Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, Due to the nature of today's episode, we
Speaker 1: are gonna change our format a bit. We're only able
Speaker 1: to be here with you every week because we have
Speaker 1: the support of our incredible sponsors, like the folks we
Speaker 1: talk about weekly who come here to support this podcast.
Speaker 1: But this week, as a team, we've chosen not to
Speaker 1: air ads. It doesn't feel right for this episode of
Speaker 1: Drama Queens. So when we start discussing this episode, we're
Speaker 1: all just going to stay in it with you. It
Speaker 1: feels like a hard one to take breaks on, and
Speaker 1: we're very grateful to all of our sponsors for giving
Speaker 1: us permission to air this episode uninterrupted, and we love you.
Speaker 1: This episode deals with the topics of depression and suicide.
Speaker 1: If you are someone you know is suffering, please call
Speaker 1: the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by dialing eight. Hey, guys,
Speaker 1: we're not even gonna try to hide the emotions in
Speaker 1: this one. Um This week, we're watching season three, episode
Speaker 1: sixteen with tired eyes, tired minds, tired souls. We slept.
Speaker 1: You might remember that this aired March one of two
Speaker 1: thousand six and three. Sixteen is the episode where a
Speaker 1: regular school day at tree Hill High turns incredibly dangerous
Speaker 1: and into a tragedy because Jimmy Edwards brings a gun
Speaker 1: to school and we're all a mess. And we've been
Speaker 1: reading a lot of your messages and I think what's
Speaker 1: struck the three of us so much is that a
Speaker 1: lot of you have written about how you've rewatched this
Speaker 1: show so many times before we started our podcast, and
Speaker 1: that very often you all skipped this episode. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I kind of wish we could have skipped this episode.
Speaker 1: Glad we're going to talk about it. I am too,
Speaker 1: first and foremost. I love you guys, And yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: having trouble like making eye contact because I just need to.
Speaker 1: I don't want to do it. So um, here's what
Speaker 1: I want to say though, before we bring in our
Speaker 1: guests today, because they're really lucky that we have a
Speaker 1: fabulous guests today. We'll bring them in very soon. Um.
Speaker 1: As the mother of a boy, m hm, this is
Speaker 1: something that has troubled me since the moment he was born.
Speaker 1: And years after we shot this episode, in two thousand ten,
Speaker 1: a book came out called Columbine, and it was written
Speaker 1: by one of the first journalists who arrived on that scene.
Speaker 1: He helped perpetuate the myth that it was the loners
Speaker 1: and the kids that were bullied, that we're committing these crimes.
Speaker 1: And then he spent the last the ten years after
Speaker 1: that undoing it as he learned more about the voice
Speaker 1: that that did Columbine. And as a mother, it was
Speaker 1: really important to me to learn more about that kind
Speaker 1: of anger. Um, that kind of behavior with the warning
Speaker 1: signs are And so we as the first generation of
Speaker 1: people who lived through Columbine. I was a sophie and
Speaker 1: I were juniors when it happened. Joy, you were senior.
Speaker 1: You know. It happened while we were in high school,
Speaker 1: and UM, I think it's safe to say it affected
Speaker 1: all of us a lot. And now we're parents, and
Speaker 1: what are we going to do about it? You know?
Speaker 1: That's what's really um heavy, is that I think when
Speaker 1: we were teenagers, we thought the grown ups would fix it,
Speaker 1: and here we are the grown ups and we're still
Speaker 1: dealing with it. And I wish we'd known when we
Speaker 1: filmed this episode what we have come to know about
Speaker 1: how these situations get built up. UM. But I think
Speaker 1: the reactions the same, you know, I don't. I think
Speaker 1: we've learned a lot about the kinds of people who
Speaker 1: who perpetrate these crimes. It's not the Trench Code mafia.
Speaker 1: It's not my friends who were the goth kids. It's
Speaker 1: not even the bullied kids. It's the radicalized, misogynistic kids
Speaker 1: who are engaged in forms of domestic violence. Um, there
Speaker 1: are red flags. And so Colin did a wonderful job
Speaker 1: with with the information we had at the time. Um,
Speaker 1: he did such a beautiful job with what was written.
Speaker 1: And he the human as the person suffering, and it's
Speaker 1: it's an incredible skill as a performer to play someone
Speaker 1: who could be put in the category of villain at
Speaker 1: a level like this. You know, someone who shoots up
Speaker 1: a school and I don't know if it was happenstance
Speaker 1: are intentional that they did make him such a different character,
Speaker 1: you know, they made him a kid with a handgun
Speaker 1: who fired a warning shot. They made him that he
Speaker 1: isn't one of the kids who does this. And you're right,
Speaker 1: it's incredibly important that as we have all the information
Speaker 1: we have, we talk about, you know, the grooming by
Speaker 1: violent extremist groups of young boys in this country online,
Speaker 1: and that we didn't know any of that then, that
Speaker 1: didn't that didn't exist in our awareness then, and there
Speaker 1: is a part of me that wonders if, and I'm
Speaker 1: only realizing I wish we could ask the writers in
Speaker 1: this moment, if if for some of the reasons or
Speaker 1: some of the understanding that we didn't know why kids
Speaker 1: were carrying assault rifles in the high schools, is that
Speaker 1: why they wrote Jimmy to be different? Is that why
Speaker 1: they wrote this differently? Is that why they humanized every
Speaker 1: single person in that tutor center in the way that
Speaker 1: they did. I don't know the answers, but um, I
Speaker 1: do think to your point, Oh, it's incredibly important that
Speaker 1: we we get clear on what we know about how
Speaker 1: this happens while we also go through the emotions of
Speaker 1: experiencing something like this together. That was rough, It was
Speaker 1: so hard to watch, and so I was so blown
Speaker 1: away by Colin's performance. Um that moment when he fired
Speaker 1: the first shot and his eyes went wide, he was
Speaker 1: just so shocked his own behavior, what he was keeping.
Speaker 1: He was scared, but he was scared. But it's like
Speaker 1: once you once you make that choice, any choice in
Speaker 1: life that is um wrong, but you do it, and
Speaker 1: then you have to decide whether you're going to double
Speaker 1: down or quickly say WHOA, this is wrong. I'm I'm
Speaker 1: backing out, and very rarely, I think too people back out.
Speaker 1: Um and then you know, to watch it all just
Speaker 1: continue to snowball down. As he continued to fall down
Speaker 1: into this pit of despair, it was hard. Do you
Speaker 1: guys remember when we got the script? Like Joy, you
Speaker 1: were the one in the classroom with Jimmy, Do you
Speaker 1: remember getting the script for this? I don't remember getting
Speaker 1: the script. I wish I did. I just remember being
Speaker 1: really mad because I did not want to do this.
Speaker 1: Like I've always really believed in the power of words
Speaker 1: and the power of suggestion, and the more you talk
Speaker 1: about something, the more it happens. And that was my
Speaker 1: mindset in my early twenties, like why are we even
Speaker 1: bringing this up? Why are we planting this scene? I mean,
Speaker 1: here we are, almost twenty years later, and the ship
Speaker 1: just keeps happening no matter how much we talk about it.
Speaker 1: I remember getting the script, and I remember they printed
Speaker 1: it all on red pages so it couldn't be copied
Speaker 1: or leaked or anything. And you know, hill to your
Speaker 1: point about Columbine, I like I had to go be
Speaker 1: by myself for a while after I read this because
Speaker 1: it took me back to junior year and Mr. Hollman's
Speaker 1: science class. One of my best friends from growing up
Speaker 1: lived in Colorado starting in high school and for the
Speaker 1: first I think it was like an hour and we
Speaker 1: heard there was a school shooting in Colorado. Nobody, nobody
Speaker 1: knew where or at least we couldn't get information in
Speaker 1: our class, like nobody had iPhones, you couldn't. And we
Speaker 1: were teenagers and it's not like they put the news
Speaker 1: on in school and we were just waiting. And I
Speaker 1: remember thinking like, what if it's her school? And this
Speaker 1: script really brought that home, like, oh, this this We
Speaker 1: now are tasked with representing the people who say today
Speaker 1: it's my school, and it's it was hard. I mean,
Speaker 1: this this stuff is it's hard to know. You know.
Speaker 1: They said, well, if we're going to go out, let's
Speaker 1: let's tell the truest story we know. And there's the
Speaker 1: reality of why are we going to put this on TV?
