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Speaker 1: Hey, Brian, Hi Katie. So while we're on our summer break,

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Speaker 1: we've been revisiting some of our favorite episodes of this show,

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Speaker 1: but it'd be nice to mix it up a little

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Speaker 1: bit this week. And I know just the way to

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Speaker 1: do that, Brian. How about giving Alan Alda a call.

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Speaker 1: Alan Alda is and the actor from Mash and thirty

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Speaker 1: Rock and The West Wing and about a million other

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Speaker 1: shows I love. Yes, but we were supposed to call

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Speaker 1: him ten minutes ago. Oops hove Hello, Hi Alan Alda.

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Speaker 1: In the category of better late than never, it's Katie Currak.

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Speaker 1: How are you, Katie? I'm great. How are you doing?

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Speaker 1: So nice to hear your voice. And I'm here with

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Speaker 1: my colleague Brian Goldsmith, who's also my podcast co host,

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Speaker 1: who is a gigantic fan of yours. Brian, Meet Allan.

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Speaker 1: I don't know whether to call you Allan or Senator

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Speaker 1: Arnie Vinnick. But that goes back to my West Wing days. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think Allen is probably good. Now, I'm not I'm

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Speaker 1: not I'm not rich stuff like a senator. What are

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Speaker 1: you wearing? You know? That's I reserve that for text

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Speaker 1: communications or sex communications as and certainly devolving but Alan,

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Speaker 1: our podcast is going to be taking a summer break,

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Speaker 1: but we still want to give our audience something wonderful

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Speaker 1: to listen to. And we've heard so much about your podcast,

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Speaker 1: and we thought, why not steal an episode of Alan show?

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Speaker 1: What do you think? I think that's so great of you.

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Speaker 1: I love it. I love I'd love the chance to

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Speaker 1: introduce our podcast to your audience. Are you enjoying this

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Speaker 1: whole new medium. I can't tell you. I'm enjoying it

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Speaker 1: more than I thought I would, And I mean I

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Speaker 1: thought i'd enjoy it, but this is just wonderful. We have.

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Speaker 1: I enjoy the conversations I have. We have wonderful conversationalists

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Speaker 1: on and we talk about this subject that I'm obsessed with,

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Speaker 1: which is relating to other people when communicating the hard

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Speaker 1: things to them. And you've been obsessed with that for

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Speaker 1: quite a while. I know that sort of the art

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Speaker 1: of conversation and communication is something you've been focused on

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Speaker 1: for for a few years now, right, really at least

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Speaker 1: twenty five years, because I've started working on that when

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Speaker 1: I was interviewing scientists on the Science Program on PBS,

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Speaker 1: which I did for eleven or twelve years, and then

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Speaker 1: I started. I helped start a Center for Communicating Science

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Speaker 1: at Stony Brook University. So we've been training scientists to

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Speaker 1: communicate better and medical professionals all over the world, thousands

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Speaker 1: of them. And now it's just pure fun talking to

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Speaker 1: people like Sarah Silverman, and it's a permanent judge Judy

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Speaker 1: and people that you don't even know so well, like

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you heard this. Kate Bowler is

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Speaker 1: a writer who has UH fatal illness and she wrote

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Speaker 1: a really funny book and we have a really wonderful

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Speaker 1: conversation about the terrible ways people have tried to cheer

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Speaker 1: her up. I bet that's sort of funny and sad

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Speaker 1: at the same time. But yeah, it's very emotional. Clearly,

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Speaker 1: you're trying to be instructive through your art of conversation.

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Speaker 1: You're trying to broach how to have a conversation, which

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Speaker 1: is a really interesting concept. You know. It's that's right

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Speaker 1: because it's not didactic, it's not a lecture. It's it's

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Speaker 1: pure conversation and it and it takes place on both

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Speaker 1: sides of the microphone. I mean, I'm I'm conversing with them,

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Speaker 1: I'm not interviewing them. Not asking them a list of questions,

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Speaker 1: and things come up that neither one of us expected.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's it's alive, and that's why I'm having

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Speaker 1: such a wonderful time. And they get surprises, you know.

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Speaker 1: I talked to Renee Fleming, who's doing this wonderful thing

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Speaker 1: about exploring with with scientists to healing power of music,

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Speaker 1: and this you'll love. I didn't expect this to come

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Speaker 1: out of her. Sometimes when she's recognized, when she's out

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Speaker 1: in public, people come up to her and say, I

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Speaker 1: love you, Katie Kirk. I know, isn't that funny. I

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Speaker 1: was actually near Lincoln Center and someone came up to

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Speaker 1: me and said, Renee Fleming, I love you so much.

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Speaker 1: And I said, gosh, I can't sing a note, but

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Speaker 1: thank you, or you should just say thank you anyway.

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Speaker 1: And then the person thought, my god, Renee Fleming can't sing.

