WEBVTT - If Chemtrails Aren’t Real, Why Are They Being Banned? 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:07.400 Really now, really, really. 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:11.800 Now, really hello and welcome to really no really, just 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:14.760 Alexander and Peter Tilden, who remind you that subscribing to 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:18.400 our show paves the trail to happiness. And speaking of trails, 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:21.120 we've all seen them, white streaks up in the sky, 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:25.160 trailing behind commercial airliners. Is it just water vapor or 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:28.400 is there something more nefarious being released to thirty thousand 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:32.360 feet Tennessee lawmakers were so alarmed by these white plumes 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:36.680 they passed legislation banning so called chemtrails and any other 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:42.520 forms of geoengineering. That's right, they actually banned them. Really no, really, 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:47.760 chemtrails have been linked to conspiracies about secretive government forces 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.600 who are using them to release chemicals, chemicals that could 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:55.000 cause sterilization, reduction of life expectancy, alter the weather, and 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:58.760 control people's minds, plus a whole host of other sinister outcomes. 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:00.640 But are any of these conspiras He's real. 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:01.480 No. 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:03.520 But when we saw that six or more states are 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:07.280 taking up similar anti chemtrail legislation, we turned for answers 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:11.039 to doctor Joshua Horton, Senior program Fellow for Geoengineering at 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:14.680 the Harvard Kennedy School so let's follow the trail that leads. 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:15.240 To Jason and Peter. 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:19.399 We're going to talk about a thing that is of 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:24.600 great concern to many, many people, and yet by all 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:30.160 anecdotal evidence doesn't exist. It's not a thing we've done. 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:33.120 The guys with the ghost stores, we're not sure if 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:36.320 they exist. We're not sure this one. We're relatively sure 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:39.200 it doesn't exist. But it's got a lot of people 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:40.039 very concerned. 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:42.360 It's a conspiracy. 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:46.360 It's well, I never know what actually conspiracy. Conspiracy is 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:52.280 that something, something is nefarious and it is being done 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:55.040 behind our backs. We're being swindled. We don't have all 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:57.000 the information. If I may, yes please. 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:01.080 You called me and said, hey, Pete, Tennessee lawmakers are 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:01.880 banning chemtrail. 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:05.360 That was the thing they banned. This is exactly what 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:10.000 they banned. They had a bill to prevent geoengineering, which 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:13.679 is the practice of intentionally modifying the atmosphere to counteract 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:17.440 global warming. So they banned this thing because they see 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:20.480 aeroplanes flying up in the sky and they see a 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:25.240 trail of white mists or white cloud behind it, and 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:29.760 they go, that is somebody in the deep dark underworld 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:35.800 spraying things into our atmosphere to either affect the atmosphere, 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:36.760 the weather, or. 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:42.440 US reproduct or reproductive organs right, or its companies doing 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:43.519 crop stuff. 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:43.760 Right. 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:47.240 Something's going on, and the state of Tennessee said, no way, 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:51.000 you're done. You're not doing it, not here, not over 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:55.640 our sacred ground. Atmospheric scientists are saying, we have no 0:02:55.680 --> 0:03:00.240 evidence of any large scale programs suggesting that you know 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:02.560 any of this is going on. A White House official 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:05.200 said in an email, the federal government is not involved 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:09.440 in any outdoor testing or deployment of solar radiation management 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.200 or any of this stuff. Nobody that might be doing 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:15.600 it is copping to it, not even to say, well, 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:20.720 we're just seeing if maybe something, But I also want 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:24.600 to go, oh really, Tennessee, you banned it. So now 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:28.760 what it's supposedly is condensation. That's what we're seeing is condensation. 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.800 So when a plane flies over Tennessee now and it 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:34.480 has a trail behind it, what is Tennessee actually going 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:36.600 to do? They scrambled jets, but are they shooting it 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:37.200 out of the sky? 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:37.960 What are they going to do? 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.400 Sorry, So six more states are in the process of 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:43.280 banning it, and we're not being cocky. 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:44.840 We wanted to go some babies. 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:46.800 And I don't mean to be political. People are very 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:49.480 concerned about these things, and God knows, yes there has been. 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:51.760 Let me give you that, okay, So let me give 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:54.840 you the background. Apparently it's been around this chemtrails iudea 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:59.160 since nineteen ninety six, when an Air Force paper research 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:03.560 paper was least called weather as a Force Multiplier, so 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:06.000 owning the weather. In twenty twenty five, it was a 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:10.920 military paper about how they may weather modification systems in 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:14.280 the future. Whatever Art Bell, the Late Night guy got 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:16.080 on that, other people got on it. It was when 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:19.360 the Internet exploded right all over, so that began the thing. 