1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Penel Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney along 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: with my co host Lisa Brahma Wolds. Each day we 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for you 4 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: and your money, whether at the grocery store or the 5 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: trading floor. Find a Bloomberg penl podcast on Apple podcast 6 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as at 7 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com. For once the pound is not doing anything. 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,319 Speaker 1: I'm Lisa bram Woyds, Vince Ignarella, Bloomberg Macro Strategies, joining 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: me here up Paul Sweeney out on a much deserved vacation. 10 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: It has been an incredibly volatile period for the pound, 11 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: for sterling uh today people are not sure what to make. 12 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 1: European Union leaders are planning to offer the U hate 13 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: conditional Broxit extension at this week's summit in Brussels, widely 14 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: expected in markets. The question is though, going forward, what 15 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: this means for what kind of Brexit we're going to get? 16 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: And to answer that question and tell us exactly what 17 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: we can expect and look into the crystal ball is 18 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: John Authors, who joins is here in our interactive Broker Studios. 19 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: So John is the senior editor for Bloomberg Market, What 20 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: do you think what's going on here? How much creed 21 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: this do we put into a delay getting a better 22 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: Brexit deal a delay? Well, there's no deal that's possible 23 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: other than the one that Teresa May has already negotiated 24 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: without a delay. So if you have more of a 25 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: positive polyannerish attitude towards this, then plainly a delay should 26 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: be able to improve the ultimate outcome. So there is 27 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: that element of positivity. That said, the government's strategy throughout 28 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: has been to work on the assumption that any delay 29 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: is going to be seen as a betrayal. That is 30 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: a big part of why it doesn't want to delay 31 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: if it's all possible. Uh and adds to that that 32 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: the the clear Are deadline has been used as a 33 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: negotiating tactic. Now, what's interesting in the last few days 34 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: is that that's deadline did appear at last to be working. 35 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: We heard quite a number of very aggressively hard line 36 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: pro Brexit MPs beginning to suggest that they would vote 37 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: for this rather than take the risk of leaving without 38 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: an odeal, or perhaps more importantly for them, taking the 39 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: risk that they would end up without a Brexits at 40 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: all um. So that then leads to the very intriguing 41 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: UH parliamentary drama we had yesterday when the Speaker decided 42 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: that we wouldn't be able to have another vote on 43 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: this unless tourism you can get another deal. I think 44 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: having you wanted me to answer the question, and obviously 45 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: I can't, because nobody can. I think what's most I 46 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: think what's most likely. I think what's most likely at 47 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: this point is in the next week that Europe comes 48 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: up with something that is enough of an excuse for 49 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: Terisa May to ask for another vote, that we get 50 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: one more vote, probably next week. I think the odds 51 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: are still narrowly on that vote failing. I the Brexit 52 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: deal that we've got ahead of us, which from the 53 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: markets is a point of view, is a very good 54 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: one because it leaves Britain basically in economic terms in 55 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: Europe and from the point that brick Steers terms, it's 56 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: a very bad deal, but from market terms it's a 57 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: very good deal. The most likely scenario is that that 58 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: still narrowly gets down and at that point we have 59 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: to have a long delay. So with the delay in 60 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: the potential vote next week, there's some talk that what 61 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: the you will propose is making some consolation to the delay, 62 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: adding that to me is deal and would that be 63 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: enough to get past Barkau to give her the opportunity 64 00:03:58,240 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: for a vote next week? What do you think they 65 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: need to come up with something substantially different. They can't 66 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: come up with something substantially different in the time available, 67 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: and he won't he won't allow it anyway. I this 68 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: is we're in the realm of politics. We're in We're 69 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: in a country that doesn't have a constitution. Um. This 70 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: is a precedent. It's an extremely strong precedent that dates 71 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: back to the very early years of James the First, 72 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: who came after Elizabeth the First talking about British politics. 