1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: In this podcast, we're going to talk frankly but sensitively 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: about issues some people might find disturbing, including rape and suicide. 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: If you or someone you know is suicidal in the 4 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: US Down nine eighty eight, check out this podcast notes 5 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: page for information on LGBT plus mental health resources in 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: your community. 7 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 2: In a previous episode of Shattering the System, we learned 8 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 2: how Jammel Moore, a young black man, was found dead 9 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 2: in the apartment of Ed Buck, a white man who 10 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 2: knew how to navigate the ins and outs of West Hollywood. 11 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 2: At first, Jammel's death was ruled an accidental overdose, and 12 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 2: just five days later the case was closed. Then eighteen 13 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 2: months later, another gay black man was found dead in 14 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 2: the same apartment, Timothy Dean, also died of an overdose. 15 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 2: Timothy was fifty five years old, and his friends say 16 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 2: he had a lot of interests and was still very 17 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 2: much full of life. He loved the game of basketball, 18 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 2: for instance. He was a genuine athlete and basketball was 19 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:14,559 Speaker 2: something he loved and was good at. Something I find 20 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 2: interesting about the world of West Hollywood is when you 21 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 2: have a city full of gay folks, you start noticing 22 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 2: them everywhere because in a place like this. Well, they're 23 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 2: just all kinds of people. I remember a friend of 24 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 2: mine came to visit and we went to a basketball court, 25 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 2: you know, for a casual game of twenty one. Now, 26 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 2: when we got to the court, which is kind of 27 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 2: in the center of the most important part of West Hollywood, 28 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 2: this court is just across the street from the LA 29 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 2: Sheriff station than we have, and it's also a few 30 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 2: yards from almost all of we Hoo's nightlife. I'll give 31 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 2: you a more detailed tour of West Hollywood in a 32 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 2: later episode, But when we got back to my apartment, 33 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 2: he was so winded and tired, and he was even 34 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 2: surprised that a basketball court in West Hollywood would be 35 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 2: every single bit as competitive as one in South Central 36 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 2: or the South Bronx or the South side of Chicago 37 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 2: and Olid and Jonaman a lot of by Angela Blake Kerty. 38 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 2: Basketball was really important to Timothy Day. He was a 39 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 2: part of the National Gay Basketball Association the NNGBA, as 40 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 2: well as the Land of the Basketball League. 41 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 3: The Dude was inducted. 42 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: Into the Gay Basketball Hall of Fame in two thousand 43 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 2: and one, and he won a silver medal at the 44 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 2: Paris Gay Games in twenty eighteen. 45 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 4: Gay basketball has been around since the early nineties and 46 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,399 Speaker 4: a lot of these stories are just lost if they're 47 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 4: not captured. 48 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 2: That's Michael Thomas. He's a documentary filmmaker from Belgium. Sports 49 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,239 Speaker 2: and basketball in particular are a part of his life 50 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 2: and work. 51 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 4: So I live in Los Angeles myself since two thousand 52 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 4: and eight, and also when I moved here, I also 53 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 4: kind of came out as gay, and yeah, I've been 54 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 4: involved in the LGBT community ever since, and I also 55 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 4: play basketball in the Gay Basketball League. 56 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 2: He's come close enough to Lebron James to get splashed 57 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 2: with champagne after one of Lebron's championship wins. 58 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 3: It's over, It's over. Pleave women if a city of. 59 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 5: Champions once again. 60 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 2: Among his documentaries is the film Game Face, about queer 61 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: athletes and their quest for acceptance. It was through basketball 62 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 2: that he learned about the life and death of Timothy Dean. 63 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 4: Tim passed like first Jamel passed in twenty seventeen. Then 64 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 4: people kept going over there, drugs kept happening in that apartment. 65 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 4: Nothing was ever done. In twenty nineteen, Timothy Dean dies. 66 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 4: Still nothing is being done. People keep going in and out. 67 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 2: Michael had long wanted to do a documentary about basketball, 68 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 2: He just never thought it would come about the way 69 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 2: it did. 70 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 3: He was already gathering interviews. 