian party and there were elections held on 531 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: November eight. National League for Democracy n LD won eight 532 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: three per cent of the vote of the seats in parliament. 533 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: And what did the military do. They said it was 534 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: a sham. They said it was a fraud, They said 535 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 1: this was a kangaroo court election wise, Uh, they said 536 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: that the National League for Democracy did not in fact, 537 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,320 Speaker 1: when three of the seats um And of course A 538 00:34:55,560 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 1: San Succi is the head of that democratic party. She's 539 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 1: been as a result, the leader since she's like a 540 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: real people's candidate, right, I mean, she's absolutely beloved, and 541 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: it's almost like the military resents that kind of you know, 542 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 1: adoration of this individual, who, if I'm not mistaken, I mean, 543 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: is a pretty interesting figure and like not not super problematic. 544 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: I mean, all politicians have two sides or whatever, but 545 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: it's my understanding that she very much was kind of 546 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 1: humanitarian individual and someone who you know, the adoration of 547 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 1: the people kind of makes sense, right, Yeah, But unfortunately 548 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 1: it's it's a little it gets a little complicated when 549 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,919 Speaker 1: you say she's the people's candidate. That qualifies as long 550 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: as those people are not Rohinga, which is the Muslim 551 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: ethnic minority group uh in Myanmar. The country launched a 552 00:35:54,960 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 1: deadly campaign against this ethnic group UH, and she supported it. 553 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: Upon her release from house arrest, Oh, she was also 554 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: locked up for years and years and years. UH. She 555 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: defended this, this campaign of brutality against the Rohinga in 556 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: like the International Court of Justice. So it wasn't just 557 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: a throwaway comment in an interview, and a lot of 558 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: her supporters said, this is really a pragmatic move to 559 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 1: cooperate with the military because it will accelerate the evolution 560 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: toward full democracy. But then when the coup occurred on 561 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: February one, it appeared that whatever cooperation or olive branch 562 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: she had extended was not enough in their opinion. So 563 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: here's what happened when when they said the November eight 564 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:54,400 Speaker 1: elections were bogus, the military went to the country's Supreme 565 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: Court and they said, not only are these results fraudulent, 566 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: but we are going to take action because it's our 567 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 1: job as the military. We're gonna surround the houses governmental 568 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: bodies with soldiers. Sounds troublingly familiar to some of the 569 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 1: actions on January six, right, although those were you know, protesters, rioters, 570 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 1: not paid soldiers totally, And I was, I was remembering 571 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,759 Speaker 1: half of the story. She did have a early kind 572 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: of period as this golden you know, human rights kind 573 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 1: of beacon, protesting against the regime that m was very 574 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,800 Speaker 1: poor with their human rights record essentially, but then essentially 575 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,359 Speaker 1: went on to kind of become the thing that she hated, right, 576 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:47,839 Speaker 1: Like that's sort of the complexity of this individual. Yeah. Yeah, Unfortunately, Um, 577 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,800 Speaker 1: the you know, the the closer you looked at historical figures, 578 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,759 Speaker 1: the more well you know, the more reputational warts you 579 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: are likely to find. And that's kind of the case 580 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: with Prince Philip as well. You know, people at the 581 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 1: top again are are just as human as everyone else. 582 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: The military detained on San Succi, also President you and Mint, 583 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: also cabinet ministers, chief ministers of several regions, opposing politicians, writers, activists. 584 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 1: They were locking people up left and right. It was 585 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 1: the hottest new thing. Uh. The coup was pretty much 586 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 1: announced to the public on the military owned TV station 587 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 1: Milwauite TV news anchor there sited the constitution, which had 588 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,760 Speaker 1: come into effect in two thousand and eight and said, 589 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: you know, the military can legally declare a national emergency, 590 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 1: and this state of emergency that they have declared is 591 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: going to stay in place for one year. After that point, 592 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: the military took control of the communications infrastructure of Myanmar. 