WEBVTT - How Fasting Turned Into Silicon Valley's Latest Obsession 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:06.680 Adding the liquid to the bottle. I have a little 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:12.520 bit more to do. Um, and I'm somewhere between one. Oh, 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:15.280 I went over a little bit, but that's okay. This 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:17.919 is me on a recent morning. I'm with the show's 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:20.639 co host, Hockey. I was on day three of this 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:24.159 five day diet that mimics the effects of fasting. It 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:26.560 sounds like you're filling up a water bottle. Yeah, I 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:28.920 was mixing up this drink that's supposed to give you 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:31.520 some of the nutrients your body needs, but without loading 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:33.600 you up on a bunch of calories. So this is 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:36.040 instead of having a real breakfast. Now you get to 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:39.760 have breakfast too. They feed you these breakfast bars and 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:44.519 they're actually pretty tasty nuts, honey, coconut. But yes, far 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.000 fewer calories than you would expect. It's not gonna kill me. Yeah, 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:53.440 go for it. What does it smell like, No, it's 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:56.640 it's yeah, it's like this. It smells like a cherry 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:03.200 Nike will would is not a bad thing. Over the 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.559 last five months or so, I've tried all kinds of fasts, 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:11.240 thirty six hours, three day, five day fast that mimic 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:13.720 the effects of a fast. Yeah, time I've watched it 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:17.120 with equal amounts of admiration, horror, and the concern of 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:20.399 a Jewish parent, as has just about everyone else around me. 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:25.360 So I've heard about the Silicon Valley obsession with fasting. 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:27.840 Is it just about losing weight? For some people, it's 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:31.320 about wanting to lose weight and be healthier. For other people, 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:35.200 it's a productivity hack to work faster, to focus better. 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:37.400 And what about you? What made you want to try it? 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:39.959 I definitely wanted to see if I could get those 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:43.280 benefits too. There was also a religious component to it. 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:46.160 This fell during Lent, when a lot of people fast, 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:50.800 but as a tech journalist, I was just curious. Fasting 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.760 has become this huge trend in text circles, and I 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:57.360 wanted to understand why. So I joined forces with our 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:10.640 colleagues Selina Wang to help with additional report name. Hi, 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.320 I'm Brad Stone, I'm Tom Giles, and I'm Selena Wayne. 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:17.120 And this week on Decrypted, we're taking a look at 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:22.600 Silicon Valley's latest obsession, intermittent fasting, from young entrepreneurs to 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:26.760 establish executives. Fasting has become a fixture in the tech community, 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:28.720 and like a lot of other fads that catch on 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:31.480 in Silicon Valley. All kinds of startups are emerging to 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.840 make a business out of it. So today you're gonna 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:37.000 be meeting some of these enthusiasts and businesses and we'll 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.440 be asking are the supposed benefits real or is this 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:44.320 under indulgence simply another form of over indulgence here in 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:52.000 Silicon Valley? Stay with us. So people have been fasting 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:54.760 since time immemorial, but the kind of fast thing we're 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.600 talking about today is pretty specific, that's right. And there 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:00.240 are a lot of different iterations of it, every thing 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:02.880 from skipping a few meals a few times a week 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.079 to these water only fast that go on for days. 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:09.800 Of course, before I started any of them, I went 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:11.640 to see my doctor to talk about it. And what 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:15.280 did your doctor say? My doctor had no reservations. His take, 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:19.359 go for it. I started small. I did twenty hour 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:22.760 fast three days a week. You're essentially skipping breakfast and 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:25.840 lunch and confining your eating window to about four hours 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:28.959 in the afternoon evening. It's known as the Warrior fast 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:31.360 for the good stress it puts on your body. Okay, 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:33.640 and how did that go for you? Well, in the beginning, 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:36.240 I'd get really hungry on my fasting days, and i'd 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.400 get a little testy in the afternoons. Let me read 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:43.560 you a journal entry from about three weeks in. I 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:47.480 am so damn hungry, counting the hours until I can 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:50.800 start eating again. Someone a few rows over was eating 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:53.400 an onion begel and I couldn't see it, but I 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:57.720 could recognize the aroma instantly. That sounds pretty dark. I 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:00.320 didn't know that we were counting you whether afternoons next. 