WEBVTT - Ep. 93: Bear Grease [Render] - River Gauges, Thermal Vision, and the Death of Tecumseh 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:16.560 M My name is Clay and Nucleman. This is a 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:20.680 production of the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render, 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:25.160 where we render down, dive deeper, and looked behind the 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:30.040 scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:35.320 HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:39.239 that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:46.159 I'm a big fan of these, uh these snake boots. 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:50.360 I wore these the entire week while I was hunting Mexico. 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:54.800 These are lacrosse straight up snake boots. They kind of 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:58.040 look they kind of have a cowboy boot, but kind 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:03.760 of with a non aggressive heel, leather, square toe. They 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:06.959 come up like all the way almost to your knee, 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:10.200 but they put on easier than a rubber boot. Their 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:13.480 waterproof and when you wear them you feel like you've 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:17.880 got armor on your legs. Yeah, I really like them. 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:20.759 When he was doing no, it was cold. We're at 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:24.000 six thousand feet elevation, so it was it was it 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:27.600 was very cold up there. Well, we have a very 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:31.560 eclectic group here at the Beargreas Renter today, none of 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:37.160 which are qualified to be here based upon good looks, education, accomplishments, 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:41.959 in life, speak for yourself or no, just kidding, the 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:48.760 least of which isn't To my left, Lauren Malten, long 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:57.880 time meat Eater videographer correct four years. Yeah, Yeah, traveled 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:02.600 all over all over with all different varieties of meteor folks. 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:05.160 Great to have you, Lauren, Thanks for having me. Yeah. 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:11.280 To Lauren's left, the illustrious Britt Reeves, good to be here, Brett, 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:13.679 good to see you, man, Good to be seen. To 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:16.919 Brent's left. That's the Wait a minute, that's it. That's 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:20.560 the only intro you get today. Yeah, to Brent's left. 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:24.880 This will greatly reflect my participation in today's endevor go ahead. 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:29.720 You want me to talk about your outfit again? I 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:36.359 think of what's the brand overalls roundhouse with a coon 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:41.639 fob and as pocket watch. We're in a first light shirt. 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:46.959 That's pretty sassy. Do your left, Michael Roseman. Michael, you've 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:49.800 been on the Burger shrun before, haven't you? Yes, on 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:55.640 the where the red farm grows. So Michael is the 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:59.240 owner of sun spot Lights, which were the they're the 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:02.920 coon lights h that we use all the time. That 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:06.000 if you see me or Brent wearing a light a 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:10.040 hard hat with a big old light. That's a sun Spotlight, 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:16.639 Arkansas based company. Yes, and they are super bright, man, 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:21.560 I tell people NonStop. People people challenge me about lights, 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:23.280 like I'll be at a camp. It's happened more than 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:25.519 once and they're like, oh, I got a good light 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:29.960 and I'm and I'm just like really, and we've stepped 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:35.840 out and you know, turn the lights on and coon 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:39.920 hunters have the market on the most powerful lights in 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:43.720 the world. Are you like Crocodile Dundee when that guy 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:46.640 pulls a knife on it, that's not a knife, this 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:49.800 is not a that's not a light. This is a light, 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:52.520 and you pull out that sun spot. Yeah. We found 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:55.200 out a couple of nights ago that he would win 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:58.400 more of those battles if he charges lights. Yeah. Yeah, 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:02.119 I learned a little bit about about these that from 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:04.760 the time you start using that, I thought they just 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:07.560 powered all the way through until they went dead and 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:13.760 they just died. But they but they dim some some 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:18.160 coon hunting lights just cut out. Um. I didn't never. 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.120 I never liked that. No one wants to be standing 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:23.599 there thinking your lights fully charging and being the dark. 