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Speaker 1: Alan Um, that's been I'm afraid of. People come up

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Speaker 1: to me and tell me that they love my work,

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Speaker 1: and then they call me Alan Arkin and sometimes they

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Speaker 1: even get his mail. Wow, Alan, I saw a New

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Speaker 1: York Post headline that called you the world's oldest millennial.

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Speaker 1: I thought that was my job first of all. Second,

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Speaker 1: I just I've since computers came out, I've I've always

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Speaker 1: loved them. And and I tried to teach myself to

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Speaker 1: the program a computer that was so early that my

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Speaker 1: watch now has more computing power than that first computer.

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Speaker 1: But I love to fool around with it. As a

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Speaker 1: matter of fact, you know what I do. I fixed

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Speaker 1: my friends computers, so I have I have an imaginary

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Speaker 1: company called Celebrity Tech Support, And and the slogan is

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Speaker 1: why letting nobody touch your stuff? I like it. I

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Speaker 1: like it, but real quickly I know that that one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons I think they called you that is

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Speaker 1: also because you're into this sort of new medium of

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Speaker 1: podcasts compared to the other work you've done, which has

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Speaker 1: been extraordinary. Alan, what what is it about podcasting that

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Speaker 1: you're really enjoying? Is it being able to kind of

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Speaker 1: have a conversation that doesn't have a time limit. That's

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Speaker 1: a wonderful part of it. Uh is some thing about

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Speaker 1: it that's homegrown, even when it's done professionally. And that's

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Speaker 1: interesting because I used to notice when I'd be when

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Speaker 1: I'd be interviewed on a very big television show like

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Speaker 1: like The Tonight show, there was a lot of attention

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Speaker 1: to what was going to be said. It wasn't very spontaneous.

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Speaker 1: He's going to ask you this, you answer that like that? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I scripted. You know, they do a preus of view.

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Speaker 1: They find out what you have to say that might

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Speaker 1: be entertaining, and then they make sure you say it.

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Speaker 1: Whereas when I was on When I was on shows

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Speaker 1: that were less popular and therefore less stressful to the

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Speaker 1: produced producers, it was much more improvisational and much more fun,

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Speaker 1: and more unexpected things came out. And I think podcasts

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Speaker 1: are a little like that. Well, I know you had

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Speaker 1: a conversation on your podcast with Tina Fey, a fellow

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Speaker 1: uv A grad like me, um, and I think she's

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Speaker 1: so fantastic. So we thought we would run your conversation

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Speaker 1: with Tina Feye in place of one of our podcasts

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Speaker 1: while we take a break. What do you think, Oh,

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Speaker 1: that's wonderful. You know. The reason that the conversation with

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Speaker 1: Tina is so appropriate to my series is that I

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Speaker 1: learned so much about relating to other people from studying

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Speaker 1: and doing improvisation, and that's how Tina's started too. So

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Speaker 1: we both talk about improv but we even do some

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Speaker 1: in in the way that nobody's ever heard it before.

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Speaker 1: It I won't give it away, but this kind of funny.

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Speaker 1: But what how What about you with the podcast? What?

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Speaker 1: What's What's? What? What? Why do you think it's such

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Speaker 1: a good medium? What? What do you enjoy about it?

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Speaker 1: I think people are hungry for more depth and this

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Speaker 1: very sort of superficial society and media landscape that we've created,

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Speaker 1: where the news is so you know, seven and in

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Speaker 1: little snippets. I think the chance to really kind of

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Speaker 1: settle in listen and you know, feel close to a

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Speaker 1: conversation and learn something is extraordinarily appealing for a lot

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Speaker 1: of people, including my twenty two year old daughter. So

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Speaker 1: I think there's a hunger for I think there's a

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Speaker 1: hunger when we're out there, Alan, Yeah, I hear I

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Speaker 1: hear that same same response from from a wide range

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Speaker 1: of ages and experience. Well, people who are in their

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Speaker 1: twenties listen to us, and people in their eighties, and

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Speaker 1: and they're all interested in and just what you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: that conversational approach where things build on one another. Plus,

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Speaker 1: I think people must love hearing your voice because it's

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Speaker 1: so recognizable and I think, you know, I think it

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Speaker 1: probably you're the science person, but fires up neurons of

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Speaker 1: familiarity that actually produce endorphins. I'm just kind of making

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Speaker 1: this up, but it's doing it for me right now.

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Speaker 1: It's doing that for me right now. You have a

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Speaker 1: new field as a neuroscientist. I love. Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 1: Well listen, I've got to run, You've got to run.