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:03.520 I also tried fasting for thirty six hours at a time, 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:06.440 but I really gravitated towards an approach that would let 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:08.640 me have dinner with my family each night. But I 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:11.600 also remember you going on some longer fasts right. One 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:15.200 especially intense one was a three day water only. Okay, 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:18.320 that sounds very brutal. I recorded a voice diary for 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:23.840 that one. I definitely feel hunger. It's clear to me 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.800 that I was thinking about food as I slept last night, 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:31.599 because I remembered a dream where I was at a 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:36.760 gathering and there were piles of bread and a mountain 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:39.440 of garlic bread, and then there were stacks of Pizzas. 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:49.600 My wife is out of pocket, and so it's my 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:53.080 turn to do dinner tonight, and I will definitely be tempted, 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.960 but I am confident I will resist, and I might 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:59.120 even go downstairs and have a little bit of a 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:03.560 workout in our home, Jim. Right now, I am feeling 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:14.400 very focused, very energetic. I had a very productive day. 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:18.320 You know, you actually sound surprisingly upbeat. You know, I 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.000 got used to it. Probably the hardest one I did 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:23.200 was a five day fast that you heard me try 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:25.080 at the top of the show, of the one where 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:27.720 you were allowed a very limited number of calories. That's right. 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:30.680 You get about eleven calories on the first day and 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:34.000 then eight hundred on each of the four following days. 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:37.559 You can't work out on this one, and by days 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.880 four and five I was feeling especially tired. I also 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:48.680 just missed the variety of a normal diet. As I 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.480 tried more of these fasts, Selena and I went to 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:59.280 go meet someone who's had a lot of success with it. Hi, Hie. 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.080 This is Sumaya Kazi today. She has this kind of 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:07.400 cult status within the fasting community ever since she wrote 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:10.480 this medium post about her fasting lifestyle that went viral 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:13.480 just a few years ago. Samaya was running a start 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:16.440 up and she was pulling long days and nights, just 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:19.600 like a lot of other entrepreneurs in Silicon Valley. At 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:22.960 a certain point, she really reached her breaking point. Seven 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.840 years of building a company is probably the worst thing 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:30.040 you can do for your health. It is so difficult 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:32.360 on your body, with the stress, the lack of sleep, 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:36.760 the late nights, the eating bat I had high blood pressure, 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:39.520 I had issues with sleep apnea, I was pre diabetic, 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:43.360 and I was obese. She tried exercising, she tried all 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:46.279 kinds of diets, but the thing that finally worked for 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:50.360 her was fasting. She's lost fifty pounds, ten point five 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:54.279 percent body fat, and forty around her body, and she's 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:58.520 kept it up. I fast Monday's, Wednesday's, Friday's, I have 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:02.680 coffee of water, sparkling water, have tea, I go to bed. 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.720 It's actually such a relief to not have to think 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:09.000 about your next meal half the week. Over the years, 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:11.800 she's seen a lot of other people take up fasting too. 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:13.880 There's been such a cultural shift, at least in my 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:17.680 own community, where more people are fasting than not. Throughout 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:20.480 our reporting process, one of the big questions I've had 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:23.840 is why is this so appealing to people? In Silicon Valley. 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:26.560 We asked, Sumya, I feel like that's really appealing in 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:29.560 the Silicon Valley and startup community, because again, you're working 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.600 really really long days, and anything that can help you 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:37.680 be feel more productive, more focused, UM, reduced your decision 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:40.880 making that you need to do UM and make you 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:43.160 feel good is something that people kind of strive for 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:45.640 in this community. So did so MAYA have any tips 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:48.960 for you? Tom? I gotta say her story is pretty inspiring, 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.760 and it's really no wonder that she's gotten her colleagues 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.280 and friends and family to take up fasting. So from her, 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:58.280 I adopted her three times a week approach, even though 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:10.600 I'm nowhere near as hardcore. A lot of fasters also 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:14.000 call themselves bio hackers. They think of themselves as hacking 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:17.160 their own biology. I visited an entrepreneur in his thirties 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:19.239 here in the Bay Area who takes this a lot 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.200 further than someone like Sumaya. He takes it to the 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.760 very extreme, taking all of these pills every morning. And 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:28.360 then those went about those pills. I take them every 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:32.000 morning as well, so I just measure them out more 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:35.880 carefully because this is search forgett He's an intermittent faster too. 