Speaker 1: And there's there's so many things that are true at
Speaker 1: the same time. We need to examine this and are
Speaker 1: we setting are we putting this in someone's mind and
Speaker 1: are we going to traumatize people or are we going
Speaker 1: to educate people or it's so big and it felt
Speaker 1: like an education to me. I thought it was so
Speaker 1: beautifully done. I mean the things that were said, mouth
Speaker 1: is Mouth's speech beautiful, incredible. Um, the whole conversation was
Speaker 1: had from all angles, and I loved that that they
Speaker 1: everyone addressed all of their feelings and fears and it
Speaker 1: was just all laid out in the open. And um,
Speaker 1: I thought it was done really, really well. And that's
Speaker 1: really on Colin. I mean, he grounded this episode. I
Speaker 1: can't imagine being handed this script as him. Yeah, bring
Speaker 1: him in. Where's our friend? Guys, were so lucky that
Speaker 1: Colin is joining us today. There's no way we could
Speaker 1: have this conversation without him. Um, So Colin Fickis is
Speaker 1: here to join us our very own Jimmy Edwards, the
Speaker 1: most beloved bad guy in the history of One Tree Home.
Speaker 1: He's not a bad kid. He's not a bad kid.
Speaker 1: He's a good kid. I miss you. I'm the waves
Speaker 1: in Zu Colin. You look great. It's great to see
Speaker 1: you're the one. You're absolutely the fun one. And we
Speaker 1: have to talk about dark with you, and that that's hard.
Speaker 1: So we can do it. We can do it. We
Speaker 1: can do hard things right right. Where are you right now?
Speaker 1: Are you in the city, in the city, Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: in We have an apartment in the city, and then
Speaker 1: I am moving up state from my job. You are
Speaker 1: house yester day, So lots of things happening. Good to
Speaker 1: see you all, see you. Um, Colin, did you watch
Speaker 1: the episode or was it too hard to? I did,
Speaker 1: but I also fast forwarded song because I was just like,
Speaker 1: it's yeah, I think about the Paul Thomas Anderson quote
Speaker 1: from Magnolia a lot like you maybe through with the past,
Speaker 1: but the past is not through with you. I mean
Speaker 1: that's fairly relevant for what we're doing here. But um,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, it's hard to watch, very hard
Speaker 1: to watch. Well, so you were amazing. Let's talk about
Speaker 1: your experience on the show though, because I think that
Speaker 1: did play a part in kind of how this all
Speaker 1: came full circle. Um. You know, we've definitely talked about
Speaker 1: things that have gone on behind the scenes on One
Speaker 1: Tree Hill, and I know that you were not treated
Speaker 1: well behind the scenes. Um yeah, well yeah, and I
Speaker 1: don't want to talk negatively, but yeah, I mean it
Speaker 1: wasn't it wasn't the most ideal thing that happened. Um,
Speaker 1: I know we have a limited amount of time, but um,
Speaker 1: I wanted to audition in l A. I've been living
Speaker 1: in l A for several years already. I lived in
Speaker 1: New York for three years. Um, and so I kind
Speaker 1: of branched out from North Carolina. I'm originally from Raleigh,
Speaker 1: North Carolina, and so growing up I would go to
Speaker 1: drive two hours to Limingtoln for auditions. I knew Lee
Speaker 1: Norris as a kid. We would audition together sometimes, so
Speaker 1: we kind of already had that relationship. And I know
Speaker 1: they were already eyeing him for the for the role
Speaker 1: of Mouth, and I was like, hey, guys, I'd love
Speaker 1: to be a part of it. Can I audition in
Speaker 1: l A? Because I had other friends audition in l A?
Speaker 1: And they were like, this is a local hire. And
Speaker 1: then I was like, well, you know, can I please
Speaker 1: audition in l A? And um, you know I live
Speaker 1: here and I think that might be tough to do.
Speaker 1: And then um, they finally granted me an audition in
Speaker 1: l A. And um, They're like Nope, nope, not right
Speaker 1: for the part. And then um, thinking and and associates,
Speaker 1: the casting agents in North Carolina were huge champions of
Speaker 1: mine and they're amazing and they're like, we prom to
Speaker 1: see you. He's right, he knows Lee. Um, just you know,
Speaker 1: give him another chance. And so then on my own time,
Speaker 1: I went to North Carolina and did the exact same
Speaker 1: audition I did in the room in l A. And
Speaker 1: they're like, you got the job, kid, and uh and
Speaker 1: and then I ended up having you know, to you know,
Speaker 1: get myself to North Carolina. I was paying for an
Speaker 1: apartment in North Carolina. I was also at my place
Speaker 1: in l A. And so what happened is I ended
Speaker 1: up leaving the show because I couldn't afford to stay. Um.
Speaker 1: And I noticed in the second and third episode, as
Speaker 1: scripts were you know, getting revised, we were getting or
Speaker 1: at least my part was getting smaller and smaller and smaller,
Speaker 1: and working one day at for every two weeks or
Speaker 1: whatever it was. I couldn't make it work. Um. And
Speaker 1: so I didn't want to leave, but um, you know,
Speaker 1: it was hard. And then you have the creator saying
Speaker 1: things like the studio they only want the pretty people,
Speaker 1: and I'm really trying to fight for you all. And
Speaker 1: then I felt bad for leaving because I knew he
Speaker 1: was trying to fight and fight for me to stay,
Speaker 1: and um, so it was difficult and I didn't want
Speaker 1: to leave. But also in hindsight, I mean, it's the
Speaker 1: most amazing thing because I always wanted to be this
Speaker 1: dramatic actor. I wanted to be like the next Philip
Speaker 1: stem More Hoffman. That was like my dream, and had
Speaker 1: done some indie movies and like I wanted to do
Speaker 1: like drama and so to get to come back and
Speaker 1: do this was so much fun, as hard as it was,
Speaker 1: but you know, so like, yeah, that was that was well,
Speaker 1: it feels meta. It feels like Jimmy Edward was left
Speaker 1: behind by the group in season one only to like
Speaker 1: become this big deal in our season three storyline and
Speaker 1: behind the scenes, our show loved taking things that were
Speaker 1: happening in real life and kind of utilizing them on screen.
Speaker 1: And so it you know, that was that was your
Speaker 1: story and Jimmy story of we're going to leave you behind,
Speaker 1: but then we're gonna bring you back in like huge fashion. Um, Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: how did they know you were such a good dramatic actor,
Speaker 1: Because Colin, there's no one else could have done this.
Speaker 1: They trusted you with this entire episode which was so.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was all resting on you. If you
Speaker 1: didn't pull that off, it wouldn't have worked. I don't
Speaker 1: know where that trust came from. I really don't, because
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think how I've done anything at that point,
Speaker 1: um where they would have seen that, I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: I guess they took a big chance on me. And
Speaker 1: it's so funny too how it happened. My friend kill
Speaker 1: Venture was at a bar in l A and met
Speaker 1: one of the writers, I think, and she calls me
Speaker 1: and she's like, I met this dude that's a writer
Speaker 1: on Winter Hill. He says, you're gonna be back on
Speaker 1: the show, and I was like, I haven't heard anything.
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't think so. I don't even
Speaker 1: ended well when I left. And then a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks later, I got a call and the creator wanted
Speaker 1: to have me in the office at the Warner Brothers lot.
Speaker 1: And as I'm walking through the offices, I see the
Speaker 1: white boards of all the story progression and I see
Speaker 1: Jimmy Edwards, Jimmy Edwards, and I'm like, what is happened
Speaker 1: the idea? And I obviously was like absolutely so, because yeah,
Speaker 1: actors want to work, and um, you know I wanted
Speaker 1: to do the dramatic things as well. Um, so it
Speaker 1: worked out. How how did you begin to prepare for
Speaker 1: something like this, because you know we've all been talking
Speaker 1: about everything shifted so dramatically, you know in the late
Speaker 1: nineties when Columbine happened. I mean it literally it changed
Speaker 1: all of us, It changed our country. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I just think, at least for me, had
Speaker 1: I been in your position receiving that script, I know
Speaker 1: I would have panicked. You know this, this is big?
Speaker 1: So how do you begin to even make sense of it?
