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Speaker 1: Pushkin.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, who is this? This is Khalila Holt, your producer.

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Speaker 1: Well, hello, hello, nice to have you back in the studio.

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Speaker 2: Welcome, Nice to be reunited in this auditory space.

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Speaker 1: Yes, indeed it is. Have a seat please.

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Speaker 2: I'm already sitting, but thank you. Yes, we are going

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Speaker 2: to revisit some favorite episodes this spring.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I couldn't be more excited.

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Speaker 2: Do I sound not excited at all? But yeah?

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Speaker 1: You know, sometimes my enthusiasm doesn't come across, and I'm

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Speaker 1: always surprised. Like same, Like in photos, I think that

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Speaker 1: I'm smiling, but then when I see the photos, not

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Speaker 1: only am I not smiling at all, it looks like

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Speaker 1: I'm scowling.

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Speaker 2: I have a really hard time showing enthusiasm too. I've

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Speaker 2: noticed that often when I try to like really lean

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Speaker 2: into enthusiasm in my voice, it sounds like I'm being sarcastic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I am excited, and I'm going to approve

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Speaker 1: me too. I'm going to prove to you my excitement

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Speaker 1: and my enthusiasms as this conversation goes on.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I look forward to that. Yes, and we're gonna

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Speaker 2: also check in with our former guests, because you know,

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Speaker 2: a lot of them have had some changes in the

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Speaker 2: years since.

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Speaker 1: Whereas stories end, lives continue, and.

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Speaker 2: So I do end eventually.

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Speaker 1: Oh God, thanks for bringing the whole thing down.

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Speaker 3: I'm just saying.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's everyone's thinking it all right.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, who are we talking about today?

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Speaker 2: So today we're gonna revisit the episode Jonathan about your

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Speaker 2: friend Tony from our very first season.

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Speaker 1: I love it. It's been a long time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was my favorite episode that season. Something about

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Speaker 2: it just really moved me.

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Speaker 1: Huh.

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Speaker 2: Again, it sounds like I'm being sarcastic, but I'm serious.

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Speaker 2: I really liked it.

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Speaker 1: No, no, I believe you. It's a It's a personal

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Speaker 1: favorite of mine because Tony is one of my best friends,

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Speaker 1: and he's an interesting man and his life beyond the

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Speaker 1: story continued to be interesting and flow in all kinds

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Speaker 1: of unexpected and original directions, so I was really excited

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Speaker 1: to check in with him after we kind of what's

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Speaker 1: the thing that they do in movies? Like after the

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Speaker 1: rap party of this episode, and actually, speaking of rap parties,

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Speaker 1: Yes you want me to do some rapping?

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Speaker 2: No? No, thank you? Okay, I have a fun, little

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Speaker 2: fun story from.

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Speaker 1: Production, Oh please.

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Speaker 2: Which is that there's a part in this where one

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Speaker 2: of Tony's godson says it's over for you, you old sausage.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: When we celebrated the first season, I, at the suggestion

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Speaker 2: of Chris Neery, one of the producers on the first season, right,

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Speaker 2: went and got a cake and I asked them to

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Speaker 2: put on It's over you old sausage.

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Speaker 1: I do remember this, and I thank you. I thank

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Speaker 1: you again for that. But if you had to do

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Speaker 1: it all over again, if you were to make edits,

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Speaker 1: might you say it's not over you a young sausage.

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Speaker 2: It's still going you young sausage.

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Speaker 1: So enjoy, Yeah, enjoy. We'll check in with Tony at

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Speaker 1: the end of the episode, and not to overpromise, but

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Speaker 1: there's just a lot that's gone on in his life

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Speaker 1: and a lot that continues to go on. Yes, but

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Speaker 1: first things first, a word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 3: Did hi?

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Speaker 2: This is Khalila from Gimlet Media. Please hold for Jonathan Goldstein.

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry, who is this.

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Speaker 2: Khalila from Gimblet Media. Please hold for Jonathan Goldstein?

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Speaker 4: Please hold? Yeah, Wow, Hello, Hello. How nice of you

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Speaker 4: to take the call from yourself. Oh hey, Jackie, you

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Speaker 4: seem surprised that you called me so to hear from you.

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Speaker 5: You.

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize that I had you on my calendar.

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Speaker 1: But this is great. How are you doing? It's been

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Speaker 1: so busy. It's nice to decompress and have a normal conversation.

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Speaker 1: How's it going from Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and

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Speaker 1: this is Heavyweight Today's episode.

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Speaker 6: Tony, Paul, how are you very good?

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Speaker 1: Thanks?

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Speaker 3: I was wondering if you would be up for meeting

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Speaker 3: me for an hour?

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Speaker 7: Okay, what about I was.

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Speaker 3: Absent for most of your life, and you know, I've

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Speaker 3: always felt sad about it.

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Speaker 1: Here's something you don't hear every day. A godfather awkwardly

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Speaker 1: asking out his thirty one year old godson on a

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Speaker 1: god date.

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Speaker 3: I know you're I know your busy as life, mouthed father.

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Speaker 3: Who and but I think you'd spare an hour like

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Speaker 3: Monday or Tuesday night, you know.

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Speaker 7: Unfortunately, a week in advance not to I don't know what.

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Speaker 1: The hell was not the godfather being blown off as

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Speaker 1: my friend Tony, the realization that he needed to be

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Speaker 1: a better godfather came suddenly. It was like if Vido

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Speaker 1: Corleone woke up one morning and thought, you know, godfathering

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Speaker 1: should be more than just decapitating horses, and then picked

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Speaker 1: up a rotary phone and asked Johnny Fontaine out on

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Speaker 1: an ice cream date. But to explain how Tony got

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Speaker 1: to this point, let's go back to the beginning. It

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Speaker 1: all started when Tony and I were catching up and

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Speaker 1: regarding work. How is that going good?

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Speaker 5: It's really great. I've like, I'm actually enjoying the process

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Speaker 5: I'm making this film, which is I think the really

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Speaker 5: amazing thing about the past year.

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Speaker 1: This past year has been a hard one for Tony.

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Speaker 1: He's recently divorced and still adjusting the house that has

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Speaker 1: been settled.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, everything is settled. Everything is settled. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I first met Tony in college when he was a

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Speaker 1: young film student with manic energy, Jean Shallatt, curly black hair,

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Speaker 1: and gray clothes that always smelt of Greek food. After college,

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Speaker 1: we became roommates and on the weekend his would visit.

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Speaker 1: She referred to me as gatzo'meli's mano everyaki, which I

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Speaker 1: think translates loosely as the alley cat haired little jew.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't mind because whenever she showed up, she

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Speaker 1: brought Homemateespencopita and Terra mussolada. Tony would wash down these

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Speaker 1: Grecian delights with copious amounts of booze. Pretty soon he

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Speaker 1: started washing everything down with booze. There's an image from

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Speaker 1: that time that stuck with me. Tony had decided to

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Speaker 1: join me at the gym after downing a half bottle

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Speaker 1: of vodka. I remember him wailing on the heavy bag

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Speaker 1: in his undershirt and gray jeans, looking a little like

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Speaker 1: a kid, pounding on the floor, fed up with everything. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: Tony turned to harder drugs like heroin, and soon after

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Speaker 1: that we stopped being roommates. Tony went to rehab and

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Speaker 1: after he got out, spent some years putting his life

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Speaker 1: back together. He had a few relationships, and then he

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Speaker 1: met Natalie. Natalie was smart and loved to write, and

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Speaker 1: when Tony hugged her, she disappeared into his body. Tony's

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Speaker 1: a big guy with a thick black beard covering his

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Speaker 1: boyish face, and Natalie was apple cheeked and glamorous. I

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Speaker 1: like being around them. One time, while walking by a

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Speaker 1: curiosity shop, I saw a comically small ping pong table

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Speaker 1: in the window. Immediately I thought of Tony and Natalie.