71 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: Among his friends about the world of gay sports and 72 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: basketball when Timothy Dean was found dead in the home 73 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 2: of that Buck. Two different men entered bucks apartment and 74 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 2: left in body bags. Michael could feel how much pain 75 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: their mutual friends were at. 76 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 4: There was a basketball tournament in Los Angeles with teams 77 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 4: from all over the country. 78 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 2: That came after the tournament, remember this is in twenty nineteen, 79 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 2: there was an after party at a bar on Santa 80 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: Monica Boulevard. Ironically, that bar was called Rage. Unlike other 81 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 2: bars along Santa Monica Boulevard, this bar was decidedly non 82 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 2: white and young. Rage, which has been closed and renamed, 83 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 2: is literally keaty corner to the LA Shriff's office. 84 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,799 Speaker 4: Lots of friends of tim were there at that party, 85 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 4: and the after party was at Rage, so not just 86 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 4: people from basketball, but everyone was able to come in there. 87 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 4: We were just surprised to suddenly see that ed Buck 88 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 4: was in front of the entrance and was just coming in. 89 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 3: Michael could not believe it. There at a bar was 90 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 3: ed Buck. 91 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 2: Two men died of overdoses in Buck's apartment in an 92 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 2: eighteen month period, but he hadn't been charged in the 93 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 2: deaths Ja Melmore was dead, Timothy Dean was dead, and 94 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 2: walking into a bar full of Timothy Dean's friends is 95 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 2: ed Buck. 96 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 4: He had no shame to just stroll the streets of 97 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 4: West Hollywood and look for his next victims in his eyes, 98 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 4: like he didn't do anything wrong, But it was just 99 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 4: incredible to see him there on the street. It's just 100 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 4: so furiating, and there's nothing we could do. 101 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 2: To everyone's surprise, ed Buck's coming in to chill at 102 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: the bar. 103 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 3: Did I say the bar's name was Rage. 104 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 4: We had to hold people back as well because we 105 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 4: didn't want them to get into it with ed Buck, 106 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 4: because you know, we don't want. 107 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 6: Our friends to end up in jail. 108 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 4: And at Buck being being out, you know. 109 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 3: Michael realized there was something he could do. He could do. 110 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 2: A documentary film, Jammel and tim was released in twenty 111 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 2: twenty one. It looks into the lives of ed Buck's victims. 112 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 7: Ed Buck is a predator that masqueraded around just to 113 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 7: hunt down the bodies of black men, someone that was 114 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 7: hiding in plain sight. 115 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 4: I know that one of the biggest frustrations from friends 116 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 4: and family is the difference of how the victims were 117 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 4: portrayed and how ed Buck was portrayed. At Buck, his 118 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 4: whole resume was being acknowledged in the press, everything that 119 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 4: he has achieved, But with Jammel and tim all the 120 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 4: worst things that they have done in life that was highlighted. 121 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 4: And then it's very easy too, you know, for people 122 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 4: to say like, oh, well, you know, prostitute this or 123 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 4: like they deserved it, or drugs or you know, then 124 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 4: it's very easy to blame or to like protect at bar. 125 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's like political donor sex worker. Yeah right, well, 126 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 3: you know, not that that's a very. 127 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 4: Correct it's it's yeah, the portrayal was day and night 128 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 4: because that human aspect was left out and a lot 129 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 4: of the portrayal. And I think if we create a 130 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 4: human aspect that creates compassion and a reason why we 131 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 4: should care about these. 132 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 2: Stories, that human aspect that gets left out is what 133 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 2: this podcast is here to do. Highlight what's been left out, 134 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 2: the personal and professional of a man called Timothy Dean 135 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 2: through the eyes of those who knew him and loved him. 136 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 2: Like his friend Richard Martin. 137 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 5: He was not a drug addict, he was not homeless. 138 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 5: He never hurt a single person, and I think that 139 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 5: that's sometimes is forgotten. I'll say this specially with white men. 140 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 5: As soon as something scandal happens, white men have a 141 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 5: tendency going. I don't know him, I don't know him. 142 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 3: I don't know him. Who was Timothy Dean? 143 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 2: Fashionista, baller, benefactor, red carpet afficionado. And why does the 144 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 2: media only want to see him as a victim, a 145 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 2: drug addict or a sex worker. In the rush to 146 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 2: make news, often we don't pause to see the complex 147 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 2: people behind the headlines. 