593 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: They suspended most TV broadcasts, They canceled flights international and domestic. 594 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: I mean, this sounds this sounds sort of par for 595 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: the course if you're thinking about it as another country 596 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: very far away. But it's important to think about how 597 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: you would feel if this occurred in your country, whether 598 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 1: that's the UK, Australia, India is getting close with some 599 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,720 Speaker 1: of their authoritarian measures or you know, whether it happened 600 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,800 Speaker 1: in the US, what would you do? Telephone, internet access 601 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 1: all suspended, the stock market, the banks, they were closed. 602 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: There were long lines outside of a t m s 603 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:41,399 Speaker 1: because people were rushing to get hard currency. People ran 604 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: to the markets to stock up on food and supplies. 605 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,800 Speaker 1: People were panicking, and their panic proved to be correct. 606 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:54,279 Speaker 1: The public responded with a number of peaceful protests, but 607 00:39:54,520 --> 00:40:00,760 Speaker 1: on February the first official deaths occurred to unarmed protesters 608 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 1: were killed by security forces. One of those was a 609 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,879 Speaker 1: sixteen year old boy. There was a general strike then 610 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:14,799 Speaker 1: on February, millions of people left their jobs, took to 611 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 1: the street, and then they tried to fight back financially. 612 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 1: This civil disobedience movement crippled the banking system, so it 613 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,279 Speaker 1: was tougher for the military to get stuff done. But 614 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 1: then the military became more violent and and that trend increases. 615 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:38,600 Speaker 1: The military at this point has killed more than six people, 616 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 1: and according to international monitoring agencies, they've assaulted, detained, or 617 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: tortured thousands of others. And now one of the one 618 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: of the other evolutions people are seeing as these peaceful 619 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:58,759 Speaker 1: protesters are mobilizing into what some journalists are describing a 620 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,399 Speaker 1: guerrilla force. So remember when we talked about the farm protests, 621 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 1: A lot of the protesters were building barricades to protect themselves. 622 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 1: This is happening in Myanmar, but there they're not traveling 623 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:16,320 Speaker 1: to cities to build these barricades. They're building barricades around 624 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 1: their own neighborhoods, and they're learning how to make smoke 625 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 1: bombs their training and basic forest warfare. This is an untenable, 626 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 1: unsustainable situation, and it could have regional ramifications. It's already 627 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,239 Speaker 1: going to have regional ramifications. I mean you have to 628 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,680 Speaker 1: imagine the larger countries surrounding the m are all very 629 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 1: well aware of this situation and pretty pretty spooped, and 630 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 1: rightly so. I mean the military like they began a 631 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 1: secret trial on February sixt for all song SUCHI uh, 632 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,440 Speaker 1: who to further complicated legacy, by the way, I think 633 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,799 Speaker 1: we should mend. And she did win the Nobel Peace 634 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:06,800 Speaker 1: Prize before the Rhinga stuff. Yeah, yeah, no, it's super interesting, 635 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,439 Speaker 1: um to see someone kind of devolved in this way, 636 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,239 Speaker 1: and and and there's two sides to it all, you know, 637 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:17,120 Speaker 1: I'm sure, But yeah, the I mean is she directly 638 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,800 Speaker 1: responsible for human rights violations after being such a proponent 639 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 1: for human rights or is it more just like by association. 640 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,280 Speaker 1: I'm a little unclear on that aspect of her. Yeah, 641 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:32,240 Speaker 1: So it goes back to seen people wanted her Nobel 642 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,480 Speaker 1: prize to be revoked because she was silent about the 643 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,719 Speaker 1: persecution of the Rohinga people in the country. But then 644 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,200 Speaker 1: she went on to say that she did not believe 645 00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 1: it was ethnic cleansing. She said there was a climate 646 00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:49,719 Speaker 1: of fear uh, and that there was a worldwide perception 647 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 1: about global Muslim power that was affecting the military's position. So, yeah, 648 00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,480 Speaker 1: it gets it gets complicated. The