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Speaker 1: I imagined the two of them in their kitchen, smacking

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Speaker 1: the little ball back and forth together and laughing. During

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Speaker 1: their wedding vows, Natalie said, I vowed to grow old

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Speaker 1: with you, but most of all, to grow young with you,

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Speaker 1: and Tony interrupted her right in the middle, eyes welling

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Speaker 1: up to say me too. It was like he'd blown

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Speaker 1: his youth but was getting another chance. But then, at

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Speaker 1: some point, around three years in, things started to get tougher.

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Speaker 1: Tony spent a lot of time locked in his studio,

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Speaker 1: working obsessively on his movies, and Natalie started to feel

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Speaker 1: hamstrung by montreal It's smallness, the lack of opportunities. They

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Speaker 1: wanted a baby, but were having a hard time with it.

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Speaker 1: And then Tony's dad died, making him the sole caretaker

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Speaker 1: of his mother, a woman who didn't shy away from

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Speaker 1: espousing strong opinions about her son's personal life. All of

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Speaker 1: this was hard on him and Natalie.

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Speaker 5: She was not happy. She was not happy, She was

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Speaker 5: not happy. She just didn't want to be here.

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Speaker 1: Natalie wanted to start a new life in a new place,

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Speaker 1: but Tony felt happily stuck in the old one and

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Speaker 1: he couldn't leave his mother all alone. So when Natalie

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Speaker 1: decided to leave town, he knew he couldn't go with her.

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Speaker 1: Was there ever a conversation in which you were both

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Speaker 1: trying to envision a way in which you could leave

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Speaker 1: the city.

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Speaker 5: No, because there was no way.

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Speaker 1: Like even with your mother to go with you.

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Speaker 5: Why is that no?

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Speaker 1: Tony's mother is an eighty four year old Greek woman

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Speaker 1: with little English whose only hobbies are meticulously cleaning her

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Speaker 1: toaster of and wringing her hands while frowning and so

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Speaker 1: in here lies the heart of Tony's current problem. Before

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Speaker 1: they separated, Tony and Natalie were trying to have a baby,

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Speaker 1: and now he finds himself alone, middle aged, and worried

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Speaker 1: he's missed his last chance to have a kid.

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Speaker 5: I don't think there's a point to anything if you

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Speaker 5: don't have a relationship with a young person. How do

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Speaker 5: you mean if I sit here in the dark thinking

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Speaker 5: about it and realizing, you know, I'm forty six years

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Speaker 5: old and I live alone, and I'm not probably not

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Speaker 5: going to have kids, and who the fuck gives a

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Speaker 5: shit if I live or die aside from my mother

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Speaker 5: and a few friends, But really, who gives a shit.

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Speaker 5: You know, who's going to feel a loss. I'm not

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Speaker 5: saying that in an egotistical way, But who do I

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Speaker 5: mean something to? Whose life have I enriched? Like? I

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Speaker 5: don't think I don't understand what there is to do

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Speaker 5: here if you're not somehow helping or being connected to

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Speaker 5: a younger person.

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Speaker 1: Lately, Tony's been thinking about three young people he had

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Speaker 1: been connected to, his estranged god children. Tony admits to

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Speaker 1: screwing up those three relationships during three difficult chapters in

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Speaker 1: his life drug addiction, rehab, and divorce. What if you

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Speaker 1: were to try to get them back in your life?

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Speaker 5: I'm not sure what difference I can make and somebody's

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Speaker 5: it's kind of like, hey, yeah, here I am now,

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Speaker 5: I'm ready for you, Like I haven't been here all

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Speaker 5: these years, but hey here I am now. You know.

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Speaker 1: Not hearing my friend give up on himself so easily,

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Speaker 1: I decided to suggest something bold. Why not try reaching

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Speaker 1: out to the god kids he lost?

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Speaker 5: Now? I mean, I actually do want to have a relationship.

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Speaker 5: I do.

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Speaker 1: You don't know until you at least try.

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Speaker 5: Right, I'm I'm I'm open to anything.

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Speaker 1: And do you have their phone numbers? I get him

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Speaker 1: to tell me about them, Beginning with the first Paul.

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Speaker 5: I was sixteen years old. It was very formal. I

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Speaker 5: held this kid in a Greek Orthodox baptism ceremony for

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Speaker 5: an hour. My arm almost fell off. Babies are really heavy,

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Speaker 5: especially when you have one arm to hold onto them

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Speaker 5: and have a candle in the other. Yeah, but it

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Speaker 5: was cute. You know. I was really young, and I

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Speaker 5: was close to their family, but I was sixteen. Within

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Speaker 5: like two years, I was a raving, lunatic, alcoholic drug addict.

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Speaker 5: I didn't see much of him or anybody at all

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Speaker 5: from the family for quite a few years. And I

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Speaker 5: didn't think about it much, that's for sure.

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Speaker 1: And this god kid, what's his name. His name is Paul,

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Speaker 1: and Paul would be about thirty years old.

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Speaker 5: Now, uh, yeah, he's thirty one. And here's the thing.

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Speaker 5: I've never actually talked to him about about how he

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Speaker 5: felt having an absence he godfather. But he beat me

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Speaker 5: at an arm wrestle, and he I think he really

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Speaker 5: enjoyed that.

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Speaker 1: And when you say he enjoyed that, he enjoyed hanging

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Speaker 1: out and spending time with you, or he enjoyed beating you,

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Speaker 1: enjoyed beating me for being such a crappy godfather.

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Speaker 5: That's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, is there a particular question that you would want

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Speaker 1: to pose to him or to all of them?

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Speaker 5: Do you hate me? Like? Does it mean anything that

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Speaker 5: I'm somebody's godfather because I said so or somebody said so,

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Speaker 5: or we did something long time ago. It can mean

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Speaker 5: nothing or it can mean something. You know, Godfather's a

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Speaker 5: big fucking deal if you think about it. It has

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Speaker 5: this spiritual implication God right, it's not toilet father.

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Speaker 1: And so, with my encouragement, Tony picked up the phone

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Speaker 1: and reached out to Paul, which brings us back to

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Speaker 1: the phone call you heard.

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Speaker 3: Earlier on Saturday.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I think that's that'll be easiest.

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Speaker 3: Okay are you? Are you up to this? You don't

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Speaker 3: feel like I don't want to impose on you like.

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Speaker 7: And you said you know you feel bad. I don't

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Speaker 7: think you should. There's nothing to feel bad about. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 7: but yeah, give me a call the weekend and we'll

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Speaker 7: try to figure something out.

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Speaker 3: Okay, great, I'll call you perfect right, sounds good. YouTube.

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Speaker 1: On Saturday, Tony called with no response, He reached out

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Speaker 1: again and again. Eventually he gave up. Tony and Paul

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Speaker 1: never got together. Tony and I reconvene, and I tried

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Speaker 1: to bolster his spirits. Maybe things would go better with godchild.

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Speaker 1: The second Zoe.

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Speaker 5: She is the daughter of a rehab buddy who was

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Speaker 5: actually also a drug dealer here in Montreal when I

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Speaker 5: was dealing in Montreal and we met in rehab in Ottawa,

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Speaker 5: and he asked me, do you want to be her godfather?

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Speaker 5: I said sure, I said you guys in baptizer. I said, no,

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Speaker 5: be her godfather? Okay, great, And so it was just

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Speaker 5: like that. So that was easy, yeah, but it was meaningful.