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:38.319 He typically eats only one meal a day in the 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.240 later afternoon, but he actually does a lot more than that. 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:44.360 He fasts and takes about forty pills a day to 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:49.240 have what he says is better energy, mood, focus, confidence, sleep, willpower, 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:59.600 and longevity. Okay, alright, one last round, one more handful. Yeah, 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:02.480 I'm not sure. So some of the pill search takes 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.160 our things. You and I might take vitamins and supplements 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:08.079 that are over the counter, like fish oil, garlic, and tumeric. 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:11.199 But he takes it a step further with prescription meds 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.160 and working with a team of medical experts, including Peter A. Tia, 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:17.160 a well known doctor in the space. So the stuff 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:23.880 is this is um, These are basically thyroid hormones. This 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:28.520 is medaphanel, which is like UM intelligence enhancer that a 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:32.080 lot of college students use. And I take style prom, 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:35.920 which is an antidepressant. Wow, this seems very serious. I'm 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:38.439 glad he has a team of doctors looking over him. Yeah. 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:40.360 I was definitely surprised to walk into his bathroom and 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:43.480 see these prescription meds everywhere. But on top of that, 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:46.520 he also tracks his blood work, hormones, sugar, levels and 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:50.480 insulin resistance. Tom, you never went this far right? Oh no, 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:53.560 nowhere close. I had my blood tested a few times, 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.120 and I tested other things from time to time, but 0:09:56.559 --> 0:10:00.160 nothing quite this quantified search has an interesting philosophy. He 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:03.559 runs this AI startup called Mirror AI, and he likens 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:06.240 humans to robots. He says, there's no reason why we 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:09.160 can't just engineer ourselves to live longer and work better. 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:12.040 I would just keep asking myself, Okay, what else can 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:15.520 we do that's safe, that on my medical team will 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:19.559 help me with, and that will give me more benefits 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:23.120 in terms of just better cognitive ability, better ability to 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:27.680 perform my tasks. So originally the started as an interesting 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:33.520 longevity but now it's more about enhancing my performance, enhancing 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:37.280 my competitiveness relative to other people. You can really hear 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:40.640 the engineer's mindset here. It's almost like Serge is testing 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:43.000 new software or something. Yeah, that's a good way to 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:45.400 put it. I mean, to most people his regimen will 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.880 sound nuts, but to Sarge, it's a no brainer. So 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:52.840 look and Valley is um competitive community full of very 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.560 smart people. And when you're a smart person in a 0:10:56.600 --> 0:11:00.360 competitive group of smart people, you keep looking for advance. Interesting. 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:03.280 You kind of arrive at this conclusion that you know 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:08.320 your health is a competitive advantage tool. It's really stupid 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:13.679 not to focus on optimizing your health. It's just you 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:25.480 instantly become uncompetitive compared with people who do this. Underlying 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:29.120 all this enthusiasm about fasting is at least some science, 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:32.920 like the work of Professor Walter Longo. Selena and I 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:35.440 had the chance to visit his lab at the University 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:39.080 of Southern California. We walked into this building with several 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:43.040 large room filled with row after row of mice stacked 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:53.040 in columns. We started in the hallway. Yes, yes, petive gear, 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:58.120 protective gear. Is this to protect our bacteria from the right, 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:04.079 to protect the mice from us? Yeah, exactly, We're not 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:08.800 going to catch anything. Walter has been researching calorie restriction 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:11.520 and fasting for decades. They were about more than a 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:13.640 thousand mice in his lab, and they were all on 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:17.280 these various fast mimicking diets. The moment we stepped inside, 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:19.520 we were hit with this waft of a very pungent 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:22.240 animal smell, like when you walk into a pet store. 