WEBVTT - Brexit's Monty Python Impression Continues: Authers 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:05.600 Welcome to the Bloomberg Penel Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney along 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:07.760 with my co host Lisa Brahma Wolds. Each day we 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:10.399 bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for you 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:12.640 and your money, whether at the grocery store or the 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:15.960 trading floor. Find a Bloomberg penl podcast on Apple podcast 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:18.040 or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as at 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:26.480 Bloomberg dot com. For once the pound is not doing anything. 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:30.319 I'm Lisa bram Woyds, Vince Ignarella, Bloomberg Macro Strategies, joining 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:33.600 me here up Paul Sweeney out on a much deserved vacation. 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:37.320 It has been an incredibly volatile period for the pound, 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:41.720 for sterling uh today people are not sure what to make. 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:44.480 European Union leaders are planning to offer the U hate 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:48.800 conditional Broxit extension at this week's summit in Brussels, widely 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:52.800 expected in markets. The question is though, going forward, what 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:55.440 this means for what kind of Brexit we're going to get? 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:57.360 And to answer that question and tell us exactly what 0:00:57.400 --> 0:00:59.640 we can expect and look into the crystal ball is 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:02.800 John Authors, who joins is here in our interactive Broker Studios. 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:07.000 So John is the senior editor for Bloomberg Market, What 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:09.720 do you think what's going on here? How much creed 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:12.600 this do we put into a delay getting a better 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:17.840 Brexit deal a delay? Well, there's no deal that's possible 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:21.360 other than the one that Teresa May has already negotiated 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:26.120 without a delay. So if you have more of a 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:31.600 positive polyannerish attitude towards this, then plainly a delay should 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:38.120 be able to improve the ultimate outcome. So there is 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:43.280 that element of positivity. That said, the government's strategy throughout 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:47.280 has been to work on the assumption that any delay 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:49.920 is going to be seen as a betrayal. That is 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:52.120 a big part of why it doesn't want to delay 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:55.600 if it's all possible. Uh and adds to that that 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:02.880 the the clear Are deadline has been used as a 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:08.200 negotiating tactic. Now, what's interesting in the last few days 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:13.160 is that that's deadline did appear at last to be working. 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:17.040 We heard quite a number of very aggressively hard line 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:21.680 pro Brexit MPs beginning to suggest that they would vote 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:24.480 for this rather than take the risk of leaving without 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:27.600 an odeal, or perhaps more importantly for them, taking the 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:30.360 risk that they would end up without a Brexits at 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:34.840 all um. So that then leads to the very intriguing 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:39.440 UH parliamentary drama we had yesterday when the Speaker decided 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:42.840 that we wouldn't be able to have another vote on 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:47.240 this unless tourism you can get another deal. I think 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:50.200 having you wanted me to answer the question, and obviously 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:54.120 I can't, because nobody can. I think what's most I 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.840 think what's most likely. I think what's most likely at 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:02.880 this point is in the next week that Europe comes 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:06.160 up with something that is enough of an excuse for 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:08.720 Terisa May to ask for another vote, that we get 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:14.600 one more vote, probably next week. I think the odds 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:19.120 are still narrowly on that vote failing. I the Brexit 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:21.120 deal that we've got ahead of us, which from the 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:23.359 markets is a point of view, is a very good 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:28.000 one because it leaves Britain basically in economic terms in 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:30.760 Europe and from the point that brick Steers terms, it's 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:32.840 a very bad deal, but from market terms it's a 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:36.240 very good deal. The most likely scenario is that that 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:38.560 still narrowly gets down and at that point we have 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:41.680 to have a long delay. So with the delay in 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:45.640 the potential vote next week, there's some talk that what 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:52.000 the you will propose is making some consolation to the delay, 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.360 adding that to me is deal and would that be 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:58.240 enough to get past Barkau to give her the opportunity 0:03:58.240 --> 0:03:59.840 for a vote next week? What do you think they 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:03.080 need to come up with something substantially different. They can't 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:05.800 come up with something substantially different in the time available, 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:09.280 and he won't he won't allow it anyway. I this 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.000 is we're in the realm of politics. We're in We're 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:14.680 in a country that doesn't have a constitution. Um. This 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:17.960 is a precedent. It's an extremely strong precedent that dates 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:20.520 back to the very early years of James the First, 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:25.080 who came after Elizabeth the First talking about British politics. 