73 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: It takes its Yeah, it's fun um that. But but 74 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: the constitution. Our constitution is a fluid document, which is 75 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: to say, it doesn't exist, so you can you can 76 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: alter it if you absolutely have to. Berko at this 77 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: point is in a political situation. If it is obvious, 78 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: um that there is will to have a vote, he 79 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: probably will take an excuse to bend and vote. The 80 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: other important points to note is that there are ways 81 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: around it. If you really want a glorious British possibility 82 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: to it is a make could always call an enter 83 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: this parliamentary session and start a new one, the only 84 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: problem there being that she has to get the Queen 85 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: to agree to come and give a new speech, because 86 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 1: this is like Alice in Wonderland. This is like literally 87 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: the tea party at Alice in Wonderland. If she shakes 88 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: her hand like this and says abra cadabra, they can 89 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,799 Speaker 1: restart it. And John Burko doesn't have like to stand 90 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 1: on this is crazy? No, why doesn't she just do that? 91 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: Be it is crazy? Well, she's the Queen is a 92 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: nice old lady in her nineties. We don't really want 93 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: to drag her around the streets of London and sticker 94 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: in the throne. It's got to wear quite a heavy 95 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 1: crown whilst he gives that speech. So so we've got 96 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 1: to be polite to polite to her while we were 97 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: at it. That that's that's one point. I mean. The 98 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: other point is thank you, and the other point for 99 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: anybody out there, thank you. The other points. The other point, 100 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: which is more serious, is that you can get Parliament 101 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: to vote to override the normal rule as that if 102 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: a majority of Parliament can vote to override the speaker. However, 103 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: they have to be sure that that that somebody has 104 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: to organize them to do that, and in principle, you 105 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: can only get that if you have already assured yourself 106 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: that a majority of people will actually use that vote 107 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: to change their mind. I mean you're speaking about the politics. 108 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: This is a rule that really hasn't been used since 109 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: I understand, Um. I think that's well, yes, but that's 110 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 1: partly because generally speaking, if you've lost once, you don't 111 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: dr going back to the world. I mean, I mean 112 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: you mean giving moving on from Lewis Carroll, I've I've 113 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 1: drawn the analogy and others have to to Terisa Ma 114 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: of Terisa Ma to Monty Python's Black Nighty has both 115 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: his arms and both his legs cut off and still 116 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: doesn't know he's beaten, and he says, come back here 117 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: and I'll bite your legs. Basic just a fasturants butter 118 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: scratch um. Most most British prime ministers are not gluttons 119 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: for punishments and don't actually keep putting exactly the same 120 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: vote to the MPs when they've lost already. So yes, 121 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: it hasn't been in vote since then, but in general 122 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: is speaking people you don't it's not something you need 123 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: to invoke. People don't like losing more than once on 124 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: the same issue. John Authors are Monty Python correspondent U 125 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: here at Bloomberg LP, joining us here in our eleven 126 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: three our studios. John Author is a senior editor of 127 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Markets and h Brexit does draw natural comparisons to 128 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: Louis Carroll and Monty Python. At this point, I was 129 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: actually just trying to picture the Queen with their staff 130 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: whacking Burko over the head for dragging her out in amazing. 131 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: That's absolutely amazing. With her heavy crown, I actually think 132 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: she would just give him the look of death. Absolutely, 133 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: it would. It would be worth it would be it 134 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: would be worth it. I am Lisa Bramoys, Paul Sweetie 135 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: on vacation, Vince Saignarella, I'm so glad to say Bloomberg 136 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: Macro Strategies joining me here in our Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studios. 137 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: You know, it's really interesting when you talk about recycling, 138 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: do you ever wonder where does it go? Takes it? 139 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,079 Speaker 1: I think this is a fascinating story. It's fascinating right 140 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: and and for years it was China and they have 141 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: stopped taking our trash, and there is a question is 142 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: it even worth recycling anymore? And our people recycling or 143 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: are frankly waste management companies just throwing the stuff away? 144 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: Joining us down to discuss. Brent Bell, vice president of 145 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: recycling at Waste Management based in Houston, joining us by phone. Brent, 146 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 1: what's the answer to this? As China refuses to take 147 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: our trash? Are we just throwing stuff away rather than 148 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: recycling it ourselves? Now? You know we're we're still recycling 149 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: a waste management We had had to find alternative markets though, 150 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: because China was accepting of the material we shipped over 151 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: there in historical high years. Now they're down about three percent. 