148 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 3: Well, that's why we're here. 149 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 2: I'm your host Sinari Glinton, and this is Shattering the System, 150 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 2: the true crime podcast that's about more than crime. Just 151 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 2: because someone's life ends in tragedy doesn't mean their life 152 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 2: is tragic. Today on the program, the life and Legacy 153 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 2: of Timothy Dean, Shattering the System gets started after this message, 154 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 2: this is Shattering the System, your host, Sinari and Glinton. 155 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 6: Tim Dean was just larger than life. He had this 156 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 6: personality that you knew when he entered a room. You 157 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,839 Speaker 6: knew that you knew how he loved you by the 158 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 6: way that he treated you. 159 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 2: That clip we just heard is from the documentary Beyond 160 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 2: Ed Buck and in this episode we want to talk 161 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 2: about the life and legacy of Timothy Dean. Recently, my 162 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 2: producer Jonathan and I took a drive over the Hollywood 163 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 2: Hills into the San Fernando Valley to meet with a 164 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 2: good friend of Timothy Dean, Richard Martin. 165 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 8: Richard. 166 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 5: Yes, hey, how are you? 167 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 8: I'm good? How about yourself? 168 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 5: So? 169 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 3: Okay? 170 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 5: Sorry? 171 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 2: We met Richard Barden at his home in Ta Luca Lake. 172 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 2: He's a Hollywood talent manager, mainly of soap opera actors. 173 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 2: You can see heads of actors all around his office, 174 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 2: all faces that looks sort of familiar. 175 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 5: Stelle Harris from Seinfeld and Missus potato Head. 176 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 3: She was my first client. 177 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 2: And there is a tour that is I mean that 178 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 2: must be where something. There's a Missus potato Head from 179 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 2: toy Starter. 180 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:18,839 Speaker 5: She signed the top of it and signed. 181 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 2: Richard is one of Timothy Dean's closest friends. And as 182 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 2: he shows me around, you can see there are a lot 183 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 2: of photos. 184 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 5: It's right in the right in here so yes, I 185 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 5: got to fund all these. You know, my husband takes 186 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 5: things away sometimes because I could be a little emotional 187 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 5: at times with things. 188 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 3: But he's tim and is this you Yeah, that was me. 189 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 5: That's probably the time when I met Tim. 190 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 2: In this picture, he looks like he's about in his thirties. 191 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 2: Richard and Timothy met in the nineties at the Golden 192 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 2: Gym in Hollywood. Timothy Dean was tall, had broad shoulders 193 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 2: and an even broader smile. He was handsome, and when 194 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 2: he wasn't on the basketball court, you just might see 195 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 2: him sporting a well tailored suit with a variety of 196 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 2: bow ties. And after they first met at the gym, 197 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 2: Timothy and Richard remained friends and they sort of grew 198 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 2: up together trying to figure out the workings of West 199 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 2: Hollywood in the early aughts. 200 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 3: And it's clear from. 201 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 2: Our conversation that Timothy ding he really celebrated life. 202 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 5: One of the things that I always knew every year 203 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 5: is that his birthday wasn't his birthday, It wasn't a 204 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 5: birth week, it was a birth month. He loved to 205 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 5: celebrate his birthday. My husband and I threw his surprise 206 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 5: fiftieth birthday party. 207 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 3: And we pulled it off. 208 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 5: How I don't know what we did. If you never 209 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 5: met Jim, he was, you knew he was in the room. 210 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 3: The thing is he could fill a room physically. He 211 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 3: was athletic. 212 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 2: You know. 213 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:51,679 Speaker 3: They met at a gym. 214 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 2: Timothy enjoyed all parts of Hollywood, though there was an 215 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 2: air of mystery about him. For instance, Richard threw Timothy's 216 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 2: fortieth and fiftieth birthday parties. After going through the math, 217 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 2: Richard realized that the two parties were actually only seven 218 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 2: years apart. 