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.559 It's all very counterintuitive. The idea that eating less can 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:28.480 produce more energy and a longer life. So what did 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:31.080 his research find. It's shown a number of things. First 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:33.839 that mice on fasting diets live longer and perform better 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:37.120 at tasks. It's also shown that fasting and mice starves 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.760 cancer cells and helps chemotherapy drugs more effectively kill cancer. 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.319 And a very low calorie diet can slow multiple sclerosis 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:48.559 by killing off bad cells and generating new ones. Fasting 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:54.320 exploding the bodies evolved ability to do his job. That's 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:59.200 extremely powerful, more powerful than almost anything that you can 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:02.840 imagine in man along. So for maximum anti aging effects 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:07.320 and cellver generation, Walter advocates for longer but slightly less 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:11.319 strict fasts. So he's created this company. It's called l Neutra, 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:14.800 and it's commercialized. This five day diet that he recommends. 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.480 The diets called pro Lawn comes in a box with 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:22.920 five days of food, everything that you need for that period, soups, 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:27.400 drink mixes, breakfast bars, even some desserts, but at a 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:31.360 severely reduced calorie intake. So this is the delicious concoction 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:33.359 we heard you mixing at the start of the show. 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:36.880 That's right, and you're consuming so few calories that you 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:41.040 supposedly get the benefits of fasting, because Walter says it's 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:43.920 not a good idea. To eat absolutely nothing for five 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:49.920 days is dangerous because it can cause hypoglycemia, is dangerous 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:54.920 cause hypotension. For our non doctor listeners, Hypoglycemia is what 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:58.760 happens when your blood sugar is too low, and extreme cases, 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:03.280 it can result in confuse, Usian seizures, a loss of consciousness, 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:06.800 and then hypo tension is overly low blood pressure and 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:09.719 it can be life threatening. Walter's company is backed by 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:13.000 millions of dollars in government and private funding. We should 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:15.840 also note that it costs two dollars for the five 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:19.400 day regimen. That's a little expensive because you know, eating 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:23.760 less is pretty inexpensive. Yeah, but if you think about it, 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:26.360 it's all the food that you need for five days. 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:30.680 There's also a consultation with the nutritionists in the mix, 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:34.880 and more than forty five thousand people have subjected themselves 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:39.000 to this regiment. The company works with thousands of physicians 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:40.880 that use the meal Plan as a way to treat 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:45.760 people with metabolic issues related to increased weight, high blood pressure, 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:50.480 high cholesterol, and insulin resistance. Walter says His science boils 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.640 down to this, you're essentially tricking your body into going 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:57.280 into starvation mode that breaks down and regenerates the inside 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:01.320 of cells, killing off and replacing aged one. And of 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.800 course I use always the analogy of a wood burning train, right, 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:06.840 and so now imagine you running out of fuel. You've 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:09.960 got to get to the next train station, and the 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:13.000 engineer starts looking around the train for wood that it 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.240 can burn. Of course, you wouldn't want to take the 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:18.080 good one. The chairs that are are the walls that 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.720 are in good shape. Take the bad one first, right, 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:23.120 So take a part of their chairs that are broken, etcetera. 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:25.640 Use it for a feel. Now the train becomes lighter 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:33.240 and you eat yourself for a few So that's one 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.600 way to make a business out of fasting, by making 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:38.320 these kids that help people get the benefits of starvation 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:42.880 without actually starving to death themselves. Another interesting business model 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:45.560 is one that a startup called plate Joy is doing. 