152 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: So we really had to look worldwide to find other 153 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: markets for the mixed paper, the cardboard, and the fiber 154 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: that China was consuming for so many years. And what 155 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: are those markets? Are you? What are you're saying? We're 156 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: still exporting globally, just not to China to other countries. 157 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: That's that's right. So India some other parts of Southeast 158 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: Asia have really stepped up. We developed those markets years ago, 159 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: knowing that the dependence on China was was somewhat, Uh, 160 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: you know something that we knew at some point we'd 161 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: end you know, they talked about it for years, from 162 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: environmental concerns due to high contamination levels on reducing the 163 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: amount of imports that they would take. And it's it's 164 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: a global issue, so it's not just us to China, 165 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: it's other countries going into China. We've all had to 166 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: shift and find alternative markets. And then even domestically, you're 167 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 1: seeing a lot of new expansion domestically in paper mills, 168 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,839 Speaker 1: which we haven't seen in decades. Are other markets more 169 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: expensive than China? So I would I would say they 170 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: right now that prices are a lot lower than other 171 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: than China was China is always a premium buyer for 172 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: these type of materials, and other markets with it's India, 173 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: Southeast Asia. Even here domestically, because of the recent oversupply 174 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: situation caused by China, we haven't seen a lot lower 175 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: prices on the commodity side. So that creates a definite 176 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: price and balance, right if people are paying less for it, 177 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: but the cost of recycling goes up, that's the conundrum 178 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: you have as to what do you do with the 179 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,079 Speaker 1: stuff if it just costs more to recycle than effectively 180 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:41,839 Speaker 1: throwing it away. Exactly, today, are processing costs at our facilities, 181 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: you know, exceed the value those commodities by by you know, 182 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: ten to twin dollars per ton, which means that they, ultimately, 183 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: the customers degenerates those materials, has to pay that difference. 184 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: Where historically their business models, whether that's the municipality or 185 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: commercial customer, relied on these commodity prices. It's somewhat you know, 186 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: subsidize some of their budgets, and actually there was money 187 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: coming into them for so many years. Now it's money 188 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: calling out to pay for the processing costs. So, Brent, 189 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: there was an article in the Atlantic magazine in the 190 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: past a week or so. Is this the end of recycling? 191 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: That was the title of the article, and it was 192 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: talking about how Americans are throwing more and more stuff 193 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: away and there are fewer countries that actually want to 194 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: take this stuff. You are saying, you sound constructive that 195 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: you're still recycling, but is there sort of a diminishing effect? 196 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: Are people recycling less than they did, say a year 197 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: ago or two? So I think the big part now 198 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: is people are recycling as much or more, But some 199 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: of the materials are putting in the stream is contaminated. 200 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: So what we're trying to do now is go through 201 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: an education program to make sure that they understand what 202 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: the right materials are to put in those materials to 203 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: begin with, in their in the recycling bins to begin with. 204 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: But I do think that whether you're selling material or 205 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: paper mills are here in the US or India, they 206 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: all expect a much higher quality of the material than 207 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: ever before. So it almost seems like this should be 208 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 1: part of the conversation that everyone speaking about about green 209 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: deals and and green products. It does if we're polluting, 210 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: if you will, with plastics and recyclables certainly doing other 211 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: things to the environment, it's it's not a trade off. 212 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: It seems like we should be getting to start where 213 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: the problem first started, right. That's right. And I think 214 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: you hit the nail on the head a few minutes 215 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,959 Speaker 1: ago when you mentioned the supply and balance is so many. 216 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: For so many years we've had our customers want to 217 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: have higher diversion rates and produce more recycling. What we 218 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: haven't focused heavily on that we need to is on 219 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: the brands and the manufacturers to use more recycled content. 