219 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 5: But it wasn't really his fortieth. He it was his 220 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 5: forty third. But when I found out, when I added 221 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 5: things up to his fifty, I'm like, wait a minute, 222 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 5: this can't be fifty since forty three was only seven 223 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 5: years ago, and they lived with other girl. I like 224 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 5: a party. 225 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 2: Timothy Dean loved the party, and he loved being a 226 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 2: part of Hollywood life. He had a daily access to glamour. 227 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 2: He worked as a fashion consultant at Satsmith Avenue. Before that, 228 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 2: it was Bloomingdale's and Beverly Hills. Those kinds of jobs 229 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 2: put Timothy Dean at the very heart of what we 230 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 2: might call the Hollywood industrial complex. Designers, stylist, celebrities would 231 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 2: have all been among the people that he interacted with. 232 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 5: We'd like to talk about reality television. We would talk 233 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 5: about every Real Housewives. He had an opinion about everyone 234 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 5: from Orange County to you know, the Real Housewives of 235 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 5: New York. 236 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 9: We were all shiny hood ornaments. We were all train wrecks. 237 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 9: I know, we were all I've run with a fabulous 238 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 9: circle of people, the New York Magazine and the Real 239 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 9: Social I thought they were like, what the fuck? I 240 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 9: was broken a studio park. We were all flawed. 241 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 5: Tim always felt like he knew them, and he would 242 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 5: be like, oh, did you He would miss VICKI did, 243 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 5: and all the old girl she'd he would always want 244 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 5: to talk to me about. And I fed into it. 245 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 5: I love I did love it. 246 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 3: What sense did you have with his family? Well, I 247 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 3: had a different sense. 248 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 5: Prior to I had met his sister and they weren't 249 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 5: really fully understanding of of him being gay. And I 250 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 5: felt that explained that they just didn't couldn't understand why this. 251 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 3: Beautiful, you know. 252 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 5: Man was gay and I don't. I honestly, to this day, 253 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 5: I don't really think they fully understand that. I just 254 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 5: don't think that they fully accepted him being gay. 255 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 3: How did you see him deal with that? 256 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 5: He came out to LA to become a totally different person, 257 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 5: and did he succeed in parts of it? 258 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 3: Yes and parts Now. 259 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 5: I think he had demons in him that came back 260 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 5: from honestly, and I don't really care because I've expressed 261 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 5: this to his family. I just don't think that he 262 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 5: ever felt fully embraced by his family. 263 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 2: Tailor is oldest time. Timothy Dean would do what gay 264 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 2: men do. He made his own family. He would help 265 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 2: his friends start his management company, doing everything from working 266 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 2: the phones to helping him find clients. And like so 267 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 2: many imposing tall black men, Timothy Dean cared about his 268 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 2: appearances and especially his clothes. 269 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 3: I mean, he talked to those who knew him. 270 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 2: He seemed to be on a constant self improvement streak. 271 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 2: Toward the end of his life, He'd be baptized at 272 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 2: the Megachurch one LA, and he would decide to get 273 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 2: his college degree while in his forties, all signs of 274 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 2: a man who was looking very much towards the future. 275 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 5: I think one of the proudest moments of Timothy Dean's 276 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 5: life is when he graduated from Senemon College two years 277 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 5: He wore that cap and gown all night long, and 278 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 5: he was so proud of himself that he finally accomplished that. 279 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 5: Because he got no help from anybody. He did that 280 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 5: on his own. He had no family to help him. 281 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 5: He just decided that that's what he wanted to do. 282 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 5: He wanted to actually better himself. 283 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 2: He would get his college degree surrounded by his friends. 284 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 2: He'd write about his accomplishment on Facebook that quote, this 285 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 2: degree will not change the world, but it will be 286 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 2: the first degree earned by anyone in my family. I'm 287 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 2: Scenario Glinton. This is shattering the system. The True crime 288 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 2: podcast that's about more men crowd, This is shattering the system. 