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.800 The company puts you on these personalized nutrition plans. It's 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:54.080 CEO is Christina Bognet. We get paid by insurance companies 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:57.640 when people lose weight, and so as a company we 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:00.240 had to do a lot of thinking around it. Was 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:02.280 actually going to help people lose weight, and we know 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.320 that most diets fail and that most people it's very 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:07.840 hard for most people to lose weight long term. Christina 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:10.680 herself lost a lot of weight from fasting, and Plajoy 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:14.520 teaches its pre diabetes customers had fast We suggest is 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:18.280 that you try sixty hour fasts every day for two weeks, 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:21.160 see how it goes. Report back. We'll know how it's 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.680 going because we're looking at the data as well. And 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:25.960 what I love about it is that the results tend 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:28.680 to be quick. This particular program rolled out at the 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.920 end of February, so we're hearing from people who have said, 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:34.400 I have not been able to get my weight to budge. 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:37.160 I'm done seven pounds of two weeks. This is incredible, 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.360 this is life changing. One person said, I could cry 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:44.400 with gratitude. This is exactly what I needed. So that's interesting. 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:47.120 One day your insurance provider could even pay you for 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:49.480 all the weight you've lost. Yeah, you kind of get 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:52.200 the appeal to an insurance provider given all the health 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:59.480 problems that are associated with obesity. So I think I'm 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:02.880 still pretty skeptical about this absolutely. I mean, there is 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:05.639 still a lot of disagreement in the medical and scientific 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:09.280 community over the benefits of fasting. For example, Valter Longo 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:12.359 the scientists says daily fast more than twelve hours can 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:15.480 lead to an increased risk in golf stone formation. Some 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.359 physicians say there's just not enough data that shows the 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.719 long term effects of fasting methods and humans. They've tested 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.720 it in things like yeast and mice, right, and what 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:28.040 works for mice might not necessarily be that great for humans. 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:30.639 And another concern of some doctors is how could this 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:33.840 potentially lead to another eating disorder or be a precursor 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:37.359 to one. Okay, so lots of caveats and risks to this, 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:41.159 even with some promising science. Tom, how did your experience 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:44.000 turn out well? At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:48.239 I definitely reaped some positive benefits. First of all, I 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:52.000 lost about twenty pounds over five months um. I definitely 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:56.200 saw a reduction in my cholesterol levels. I was able 0:17:56.240 --> 0:18:00.000 to test for catosis, which is basically that stage where 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:04.640 where your body is using it's fat for energy instead 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:08.720 of glycogen um. On days of fasting, I really did 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:14.439 feel like I had higher mental clarity, higher productivity, and 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:18.800 supposedly this results in stem cell regeneration, but that's a 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:22.800 lot harder to measure. So, Selena, you tried Walter Longo's 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:25.960 five day fast? How did that go? So? I'm sort 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:29.120 of a serial snacker, so it was very difficult for me. 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:31.879 I almost broke the fast multiple times, but I stuck 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:34.280 with it. Day three was definitely the worst. It was 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:37.760 hard for me to focus because I was so hungry. Interestingly, 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.720 day five was the easiest for me. I wasn't that hungry. 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:44.160 I felt light and sort of energetic, like I could 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.320 go for days without eating. But on the sixth day, 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:50.240 happily eight. Well, I saw both of you guys doing it, 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:53.320 and I just have to remark on how much discipline 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:56.400 it required, and I was admired it quite a bit. 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.720 But why do you guys think that intermittent fasting has 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:03.240 captured the spirit of Silicon Valley? Why has this trend 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:07.080 started here? Kevin Rose, for example, the entrepreneur who found 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.679 a dig He talked about how it's part of this 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:14.440 quantified self movement where people just love to track all 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:19.159 these all these metrics about themselves. They have these elaborate spreadsheets, 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:22.080 and it's really sort of this obsession with optimization and 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:25.119 enhancing her own self competitiveness. Yeah, that reminds me of 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:28.320 Phil Libbon. We've all read about his story where this 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:31.720 guy lost sixty pounds over the course of several months 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:36.400 through intermittent fasting. He's a total true believer. He says 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:40.000 it makes him happier, more more productive, mentally sharper. He 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:43.720 talked about how if he's got an important meaning coming up, um, 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:45.879 he'll try to you know, he'll try to fast for 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:47.600 two or three days in the run up to it. 