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Speaker 1: But we were so grateful for you allowing us to

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Speaker 1: basically bogart one of your episodes and claim it as

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Speaker 1: our own. And if you ever take a break and

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Speaker 1: you want to throw one of our episodes in just

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Speaker 1: to mix things up a little bit, feel free. You're well,

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Speaker 1: I would love to, it would be great. I'd love

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Speaker 1: to have you on our series in any way possible. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'd love to come and talk to you personally, because

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Speaker 1: as you know, I'm a huge fan and a huge

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Speaker 1: longtime admirer of yours. And anyway, all the best, Alan, Hope,

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Speaker 1: I'll see you around town and h thank you so much,

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Speaker 1: thank you, Thanks, thank you to Brian the Senator, thank

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Speaker 1: you very much for coming on. Really appreciate it. Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, it's always about politics with this one. I'm

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Speaker 1: wearing my bathing suit. I'm not wearing a senator. That's

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Speaker 1: good to know. We'll go back into the pool. Okay,

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Speaker 1: talk to you later. Bye bye. Bryant. Isn't Alan all

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Speaker 1: the nicest person on the planet. He seems like it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, maybe he's an AX murderer in his private life,

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Speaker 1: but he seems really, really nice. I think he's nice

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Speaker 1: all the time. Anyway, Listeners will be back next week

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Speaker 1: with one more Summer Break podcast from the Vaults, but

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Speaker 1: for now, without further ado, here's Allen's conversation with the

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Speaker 1: one and only Tina Faye. Enjoy everyone, I'm Alan Alda

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Speaker 1: and this is clear and vivid conversations about connecting and communicating.

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Speaker 1: This conversation is with actor, writer, and producer and amazingly

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Speaker 1: talented person Tina Fay. You know teen of course, and

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Speaker 1: we're work on Saturday Night Live or best selling book

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Speaker 1: or movies and also for creating, starring and thirty Rock.

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Speaker 1: My conversation with Tina took place in front of a

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Speaker 1: live audience at the two thousand seventeen World Science Festival.

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Speaker 1: Good eating, Hi everybody, Hi Allen, how are you? It's

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Speaker 1: nice to be here on such a Great Day for

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Speaker 1: science A. Tina was supposed to be interviewing me about

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Speaker 1: my new book, but like many interviews, many many good interviews,

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Speaker 1: it turned out to be just a conversation between the

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Speaker 1: two of us. I think one of the key attributes

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Speaker 1: of good communication is people paying attention to each other.

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Speaker 1: But I mean really paying attention, really listening, not just

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Speaker 1: having dueling monologues. I'm kind of fascinated by the idea

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Speaker 1: that a fundamental tool used by actors, a kind of

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Speaker 1: deep listening, can be used by anyone. The way I

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Speaker 1: learned to was by studying improvisation, and although anyone can

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Speaker 1: apply these principles, it's always fun to run into someone

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Speaker 1: who learned it the way I did. It turns out

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Speaker 1: that Tinea Fa and I both began our careers in

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Speaker 1: the field of improvisation, and in fact with the same company,

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Speaker 1: the Second City. Tina worked in the Chicago company of

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Speaker 1: Second City and I worked in the New York company,

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Speaker 1: and we were both trained in improvisation by the great

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Speaker 1: Violas Boland. But Viola's improv training was not to teach

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Speaker 1: us how to be funny. Instead, it was all about

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Speaker 1: relating and connecting, which, of course is the subject of

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Speaker 1: these podcasts. At one point in our conversation, I told

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Speaker 1: Tina what a profound effect Violas Boland's improv training had

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Speaker 1: had on me, and not just as an actor, but

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Speaker 1: in my whole life, and I wondered if she'd felt

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Speaker 1: the same way I did. I felt that it was

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Speaker 1: completely transformatively. The one of the core ideas in improvisation

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Speaker 1: is is to agree to say yes, and right to

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Speaker 1: agree is the yes, and then the and is to

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Speaker 1: contribute something of your own. And it's something that once

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Speaker 1: you get in the habit of doing it as an improviser,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you find the same thing that

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Speaker 1: it's just the way you think about things. And if

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Speaker 1: you meet someone in in a work situation or someone

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Speaker 1: who who's starting from a place of no, like, well,

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Speaker 1: I don't think we're going to be able to do

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Speaker 1: that right, You're just like, oh, why would you? Why

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Speaker 1: would you start there? So I feel like it really sticks.

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Speaker 1: Did you feel the same, Oh? Very much so. Except

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Speaker 1: once in a while I think about this and I'm

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Speaker 1: I yes, and comes to mind often when I'm talking

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Speaker 1: to somebody. But if I'm talking to somebody who's saying

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Speaker 1: to me, you know, I was wearing my tinfoil hat

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Speaker 1: and it really helps. I want to be able to

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Speaker 1: say yes, and then I want to say and you're

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Speaker 1: completely crazy yes, and he's like yes and goodbye? Yes,

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Speaker 1: and oh come is my bus? Yeah, it's my bus

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Speaker 1: and we're not even on the street corn, So what

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Speaker 1: how do you handle that? Well? How do you? How

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Speaker 1: do you? What do you say yes too? I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to think of examples that, you know, for people are working,

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Speaker 1: Mostly it's sort of a production question where they'll say like, oh,

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Speaker 1: we couldn't possibly you know, we like your idea, but

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Speaker 1: we couldn't possibly get that done in time, and this

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Speaker 1: is not and it was to pause and say, well,

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Speaker 1: what if we let's just take a minute, and what

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Speaker 1: if we did that? You know, you just open your

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Speaker 1: mind up to being able to get things done. I

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Speaker 1: guess I guess it's possible to agree with some underlying

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Speaker 1: premise to like, yes, that's right, we gotta worry about time.