289 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 2: I'm Sinnari Glinton. 290 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 3: That's Timothy Dane. 291 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 2: You here happily clapping and talking a bit in a 292 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 2: video clip shared by his friend Richard Martin, a video 293 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 2: that was not shared with us by anyone. Is a 294 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 2: part of Tim's life that the media widely reported on. 295 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 2: It was his work as an adult film actor known 296 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 2: by the name Whole Hunter, and many of the stories 297 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 2: about Timothy Dane, there is a prudish way that his 298 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 2: life is written about focusing on his work in porn 299 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 2: and his sex work to the exclusion of everything else. 300 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 2: And I think that this is a part of the 301 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 2: story of Timothy Dean, the pearl clutching that's happened in 302 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 2: relation to his sex work. I can't pretend to clutch 303 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 2: my non existent pearls. As a gay man who's lived 304 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 2: in multiple cities, I've known queer sex workers in Hollywood 305 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 2: or West Hollywood. It's kind of hard not to know them. 306 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 2: I have several friends who have done or do sex work, 307 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 2: and ed Buck isn't alone having paid for sex. I have, 308 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 2: and so have many other gay men. Now, I didn't 309 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 2: want to talk about Timothy Dean's sex work in a vacuum. 310 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 8: Hi. So my name is Alex Garner. I'm the director 311 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 8: of Community Engagement and Impact. Global Impact is a global 312 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 8: nonprofit working not to advance gay men's health and human rights. 313 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 2: The reason we wanted to talk to someone like Alex 314 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 2: Garner about sex work is that it's a reality of 315 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 2: the story and how ed Buck was able to lure 316 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 2: men to his home. It's one of the systems ed 317 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 2: Buck used to target a marginalized group. As I talked 318 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 2: to Alex Garner over a Zoom call. We touched on 319 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,199 Speaker 2: everything from the economics of sex work to the changing 320 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 2: nature of gay dating. He could relate to the choices 321 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 2: that Timothy being made. 322 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 8: I mean, I think so much of it has to 323 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 8: do with your relationship to sex, and your relationship to 324 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 8: your body, and your relationship to the idea that someone's 325 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 8: going to pay you money to have sex with them. 326 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 8: And I would have friends that would ask me, oh, 327 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 8: do you think I should do it? And I would say, 328 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 8: if you feel psychologically that you can handle any of 329 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 8: the issues that can come with it, and I mean 330 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 8: issues largely around feeling internally shame and guilt around something 331 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 8: that you're doing that's going to destroy you. Right, if 332 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 8: you're doing a job, any job, and doing that job 333 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 8: makes you feel makes you hate yourself, then that's not 334 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 8: the job for you. And we have everything in our 335 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,360 Speaker 8: society and culture that reinforces this idea that if you're 336 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 8: doing sex work, all these list of bad things about you, 337 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 8: immoral and wrong and dirty and perverted. So if you're 338 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 8: able to overcome those things and see it as simply 339 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 8: another job, a job that you can enjoy, a job 340 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 8: that you can be good at, then you can you 341 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 8: can be successful. But if if unfortunately you're you aren't 342 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 8: able to do that, you don't have the skills or 343 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 8: the support to overcome or navigate that, then it can 344 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 8: do harm. 345 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 2: We don't know whether not Timothy Dane found fulfillment and 346 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 2: doing sex scenes. We do know that money was tight. 347 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 2: That's true of a lot of Angelino's. The average home 348 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 2: in Los Angeles goes for a nine hundred and fifty 349 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 2: thousand dollars or an eight hundred square foot apartment goes 350 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 2: for an average twenty seven hundred dollars a month. And 351 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 2: we all play those games. How much money would it 352 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 2: take for you to cross some boundary? The key to 353 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,679 Speaker 2: what Timothy Dean and Jamel Moore could be manipulated, Gardner says, 354 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 2: is they weren't economically vulnerable. 