economist famously said her 649 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:04,719 Speaker 1: halo has even slipped among foreign human rights lobbyists, disappointed 650 00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:07,400 Speaker 1: at her failure to make a clear stand on behalf 651 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,839 Speaker 1: of the Rohinga minority. So it makes you wonder like, 652 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:16,040 Speaker 1: is this a crime of neglect? Is this a crime 653 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,759 Speaker 1: of or is this an active crime would be a 654 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:20,640 Speaker 1: better way to say it, like is she making the 655 00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: laws that allow for this persecution? Well, this time, the 656 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,640 Speaker 1: law is definitely not on her side, at least the 657 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 1: way the military is thinking about it. Because imagine this, Okay, 658 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,759 Speaker 1: you're the president of a country, or you're the leader 659 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:36,279 Speaker 1: of a country. We should say a leader of a 660 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:41,040 Speaker 1: political party. Military coup occurs and boom, go directly to jail. 661 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,439 Speaker 1: Do not pasco, do not collect two hundred dollars. This 662 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:49,960 Speaker 1: trial is bonkers, so she doesn't get any legal representation. 663 00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:51,879 Speaker 1: So imagine you went from being one of the most 664 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:56,200 Speaker 1: powerful people in your country to having a secret trial. 665 00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,960 Speaker 1: Your lawyer is not told that the trial has started. 666 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 1: This trial is believed to take up to a year, 667 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,200 Speaker 1: but we have no idea like the reason that she 668 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,680 Speaker 1: is on trial. The crime she's accused of has nothing 669 00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:15,120 Speaker 1: to do with human rights violations. It's actually she is 670 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:21,800 Speaker 1: accused of violating import restrictions because military forces when they 671 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:26,840 Speaker 1: went into her compound they found walkie talkies. She's also 672 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:32,400 Speaker 1: in trouble for having for interacting with a crowd during 673 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,920 Speaker 1: the pandemic, and that's a charge that hadn't been publicly 674 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,720 Speaker 1: disclosed before. So we still don't know. If you wanted 675 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,520 Speaker 1: to be really cynical a Macavellian about it, you could 676 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,200 Speaker 1: say that maybe the military is just looking for an 677 00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:50,200 Speaker 1: excuse to keep her jammed up for that year of 678 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:55,920 Speaker 1: military rule, right, now the army chief, Senior General men 679 00:44:56,120 --> 00:45:00,960 Speaker 1: On Klong, is the it's sort of the active ruler 680 00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,160 Speaker 1: of the country. He was supposed to kind of age 681 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:09,200 Speaker 1: out or retire this summer, but he's in trench now 682 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,440 Speaker 1: there's there's a possibility for him to become a strong 683 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,680 Speaker 1: man because he also has a network based on what 684 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:21,279 Speaker 1: really profitable family businesses, and now if he retires, they 685 00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,520 Speaker 1: might not be able to make as much of a viig. 686 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:29,680 Speaker 1: So he's probably staying on for a while, even though 687 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:34,279 Speaker 1: he is a business tycoon, a senior military official and 688 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:38,720 Speaker 1: now the ruler of the country. And there was always 689 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,759 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, you've seen the stories before 690 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:48,080 Speaker 1: where the military intervenes in in a country's state level affairs. 691 00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:53,080 Speaker 1: It's always a very dicese situation. It's never well, it's 692 00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,160 Speaker 1: usually not supposed to be permanent the way it's phrase. 693 00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:59,960 Speaker 1: But at this point I have to wonder. My question, 694 00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:05,480 Speaker 1: Funeral is do you think there's foreign involvement in this coup? 695 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:10,839 Speaker 1: Do you think, for instance, another regional power broker is 696 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:16,000 Speaker 1: aiding the military or like what prompted this? I don't know, man, 697 00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,920 Speaker 1: that's a good question. I guess the thing to look forward, 698 00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:23,719 Speaker 1: be who who is benefiting from this unrest? Like, is 699 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:29,120 Speaker 1: it regionally destabilizing in a way that benefits any any 700 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:35,000 Speaker 1: other governments or or you know, entities. Yeah, that's that's it. 701 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:36,920 Speaker 1: That's a good that's a good way to look at it. 702 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,879 Speaker 1: We BoNT know who benefits. Uh, follow the money, right. 