Speaker 1: Because watching it back, we watched you so closely, and
Speaker 1: every choice you made, every everything you put under, the
Speaker 1: words and and the sensitivity and the both and the
Speaker 1: rage and the shame and the fear. It's it's just
Speaker 1: so present, alive on screen and on your face. And
Speaker 1: maybe it's a defense mechanism because the emotional stuff makes
Speaker 1: me so hysterically when we talk about it. So I'm like,
Speaker 1: talk to me about true craft truly? How How did
Speaker 1: how did you begin to figure out how to make
Speaker 1: this true? For Jimmy, Um, it was less about what
Speaker 1: he does and more about what he feels. I like,
Speaker 1: all I could think about was what would get someone
Speaker 1: to get to this what would call someone to get
Speaker 1: to this place? Um? And so I started there. Um.
Speaker 1: And then obviously once I got the script, which everyone
Speaker 1: else had read the damn thing before I got it.
Speaker 1: Really it was days. I had days, what days, I
Speaker 1: think maybe five five days to start, you know, going.
Speaker 1: And I remember Hillary, I passed you at base camp
Speaker 1: and now You're like, have you read it? You know?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, I have, didn't you know? It's ready?
Speaker 1: And um, So I literally locked myself in a hotel
Speaker 1: room and God bless my mom who would just come
Speaker 1: with me as she sat with me in that hotel
Speaker 1: room and ran those scenes non stop. That's all I did.
Speaker 1: I just stayed within that hotel room for several days
Speaker 1: and learned it. And you know, I grew up doing theaters,
Speaker 1: so it was like I just sat there and just
Speaker 1: absorbed it all and was trying to just find all
Speaker 1: of the things in the script. And um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you think about all the times we've all
Speaker 1: felt like him, We've all felt excluded or not right
Speaker 1: or um, you know, sad, lonely. I mean, all the
Speaker 1: descriptive words you can think of. We all go through phases.
Speaker 1: I think his obviously more intense. Um. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean that's that's kind of how I started. If that
Speaker 1: makes I don't know, I'm rambling. I remember being in
Speaker 1: that room with you and that you were that we
Speaker 1: were all so impressed with how I mean you knew
Speaker 1: every word, you knew it, you knew it all. I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to waste time. And I know when
Speaker 1: a crew members one in the morning and they're wanting
Speaker 1: to go home and sleep, I was like, I'm going
Speaker 1: to know all of these loves. I mean, we all
Speaker 1: had the patience, we had, we all were ready to
Speaker 1: for I think none none of us knew really what
Speaker 1: to expect when we walked in that day, I mean
Speaker 1: other than what was on the page. But um, everyone
Speaker 1: was ready. I mean everyone was so everyone showed up
Speaker 1: and joy I loved being in that tutor was the
Speaker 1: tutor room with with you because I just remember locking
Speaker 1: in with you a lot during that and so it
Speaker 1: was nice because those were long days. I remember losing
Speaker 1: that voice because we were we were somewhat shooting in order,
Speaker 1: and I learned so much as an actor doing it
Speaker 1: because I was like, don't you know, don't blow it
Speaker 1: all in the first take. You got to kind of
Speaker 1: have reserves and say, you know, you're even contemplating. I
Speaker 1: lost my voice. They were gonna give me like a
Speaker 1: shot in my neck or something that was gonna like
Speaker 1: get my voice. My gosh, wait, I remember I remember
Speaker 1: hearing something about this team and then I was taking
Speaker 1: like Sarah flu to try to get my voice better.
Speaker 1: Even this is t m I, but I threw up
Speaker 1: the very opening scene with the cigarette I guess from
Speaker 1: it was early in the morning when we were shooting it,
Speaker 1: and that the therapy flu or whatever. I like. I
Speaker 1: totally calling this sounds a miserable experience. You know, normally
Speaker 1: on set you have the levity, you have the relief
Speaker 1: of the levity between scenes and the you know, just
Speaker 1: kind of hanging around shooting the ship thing. But that
Speaker 1: was not None of us had that for this episode
Speaker 1: at all. There was no relief. It was relentless, and
Speaker 1: I think it worked for us performance wise, but it
Speaker 1: was it was exhausting, and I'm so glad that we
Speaker 1: all had each other and that, you know, a that
Speaker 1: you were so prepared and so ready and vulnerable and
Speaker 1: ready to do you know, whatever it took, and it
Speaker 1: really set an example for for everybody to to show
Speaker 1: up in this way and just everyone. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: acting is not just one person, it's the whole the
Speaker 1: whole time. Speaking of I will say I was so
Speaker 1: amazed that Sophia, you and Lee came back to set.
Speaker 1: I think, Hillary, you're already there, and so like from
Speaker 1: the last shot, I just have to say it, like
Speaker 1: y'all came back and it was like, it was so amazing. Joy.
Speaker 1: You were probably exhausted and because many crazy scenes, but
Speaker 1: I just remember that and it's it really is those
Speaker 1: little things that like really make it all count. But
Speaker 1: I was going to quickly say when we rehearsed the
Speaker 1: I wore a bulletproof vest and there was a blank
Speaker 1: in the gun and we actually apparently from what I heard,
Speaker 1: the props master whoever it was, told me that we
Speaker 1: rehearsed that on the same sale stage that Brendan Lee
Speaker 1: was shot. And really, yeah, it was super creepy. It
Speaker 1: was like really heavy. And then I don't know if
Speaker 1: you've ever done that in a scene, but I couldn't sleep.
Speaker 1: I kept thinking I was dead that night, Like I
Speaker 1: was choking. It was so crazy. And I'm not a
Speaker 1: method actor by any means, but like it was, it
Speaker 1: was a mind trip for sure, that it was just
Speaker 1: so intense where you went and in the in that
Speaker 1: last scene. I remember watching it at the time coming back,
Speaker 1: and I remember watching it when it aired, and and
Speaker 1: even watching it today, it's like I have such visceral
Speaker 1: sense memory of um, what it felt like like watching
Speaker 1: the way that you were beating your chest. Did this
Speaker 1: like it broke my heart and again just what you
Speaker 1: brought to it. There was something really incredible, even as
Speaker 1: a viewer about being in that tutor center with you all,
Speaker 1: because they gave us our core team, and then they
Speaker 1: gave us the newer characters, you know, Rachel being the
Speaker 1: newest sort of main person, and then the jock kid
Speaker 1: whose mom calls an abbey you who's a diabetic. Such
Speaker 1: a beautiful actor, and and everyone's experiences are represented. Everyone
Speaker 1: gets to voice how they might be a stereotype, that
Speaker 1: they also have their own experience. Nobody sees. And I
Speaker 1: remember while we watched it what minutes ago now thinking wow,
Speaker 1: they did this thing where everyone's telling the truth even
Speaker 1: though their truths are different, and and you just brought
Speaker 1: it over and over and over again, and yeah, I
Speaker 1: even then it it felt like something so important to witness,
Speaker 1: and it feels so important too to witness it again.
Speaker 1: And I'm just and why is it happening? Why does
Speaker 1: it still happen? That is the thing that really was
Speaker 1: difficult for me and watching this, because I feel like
Speaker 1: the goal when we made this episode, like what was
Speaker 1: our goal? Let's think about that? Was it too educate
Speaker 1: grown ups are kids. There's a parental advisory at the
Speaker 1: beginning of the episode, and when we first started watching,
Speaker 1: I was struck by that, like, oh, there's a parental advisory, like,
Speaker 1: you know, make sure you watch this with a parent.
Speaker 1: And as I continued to watch the episode, it felt
Speaker 1: more like there shouldn't be a parental advisory to protect
Speaker 1: the kids, Like why why are we placing all this
Speaker 1: blame on the kids. It's not the bullying, it's not
Speaker 1: it's not these things that we blamed it on in
Speaker 1: two thousand six, whenever this aired. We know that the
Speaker 1: factors that lead up to this are different now because
Speaker 1: we have the data, we have the research, we have
Speaker 1: decades of information there'sould have been a parental like mandatory viewing,
Speaker 1: like hey, kids, go get your parents, Go get the
Speaker 1: person in your household the votes, Go get the person
Speaker 1: in your household that's supposed to be watching what you
Speaker 1: do online. You know, Like how I read the discretion. Actually,
Speaker 1: when I saw a parental discretion advised, I thought that
Speaker 1: maybe I read it the wrong way. But my I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, this means that you should be having
Speaker 1: a conversation with your kids about this. That's what they're
Speaker 1: trying to say. Go go pull the grown up into
Speaker 1: the room, because I don't I don't know. Yeah, it's true,
Speaker 1: because parents need. Look, I think it's hard for any
Speaker 1: of us to admit some of the more nefarious things
Speaker 1: in the world. It's very hard to reconcile with the
Speaker 1: fact that there are you know, pro domestic violence and
Speaker 1: white supremacist terrorists, organizations that are grooming boys online. That's
Speaker 1: really hard. Like it's much easier to say, if I
Speaker 1: teach my kid to be nice, maybe this will be different.