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:28.720 So it's slowly dims, it doesn't start dimming until about 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:32.400 the four or five hour mark. After that it starts 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:36.960 to slowly dim and and it's a gradual dim. I mean, 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:39.520 you couldn't even tell yours wasn't charged until you shined 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:42.839 it next to one that was charged. Yeah. I hardly 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:45.560 ever charged mine because it doesn't it doesn't need it, 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:49.080 you know, hunt or I use it every day, feeding 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:52.200 my dogs, going outside, doing stuff at night, especially you 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.120 know in the winter when it gets dark early. I'm 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:56.680 I'm dead serious. I keep it by the door. I 0:04:56.800 --> 0:05:00.960 use it every day and turn it on. But it's 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:03.040 great to have, Michael. We're gonna come back to that. 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:07.960 To Michael's left, Big Dirty Dave Gardener from Montana, How 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:12.120 you doing, man, good? Big dirty? And I go way back. Uh, 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:16.480 David is hunted with me in Oklahoma for white tails 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:20.120 for two years, hunted in Montana a couple of well 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:25.560 once maybe so Arkansas, Arkansas all this time. So what 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:30.479 we're doing is we're down here filming a coon and 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:35.800 squirrel hunt and uh we're staying in East Arkansas over 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:40.240 here on the White River and uh, white rivers coming up, 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:43.760 White rivers like flood stage. Is that right, Michael? Yeah, 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:49.440 I forget it. Thirty three ft flood stage, here's six. Okay, 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:54.080 explain to me these river levels there it seems like 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:59.400 it would be zero, would be like normal. What they 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:03.360 whatever they determined for normal? But that's not true? Well 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:07.720 where where is? Where does what does thirty three mean? 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:09.760 Unless you're here and you just know, oh, thirty three 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:13.200 high water? What doest? I couldn't tell you that accurate 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:16.080 answer to that. I know that they have that when 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:18.880 when you check the water levels, you check flood stage 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:26.120 and whatever the nominal level for the river is. It's 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:29.600 inside those parameters, you know, if it's it's between this, 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:36.120 between two numbers there, it's deep enough to traverse, or 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:38.200 it's too or it gets too shallow and you can't 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:40.520 drive a boat, so it's got I can't tell you 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:43.279 that if I don't know if that comes from core engineers, 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:48.680 like you know, given channel depth, average channel depth or not. 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:51.680 I don't know. That's something for the for the Google, 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:56.000 there's a there's a gauge under the river that you 0:06:56.040 --> 0:07:00.719 can look at that has uh hash marks for feet 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:05.279 under yeah, under the bridges that generally on any river 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:08.520 will equate to a cubic feet per second. A volume 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:12.720 of of cubic feet per second of water moving by 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:19.080 one particular spot. So the volume when they say thirty 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:23.720 three six whatever, it is different. Different rivers have different gauges, right, 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:28.080 but it's always in the United States gauged by cubic 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:33.480 feeper So that doesn't mean like elevation. It'll equate to 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:37.360 elevation on that gauge. That's how they tell like, Okay, 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:44.240 here's flood stage, here's like major flood okay, h Dave, Yeah, yeah, 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:46.679 I mean I think I think, like the foot gage, 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:49.960 a lot of that probably goes back to before they 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:53.880 were able to probably calculate out cfs. And so I've 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:55.760 seen a lot of places it's just like a foot 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:58.600 gage on a bridge, right, and so there will just 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:00.720 be marks on a bridge like like a was sand. 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:04.440 And so this is probably one place on the White 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:08.200 River where there's a bridge and it well, there's gotta 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:11.240 be zero has gotta mean something because we're saying, oh, 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:13.520 the river's thirty three ft, and then if you're around 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:16.000 here for fifty years, you know, oh, thirty three ft 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:20.800 it's flood stage. Normal is like twenty four ft. One 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:22.840 of gage that you use here is looking at the 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:25.400 back door because if there's water creeping up in your 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:28.520 backyard there it is right there. Yeah, because behind this 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:31.280 cabin is a porch that hangs off and there's boat 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:35.360 cleats on a deck that's probably eight or nine feet 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:39.040 off the ground. So gauge it that way too. Yeah. 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:41.880 The floods here interesting In the Ozarks of flood would 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:44.400 be like a flash flood like you'd be. It would 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:49.120 be heavy rain and gushing fast water, dangerous water. Here 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:52.920 flood is it could be a beautiful Usually a flood 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:56.040 doesn't come till after a storm's come through and it's 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:59.400 bluebird skies and the weather is beautiful and the river's 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:03.400 just slow, really inching up water, you know, at least 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:06.839 where it's backwater and out slow water. But we've been 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:10.000 squirrel hunting, coon hunting. We we had I'd say we 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:12.880 had a good, a real good squirrel hunt, other than 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.360 getting flooded out from some of our better spots. What 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:18.200 do you guys think? Yeah, I thought it was really good. 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.640 Killed quite a few squirrels, had a good time. Guys. 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:24.480 What y'all think of squirrel hunting? Dave and uh and 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:28.520 Lauren head and squirrel hunter before now, lots of action 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:31.920 which is great. Usually on a hunt filming, you're kind 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.800 of waiting for that moment, you know, nine days in Alaska, 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:38.800 waiting for him. Yeah, seeing the animal from way off. 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:42.800 But squirrel hunts live action quick same with coon's was 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:46.400 pretty fun. It's definitely one of the more action packed 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.319 hunts i'd filmed. Pretty fun. You know, the first day, 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:53.040 what you guys killed twelve squirrels. I don't think I've 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:55.480 been on a duck hunt where we've killed twelve ducks. 0:09:55.480 --> 0:10:00.280 And yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's a lot of fun, 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:02.320 a lot of fun. And then we coon hunted at night, 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:05.839 hunted Brent's dog, and then we hunted uh, one of 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:11.280 Michael's dogs. And we're hunting as good at coon hunting 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:15.960 as there is in the these United States anywhere. Yeah, 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:19.840 you know that there are raccoons in Europe, but they're 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:25.400 an invasive species. Um. They brought them into Germany. They 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.760 have a large population in Germany. They probably caused them 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:31.160 just as much ruck us over there as they are 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:34.040 over here, killing just as many virgin Ist Yep. What 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:37.960 was the uh impetus of bringing them to Germany? Why 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.600 would you Probably the same reason people brought all kinds 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:44.360 of weird stuff over here. Just it was a novel 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:47.520 animal that they could carry around, maybe even brought it 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:52.200 over for for hunting. Do you know, Michael, Um, I'm 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:57.640 from what I understand it was one of Hitler's chancellors 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:02.280 that whatever he was over the wildlife, thought they were fascinating, 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:06.520 brought them up return. That's don't quote me on that, 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:13.720 but that's what that's sounds good to me. I'm wrong 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:20.520 all the time. You never know, you never know. Sounds good. Um, Well, 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:26.960 a few housekeeping things. March four in Bentonville, Arkansas is 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:32.000 the Black Bear Bonanza. It's a one day event that 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:36.680 is gonna it's it's like action packed vendors Arkansas gaving 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:39.560 fishes there. I know Bear Hunting Magazine is gonna be there, 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:43.080 a bunch outdoor vendors. We're gonna do a live render 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:46.560 podcast in front of all the people that are there. 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:50.360 Last year there was like four people. We're gonna do 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:53.240 al hooton contest of which Brent Reeves is the MC. 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:58.280 And just so if fair warning to oh you contestants, 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:01.400 Clay is a judge and he's not grading on the 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:05.960 curve and spelling counts. He's pretty judgy about this whole 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:10.280 al Houghton thing. Yeah, I was a judge last year. 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:14.959 I got fired, yeah or promoted however you want to 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:18.240 look at that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We we totally add 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:22.320 some unqualified judges there last year. So uh, I'll be 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:24.640 one of the judges. Bread's gonna be the m C. 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:29.920 The winner gets uh a genuine coonskin cap made by 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:33.960 Josh Lambridge spillmaker from one of the Coons that some 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:36.839 Coons that that we killed the Ozarks a couple of 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:41.280 years ago. So that's a big, big prize. And this 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:45.320 all kind of fun stuff. Now here's here is here 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:49.040 is the the addition to that, which is a wild 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:54.240 edition unannounced up until this point. Friday, March the third, 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:59.679 in Bentonville at a location to be announced, We're gonna 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:05.000 do a pre pre screening of the film that we 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:08.840 made about Warner Glenn. It's it's a it's gonna be 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:14.680 a bear Grease film, and so you will be at 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:17.439 some point in the near future people will be able 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:21.840 to buy tickets to this pre screened film. And it's 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:25.320 it's sponsored by our buddies at Audex. They're they're paying 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:30.920 for us to have this venue and the sad news 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.679 is there's only two hundred tickets and when they're gone, 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:37.040 they're gone. So there's two hundred spots in this theater. 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:41.280 And so when the link goes up, just first come, 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:45.120 first served. They're gonna be groceries with that ticket too. Yeah, 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:48.080 it will announce all all that's going on. But me 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.160 and Brent will be there. I know that for sure. 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:52.680 We're gonna watch this film. The film is only, you know, 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:56.120 twenty two minutes long, but we'll be doing some fun stuff. 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:58.000 It will probably end up being a couple of hours, 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:00.480 the whole thing. But so March the heard so the 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:05.559 night before the Black Bear Bonanza in Bentonville gonna be big. 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:08.800 We're gonna give the money that we any money that 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:14.280 we make to the Black Bear Bonanza Arkansas, b h A. Guys, 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:19.600 so mark your calendars. Would be a whole good weekend 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:24.120 right there. It's sure will, It's sure will. Well. So 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:27.480 this is the burg Rease Render where we talk about 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:31.840 for somebody who's new, the previous week's barg Rease podcast, 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:35.520 and we've come to the end of our series on 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.120 two COMPSA. I feel like a burden has really been 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:42.920 lifted off my shoulders, I really do. I think I 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:46.560 started my two comes to research a year and a 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:50.520 half ago, like six months into starting the bargh Rease podcast. 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:54.440 I remember where I was at when I heard. I 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.720 was listening to an audio book, one of Alan Eckert's 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.240 audio books, just where the idea came. Yeah, I was 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:04.520 listening to the Frontiersman, and he talked about two Coomsa 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:08.720 being born on the night that this comment flashed across 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:13.160 the sky in Ohio, and they saw it, and they 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:17.360 they named him two Coompsa, which based loosely translates to 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.120 panther crossing the sky. And I didn't know any I 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:24.480 didn't know much about two Coomesa. You know, It's it's 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:26.640 not like I was just born knowing about Takomsa. I 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:28.480 didn't know much about him. I would have known his name. 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:31.240 I would have known that there were always thought it 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:34.520 was odd that there was a lot of businesses and 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:38.600 stuff like two come some motors. Um, there's a lot 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:41.040 of two combs of stuff around the country. I knew 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:43.480 he was a Native American leader. I didn't know much 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:45.720 about him, but when I heard that, I thought, I 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:49.640 just immediately knew we need to do a whole Bear 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:53.000 Grease podcast on this guy. And it started researching and 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:56.280 started trying to find the right guys, and it was 0:15:56.400 --> 0:16:01.720 difficult to connect with all the people that this podcast 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:06.280 entailed now and it's when it was complete. And that 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:09.080 was the challenge, is I was going to do a 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:11.960 podcast on two come, so, like you know, I figured 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:15.440 within three or four months of me first hearing about him, like, 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:17.440 I'll read a book and I'll get this guy. And 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:21.120 I just kept finding difficulty getting getting the people, getting 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:23.480 the people, getting the people, and I would get one guy, 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:25.000 but I would need a little bit more and get 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.440 another guy. And so it ended up being the most 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:29.560 work I've ever put into a podcast, which is kind 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:31.360 of cool because you have a lot of time to 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:36.080 think about it and getting all these different perspectives was unique, 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.080 and I think it made for a good podcast. But 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:42.000 I feel almost relieved in a good way that the 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.000 story is now out there and not there was out 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:47.880 there before, but we told it on Burglaries. So the 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:52.200 third one is done. Brent, in the whole series, what 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:53.720 what stood out to you because you hadn't been on 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:55.600 the last two, was there anything on the other ones 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:58.120 that stood out? To you, it is all intriguing. And 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:00.400 I learned a whole lot of stuff on on all 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:05.359 of them. But to me, the tip of the spear, 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:09.240 the the culmination of the whole thing was was Chief 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:14.320 Barnes is stuff. Man. That guy is so insightful and 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:20.239 and so he can he easily explains the thoughts and 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:23.720 stuff in a viewpoint that I had never considered. And 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:28.359 it wasn't because I was. It wasn't important to me. 