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Speaker 5: I was happy to do whatever was going to be

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Speaker 5: required with me. And I did see the kid, you know,

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Speaker 5: when she was young, and then I moved to Montreal

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Speaker 5: and so she basically grew up without me.

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Speaker 1: In the intervening years, Tony's only seen Zoe a couple

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Speaker 1: times when she comes to town. She doesn't bother looking

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Speaker 1: him up.

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Speaker 5: Because I remember how I used to see people that

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Speaker 5: were like, never mind forties. Yeah, like people in their

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Speaker 5: thirties were crusty, you know, a yellow tonyailed you know,

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Speaker 5: old people, and occasionally, you know, I get like she

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Speaker 5: likes something on my Facebook page and I'll be like ooh.

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Speaker 1: But Tony wants more than that. Since Zoe still lives

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Speaker 1: in Ottawa, just a two hour drive away, I suggest

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Speaker 1: to go visit her. Maybe it isn't too late. But

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Speaker 1: after his failed attempt with Paul, he isn't sure she'll

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Speaker 1: even want to see him, so I offered a road

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Speaker 1: trip down with him for emotional support. You know, the

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Speaker 1: whole purpose of this thing is for you not to

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Speaker 1: be a dead meat.

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Speaker 5: God Dad, I know. I feel really bad. It's my fault.

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Speaker 1: It's Zowa's last week of high school and Tony's arranged

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Speaker 1: to pick her up after her day of finals.

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Speaker 5: You don't mind driving a little fast to you. Don't

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Speaker 5: go like snail past grandma style.

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Speaker 1: That's my style, No grandma style.

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Speaker 5: Don't do that.

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Speaker 1: When we get to the school, Zoe's waiting outside.

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Speaker 5: All right, here we go. You're feeling good. I'm feeling good.

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Speaker 3: There we get, here we go, Here we're weird.

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Speaker 6: Hello, Hello, how are you?

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Speaker 1: Zoe is eighteen. She's wearing a Yin and Yang choker

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Speaker 1: around her neck and a pink scrunchy in her hair.

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Speaker 5: So how's everything?

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Speaker 8: How are you really good, almost done high school, the

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Speaker 8: final Frontier.

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Speaker 5: So let's go to the park.

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Speaker 1: Would you like some candy?

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Speaker 5: Tom Zilli?

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Speaker 1: As Tony's emotional support system, I thought it might be

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Speaker 1: helpful to bring refreshments. We drive along, chewing in silence,

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Speaker 1: and then Tony decides to break the ice.

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Speaker 5: I have a really disgusting story to tell you.

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Speaker 8: Well, can you contextualize what discussing?

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Speaker 5: Oh my god, I'm only thinking about it because it

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Speaker 5: happened right around here.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, I don't like where this is going.

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Speaker 5: A friend of mine has been color electing his vomit

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Speaker 5: for the past twenty years in a gigantic tin like

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Speaker 5: a gigantic metal drama in the basement.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, what heck?

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Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting.

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Speaker 8: That's so terrible.

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Speaker 4: Why would you?

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Speaker 8: Why would you bring something like that up right now?

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Speaker 4: So like, how did you find out about that?

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Speaker 1: So many questions and fun fact, the vomit house is

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Speaker 1: on Ralph Street. Google map it. It's right there next

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Speaker 1: to Brown's inlet the park we're on our way to.

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Speaker 8: I've only been to this park once before, and.

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Speaker 4: That was a weird day.

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Speaker 5: Explain.

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Speaker 8: I started dating this guy and like the first time

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Speaker 8: we ever hung out outside of school was in this park.

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Speaker 8: We were on those swings and I just remember being like, Wow,

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Speaker 8: this is really weird, like this is a date.

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Speaker 2: So I guess that was like my first date.

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Speaker 1: We find a picnic table beside the playground where young

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Speaker 1: mothers are playing with their babies. Tony and Zoe sit

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Speaker 1: side by side. She fiddling with a strand of hair

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Speaker 1: and he's staring at the table, sweeping pebbles of sand.

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Speaker 1: Back and forth. The two of them catch up. It

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Speaker 1: turns out Zoe's taking improv classes and Tony's taken improv

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Speaker 1: classes too.

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Speaker 5: Back and forth. Ah, I'd love to see that. I'd

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Speaker 5: love to see that.

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Speaker 4: You'd like my troop.

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Speaker 2: I think you'd like those guys a lot.

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Speaker 1: Being both a friend who wants to encourage bonding as

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Speaker 1: well as a lover of show business, I ask if

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Speaker 1: they might improvise a scene or two.

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Speaker 5: This is my favorite bench.

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Speaker 8: It's funny because it's also my favorite bench, and I've

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Speaker 8: actually never seen you sitting here.

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Speaker 1: But instead of the comedic romp I'd hoped for, I

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Speaker 1: get a sluggish five minute piece of Samuel Bihetti in theater.

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Speaker 8: So I guess what I'm saying is you'll either have

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Speaker 8: to move to the bench that's beside mine or beside his.

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Speaker 1: And scene I thought, like, I'm probaly supposed to be

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Speaker 1: like Funny well because he.

349
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Speaker 5: Usually his energy. And you're on stage and you're like,

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Speaker 5: you're doing stupid shit and people are laughing, You're not.

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Speaker 1: Laughing, and in my heart it feels like Christmas morning

352
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Speaker 1: on Ralph Street. As Tony and Zoe begin to bond.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, so I'm playing look at it.

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00:20:36,169 --> 00:20:40,889
Speaker 1: They're having fun, but Tony's still thinking about godfatherhood. Tentatively,

355
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Speaker 1: he brings it up.

356
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Speaker 5: I the godfather Traditionally, Well, godfather's supposed to to write

357
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Speaker 5: spiritual instruction. And I wasn't there when you were really young,

358
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Speaker 5: when you were told when you were young, this is Tony,

359
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Speaker 5: he's your godfather. Do you remember that?

360
00:21:03,010 --> 00:21:04,209
Speaker 2: I always knew that you would.

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Speaker 8: You had this connection to my parents that was really valuable,

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00:21:07,010 --> 00:21:09,570
Speaker 8: So by extensionally you'd be valuable to me, even though

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Speaker 8: I didn't know you.

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Speaker 5: That Well, Yeah, what what can I offer you at

365
00:21:13,929 --> 00:21:17,250
Speaker 5: this point? From this point onward in a formal fashion,

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Speaker 5: I don't know what you hope for me to provide

367
00:21:21,609 --> 00:21:22,889
Speaker 5: for you? Is like to provide for me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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00:21:23,889 --> 00:21:25,209
Speaker 5: Oh, I mean it's a two way street.

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Speaker 8: I mean I can't just like take so much and

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Speaker 8: not give anything to you.

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Speaker 5: So that's the point, the point, you know, that's the point,

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Speaker 5: is that I'm here for you.

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Speaker 1: That is the point with a God child, not so

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Speaker 1: much with a God adult. The children's book is called

376
00:21:44,330 --> 00:21:48,489
Speaker 1: The Giving Tree, not the Giving and Taking Tree. Children

377
00:21:48,490 --> 00:21:51,290
Speaker 1: aren't self conscious. They don't find it weird to take

378
00:21:51,330 --> 00:21:55,529
Speaker 1: without giving anything in return, but adults do. I mean,

379
00:21:55,570 --> 00:21:57,969
Speaker 1: getting to feel like pushing Tony to reconnect with his

380
00:21:58,050 --> 00:22:02,049
Speaker 1: God children might have been foolhardy. Tony can't just insert

381
00:22:02,090 --> 00:22:04,850
Speaker 1: himself into a past he missed out on. And as

382
00:22:04,889 --> 00:22:08,169
Speaker 1: for the future, Zoe's getting ready to go off to college.