Speaker 1: It's it's hard to look at something so large and
Speaker 1: and societal. And interestingly, what I thought the writers did
Speaker 1: very beautifully was they really made you feel for for
Speaker 1: Jimmy and calling. You did that as an actor. You
Speaker 1: made us feel for this person who said all my
Speaker 1: days have been bad, and you realize Rachel's right when
Speaker 1: she says it's just seven d days, and Keith is
Speaker 1: right when he says it gets better when you leave here.
Speaker 1: Like none of the none of those people ever fit in,
Speaker 1: and they will come magic because of it. It's all true,
Speaker 1: and it's true that people need to feel looked out for,
Speaker 1: and and something I'll never forget that really helped me
Speaker 1: see that all of these things can be true. At
Speaker 1: the same time, after the the Parkland shooting at Marjory
Speaker 1: Stone and Doug, this one of the young women, Emma
Speaker 1: who's become, you know, a huge leader in the in
Speaker 1: the movement of kids against violence like this said, don't
Speaker 1: tell me as a young girl it was my responsibility
Speaker 1: to be nicer to my abuser. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: say it again, young lady, And she's not wrong. You
Speaker 1: know you shouldn't put vulnerable people in harm's way, um
Speaker 1: and say, yeah, I know that person is violent and scary,
Speaker 1: but just be even nicer to them. And it's important,
Speaker 1: you know, Joy, you said something a couple of weeks
Speaker 1: ago about how you always encourage your daughter. She sees
Speaker 1: someone who's alone and like, look scared to go say
Speaker 1: hi to them during lunch, and that is so important
Speaker 1: and and also knowing, like something else I talked to
Speaker 1: her about is my mother always taught me as if
Speaker 1: somebody is bullying you, it's because that's happening to them
Speaker 1: at home. And so it's not that you have to
Speaker 1: turn around and in kind you don't retaliate. You don't
Speaker 1: necessarily have to have lunch at them, like not everyone's
Speaker 1: going to be the over yeah, right, but but but
Speaker 1: you could if you if you felt called to do so.
Speaker 1: But um, so it is. It's exactly what you're saying, Sophia.
Speaker 1: It's so beautifully said that so many things can be
Speaker 1: true at the same time, and it's so calm, And
Speaker 1: that's why I feel like these are the conversations we
Speaker 1: need kids to be having with their parents. And he says, kids,
Speaker 1: you want kids to feel safe enough. This is what
Speaker 1: I've actually just learned as a human being. People can't
Speaker 1: help you until you vocalize and ask, oh my god,
Speaker 1: say that again. You really, you really you think it
Speaker 1: in your head and you feel like somehow, but you've
Speaker 1: that the world knows what you need as a person,
Speaker 1: you know, in love and in life and in work
Speaker 1: and whatever. But until you vocalize it and really say
Speaker 1: it like, no one can help you. And so I
Speaker 1: hope it's for kids to be like, I need to
Speaker 1: speak up. This is how I'm feeling good or bad,
Speaker 1: and open dialogue. But also I have to say to
Speaker 1: this relates back to this show and what you ladies
Speaker 1: went through. How many other and I don't want to
Speaker 1: you know, how many other powerful it's not just the creator.
Speaker 1: How many other people were there and hurt things and
Speaker 1: saw things and just yeah, yeah, you know you look
Speaker 1: at Trump as well. How many other white men in
Speaker 1: power could have done something? Yeah, I want to give
Speaker 1: you all the snaps. Well, enablers feel sometimes more dangerous
Speaker 1: than the perpetrator because there's more of them, and enablers
Speaker 1: normalize things and they gaslight you and make you feel like,
Speaker 1: wait a second, I'm hurting? Am I the problem? It's Colin.
Speaker 1: Losing Jimmy in this episode, UM was difficult for me
Speaker 1: because it meant that we lost you, you know. There
Speaker 1: until until Jimmy dies, there was always this hope, like
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Colin's going to come back and be full
Speaker 1: time again. You know, like it wasn't always wanted to
Speaker 1: be on the show. I never wanted to leave. I know,
Speaker 1: you didn't know it, just know that the behind the
Speaker 1: scenes politics was bad. And so to lose you permanently
Speaker 1: after just losing Cheryl Lee permanently like season three is
Speaker 1: just like evil losing you guys. But no, but let's
Speaker 1: talk about what the fallout from this episode was, because
Speaker 1: I remember being very nervous that this was going to
Speaker 1: air for probably very different reasons than you remember that,
Speaker 1: you know, like, how did the world react to you
Speaker 1: in this episode? Um? You know what's funny my sister
Speaker 1: when she she came down for like one of the
Speaker 1: final days, and she was like, a lot of people
Speaker 1: are going to see this, and I, for some dumb reason,
Speaker 1: I guess I was just trying to learn the lines
Speaker 1: in time. I wasn't even thinking about after. I was
Speaker 1: just trying to get to that finish line of like
Speaker 1: being the show up and do my job. And then
Speaker 1: so my sister, Emery Holt had said, you know, this
Speaker 1: is going to be a lot of people are gonna
Speaker 1: see this, and it's it's gonna be crazy. And um,
Speaker 1: all the responses have been amazing. I mean I was
Speaker 1: getting famil for a while from all over the world.
Speaker 1: People were telling me stories of times they almost committed suicide.
Speaker 1: I must see them stop. Um, times they felt lonely
Speaker 1: and they've done all this inner work and like learning.
Speaker 1: You know. Um, it had an impact and I know
Speaker 1: that for sure, and so I know it sounds cliche,
Speaker 1: but the whole thing of if one person is affected,
Speaker 1: and but it is true. And so it's been pretty amazing.
Speaker 1: There was one thing that was hilarious I'll never forget.
Speaker 1: I was like at the coffee being a te leaf
Speaker 1: in l A a couple of months after I guess
Speaker 1: it aired, and I walk up and this girl was like,
Speaker 1: you on on trel you were so funny. But I
Speaker 1: had forgotten that. I guess there was funny stuff in
Speaker 1: the beginning. Yeah, that's what she was referencing. And and
Speaker 1: then everyone's like, you killed Peyton, and I'm like, I
Speaker 1: just shot her in the leg. I didn't kill it.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It was interesting. Yeah, I mean it's
Speaker 1: still even at forty two, it's like people remember it,
Speaker 1: people talk about it. Yeah, It's definitely the top five
Speaker 1: most iconic episodes of our show. I would say in
Speaker 1: the top two or three. You know, it is such
Speaker 1: a game changer. Um, what were you going to say, Joy, Well,
Speaker 1: I was going to say that what you were talking
Speaker 1: about about its having a long lasting impact. And it
Speaker 1: made me think of another reason why it is great
Speaker 1: for kids to watch something like this and hear all
Speaker 1: those speeches about you know, you're supposed to get past it,
Speaker 1: it does get better, and all of those things. Is
Speaker 1: that one element of it is that that that really
Speaker 1: struck me when I was watching is I noticed how
Speaker 1: many times Jimmy was talking about me, me, me, This
Speaker 1: is what happens to me, This is how I feel,
Speaker 1: this is what I go through. And you know we're
Speaker 1: you know, Hillary, you and I are colony of kids.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I can't even keep a plant, even
Speaker 1: a suckul. I know what I'm getting you for your
Speaker 1: new house plans? All right? Well, how you know you
Speaker 1: and I are raising kids, and kids are little narcissists,
Speaker 1: and that's kind of how they're born into the world.