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.040 It was just I couldn't see it from his view 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:36.119 and the way they talked about the individuals and the 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:40.639 difference in and putting two come to on a pedestal 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:43.720 when he wouldn't. He wouldn't have been up there by himself. 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:45.560 There was a lot of guys doing that kind of stuff, 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:49.040 and he was. He was naming names of people in 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:53.160 his culture that were as significant, if not more so, 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:55.639 than to come to and names I've never heard, and 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:59.600 I thought, man, that's that's sad. And it has inspired 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:02.120 me to do a lot of a lot more research. 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:05.640 But I think his participation in it. Without him being 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:09.159 in that, it wouldn't have been nearly as good as 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:11.560 it was. And I absolutely loved it. I like this 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.000 one better than the Daniel Boone. Did you really really? 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:17.679 I did you know? Here's what I was so impacting 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.720 to me sitting across from Ben Barnes and we did 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:23.159 this interview back in two I think I said that 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:29.840 on there. But this guy is like to come so, 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:33.399 I mean, he's a leader inside of the Shawnee Nation. 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:37.119 He would he would stand just right beside those guys. 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:40.040 And I'm not necessarily talking about his accomplishments or not. 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:42.800 I'm just saying he is the leader, a leader in 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:49.159 the Shawnees Shawnny nation. That's goes right back to the 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:52.639 lineage of comes really not that far back, and and 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:59.520 just really interesting. And I was, yeah, super intelligent guy. 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.320 And you saw his heart inside of it his heart. 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:06.280 You know, sometimes when you hear a political leader and 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:07.840 and I mean that's what you would call him. I mean, 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:11.280 in today's world, he has to be a political leader. 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:16.399 And a lot of times when you hear some politician talk, 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:18.719 I mean, every single one of us can be like 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:20.919 that guy's full of it. Well, you know that that 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:25.360 guy has interests that are not always of the purest 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:28.960 Well he's talking, he's pandering too, trying to get the 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:31.480 large majority of this guy is talking to a group 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:35.320 of people, and his talking points and stuff. I don't 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:39.720 think those were vetted by um a communications room somewhere 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:42.399 in another state. That that was all coming out of 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:44.879 his head and out of his heart, that was important 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:46.840 to his people and to the point that he was 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:49.879 trying to get across, and it was you could just 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:52.600 tell he was genuine to me. To me, it seemed 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.639 that way. I think it was. And I don't understand 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:59.280 all the I mean, I'm not inside the politics of 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:03.240 of these Indian nations, so you know, we just had 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.680 this one glimpse. But yeah, when he was when I 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:10.439 asked him, I said, what what is the what is 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:12.640 the what? There were two questions. I said, what would 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:14.840 a Shawnee nation look like that you would be happy with? 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:17.240 And he he took it right back to the people. 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:20.240 He said, We've got people, We've got Shawinese in fifty states, 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:22.040 and I want them to know that they have a 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:26.560 cultural home and that that idea of home seems to 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:31.760 be really powerful inside the the the Indian nations because 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:38.280 they were removed from their home. And you know, it's 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:40.959 been a long time ago, but really in human history, 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:43.840 a couple hundred years is not that long Michael. What 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:45.919 did you say to me the other day We were 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:50.199 talking about some historical figure and and you said, well, 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:52.080 I think we were talking about something about the Civil War, 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:55.119 and you said, well, that guy's granddad was in the 0:20:55.160 --> 0:21:00.600 Civil War. Well, no, it was slavery soul. My mother 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:04.520 died early and a black lady helped raise me when 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:09.720 I was a teenager. And her mother's mother was born 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:12.800 a slave, so her grandmother was born a slave. So 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:18.080 the lady, the lady that helped raise your grandmother, her grandmother, 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:22.840 her grandmother. Yeah, so you know people that knew people 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:27.320 that where it's just not that long ago, right, So 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:29.639 you just add another great or two to that, and 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:34.280 there you are with you know, oh yeah, Well, I mean, 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:36.959 if if the Coms had lived out a full life, 0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:40.280 you know, he would have, you know, potentially died. You know, 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:42.720 he's forty five. If he didn't live another thirty years, 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:47.159 you know, he would have been almost in the eighteen 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:50.119 forties or or something like that. It's not that long ago. 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:54.359 It really isn't, man, Because it takes a while to 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:57.560 sort those things out, and we don't realize it, but 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:02.520 we're sorting stuff out that happened inside of our worlds 0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:08.640 that we aren't even cognizance of, you know. But yeah, 0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:15.800 that's powerful stuff. Um. And one of the most interesting 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:19.320 things to me and the whole thing was Dr Dave 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:23.160 Edmond's talked about how the removal and this is going 0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:25.439 back to Chief Barnes saying that he feels like his 0:22:25.600 --> 0:22:28.880 job is to undo the negative effects of their removal, 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:32.919 which I thought that was interesting. I didn't anticipate him 0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:37.480 saying that. But Dave Edmonds and maybe part one or 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:44.760 part two, he talked about how removal from land was 0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:49.160 very different than a Westerner's worldview of removal from land 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:53.520 because their religions are site specific. Um. I'm reading a 0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:59.200 book right now about It's it's it's kind of an autobiography. Yeah, 0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:04.760 it's an autobiography of a well, it's complicated. Basically, a 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:09.119 guy wrote a book and it's about Native Americans. And 0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:11.760 there's a part in the book where this guy describes 0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:15.640 what he's seen, okay, and he talks about the mountain 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:20.720 and he talks about the sunlight going through these trees 0:23:20.800 --> 0:23:24.879 that have frost on them, in the frost glistens, and 0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:30.159 he talks about a river down below him. Well he 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:38.400 this book was critiqued bye by Cherokee Indians. In this 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:40.440 book the right, the guy that right, and it was 0:23:40.440 --> 0:23:44.080 supposed to be a Cherokee. The Cherokee said, if it's 0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:47.880 real Cherokee had written that, he would have named the mountain, 0:23:48.680 --> 0:23:52.640 he would have named the river. He would have been 0:23:52.800 --> 0:23:58.399 much more specific than a generic mountain, more reverent to 0:23:58.480 --> 0:24:00.439 what he was looking at. You. Well, it just just 0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:04.640 specific because to that spot, to that place, like that 0:24:04.800 --> 0:24:08.119 mountain would have meant so much to them. And it 0:24:08.160 --> 0:24:10.159 ties back to the site specific stuff. So if you 0:24:10.240 --> 0:24:12.680 just uproot this culture and put it down somewhere else 0:24:12.720 --> 0:24:15.560 and like here's some good land, it's different. And and 0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:18.080 you know, I contrasted that, and it's kind of a simple. 0:24:18.800 --> 0:24:22.399 It's pretty simple. So it's probably not entirely accurate. But 0:24:22.720 --> 0:24:25.240 these Europeans were coming over and they had been pushed 0:24:25.240 --> 0:24:29.919 out of their land. They've been pushed out and so 0:24:29.960 --> 0:24:32.879 they've had some bad stuff happened to them too, and 0:24:34.320 --> 0:24:39.240 but they had this kind of utilitarian ideology of land 0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:43.240 and they didn't have any connected historical connection of this land, 0:24:43.920 --> 0:24:46.719 and they were just happy to get it. It's just 0:24:46.760 --> 0:25:00.560 interesting stuff, interesting stuff, Chief Ben Barnes, good, big, dirty. 0:25:01.160 --> 0:25:03.520 What did anythink stand out to you? And in the 0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:08.520 whole series, there's there's definitely a few things that stood out. 0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:12.320 I think that the interesting thing to me was how 0:25:13.160 --> 0:25:20.240 uh yeah, like we're talking about he was, he played 0:25:20.240 --> 0:25:23.840 a role that was needed at that time in the community. 0:25:24.400 --> 0:25:28.239 And I think that's just so different than you know, 0:25:28.359 --> 0:25:32.320 especially in the United States today, Like we're highly individualistic 0:25:32.720 --> 0:25:38.640 culture and we're not always looking into like pursuing something 0:25:38.720 --> 0:25:41.639 that is what our community needs around us. Is there 0:25:41.680 --> 0:25:45.760 certainly are those people doing that, but uh yeah, it's 0:25:45.800 --> 0:25:49.280 just a very different at least from the way I 0:25:49.400 --> 0:25:53.359