703 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:46,360 Speaker 1: The money may be drying up as well because the 704 00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:51,680 Speaker 1: EU and some other international players are sanctioning mean Mar's 705 00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:58,239 Speaker 1: leaders in an attempt to depower them, essentially. But it's 706 00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:02,880 Speaker 1: funny because the well, when I say funny, it's it's 707 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:06,239 Speaker 1: it's a terrible situation, just to be clear. But one 708 00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:10,239 Speaker 1: thing I thought was interesting is that the leaders of 709 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:15,479 Speaker 1: Myanmar officially warned the world not to call this a coup. 710 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,480 Speaker 1: That's one of the first things they said internationally. They said, look, 711 00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:24,839 Speaker 1: if you are describing this state of emergency, don't call 712 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,480 Speaker 1: it a coup. We're doing the right thing. We're doing 713 00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:32,040 Speaker 1: legal things. And here's the little add on, And if 714 00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:38,560 Speaker 1: you use incorrect words to describe this state of emergency, 715 00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:43,040 Speaker 1: that could be seen as an act of instigation. It 716 00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:45,719 Speaker 1: could be breaking the law. So be very careful what 717 00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,640 Speaker 1: you say. Luckily, our podcast is not based in Myanmar 718 00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,880 Speaker 1: at this point. Yeah, it's sort of like the geopolitical 719 00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,960 Speaker 1: equivalent of calling a water pipe a bong in a 720 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:59,000 Speaker 1: tobacco store and being asked to leave right, right, right, 721 00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:03,239 Speaker 1: but leaving to j L and probably get tortured. Yeah, yeah, 722 00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:05,239 Speaker 1: I had to say it out loud. Then don't call 723 00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,279 Speaker 1: it a coup. We've been here for years, right right? 724 00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,440 Speaker 1: Uh and and shout out to shout out to some 725 00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:14,160 Speaker 1: of my favorite hip hop groups, the Coup and of 726 00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:19,120 Speaker 1: course Mighty Haiku based here in Atlanta. Uh, neither of 727 00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:25,200 Speaker 1: whom are to my knowledge, involved in overthrowing democratically elected governments. 728 00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:29,839 Speaker 1: Just throwing down Swede bars. Yeah. Absolutely, that's where their 729 00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,080 Speaker 1: passion is. But what about China's passion. I mean, that's 730 00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:37,480 Speaker 1: the that's the specter right cast over this entire affair. 731 00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:44,000 Speaker 1: The military has conspired to overthrow an elected government. China 732 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,600 Speaker 1: has to know about it, right. China has been kind 733 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,200 Speaker 1: of playing both sides for a long time. They've got 734 00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:55,640 Speaker 1: good relationships with the military hierarchy. They've got good relationships 735 00:48:55,800 --> 00:49:00,359 Speaker 1: with the Democratic Party there. They're just you know, they're 736 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:06,360 Speaker 1: playing the long game. And there official statement was pretty interesting. 737 00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,600 Speaker 1: It's well, I'll read it, I'll share it with you, 738 00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,359 Speaker 1: and then I don't want to get everybody's take so loong. 739 00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,520 Speaker 1: When Bin who is the spokesman for the Foreign Ministry 740 00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,239 Speaker 1: of China, said China and Myanmar are friendly neighbors. We 741 00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,640 Speaker 1: hope that all parties will properly handle their differences under 742 00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:27,960 Speaker 1: the constitution and legal framework to maintain political and social stability. 743 00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:32,760 Speaker 1: That is a very polite way to say, not our problem. 744 00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,200 Speaker 1: In my opinion, what do you think they're just not 745 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,880 Speaker 1: They said, this is uh, this is something a problem 746 00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,960 Speaker 1: you will work out in your own house more or less. 747 00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:48,520 Speaker 1: The issue here is that when they've instituted that one 748 00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:53,319 Speaker 1: year period, we don't know how far. We don't know 749 00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,319 Speaker 1: how far we'll go with one year, you know what 750 00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,719 Speaker 1: I mean? Like, will it what what will happen after 751 00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,719 Speaker 1: that year? Will there be another election that maybe has 752 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:06,920 Speaker 1: results the military fields are more accurate, or you know, 753 00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,359 Speaker 1: also favor them a little bit more, or will they 754 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,759 Speaker 1: say the state of emergency continues and for the good 755 00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,040 Speaker 1: of the country, for the greater good, we have to 756 00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:20,520 Speaker 1: continue uh military rule. It's just it's so rare for 757 00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:24,200 Speaker 1: a group that takes power in this way to voluntarily 758 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,759 Speaker 1: give it up. You know what I mean, it's it's 759 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:31,560 Speaker 1: very dangerous water. The other big regional player in the 760 00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:35,320 Speaker 1: mix here. The other two big ones are Japan and India. 