Speaker 1: And then as we as they grow, we teach them
Speaker 1: how to have empathy and how to grow out of that,
Speaker 1: and hopefully by the time you're in high school, you're
Speaker 1: at the tail end of it and you're really learning
Speaker 1: how to see the world through the lens of how
Speaker 1: can I serve? How can I be of service? Um,
Speaker 1: And it's not so much just about me and how
Speaker 1: everything's impacting me, but it is high drama, and that
Speaker 1: of course, that's how we all are feeling when you know,
Speaker 1: once you hit high school, the drama is high and
Speaker 1: it's just so much self focus. And UM, I don't
Speaker 1: I don't know. As I was as we were watching
Speaker 1: the episode, I had never seen it that through that
Speaker 1: lens before, but it really started hitting me that, UM,
Speaker 1: I hope that part of the long lasting effects of
Speaker 1: this word that kids were able to watch that and
Speaker 1: see it's not so much just about how I see
Speaker 1: things that, as you're saying, Sophia, all these things can
Speaker 1: be true. At the same time, it is complicated. There
Speaker 1: are multiple people people's experiences that we all, you know,
Speaker 1: sift through and live through, and UM, I just hope
Speaker 1: that And I don't know, maybe if you heard some
Speaker 1: of that as you as people talk to you about
Speaker 1: seeing things through from a new perspective. UM, and it's
Speaker 1: not making sense. It's a little bit of words that
Speaker 1: makes total sense. But Colin, Colin, you wouldn't worked in
Speaker 1: a school like you worked in a school, and so
Speaker 1: I would love to know your perspective of like, you know,
Speaker 1: we went to school in the nineties, different planet, right
Speaker 1: as these kinds of stories get told, because we weren't
Speaker 1: the only show doing this. They did this on like
Speaker 1: any other show that was about high school. There's been
Speaker 1: a version of this, Um, do you feel like talking
Speaker 1: about it has been helpful? Are the kids articulating things differently?
Speaker 1: Like what? And did any of them recognize you as
Speaker 1: Jimmy Edwards walking their halls? Well, luckily I wasn't with
Speaker 1: the middle school in high school. It was still elementary
Speaker 1: level at the preliminary school campus. But I mean that
Speaker 1: still happen. But it still happens, Like there were so
Speaker 1: many issues with kids being mean to you know, you
Speaker 1: would see it. Is that what you're asking? Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I know, you know. The campaign has been like stop bullying,
Speaker 1: stop bullying, stop bullying, stop bullying. And guess what, we've
Speaker 1: all had those talks with our kids and either the
Speaker 1: bullies still the bullying is still happening, or even if
Speaker 1: it's stopped, the shootings are still happening. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't know that it's the bullying the anger. The anger
Speaker 1: has to be coming from somewhere. But I have to
Speaker 1: say too, as as on the teacher's side or the
Speaker 1: admin side, Yeah, it's happening with the adults to really
Speaker 1: like oh yeah, and that's just like private school politics,
Speaker 1: I think, or school politics. But it's like the adults
Speaker 1: still do it within teachers and grades, and like, you know,
Speaker 1: they're still I hate to say it, but like there's
Speaker 1: the kids are probably subconsciously seeing that too. It's like
Speaker 1: the adults still haven't figured it out. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's also interesting, you know, to the point of why
Speaker 1: this stuff happens. We're talking about how now we've got
Speaker 1: the research, We've got decades of research, studies, data, information,
Speaker 1: not just from our own country but from around the world,
Speaker 1: and that's what explains why we are the only one
Speaker 1: of our pure nations where this happens. And I was
Speaker 1: just reading this article yesterday, um really fascinating research piece
Speaker 1: in the Times talking about how it's the same sort
Speaker 1: of targeted um grooming of boys by these sort of
Speaker 1: alt right groups that create this sort of misogynistic violence
Speaker 1: that mirrors between school violence and domestic violence, and it's
Speaker 1: a similar kind of hyper focused, targeted group that is
Speaker 1: promoting disinformation and polarization in our society. And they're explaining
Speaker 1: how we're more polarized now than we've been in nearly
Speaker 1: a hundred years. It's like just pre World War two
Speaker 1: level of animosity um towards the quote two main groups.
Speaker 1: And the thing that really struck me is that they're
Speaker 1: saying that the difference between the hyper polarization we're experiencing
Speaker 1: now and what we were experiencing in the nineteen thirties
Speaker 1: is that the hyper polarization exists in children as young
Speaker 1: as eleven, where it used to not happen until people
Speaker 1: were in their post collegiate years, at least politically. And
Speaker 1: that gave me because people used to not talk about
Speaker 1: politics over the dinner table. That was it's actually it's
Speaker 1: actually not even about the conversation. They talk about how
Speaker 1: we used to have a sense that regardless of you know,
Speaker 1: quote unquote which side one, that the institutions were taking
Speaker 1: care of the country. And you might have a preference
Speaker 1: for a side, but you believed in in the not
Speaker 1: complete but sort of partial neutrality of the institution, and
Speaker 1: now we don't believe anybody's neutral, and now we don't
Speaker 1: believe anybody's on our side except the people who we
Speaker 1: think are on the same side. And it and it was,
Speaker 1: it's a long article, but it really made me think
Speaker 1: about how these groups that have seen its grotesque, grotesque
Speaker 1: to call it success, but they've seen success and in
Speaker 1: the way they've been able to cultivate this super violent
Speaker 1: boy culture and they're doing it in every other sense
Speaker 1: of culture now and they're aided by the Internet. And
Speaker 1: I'm just like, we have a lot of work to do, Yeah,
Speaker 1: to undo that happened with the vaccination stuff. With yoga,
Speaker 1: it reached all the different demographics. Yes, wait, Colin, are
Speaker 1: you hanging into yoga? Crown? Are you yoga? Mo? No?
Speaker 1: But I used to do hot yoga and I loved it.
Speaker 1: And so it's interesting when you say that, like even
Speaker 1: among teachers you see it. This this thing really got
Speaker 1: my brain going yesterday and I just think, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I wonder, I wonder what ways in whatever groups were
Speaker 1: in we can gather to undo it, because you know,
Speaker 1: what do you do what do you guys do in
Speaker 1: your teacher's lounge? What do what do we do here
Speaker 1: on this show? What do? What do we do in
Speaker 1: each of these little spheres were in. It requires vulnerability,
Speaker 1: and that's the hardest thing in the world to do.
Speaker 1: You know, we know how hard it is to do that,
Speaker 1: just in a if you're married or into your relationship,
Speaker 1: just to be like, Okay, I need to be vulnerable
Speaker 1: and ask for something or say something, or say I
Speaker 1: don't understand or I'm mad at you or whatever, like
Speaker 1: I'll say the things. It's so effing difficult. I mean,
Speaker 1: how do we expect kids to do it? You know,
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. How do the teachers and the
Speaker 1: teacher's lounge can't do it? But that's what I thought
Speaker 1: this episode did so well and what you brought. I mean, Colin,
Speaker 1: you gave everyone permission to go somewhere. Every single person
Speaker 1: in this episode got vulnerable. Yeah, and uh it was
Speaker 1: it was beautiful. You were you were beautiful. There's a reason,
Speaker 1: you know, we looked back because we thought, God, we
Speaker 1: all remember how we felt at the time. What did
Speaker 1: people have to say about this? And there's a reason
Speaker 1: that people multiple Times said this is a landmark episode
Speaker 1: of this series, and truly, I do not mean this hyperbolically. Truly, Colin,
Speaker 1: I think you you lead this episode. You were the
Speaker 1: tip of the spear. You set an intention and you
Speaker 1: brought a presence and everybody went, a wee get to
Speaker 1: go there. We're going with him. And you shouldn't want, Colin,
Speaker 1: You shouldn't want. And I just wish we had been
Speaker 1: able to keep you, even after I lived with half
Speaker 1: the a D staff and I remember them coming home
Speaker 1: for work and being like, why are we losing that one?
Speaker 1: We have to work with so many assholes. Why are
Speaker 1: we leasing He's a treasure? Colin. I'm so glad you're
Speaker 1: working in film again. Um, do you have to go
Speaker 1: to the airport. You're leaving to the airport, breaks, I'm
Speaker 1: leaving studio. I'm going to Spain for a couple You
Speaker 1: deserve this. I just got back from Spain. Where are
Speaker 1: you going? Nice? We're going up Madrid and then Valencia
Speaker 1: and then oh my god, in a long time coming
Speaker 1: in so we're gonna have some wine and um, just
Speaker 1: hang out. Tell us what you're doing right now? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Where are you working now? Because I'm so happy that
Speaker 1: you're not in school anymore. It's actually because of you, Hillary, No,
Speaker 1: it's not because of me. Yes, it is when you
Speaker 1: turned me onto this organization. It's a nonprofit. It's called
Speaker 1: Stockade Works. We're based in the Hudson Valley. UM. It
Speaker 1: was filmed by actress and filmmaker Mary Stuart Masterson Boss.