220 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: We need to create that demand situation which has really 221 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: dropped off today and that's what's caused lower prices. But 222 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: if we can encourage our customers to use more recycled content, 223 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 1: to support brands that have recycled content in their in 224 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: their products and packaging, that will help create this demand. 225 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: It's so needed right now. Thank you so much for 226 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: being with us. UH. This is a really important issue 227 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: and hopefully we will hear from you again. Brent Bell 228 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: is vice president of recycling at Waste Management based in Houston, Vince. 229 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: I find it fascinating because this is such a consumption 230 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 1: based society and you have to wonder when you do 231 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: spend that time sorting things into the different bins, do 232 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: they just end up throwing it away? Yeah, and you 233 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: know you do. That pollution issue is really important because 234 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: people don't really look at all the times at what 235 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: they're recycling and they said, well, if it's plastic or 236 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: if it's metal, then it certainly must go in the bin, 237 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: but not necessarily. And they're also is an eddication issue 238 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: with respect to cleaning some of these UH plastics or 239 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: other containers. Right. We have to actually it can be 240 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: really difficult, right, especially that at the grease just sort 241 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: of like stays in the cracks. And then if you 242 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: spend a lot of time using the water, are you 243 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: wasting the water and the heat? I mean, I give 244 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: this way too much. You can tell on neurotic I 245 00:13:54,559 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: am yeah. Vince Signerella alongside me today Bloomberg Bacross strategist 246 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: Paul Sweeney on vacation. I am so happy you're here. Uh. 247 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: We were talking about bitcoin a lot over the past 248 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: eighteen months, or maybe eighteen months ago when the price 249 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: of a bitcoin was more than four times as much 250 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: as it is currently currently trading less than four thousand 251 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: dollars each. But there is a question what is the 252 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: future of cryptocurrencies as enthusiasm Waynes joining us now did 253 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: it weigh in? Is Eric Lavek. He is chief executive 254 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: of Ledger based in Paris, but he joins us here 255 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: in our Bloomberg Atta Active Broker Studios. Tell us a 256 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: little bit about what Ledger is and how it fits 257 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: into this cryptocurrency world at a time of transition. I 258 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: would argue, yeah, Ledger is a security company, technology company 259 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: providing with hardware, wallets and all technologies to secure a 260 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: bitcoin and crypto assets. Because it's a complex asset, you 261 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: need to secure it, and so we are a global 262 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: leader writing solutions for individuals and enterprises. So what has 263 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: it done for your business? The fact that there has 264 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: been this sort of dropped enthusiasm cbo just saying they're 265 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: not going to trade futures contracts had a bit quite 266 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: anymore just in the past few days. Well, we have 267 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: a lot of enterprises and financial institutions working with us, 268 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: and we have despite the collapse of the price in 269 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: the recent months, the strategies are still very strong. So 270 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: if cbo IS is stopping their futures, maybe first it 271 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: can push up the price because you cannot shut it anymore. 272 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: But also most of the financial institutions have a very 273 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: strong strategy for the future of crypto because it's not 274 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: only decentralized crypt occurrencies, it's also the chanization and basically 275 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: they really want to build a new backup fees based 276 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: on this technology. Yeah. I think we were just talking 277 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: about that off the year that the fact that sebo 278 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: stepped out is actually potentially a good opportunity for bitcoin 279 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: to rise again because as soon as they came in 280 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: with that future, it gave traders an opportunity to short 281 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: the physical uh if you will, the technology physical, and 282 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: and that is almost immediately after the price came down. 283 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: Is now that they've stepped out, there is an opportunity 284 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: for traders to get back in and play bitcoin the 285 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: way they did before. See bow Baby Sebo stepping out. 286 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: But you have firms like JP Morgan Chase stepping in 287 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: and saying they want to develop their own digital currency. 