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.440 But we have to know that also during the Cold War, 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:26.239 the British government conducted more than seven hundred and fifty 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:30.640 mock chemical warfare attacks on the public and thousands of 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:34.599 people were exposed to zinc cadmium sulfide, a chemical chosen 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:37.679 because it's small, similar to that of germs, and because 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:40.480 it glows under unctraviolet light, making it easy to trace. 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:42.440 It was thought to be non toxic at the time. 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:45.760 The repeated exposure could be cancers. The US did the 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.520 same in the fifties and sixties. So do having done 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:51.920 that now being told there's nothing like this happening. 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:53.640 Yeah, so that thing. 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:57.000 Became a force multiplier and that is the origin of this. 0:04:57.480 --> 0:04:59.880 So what we do on this podcast is we try 0:04:59.880 --> 0:05:03.640 and get on the top guy, somebody non biased. And 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:05.479 I'm sure people who are into it are still going 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:07.960 to write us and go, guys, yeah, what are you stupid? 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:12.080 What he's still stupid? What are you being stupid? Yeah, 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:14.000 you're being stupid. Yeah. 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:16.880 So I'm dying to ask if this is happening, if 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:19.559 there's a possibility, by the way, with climate change, yeah, 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:22.680 can we please alter alter the weather? Can you make 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:24.760 it rain? On a micro level? I just want to 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:27.159 know what they're working on, how they're working on it. 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:30.200 And they sprang it over the state of Tennisee and 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:31.680 if this guy can be trusted. 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:32.840 So we've got an expert. 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:37.719 So let's welcome Josh Horton. Oh I'm sorry, I'm very sorry. 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:42.400 I didn't mean to denigrate. It's paraph spiritualist spent a 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:43.640 lot of money to get that dr. 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:45.279 Well he did, or what we're banking. 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:49.360 Doctor Josh Horton is a research director of geoengineering and 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:53.960 he conducts research on geoengineering, policy and governance issues, including 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:58.360 the regulation of research, liability and compensation, and geopolitics. That 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:01.240 previously worked as a clean energy consultant for a global 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:02.360 energy consulting firm. 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:03.400 We won't say which one. 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:08.600 And he holds a PhD hence a doctor in political 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:14.200 science from Johns Hopkins University. Let us welcome doctor josh Horton. 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:18.279 He also might be the Horton of the Horton's restaurant chain. 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:20.640 So doctor Joshua Horton has joined. 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:22.719 Thank you for joining us. It's very nice we get 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:26.680 actual smart and smart, intelligent, experienced people that want to 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:27.440 waste time with us. 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:29.960 It's a fabulous We had set up the premise of 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:34.200 chemtrails and that states are starting to ban chemtrails or 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:36.360 and I thought, and we don't want to be cavalier 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:38.720 about it, but I thought the kemptrail thing I gave 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:42.880 some of the origin was debunked, that that it was vapor, 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:44.640 et cetera. But we want to have somebody on who 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:48.560 knows what they're talking about. Tell us why this continues 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.520 and why this legend you think this legislation is happening now. 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:56.920 Well, it's a classic conspiracy here pem trails and exactly 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:00.520 what kem trails are or to be. It depends you ask. 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:05.719 There's a long history here. So you talked about the 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:08.600 idea of contrails, which are a real thing which we 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.760 can see when the airplanes fly. For many years now 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:16.520 there were claims that those are actually chemtrails, not contrails, 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:18.360 and what those chemicals were doing. 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:20.240 It's a wide variety of. 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:27.600 Claims, weather modification, which is pretty benign, try to enhance rainfall, 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:32.800 to mind control, to mass sterilization. Since the time that 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:36.760 the chemtraial conspiracy kind of got rolling, geoengineering sort that 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:40.680 came into the mix separately, which is what I work on, which. 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:44.120 Isn't happening, but also would. 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:48.240 Entail I woever were to happen dispersing chemicals in the atmosphere, 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:51.440 although upper atmosphere, not the chop sphere. So there's been 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:57.400 this melding of PEM trails and weather modification claims with geoengineering, 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:01.120 which is a very controversial field, and if you look 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:03.800 at the claims or try to figure out what's being asserted, 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:07.080 it's very messy. It's never clear cut. I think if 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:09.080 you ask people that give you a bunch of different answers. 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.600 Cam trails do not exist. They've been debumped in that sense, 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:17.920 certainly scientifically, and yet people believe they exist, and they 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.400 believe they do certain things, and they never can quite 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.040 tell you who's doing it, why they're doing it, what 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:28.800 if I's having But they believe this and it's persistent, 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:33.120 and now it's sort of showing up legislation and things 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:37.040 like what you're talking about, these statewide bands in Kinnessee 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:38.079 maybe elsewhere. 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:40.400 And if you look at sort of the bills that 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:41.520 have been passed. 