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Speaker 1: That's that's so important. Yes, how about if we do

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Speaker 1: this that we should save some time? Right right? Trying

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Speaker 1: to to to be to and to add because in

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Speaker 1: so many of us, and I hear myself saying I go,

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Speaker 1: I get the yes part, and then I say, but yes,

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Speaker 1: And that's a good substitute for no. Tina asked me

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Speaker 1: about the work we do with the Older Center for

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Speaker 1: Communicating Science, because improv is a key part of how

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Speaker 1: we trained scientists to talk to the rest of us

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Speaker 1: clearly and vividly. By now, the team at the Older

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Speaker 1: Center has trained over twelve thousand scientists. Have any of

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Speaker 1: the scientists left their careers to pursue improv full time?

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Speaker 1: You know our in our first in our first group, yes,

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Speaker 1: we had somebody, but he doesn't do it full time.

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Speaker 1: And I know a scientist in Israel who is a

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Speaker 1: great uh computer biologist what do you call it? Computational

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Speaker 1: biologists who improvises? What is a computational biologist? You stick

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Speaker 1: your hand in the computer, it tells you what's wrong,

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Speaker 1: something like that. I don't know. I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: show off, but I did sort of know that a

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Speaker 1: computational biologist uses computer algorithms to find patterns in biological systems.

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Speaker 1: But I wanted to get back to how my friend

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Speaker 1: the Israeli science is uses improv to help his team communicate.

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Speaker 1: So he improvises with an improvising troop every week, and

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Speaker 1: he uses improvising techniques to keep his team in the

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Speaker 1: in the lab, doing good teamwork and and helping them

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Speaker 1: motivate themselves. It's he uses improv the same way we

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Speaker 1: teach scientists to do it in our in our courses. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, I I believe improv can really work miracles.

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Speaker 1: It can connect people who cannot connect in any other way.

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Speaker 1: It uh, it keeps you tethered, It keeps you present,

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Speaker 1: and at a time when it's very increasingly difficult for

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Speaker 1: us all to be present with each other. Um So,

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Speaker 1: I think, my god, you're so smart to to figure

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Speaker 1: out that it came out of me. You know. It's

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Speaker 1: it's the process of improv is nation. What comes to

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Speaker 1: the surface is going to be good no matter what

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Speaker 1: it is. And if it turns out to really land

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Speaker 1: on people and you realize you're doing something, value will

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Speaker 1: when you do more of it. Yeah, that's all it is.

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Speaker 1: It's just following my nose. I had had to have

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Speaker 1: a daughter who when she was eight, she used to say,

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Speaker 1: I would say, I'm cold. My nose is so called

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Speaker 1: just sure your nose is cold. The circulation can't get

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Speaker 1: out that far. Don't you love it when kids are smart?

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Speaker 1: And why you like that? Yeah, it's not so long

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Speaker 1: you you you have an eleven year old, have an

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Speaker 1: eleven year old and a five year old to daughter,

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Speaker 1: and the eleven year old is doing something. Yes, I

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Speaker 1: tried to actually was applying a technique from Olen's book

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Speaker 1: last night on my eleven year old because she has

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Speaker 1: a very very large and serious presentation tomorrow about Finland

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Speaker 1: and I you would think she was trying to pass

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Speaker 1: the bar tomorrow, and so she has given eight minute

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Speaker 1: presentation in and so she she didn't want to do

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Speaker 1: it for us again. So anyway, so we we used

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Speaker 1: the technique in the book and asked her to give

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Speaker 1: us the presentation in gibberish, but for us to try

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Speaker 1: to still understand it. You know what gibberish is, right,

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Speaker 1: It sounds like a real language, but it's total nonsense.

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Speaker 1: I guess most people know what gibberish is, but I

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Speaker 1: wanted to make sure the audience understood how we use

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Speaker 1: it in improv Gibberish helps you use your whole body.

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Speaker 1: It gets it gets you out of the thing where

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Speaker 1: you you communicate. You feel so many of us think

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Speaker 1: that communication is getting the message right and saying the

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Speaker 1: exact right words and somehow that communicates what we want

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Speaker 1: to communter. In fact, it's everything. It's the tone of voice,

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Speaker 1: it's the look on our face, it's the body language

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Speaker 1: we use. All of that is really contributing an enormous

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Speaker 1: amount to what we're communicating and it can help the

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Speaker 1: people get it better. So what you want to do

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Speaker 1: a little like, well, we could do a little scene

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Speaker 1: and and do it in gibberish and make it a game,

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Speaker 1: because usually these are all in the form of games,

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Speaker 1: and you all could try to figure out what the

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Speaker 1: situation is, Well, who are these two people and what

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Speaker 1: what's happening between them? You may never get It depends

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Speaker 1: on how lucky we are. This is what we said

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Speaker 1: that we're going to do, right, Yeah, this is we have,

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Speaker 1: like our relationship and a situation which we have not rehearsed.

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Speaker 1: Because what did you get, George, Nick, you and your

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Speaker 1: border into the audience is having a little trouble figuring

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Speaker 1: out what our relationship is because we're basically just standing

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Speaker 1: there talking at each other. Our tone of voice isn't

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Speaker 1: yet communicating what's under the gibberish, and neither is our

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Speaker 1: body language. I just need. I seem to be imploring

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Speaker 1: her to do something, but it's not clear what the

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Speaker 1: list listen to delosophy. Finally, Tina follows a basic rule

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Speaker 1: in improv. When you're stuck, go to the place. Use

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Speaker 1: the place what violas Boland calls the where. So Tina

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Speaker 1: crosses the stage and does something with what seems to

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Speaker 1: be some sort of equipment, but I can't tell what

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Speaker 1: it is because her back is to me. I'm watching

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Speaker 1: her carefully, and I see her arms moving. I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to get as much information by observing as I can.

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Speaker 1: She comes back and she holds out her arms as

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Speaker 1: if to dance with me. I think she's been turning

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Speaker 1: on a record player over there, and now we're dancing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Blue Corret, you were for now. We were pretty Russian.

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Speaker 1: Our our show brush is pretty never know what you

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Speaker 1: never know? Where was any idea what was going on there?

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Speaker 1: Did anyone have any idea who those two people were

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Speaker 1: to each other, what their relationship might have been? An

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Speaker 1: old man whipped dementia. I think that was no, not

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Speaker 1: at all, man, But just keep guessing, neighbors. I want

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Speaker 1: to go to date teacher. Yes, it was the teacher right, Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: wants to go on a date with the students. Was

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Speaker 1: asking the teacher to go to prom good see. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But what's what's fun about this? Regardless of how many

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Speaker 1: people we conveyed to, what's fun is it was a

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Speaker 1: very hard thing to do. So we had to find

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Speaker 1: ways to physicalize it, to communicate it not only to

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Speaker 1: you watching, but to each other so we could move

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Speaker 1: through this encounter that we didn't know where it came

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Speaker 1: from or where it would go. That was a pretty

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Speaker 1: hard one. I never did one that hard. That was

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Speaker 1: a It was a very specific relationship. Sometimes when we're

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Speaker 1: trying to communicate something difficult, we seem to be speaking

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Speaker 1: gibberish without even knowing it. That's when we're using some

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Speaker 1: incomprehensible jargon. We started to talk about that and then

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Speaker 1: drifted away, but Tina brought us back. Let's talk some

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Speaker 1: more about jargon. Yeah, and how do you believe it

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Speaker 1: to be a curse? In some ways, every day you

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Speaker 1: run across some kind of jargon, and it makes sense

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Speaker 1: because if it takes five pages to say something you

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Speaker 1: can say in one word, then it makes sense to

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Speaker 1: use that word as long as you're talking to somebody

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Speaker 1: who knows what the word means. Yeah, well, thank goodness,

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Speaker 1: there's a small group of people who know what that means.

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Speaker 1: There is scuse. I was like, wow, you go into

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Speaker 1: the mat on that one. Do you? How do you

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Speaker 1: do when you hear scientific jargon? Do terribly? I am?

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I am do not think of myself as

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Speaker 1: a science person. I try not to even say that

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Speaker 1: out loud around my daughters because they like science and

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Speaker 1: I want them to continue. I take a science took

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Speaker 1: a science class with both of my daughters. It's like

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Speaker 1: across the street at the Natural History and I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: always wrong, I'm always answering in my head, and I'm

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Speaker 1: like Arthur pot Now I'm terrible with her, like I'm

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Speaker 1: the Converson. I can't memorize the names of flowers. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm bad at that too. Wife Arlene is so good

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Speaker 1: at that. So I make up names. Wow, look at

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Speaker 1: that great hydrofloxy. She knows I don't know anything, and

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Speaker 1: she just laughs at me. When we come back after

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Speaker 1: the break, Tina and I have a little surprise for

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Speaker 1: the audience. It's a special guest. I invite up from

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Speaker 1: the front growth Brian Green, the well known physicist and

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Speaker 1: best settling author. We're going to put him to a test.

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Speaker 1: We're going to see if he can explain some pretty

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Speaker 1: tough physics to Tina without ever lapsing into jargon and

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Speaker 1: the catches. Tina is going to have to actually know

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Speaker 1: what he's talking about. This was fun. Stay tuned, you're

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Speaker 1: listening to clear and Vivid and now back to my

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Speaker 1: conversation with Tina Faye. I bet if we worked on it,

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Speaker 1: If we worked on this, we could get somebody to

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Speaker 1: help you understand something really complicated. You could try. I

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Speaker 1: would be a really of a tough customer on it,

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Speaker 1: because I'm well be as tough as you tell me.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna just pick somebody who looks like a scientist

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Speaker 1: and you look at you. Are you as scientist? Would

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Speaker 1: you help us? Yeah? Now we've never met before. This

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Speaker 1: is the great Brian Green. As you won't hello Brian

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Speaker 1: to have a sheet? Let me hello? So do you

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Speaker 1: want to you want to get a topic maybe from

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Speaker 1: the audience brain that anybody. What are we gonna do

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Speaker 1: with the topic? You're going to explain something complicated to Tina,

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Speaker 1: and Tina has a buzzer here, and anything she doesn't understand,

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Speaker 1: she'll just she'll buzz you if she's not following. Remember

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Speaker 1: we said the whole point is to help the other

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Speaker 1: person follow you, So if she's not following you, she'll

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Speaker 1: let you know. You won't even have to read it

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Speaker 1: on her face. Should I test this? Okay, fantastic. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we can throw out some some topics. Yeah, a strength here.

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Speaker 1: I heard stringth here. Let's do that. I never never

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Speaker 1: explained that before, Like good one string theory. String theory, yes,

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Speaker 1: all right, so string theory, it's um our attempt to

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Speaker 1: unify the general theory of relativity and quantum mechanics in

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Speaker 1: a way I don't know anything. So so let's start

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Speaker 1: with general relativity. That's a theory of the force of gravity.

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Speaker 1: We got on gravity. Quantum mechanics is a theory of

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Speaker 1: matters very small scales, how the particles interact behave evolve

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Speaker 1: by the Shordinger equation. We don't need the shorten your equation.

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Speaker 1: So so our goal is to be able to have

425
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: a single theory that can put together the laws of

426
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: gravity and the laws of quantum physics. So we have

427
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: one unified mathematical description of everything in the physical universe. Oh,

428
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: that's pretty good. You got it. You got it, You

429
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: think you got it? You want it back? Yeah, tell

430
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 1: us string theory is your attempting to unify that's your word, uh,

431
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,880
Speaker 1: the theory of relativity and quantum physics that we said

432
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: so that you can use you can have one sort

433
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: of language to describe all of it. Wha, that's pretty good.

434
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: That's pretty good. All right. Do you want to do

435
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: another one to a harder one, harder than harder than that?

436
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: You want something harder than that, computational bioglogy. Yeah, I'll

437
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: let you do that one, Alan, Yeah, I already covered

438
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: These are like really easy ones. Should try. All right,

439
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: let's do it. So. Um, the universe is usually thought

440
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: to be all that there is, but there's a possibility

441
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: that what we long thought was all there is might

442
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: actually be a small part of much grander landscape of reality,

443
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: populated by other realms that would be rightly called universe

444
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 1: is of their own and the grand collection we would

445
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:08,239
Speaker 1: call the multiverse like that one, alright on, we need

446
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: a harder one, dark energy. You want to do dark energy?

447
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: Dark energy? All right? So for a long time we

448
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: thought we knew what the universe was made of, things

449
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: like particles, electrons, corks, neutrinos, you heard of these things.

450
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: So these are little tiny particles of matter that we

451
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: believe may not be made up of anything more fine.

452
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: They may be the fundamental ingredients oude of which everything

453
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 1: is made. It's little tiny things, and we thought that

454
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: that was what the universe was made of. But we've

455
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: now learned that there is this energy suffusing space, which

456
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: when you put into Einstein's we believe that there is

457
00:29:54,880 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: this substance that is everywhere in the universe, every nook

458
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: and cranny of the universe. And when this energy is

459
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: in Einstein's general theory of relativity, when this energy is

460
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: put into our equations of how gravity works, we find

461
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 1: that this energy gives rise to a repulsive version of

462
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: gravity that makes up the bulk of the universe. That's

463
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: giving rise to a negative pressure that yields a negative

464
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: gravity that pushes everything apart, making the expansion of space.

465
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: Found why Edwin hobble in making the expansion of space

466
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: speed up, driving everything in the universe apart of an

467
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: ever quickening pace. No, I can't do that. Okay, so

468
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: you started like Chinese food, you got it for a moment.

469
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: Then let me let me say that, and I think

470
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: you'll agree with this. That who haven't taught China everything

471
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: there is to know about it, we're done. We're done

472
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: for her to be able to do work in this,

473
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: to understand it at a deeper level, she would have

474
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 1: to learn the mathematics. She'd have to really work hard

475
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: at it. But you may have told her enough for

476
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: Tina to be interested to know more. And when we

477
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: make things clear to the public, that's what I hope

478
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: for first, that they want to know more. I don't

479
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: know you might have right, I mean, you know, you know,

480
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: jargon gets a very bad rap. It's vital for us

481
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: scientists to have a shorthand, and that's why we use it.

482
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: We don't do it to have funny sounding words. We

483
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: can communicate everything that we just spoke about here in

484
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: one tenth of the time with ten times the accuracy

485
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: if we make use of the actual jargon and ideas.

486
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: But of course, when you're talking to the general public

487
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: who's not going to go to graduate school, you want to,

488
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: like you say, excite them about these ideas. So hopefully

489
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: you can do it in a way that gets the

490
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: essence across. Thank you so much for helping. Thank you.

491
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: I angry. Towards the end of our conversation, Tina and

492
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: I realized we shared a trait that you might not

493
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: expect performers to have. We realized we were both shy.

494
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: I was a shy kid, but here I could on stage,

495
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: I could be in command. That makes sense. A lot

496
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: of people, a lot of people in comedy I know,

497
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: are very shy. Are you shy? Very shy? I am? Yeah,

498
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: me too. I have I have a lot of social anxiety.

499
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: Someone from the audience had a question for us, what

500
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: can you do about that? How can you turn making

501
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: a toast at a wedding, or making a presentation at work,

502
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: or any kind of public speaking into a pleasure instead

503
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: of an invitation to an anxiety attack. One aha moment

504
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: that I can think first thing I thought of as

505
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: a happened during improvisation was on stage years ago at

506
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: the Second City. I was in an improv set where

507
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: we would take suggestions from the audience and improvised for

508
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: the any minutes different things. And I was in a

509
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: scene with my friend Rachel Dress and my friends got out, said,

510
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: and it was going so badly. It was we were

511
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: just bombing so hard. And I remember looking deeply into

512
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: Rachel's eyes, and she was she would clutch me what

513
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: we called her mouse paw, her tiny little hands clutching,

514
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: and we were continuing the scene. But there was a

515
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: whole other level of communication of like, dear God, we

516
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: were bombing, and the realization for me was that my

517
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: greatest fear was being realized. We were sweating bombing. It

518
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: was going terribly and the realization was that after it

519
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: was over, we were still alive and we would live

520
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: to fight again another day. And so for me, it's

521
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: the thing of taking the my what is my greatest fear?

522
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: What what am I so nervous? Will happen that everyone

523
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: will boo or no one will paytation like that, Even

524
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: if that happens, You're fine, You will be mine. So

525
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 1: if that helps you at all, if your public speaking,

526
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: do you find that that helps you in life too? Yeah?

527
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I think one of the biggest

528
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: things you get out of improvisation work is, uh, you

529
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: abandon a fear of embarrassment. And you know, my friend

530
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: Amy Poehler talks a lot about She talks a lot

531
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 1: about UH having the courage to kind of break the

532
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: social protocol, which is something that none of us have.

533
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 1: You have to be not afraid of embarrassment to say

534
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: like nope, from breaking the social rules here and saying whatever.

535
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 1: And so I think improvisation helps you with that stuff.

536
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: I find too, it seems allied with that that you

537
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 1: get more used to the idea that something from your

538
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: unconscious is going to come up and it's going to

539
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: be okay no matter what it is, Whereas without that

540
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: freedom that you get from knowing it's going to be

541
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: okay even if it's even if it's something bad that

542
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: happens there, you say something terrible, it's going to be

543
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,399
Speaker 1: okay because in the long run, what difference doesn't matter,

544
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: You're still going to be there. You're just gonna be there. Yeah,

545
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: that seems like that's a good one to go out on.

546
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: I think we should be done right. I'm very happy

547
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: to hand on holding up the books that's now available.

548
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: Thank you. I had such a thing that was fun,

549
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: but we're not finished yet. We still wanted TEENA to

550
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: give us seven quick answers to our seven quick questions,

551
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: and she was kind enough to drop in on our studio. Tina,

552
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: thank you for coming back. Oh it's great because since

553
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: you and I talked, we came up with seven questions

554
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: that I asked everybody. Number one, what do you wish

555
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: you really understood? The first thing that came to my

556
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 1: mind was music. I wish I could read and read

557
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: music and play an instrument and sing. That's how I feel.

558
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 1: You're the first person to say that. What Now, what

559
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: do you wish people understood about you? It's a good

560
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: question because I feel like in some ways, I'm like

561
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: we've talked too much about me as a community. Yea less,

562
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: less understood less? All right, what what's the strangest question?

563
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: Anyone ever asked you? What's the strangest question or really

564
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 1: strange guy's interviewed? Let me think, I don't know. Can

565
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: I come back to that one? What's the strangest question?

566
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 1: It sounds like you're basically an easy going person. I

567
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: am really easy going. Nothing strikes you as odd? Yeah,

568
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:56,479
Speaker 1: I don't. I can't. I'm stumped on that one. Maybe

569
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: something will come to me and we'll edit it and

570
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: seem like make it seems like I knew in the moment. Okay,

571
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:08,439
Speaker 1: how do you stop a compulsive talker? Um? I asked, Well,

572
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: A kind of counterintuitive thing is to ask them questions

573
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: to try to pivot the topic right sometimes yeah, or

574
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: just you know, fake a heart attack. I find nothing works,

575
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,879
Speaker 1: especially if I'm the compulsive talker. That's that's really hard. Yeah.

576
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: My dad was a big talker, and my friend Lauren

577
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: Michaels is a pretty is a pretty big talker. Um.

578
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: And sometimes you just have to write it out. Is

579
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: there anyone for whom you just can't feel empathy? I

580
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: can almost always dig deep, and at some point in

581
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: fit you can go. You can find a little bit,

582
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 1: but sometimes it's buried under layers and layers and layers

583
00:37:55,239 --> 00:38:01,439
Speaker 1: of anger. Um. Yeah, like a couple. There's a couple

584
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 1: of famous people that I don't feel a tremendous amount

585
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: of empathy. Four, But I'd probably rather not name that.

586
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: I think I got it. How do you like to

587
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: deliver bad news in person, on the phone or by

588
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:19,240
Speaker 1: carry your pigeon? I think bad news is best delivered

589
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: in person, and that's what you like. I think that's

590
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: the right thing to do in your life. You keep

591
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: a pigeon in real life, a fleet of pigeons and

592
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: carry rats. Okay, last one, what if anything would make

593
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 1: you into friendship dishonesty. Well, I'm telling you the truth.

594
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: I really like you coming on. Thanks, thanks for having me.

595
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: Should I try to think of the answer to that? Okay,

596
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 1: what is the weirdest question? Yeah, it sounds like that

597
00:38:54,040 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: was it? What was the weirdest question? Yeah, that's trying

598
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,879
Speaker 1: to think because certainly, you know, we've all done kind

599
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 1: of press junkets and stuff. We get a lot of

600
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: strange ones. You know, if somebody asked me, I'm not

601
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: sure I could remember the weirdest one. I just this

602
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: was just sort of a silly one. But we did

603
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: a when the movie Mean Girls came out. We came

604
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,399
Speaker 1: out the same time as an Olsen Twins movie called

605
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: New York Minute, and I was at a Hollywood Foreign

606
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: Press uh thing, and they said, uh, we watched your movie,

607
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 1: and then we watched the Olsen Twin movie. And with

608
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: the Osten Twins movie, everyone was very laughing, but not

609
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: your movie. Why it's great. I think you got it.

610
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,479
Speaker 1: This has been clear and vivid, at least I hope.

611
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 1: So Tina's an inspiration for me. She's talented, creative, and

612
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 1: a really nice person in spite of the fact that

613
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 1: her Broadway show is called Mean Girls. Visit Mean Girls

614
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,280
Speaker 1: on Broadway dot com for tickets. Tina and I appeared

615
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: on stage together last year during in the World Science

616
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: Festival and our conversation some of it anyways, what you

617
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: heard in this podcast, My thanks goes out to all

618
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: the people who organized and produced that event, and I

619
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: thank them for providing us with the audio of our interview.

620
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,919
Speaker 1: The World Science Festival takes place every year in New York,

621
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: and I really advise you to check it out. It's

622
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 1: an amazing thing. Five days of fifty events that combine

623
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 1: art and science. You can find more about the World

624
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: Science Festival at World Science Festival dot org. This episode

625
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: of Clear and Vivid was produced by my friend and

626
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: longtime producer Graham shed. Graham and I have worked together

627
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: for more than twenty years, including many events associated with

628
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:47,320
Speaker 1: the World Science Festival. Our associate producer is Sarah Chase,

629
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 1: sound engineers Dan de zula, are tech guru is Alison Costan,

630
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 1: and our publicist is Sarah Hill. My special thanks to

631
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 1: John Delore, Harry Nelson, and Jared O'Connor know for their

632
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: in studio assistance. You can subscribe to this podcast for

633
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: free at Apple Podcasts. For more details about Clear and

634
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: Vivid and to sign up for my newsletter, please visit

635
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 1: Alan Alda dot com. You can also find us on

636
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: Facebook and Instagram at Clear and Vivid, and I'm on

637
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 1: Twitter at Alan Alda. Thanks for listening, Bye bye,