355 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 8: If this person wasn't feeling economically vulnerable, they'd be less 356 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 8: likely to say yes to that if they didn't really 357 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 8: want to do it. Right, So we say yes to 358 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 8: things all the time if we think it's going to 359 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 8: make us more money. And we do that because we 360 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 8: often are feeling economically vulnerable, right, whether it's in terms 361 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 8: of housing or food or whatnot. So I think that's 362 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 8: the other larger structural issue, is that if people didn't 363 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,120 Speaker 8: have to worry about those sorts of things, they would 364 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 8: make very different choices. They would have very different boundaries 365 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 8: when it comes to things like sex work, because those 366 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 8: boundaries can move depending on how hungry you are. 367 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,199 Speaker 3: And that's perfectly reasonable. 368 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 2: When you're worried about eviction or getting food and you 369 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 2: see forty two thousand homeless people that's according to the 370 00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 2: Los Angeles Homeless Services Authority, which are disproportionately black. Man, 371 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 2: it's no surprise. Two men struggling to make ends meet, 372 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 2: but do what they had to do. 373 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 10: But at some point, you know, an interesting story is 374 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 10: that he was contemplating having a child with the lesbian lady. 375 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 3: That's Otavio today. 376 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 2: He was Timothy Dean's last roommate, and the time that 377 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 2: he knew Timothy, he saw him contemplating major life changes. 378 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 2: Timothy had gotten a college degree in his forties, and 379 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 2: Octavio says, when Timothy was in his fifties, he was 380 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 2: thinking about having a child. 381 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 10: And that was an interesting thing because I once came 382 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 10: home at the time that maybe was not expected, and 383 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 10: I sort of opened the door in the middle of 384 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 10: a private moment. 385 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 3: Of your gay roommate with a woman. 386 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 10: Yes, yes, yes, And you know clearly might have needed 387 00:21:55,720 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 10: a little bit of additional stimulation because on TV there 388 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 10: was a gay porn going on. I'm telling the story 389 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 10: because what's interesting to me is that the man was 390 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 10: really trying to find purpose in his life. 391 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 2: The two men could not have been more different. There 392 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 2: was a twenty year age gap and a difference in 393 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 2: their sexualities, but Octavio says Timothy was someone that he 394 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 2: genuinely came to care for. Octavio says Timothy's generosity helped 395 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 2: him stay in La. Probably the most important gift that 396 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 2: Timothy gave him was that he allowed him to live 397 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 2: in his apartment off the books. 398 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 10: He lived in this apartment with the rent control, and 399 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 10: I was never on the lease. I should have been 400 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 10: on the lease, you know, because by doing that they 401 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 10: would have had a claim to raise the rent. So 402 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 10: in order to allow me to live with you know 403 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 10: this very convenient rent, et cetera, you know, we we 404 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 10: sort of kept it among us. 405 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,479 Speaker 2: Timothy Dan could have charged market rent for Octavio, but 406 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 2: instead charged him a ridiculously low amount O Tavio had 407 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 2: never seen Timothy on hard drugs, so he had no 408 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 2: idea what was in store for him when he got 409 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 2: to the apartment that late January night. He had just 410 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 2: gotten back from visiting his family in Bologna. 411 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 10: So you know, I had the flight like early, like 412 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 10: seven am from Bologna. My mom and my father drove 413 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 10: me to the airport. 414 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 2: From Bologna to lax fine economy can take twenty four 415 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 2: hours easy. 416 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 10: And then you get to la and they broke my 417 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 10: luggage in you know, probably loading it in the plane. 418 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 10: One wheel is missing and literally is not even closing well. 419 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 10: So you know, I leave the airport, I take an uber. 420 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 10: I put all my stuff in, and you know, I 421 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 10: approached Hampton Avenue and I see you know, lights and 422 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 10: trucks and the I'm like, oh, weird, you know, maybe 423 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 10: they're filming something. And the uber driver that was a 424 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 10: Los Angeles native, he's like, no, you know, these are 425 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 10: trucks from the news. Something must have happened. 426 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 3: And I'm like okay. 427 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 10: So, you know, I leave the Uber and I'm approaching 428 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 10: the building and literally. 