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:31.440 It takes its Yeah, it's fun um that. But but 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:34.880 the constitution. Our constitution is a fluid document, which is 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:38.200 to say, it doesn't exist, so you can you can 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:41.000 alter it if you absolutely have to. Berko at this 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:45.000 point is in a political situation. If it is obvious, 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:48.640 um that there is will to have a vote, he 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.960 probably will take an excuse to bend and vote. The 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.039 other important points to note is that there are ways 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:58.240 around it. If you really want a glorious British possibility 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:01.840 to it is a make could always call an enter 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:04.920 this parliamentary session and start a new one, the only 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.000 problem there being that she has to get the Queen 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:10.719 to agree to come and give a new speech, because 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:13.479 this is like Alice in Wonderland. This is like literally 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:16.360 the tea party at Alice in Wonderland. If she shakes 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.960 her hand like this and says abra cadabra, they can 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:22.799 restart it. And John Burko doesn't have like to stand 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.280 on this is crazy? No, why doesn't she just do that? 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:29.600 Be it is crazy? Well, she's the Queen is a 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:31.880 nice old lady in her nineties. We don't really want 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:34.760 to drag her around the streets of London and sticker 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:37.359 in the throne. It's got to wear quite a heavy 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:40.040 crown whilst he gives that speech. So so we've got 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:42.839 to be polite to polite to her while we were 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:44.920 at it. That that's that's one point. I mean. The 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:51.599 other point is thank you, and the other point for 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:55.440 anybody out there, thank you. The other points. The other point, 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:58.440 which is more serious, is that you can get Parliament 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:04.520 to vote to override the normal rule as that if 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:09.680 a majority of Parliament can vote to override the speaker. However, 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:13.680 they have to be sure that that that somebody has 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:17.760 to organize them to do that, and in principle, you 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:22.160 can only get that if you have already assured yourself 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:25.240 that a majority of people will actually use that vote 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.200 to change their mind. I mean you're speaking about the politics. 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:30.120 This is a rule that really hasn't been used since 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:34.880 I understand, Um. I think that's well, yes, but that's 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:39.840 partly because generally speaking, if you've lost once, you don't 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:42.040 dr going back to the world. I mean, I mean 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:45.400 you mean giving moving on from Lewis Carroll, I've I've 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:48.280 drawn the analogy and others have to to Terisa Ma 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:51.360 of Terisa Ma to Monty Python's Black Nighty has both 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:53.200 his arms and both his legs cut off and still 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:56.479 doesn't know he's beaten, and he says, come back here 0:06:56.480 --> 0:07:00.880 and I'll bite your legs. Basic just a fasturants butter 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:06.120 scratch um. Most most British prime ministers are not gluttons 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:10.440 for punishments and don't actually keep putting exactly the same 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:14.280 vote to the MPs when they've lost already. So yes, 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:16.560 it hasn't been in vote since then, but in general 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:19.080 is speaking people you don't it's not something you need 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:21.760 to invoke. People don't like losing more than once on 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:26.120 the same issue. John Authors are Monty Python correspondent U 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:30.080 here at Bloomberg LP, joining us here in our eleven 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:32.000 three our studios. John Author is a senior editor of 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:37.280 Bloomberg Markets and h Brexit does draw natural comparisons to 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:42.000 Louis Carroll and Monty Python. At this point, I was 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.760 actually just trying to picture the Queen with their staff 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:48.640 whacking Burko over the head for dragging her out in amazing. 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:52.360 That's absolutely amazing. With her heavy crown, I actually think 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:55.040 she would just give him the look of death. Absolutely, 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:56.880 it would. It would be worth it would be it 0:07:56.920 --> 0:08:15.480 would be worth it. I am Lisa Bramoys, Paul Sweetie 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:18.920 on vacation, Vince Saignarella, I'm so glad to say Bloomberg 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:24.440 Macro Strategies joining me here in our Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studios. 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:27.440 You know, it's really interesting when you talk about recycling, 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:29.720 do you ever wonder where does it go? Takes it? 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:32.079 I think this is a fascinating story. It's fascinating right 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:35.120 and and for years it was China and they have 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.640 stopped taking our trash, and there is a question is 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:42.240 it even worth recycling anymore? And our people recycling or 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.320 are frankly waste management companies just throwing the stuff away? 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:47.960 Joining us down to discuss. Brent Bell, vice president of 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:52.840 recycling at Waste Management based in Houston, joining us by phone. Brent, 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:55.560 what's the answer to this? As China refuses to take 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:58.000 our trash? Are we just throwing stuff away rather than 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:01.560 recycling it ourselves? Now? You know we're we're still recycling 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:05.000 a waste management We had had to find alternative markets though, 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:08.920 because China was accepting of the material we shipped over 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:12.760 there in historical high years. Now they're down about three percent. 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:15.600 So we really had to look worldwide to find other 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:18.800 markets for the mixed paper, the cardboard, and the fiber 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:22.160 that China was consuming for so many years. And what 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:24.480 are those markets? Are you? What are you're saying? We're 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.480 still exporting globally, just not to China to other countries. 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:30.840 That's that's right. So India some other parts of Southeast 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.800 Asia have really stepped up. We developed those markets years ago, 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:38.320 knowing that the dependence on China was was somewhat, Uh, 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:40.440 you know something that we knew at some point we'd 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:42.960 end you know, they talked about it for years, from 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:47.679 environmental concerns due to high contamination levels on reducing the 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:49.679 amount of imports that they would take. And it's it's 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:51.880 a global issue, so it's not just us to China, 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:55.040 it's other countries going into China. We've all had to 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:58.160 shift and find alternative markets. And then even domestically, you're 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:01.319 seeing a lot of new expansion domestically in paper mills, 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:03.839 which we haven't seen in decades. Are other markets more 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:07.400 expensive than China? So I would I would say they 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:10.480 right now that prices are a lot lower than other 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:12.920 than China was China is always a premium buyer for 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:16.160 these type of materials, and other markets with it's India, 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:20.160 Southeast Asia. Even here domestically, because of the recent oversupply 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:23.920 situation caused by China, we haven't seen a lot lower 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:27.400 prices on the commodity side. So that creates a definite 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:29.720 price and balance, right if people are paying less for it, 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:32.880 but the cost of recycling goes up, that's the conundrum 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:34.160 you have as to what do you do with the 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:37.079 stuff if it just costs more to recycle than effectively 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:41.839 throwing it away. Exactly, today, are processing costs at our facilities, 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:45.040 you know, exceed the value those commodities by by you know, 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:48.160 ten to twin dollars per ton, which means that they, ultimately, 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:51.920 the customers degenerates those materials, has to pay that difference. 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.880 Where historically their business models, whether that's the municipality or 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:59.920 commercial customer, relied on these commodity prices. It's somewhat you know, 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.840 subsidize some of their budgets, and actually there was money 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:05.160 coming into them for so many years. Now it's money 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:07.880 calling out to pay for the processing costs. So, Brent, 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:10.680 there was an article in the Atlantic magazine in the 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:14.880 past a week or so. Is this the end of recycling? 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:16.920 That was the title of the article, and it was 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:19.760 talking about how Americans are throwing more and more stuff 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:22.120 away and there are fewer countries that actually want to 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.040 take this stuff. You are saying, you sound constructive that 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:29.720 you're still recycling, but is there sort of a diminishing effect? 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:33.240 Are people recycling less than they did, say a year 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:36.480 ago or two? So I think the big part now 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.520 is people are recycling as much or more, But some 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:42.280 of the materials are putting in the stream is contaminated. 