288 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: So this is definitely a positive for you and for 289 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: the future of the company. No, yeah, clearly. Uh. We 290 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: have seen a lot of ups and downs when the 291 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: price shoot to the moon. The sales of our hardware 292 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: while it's went through the roof as well. We were 293 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: planning to sell sty thousand units we and it selling 294 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: one million. So with the price going down, it's the opposite. 295 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: But we see a lot of opportunities, as always saying 296 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,919 Speaker 1: on the enterprises because the future is really aligned with 297 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: cryptocurrencies dochanization, uh, and they don't want to miss the 298 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: next wave. There's an irony here that crypto assets are 299 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: not physical, they are digital, and yet there is a 300 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:25,959 Speaker 1: need for a physical accessibility or or storage of a 301 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: bitcoin in a way that can create security. Can you 302 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,360 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that? And now it's sort 303 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: of uh, it's it's challenging for people to get the 304 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 1: same kind of security. It is cybersetting without the physical. Yeah, 305 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,360 Speaker 1: contrary to what we think when we say virtual currencies, 306 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 1: or used to say virtual currencies before crypto assets, it's 307 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: in fact very physical. When you own bitcoins or any 308 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 1: crypto assets, what you really own is the private key. 309 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: It's a piece of information. It's something that you can 310 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: write on a piece of paper, something that you can 311 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: even engrave in the plate of steel, input in a safe. 312 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: So it's like cash or it's physical. It's like Beerer bones, 313 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: and so you need to protect them. You cannot have 314 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 1: them on your PC or your smartphone because then you 315 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: can get hacked. That's why you need a secure device 316 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: which is built on smart cards, which is going to 317 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: allow security. It's like a fortress for your bitcoins. So 318 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 1: like on that subject, because I just find the whole 319 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 1: thing fascinating. There's been so many stories of people embezzling 320 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: and and I think something that is still eight fifty 321 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 1: million dollars goes missing every year from bitcoin wallets here, 322 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: there and everywhere. If it's in your wallet, if it's 323 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: in your company's wallet and somebody then does hack your 324 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: phone or your computer, explain to me how that remains 325 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: protected if they've they've got access to it, but they 326 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 1: don't have access to it. Well, if you are an enterprise, 327 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,239 Speaker 1: you need to have governance to manage your funds. So 328 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: you really when we deploy your solutions, you will have 329 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: multi signature timelocks. You will have a lot of feature 330 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 1: that will prevent a single point of failure because when 331 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: you want to manage these assets as a price, you 332 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: need to have rules. And this is the technology that 333 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: we are providing because if you imagine that you will 334 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: have only a safe with one key, then the problem 335 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: is not really I t The problem is the process 336 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: because to whom do you give access to the fund? 337 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: I mean to the safe. What happens if there is 338 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 1: a hostage situation, if the CFO runs with the safe itself. 339 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 1: That's why you need you need these layers of governance. 340 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: And when you have multi signature, then you can have 341 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,360 Speaker 1: like protections thanks to all the process you can put 342 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: in place and just real quickly thirty seconds. Here this 343 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: product the larger nano X, which is a Bluetooth enabled 344 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: hardware wallet. You just introduced it at c e S 345 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: just real quick. Was there a lot of enthusiasm? Was 346 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: there more than you expected or or was there waiting 347 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: because of what's going on in cryptoconomy. Yeah, it was 348 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: a lot of enthusiasm, which was very good because despite 349 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: the drop in price, people are still using our products, 350 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,199 Speaker 1: and the nano X with bluetooth lows management on the go. 351 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: You can have your mobile phone, your smartphone, you Apple, 352 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: you Enoid, and so people are enthusiastic because they will 353 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: be able to use it much easier than before. Cryptocurrencies 354 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 1: aren't dead yet, and people are definitely looking for ways 355 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 1: to make sure that their assets are not stolen. Erica K, 356 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us, Chief executive 357 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,959 Speaker 1: officer of Ledger, normally based in Paris, but joining us 358 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: here in New York. I'm Lisa Abramo. It's Vincegnarella joining 359 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: me today. This is Bloomberg Paul Sweeney off today on 360 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: a much deserve vacation, joining