429 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 3: There is like a crowd of people. 430 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 10: Seeing me approaching this building, you know, coming closer to me. 431 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 2: There are those moments when your life it's changed and 432 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 2: you're just waiting to hear about it. 433 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 10: And I have like these broken legs luggage that I'm drugging, 434 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 10: and I have a bunch of clothes in my arms 435 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 10: and backpack. 436 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 2: The next thing he knows, he's blinded by lights and 437 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 2: staring down the barrel of microphones. 438 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 10: You know, they start pointing lights and microphones like I'm like, 439 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 10: what's going on. It's like they asked me, do you 440 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 10: live here? And I'm like yeah, And then somebody takes 441 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 10: out a phone with a picture and it's a picture 442 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 10: of Timothy's like do you know this person? 443 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 3: Like yeah, it's my roommate. And everybody's like. 444 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 10: You know, coming closer more, and I'm like, what's going on? 445 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 2: You know, Otavio has no idea what has happened. 446 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,439 Speaker 10: They really got closer to me just to try to 447 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 10: gather more information, and the first thing they told me 448 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 10: is like we are trying to identify a victim, you know, 449 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 10: like we we think that the person that you know 450 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 10: passed away is this timusit In and we're gonna, you know, 451 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 10: we're gonna show you the picture to pretty much confirm 452 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,199 Speaker 10: his identity. I was not believing in my ears, you know, 453 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,959 Speaker 10: like I mean, you know, I certainly was like, oh, 454 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 10: you know, you know, I want to know more what's 455 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 10: going on here? 456 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 3: You know how you know what happened. 457 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 10: They didn't really have much information at that time. They 458 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 10: just said, you know, he was found dead in an 459 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 10: apartment not far away from here. And the version that 460 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 10: they told me it was like that, you know, I 461 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 10: think there were cameras in the building. You know that 462 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 10: he was let's say reported to enter the apartment or 463 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 10: the building, you know, let's say at midnight, and at 464 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:50,439 Speaker 10: twelve thirty it was declared that by paramedics. So what 465 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 10: happened is that once I went through the crowd of journalists, 466 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 10: et cetera, you know, I entered the building and I 467 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 10: go up to the apartment and literally I'm in the 468 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 10: apartment for two men and said I hear knocking at 469 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 10: the door, and the gentleman that was the manager of 470 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,199 Speaker 10: the building is like, you know, like there is a 471 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 10: murder investigation. You are not on the lease, you know, 472 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 10: you can't really stay here. So now it's like one 473 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 10: a m And I have my stupid broken luggage, et cetera. 474 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 10: And I have no time, you know, so I grabbed 475 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 10: like a couple of socks and underwear and I leave. 476 00:26:27,040 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 2: After me in the state away two men dead in 477 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 2: one apartment, and yet ed Buck was still allowed to 478 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 2: keep luring men there. On the surface, it's a tourist mecca, 479 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 2: but West Hollywood has a very deep history of organized crime, 480 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 2: corruption and vice. That's on the next episode. Shattering the 481 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 2: System is a production of Macro Studios and iHeart Podcasts. 482 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 2: I'm your host Snari Glynn. You can follow me on 483 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 2: Instagram at scenari plus the Number one. Our executive producers 484 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 2: are Charles D. King, Asha Corpus, Win, Royorecchio, Jonathan Hunger, 485 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 2: Lindsay Hoffman, and Snari Linton. 486 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 3: That's Me. Our podcast is. 487 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 2: Co written and produced by Ralph Cooper Third and ben 488 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 2: Corey Jones. Erica Rodriguez is our associate producer. Dana Conway 489 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 2: is our archival producer. Chris Mann is the audio engineer, 490 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 2: and sound design and music provided by Chris Mann with 491 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 2: Podshaper and Amy Via Lobos with help from Lisa Pollock. 492 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 2: Our assistant editors are Amie Via Lobos and r Protress. 493 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 2: Special thanks to Jennifer bon Montoni and the Press s 494 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 2: LA Agency. Also special thanks to Porsche, Robertson, Maigas and 495 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 2: Karen Grigsby dates. 496 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 3: Stay tuned for what's the next shattering the system. See 497 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 3: you next time.