Speaker 1: We train, we mentor, and we were for Hudson Valley residents,
Speaker 1: UM for below the line crew positions in TV and film.
Speaker 1: UM when our focus is access and inclusion. Obviously, and unfortunately,
Speaker 1: so many people in the industry behind the camera and
Speaker 1: in front of the camera look like white ciss males
Speaker 1: like myself, and it can be like very much a
Speaker 1: boys club and hard to get in. And so we
Speaker 1: fight to have access and inclusion for more women, BIPOC veterans,
Speaker 1: anyone and everyone that feels like they've been bart access
Speaker 1: to the to the industry. And so we trained, then
Speaker 1: we mentor, and we refer. So bring your projects to
Speaker 1: the Hudson Valley and we can hire local crew and
Speaker 1: not looks the same. And UM, I love what I do,
Speaker 1: so honestly, anybody at home, if you could learn how
Speaker 1: to work in the film industry from Colin, do it like.
Speaker 1: You are a wonderful teacher, You're a wonderful advocate, and
Speaker 1: you're just so fun, which is why I hate that
Speaker 1: we had to have you on for this really sad episode. Colin,
Speaker 1: we should be dishy about our drag creen adventures right now.
Speaker 1: I know, and I do have to say. You brought
Speaker 1: me on for the project a couple of years ago
Speaker 1: and I hadn't acted in so long, and I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm like finally getting to play like an openly gay
Speaker 1: character and remind me to never go full bird Cage
Speaker 1: if you what are you talking about? Colin? The whole
Speaker 1: time we're filming a movie together, he was am I
Speaker 1: being too gay, And I'm like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: Coming You're a gaming yet exists in my top five
Speaker 1: films of all times. So I to say you should
Speaker 1: go more, bird Cage. We need to do more. We
Speaker 1: need to do more. We need to have the fan
Speaker 1: base right in, like a totally different narrative for us
Speaker 1: to do with you that does not involve tragedy, that
Speaker 1: is just pure pleasure seeking. That's what we need. Let's
Speaker 1: go make a movie in Spain or the Hudson Valley.
Speaker 1: Let's do it. I'm down. It was so good to
Speaker 1: see all. Thanks for having me, love you, love you,
Speaker 1: send us lots of pictures. I will absolutely And one
Speaker 1: of my best friends who is an actor and his
Speaker 1: wife live in Madrid. So Hill, will you put column
Speaker 1: I on a text I want to connect. I'll get
Speaker 1: you a little tip list. Oh I love it, I
Speaker 1: love it. I'm doing it right now. I'm so glad
Speaker 1: you came. Yes, Yes, thank you all so much. Maybe
Speaker 1: I love you so much. Oh my goodness, Angel, he's amazing.
Speaker 1: I love him perfect. He's just such a gorgeous So
Speaker 1: he's so ah patient I could just remember him being
Speaker 1: such a patient actor to work with, making space for everyone. Oh,
Speaker 1: Hillary thinks it's a good Hillary just looked us all
Speaker 1: up on text um and he's so smart and insightful.
Speaker 1: Uh just yeah, you're right. If you have a chance
Speaker 1: to work with him, take it. Yeah. And new capacity well, also,
Speaker 1: he came up as a child actor. You know, both
Speaker 1: Colin and Lee were child actors, and rather than be rivals,
Speaker 1: they were advocates for one another. You know, they said,
Speaker 1: such a good example. They could have been bitches to
Speaker 1: one another. Because I'm sure they like took jobs from
Speaker 1: one another. You know, I bet they tested for all
Speaker 1: the same stuff and instead they were collaborative and really supportive.
Speaker 1: And Lee really like mourned the loss of Calling on
Speaker 1: our show because he lost his soundboard, you know, the
Speaker 1: person that he got to do fun banter with. So
Speaker 1: I don't know, like we said at the beginning of
Speaker 1: Colin being here, the meta of it all, Colin being dismissed,
Speaker 1: Jimmy being dismissed, and then getting them back just for
Speaker 1: a moment felt like a cheat and not to be snippy,
Speaker 1: but occasionally we are to get him back for a
Speaker 1: moment where he mopped there yes with everyone and was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're gonna you're gonna lose this sogeous, gorgeous. I just
Speaker 1: hope that the folks were snippy about when a big boy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But by the way, for anybody out there that's casting
Speaker 1: a movie, put Colin in it, because one, he makes
Speaker 1: everything better. But to um, he's also such a pro
Speaker 1: and makes everything behind the camera so fun, Like, let's
Speaker 1: all work with fun. I like fun. H that's all
Speaker 1: I want more fun, fun, damn it. Um, it looks
Speaker 1: like we have a listener question, but I can't see it.
Speaker 1: I've got it weird set up here. Christina asks during
Speaker 1: the school shooting episode, where did you draw your emotions from?
Speaker 1: Did you do research or watch any news coverage from
Speaker 1: previous school shootings. That was such a heavy episode, and
Speaker 1: I went through so many emotions watching it. I'm sure
Speaker 1: it was very emotional filming it, trying to remember what
Speaker 1: I did. I think we all probably read some articles
Speaker 1: and watched some documentaries and things, but I mean, ultimately,
Speaker 1: it's just your worst nightmare. I mean, well, and we've
Speaker 1: been living through it. That's the thing, you know, It's
Speaker 1: a We spoke at the top of this episode about
Speaker 1: what it was like when Columbine happened, and you know,
Speaker 1: for me personally, I don't know if it was an
Speaker 1: hour or five hours before I knew that it wasn't
Speaker 1: my best childhood friends, high school, but it felt like,
Speaker 1: I mean, everyone at my school was hysterical. And I
Speaker 1: imagine for each of you, you know, it's it's it's
Speaker 1: a it's a moment where you were very sense of
Speaker 1: safety in the world around you gets broken, and for
Speaker 1: that to happen here in in our home country, over
Speaker 1: and over and over again, and for it not to
Speaker 1: be the highest national priority to change it is something
Speaker 1: that changes you. And and I know for me and
Speaker 1: you know, just get given the conversation the three of
Speaker 1: us have had, I feel like I can say for
Speaker 1: all of us, that's a that's an emotional presence that
Speaker 1: doesn't go away. Yeah. I mean I remember going to
Speaker 1: school after Columbine and it did shift. It shifted the
Speaker 1: way everyone looked at each other in school. We were
Speaker 1: all especially the kids that did show up because at
Speaker 1: the time, you know, we were thinking, oh, it's the
Speaker 1: goth kids, it's the trench coat, you know. And so
Speaker 1: the kids that did show up grengey and wearing clothes
Speaker 1: that were like different from everybody we were, it pushed
Speaker 1: them out further. Remember people, we all just there was
Speaker 1: this sense of yeah, it changes your the way that
Speaker 1: you look at your safety in the world, but even
Speaker 1: just among your peers, where you feel like it's a
Speaker 1: it's a safe place. We're all, yeah, we're all going
Speaker 1: to get past it. It's all okay, right, right, wait, right,
Speaker 1: maybe it's not. And to have a distrust like that
Speaker 1: seeping through your hallways every day, especially for people who
Speaker 1: already feel that kind of distrust at home and then
Speaker 1: they go to school and then they're dealing with it there.
Speaker 1: It's it's just impossible. It's just so hard. My high
Speaker 1: school experience was that I was fringe with the trench
Speaker 1: Coat Mafia. They were my people. We would go to
Speaker 1: poetry slams together, we did theater together, like those are
Speaker 1: my friends. And the ringleader of that group was my
Speaker 1: friend Scott Kirkpatrick, who, if you've ever like seen my
Speaker 1: posts on Memorial Day or Veteran's Day, he ended up
Speaker 1: joining the military because as he really believed in the
Speaker 1: freedom of speech and wanted everybody to have that, and um,
Speaker 1: he ended up dying in Iraq. So when we filmed
Speaker 1: this episode, he was still alive, and he was the
Speaker 1: person I was thinking about because, like to your point, Joy,
Speaker 1: those kids were pushed further out when now we know
Speaker 1: all these felt that, now we know all these years
Speaker 1: later that it was bullshit, And I knew it was
Speaker 1: bullshit in when it happened, when those groups were targeted
Speaker 1: and blamed UM at our school, they had like a
Speaker 1: trench Coke band that went into effect and they would
Speaker 1: like you couldn't wear Jenko pants for like a while
Speaker 1: because you could hide something and then it was stupid.
Speaker 1: It was stupid, and it targeted everyone who wasn't a jock.
Speaker 1: And you know, now we know um otherwise, But when
Speaker 1: we filmed this episode, I remember still feeling a lot
Speaker 1: of anger that these groups were by being targeted because
Speaker 1: we did kind of so we perpetuate in this episode,
Speaker 1: you know that it's the picked on kid. And I
Speaker 1: guess I was just really struggling with that and so, UM,
Speaker 1: I listened on my iPod on repeat the song from
Speaker 1: Lama is Empty Chairs at Empty Tables, and I remember
Speaker 1: that just like feeling the loss of not just the
Speaker 1: kids who had been shot, not just the kids who
Speaker 1: perpetuated these things, but also the loss of like the
Speaker 1: kids who know one trusts anymore and who are being
Speaker 1: like side eyed and ostracized. Um. We had a member
Speaker 1: of our crew who had been shot, and he came
Speaker 1: and sat with me and kind of talked me through
Speaker 1: the wave that you feel not just because you're in
Speaker 1: physical pain, um, but because you don't know what's going
Speaker 1: to happen next, you know, and you know that you're
Speaker 1: so vulnerable, you know. I was like, is it real that,
Speaker 1: like Peyton hasn't lost that much blood? Is it real that, um,
Speaker 1: she would be fading in and out already. You know,
Speaker 1: there were technical questions I had that I didn't want
Speaker 1: to screw up because I knew that there were kids
Speaker 1: who actually lived this experience and you don't want to
Speaker 1: get up m And he was. He was really wonderful. Um.
Speaker 1: And we found out after we filmed all this stuff
Speaker 1: in the library, and I didn't even want it in
Speaker 1: the library because that still felt so Columbiny, like the
Speaker 1: library stuff just it was a reference I felt like
Speaker 1: was too much. But um, after we filmed, we found
Speaker 1: out one of the extras that we had on set
Speaker 1: had been a student Columbine when that happened, and she
Speaker 1: had no idea what our episode was about until she
Speaker 1: came to work that day. My god. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: just one of those like freak things that happens in
Speaker 1: the world where you're like, what, how I mean, did
Speaker 1: she go home or did she still? She stayed and
Speaker 1: she talked with our a D staff and she was
Speaker 1: very forthcoming. She was amazing and I wish, I mean,
Speaker 1: I wish I knew who she was or like I
Speaker 1: had stayed in touch if if she's listening, like, please
Speaker 1: reach out to us, because we were all very very
Speaker 1: very unsteady about this guy's I cannot emphasize enough that
Speaker 1: I did not want to do this episode. Um, and
Speaker 1: she made us feel like it was important work. So
Speaker 1: for that angel out there, wherever she is, you know,
Speaker 1: you put a lot of fears to rest your incredibly
Speaker 1: helpful So thanks, thanks for that. Mhm beautiful, she was good. Well,
Speaker 1: I think how old is most of our listening audience?
Speaker 1: Are we all grown up? So are we all parents
Speaker 1: and adults in some fashion? I'm pretty sure that's do Um.
Speaker 1: You know, the the thing about our show is that
Speaker 1: we do a lot of goofy stuff, but it also
Speaker 1: is a platform to talk with your family members about
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. So, um, even if you think
Speaker 1: your kid is not exposed to this kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: I'm here to tell you that they are. My own
Speaker 1: son at eleven twelve years old, uh, stumbled upon videos
Speaker 1: that I found on his iPad. He was like, Mom,
Speaker 1: watched these, Um, watch these funny videos with me, and
Speaker 1: they were compilations of like animal videos and epic fails.
Speaker 1: You know, they get labeled under epic fails, which is
Speaker 1: something that as a parent, you're like, okay, funny, It's like, yes, exactly,
Speaker 1: it's skateboard videos. It's like a dog falling off of something.
Speaker 1: You know, they're all harmless. And as I watch these videos,
Speaker 1: these compilations with my son, I started to see some
Speaker 1: very uh alarming things mixed in, like Alex Jones and
Speaker 1: certain yes. And this is why I don't let her
Speaker 1: watch YouTube because I know there's it's like you just
Speaker 1: never quite know what we get there, splice and stuff
Speaker 1: in they're going after the kids. It's spliced in so
Speaker 1: split second and so quickly. But what it does is
Speaker 1: it establishes these certain personalities, these radical personalities in our country,
Speaker 1: and it sets a tone with a ten year old,
Speaker 1: eleven year old, twelve year old, Oh that's a funny
Speaker 1: guy from that funny video that I watched. That was funny.
Speaker 1: And then the next thing is they're seeing a video
Speaker 1: that's a little bit longer and a little bit longer,
Speaker 1: and it establishes a pattern of these voices are funny
Speaker 1: and by the time that boy is sixteen or seventeen
Speaker 1: years old, unless he has a parent or an authority
Speaker 1: figure that comes in and it's like this is not funny.
Speaker 1: And I'm going to lovingly explained to you why they're radicalized. So, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: you gotta show up in your kids. It's really hard
Speaker 1: into You've got to pay attention. I got to pay attention. Well,
Speaker 1: and to your point, you've got to look for where
Speaker 1: it's buried. Yeah, it's it's totally buried. Much like when
Speaker 1: a woman finds herself in an abusive relationship, people go, well,
Speaker 1: how'd you end up with that guy? Or why did
Speaker 1: you stay? Because it doesn't start there. It doesn't start
Speaker 1: with the snowball being the size of a boulder. It
Speaker 1: starts with the snowball being the size of a p
Speaker 1: And that's how they're getting into our in front of
Speaker 1: our kids and these things snowball and you know, just
Speaker 1: last week, I'm not even gonna say his name because
Speaker 1: I don't want to give him any promo, but this horrible, violent,
Speaker 1: misogynistic um she's like an m M A fighter or something. Uh,
Speaker 1: finally got banned from Twitter and Instagram. And this is
Speaker 1: a guy who had amassed me millions of followers, mostly
Speaker 1: teenage boys, teaching them to disrespect women, beat women, rape women,
Speaker 1: and boys were like no, he's the coolest. He's just
Speaker 1: being unny. Man's funny. He got in in these little videos,
Speaker 1: and to Hillary's point, by the end, millions of kids
Speaker 1: were watching him talk for minutes and minutes and minutes,
Speaker 1: and it was horrific. I mean horrific. I couldn't get
Speaker 1: to the end of some of these videos. And I'm
Speaker 1: an adult, but I want to know what we're up.
Speaker 1: This is and this is why it's so important to
Speaker 1: show up and pay attention to what your kids are
Speaker 1: watching and what they're h and also to teach them
Speaker 1: to self govern so that they have the ability to
Speaker 1: to spot some of this stuff and go, oh, I
Speaker 1: don't want that to be a part of my my world.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know that. I know that
Speaker 1: I don't fully understand it all, but I know that
Speaker 1: I trust my parents, or my guardian or the person
Speaker 1: that is mentoring and looking out for me when they
Speaker 1: say this is not good for you. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to try and sneak it. I'm not going to try
Speaker 1: and continent you have. That's a character development thing. You
Speaker 1: have to start teaching your kids young, and as they
Speaker 1: grow they will it works. I've done it with my
Speaker 1: own kid. I've seen other people do it with their kids.
Speaker 1: You can teach your children to self govern and that's
Speaker 1: one of the most important things because voices like this
Speaker 1: are probably not going away anytime. So everyone has a
Speaker 1: right to their own thought and their own space. And
Speaker 1: that's why it's so important to be vigilant as a parent,
Speaker 1: so that you can monitor and teach them to monitor themselves.
Speaker 1: It was so much easier growing up in the eighties. Honestly,
Speaker 1: if I could go back and be an eighties mom,
Speaker 1: you better I can believe I would sign up for that.
Speaker 1: Just books and bangs. Let's go books and banks. Can
Speaker 1: we put that on a T shirt? Telling me about it? Well, honestly, like,
Speaker 1: hats off to all of our guest stars in this
Speaker 1: episode because aliceon Cagliotti was unmade easing Um Amber was amazing.