me. I'm very pleased to 361 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: say Vincegnarella, Bloomberg macro strategist. Really interesting story. Instagram is 362 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 1: getting into e commerce. If you like it, click it 363 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: and buy it actually on the site. Uh, this is new. 364 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: They are unveiling this. It's already moving markets, with Shopify 365 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: following the most in two weeks. Uh say after RBC 366 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: said the e retailer could be hurt by the launch 367 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: of this program, which is called checkout on Instagram. Sarah 368 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: Fryer joining us now, who covers all things tech for Bloomberg, Sarah, 369 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: what exactly is Instagram checkout? Instagram checkout allows people to 370 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: actually purchase products from their Instagram app and do it 371 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 1: all there. In the past, they had a way for 372 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,239 Speaker 1: you to see a product, identify it, and then go 373 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 1: to the retailer's website. Uh. Really, what checkout does is 374 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 1: give Instagram a new line of revenue, a new line 375 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: of business which is going to be incredibly important to 376 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: the future of the company. So, Sarah, I'm getting the 377 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: feeling there's gonna be a lot of butt buying on 378 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: this app. Is there is there any sort of interface 379 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 1: that sorry, mom, I butt bought right. Um, Look, I 380 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: had a mechanic by a card in an auction by accident. 381 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: He was looking at it put in his pocket and 382 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,199 Speaker 1: then he was stuck with well, first you have to 383 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: give Facebook your credit card members. I wonder how many 384 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: people will want to do that. Good point, really good points. 385 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: So that I mean is that one of the is 386 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: that one of the issues is that like the first 387 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: thing you have to do is is turn over your well, 388 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: I mean, you have to purchase something on the app. 389 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: You know. Here, here's the thing. This is the most 390 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: promising business besides advertising for Facebook, and advertising is what's 391 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: gotten Facebook into so much trouble. And of course I 392 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: should note Instagram is owned by Facebook, um and and 393 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: this is this is something they can do without having 394 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: to collect data or um get built up into that 395 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: system that's getting so much criticism right now. So it's 396 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: good for them to try something new. It's also the 397 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: news feed, the Facebook news feed is losing traction with people. Well. 398 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: But it does raise a question though on a broader level, 399 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 1: because Facebook, the parent company of Instagram, getting your credit 400 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: card information at a time when they're under increasing scrutiny, 401 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: uh for failing on privacy concerns. Really yeah, I mean 402 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: it The thing. The thing you have to remember though 403 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: is consumers think of Instagram as a separate entity in 404 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: their minds. I think of it as a separate brand. 405 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: So While people might not trust Facebook, they certainly trust 406 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: and love Instagram. So it creates this weird dichotomy where 407 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: Instagram is able to launch and succeed with products that 408 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: Facebook maybe couldn't. So we um we're getting in Jeff 409 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: Bezos face here with the Amazon and Amazon Prime with 410 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: a product like this, It's very different because what Instagram's 411 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 1: check out product is going to be about is you're 412 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: scrolling for your feed, you see something that inspires you, 413 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:57,439 Speaker 1: and then you save it, maybe you shared. One of 414 00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,360 Speaker 1: the actions you can take is to buy it. That's 415 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: very different than an Amazon where you know exactly what 416 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: you want, like I want more black T shirts and 417 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: you go on Amazon, you search for it and you 418 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 1: find the best one. This is going to be about 419 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: seeing things in a lifestyle setting that inspires you to 420 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: look like that person. Honestly, I think it's going to 421 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 1: be so tied to the influencer market, uh, people able 422 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: to sell their own goods after they've become famous. So 423 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 1: more of an impulse purchase. I think more of an 424 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: impulse purchase more like I want to be like that 425 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: person who's wearing this dress. What does this say about 426 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: Facebook strategy? More broadly, to increase revenues and sort of 427 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:44,919 Speaker 1: Claude's way back into a better, better, better opinion in 428 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,439 Speaker 1: the public eye. Well, Facebook is in trouble because I 429 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: mean not if you look at their numbers, but if 430 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: you think about the future of their numbers. They're in 431 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: trouble because news feed and Facebook itself is not going 432 