383
00:22:08,649 --> 00:22:11,250
Speaker 1: She's at a point in life when actual parents see

384
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Speaker 1: less and less of their kids, never mind godparents.

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00:22:15,570 --> 00:22:16,850
Speaker 5: She was a little bit country and he was a

386
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Speaker 5: little bit rock and roll. That was a song, I'm

387
00:22:18,570 --> 00:22:22,410
Speaker 5: a little bit countrys I'm a little bit.

388
00:22:23,730 --> 00:22:26,690
Speaker 1: As Tony sings both parts of Adannie and Marie duet,

389
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Speaker 1: Zoe watches him with a big smile on her face.

390
00:22:30,129 --> 00:22:32,969
Speaker 1: It's clear they really enjoy each other. And the afternoon

391
00:22:33,010 --> 00:22:36,170
Speaker 1: goes well, But as far as the god parental relationship

392
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Speaker 1: Tony wants, it feels like it just might be too late.

393
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Speaker 5: I'm really impressed. I think I've got a pretty fucking

394
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Speaker 5: firm alled on things well.

395
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Speaker 8: I mean, if you're ever in dire need for like

396
00:22:50,209 --> 00:22:53,129
Speaker 8: a caregiver when you're old and can't go to the

397
00:22:53,129 --> 00:22:55,330
Speaker 8: bathroom or something like, I could help you.

398
00:23:00,209 --> 00:23:03,449
Speaker 1: Only one godchild to go, Will Tony be a godfather

399
00:23:03,810 --> 00:23:06,570
Speaker 1: or a toilet father? Is the cat still in the cradle?

400
00:23:06,810 --> 00:23:09,490
Speaker 1: And if so, will he scratch Tony's eyes out when

401
00:23:09,570 --> 00:23:13,970
Speaker 1: roused from his godfatherless slumber. We'll find out after these

402
00:23:14,010 --> 00:23:29,969
Speaker 1: important messages from our sponsors. Tony's first godchild, Paul, didn't

403
00:23:29,970 --> 00:23:33,129
Speaker 1: have the time for a relationship, and his second godchild,

404
00:23:33,250 --> 00:23:37,770
Speaker 1: Zoe had outgrown the whole godfather goddaughter thing. That left

405
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Speaker 1: him one last chance, nine year old Nicholas godchild.

406
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Speaker 5: The third Nicholas godchild number three is Nicholas, the son

407
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Speaker 5: of my cousin.

408
00:23:47,330 --> 00:23:50,449
Speaker 1: This one is especially challenging for Tony because, unlike with

409
00:23:50,530 --> 00:23:53,649
Speaker 1: Paul and Zoe, Tony's not the only godparent in the picture.

410
00:23:54,369 --> 00:23:57,609
Speaker 1: Tony's ex wife, Natalie was warm and likable. When they

411
00:23:57,609 --> 00:24:00,929
Speaker 1: started dating. She helped him reconnect with his family so

412
00:24:01,090 --> 00:24:04,369
Speaker 1: much so though when Nicholas was born, his mom, a

413
00:24:04,409 --> 00:24:07,729
Speaker 1: cousin Tony wasn't even especially close to, asked them both

414
00:24:07,770 --> 00:24:10,809
Speaker 1: to be a godparents. Tony and Natalie were together at

415
00:24:10,889 --> 00:24:12,050
Speaker 1: Nicholas's baptism.

416
00:24:12,449 --> 00:24:16,529
Speaker 5: I was holding him and he was really was He

417
00:24:16,570 --> 00:24:20,090
Speaker 5: was really upset until I took him, and he was

418
00:24:20,169 --> 00:24:23,290
Speaker 5: quiet the whole time, And everybody was kind of spooked

419
00:24:23,290 --> 00:24:25,369
Speaker 5: by the fact that he was suddenly so quiet m

420
00:24:25,570 --> 00:24:28,649
Speaker 5: hm when I was holding him. So there was this

421
00:24:28,689 --> 00:24:31,249
Speaker 5: whole kind of energy around, like, oh, why is this

422
00:24:31,689 --> 00:24:34,570
Speaker 5: power Tony has over Nicholas, or why is he so quiet?

423
00:24:34,970 --> 00:24:37,290
Speaker 5: And everybody seemed to make a kind of a strange

424
00:24:37,290 --> 00:24:39,850
Speaker 5: impression on people. And it felt good to sort of

425
00:24:39,889 --> 00:24:42,330
Speaker 5: be I guess, for whatever reason and nothing to do

426
00:24:42,330 --> 00:24:49,570
Speaker 5: with me, somehow this kid felt soothed or calmed by me.

427
00:24:50,490 --> 00:24:53,409
Speaker 5: And we baptized the kid. We had a big party,

428
00:24:53,490 --> 00:24:56,609
Speaker 5: and then we started. We were there every year, like

429
00:24:56,649 --> 00:24:58,970
Speaker 5: three or four times a year, which is pretty good.

430
00:25:00,090 --> 00:25:03,570
Speaker 5: But it was all good, but it was all about

431
00:25:03,649 --> 00:25:04,490
Speaker 5: being with Natalie.

432
00:25:06,889 --> 00:25:10,009
Speaker 1: Natalie was the initiator. She's the one who planned the Godparents,

433
00:25:10,010 --> 00:25:13,330
Speaker 1: stuff like trips with Nicholas to the movies in the museum.

434
00:25:13,730 --> 00:25:16,409
Speaker 1: Nicholas loved Natalie and related to her and Tony as

435
00:25:16,449 --> 00:25:19,570
Speaker 1: a unit. So when that unit split up, Tony couldn't

436
00:25:19,570 --> 00:25:22,649
Speaker 1: bring himself to keep visiting Nicholas and his mom. It

437
00:25:22,689 --> 00:25:24,850
Speaker 1: reminded him too much of Natalie.

438
00:25:25,530 --> 00:25:28,850
Speaker 5: I didn't feel like seeing them. I didn't feel like

439
00:25:28,889 --> 00:25:31,449
Speaker 5: going to her house because I always went there with Natalie.

440
00:25:33,290 --> 00:25:37,050
Speaker 1: But Nicholas's mother continued to reach out. Nicholas really misses you,

441
00:25:37,129 --> 00:25:40,729
Speaker 1: she'd write. Eventually, she suggested they all get together on

442
00:25:40,810 --> 00:25:43,250
Speaker 1: neutral ground, her sister's house.

443
00:25:43,730 --> 00:25:47,330
Speaker 5: So we did. We set up a surprise dinner, which

444
00:25:47,369 --> 00:25:52,050
Speaker 5: was about two months ago, and I went over and

445
00:25:52,929 --> 00:25:56,689
Speaker 5: they were really happy to see me. But at the

446
00:25:56,689 --> 00:26:01,129
Speaker 5: same time, I noticed Nicholas's first reaction. He was kind

447
00:26:01,129 --> 00:26:05,129
Speaker 5: of shocked, and I could see that all this stuff

448
00:26:05,169 --> 00:26:06,850
Speaker 5: went through his eyes, and then he put on this

449
00:26:06,970 --> 00:26:10,050
Speaker 5: kind of smiley, happy guy thing. I could read it

450
00:26:10,090 --> 00:26:11,330
Speaker 5: all in his face right away.