Speaker 1: Who's the guy that played Marcus? Yeah? Who was that awesome?
Speaker 1: And why didn't we get more of him? Yeah? He
Speaker 1: was a great actor and should have played Felix, is
Speaker 1: my take? Yeah he was great. Yeah, I would have
Speaker 1: supported that, that would have been um But or is
Speaker 1: this the pattern of us naming characters after after people's
Speaker 1: real names? On our show. It's like they just didn't
Speaker 1: want to have to deal with it. They didn't want
Speaker 1: to talk about it. It was like, honestly, with the
Speaker 1: cast this big, you can't expect the directors and the
Speaker 1: a D staff and all the producers to remember people's
Speaker 1: real names and character names. Don't be ridiculous. The Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame with Antoine and Bevin and so many more
Speaker 1: of our friends. Yeah, but also before we leave, we
Speaker 1: have to address the Keith of it all, which I
Speaker 1: know that we're going to talk more about in the
Speaker 1: next episode. UM, let's put a disclaimer up for suicide
Speaker 1: on this episode, um, because that's ultimately what it is.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know if this is a school
Speaker 1: shooting episode, but I know for a fact it's a
Speaker 1: suicide episode. UM. And that is accurate. Pain is uh.
Speaker 1: Pain is very real when you're in the depths of
Speaker 1: it and you don't see a way out. And so
Speaker 1: let's make sure we post resources. Um. You know, the
Speaker 1: loss here is kind of unbelievable, between losing Colins slash
Speaker 1: Jimmy and Keith slash Craig. So yeah, I don't know, guys,
Speaker 1: what episode what I have you one? I love you guys,
Speaker 1: And I'm glad that we walked through this together, and um,
Speaker 1: I'm grateful that our audience is sticking with us through
Speaker 1: this and hopefully everybody was able to take something positive
Speaker 1: away from it. Yeah, and I do hope, you know,
Speaker 1: as we move forward, that we'll be able to dig
Speaker 1: a little bit deeper into some of these issues, you know,
Speaker 1: into what is happening online, into how we can activate
Speaker 1: our families and communities, um, to push back against this
Speaker 1: beheamoth of violence that we're up against. How we can
Speaker 1: advocate better for each other, for our friends that are
Speaker 1: in pain, for people who might be, you know, struggling
Speaker 1: with depression or suicidal ideation. You know, we said it
Speaker 1: earlier that it's it's so important to be vulnerable and
Speaker 1: and you know, call and said that beautiful thing that
Speaker 1: people can't help you until you vocalize and ask. And
Speaker 1: one of the things that's inspired me the most about
Speaker 1: our One Trey Heal family is that people come here
Speaker 1: to be vulnerable with each other. People share their stories,
Speaker 1: and not just with us, our fans share them with
Speaker 1: each other. They've built friendship across the world that are
Speaker 1: real And I hope we can continue to be a
Speaker 1: place where we can vocalize and ask and witness each other. Sophia,
Speaker 1: there's an organization you just sent me a T shirt
Speaker 1: for UM, I've got ninety nine problems. Uh, can you
Speaker 1: can you tell everybody what that is? Um? Yeah, So guys,
Speaker 1: something really amazing has finally happened this year. UM. There's
Speaker 1: a lot going on in the world and having one
Speaker 1: resource line to call doesn't make sense. If you are
Speaker 1: struggling with a mental health crisis, you don't necessarily need
Speaker 1: to call nine one one to talk to a police officer.
Speaker 1: You need a mental health professional. And so this year
Speaker 1: here in the US, we have finally, with the incredible
Speaker 1: support of you know, many activists who have championed this cause,
Speaker 1: our country has launched eight and it is the emergency
Speaker 1: Mental health helpline. So great. You know, if God forbid,
Speaker 1: you witness a car accident, you call nine one one
Speaker 1: to get the cops and the firefighters. If you or
Speaker 1: someone you know is having a mental health crisis, you
Speaker 1: down nine eight and you will be routed to a
Speaker 1: mental health professional team and response option. And so hopefully
Speaker 1: nine eight can really help a lot of people, UM
Speaker 1: get the help that they need just as quickly as
Speaker 1: you know you would if you called nine on one
Speaker 1: because there was a fire or something. So that's fantastic.
Speaker 1: Gus asked to wear that shirt to school. He did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was like, can I read this school so people
Speaker 1: so people know? And I love him. I also I
Speaker 1: love you know. I had shared about it, and the
Speaker 1: folks who have helped to run the outreach said, can
Speaker 1: we send you some stuff? And I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I want to send care packages to all
Speaker 1: my friends. So it's been fun to send you all
Speaker 1: and a couple of other people some mailers. And they
Speaker 1: also made these great stickers that I've just been sticking
Speaker 1: on like telephone polls and mailboxes, and I'm like, god,
Speaker 1: I feel like a high school kid again. Are you
Speaker 1: a handle? I mean kind of like putting up no
Speaker 1: X shakers like Peyton. I'm out there being like, call
Speaker 1: for your mental health. Here's where you go. See me
Speaker 1: at the grocery store doing the same thing. Um. I
Speaker 1: love you guys. Let's spin a wheel today. We need
Speaker 1: to end on an up note. I feel like we
Speaker 1: all a little bit of it. I'd like some I'd
Speaker 1: like some happiness with the two of you. Well, we
Speaker 1: got to take care of each other. And I hope
Speaker 1: our you know, our listeners are doing the same thing.
Speaker 1: Let yourself, let yourself take breaks from the darkness. It's important.
Speaker 1: What do we got this week? We've got most likely
Speaker 1: to guys. I just went to the store and picked
Speaker 1: up well, first of all, I died my dough tell
Speaker 1: them what it is. But oh shoot, this is how
Speaker 1: excited Joy is. She's like, okay, so so on background,
Speaker 1: it's most likely to die their hair a crazy color
Speaker 1: and goin all spent and then okay, get right. I
Speaker 1: just went to the drug store and I picked up
Speaker 1: a bottle of purple hair dye. I think I should
Speaker 1: do it. I mean to be fair. I just toned
Speaker 1: my gray hair and it ended up a little purple.
Speaker 1: So it was an intentional did it. It's fun. It's
Speaker 1: a fine line though, like there's a purple where it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is kind of just I don't know, it's like
Speaker 1: bad nineties, it's going to be good. And then there's
Speaker 1: like sexy pastel like unicorn purple, and I don't I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go for that. So we'll see my girl friends.
Speaker 1: And I got these cool hair kits to like, put
Speaker 1: this pink wash in our hair early pandemic, A girlfriend,
Speaker 1: Early pandemic. We were all locked up through like this
Speaker 1: will be so fun. Let's get on the wall dyer
Speaker 1: hair together, and I realized I was like, oh, but
Speaker 1: my hair is too dark to put a wash in.
Speaker 1: So I just looked like Brooke Davis in Season three,
Speaker 1: just like real, like in the sunlight, my hair was
Speaker 1: an unnatural shade of red, and I was like, damn it.
Speaker 1: So I need the two of you to do the
Speaker 1: pastel washes so I can live vicariously well. Joy wins
Speaker 1: it in real life? Which character do we think is
Speaker 1: our dye your hair? Crazy colors did we have? I
Speaker 1: don't think anyone wouldn't Peyton because we don't need to
Speaker 1: talk about Peyton hair. Hair is traumatic. I was gonna
Speaker 1: say Lucas because the only person who changed their hair
Speaker 1: more than I did was Chad. It was only a
Speaker 1: matter of time before he was like, we're doing it.
Speaker 1: We're gonna die at Ravens blue. Um. That would have
Speaker 1: been hot for the boys for like one of the
Speaker 1: National Championship episodes or something. They should have had them
Speaker 1: all die their hair blue. That would have been so cool,
Speaker 1: so fine. Next convention, we'll just tell oh perfect, keep
Speaker 1: the dream alive. Thanks guys, thanks for sticking through this
Speaker 1: with us. We're so grateful that you came, and we
Speaker 1: hope to see you again next week. Yeah. Thanks guys.
Speaker 1: The next episode we'll see you for if The Aftermath
Speaker 1: Season three, episode seventeen, Who will survive and what will
Speaker 1: be left of them