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:44.440 So what we're trying to do now is go through 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.160 an education program to make sure that they understand what 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:49.760 the right materials are to put in those materials to 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:52.559 begin with, in their in the recycling bins to begin with. 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:55.640 But I do think that whether you're selling material or 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:58.440 paper mills are here in the US or India, they 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:00.760 all expect a much higher quality of the material than 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:03.560 ever before. So it almost seems like this should be 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.840 part of the conversation that everyone speaking about about green 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:10.640 deals and and green products. It does if we're polluting, 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:15.720 if you will, with plastics and recyclables certainly doing other 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.440 things to the environment, it's it's not a trade off. 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:21.320 It seems like we should be getting to start where 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.280 the problem first started, right. That's right. And I think 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:25.840 you hit the nail on the head a few minutes 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:28.959 ago when you mentioned the supply and balance is so many. 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.320 For so many years we've had our customers want to 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:35.440 have higher diversion rates and produce more recycling. What we 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:38.240 haven't focused heavily on that we need to is on 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:41.280 the brands and the manufacturers to use more recycled content. 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:43.960 We need to create that demand situation which has really 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:47.080 dropped off today and that's what's caused lower prices. But 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:51.520 if we can encourage our customers to use more recycled content, 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.439 to support brands that have recycled content in their in 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.200 their products and packaging, that will help create this demand. 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.760 It's so needed right now. Thank you so much for 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.280 being with us. UH. This is a really important issue 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.280 and hopefully we will hear from you again. Brent Bell 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:11.600 is vice president of recycling at Waste Management based in Houston, Vince. 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:13.960 I find it fascinating because this is such a consumption 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:16.679 based society and you have to wonder when you do 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:20.720 spend that time sorting things into the different bins, do 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:22.760 they just end up throwing it away? Yeah, and you 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:26.000 know you do. That pollution issue is really important because 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:29.000 people don't really look at all the times at what 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:32.040 they're recycling and they said, well, if it's plastic or 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:34.160 if it's metal, then it certainly must go in the bin, 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.040 but not necessarily. And they're also is an eddication issue 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:40.160 with respect to cleaning some of these UH plastics or 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:42.800 other containers. Right. We have to actually it can be 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:45.160 really difficult, right, especially that at the grease just sort 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.320 of like stays in the cracks. And then if you 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:48.920 spend a lot of time using the water, are you 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:51.400 wasting the water and the heat? I mean, I give 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:54.520 this way too much. You can tell on neurotic I 0:13:54.559 --> 0:14:15.640 am yeah. Vince Signerella alongside me today Bloomberg Bacross strategist 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:21.640 Paul Sweeney on vacation. I am so happy you're here. Uh. 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:24.960 We were talking about bitcoin a lot over the past 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.040 eighteen months, or maybe eighteen months ago when the price 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:32.400 of a bitcoin was more than four times as much 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:35.840 as it is currently currently trading less than four thousand 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:39.560 dollars each. But there is a question what is the 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:43.080 future of cryptocurrencies as enthusiasm Waynes joining us now did 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:46.440 it weigh in? Is Eric Lavek. He is chief executive 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:48.560 of Ledger based in Paris, but he joins us here 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:51.200 in our Bloomberg Atta Active Broker Studios. Tell us a 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.360 little bit about what Ledger is and how it fits 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:58.080 into this cryptocurrency world at a time of transition. I 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:03.160 would argue, yeah, Ledger is a security company, technology company 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:09.320 providing with hardware, wallets and all technologies to secure a 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:12.680 bitcoin and crypto assets. Because it's a complex asset, you 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:14.560 need to secure it, and so we are a global 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.680 leader writing solutions for individuals and enterprises. So what has 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:23.000 it done for your business? The fact that there has 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.640 been this sort of dropped enthusiasm cbo just saying they're 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:29.120 not going to trade futures contracts had a bit quite 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:32.280 anymore just in the past few days. Well, we have 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:36.400 a lot of enterprises and financial institutions working with us, 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.520 and we have despite the collapse of the price in 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:43.200 the recent months, the strategies are still very strong. So 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:48.920 if cbo IS is stopping their futures, maybe first it 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:51.920 can push up the price because you cannot shut it anymore. 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:56.000 But also most of the financial institutions have a very 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:58.760 strong strategy for the future of crypto because it's not 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:03.920 only decentralized crypt occurrencies, it's also the chanization and basically 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:07.120 they really want to build a new backup fees based 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.520 on this technology. Yeah. I think we were just talking 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.040 about that off the year that the fact that sebo 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:15.680 stepped out is actually potentially a good opportunity for bitcoin 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:17.480 to rise again because as soon as they came in 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.440 with that future, it gave traders an opportunity to short 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:24.680 the physical uh if you will, the technology physical, and 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:26.840 and that is almost immediately after the price came down. 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:29.200 Is now that they've stepped out, there is an opportunity 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:32.000 for traders to get back in and play bitcoin the 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:35.560 way they did before. See bow Baby Sebo stepping out. 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:37.840 But you have firms like JP Morgan Chase stepping in 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.080 and saying they want to develop their own digital currency. 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:42.480 So this is definitely a positive for you and for 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:45.440 the future of the company. No, yeah, clearly. Uh. We 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:47.840 have seen a lot of ups and downs when the 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:51.160 price shoot to the moon. The sales of our hardware 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:53.520 while it's went through the roof as well. We were 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:56.080 planning to sell sty thousand units we and it selling 0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:59.000 one million. So with the price going down, it's the opposite. 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:01.920 But we see a lot of opportunities, as always saying 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.919 on the enterprises because the future is really aligned with 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:10.840 cryptocurrencies dochanization, uh, and they don't want to miss the 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:16.040 next wave. There's an irony here that crypto assets are 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:20.159 not physical, they are digital, and yet there is a 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:25.959 need for a physical accessibility or or storage of a 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:29.560 bitcoin in a way that can create security. Can you 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:31.360 talk a little bit about that? And now it's sort 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:35.399 of uh, it's it's challenging for people to get the 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:39.440 same kind of security. It is cybersetting without the physical. Yeah, 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:42.360 contrary to what we think when we say virtual currencies, 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:45.160 or used to say virtual currencies before crypto assets, it's 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.840 in fact very physical. When you own bitcoins or any 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.399 crypto assets, what you really own is the private key. 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:52.600 It's a piece of information. It's something that you can 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:54.840 write on a piece of paper, something that you can 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:57.879 even engrave in the plate of steel, input in a safe. 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:01.520 So it's like cash or it's physical. It's like Beerer bones, 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:04.080 and so you need to protect them. You cannot have 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:06.159 them on your PC or your smartphone because then you 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:10.000 can get hacked. That's why you need a secure device 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:12.840 which is built on smart cards, which is going to 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:16.880 allow security. It's like a fortress for your bitcoins. So 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:19.360 like on that subject, because I just find the whole 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:21.879 thing fascinating. There's been so many stories of people embezzling 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:26.040 and and I think something that is still eight fifty 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:29.160 million dollars goes missing every year from bitcoin wallets here, 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:32.080 there and everywhere. If it's in your wallet, if it's 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.040 in your company's wallet and somebody then does hack your 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:38.240 phone or your computer, explain to me how that remains 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.080 protected if they've they've got access to it, but they 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:44.119 don't have access to it. Well, if you are an enterprise, 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.239 you need to have governance to manage your funds. So 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:49.800 you really when we deploy your solutions, you will have 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:52.840 multi signature timelocks. You will have a lot of feature 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:57.399 that will prevent a single point of failure because when 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:00.760 you want to manage these assets as a price, you 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:03.520 need to have rules. And this is the technology that 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:06.760 we are providing because if you imagine that you will 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:09.960 have only a safe with one key, then the problem 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:12.920 is not really I t The problem is the process 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:15.240 because to whom do you give access to the fund? 