451
00:26:12,490 --> 00:26:16,770
Speaker 1: And you think that was because Natalie wasn't there. Yeah, Yeah,

452
00:26:17,810 --> 00:26:20,530
Speaker 1: Tony's afraid that Nicholas won't want a relationship with him

453
00:26:20,570 --> 00:26:23,489
Speaker 1: that doesn't include Natalie. Afraid that maybe he's not the

454
00:26:23,490 --> 00:26:26,489
Speaker 1: godparent that Nicholas wants, But he also doesn't want to

455
00:26:26,530 --> 00:26:29,609
Speaker 1: repeat the same mistakes, so he screws up his courage

456
00:26:29,730 --> 00:26:32,730
Speaker 1: and goes back over for dinner, hoping he and Nicholas

457
00:26:32,730 --> 00:26:38,050
Speaker 1: can connect again. But before Tony gets a chance to

458
00:26:38,090 --> 00:26:41,330
Speaker 1: sit down, the very first words out of Nicholas's mouth.

459
00:26:45,330 --> 00:26:49,049
Speaker 5: Naldie, she's She's okay.

460
00:26:50,250 --> 00:26:52,409
Speaker 9: If he just couldn't get back with her, that would

461
00:26:52,449 --> 00:26:53,010
Speaker 9: be a relief.

462
00:26:54,929 --> 00:26:56,210
Speaker 5: Why would that be a relief?

463
00:26:57,250 --> 00:26:59,209
Speaker 1: I want to see her again, never get.

464
00:26:59,050 --> 00:27:06,770
Speaker 5: To see her. Yeah, that's true. I only see you,

465
00:27:08,330 --> 00:27:14,729
Speaker 5: and that's not an you will see her again. Then

466
00:27:14,730 --> 00:27:18,050
Speaker 5: she says, I because she's in Australia. Actually she's in

467
00:27:18,090 --> 00:27:18,650
Speaker 5: New Zealand.

468
00:27:19,850 --> 00:27:22,850
Speaker 9: You don't want to be in the places she is, right, Well,

469
00:27:22,850 --> 00:27:23,409
Speaker 9: I don't want.

470
00:27:23,250 --> 00:27:24,689
Speaker 5: To be in New Zealand because it's far away from

471
00:27:24,730 --> 00:27:27,770
Speaker 5: everything that I do. My mother is here. My mother's

472
00:27:27,770 --> 00:27:29,810
Speaker 5: an old lady, she's eighty five years old and she

473
00:27:29,850 --> 00:27:33,770
Speaker 5: needs me. She can't live alone, so I can't go anywhere.

474
00:27:35,530 --> 00:27:37,649
Speaker 5: So it's finally he doesn't want to be here.

475
00:27:38,449 --> 00:27:39,530
Speaker 9: It's over for you.

476
00:27:40,490 --> 00:27:41,449
Speaker 1: It's over for you.

477
00:27:41,490 --> 00:27:43,290
Speaker 9: Out sausage.

478
00:27:46,409 --> 00:27:52,049
Speaker 5: It looks like that, but you never know. I'm not

479
00:27:52,129 --> 00:27:53,290
Speaker 5: in love with anybody else.

480
00:27:54,850 --> 00:27:57,169
Speaker 1: They sit down on the couch and Tony faces the

481
00:27:57,169 --> 00:28:00,449
Speaker 1: thing that's hardest for him to talk about even with adults,

482
00:28:00,929 --> 00:28:02,330
Speaker 1: let alone a child.

483
00:28:02,530 --> 00:28:04,090
Speaker 5: So are you going to be sad if you don't

484
00:28:04,090 --> 00:28:06,930
Speaker 5: see her again? A bit? A bit?

485
00:28:07,169 --> 00:28:08,290
Speaker 9: I can't, just kidding a lot.

486
00:28:12,689 --> 00:28:15,409
Speaker 5: Is there anything that you want to ask me or

487
00:28:15,409 --> 00:28:16,449
Speaker 5: about Natalie or anything?

488
00:28:17,169 --> 00:28:17,609
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

489
00:28:19,609 --> 00:28:22,050
Speaker 9: Did a part of did you feel like a part

490
00:28:22,090 --> 00:28:25,929
Speaker 9: of your heart broke up to pieces?

491
00:28:26,889 --> 00:28:27,290
Speaker 5: Yeah?

492
00:28:27,530 --> 00:28:27,889
Speaker 4: You did?

493
00:28:28,850 --> 00:28:34,730
Speaker 5: Yeah, very much? A lot.

494
00:28:35,689 --> 00:28:36,769
Speaker 9: Do you miss her a lot?

495
00:28:37,530 --> 00:28:39,170
Speaker 5: Yeah? I do.

496
00:28:40,170 --> 00:28:45,450
Speaker 9: Well you should have. You should have said this, come

497
00:28:45,490 --> 00:28:49,770
Speaker 9: back whenever you come. You could come back whenever you want,

498
00:28:50,170 --> 00:28:55,130
Speaker 9: or just say or just say sorry or something.

499
00:28:55,890 --> 00:29:03,050
Speaker 10: Yeah, I did, okay, I said sorry, and so did she.

500
00:29:03,050 --> 00:29:05,330
Speaker 10: She had things to be sorry about too, And then

501
00:29:05,570 --> 00:29:07,290
Speaker 10: I said come back for a long time, I said,

502
00:29:07,330 --> 00:29:13,450
Speaker 10: come back whenever you want. And I think I think

503
00:29:13,490 --> 00:29:17,370
Speaker 10: she's decided not to. I think she's decided.

504
00:29:18,290 --> 00:29:21,370
Speaker 9: Maybe it's because Post Canada takes a long time to

505
00:29:21,490 --> 00:29:23,490
Speaker 9: get a note, really long.

506
00:29:23,730 --> 00:29:25,250
Speaker 5: No, But I read her on the internet.

507
00:29:26,330 --> 00:29:29,410
Speaker 9: Oh Internet, Oh that makes more sense, I thought you.

508
00:29:29,930 --> 00:29:32,250
Speaker 9: Brian from postcreada.

509
00:29:33,170 --> 00:29:36,330
Speaker 1: Tony's putting away his own feelings and focusing on Nicholas's,

510
00:29:36,930 --> 00:29:40,410
Speaker 1: which is a very godfatherly thing to do. And Nicholas,

511
00:29:40,450 --> 00:29:43,050
Speaker 1: for his part, seems to be straining on his emotional

512
00:29:43,090 --> 00:29:47,010
Speaker 1: tiptoes to try to reach Tony, and together they meet

513
00:29:47,010 --> 00:29:47,810
Speaker 1: somewhere in the middle.

514
00:29:49,290 --> 00:29:52,370
Speaker 5: Do you remember when I, you know, I baptized you, right, yeah,

515
00:29:53,290 --> 00:29:55,730
Speaker 5: and you were crying, you were really upset. I had

516
00:29:55,730 --> 00:29:59,170
Speaker 5: to pick you up. When I picked you up, if

517
00:29:59,209 --> 00:30:03,410
Speaker 5: you went totally quiet, and everybody was like, he's so quiet,

518
00:30:04,090 --> 00:30:08,930
Speaker 5: and everybody said, you you made him calm, And I thought,

519
00:30:09,170 --> 00:30:11,529
Speaker 5: that's cool. Maybe that's what godfathers are supposed to do.

520
00:30:12,450 --> 00:30:16,650
Speaker 5: They're supposed to make people calm and be like everything's okay,

521
00:30:16,730 --> 00:30:19,810
Speaker 5: don't worry about it, you know. But let me ask

522
00:30:19,850 --> 00:30:25,570
Speaker 5: you something. Yeah, what kind of godfather do you want.

523
00:30:25,450 --> 00:30:25,769
Speaker 4: Me to be?

524
00:30:27,570 --> 00:30:29,489
Speaker 9: I wanted you to be the same thing as you

525
00:30:29,490 --> 00:30:34,650
Speaker 9: are right now, which is what you're a really good godfather.

526
00:30:35,290 --> 00:30:36,969
Speaker 5: I am.

527
00:30:37,330 --> 00:30:38,330
Speaker 9: You're pretty good.

528
00:30:38,930 --> 00:30:42,330
Speaker 5: Thanks man. I appreciate that. That's very nice.

529
00:30:42,410 --> 00:30:45,729
Speaker 9: You're really good your godfather.

530
00:30:47,650 --> 00:30:50,210
Speaker 5: That's awesome, cool man.

531
00:30:58,130 --> 00:31:02,250
Speaker 1: And with that, Tony was a godfather because when your

532
00:31:02,250 --> 00:31:05,490
Speaker 1: godchild tells you you're a godfather. You're a godfather.

533
00:31:09,170 --> 00:31:09,690
Speaker 6: Mm hmmm.

534
00:31:16,930 --> 00:31:18,810
Speaker 1: When I talked to Tony a couple of weeks later,

535
00:31:19,090 --> 00:31:21,730
Speaker 1: he had already seen Nicholas again. They went to visit

536
00:31:21,770 --> 00:31:24,650
Speaker 1: Tony's mom. He says she liked having a kid around

537
00:31:25,090 --> 00:31:30,730
Speaker 1: to wait on to serve spin a copita.

538
00:31:31,370 --> 00:31:32,290
Speaker 5: She's laughing at her heart.

539
00:31:34,209 --> 00:31:36,209
Speaker 9: This is the best day that I ever had.

540
00:31:39,330 --> 00:32:11,410
Speaker 5: It's only just begun. Now that the first batchers returning

541
00:32:11,570 --> 00:32:19,209
Speaker 5: to it's goodwill home, Now that the last month's rent

542
00:32:19,530 --> 00:32:20,890
Speaker 5: is skiming with.

543
00:32:21,130 --> 00:32:24,650
Speaker 10: The damage to pos take this moment to just.

544
00:32:24,810 --> 00:32:33,610
Speaker 2: S if we met, if we Turke.

545
00:32:32,290 --> 00:32:37,289
Speaker 10: Felt around for from things.

546
00:32:37,330 --> 00:32:40,250
Speaker 1: Accident recording.

547
00:32:41,650 --> 00:32:42,770
Speaker 5: Have you wait to update?

548
00:32:48,770 --> 00:32:50,930
Speaker 1: Jonathan Goldstein Fast Time video.

549
00:32:53,250 --> 00:32:55,770
Speaker 5: Hey hey, let me just uh let me show you

550
00:32:55,810 --> 00:32:56,529
Speaker 5: what's happening here.

551
00:32:56,690 --> 00:32:57,010
Speaker 3: Uh huh.

552
00:32:57,209 --> 00:32:59,810
Speaker 5: So it's recording on the MacBook MIC. You're getting the

553
00:32:59,890 --> 00:33:04,170
Speaker 5: MacBook MIC. You're getting the iPhone like six inches from

554
00:33:04,209 --> 00:33:04,650
Speaker 5: my mouth.

555
00:33:05,170 --> 00:33:07,210
Speaker 1: You know what you're doing. You know what Jackie Cohen

556
00:33:07,250 --> 00:33:10,290
Speaker 1: would say, huh fuck you? Well what she say she

557
00:33:10,330 --> 00:33:12,009
Speaker 1: would be like, look at you, you think you need

558
00:33:12,090 --> 00:33:13,130
Speaker 1: three microphones?

559
00:33:13,890 --> 00:33:15,610
Speaker 5: Well, you have to say is so important.

560
00:33:15,209 --> 00:33:17,290
Speaker 1: Because everyone wants to hear what you have to say.

561
00:33:17,450 --> 00:33:19,770
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it was always as high by the way,

562
00:33:20,810 --> 00:33:22,970
Speaker 5: say hi to you so nice. I told her i'd

563
00:33:22,970 --> 00:33:25,570
Speaker 5: be talking to you. And how is Zoe.

564
00:33:26,890 --> 00:33:27,130
Speaker 4: Great?

565
00:33:27,250 --> 00:33:30,450
Speaker 5: I mean, she's you know, she's twenty eight now, oh my,

566
00:33:30,810 --> 00:33:34,490
Speaker 5: and and she's been dating a nice Greek boy since

567
00:33:34,570 --> 00:33:37,170
Speaker 5: then more or less. You're kidding, No, I'm not kidding.

568
00:33:37,330 --> 00:33:40,690
Speaker 5: And he's great, he's awesome. She didn't move far from home.

569
00:33:40,930 --> 00:33:44,650
Speaker 5: She has like a great job, and I was sure

570
00:33:44,690 --> 00:33:46,610
Speaker 5: she would move to Montreal like all her friends did

571
00:33:46,650 --> 00:33:48,930
Speaker 5: and everybody moved to Montreal, but she never did. And

572
00:33:49,130 --> 00:33:52,170
Speaker 5: I admire that because she's really building a strong foundation

573
00:33:52,850 --> 00:33:53,650
Speaker 5: and she's very happy.

574
00:33:53,810 --> 00:33:55,570
Speaker 1: That's wonderful. I'm so glad to hear that.

575
00:33:56,570 --> 00:34:00,570
Speaker 5: And Nicholas is like amazing. I think I've told you.

576
00:34:00,570 --> 00:34:03,730
Speaker 5: He's a track athlete, like a star athlete. Really yeah,

577
00:34:04,250 --> 00:34:07,130
Speaker 5: he's graduated in high school. He's yeah, and he's like

578
00:34:07,730 --> 00:34:11,410
Speaker 5: coaching me now, and he's just turned into a really

579
00:34:11,650 --> 00:34:17,210
Speaker 5: amazing like resilient, like deals with all kinds of hardship,

580
00:34:17,370 --> 00:34:20,530
Speaker 5: really maturely like the total opposite of me. Like he like,

581
00:34:20,610 --> 00:34:23,050
Speaker 5: I don't I don't know, he says, he gets spiritual

582
00:34:23,370 --> 00:34:24,890
Speaker 5: guidance from me, But I don't know what that would

583
00:34:24,890 --> 00:34:26,529
Speaker 5: be or if he's just blowing smoke up my ass.

584
00:34:27,010 --> 00:34:28,890
Speaker 1: Old, that's you guys have a special connection.

585
00:34:29,130 --> 00:34:31,170
Speaker 5: But that that's we do. We laugh a lot, like

586
00:34:31,210 --> 00:34:33,090
Speaker 5: we have a good relationship. We have a really good time.

587
00:34:33,250 --> 00:34:36,330
Speaker 1: That's so nice. So how are you? I mean, you

588
00:34:36,410 --> 00:34:39,490
Speaker 1: look well, thanks, so do you?

589
00:34:40,010 --> 00:34:40,130
Speaker 5: Oh?

590
00:34:40,170 --> 00:34:41,890
Speaker 1: Well, you don't have to say that, but you do.

591
00:34:44,530 --> 00:34:47,650
Speaker 5: I mean, basically, I'm okay. I'm a three and three

592
00:34:47,690 --> 00:34:50,650
Speaker 5: and a half months into the stay here, which is

593
00:34:51,010 --> 00:34:51,650
Speaker 5: going to be a year.

594
00:34:51,890 --> 00:34:54,530
Speaker 1: Wait a second, So why don't you explain what here is?

595
00:34:56,170 --> 00:34:56,290
Speaker 4: Right?