761 00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:41,560 Speaker 1: India is the world's largest democracy. Japan also is worried 762 00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:46,640 Speaker 1: that this shift, or this return to authoritarian military rule, 763 00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:52,640 Speaker 1: is going to sway Myanmar away from democratic nations and 764 00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:57,080 Speaker 1: towards what they call the League of China. And this 765 00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:00,520 Speaker 1: has been something Japan was very frightened about were a 766 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:05,680 Speaker 1: long long time because they didn't want Myanmar to become 767 00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:08,400 Speaker 1: a vassal state of China. They thought it would be 768 00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,960 Speaker 1: a danger to the country's prospects for democracy, and Japan 769 00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:15,320 Speaker 1: went out of their way to be friendly here. Um. 770 00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,920 Speaker 1: You know we mentioned two thousand eleven, that's where we 771 00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:22,040 Speaker 1: see democracy come into power. The very next year, Japan 772 00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:26,040 Speaker 1: canceled a ton of Meamar's debt and then they gave 773 00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:29,440 Speaker 1: them another loan to help them clear out their debts 774 00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:31,839 Speaker 1: with the World Bank, the Asian Development Bank. They were 775 00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:36,440 Speaker 1: trying to make like a fresh start for the country. 776 00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:39,960 Speaker 1: And at this point it's an ongoing story, but it's 777 00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,320 Speaker 1: a story I feel like more people should be aware 778 00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:46,239 Speaker 1: of because we're going to hear more about it. Um. 779 00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,920 Speaker 1: I I don't know what the predictions will be. I 780 00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:54,640 Speaker 1: hope that, uh, you know, the politicians who have been 781 00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:59,000 Speaker 1: locked up, even if even if some of them were corrupt, 782 00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:03,120 Speaker 1: I hope that they are safe and incarceration and they 783 00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:06,640 Speaker 1: don't get you know, a Russian style illness or something 784 00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,520 Speaker 1: like that. I hope an accident doesn't occur to them. 785 00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,840 Speaker 1: But this, this is unsustainable, and because the country is 786 00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:17,400 Speaker 1: so poor, it doesn't get as much attention as it should. 787 00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,719 Speaker 1: So at this point we're gonna We're gonna call it 788 00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,439 Speaker 1: a day. We'll be back with more strange news next week. 789 00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:27,640 Speaker 1: Want to hear from you. Who are your favorite prominent 790 00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:33,640 Speaker 1: UFO enthusiasts and do you have family in Myanmar or 791 00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,960 Speaker 1: have you visited the country? What is your take? If 792 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,359 Speaker 1: you are listening to this show and you are in 793 00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,799 Speaker 1: the country right now, please be safe. We would love 794 00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:44,520 Speaker 1: to hear from you. We try to make it easy 795 00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,120 Speaker 1: to find us online. You can find us on the 796 00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,800 Speaker 1: Internet and multiple places. We are Conspiracy Stuff on Twitter 797 00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:55,080 Speaker 1: and Facebook, Conspiracy Stuff Show on Instagram. You can also 798 00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:57,919 Speaker 1: give us a call at our hotline. The people still 799 00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,600 Speaker 1: call him a hotline one three three as td w 800 00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,919 Speaker 1: y t K. You've got three minutes to leave a message. Uh, 801 00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:05,840 Speaker 1: and if you're cool with it, please let us know. 802 00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:08,600 Speaker 1: We might just feature it on one of our weekly 803 00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:10,920 Speaker 1: listener mail episodes and please let us know what to 804 00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:12,880 Speaker 1: call you and all that. And while you're on the internet, 805 00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:14,359 Speaker 1: why don't you do us a solid and leave us 806 00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,279 Speaker 1: a nice sight tunes review or what do they call 807 00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,880 Speaker 1: it these days, Apple podcasts? Uh? It really does help, um, 808 00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,839 Speaker 1: you know, people discover the show, and it also supplants 809 00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:26,040 Speaker 1: some of the trolley reviews that are on there that 810 00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:29,000 Speaker 1: we you know that hurt our feelings very much. I'm 811 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,399 Speaker 1: just kidding. We're tough as nails, but yeah, seriously do 812 00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,120 Speaker 1: that thing. And then if I'm not mistaken, there's also 813 00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:35,560 Speaker 1: another way people can get in touch with us. They 814 00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:37,319 Speaker 1: don't want to do any of that stuff. They can 815 00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:39,799 Speaker 1: send us a good old fashioned email where we are 816 00:53:40,200 --> 00:54:02,040 Speaker 1: conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. 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