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:17.720 I mean to the safe. What happens if there is 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:22.160 a hostage situation, if the CFO runs with the safe itself. 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:26.200 That's why you need you need these layers of governance. 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:29.040 And when you have multi signature, then you can have 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:31.360 like protections thanks to all the process you can put 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:34.800 in place and just real quickly thirty seconds. Here this 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:38.960 product the larger nano X, which is a Bluetooth enabled 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:42.600 hardware wallet. You just introduced it at c e S 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:45.840 just real quick. Was there a lot of enthusiasm? Was 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:48.320 there more than you expected or or was there waiting 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:50.560 because of what's going on in cryptoconomy. Yeah, it was 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:53.480 a lot of enthusiasm, which was very good because despite 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:57.600 the drop in price, people are still using our products, 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:01.199 and the nano X with bluetooth lows management on the go. 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:03.560 You can have your mobile phone, your smartphone, you Apple, 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.720 you Enoid, and so people are enthusiastic because they will 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:10.600 be able to use it much easier than before. Cryptocurrencies 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:13.919 aren't dead yet, and people are definitely looking for ways 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:19.119 to make sure that their assets are not stolen. Erica K, 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:21.080 thank you so much for being with us, Chief executive 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:23.959 officer of Ledger, normally based in Paris, but joining us 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:27.600 here in New York. I'm Lisa Abramo. It's Vincegnarella joining 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:46.560 me today. This is Bloomberg Paul Sweeney off today on 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.840 a much deserve vacation, joining me. I'm very pleased to 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:56.000 say Vincegnarella, Bloomberg macro strategist. Really interesting story. Instagram is 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:58.879 getting into e commerce. If you like it, click it 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:02.720 and buy it actually on the site. Uh, this is new. 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:06.080 They are unveiling this. It's already moving markets, with Shopify 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:09.200 following the most in two weeks. Uh say after RBC 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:12.159 said the e retailer could be hurt by the launch 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:16.040 of this program, which is called checkout on Instagram. Sarah 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:20.280 Fryer joining us now, who covers all things tech for Bloomberg, Sarah, 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:25.560 what exactly is Instagram checkout? Instagram checkout allows people to 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:31.320 actually purchase products from their Instagram app and do it 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:33.919 all there. In the past, they had a way for 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:37.239 you to see a product, identify it, and then go 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:41.439 to the retailer's website. Uh. Really, what checkout does is 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:44.680 give Instagram a new line of revenue, a new line 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:47.639 of business which is going to be incredibly important to 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:50.440 the future of the company. So, Sarah, I'm getting the 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:52.320 feeling there's gonna be a lot of butt buying on 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:57.359 this app. Is there is there any sort of interface 0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:02.439 that sorry, mom, I butt bought right. Um, Look, I 0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:04.359 had a mechanic by a card in an auction by accident. 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:06.240 He was looking at it put in his pocket and 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:09.199 then he was stuck with well, first you have to 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:11.960 give Facebook your credit card members. I wonder how many 0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:14.720 people will want to do that. Good point, really good points. 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:16.639 So that I mean is that one of the is 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:18.000 that one of the issues is that like the first 0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:20.920 thing you have to do is is turn over your well, 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:23.160 I mean, you have to purchase something on the app. 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:27.560 You know. Here, here's the thing. This is the most 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:32.480 promising business besides advertising for Facebook, and advertising is what's 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:35.960 gotten Facebook into so much trouble. And of course I 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:40.320 should note Instagram is owned by Facebook, um and and 0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:42.920 this is this is something they can do without having 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:48.560 to collect data or um get built up into that 0:22:48.600 --> 0:22:51.600 system that's getting so much criticism right now. So it's 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:53.800 good for them to try something new. It's also the 0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:58.720 news feed, the Facebook news feed is losing traction with people. Well. 0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:01.200 But it does raise a question though on a broader level, 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:05.119 because Facebook, the parent company of Instagram, getting your credit 0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:08.159 card information at a time when they're under increasing scrutiny, 0:23:08.640 --> 0:23:15.680