596
00:34:56,370 --> 00:34:59,130
Speaker 5: Of course I have to do that. Here is the

597
00:35:00,170 --> 00:35:03,490
Speaker 5: Clear Sky Meditation and Study Center. It's like a Buddhist

598
00:35:03,690 --> 00:35:08,450
Speaker 5: based retreat center in the rocky mountains of Canada, and

599
00:35:08,690 --> 00:35:11,690
Speaker 5: it's where where I live with twelve other people who

600
00:35:11,730 --> 00:35:15,970
Speaker 5: are permanent, well long term residents, and I'm trying it

601
00:35:16,010 --> 00:35:17,410
Speaker 5: out for a year. I'm living in like kind a

602
00:35:17,410 --> 00:35:21,210
Speaker 5: pseudo monastic situation. And there's deer everywhere and they just

603
00:35:21,410 --> 00:35:23,570
Speaker 5: stand like ten feet away and like stare at you

604
00:35:23,650 --> 00:35:28,490
Speaker 5: before they dart off. There's coyotes and like howling like

605
00:35:28,890 --> 00:35:32,490
Speaker 5: thirty feet from the building at night. It's really beautiful.

606
00:35:33,050 --> 00:35:37,850
Speaker 5: It's tough. It's tough here, it's tiring, it's not for everybody.

607
00:35:38,090 --> 00:35:41,730
Speaker 1: Could you just explain a little about how you found

608
00:35:41,770 --> 00:35:42,610
Speaker 1: out about this place.

609
00:35:43,250 --> 00:35:46,170
Speaker 5: Yeah, I owe this to my former mother in law,

610
00:35:46,290 --> 00:35:49,650
Speaker 5: Natalie's mom. Actually, just a couple of years into my

611
00:35:49,730 --> 00:35:51,850
Speaker 5: relationship with Natalie, I was looking for a place to

612
00:35:51,970 --> 00:35:55,610
Speaker 5: meditate and she picked up a flyer from this place

613
00:35:55,690 --> 00:35:57,969
Speaker 5: she used to go to yoga and said, this guy

614
00:35:58,050 --> 00:36:00,930
Speaker 5: is supposed to be good. And then when I showed up,

615
00:36:01,850 --> 00:36:07,130
Speaker 5: I realized, oh, this is traditional like religious Buddhism. And

616
00:36:07,290 --> 00:36:10,730
Speaker 5: my first reaction was I I no, I don't want

617
00:36:10,850 --> 00:36:12,690
Speaker 5: I didn't I came to the wrong place. This is

618
00:36:12,770 --> 00:36:16,410
Speaker 5: not this is not way. I don't think so, basically.

619
00:36:17,490 --> 00:36:21,650
Speaker 5: But he was a very down to or a teacher,

620
00:36:21,770 --> 00:36:24,009
Speaker 5: and he just talked and made a lot of sense

621
00:36:24,050 --> 00:36:26,450
Speaker 5: to me, and I connected really really quickly with them.

622
00:36:26,490 --> 00:36:30,330
Speaker 1: And so, what what is the path that you're that

623
00:36:30,490 --> 00:36:33,050
Speaker 1: you're on right now? You're thinking you're staying there for

624
00:36:33,170 --> 00:36:35,930
Speaker 1: a year, but that is in service to possibly staying

625
00:36:35,970 --> 00:36:36,410
Speaker 1: there forever.

626
00:36:37,810 --> 00:36:40,690
Speaker 5: Possibly anything is possible right now, like at this moment

627
00:36:40,730 --> 00:36:43,690
Speaker 5: in time, anything is possible. I don't know what I'm

628
00:36:43,730 --> 00:36:49,450
Speaker 5: going to do and you're comfortable, Well not really, but yes. Also,

629
00:36:49,650 --> 00:36:51,170
Speaker 5: I mean I don't know what choice to I have, Like,

630
00:36:51,250 --> 00:36:55,610
Speaker 5: I don't want to live in Montreal. When I started

631
00:36:55,650 --> 00:36:57,170
Speaker 5: taking care of my mom when she got.

632
00:36:57,090 --> 00:37:01,090
Speaker 1: Sick, we should say that. Yeah, in the time since

633
00:37:03,090 --> 00:37:08,330
Speaker 1: since the episode, your mother has passed away. Yeah, and

634
00:37:08,570 --> 00:37:13,810
Speaker 1: that sort of both freed you and kind of untethered

635
00:37:13,850 --> 00:37:16,050
Speaker 1: you from from the city from Montreal.

636
00:37:17,090 --> 00:37:21,730
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, So my mom I was diagnosed with

637
00:37:21,810 --> 00:37:27,250
Speaker 5: dementia right before COVID and it was it was horrifying.

638
00:37:27,450 --> 00:37:29,970
Speaker 5: The onset was horrifying because you don't know what it means.

639
00:37:30,050 --> 00:37:32,050
Speaker 5: You don't know what it's going to mean to take

640
00:37:32,090 --> 00:37:34,370
Speaker 5: care of somebody who's demented. You have the worst I

641
00:37:34,450 --> 00:37:36,850
Speaker 5: had the worst kind of ideas in my head, but

642
00:37:37,130 --> 00:37:42,969
Speaker 5: it turned out to be. Yeah, my stint as a parent.

643
00:37:43,130 --> 00:37:44,730
Speaker 5: You know, the closest I'm ever going to get to

644
00:37:44,810 --> 00:37:47,450
Speaker 5: being a parent is I think it's taking care of

645
00:37:47,530 --> 00:37:50,770
Speaker 5: my mom for a few years while she was unable

646
00:37:50,810 --> 00:37:56,890
Speaker 5: to take care of herself. And it also brought my

647
00:37:57,010 --> 00:38:02,770
Speaker 5: relationship with her to a very paradoxically very good clothes

648
00:38:03,370 --> 00:38:05,610
Speaker 5: because we got so close, and also because there was

649
00:38:05,690 --> 00:38:09,890
Speaker 5: this cognitive opening where she wouldn't recognized me a lot

650
00:38:09,930 --> 00:38:12,410
Speaker 5: of the time, and so we were like strangers, so

651
00:38:12,650 --> 00:38:15,450
Speaker 5: there was a different quality to our interactions. It was

652
00:38:15,490 --> 00:38:19,090
Speaker 5: a like a freshness or a kind of openness at times,

653
00:38:19,170 --> 00:38:20,330
Speaker 5: which was really amazing.

654
00:38:20,490 --> 00:38:21,770
Speaker 1: That's a nice way to see it.

655
00:38:21,970 --> 00:38:27,770
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I drew a lot of strike from that.

656
00:38:27,890 --> 00:38:34,370
Speaker 5: It was just a freedom. And by the end, I mean,

657
00:38:34,530 --> 00:38:36,770
Speaker 5: it's weird taking care of somebody who's going to die

658
00:38:36,930 --> 00:38:38,810
Speaker 5: as opposed to growing up to be, you know, an

659
00:38:38,810 --> 00:38:40,410
Speaker 5: adult does kind of go to school and have a

660
00:38:40,450 --> 00:38:46,850
Speaker 5: whole life. It's weird. There's a strangeness to that. But

661
00:38:47,090 --> 00:38:50,290
Speaker 5: in a way, I feel like I growed up, like

662
00:38:50,370 --> 00:38:56,770
Speaker 5: I became. I finally became an adult. But I don't

663
00:38:56,850 --> 00:39:00,010
Speaker 5: know what I'm going to do in the long term,

664
00:39:00,890 --> 00:39:04,010
Speaker 5: because it's I'm still adjusting just to being like a

665
00:39:04,050 --> 00:39:05,890
Speaker 5: middle aged person and what that means, Like I'm not

666
00:39:05,930 --> 00:39:07,810
Speaker 5: even sure. Like I think I'm starting to realize what

667
00:39:07,930 --> 00:39:12,050
Speaker 5: that means. Now, what does that mean to you? What

668
00:39:12,130 --> 00:39:14,890
Speaker 5: does it mean to me? It means the time is

669
00:39:14,970 --> 00:39:17,530
Speaker 5: running out, Like really, like I'm really starting to get

670
00:39:17,530 --> 00:39:19,650
Speaker 5: a sense of like you're you're on the downslope, like

671
00:39:20,450 --> 00:39:23,410
Speaker 5: things pick up speed as opposed to Oh God, life

672
00:39:23,490 --> 00:39:26,050
Speaker 5: is so hard because you're going up, but you're still

673
00:39:26,050 --> 00:39:27,890
Speaker 5: on the upslope right now. It's like no things are

674
00:39:27,970 --> 00:39:32,290
Speaker 5: getting work, things are My body is is. There's a

675
00:39:32,330 --> 00:39:34,330
Speaker 5: lot of body issues in the last couple of years.

676
00:39:34,450 --> 00:39:36,410
Speaker 5: But then in the bigger picture is like where do

677
00:39:36,490 --> 00:39:38,690
Speaker 5: I want to live? Who do I want to be near,

678
00:39:38,730 --> 00:39:40,410
Speaker 5: what do I want to do? These questions are all

679
00:39:40,490 --> 00:39:42,530
Speaker 5: floating up in the air because I've walked away from

680
00:39:43,730 --> 00:39:47,290
Speaker 5: any kind of you know, structure. I don't have a family.

681
00:39:47,450 --> 00:39:48,930
Speaker 5: I don't have I keep coming back to that I

682
00:39:49,010 --> 00:39:54,690
Speaker 5: don't have Like my my oldest and dearest friends are

683
00:39:56,450 --> 00:39:58,130
Speaker 5: scattered all over the place. They're not going to live

684
00:39:58,170 --> 00:40:01,090
Speaker 5: with me. You know, you guys aren't going to be,

685
00:40:01,170 --> 00:40:03,690
Speaker 5: you know, coming up the street with meatball sandwiches. When

686
00:40:03,730 --> 00:40:09,770
Speaker 5: I'm demented, Howard might Howard might be you know, he'll

687
00:40:09,810 --> 00:40:12,730
Speaker 5: be demented first. I don't know. I don't know, God forbid.

688
00:40:12,930 --> 00:40:15,250
Speaker 5: So it's like and it's not like, oh, I'm setting

689
00:40:15,330 --> 00:40:17,450
Speaker 5: up a nice little hospice for myself so that I,

690
00:40:17,490 --> 00:40:18,850
Speaker 5: you know, I have nice people to take care of

691
00:40:18,930 --> 00:40:21,770
Speaker 5: me like, I don't, I don't care what happens. Throw

692
00:40:21,850 --> 00:40:25,090
Speaker 5: me off a cliff, fill me with some yogurt. No,

693
00:40:25,210 --> 00:40:26,250
Speaker 5: I mean you called Jackie.

694
00:40:26,610 --> 00:40:30,930
Speaker 1: You want all the regular things. It's it's just you're

695
00:40:30,970 --> 00:40:36,250
Speaker 1: taking a rather unconventional route to get to those things.

696
00:40:37,450 --> 00:40:44,049
Speaker 5: Yeah. I think it has to do with with knowing

697
00:40:44,090 --> 00:40:47,930
Speaker 5: what you're gonna do, right, So, like if you're not

698
00:40:48,530 --> 00:40:53,210
Speaker 5: sure that there's a container for for you in life,

699
00:40:53,330 --> 00:40:55,210
Speaker 5: like whether there's a job or it's a family, or

700
00:40:56,130 --> 00:40:59,210
Speaker 5: like a very particular career track which is very involving,

701
00:40:59,250 --> 00:41:03,050
Speaker 5: which has steps which you can follow, Like you're kind

702
00:41:03,090 --> 00:41:06,770
Speaker 5: of free floating, You're you're you're in free fall, and

703
00:41:06,890 --> 00:41:09,489
Speaker 5: now it's like kindergarten all over again, like what next?

704
00:41:09,530 --> 00:41:12,530
Speaker 5: What's next? And like where's my money? Like I'm like,

705
00:41:12,570 --> 00:41:14,410
Speaker 5: what the fuck am I doing? What am I doing here?

706
00:41:14,570 --> 00:41:16,250
Speaker 5: Like not knowing? Really not knowing?

707
00:41:16,650 --> 00:41:19,010
Speaker 1: But is that exciting also at all?

708
00:41:19,930 --> 00:41:20,130
Speaker 4: Yeah?

709
00:41:20,170 --> 00:41:21,890
Speaker 5: It is, It's very exciting. That's good.

710
00:41:22,410 --> 00:41:27,170
Speaker 1: Yea, Tony, I'm so sorry. I don't have to run off.

711
00:41:27,250 --> 00:41:29,170
Speaker 1: I'm I'm looking at the time. I could talk to

712
00:41:29,170 --> 00:41:32,090
Speaker 1: you all night, but I'm supposed to take Augie. He's

713
00:41:32,130 --> 00:41:33,250
Speaker 1: got a basketball game.

714
00:41:34,130 --> 00:41:37,410
Speaker 5: Give my love to AUGI and Emily and and tell

715
00:41:37,490 --> 00:41:38,930
Speaker 5: him I say hi and we'll.

716
00:41:38,770 --> 00:41:40,770
Speaker 1: Talk so him, I will, I will Man good to

717
00:41:40,850 --> 00:41:42,450
Speaker 1: see you. Okay, you be well.

718
00:41:42,810 --> 00:41:44,730
Speaker 5: Okay bye for now, bye bye.

719
00:41:50,810 --> 00:41:53,650
Speaker 1: Thanks to everyone who helped put the episode together, and

720
00:41:54,170 --> 00:41:58,490
Speaker 1: we'll be back once again with another exciting update in

721
00:41:58,610 --> 00:42:03,650
Speaker 1: two weeks. Also, we're starting a free newsletter. I know

722
00:42:03,770 --> 00:42:07,970
Speaker 1: what you're thinking. You're thinking finally, Yes, that's right, not

723
00:42:08,210 --> 00:42:12,050
Speaker 1: just audio, but now in the form of news and

724
00:42:12,210 --> 00:42:15,170
Speaker 1: a letter sent directly to your inbox. And who knows,

725
00:42:15,770 --> 00:42:19,610
Speaker 1: maybe you'll even hear from a producer or to Khalila Holt.

726
00:42:20,130 --> 00:42:21,410
Speaker 2: Yeah, you probably will.

727
00:42:21,570 --> 00:42:23,930
Speaker 1: We'll let you know when new episodes are coming out,

728
00:42:24,250 --> 00:42:27,090
Speaker 1: and we'll send out some other fun stuff as well,

729
00:42:27,410 --> 00:42:29,050
Speaker 1: like word puzzles.

730
00:42:30,290 --> 00:42:33,050
Speaker 2: I'll be you're not going to puzzles, well.

731
00:42:32,930 --> 00:42:36,810
Speaker 1: We don't know yet. We might make crossord puzzles, word jumbles.

732
00:42:37,210 --> 00:42:40,330
Speaker 1: We want to share everything that we can, and you

733
00:42:40,370 --> 00:42:43,530
Speaker 1: can sign up for that at patreon dot com. Slash

734
00:42:43,890 --> 00:42:44,410
Speaker 1: Heavyweight