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:50.640 But even he is able to look at this with 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:54.199 some degree of skepticism. He also says it's kind of 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:57.600 like appealing to the worst instincts of us in Silicon Valley, 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:00.359 people who want to feel smug and SUPERI year to 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:03.960 everyone else like we found this secret, we found this hack. 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:06.800 It's also really a luxury, as you said, to be 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:09.880 able to fast. It's ironically sort of for the elites. 0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:13.439 Version of over indulging is not indulging at all. And 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:15.560 when I spoke to Sarah, she was very open about it. 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.399 He said it costs him about two hundred thousand dollars 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:20.880 out of pocket to get all the prescription meds. See 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:24.159 all of these specialists, doctors. This isn't cheap. What is 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:27.240 the risk that this trend pushes people to start behaving 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:30.760 or eating unhealthily. Well, I spoke to the director of 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:34.320 the Eating Disorder National Program, and she said that any 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:38.120 type of diet can lead to eating disorders, especially one 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:41.080 like fasting, where you sort of get into this reward 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:43.400 cycle where you feel like you really accomplished something by 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:45.959 not eating. You see the weight loss, So there's definitely 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:48.400 a risk there. This is This is why I think 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:51.800 it's really important. And everyone again we talked to said 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:54.960 this is you got to do it in consultation with 0:20:55.440 --> 0:21:00.280 your doctor, with a medical expert. Admittedly weird people who 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:04.000 have the advantage of, you know, great health care and 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:08.240 access to physicians. Not everyone does, but certainly anybody who's 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:10.280 going to embark on something like this needs to be 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:14.000 in contact with a physician. And bottom line, this is difficult, 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:18.280 expensive and non intuitive. So right now, it's makes sense 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:21.119 that it's really concentrated in Silicon Valley, where there's a 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:25.120 sort of engineering mindset. So, Tom, fasting, is this phenomenon 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:30.080 here in Silicon Valley? Uh? Considering though that it is expensive, 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:34.359 considering that you need medical oversight. Uh, considering that eating 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:36.919 three meals a day and snacking is something of its 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:40.480 own religion elsewhere in the country, can this spread outside 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:42.199 of tech? Yeah, you're right. There is a lot of 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:45.960 reasons why this appeals here. And it's very convenient and 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:48.639 something of a luxury for people who live in cities 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:52.280 like San Francisco, New York City. Plus there's a huge 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:55.800 economic incentive for the food industry to get us to 0:21:55.840 --> 0:21:58.320 buy into this idea that we have to have breakfast, 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:00.760 we have to have snacks, we have to have three 0:22:01.240 --> 0:22:05.040 plus meals a day. So there's a lot of reasons why. Uh, 0:22:05.119 --> 0:22:09.560 it's it's unlikely to spread. Having said that, there is 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:11.280 a there are a lot of people. There's a growing 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:15.159 number of people who are spreading this religion of I 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:18.840 just feel better and this is more effective than anything 0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:21.080 I've tried. We've talked to so many people who say 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:25.320 they did everything, they tried, every dieting fad, you name it, 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:27.840 um and this is the only thing that worked for them. So, 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:30.200 if you look at it across this country and there 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:34.680 is an obesity epidemic, if people can find something that's 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:37.959 gonna let them in a healthy way, lose weight and 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:49.760 feel better. I think that resonates. And that's it for 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:52.960 this week's episode of Decryptic. Thanks for listening. What do 0:22:52.960 --> 0:22:56.360 you think of today's show? Email us at decrypted at 0:22:56.400 --> 0:22:59.479 bloomberg dot net or reach out to us on Twitter. 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:04.200 I'm at at ts Giles, and I'm at Selena Underscore 0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:08.120 Why Underscore Way, then I'm at Bradston. If you haven't already, 0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:10.840 please subscribe to our show wherever you get your podcast, 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:14.760 and leave us a rating and a review. This episode 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:19.119 was produced by Akido Piaget Kari, Liz Smith, Magnus Hendrickson 0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:23.120 and Tofur Foreheads. A special thanks to Daniel Gross from 0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:28.200 y Combinator, Jeffrey Woo of Human and Peter Atia. Francesco 0:23:28.320 --> 0:23:31.639 Leady is the head of Bloomberg Podcast. We'll see you 0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:32.160 next week.