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.880 You can see you can sort of do an archaeology 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:47.880 and find that the origins of these proposals for classic 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:52.200 chemtrail's ideas that sort of globbed on too conspiracy theories 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:55.520 about geoengineering and sort of melted it all together. And 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:57.280 now they just want to ban all this stuff even 0:08:57.320 --> 0:08:59.960 though never really exists. That's the best that I can 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.560 to explain it. It's a very difficult thing to pin 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:06.360 down because it's a conspiracy theory. It's ever shifting, ever changing, 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:10.280 it's very flexible, it adapts to the latest news that 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:12.679 comes across the wires, and it's so it's a difficult 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:15.599 thing to fully debunk in a way that's perspective to 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:18.240 those who really believe it. And that's the challenge. 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:21.120 So can you just for I think I know the answer, 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:22.920 but I would rather hear it from you. So when 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:24.720 we look up and we do see a sort of 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:28.319 a plume of a trail behind an airplane, what are 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:29.079 we actually seeing? 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:33.080 So I'm not a physical scientist, but I have a 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:36.480 pretty good grasp of this. This is basically it's water 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:41.120 vapor that's in the exhaust from engines on jet aircraft. 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:45.439 When the water vapor exits the jets, it turns into 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:49.480 ice crystal. It freezes, and you can see it. The 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:53.920 white lines are frozen ice crystals that condensed from the 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.280 water vapor that was contained in the exhaust from the 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.560 jet engines. And within a few minutes usually it goes away. 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.679 It can be longer or shorter depending on local atmosphere conditions. 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:05.840 But that's all. It's just ice. 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:09.959 And yet that's not enough for some people who won't 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:12.240 accept that as the answer. But that is they asked me, 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.960 and they ask I would say virtuale all scientists, but 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:17.280 really all scientists, they will play you. 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:17.880 That's what it is. 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:20.400 Yeah, Jason had an interesting question about that though. So 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:24.199 you're in Tennessee, shoot to shoot the plane out of 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:26.880 this guy. So they made a band so that now 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.680 only happened. How do you enforce it in practice? It 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.760 seems a bit sir, because you're obviously not going to 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:37.400 sort of prohibit all airplanes from flying over the airspace. 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:43.359 See geo engineering the task of trying to release particles 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:47.800 into the honesty wherever you're releasing them to do enough 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:51.320 either help damage, et cetera. That would make a difference. 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:54.840 And if I'm correct, there is no geo engineering that 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:57.200 we I mean, China may be doing something North who 0:10:57.280 --> 0:10:59.920 knows who's doing what that you're not privy to, but you, 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:02.920 you're into the scientific community, would know if there's something 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:06.640 going on, if anyone's doing it, And as of today, 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.240 no one is doing it successfully or unsuccessful. 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:10.840 Is that correct? 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:12.400 That's correct? 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:15.520 Yeah, so's there's different kinds of geoengineering, and the labels 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:18.120 get confusing. But when people think about geo engineer talk 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:21.080 about it, what they tend to mean is this large 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:26.760 scale aircraft flying into the stratosphere to release sulfur or 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:30.640 other particles that creates this thin case. You really wouldn't 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:33.600 able to see that would deflex in sunlight and cool 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:36.080 the earth sort of like a giant. 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:39.120 Solar shield or something that is not happening. 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.160 Just there's no evidence for that. We can barely get 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:47.080 experiments done that would be micro versions microscope versions of that. 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:50.440 There's been a few attempts by Harvard. We tried to 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:53.320 do that a couple of years ago to have an 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:58.880 experiments that would have produced virtually no effects. There was 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:02.080 an outcry about it in various simple society groups that 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:03.880 that's not good. We don't have to be affected. This, 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:05.040 don't do it. 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:05.840 So that failed. 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:10.080 The one exception in terms of anybody doing anything like 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:13.080 this is that there's another kind of geo engineering that's 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:16.400 called marine cloud brightening, which is this idea that you 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:21.640 would basically loft sea spray into low lying marine clouds 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:26.319 that would brighten the clouds, that would reflect more slide 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:28.680 away from the Earth, and in those areas and regions 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:32.959 where you had done this, you could cool the local areas. 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:36.679 This could work, and it's actually is being trialed in 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:39.960 a very limited way in Australia over the Great Arier 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:43.679 Reef by legitimate scientists who are trying to see to 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:47.160 what extent this could actually be engineered, how much brighter 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:50.200 the clouds could be made to be, what the fact 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:53.559 I would actually have in this case the reefs underneath 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.600 the clouds or that are really sort of helped them 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:00.920 to adapt to higher temperatures. But there's a hand, you know, 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.360 it's three or four tests. It's very very minimal stuff. 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:06.960 And in terms of the big geo engineering stuff that 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:10.000 you might hear about in Hollywood movies or elsewhere that 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.160 that's not happening, we're decades away from that happening. It 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:16.440 could happen, and it probably could work. It'd be very risky, 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:20.080 a lot of unknown consequences, but we're pretty sure it 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:23.320 would work in a very basic way in terms of 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:28.680 dialing down the sun and producing temperatures. Wow, but lots 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.520 of controversies about that. It's most that there as much 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:35.040 political and governments and ethical as they are sort of 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:36.360 technical engineering. Right. 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:40.280 Is there anything that you're aware of or that you 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:44.120 specifically are working on yourself that you think does is 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:49.400 promising and it could be viable to help counteract, you know, 0:13:49.440 --> 0:14:03.680 are the global crisis. It's that you think does is 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:08.960 promising and it could be viable to help counteract, you know, 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:10.640 are the global crisis. 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.920 I think it's pretty clear. So this is a very 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:17.440 narrow feels it's a full of a bunch of nerds 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:20.920 who look at this stuff. But if one is honest 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:23.320 looks at the growing amount of literature and studies is 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:25.760 supposed to computer models that sort of see what would 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:30.640 happen if you did this. There's increasingly, i'd even say 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:35.680 overwhelming evidence using computer models that a moderate amount of 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:39.600 geoengineering is putting a moderate amount of say sulfur or 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.120 some other part of up in the atmosphere, in the 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:47.160 stratosphere over the planet, it would certainly reduce global temperatures, 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:49.680 and if you did a small amount, you could just slow, 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.560 you know, just marginally reduce things. Looks like if you 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:55.440 did it intelligently in terms of where you released it, 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:59.560 how quickly, how much, et cetera, it looks as though 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.040 most parts, if not all, parts of the world would 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:07.080 be better off under some geoengineering scenarios then they would 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.760 be without doing geo engineering. But with climate change happening. 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:13.280 Right now, there's a lot of you know, one. 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:16.640 Could say you're playing god, You're you're you know, who's 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:19.560 controlling who's setting the third step for the planet, which 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:21.320 country is doing it? How do you agree on where 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.480 that's set. There are concerns about talk about this stuff. 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:27.400 Is that provide an excuse not to cut see you 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:28.080 two emissions? 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:30.280 And does it sort of give a uh. 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:33.000 You know, a green light toil and as companies to 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:37.320 go full bore. These are all legitimate concerns and it's 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.240 very messy. But in terms of the technical di mentions 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:44.360 it of this, as I see it, it's pretty clear 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:48.080 that that some sort of moderate version of what has 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:53.080 been discussed, if it were done, would benefit most places 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.120 and most people in most ecosystems. 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:58.680 With any projected potential hazards. 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.640 The more you do, the more hazardous it becomes. Any 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.080 geo engineering, there's going to be perturbation, so there's going 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:12.480 to be some some effects consequences for say, regional precipitation, 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:17.360 for regional temperatures that compared to the way the world 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:21.280 was one hundred and fifty years ago, would be problematic. 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.600 But comparac to birthings are headed, which is really the 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:29.160 proper comparison sort of risk risk scenario, things soon be headed. 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:31.840 It generally looks again as you get a sort of 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:37.000 a smart deployment, a moderate amount that on balance, no 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.240 place would be much worse off than it would have 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.520 been without doing the geoengineering, and most places would be 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:47.080 better off in terms of lower temperatures, more more sort 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:54.200 of stable precipitation patterns, fewer extreme weather events including the cyclones, floods, droughts, 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:57.640 you know, the usual set of things. It's reparkeable. Actually 0:16:57.680 --> 0:16:58.920 it's almost too good to be true. 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:03.680 Question, why don't we give it a shot? Where's the 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:04.359 tipping point? 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:06.760 Where's where I'm at? You don't have a lot of funding. 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:10.160 I read that the funding is minimal. Isn't there somebody 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:13.040 somewhere who's going to screw this? Like Jason just said, 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.000 also two hundred billion dollars at this. Let's let's get 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:18.160 approval and let's let's go for it. 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:21.520 Well, a couple of things. So there are a handful 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:26.320 of sort of cowboys. There's there's a couple of guys. Well, 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:28.639 I think they're a renow now that these guys from 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:33.800 Silicon Valley. They have a company called make Sunset makes sunsets, 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:38.880 and the past year they've been filling balloons with sulfur, 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:44.200 releasing them and then selling cooling credits to those who 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:48.000 would buy these things. I mean, hell, one balloon delivered 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.840 x amount of cooling. Now that's ridiculous physically. 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:53.399 Is it working. Is the business working? 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:57.680 Uh, it's not working. They don't think it's going to work. 0:17:57.720 --> 0:17:59.720 But they're they're in it for the shock value, and 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:02.199 they've certainly made an impact. They've gone lots of attention, 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:04.399 they've gotten a lot of pushback from those and in 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:07.120 my community, some of them think it's people think it's 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:09.560 great because they're just sort of sticking into the system 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:11.639 and saying, hey, we're going to just try something. It's 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:14.600 something not gonna work, They're going to get this intention 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:20.240 for this generate enthusiasm. That's one case. There's also an 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:23.960 Israeli company, well I think startups. It's a brand new 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:28.359 company that I it's shrouded in secrecy, and of course 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:30.840 one of the people who runs it is former was 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:34.040 involved in the Israeli nuclear program, so it's got all. 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:36.040 The sort and there. 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:38.000 Apparently this is a company that's got a lot of 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:42.480 funding that has has patented some sort of a delivery 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:46.960 mechanism or a particle and it intends to do some open. 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:51.880 Air trials of this four now. 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:54.680 I don't know how it is, but they have a website, 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:59.080 there's talk about it. These are really fringe sort of 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:03.439 actors in the scheme of things by a large I 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:05.600 think the views of the people who really work on 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:08.760 this is that the scale of what's being contemplated in 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:12.400 terms of really, in a sense, taking over some control 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:16.679 of planetary climate and trying to manipulate it in a 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:20.840 way that helps people in the planet. It's an issue 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:25.480 of immense global public interest. It's a public policy issue. 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:28.520 So this should not be left of the market to 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:29.639 deliver to the sale. 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:33.760 If you could sort of snap your fingers and get 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:37.840 the green light for a kind of project or experiment 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:40.480 that you think is viable, what would be the thing 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:43.840 that you would like to put into some sort of 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:45.960 practical experimentation of this. 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:48.879 I like this, It's going to be very boring, but 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:51.399 I think what's actually the most important right now is 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:55.440 to do some very small scale experiments that wouldn't even 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:58.359 affect the climate, but that would involve releasing a little 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:01.920 bit of particles they could be sold for something else 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:07.399 at the right altitude, and then driving vehicles through the 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:11.000 plumes to sort of measure what's happening in those plumes, 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.679 how there are particles of behaving. And the reason to 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:18.000 do that is because, first of all, it's impossible to 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:20.560 recreate those conditions in. 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:21.240 An the laboratory. 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:24.240 Everything we need to think we know about geoengineering, which I 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:26.280 was giving you sort of a you know, a sort 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:30.320 of optimistic depiction of it all that is based upon 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:34.360 computer models, which obviously could be wrong. And the computer 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:37.480 models are only as good as the data that we 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:41.320 have from real world experiments, and so you need to 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:46.359 sort of parameterize those models with real world evidence. So 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:50.000 we need to go see if sort of the algorithms 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:54.120 we have in these models is actually accurate. Is what's happening, 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:55.520 what would happen in the real world. 0:20:56.240 --> 0:21:00.119 So as a review, just to recap Jay tem trails 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:01.240 not not a thing. 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:04.720 I'm not so sure we got the guy. 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:07.479 We got the guy. You can unequivalently look at us 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:08.640 and say, not a thing. 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:10.600 I just want to be one of those guys who 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:14.399 you know, I fascinated this where you know, like a 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:16.960 flat Earth or apparently there's still some flat earther people 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:19.560 out there, and you go, at, what, what do we 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:23.960 need to do can break you go maybe. I mean, 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:27.640 we we have satellites and people in space looking back 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:30.640 and going it seems to be a ball and they go. 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:33.760 No, but somebody who's comfortable with a conspiracy. We need 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:36.200 things explained. People need things explained. And I know we'll 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:39.040 probably get huge pushback on this episode, but doctor Horton, 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:40.760 thank you so much for coming on and good luck. 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:41.639 I hope you get funded. 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:45.800 I would love your work to get a little more attention, 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:48.919 rip it up a little more love, because it seems 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:52.200 to me, I mean, the obvious statement is if if 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:53.879 you and your colleagues. 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:58.119 Are not allowed to push forward, it seems that the 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:00.560 writing is on the wall that we're going to have 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:03.840 a major crisis on our hands, that we're already seeing 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:05.120