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: to grow at the rate it used to because it's 433 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: already reached so much saturation around the world. So they 434 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: have to come up with more in different business models 435 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,400 Speaker 1: in order to deliver to Wall Street the growth they're 436 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: used to seeing. And e commerce is something that they've 437 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: talked about, is is something that could work. They're also 438 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: trying things within messaging products. They're also trying maybe they'll 439 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: do some some money exchange on WhatsApp, but e commerce 440 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: is the one on Instagram that's most likely to actually 441 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: work in advertising. Sarah, what are the additional regulatory hurdles 442 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: that Facebook faces when you start talking about financial products, 443 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: when you start talking about giving you over your credit 444 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 1: card to Facebook. Well, they've done it sort of sneakily, right. 445 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever been asked to to 446 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 1: donate to a friends cause for their birthday on Facebook. 447 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: That's a way for Facebook to get your credit card number. 448 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: I mean there there's some ways that that they've tied 449 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: it in to their product that seemed very unscary, but 450 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,679 Speaker 1: then when you step back and think about it, you 451 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: realize what you're giving away, um, and so you know, 452 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: I think that that is it's not going to become 453 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: totally clear to people exactly what the consequences are for 454 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: these kinds of products until a couple of years later, 455 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: which is what we saw happen with Facebook using developers 456 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: making games on their platforms, when that didn't become a 457 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: problem until years after it was over. So what I 458 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: guess the target market for this is like year olds. Yeah, 459 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,360 Speaker 1: it's everyone who tries to be inspired by products on Instagram, 460 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: and I think it's the most natural place for people 461 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: to be, uh thinking about what they want to buy. Already, 462 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:51,199 Speaker 1: people follow influencers so often for for recommendations on what 463 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 1: to where, what to buy, what to eat, what to 464 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: put on their faces. You know, there's so many makeup 465 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,400 Speaker 1: influencers out there, and so many of those high profile 466 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: people now have their own product lines. If you have 467 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: a famous dog that you follow on Instagram, you probably 468 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: see that they have merchandise you can buy that. You know, 469 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: you can buy their dog face on a mug. I mean, 470 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 1: all these things will be so much easier to do 471 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,479 Speaker 1: now that that Instagram has integrated shopping into it and 472 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: is taking a cut well. In other tech news, Sarah, 473 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,479 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna throw you a curveball, but I'm wondering 474 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 1: if you have any opinion on this news coming out 475 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: the Republican Representative Devon Juniaz of at California is suing 476 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: Twitter and several of its users from more than million 477 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: dollars for parity accounts of his mom, Devin uing his 478 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: mom Devnu in his cow. It's just sort of interesting. 479 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: It shows, I mean, let's show us how personal this is. Listen. 480 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:55,199 Speaker 1: I sat in one of these hearings. Are listened to 481 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: so many of these congressional hearings on Facebook. You know, 482 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: people who are members of our government who say they're 483 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: trying to hold Facebook accountable, and so often the question 484 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: that gets asked is why don't I get as much 485 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: reach as I used to? Why are these bad things 486 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: happening to me on my account? It's basically, you know, 487 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,640 Speaker 1: complaints and tech support and and people's support congressional hearings 488 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: on tech support love it is it is. I mean 489 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 1: it's it's like it's like, why why don't I get 490 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 1: as many likes as I used to? And and it 491 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 1: is really just like people don't understand how these algorithms work. 492 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: They don't understand how these products are are built in 493 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: this way that is so not not human. Uh, they're frustrated. 494 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: Sarah Fryar, thank you so much for joining us. Sarah Fryar, 495 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: technology reporter for Bloomberg News. Joining us from there Bloomberg 496 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: nine sixties Studio in San Francisco. Thanks for listening to 497 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg P and L podcast. You can subscribe and 498 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 1: listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform 499 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: you prefer. Paul Sweeney, I'm on Twitter at PTS. I'm 500 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: Lisa abram Woods. I'm on Twitter at Lisa abramo Woods. 501 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: One before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide 502 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio