1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:22,716 Speaker 1: Pushkin on Broken Record. We've interviewed some amazing singers, Alicia Keys, 2 00:00:22,956 --> 00:00:28,036 Speaker 1: Brandy Carlyle, Ozzy Osbourne. There's something really magical about a 3 00:00:28,116 --> 00:00:31,076 Speaker 1: great voice, but even the best of them need a 4 00:00:31,156 --> 00:00:36,036 Speaker 1: coach sometimes. That's where Eric Vetro comes in. He's worked 5 00:00:36,036 --> 00:00:41,116 Speaker 1: with Ariana Grande, John Legend, Pink Seawan Mendez. He taught 6 00:00:41,116 --> 00:00:43,836 Speaker 1: Emma Stone and Ryan Gosling to sing for Lala land 7 00:00:44,476 --> 00:00:48,116 Speaker 1: Renee Zellwegger for Judy. But could Eric help. Michael Lewis, 8 00:00:48,756 --> 00:00:51,876 Speaker 1: the author of books like The Blindside and Moneyball, has 9 00:00:51,956 --> 00:00:55,276 Speaker 1: long had a phobia about his voice. He knew he 10 00:00:55,316 --> 00:00:58,676 Speaker 1: needed a coach, but was afraid to get one until now. 11 00:00:59,796 --> 00:01:02,436 Speaker 1: Michael just wrapped the latest season of his podcast Against 12 00:01:02,476 --> 00:01:05,396 Speaker 1: the Rules, and it focused on coaches in all walks 13 00:01:05,436 --> 00:01:08,596 Speaker 1: of life, how good coaches can have huge effects, and 14 00:01:08,676 --> 00:01:11,236 Speaker 1: how people who get the best coaches aren't always the 15 00:01:11,236 --> 00:01:15,076 Speaker 1: people who need them most. Can Michael Lewis learn to sing, 16 00:01:15,716 --> 00:01:19,316 Speaker 1: like really sing? You're about to find out. We hope 17 00:01:19,356 --> 00:01:21,796 Speaker 1: you'll enjoy this episode and then listen to others from 18 00:01:21,836 --> 00:01:27,236 Speaker 1: Against the Rules Season two. Take a deep breath and 19 00:01:27,316 --> 00:01:34,076 Speaker 1: go so you're creating those little accents from down here. Yep, 20 00:01:35,836 --> 00:01:40,236 Speaker 1: that's it one more time. This is the last episode 21 00:01:40,236 --> 00:01:42,556 Speaker 1: of the show, and I think I've got my takeaways. 22 00:01:43,196 --> 00:01:46,796 Speaker 1: One takeaway is that good coaches can have huge effects, 23 00:01:46,836 --> 00:01:49,476 Speaker 1: and so it really matters who gets them. Another is 24 00:01:49,516 --> 00:01:52,076 Speaker 1: that the people who get the best coaches aren't always 25 00:01:52,076 --> 00:02:01,636 Speaker 1: the people who need them the most. The people who 26 00:02:01,676 --> 00:02:04,196 Speaker 1: most need a coach are people in a position of weakness. 27 00:02:04,916 --> 00:02:08,436 Speaker 1: Of course, coaches can make the strong stronger, but the 28 00:02:08,556 --> 00:02:11,916 Speaker 1: real magic happens when a coach attacks a seemingly hopeless 29 00:02:11,956 --> 00:02:28,356 Speaker 1: situation like this one. That's it, you do have? Oh. 30 00:02:28,396 --> 00:02:31,796 Speaker 1: My strategy has always been to hide my weaknesses, but 31 00:02:31,876 --> 00:02:46,196 Speaker 1: it's hard to hide this one my voice. I'm Michael Lewis, 32 00:02:46,356 --> 00:02:50,116 Speaker 1: and this is against the rules. This season has been 33 00:02:50,196 --> 00:02:54,116 Speaker 1: all about the rise of coaches. For this final episode, 34 00:02:54,876 --> 00:03:15,156 Speaker 1: I'm hiring myself a coach. It happens every time I 35 00:03:15,196 --> 00:03:18,276 Speaker 1: publish a book. I'll be three days into a speaking 36 00:03:18,316 --> 00:03:23,076 Speaker 1: tour and poof, I won't be able to speak. Last season, 37 00:03:23,116 --> 00:03:25,076 Speaker 1: the producers of this show tried to get me to 38 00:03:25,116 --> 00:03:28,556 Speaker 1: record two episodes in a day, only to find that 39 00:03:28,636 --> 00:03:31,156 Speaker 1: I was incapable of getting so many words out of 40 00:03:31,196 --> 00:03:34,596 Speaker 1: my mouth without my voice going. It's kind of funny 41 00:03:34,676 --> 00:03:36,956 Speaker 1: because my wife and children often say that I never 42 00:03:36,996 --> 00:03:39,116 Speaker 1: shut up, and I sort of wish that it could 43 00:03:39,156 --> 00:03:42,236 Speaker 1: be true. So take a deep, silent breath in and 44 00:03:42,396 --> 00:03:59,996 Speaker 1: hiss one. Two, he'd been strong, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, twelve. 45 00:04:00,276 --> 00:04:04,436 Speaker 1: All right for maybe a man in his nineties with epizema. 46 00:04:04,476 --> 00:04:07,676 Speaker 1: I would say that was pretty good, but I'm not 47 00:04:07,676 --> 00:04:10,596 Speaker 1: going to allow me with you. You must build that us. 48 00:04:11,956 --> 00:04:16,076 Speaker 1: So his name is Eric Vitro. We're in his house 49 00:04:16,116 --> 00:04:18,676 Speaker 1: in la If you were there, you could see that 50 00:04:18,836 --> 00:04:21,996 Speaker 1: Eric isn't just any old voice coach. His walls are 51 00:04:22,036 --> 00:04:25,396 Speaker 1: decorated with frame records that went platinum and thank you 52 00:04:25,476 --> 00:04:29,076 Speaker 1: notes from the singers who recorded them. I'm standing in 53 00:04:29,116 --> 00:04:32,356 Speaker 1: front of his piano. Behind it is a wall that's 54 00:04:32,396 --> 00:04:35,516 Speaker 1: more like a mural. The entire thing is filled with 55 00:04:35,516 --> 00:04:38,756 Speaker 1: snapshots of this coach, with the world's most famous people, 56 00:04:39,956 --> 00:04:42,556 Speaker 1: hundreds of them, lots of beautiful people taking on the 57 00:04:42,716 --> 00:04:46,436 Speaker 1: very spot where I'm standing. These are all suits. Yeah, 58 00:04:46,516 --> 00:04:49,516 Speaker 1: Cuba Gooding. Yeah do you know Cuba. I don't know him, 59 00:04:49,236 --> 00:04:52,596 Speaker 1: but I didn't know he sang anything. Yeah, he's done 60 00:04:52,676 --> 00:04:56,916 Speaker 1: Chicago Summertide or London and on Broadway one of the 61 00:04:57,676 --> 00:05:03,436 Speaker 1: nicest ariana Grande John Legend, Pink Sean Mendez, And they 62 00:05:03,476 --> 00:05:06,556 Speaker 1: look not just happy to be here, they look grateful, 63 00:05:07,236 --> 00:05:09,436 Speaker 1: especially the actors who came to him to learn how 64 00:05:09,476 --> 00:05:11,916 Speaker 1: to sing in a Broadway musical or a Hollywood movie. 65 00:05:12,796 --> 00:05:16,356 Speaker 1: Emma Stone and Ryan Gosling for La La land Renee 66 00:05:16,436 --> 00:05:21,156 Speaker 1: Zellweger for Judy, Natalie Portman for Everything. The Wall is 67 00:05:21,156 --> 00:05:24,756 Speaker 1: an Awards show speech waiting to happen, will Ferrell say, oh, 68 00:05:24,756 --> 00:05:27,796 Speaker 1: wouldn't he sing it? He dos? I worked on the 69 00:05:27,836 --> 00:05:30,276 Speaker 1: movie with the Stuck Brothers where he's saying at the end, 70 00:05:30,596 --> 00:05:33,796 Speaker 1: all right, all culminates with him singing time to say 71 00:05:33,956 --> 00:05:36,156 Speaker 1: by I can't believe I have the balls to call 72 00:05:36,196 --> 00:05:39,196 Speaker 1: you up and ask you to do this. I really can't. 73 00:05:39,636 --> 00:05:41,716 Speaker 1: On a whim, I'd call the agent who turns my 74 00:05:41,756 --> 00:05:44,676 Speaker 1: books into movies and asked him, who's the coach for 75 00:05:44,756 --> 00:05:48,236 Speaker 1: actors who need to fix their voices? Say actors who 76 00:05:48,276 --> 00:05:52,076 Speaker 1: don't normally sing but suddenly need to the answer came 77 00:05:52,116 --> 00:05:57,396 Speaker 1: back immediately, Eric Vetro, Hollywood agents all know just how 78 00:05:57,516 --> 00:06:08,236 Speaker 1: vulnerable their clients feel. I was petrified I didn't like 79 00:06:08,396 --> 00:06:10,796 Speaker 1: singing in front of people. I always loved singing, but 80 00:06:10,996 --> 00:06:14,156 Speaker 1: privately in my car, in the shower. My own husband 81 00:06:14,156 --> 00:06:17,196 Speaker 1: had never heard me sing. Even stars need help to shine. 82 00:06:17,796 --> 00:06:20,276 Speaker 1: The brightest have a sixth sense of where to find 83 00:06:20,316 --> 00:06:26,036 Speaker 1: that help, like this actress Emily Blunt. Rob Marshall had 84 00:06:26,076 --> 00:06:28,556 Speaker 1: asked me to audition for other musicals he was doing, 85 00:06:28,596 --> 00:06:30,356 Speaker 1: and I'd always said no because I was just frozen 86 00:06:30,396 --> 00:06:33,716 Speaker 1: with fear about the thought. He eventually called my agent. 87 00:06:33,756 --> 00:06:36,276 Speaker 1: He said, she's coming in. I know she can sing, 88 00:06:37,276 --> 00:06:40,196 Speaker 1: She's perfect for this role. I really want her. Tell 89 00:06:40,236 --> 00:06:42,036 Speaker 1: her to come and I have to hear everyone sing. 90 00:06:42,196 --> 00:06:45,036 Speaker 1: What was the song? It was Moments in the Woods. 91 00:06:45,076 --> 00:06:47,716 Speaker 1: It was her big song. This is ridiculous. What am 92 00:06:47,716 --> 00:06:51,316 Speaker 1: I doing here? I'm in the wrong story. Into the 93 00:06:51,356 --> 00:06:53,676 Speaker 1: Woods was the hit Broadway show that was then being 94 00:06:53,716 --> 00:06:57,316 Speaker 1: turned into a movie. Emily Blunt had no idea if 95 00:06:57,316 --> 00:06:59,676 Speaker 1: she could do the role, but she had a phone 96 00:06:59,716 --> 00:07:03,316 Speaker 1: number for Eric Vitro. Eric told her what he tells 97 00:07:03,356 --> 00:07:06,356 Speaker 1: everybody who calls. Come to my house for the first lesson, 98 00:07:06,796 --> 00:07:14,436 Speaker 1: and we'll see. I mean, Eric's house is always spotless, 99 00:07:14,516 --> 00:07:18,316 Speaker 1: it always smells heavenly and He's sort of this weird 100 00:07:19,036 --> 00:07:22,716 Speaker 1: juxtaposition of someone who's incredibly sort of refined and elegant, 101 00:07:22,756 --> 00:07:25,316 Speaker 1: and then he wears sort of like rocker jewelry, like 102 00:07:26,156 --> 00:07:29,196 Speaker 1: real thick chains, and sort of he's sort of an 103 00:07:29,236 --> 00:07:31,796 Speaker 1: interesting image when you look at him. He's usually got 104 00:07:31,796 --> 00:07:34,756 Speaker 1: a fabulous shirt on. And I remember thinking how cool 105 00:07:34,876 --> 00:07:38,756 Speaker 1: this guy was and how how effortless he was to 106 00:07:38,796 --> 00:07:40,996 Speaker 1: sort of be around. So I went into his kitchen, 107 00:07:41,276 --> 00:07:44,356 Speaker 1: walked me through the first like fifteen minutes. We went 108 00:07:44,516 --> 00:07:49,316 Speaker 1: into his music room and he I think we did 109 00:07:49,316 --> 00:07:52,716 Speaker 1: some really embarrassing scales or something, something that I was 110 00:07:52,756 --> 00:07:57,276 Speaker 1: just horrified by the idea of. And I felt embarrassed 111 00:07:57,316 --> 00:08:01,956 Speaker 1: at having to do all of these strange mouth exercises, 112 00:08:01,996 --> 00:08:05,956 Speaker 1: Like he makes you do things like NNI like stuff 113 00:08:05,956 --> 00:08:08,396 Speaker 1: like that that you're like, how horrifying if someone were 114 00:08:08,436 --> 00:08:10,476 Speaker 1: to see me do this in your life? Had you 115 00:08:10,556 --> 00:08:13,836 Speaker 1: had that experience before anybody ever taught you any kind 116 00:08:13,836 --> 00:08:17,316 Speaker 1: of nothing? Nothing? Because I didn't go to drama school, 117 00:08:17,436 --> 00:08:19,596 Speaker 1: I wasn't put through the ring or of doing sort 118 00:08:19,596 --> 00:08:23,276 Speaker 1: of trust games or physical sort of warm ups or anything. 119 00:08:23,316 --> 00:08:27,556 Speaker 1: I've never done it and or anything like that. Where 120 00:08:27,596 --> 00:08:30,156 Speaker 1: did the fear and the inhibition come from in you. 121 00:08:30,916 --> 00:08:35,796 Speaker 1: I don't know, is it English? Maybe? Maybe it's like 122 00:08:35,916 --> 00:08:38,316 Speaker 1: if you aren't the very best, that you're supposed to 123 00:08:38,316 --> 00:08:41,236 Speaker 1: just kind of hide. Even if you are the very best, 124 00:08:41,276 --> 00:08:45,036 Speaker 1: you're supposed to hide. You're not supposed to enthuse about 125 00:08:45,036 --> 00:08:48,116 Speaker 1: your own talents where I'm from, you know, or try 126 00:08:48,236 --> 00:08:52,436 Speaker 1: too hard. No, you can't, you can't. So even having 127 00:08:52,476 --> 00:08:55,316 Speaker 1: a voice coach, that's almost like trying too hard. Well, 128 00:08:55,356 --> 00:08:57,436 Speaker 1: that's interesting to me. Was there a little part of 129 00:08:57,476 --> 00:09:01,796 Speaker 1: you that resisted that in any way? No? I feel 130 00:09:01,796 --> 00:09:05,156 Speaker 1: like I desperately needed it. I mean I really really 131 00:09:05,196 --> 00:09:08,916 Speaker 1: needed it. Emily Blunt got Eric Vitro's coaching for the 132 00:09:08,916 --> 00:09:12,836 Speaker 1: next few years, and it had magical effects. I mean 133 00:09:13,236 --> 00:09:19,036 Speaker 1: she became Mary Poppins. Do you ever lie awake at 134 00:09:19,276 --> 00:09:27,236 Speaker 1: night just between the dock and the moring light? Such? 135 00:09:28,276 --> 00:09:31,116 Speaker 1: My problem is obviously not the same as Emily Blunt's. 136 00:09:32,196 --> 00:09:34,876 Speaker 1: I have no hidden talents, and no one suspects that 137 00:09:34,956 --> 00:09:38,436 Speaker 1: I do. I don't secretly hope to audition for Rob 138 00:09:38,476 --> 00:09:42,916 Speaker 1: Marshall's next musical. On the other hand, well, I'd better 139 00:09:42,916 --> 00:09:46,396 Speaker 1: come clean here. My problem with my voice isn't practical 140 00:09:46,476 --> 00:09:50,716 Speaker 1: it's spiritual. A long time ago, I basically decided that 141 00:09:50,716 --> 00:09:53,996 Speaker 1: the last thing I should ever do is sing. Standing 142 00:09:53,996 --> 00:09:56,156 Speaker 1: in Eric Vitro's house, I thought how nice it might 143 00:09:56,196 --> 00:09:58,596 Speaker 1: be to walk through the world without being unsettled by 144 00:09:58,596 --> 00:10:02,036 Speaker 1: the national anthem or terrified by karaoke night. As you're 145 00:10:02,036 --> 00:10:04,116 Speaker 1: gonna put the straw in the bottle, you're gonna hum 146 00:10:04,796 --> 00:10:07,316 Speaker 1: into the straw, which means air is going to be 147 00:10:07,316 --> 00:10:09,836 Speaker 1: coming through the straw and it's gonna blow bubbles right 148 00:10:09,876 --> 00:10:20,676 Speaker 1: into the water. Yes, now, go mm yeah, that's it. 149 00:10:20,756 --> 00:10:25,996 Speaker 1: You want to send that Eric through the straw. Yeah. 150 00:10:26,116 --> 00:10:28,636 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's funny you how you feel it deep in, 151 00:10:28,756 --> 00:10:31,156 Speaker 1: like around my belly body. Yeah, exactly, that's what I want. 152 00:10:32,996 --> 00:10:34,956 Speaker 1: The first lesson at Eric's house was just so that 153 00:10:35,076 --> 00:10:37,756 Speaker 1: he could see if there was any point in having 154 00:10:37,756 --> 00:10:41,196 Speaker 1: a second lesson over the phone. He said, I could 155 00:10:41,196 --> 00:10:44,476 Speaker 1: come over, but then it also might be a great 156 00:10:44,476 --> 00:10:47,516 Speaker 1: waste of time. Now, by the way, I am the 157 00:10:47,596 --> 00:10:51,396 Speaker 1: most positive, optimistic and supportive people you will ever meet. 158 00:10:51,476 --> 00:10:55,196 Speaker 1: I really am supported with my students. However, I really 159 00:10:55,236 --> 00:10:58,236 Speaker 1: think that whole phrase you can be anyone you want 160 00:10:58,276 --> 00:11:01,396 Speaker 1: and achieve anything you put your mind to. I think 161 00:11:01,396 --> 00:11:06,196 Speaker 1: it should be followed by within reason, because you know, 162 00:11:06,236 --> 00:11:07,916 Speaker 1: that would be like me saying, all right, I'm gonna 163 00:11:07,996 --> 00:11:11,036 Speaker 1: quit teaching and I'm going to become the greatest basketball 164 00:11:11,076 --> 00:11:15,436 Speaker 1: player ever. Well, at my age, with my hype and 165 00:11:15,596 --> 00:11:18,596 Speaker 1: my body type, I don't think that's gonna happpen. I 166 00:11:18,596 --> 00:11:21,836 Speaker 1: mean that would And if someone said you can do it, Eric, 167 00:11:22,396 --> 00:11:24,036 Speaker 1: you can put do anything you put your mind to, 168 00:11:24,596 --> 00:11:27,716 Speaker 1: they would be steering me down the wrong road, right, 169 00:11:27,796 --> 00:11:30,676 Speaker 1: It would be ridiculous. I was waiting to hear how 170 00:11:30,716 --> 00:11:34,476 Speaker 1: this story applied to me. Then he told me about 171 00:11:34,476 --> 00:11:38,756 Speaker 1: the famous actor, the actor who's picture never quite made 172 00:11:38,796 --> 00:11:41,596 Speaker 1: it onto the wall behind Eric's piano. He made a 173 00:11:41,596 --> 00:11:43,916 Speaker 1: movie and made a big splash when everybody wanted to 174 00:11:44,076 --> 00:11:46,676 Speaker 1: pire him. You know, everyone's like, ooh, this guy's hots. 175 00:11:46,716 --> 00:11:49,196 Speaker 1: That seemed good looking and a good actor. So he 176 00:11:49,236 --> 00:11:51,516 Speaker 1: was getting a million offers and one was a Broadway 177 00:11:51,596 --> 00:11:54,116 Speaker 1: musical and they said, here's the deal, of the producers 178 00:11:54,796 --> 00:11:58,316 Speaker 1: will pay for unlimited voice lessons. They just want you 179 00:11:58,356 --> 00:12:01,236 Speaker 1: to prepare him for this. They trust you. You know, 180 00:12:01,676 --> 00:12:03,916 Speaker 1: money's no object. How often do you really hear that? 181 00:12:03,956 --> 00:12:06,396 Speaker 1: You know, money's no obje So I was like, oh, 182 00:12:06,556 --> 00:12:09,756 Speaker 1: this sounds like a great gig. That was until he 183 00:12:09,836 --> 00:12:12,396 Speaker 1: got here. And when I met him, he was actually 184 00:12:12,556 --> 00:12:14,676 Speaker 1: very nice. So that was ice on the cape. Oh, 185 00:12:14,876 --> 00:12:18,196 Speaker 1: great guy and just seemed fun to talk to. Then 186 00:12:18,276 --> 00:12:24,556 Speaker 1: he started singing, Oh. I was like, ah, it was terrible, 187 00:12:25,116 --> 00:12:28,116 Speaker 1: as worse than what I just didn't. As he's telling 188 00:12:28,156 --> 00:12:31,516 Speaker 1: me this story, I'm wondering what else is he trying 189 00:12:31,556 --> 00:12:33,956 Speaker 1: to tell me? But here's the thing. You know, what 190 00:12:34,116 --> 00:12:36,356 Speaker 1: are the qualities that you really need to possess to, 191 00:12:36,916 --> 00:12:39,356 Speaker 1: you know, to be a successful artist and to have 192 00:12:39,396 --> 00:12:41,716 Speaker 1: a long career. One of them is some kind of 193 00:12:41,756 --> 00:12:44,876 Speaker 1: self awareness of who you are and what you should 194 00:12:44,876 --> 00:12:49,276 Speaker 1: be doing. I kept waiting for him to elaborate. He didn't, 195 00:12:49,836 --> 00:12:51,676 Speaker 1: But at the end of the session, Eric looked at 196 00:12:51,676 --> 00:12:53,396 Speaker 1: his schedule and asked when I wanted to do the 197 00:12:53,476 --> 00:12:56,596 Speaker 1: next lesson and whether it should be at his house 198 00:12:56,676 --> 00:13:01,116 Speaker 1: or over FaceTime. So I had myself a coach and 199 00:13:01,236 --> 00:13:09,636 Speaker 1: a new way to deal with what was a complicated problem. 200 00:13:20,756 --> 00:13:23,436 Speaker 1: You got trouble, my friend, right here, I say, trouble 201 00:13:23,516 --> 00:13:26,076 Speaker 1: right here in River City White. Sure, I'm a Billiard glare. Certainly. 202 00:13:27,236 --> 00:13:29,836 Speaker 1: The Music Man was a musical turned into a hit 203 00:13:29,956 --> 00:13:33,516 Speaker 1: movie in nineteen sixty two. There are actually plans right 204 00:13:33,556 --> 00:13:36,356 Speaker 1: now to revive it on Broadway, and you can see why. 205 00:13:37,116 --> 00:13:40,636 Speaker 1: It's both from another era and totally of the moment. 206 00:13:41,236 --> 00:13:44,236 Speaker 1: It tells the story of a con man played in 207 00:13:44,276 --> 00:13:47,916 Speaker 1: the movie by Robert Preston. He rolls into a small 208 00:13:47,956 --> 00:13:51,036 Speaker 1: town in Iowa and sells musical instruments to parents by 209 00:13:51,076 --> 00:13:54,476 Speaker 1: persuading them that their kids are prodigies. He promises to 210 00:13:54,476 --> 00:13:57,556 Speaker 1: teach them how to play, only he doesn't know a 211 00:13:57,756 --> 00:14:01,316 Speaker 1: thing about music. The only person in town he doesn't 212 00:14:01,356 --> 00:14:05,596 Speaker 1: fool is marrying the librarian played by Shirley Jones. She's 213 00:14:05,596 --> 00:14:08,516 Speaker 1: a prim and proper beauty who teaches piano and sees 214 00:14:08,516 --> 00:14:12,276 Speaker 1: through the con but the music man persuades her that 215 00:14:12,356 --> 00:14:15,076 Speaker 1: he has this magical system. Oh, I now have a 216 00:14:15,116 --> 00:14:18,036 Speaker 1: revolutionary new method called the think system. Well, you don't 217 00:14:18,076 --> 00:14:20,636 Speaker 1: bother with notes. The music man has found a new 218 00:14:20,676 --> 00:14:23,596 Speaker 1: and better way to coach, not how to sing or 219 00:14:23,636 --> 00:14:26,796 Speaker 1: how to play, how to get yourself into a state 220 00:14:26,796 --> 00:14:30,396 Speaker 1: of mind in which all you want to do is 221 00:14:30,436 --> 00:14:34,916 Speaker 1: sing and play. Oddly, this musical had exactly the opposite 222 00:14:34,916 --> 00:14:40,996 Speaker 1: effect on me. A single song, did it? I tell 223 00:14:41,036 --> 00:14:42,916 Speaker 1: you my phobia. I tell where it comes from it 224 00:14:43,356 --> 00:14:46,956 Speaker 1: and it's that the latter Rose song. Oh, I couldn't 225 00:14:46,996 --> 00:14:49,076 Speaker 1: figure out from your text what you were talking about. 226 00:14:49,156 --> 00:14:52,556 Speaker 1: So here's what happened. When I was in the third 227 00:14:52,636 --> 00:14:55,676 Speaker 1: and fourth and fifth grade, I had the leads in 228 00:14:55,676 --> 00:14:58,716 Speaker 1: the school players, and it was just I think it 229 00:14:58,756 --> 00:15:01,836 Speaker 1: was more willingness to get on stage and sing. But 230 00:15:01,956 --> 00:15:05,236 Speaker 1: I had them, and in fifth grade they cast me 231 00:15:05,396 --> 00:15:08,116 Speaker 1: in the leading and without telling me that I was 232 00:15:08,156 --> 00:15:12,436 Speaker 1: supposed to marry a little girl, and it was this 233 00:15:13,276 --> 00:15:20,396 Speaker 1: awful sequence of events. Childhood is a fun house mirror. 234 00:15:20,836 --> 00:15:24,636 Speaker 1: Everything in it gets distorted. I know a woman who 235 00:15:24,636 --> 00:15:27,636 Speaker 1: became a meteorologist because a storm dropped a tree onto 236 00:15:27,676 --> 00:15:30,716 Speaker 1: her house when she was ten years old. That tree 237 00:15:30,876 --> 00:15:32,756 Speaker 1: kicked a little pebble off the top of a hill 238 00:15:32,796 --> 00:15:36,316 Speaker 1: in her mind and started an avalanche. That kind of 239 00:15:36,316 --> 00:15:39,396 Speaker 1: thing happened inside my head, only my tree was a 240 00:15:39,476 --> 00:15:48,596 Speaker 1: song called Light a Rose, Light a Rose, I'm home again, Rose, Dude, 241 00:15:49,356 --> 00:15:55,156 Speaker 1: get the side. Our fifth grade class was going to 242 00:15:55,276 --> 00:15:58,836 Speaker 1: stage a version of the music Man. I thought I'd 243 00:15:58,876 --> 00:16:01,676 Speaker 1: been duped into singing the musical's one love song to 244 00:16:01,756 --> 00:16:06,876 Speaker 1: a girl in front of basically the entire world. But 245 00:16:06,996 --> 00:16:10,636 Speaker 1: then these extremely ancient teas told me who the girl was, 246 00:16:11,596 --> 00:16:17,156 Speaker 1: the new girl. She had a birth effect, no fingers 247 00:16:17,156 --> 00:16:19,556 Speaker 1: on her hands or toes on her feet. She was 248 00:16:19,596 --> 00:16:25,356 Speaker 1: also wildly bizarrely aggressive, grabbing it boys, pitching fits. I 249 00:16:25,476 --> 00:16:27,956 Speaker 1: knew I was meant to be kind to her, and 250 00:16:28,076 --> 00:16:31,196 Speaker 1: I tried. A ten year old boy with a better 251 00:16:31,276 --> 00:16:33,276 Speaker 1: character than mine would have just gone along with the 252 00:16:33,316 --> 00:16:37,356 Speaker 1: whole thing, but I didn't. I told them that I 253 00:16:37,356 --> 00:16:40,876 Speaker 1: wouldn't do the song, and instead of telling me that 254 00:16:40,996 --> 00:16:44,156 Speaker 1: I couldn't sing, they wound up telling that poor little 255 00:16:44,196 --> 00:16:48,436 Speaker 1: girl she couldn't have the role in the play. The 256 00:16:48,516 --> 00:16:52,436 Speaker 1: teachers had exposed a weakness in my character. Of course, 257 00:16:52,436 --> 00:16:54,076 Speaker 1: when I was ten, I wouldn't have put it that 258 00:16:54,116 --> 00:16:57,236 Speaker 1: way or anyway at all. I just suddenly had this 259 00:16:57,436 --> 00:17:02,316 Speaker 1: ugly new feeling a combination of anger and self loathing. 260 00:17:03,956 --> 00:17:07,076 Speaker 1: There and then I refused ever again to sing in 261 00:17:07,116 --> 00:17:10,996 Speaker 1: school plays. I told the music teacher I would never 262 00:17:11,116 --> 00:17:15,516 Speaker 1: again meet her after school. It's funny how phobias start. 263 00:17:17,316 --> 00:17:20,596 Speaker 1: It was a short skip from refusing to sing to 264 00:17:20,796 --> 00:17:26,236 Speaker 1: feeling that I shouldn't sing to almost being afraid to sing. 265 00:17:28,836 --> 00:17:31,436 Speaker 1: I know, it's a very strange story, and it's got 266 00:17:31,476 --> 00:17:34,596 Speaker 1: no happy ending to it. But I'm done telling that 267 00:17:34,636 --> 00:17:38,036 Speaker 1: story to my new coach. He has an idea. So 268 00:17:38,436 --> 00:17:42,356 Speaker 1: it's possible that my voice is so bad that you're 269 00:17:42,396 --> 00:17:44,436 Speaker 1: not gonna be able to do anything at all. Well, 270 00:17:44,996 --> 00:17:48,436 Speaker 1: so let's see how it goes. I think conquering that 271 00:17:48,636 --> 00:17:53,316 Speaker 1: song that gave you such anxiety would be fun, would 272 00:17:53,436 --> 00:17:57,076 Speaker 1: be buzzing conquering, you know. So what I want to 273 00:17:57,116 --> 00:18:00,316 Speaker 1: do is I want to have you sing the melody, 274 00:18:00,956 --> 00:18:03,236 Speaker 1: but instead of on the words, you're going to do 275 00:18:03,276 --> 00:18:21,156 Speaker 1: it on wah wah wah. And I have known a 276 00:18:21,156 --> 00:18:23,836 Speaker 1: lot of singing teachers, and some of them are just 277 00:18:24,036 --> 00:18:27,396 Speaker 1: playing nuts. I talked to a lot of Eric's students. 278 00:18:28,236 --> 00:18:31,756 Speaker 1: This is Bette Midler, another famous singer on Eric's wall. 279 00:18:31,956 --> 00:18:33,996 Speaker 1: And there are a lot of quacks too. So you 280 00:18:34,076 --> 00:18:36,196 Speaker 1: have to be very careful because you could be led 281 00:18:36,236 --> 00:18:40,116 Speaker 1: down the garden path by people who say that this 282 00:18:40,196 --> 00:18:42,516 Speaker 1: is the way to do it. When Bett found Eric, 283 00:18:42,556 --> 00:18:44,956 Speaker 1: she was in a funk. It was two thousand and eight. 284 00:18:45,276 --> 00:18:47,276 Speaker 1: She was about to open a new show in Vegas 285 00:18:47,396 --> 00:18:50,516 Speaker 1: at Caesar's Palace. The dry air was getting to her, 286 00:18:50,556 --> 00:18:54,236 Speaker 1: but it wasn't just the air. Something wasn't quite right. 287 00:18:55,276 --> 00:18:59,756 Speaker 1: She felt more than usually vulnerable. Her backup singers were 288 00:18:59,756 --> 00:19:03,916 Speaker 1: called the Harlettes. One of the harlettes told her about Eric, 289 00:19:04,596 --> 00:19:07,836 Speaker 1: so Bett called him up. He started coming to Vegas 290 00:19:07,956 --> 00:19:10,876 Speaker 1: to help me, and he would come once a week 291 00:19:10,956 --> 00:19:13,436 Speaker 1: or so and we would warm up, or he would 292 00:19:13,476 --> 00:19:15,116 Speaker 1: call me on the phone. We would warm up on 293 00:19:15,156 --> 00:19:16,756 Speaker 1: the phone, and he gave me the taps to warm 294 00:19:16,796 --> 00:19:19,516 Speaker 1: up with it. And I was religious about it. She 295 00:19:19,556 --> 00:19:23,276 Speaker 1: didn't just get through the show's run. She went two 296 00:19:23,396 --> 00:19:27,636 Speaker 1: years without missing a single performance. The staff at Caesar's 297 00:19:27,676 --> 00:19:30,596 Speaker 1: Palace told her that that had never happened, so they 298 00:19:30,636 --> 00:19:33,836 Speaker 1: invented an award to give her. It's still Bette Midler's 299 00:19:33,876 --> 00:19:37,956 Speaker 1: favorite award, and it's sort of changed her ideas about 300 00:19:37,996 --> 00:19:40,876 Speaker 1: the value of a coach. There are some songs when 301 00:19:40,916 --> 00:19:44,476 Speaker 1: I can hear him in my head, I can hear 302 00:19:44,556 --> 00:19:47,516 Speaker 1: his voice, I can hear certain things that he said 303 00:19:48,316 --> 00:19:53,356 Speaker 1: in my head, and if I can keep myself from 304 00:19:53,796 --> 00:19:57,956 Speaker 1: dismissing it, if I can believe it, I just thank 305 00:19:57,996 --> 00:20:00,556 Speaker 1: God for him every day. First of all, he's a 306 00:20:00,636 --> 00:20:03,516 Speaker 1: sunbeam in the world. And I do think that a 307 00:20:03,596 --> 00:20:07,596 Speaker 1: coach has to be you can't have someone who's going 308 00:20:07,636 --> 00:20:10,476 Speaker 1: to be abusive. They have they have to You have 309 00:20:10,516 --> 00:20:13,756 Speaker 1: to know they care about you. Yes, yes, you have 310 00:20:13,836 --> 00:20:18,636 Speaker 1: to trust them. And trust is absolutely imperative. If you 311 00:20:18,676 --> 00:20:22,476 Speaker 1: don't trust your coach, you're not gonna make it. Ready 312 00:20:22,516 --> 00:20:39,796 Speaker 1: to take a deep breath. Okay, Nope, that's okay. That's 313 00:20:39,836 --> 00:20:43,796 Speaker 1: why you're here to improve. So, yes, we're not listening. 314 00:20:44,476 --> 00:20:46,916 Speaker 1: We're not listening to A friend who was standing in 315 00:20:46,956 --> 00:20:50,196 Speaker 1: our guest copage and he heard me practicing. He I 316 00:20:50,316 --> 00:20:53,116 Speaker 1: came a piece that I thought that was the garbage truck. No, 317 00:20:53,316 --> 00:20:57,036 Speaker 1: he did not. It wasn't just the odd house guest. 318 00:20:57,596 --> 00:21:00,916 Speaker 1: It was the Amazon delivery lady, the guys on the 319 00:21:00,956 --> 00:21:05,796 Speaker 1: recycling truck, the neighbors. Anyone who came within about thirty 320 00:21:05,876 --> 00:21:10,156 Speaker 1: yards of me singing assumed a worried expression. One day, 321 00:21:10,196 --> 00:21:12,196 Speaker 1: I looked out my office window to see a deer 322 00:21:12,596 --> 00:21:16,956 Speaker 1: staring back at me with a look of concern. Then 323 00:21:16,996 --> 00:21:21,316 Speaker 1: there's my children. In happy families, children don't want their 324 00:21:21,316 --> 00:21:24,236 Speaker 1: parents to change. They really don't want to see them 325 00:21:24,276 --> 00:21:27,756 Speaker 1: trying to change. One day, my thirteen year old son, 326 00:21:27,836 --> 00:21:31,156 Speaker 1: Walker wandered in with his skateboard under his arm. He 327 00:21:31,236 --> 00:21:34,556 Speaker 1: grabbed a tape recorder and supplied a running commentary just 328 00:21:34,636 --> 00:21:37,436 Speaker 1: out of my earshot, and then I just walked down 329 00:21:37,516 --> 00:21:52,396 Speaker 1: unless my dad going, and he's just run. Okay, it's 330 00:21:52,436 --> 00:21:58,236 Speaker 1: going to be a nice Michael Jackson. Somebody wants to 331 00:21:58,236 --> 00:22:03,436 Speaker 1: deal kids. It's hard at the same time to be 332 00:22:03,516 --> 00:22:06,556 Speaker 1: both a comic character in the minds of everyone around 333 00:22:06,596 --> 00:22:11,196 Speaker 1: you and also a slayer of childhood demons. But something 334 00:22:11,236 --> 00:22:13,476 Speaker 1: about this coach made me want to keep on going, 335 00:22:13,916 --> 00:22:16,436 Speaker 1: just to see where he might lead. So you figure 336 00:22:16,436 --> 00:22:19,316 Speaker 1: out what they have, you expanded the best best you 337 00:22:18,916 --> 00:22:21,916 Speaker 1: can try to work and then you were it's all 338 00:22:21,916 --> 00:22:25,316 Speaker 1: about funny out who you are. Isn't that life in general? 339 00:22:25,436 --> 00:22:28,276 Speaker 1: But it's it's really true. But it's and I think 340 00:22:28,276 --> 00:22:31,436 Speaker 1: it's the key to life, you know, and finding you know, 341 00:22:31,476 --> 00:22:33,916 Speaker 1: that combination of what you do best and what you 342 00:22:33,996 --> 00:22:36,476 Speaker 1: love the most, right, what you enjoy the most, because 343 00:22:36,516 --> 00:22:38,596 Speaker 1: that's what you're going to want to practice. If you're 344 00:22:38,636 --> 00:22:41,076 Speaker 1: doing a style of music that you don't like, you're 345 00:22:41,116 --> 00:22:43,116 Speaker 1: not going to want to practice it right, So it 346 00:22:43,276 --> 00:22:46,276 Speaker 1: becomes meaningless, like like they'll tell me, oh so and 347 00:22:46,316 --> 00:22:48,396 Speaker 1: so tried to get me to blank blink, like I go, 348 00:22:48,676 --> 00:22:51,076 Speaker 1: that's not what you want to do. Then you're you're 349 00:22:51,116 --> 00:22:54,076 Speaker 1: really trying to fit up a square pain around the whole. Right, 350 00:22:54,516 --> 00:22:57,396 Speaker 1: you've got to have some kind of love or passion 351 00:22:57,516 --> 00:23:02,236 Speaker 1: for it, right has This entire season has been mainly 352 00:23:02,236 --> 00:23:05,836 Speaker 1: about the effects that coaches have. We haven't talked much 353 00:23:05,836 --> 00:23:08,916 Speaker 1: about why they do what they do. There's lots of 354 00:23:09,356 --> 00:23:12,636 Speaker 1: someone might decide their passion is to sing, but a 355 00:23:12,676 --> 00:23:15,716 Speaker 1: passion for helping others learn to sing. It's hard to 356 00:23:15,756 --> 00:23:21,516 Speaker 1: explain sometimes, but you know, you feel like you are 357 00:23:21,596 --> 00:23:25,396 Speaker 1: getting as much as you are giving, like to see 358 00:23:25,436 --> 00:23:28,236 Speaker 1: the improvement, to see people get excited. All of that. 359 00:23:28,836 --> 00:23:31,556 Speaker 1: It comes back at you like a rush, like a 360 00:23:33,556 --> 00:23:36,036 Speaker 1: rush of adrenaline. Really is what it is. Or to 361 00:23:36,076 --> 00:23:38,956 Speaker 1: see someone complimented, or if you read a good review. 362 00:23:39,676 --> 00:23:41,996 Speaker 1: I would never say, oh, I take credit for that. 363 00:23:42,196 --> 00:23:44,796 Speaker 1: I don't feel that, but I know I had something 364 00:23:44,836 --> 00:23:46,356 Speaker 1: to do with it. I was a part of it, 365 00:23:46,596 --> 00:23:49,236 Speaker 1: and that just and it makes me so happy for 366 00:23:49,276 --> 00:23:53,556 Speaker 1: that person. One day I asked Eric how he became 367 00:23:53,596 --> 00:23:56,876 Speaker 1: a coach with a completely straight face. He said that 368 00:23:56,916 --> 00:24:00,556 Speaker 1: it had all started in the fifth grade. This show 369 00:24:00,596 --> 00:24:02,516 Speaker 1: can't seem to move on from the fifth grade, but 370 00:24:02,916 --> 00:24:05,276 Speaker 1: such as life. By the time he got to the 371 00:24:05,316 --> 00:24:08,916 Speaker 1: fifth grade, Eric loved music but didn't get much encouragement 372 00:24:09,276 --> 00:24:13,556 Speaker 1: his parents. Then his class stage a musical, just as 373 00:24:13,596 --> 00:24:17,156 Speaker 1: mine had. The most popular boy in aris class wanted 374 00:24:17,236 --> 00:24:20,036 Speaker 1: to play the lead, but he didn't know how to sing. 375 00:24:23,596 --> 00:24:25,916 Speaker 1: He knew because I was playing the piano in the morning, 376 00:24:26,996 --> 00:24:29,276 Speaker 1: you know, for the kids to sing the star Spangled Banner, 377 00:24:29,316 --> 00:24:33,876 Speaker 1: America the Beautiful, And he said, I want to audition. 378 00:24:33,996 --> 00:24:36,156 Speaker 1: And meanwhile, by the way, we're talking at like a 379 00:24:36,236 --> 00:24:39,236 Speaker 1: ten minute skit. It wasn't a big thing. But to us, 380 00:24:39,396 --> 00:24:42,236 Speaker 1: you know, when you're that age and you're in a school, 381 00:24:42,276 --> 00:24:44,996 Speaker 1: you're surrounded by people who really matter to you, all 382 00:24:44,996 --> 00:24:48,556 Speaker 1: those classmates, and there's so many hierarchies and levels and 383 00:24:48,676 --> 00:24:52,716 Speaker 1: all of that going on. So he was popular, he 384 00:24:52,756 --> 00:24:55,596 Speaker 1: was athletic, he was, you know, all the positive things 385 00:24:55,596 --> 00:24:58,716 Speaker 1: you could be for boy in the fifth grade, and 386 00:24:58,996 --> 00:25:02,276 Speaker 1: or I guess in any grade really, And so he said, 387 00:25:02,396 --> 00:25:05,236 Speaker 1: can you teach me this song? And I said sure. 388 00:25:05,476 --> 00:25:10,276 Speaker 1: So we walked home. My house was probably twenty five 389 00:25:10,276 --> 00:25:13,276 Speaker 1: minutes from the school. He walked home with me, and 390 00:25:13,716 --> 00:25:15,716 Speaker 1: I sat at the piano and I taught him the 391 00:25:15,716 --> 00:25:18,636 Speaker 1: song and we went over and over and over it. 392 00:25:19,636 --> 00:25:24,276 Speaker 1: That bonded us forever. You know what. We didn't sit 393 00:25:24,276 --> 00:25:27,516 Speaker 1: at the same table and lunch whatever, but whenever I 394 00:25:27,516 --> 00:25:30,836 Speaker 1: would see him from that time on until graduating high school, 395 00:25:31,156 --> 00:25:33,396 Speaker 1: we were walking down the hall, He'd give me that nod, 396 00:25:33,476 --> 00:25:35,596 Speaker 1: I'd give him that nod. Like we had that bond. 397 00:25:35,996 --> 00:25:38,676 Speaker 1: It was amazing. It was a really special thing we 398 00:25:38,756 --> 00:25:41,876 Speaker 1: had between us. And so Eric just started to help 399 00:25:41,916 --> 00:25:44,716 Speaker 1: other kids who needed to sing. He didn't really think 400 00:25:44,756 --> 00:25:47,236 Speaker 1: of it as a job until one day when he 401 00:25:47,276 --> 00:25:51,236 Speaker 1: was in college, a classmate auditioned for a Broadway show. 402 00:25:52,116 --> 00:25:55,036 Speaker 1: She offered to pay Eric to help her. After that, 403 00:25:55,276 --> 00:25:59,116 Speaker 1: he built an entire career on word of mouth. People 404 00:25:59,156 --> 00:26:02,236 Speaker 1: just heard about this guy's rare coaching gift and called 405 00:26:02,276 --> 00:26:05,036 Speaker 1: him up. He never really had to market himself or 406 00:26:05,076 --> 00:26:08,436 Speaker 1: push himself on others. They found him. What did it 407 00:26:08,436 --> 00:26:20,716 Speaker 1: feel like? You're your incredible space about your throat? All 408 00:26:20,756 --> 00:26:25,236 Speaker 1: these strange sounds. I spend an hour every day making them. 409 00:26:25,276 --> 00:26:27,396 Speaker 1: I ask him why I'm doing them, and he sort 410 00:26:27,436 --> 00:26:31,196 Speaker 1: of explains, but sort of doesn't, or rather, all of 411 00:26:31,236 --> 00:26:35,476 Speaker 1: his explanations boiled down to a single persuasive sentence. Just 412 00:26:35,676 --> 00:26:37,796 Speaker 1: follow my lead the way everyone else is done, and 413 00:26:37,836 --> 00:26:42,956 Speaker 1: I'll get you there. Practice really truly, Bet Middler again, 414 00:26:43,876 --> 00:26:47,076 Speaker 1: my fellow singer, This is ther only piece of advice 415 00:26:47,116 --> 00:26:49,156 Speaker 1: to me. The more you do it, the better you're 416 00:26:49,156 --> 00:26:52,036 Speaker 1: going to get. There's no question, There is absolutely no 417 00:26:52,196 --> 00:26:56,116 Speaker 1: question you will improve. The more you do it, the 418 00:26:56,156 --> 00:26:59,556 Speaker 1: better you get, and you find the secrets you find. Well, 419 00:27:00,276 --> 00:27:01,756 Speaker 1: he told me to do it that way. I can't 420 00:27:01,796 --> 00:27:03,076 Speaker 1: quite do it that way, but I can do it 421 00:27:03,436 --> 00:27:05,036 Speaker 1: this way, and it's a pretty good sound, so I 422 00:27:05,076 --> 00:27:07,516 Speaker 1: like it. My question to you is how do you sound? 423 00:27:07,836 --> 00:27:14,516 Speaker 1: How do you like yourself singing? That was a good question, 424 00:27:16,356 --> 00:27:29,636 Speaker 1: and I was still avoiding the answer. Let's start with 425 00:27:29,636 --> 00:27:31,876 Speaker 1: a tongue, making sure to connect to your breathing muscles. 426 00:27:31,916 --> 00:27:34,116 Speaker 1: You're gonna take deep ruts in and you're gonna sing. 427 00:27:38,116 --> 00:27:41,636 Speaker 1: Try that. I try it. I try everything very good. 428 00:27:41,676 --> 00:27:43,556 Speaker 1: Now try it with the lip bubbly and see if 429 00:27:43,556 --> 00:27:50,076 Speaker 1: you can do it. Yeah, don't worry about it. Don't 430 00:27:50,076 --> 00:27:52,316 Speaker 1: worry about it, I promise. But I kept thinking of 431 00:27:52,436 --> 00:27:57,036 Speaker 1: Bette Midler's question, how do I like myself singing? The 432 00:27:57,076 --> 00:28:00,636 Speaker 1: truth is I feel totally disconnected from my own voice. 433 00:28:01,436 --> 00:28:03,356 Speaker 1: I sing the way people talk when they're trying to 434 00:28:03,356 --> 00:28:06,036 Speaker 1: get a foreigner to understand them. When it isn't working, 435 00:28:06,036 --> 00:28:08,876 Speaker 1: I just do it again louder. I also sing with 436 00:28:08,956 --> 00:28:12,836 Speaker 1: the feeling that something's about to go drastically wrong, like 437 00:28:12,876 --> 00:28:15,436 Speaker 1: I'm a five foot point guard driving for a layup 438 00:28:15,476 --> 00:28:17,716 Speaker 1: with a pair of seven footers right behind me. So 439 00:28:17,756 --> 00:28:26,036 Speaker 1: you're gonna go memo, memo, memo, memo, memo, memo, Mimo, memo, Mimo, memo, Mimo, memo, memo, mimo. 440 00:28:26,076 --> 00:28:29,996 Speaker 1: Now rolling your head memo mema. The music Man is 441 00:28:29,996 --> 00:28:33,036 Speaker 1: about a con man. He knows he's a fraud, but 442 00:28:33,116 --> 00:28:38,636 Speaker 1: he's happy in the role. I'm less so wow. Even 443 00:28:38,636 --> 00:28:40,916 Speaker 1: though Eric agrees to take me on as a student, 444 00:28:41,196 --> 00:28:43,676 Speaker 1: I start with one foot out the door, and I 445 00:28:43,716 --> 00:28:52,956 Speaker 1: think he kind of knows it. Okay. Good. Looking back 446 00:28:52,956 --> 00:28:55,276 Speaker 1: on all this, I see our relationship had a bunch 447 00:28:55,276 --> 00:29:00,556 Speaker 1: of stages. I can count five. You've already heard Stage one. 448 00:29:01,316 --> 00:29:03,596 Speaker 1: He was just feeling each other out to decide if 449 00:29:03,596 --> 00:29:07,756 Speaker 1: there was any point of spending time together. Stage two 450 00:29:08,276 --> 00:29:12,796 Speaker 1: was Eric dually taking control. But I only noticed this 451 00:29:12,916 --> 00:29:16,316 Speaker 1: happening after I went back over the recordings of all 452 00:29:16,356 --> 00:29:20,396 Speaker 1: our sessions. It sounded better. Yeah, it really really noticeably 453 00:29:20,436 --> 00:29:23,316 Speaker 1: sounded better. Yeah, I mean from a low baseline, but 454 00:29:23,356 --> 00:29:26,516 Speaker 1: I noticed the difference. No, that's great. I didn't give 455 00:29:26,516 --> 00:29:29,756 Speaker 1: you the acid reflux diet. Hot to look at you did? 456 00:29:30,236 --> 00:29:33,956 Speaker 1: He had given me the acid reflux diet the first session. 457 00:29:34,756 --> 00:29:38,036 Speaker 1: This long list of stuff I was now encouraged to consume, 458 00:29:38,636 --> 00:29:41,556 Speaker 1: plus a longer list of things I shouldn't touch. No 459 00:29:41,716 --> 00:29:46,916 Speaker 1: spicy foods, no coffee, no alcohol. It seemed excessive. I mean, 460 00:29:47,276 --> 00:29:51,276 Speaker 1: no carbonated beverages. You did? Then? Why are you drinking 461 00:29:51,396 --> 00:29:54,196 Speaker 1: carbonated water in front of me? Oh my god? You 462 00:29:54,356 --> 00:29:56,796 Speaker 1: cough it so because you know it's all I have. 463 00:29:56,996 --> 00:29:59,756 Speaker 1: It's I'm drinking up the remains. I haven't bought any 464 00:29:59,796 --> 00:30:02,876 Speaker 1: new ones, but it was what Okay, your family can't 465 00:30:02,956 --> 00:30:10,276 Speaker 1: drink the perrier? All right? Busted? I'm sorry. It won't 466 00:30:10,316 --> 00:30:12,876 Speaker 1: happen again. Could always take a bath in it. Yeah, 467 00:30:12,876 --> 00:30:14,796 Speaker 1: that's what I'll do. I'll take a bath in it, right, 468 00:30:14,916 --> 00:30:16,676 Speaker 1: I'll send it to you. Do you have a dog, 469 00:30:16,716 --> 00:30:20,796 Speaker 1: You could wash the dog with it. I found that 470 00:30:20,876 --> 00:30:23,916 Speaker 1: once I got my coach talking, I could encourage him 471 00:30:23,916 --> 00:30:27,156 Speaker 1: to keep going. Please do tell me how to wash 472 00:30:27,196 --> 00:30:29,956 Speaker 1: a dog in sparkling order. Yes, I do very much 473 00:30:29,996 --> 00:30:32,516 Speaker 1: want to hear what Joan Rivers once said about her dog. 474 00:30:33,156 --> 00:30:35,836 Speaker 1: So long as he was talking, I didn't have to sing. 475 00:30:36,716 --> 00:30:40,556 Speaker 1: I was creating a kind of alibi that crime against music. 476 00:30:41,236 --> 00:30:43,716 Speaker 1: No way I could have committed it. I wasn't even 477 00:30:43,756 --> 00:30:47,596 Speaker 1: present at the scene. Feel like you're sighing. Make sure 478 00:30:47,636 --> 00:30:50,476 Speaker 1: you support by using your breathing muscles on that first 479 00:30:50,476 --> 00:30:53,676 Speaker 1: note and put a slight cry so to be more 480 00:30:53,676 --> 00:31:01,156 Speaker 1: of a mey memai may good. Now, I guarantee you, 481 00:31:01,156 --> 00:31:03,316 Speaker 1: if you start doing it every day, that will get 482 00:31:03,356 --> 00:31:07,716 Speaker 1: better and better. How could it get worse? That's not true? 483 00:31:09,116 --> 00:31:12,076 Speaker 1: All right now, I want to do one keeping a 484 00:31:12,196 --> 00:31:15,276 Speaker 1: nice and forward, keeping your mouth loose and relaxed. Say 485 00:31:15,556 --> 00:31:21,316 Speaker 1: yum yum, yum, yum yum yum. Actually, before we go 486 00:31:21,356 --> 00:31:24,916 Speaker 1: out further. I know you're being funny, but I know 487 00:31:24,956 --> 00:31:27,636 Speaker 1: there's always a little truth in every little bit of humor. 488 00:31:27,996 --> 00:31:30,916 Speaker 1: What I want you to do is stop thinking of 489 00:31:30,956 --> 00:31:34,476 Speaker 1: it as not good, because as long as you do that, 490 00:31:34,796 --> 00:31:36,996 Speaker 1: you'll kind of keep it there, you know what I mean, 491 00:31:37,396 --> 00:31:39,356 Speaker 1: You'll always have a little bit of a sense. While 492 00:31:39,396 --> 00:31:41,516 Speaker 1: I'm not really a singer, I'm not really good. I 493 00:31:41,596 --> 00:31:45,116 Speaker 1: want you to start just thinking to yourself as a singer. 494 00:31:45,156 --> 00:31:49,316 Speaker 1: You're putting in the time, the effort you're practicing. Why 495 00:31:49,356 --> 00:31:53,196 Speaker 1: wouldn't you get better? You know right? Anybody will get 496 00:31:53,236 --> 00:31:56,116 Speaker 1: better is something they put effort in, time and energy, 497 00:31:56,116 --> 00:31:58,036 Speaker 1: And so I want you to just start thinking to 498 00:31:58,156 --> 00:32:03,116 Speaker 1: yourself like a singer. He didn't miss much. He was 499 00:32:03,156 --> 00:32:05,916 Speaker 1: onto me. It's a defense mechanism, I know, but I 500 00:32:05,956 --> 00:32:08,756 Speaker 1: want you to drop it, all right. I want to 501 00:32:08,796 --> 00:32:11,916 Speaker 1: break through that defense because I really do think when 502 00:32:11,996 --> 00:32:15,196 Speaker 1: someone feels a little bit better and they tell themselves, 503 00:32:15,516 --> 00:32:20,076 Speaker 1: you know, self affirming thoughts, it really does make a difference. 504 00:32:20,516 --> 00:32:22,956 Speaker 1: All right, I won't do it anymore. Yeah, I want 505 00:32:22,956 --> 00:32:28,116 Speaker 1: you to really just think, yeah, this is better. His 506 00:32:28,316 --> 00:32:31,956 Speaker 1: will was just stronger than mine. At some point I 507 00:32:32,036 --> 00:32:35,516 Speaker 1: gave up and accepted that he was in charge. And 508 00:32:35,636 --> 00:32:39,676 Speaker 1: at that point I entered stage three of the coaching relationship. 509 00:32:40,516 --> 00:32:46,476 Speaker 1: Buy in actual, honest, buy in very good. And I 510 00:32:46,556 --> 00:32:53,276 Speaker 1: heard by broad on that first note, whoa do that again? Wow? 511 00:32:52,396 --> 00:32:56,676 Speaker 1: Wa wa wa wa wa? I aim high On that 512 00:32:56,716 --> 00:32:58,876 Speaker 1: last note, though, don't let it fall back from your throat. 513 00:32:59,716 --> 00:33:02,756 Speaker 1: I mean, who knows if I'm actually getting better, I 514 00:33:02,836 --> 00:33:05,996 Speaker 1: can't tell, but he's giving me a feeling of movement. 515 00:33:07,356 --> 00:33:13,276 Speaker 1: May me may me, May May May may may. And 516 00:33:13,436 --> 00:33:15,956 Speaker 1: so far that's the briant, the best you've sounded. Does 517 00:33:15,956 --> 00:33:18,076 Speaker 1: it feel good? It feels really good? Yeah, and I 518 00:33:18,116 --> 00:33:21,116 Speaker 1: want you to really embrace it. Feel what it feels like. 519 00:33:21,316 --> 00:33:28,316 Speaker 1: Listen to it because it sounds really good. At some 520 00:33:28,436 --> 00:33:31,516 Speaker 1: point into all of this, like after maybe three months 521 00:33:31,516 --> 00:33:35,076 Speaker 1: of weekly lessons and almost daily practice, it occurred to 522 00:33:35,116 --> 00:33:38,676 Speaker 1: me that one anxiety had been replaced by another. I 523 00:33:38,836 --> 00:33:42,596 Speaker 1: used to be anxious mostly about singing. Now I'm anxious 524 00:33:42,716 --> 00:33:46,556 Speaker 1: mostly about letting him down. I think we'll call this 525 00:33:46,636 --> 00:33:51,876 Speaker 1: stage four. So have you ever taken a ballet class? No? 526 00:33:52,076 --> 00:33:55,836 Speaker 1: I haven't, but I've been close to one. Okay, So 527 00:33:56,836 --> 00:34:00,876 Speaker 1: in ballet class quite often, you know, they talk about 528 00:34:00,916 --> 00:34:06,916 Speaker 1: getting in touch with and what's the word of connecting 529 00:34:06,956 --> 00:34:11,796 Speaker 1: to your center? Yep, lean your abdomino muscles in Yep'm 530 00:34:11,876 --> 00:34:16,916 Speaker 1: kind of tight and squeezing your butt cheeks together yepkay, yep. 531 00:34:17,036 --> 00:34:19,596 Speaker 1: Clenking in the back, holding it ye, So that's why 532 00:34:19,636 --> 00:34:24,156 Speaker 1: they stand so crazy. Yep, yep, Okay, that's clenching in 533 00:34:24,196 --> 00:34:27,556 Speaker 1: the bus and pulling your abdomino muscles can help you 534 00:34:27,596 --> 00:34:30,796 Speaker 1: with support. Now, I prevertical in front back to support 535 00:34:30,836 --> 00:34:32,676 Speaker 1: because I don't want to be known as the butt teacher. 536 00:34:32,756 --> 00:34:35,636 Speaker 1: And I'm not recording this. He wasn't recording it, but 537 00:34:35,796 --> 00:34:38,716 Speaker 1: I was, Oh no, no no. So I can tell 538 00:34:38,716 --> 00:34:40,476 Speaker 1: you if I if I was able to sing with 539 00:34:40,516 --> 00:34:45,356 Speaker 1: my ass muscles, i'd be on Broadway. All right, there's 540 00:34:45,636 --> 00:34:47,716 Speaker 1: going to be a Broadway again. Yeah, well that's a 541 00:34:47,996 --> 00:34:51,116 Speaker 1: that's a good point. Yeah. Anyway, Okay, getting back to 542 00:34:51,156 --> 00:34:53,676 Speaker 1: your bus. So I want you to put one end 543 00:34:53,676 --> 00:34:56,076 Speaker 1: on your abdominal muscles and you're gonna go to a 544 00:34:56,196 --> 00:34:59,916 Speaker 1: normal hiss, pulling your abdomino muscles in, and then you're 545 00:34:59,916 --> 00:35:03,596 Speaker 1: going to add punch in your butt cheeks together. Okay, 546 00:35:03,676 --> 00:35:08,076 Speaker 1: so I'll so. But it just hissed and clenched my 547 00:35:08,076 --> 00:35:10,156 Speaker 1: butt cheeks while I'm doing. You're going to do a 548 00:35:10,236 --> 00:35:21,796 Speaker 1: normal plenty or domino. You're going to add okay, gotcha? Wow, 549 00:35:23,236 --> 00:35:27,596 Speaker 1: Oh my god, it was like a howitzer. That's what 550 00:35:27,676 --> 00:35:29,556 Speaker 1: you're gonna do that hit behind us. You're going to 551 00:35:29,636 --> 00:35:33,156 Speaker 1: free your butt seats together and pulling your domino gonna 552 00:35:33,156 --> 00:35:35,836 Speaker 1: be like your neck. That was like a nuke. It 553 00:35:35,916 --> 00:35:40,236 Speaker 1: was also extremely weird, but it was working, and it 554 00:35:40,316 --> 00:35:44,516 Speaker 1: got us eventually to stage five. I still didn't really 555 00:35:44,556 --> 00:35:47,156 Speaker 1: like the way I sounded, but I could see how 556 00:35:47,236 --> 00:35:50,796 Speaker 1: one day I might like the way I sounded. I 557 00:35:50,876 --> 00:35:53,996 Speaker 1: was starting to have this entirely new feeling because of 558 00:35:54,036 --> 00:35:57,796 Speaker 1: this coach, and I sort of confessed it directly to 559 00:35:57,876 --> 00:36:00,396 Speaker 1: Bette Midler. I don't know if you feel this way, 560 00:36:00,436 --> 00:36:03,476 Speaker 1: but I found that once you start singing, it's really 561 00:36:03,476 --> 00:36:07,956 Speaker 1: hard to stop. That's great, you know, do you know what? 562 00:36:08,316 --> 00:36:09,876 Speaker 1: You know? You start saying you kind of don't want 563 00:36:09,876 --> 00:36:13,836 Speaker 1: to stop. So I find myself wandering the streets after 564 00:36:13,876 --> 00:36:15,716 Speaker 1: I've been doing a lesson singing, and then I realize 565 00:36:15,756 --> 00:36:17,796 Speaker 1: people are staring at me. Oh really, Oh that's a 566 00:36:17,836 --> 00:36:23,956 Speaker 1: sweet story. That's fantastic. I'm going to try that. Now. 567 00:36:23,596 --> 00:36:27,756 Speaker 1: How has your progress been with you mentally thinking of 568 00:36:27,836 --> 00:36:32,276 Speaker 1: yourself as a singer? Not bad? Good? So that interference 569 00:36:32,396 --> 00:36:34,876 Speaker 1: is gone, and I'm trying to talk myself into this 570 00:36:35,276 --> 00:36:38,996 Speaker 1: great great because I think that, you know, then it 571 00:36:39,036 --> 00:36:42,196 Speaker 1: becomes I don't want to say, an experiment, maybe an 572 00:36:42,196 --> 00:36:46,716 Speaker 1: exercise in not just singing in general, but how powerful 573 00:36:46,756 --> 00:36:49,916 Speaker 1: the mind can be to creating what it is we 574 00:36:49,996 --> 00:36:57,036 Speaker 1: want to create in our life. I agree. Okay, so 575 00:36:57,156 --> 00:36:58,876 Speaker 1: but one hand on your chest, one hand on your 576 00:36:58,876 --> 00:37:01,716 Speaker 1: abdominal muscles. Take a deep, low breath and a long, 577 00:37:01,756 --> 00:37:06,116 Speaker 1: steady It's not often that someone persuades you that you 578 00:37:06,116 --> 00:37:10,236 Speaker 1: can go to a place you've never been. It's intoxicating 579 00:37:11,236 --> 00:37:14,516 Speaker 1: even for people who've been almost everywhere. And actually, the 580 00:37:14,556 --> 00:37:18,956 Speaker 1: most free thing about Eric is that he encourages you 581 00:37:19,156 --> 00:37:22,876 Speaker 1: to not make it sound beautiful and perfect, just makes 582 00:37:22,996 --> 00:37:26,356 Speaker 1: sense of it, like Emily Blunt makes sense of the song. 583 00:37:26,476 --> 00:37:30,796 Speaker 1: Let me hear the story, Tell me a story. This 584 00:37:30,836 --> 00:37:34,276 Speaker 1: is what's so elusive about coaching. How a gifted coach 585 00:37:34,356 --> 00:37:36,556 Speaker 1: can get you to shift the focus of your attention 586 00:37:37,236 --> 00:37:40,716 Speaker 1: so you're no longer singing a song. You're sort of 587 00:37:40,756 --> 00:37:44,516 Speaker 1: exploring who you are or might be. It hit Bette 588 00:37:44,516 --> 00:37:46,836 Speaker 1: Midler right away. You know, I have to tell you this, 589 00:37:47,076 --> 00:37:50,276 Speaker 1: This is a good story. When I first care to Eric, 590 00:37:50,636 --> 00:37:53,276 Speaker 1: I would come to Eric and you don't know me, Michael, 591 00:37:53,356 --> 00:37:56,236 Speaker 1: but I am. I'm a very sad person. I mean, 592 00:37:56,316 --> 00:38:00,876 Speaker 1: I can be hilarious, but like many comics, I am 593 00:38:01,556 --> 00:38:06,796 Speaker 1: I am like a tragic soul, and I can be 594 00:38:06,916 --> 00:38:09,556 Speaker 1: very hard on myself and very hard on people around me. 595 00:38:10,236 --> 00:38:13,276 Speaker 1: I'm sorry to admit that people I'm telling I'm letting 596 00:38:13,316 --> 00:38:17,156 Speaker 1: you in. This coach knows stuff. Stuff you never know 597 00:38:17,236 --> 00:38:20,916 Speaker 1: that he knows. He knows what you might be capable of. 598 00:38:21,036 --> 00:38:24,316 Speaker 1: If you allow him to help, you might already be 599 00:38:24,396 --> 00:38:27,756 Speaker 1: world famous and headlining a Vegas show. You also, at 600 00:38:27,756 --> 00:38:30,876 Speaker 1: the same time might be hating yourself and making life 601 00:38:30,916 --> 00:38:48,356 Speaker 1: miserable for your coach. And he came to my opening night, 602 00:38:48,716 --> 00:38:50,916 Speaker 1: and you know what he told me, Like years later, 603 00:38:51,476 --> 00:39:08,236 Speaker 1: he said to me, when that curtain went up and 604 00:39:08,316 --> 00:39:14,596 Speaker 1: you came up, I didn't recogne you are. You were 605 00:39:14,676 --> 00:39:19,836 Speaker 1: so full of joy as life and color and fun, 606 00:39:22,876 --> 00:39:32,796 Speaker 1: and you're such as I didn't recognize. She's laughing so 607 00:39:32,876 --> 00:39:34,996 Speaker 1: hard that you might not have heard what her coach 608 00:39:35,036 --> 00:39:37,756 Speaker 1: said to her. You were so full of joy and 609 00:39:37,876 --> 00:39:40,716 Speaker 1: life and color and fun, and you're such a bitch. 610 00:39:41,876 --> 00:39:44,956 Speaker 1: She loved that he said it then and obviously still 611 00:39:44,996 --> 00:39:53,196 Speaker 1: loves it now. Oh my god, the poor guy, because 612 00:39:53,316 --> 00:39:58,436 Speaker 1: I am intense and he is. He just never let 613 00:39:58,476 --> 00:40:02,636 Speaker 1: me go. So yes, he helped me over. He helped me, 614 00:40:02,716 --> 00:40:05,996 Speaker 1: He helped me over an enormous he helped me climb 615 00:40:06,076 --> 00:40:10,956 Speaker 1: an enormous mountain, an enormous mountain. You've given me something. 616 00:40:11,036 --> 00:40:14,316 Speaker 1: That's why I had to come. I don't recall giving oh, yes, 617 00:40:15,236 --> 00:40:19,556 Speaker 1: something beautiful. That's why I came back. In fifth grade, 618 00:40:19,916 --> 00:40:22,956 Speaker 1: after Eric Vitro realized he had this gift for helping 619 00:40:22,996 --> 00:40:26,556 Speaker 1: people learn how to sing, he began to collect voices. 620 00:40:27,836 --> 00:40:31,276 Speaker 1: They were a gallery in his mind. He recalls the 621 00:40:31,316 --> 00:40:36,316 Speaker 1: first acquisition when he saw a movie called The Music Man. 622 00:40:36,836 --> 00:40:46,836 Speaker 1: Oh b on the huge but I never I didn't 623 00:40:46,876 --> 00:40:49,236 Speaker 1: see it in the movie theater, but it was on 624 00:40:49,316 --> 00:40:52,556 Speaker 1: television one night, and I had this little real to 625 00:40:52,676 --> 00:40:55,636 Speaker 1: real tape recorders before there was VHS tapes or anything, 626 00:40:56,116 --> 00:40:59,956 Speaker 1: and I recorded the whole thing so I could listen 627 00:40:59,996 --> 00:41:03,036 Speaker 1: to it again. I thought Shirley Jones had such a 628 00:41:03,076 --> 00:41:05,996 Speaker 1: beautiful voice. I used to play it over and over, 629 00:41:06,076 --> 00:41:09,116 Speaker 1: her singing till there was you. The songs she said 630 00:41:09,316 --> 00:41:11,756 Speaker 1: at the end and at the footbridge. I thought it 631 00:41:11,796 --> 00:41:17,116 Speaker 1: was so beautiful that was you. It may have been 632 00:41:17,236 --> 00:41:20,836 Speaker 1: Eric's first experience of paying really close attention to someone 633 00:41:20,876 --> 00:41:24,916 Speaker 1: else's voice, just studying it, And it was ironic that 634 00:41:25,316 --> 00:41:28,116 Speaker 1: you became It was her teacher for years for like 635 00:41:28,156 --> 00:41:32,596 Speaker 1: ten years, you know, and we became very close. That 636 00:41:32,676 --> 00:41:36,036 Speaker 1: was a rare false note for Eric Vitro. It doesn't 637 00:41:36,076 --> 00:41:40,236 Speaker 1: feel at all ironic to me that Shirley Jones, star 638 00:41:40,356 --> 00:41:43,236 Speaker 1: of the Music Man, would one day call Eric and 639 00:41:43,316 --> 00:41:47,196 Speaker 1: ask for his help. It feels like his destiny to 640 00:41:47,236 --> 00:41:50,956 Speaker 1: help her and maybe me too. So before we sing 641 00:41:51,556 --> 00:41:55,756 Speaker 1: Lyda Rose, You're chosen song to heal the wound of 642 00:41:55,836 --> 00:42:01,316 Speaker 1: your child? What are you going to think? What am 643 00:42:01,316 --> 00:42:06,196 Speaker 1: I going to think? Well? I think probably the best 644 00:42:06,236 --> 00:42:11,996 Speaker 1: spirit to sing it in is a slightly comic seduction. Okay, 645 00:42:12,076 --> 00:42:17,156 Speaker 1: it's like an ironic seduction. Okay, So that's the tone. 646 00:42:17,356 --> 00:42:20,476 Speaker 1: That's good, that's the overall tone, and and it's it's 647 00:42:22,436 --> 00:42:24,756 Speaker 1: it's sort of like, yeah, light of Rose, I could 648 00:42:24,796 --> 00:42:26,316 Speaker 1: understand if you don't want to get married at the 649 00:42:26,396 --> 00:42:28,996 Speaker 1: end of this, but I'm giving him my best shot. Okay. Great, 650 00:42:29,396 --> 00:42:33,516 Speaker 1: So it's an irresponsible uh love song. Great, all right, 651 00:42:33,556 --> 00:42:44,636 Speaker 1: So let's sing through light a Rose, Light a Rose, 652 00:42:44,836 --> 00:42:48,316 Speaker 1: I'm home again, Rose, to get the sun back in 653 00:42:48,636 --> 00:42:54,716 Speaker 1: the sky, Light a Rose, I'm home again Rose, About 654 00:42:54,756 --> 00:43:02,756 Speaker 1: a thousand kisses Shine Ding Dong Ding. I can hear 655 00:43:03,196 --> 00:43:11,596 Speaker 1: the Choppel Bill chime, Ding dong ding. At the least suggestion, 656 00:43:12,036 --> 00:43:16,596 Speaker 1: I'll pop the question. Light a Rose, I'm home again, 657 00:43:16,756 --> 00:43:23,076 Speaker 1: Rose without a sweetheart to my name? Light a Rose? 658 00:43:23,276 --> 00:43:30,076 Speaker 1: How everyone knows that I'm hoping you're the same. So 659 00:43:30,276 --> 00:43:38,156 Speaker 1: here is my love song, not fancy or fine, light 660 00:43:38,276 --> 00:43:54,676 Speaker 1: a Rose. Oh, won't you be mind? I'm Michael Lewis. 661 00:43:54,956 --> 00:43:58,076 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Against the Rules. Against the Rules 662 00:43:58,196 --> 00:44:01,556 Speaker 1: is brought to you by Pushkin Industries. The show's produced 663 00:44:01,596 --> 00:44:05,556 Speaker 1: by Audrey Dilling and Catherine Girodo, with research assistance from 664 00:44:05,636 --> 00:44:10,116 Speaker 1: Lydia Jane Cott and Zooe Wynn. Our editor is Julia Barton. 665 00:44:10,756 --> 00:44:14,676 Speaker 1: Mio o'bell is our executive producer. Our theme was composed 666 00:44:14,676 --> 00:44:18,716 Speaker 1: by Nick Brittell, with additional scoring by Stellwagon Sinphonette. We 667 00:44:18,836 --> 00:44:21,836 Speaker 1: got fact checked by Beth Johnson. Our show was recorded 668 00:44:21,836 --> 00:44:25,636 Speaker 1: by tofer Ruth and Trey Schultz at Northgate Studios in Berkeley. 669 00:44:26,236 --> 00:44:31,956 Speaker 1: As always, thanks to Pushkin's founders, Jacob Weisberg and Malcolm Gladwell. 670 00:44:50,356 --> 00:44:53,036 Speaker 1: So my last question and they when you get onto 671 00:44:53,396 --> 00:44:55,316 Speaker 1: the lessons. If you want to get onto the lesson, 672 00:44:55,916 --> 00:45:01,156 Speaker 1: is anyone you ever worked with ask you so much 673 00:45:01,196 --> 00:45:07,316 Speaker 1: about yourself as you. Most of the time people are 674 00:45:07,356 --> 00:45:09,916 Speaker 1: here just to learn, so they don't really asks that 675 00:45:10,036 --> 00:45:12,956 Speaker 1: much about me. Yeah, the dirty little secret is you're 676 00:45:12,996 --> 00:45:15,156 Speaker 1: always the most interesting person in the room, but you're 677 00:45:15,196 --> 00:45:17,756 Speaker 1: paying attention to everybody else. I don't know if that's true, 678 00:45:17,836 --> 00:45:21,236 Speaker 1: but I am paying attention, and you know, I'm sure 679 00:45:21,316 --> 00:45:24,076 Speaker 1: you find this too. It's really more interesting to be 680 00:45:24,236 --> 00:45:27,436 Speaker 1: the person listening to the other people because I know 681 00:45:27,556 --> 00:45:34,036 Speaker 1: my own story about I've got to feel the same way.