1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with text stuff from how 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. Hey there, everyone, and welcome to 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: tex Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland and I'm la and both 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 1: of us have a sunny disposition today because we're talking 5 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: about solar panels. Lauren is already shaking her head into 6 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: the appointment. It's a Thursday, all right. So this actually 7 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: comes to us as a suggestion from listener Kirk via Facebook, 8 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: and the request is not sure if you've covered this 9 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: particular technology yet and one of your podcasts or that 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,279 Speaker 1: and forward thinking it's an excellent show you should all 11 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: be watching that. That's that's that's a little aside from me. 12 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,639 Speaker 1: But since it just it's just getting turned on near here, 13 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: and I've heard seeing this technology has been used in 14 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: northern Europe some time, I thought it would make a 15 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: pretty cool podcast, and then sent us a link to 16 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,959 Speaker 1: an article about a solar thermal farm that's being set up. 17 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: So we thought, you know what, it's been a while 18 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: since we've done an episode about solar panels. Yeah, since 19 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: August two thousand eleven, I believe, in fact, back when 20 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: Chris Palett was on the show. Yep, So we did 21 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: an episode back then, and we thought we would update it. 22 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: So here's the update. We're going to start off with 23 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: a little bit of background on how those solar panels 24 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: actually work. Your basic solar panels tend to be made 25 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: out of silicon, and the dope silicon dopey, impure, purposefully 26 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: impure silicon. Right, that silicon is dope, you know. So 27 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 1: uh and there's another Oh, I got the hands over 28 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: the face this time, guys. Awesome, that's a that's our 29 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: pure wind. No, okay, so silicon. The reason why we're 30 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: using silicon in solar panels is that, you know, if 31 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: you remember your illustrations of atoms, they have the electron 32 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: shells on the outside of the atom, and those electron 33 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: shells can hold a certain number of electrons depending upon 34 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: what which energy shell you're talking about. Now, silicon has 35 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: some free A electrons in its outermost shell, meaning that 36 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: not every single space that can hold an electron has 37 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: an electron. And when I say space, I just mean 38 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: the number of electrons that can inhabit at outer shell. Uh. 39 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: Since they're they are free, then silicon can bond with 40 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: something else like other silicon atoms. So if you can 41 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: have it bond with lots of silicon atoms, you then 42 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: create a silicon crystal. If you then bombard this silicon 43 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: crystal that has been doped in various ways, either with 44 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: ions that have a negative charge or ions have a 45 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:37,679 Speaker 1: positive charge, you can then induce electrons to flow. Now, 46 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: in our article on how stuff Works dot Com about 47 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 1: how solar panels work, there's an helpful analogy there. Right. 48 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: It's about uh kind of talking about hills, right. It's 49 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: saying that essentially when when you create when you create 50 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: one of these cells with a with the negative side 51 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 1: and a positive side, it's going to create an electron 52 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: flow that's downhill, right, meaning that like if you were 53 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: to have a rock and you pushed it down the hill, 54 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: it would roll down the hill, but it wouldn't roll 55 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: back up the hill. There there'd be that blocking mechanism 56 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: to keep it from going up the hill. Uh. The 57 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: in the case of silicon based solar cells, the photon 58 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: is kind of that initial push that gets the rock rolling. 59 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: So if the photon is strong enough to push the 60 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: rock and get it moving, everything's cool. You're actually you're 61 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: gathering energy through solar power. So the photon hits the 62 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: silicon crystals that are doped so that you're it's not 63 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: just a pure silicon crystal all the way through. That 64 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: gives energy to allow electrons to break clear of what 65 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: is called the band gap. That allows the electrons to 66 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: break free of their bonds and flow through a pathway. 67 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: Now they want to get to the negatively charged electrons 68 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: want to get to a more positively charged environment. But 69 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: if you have a barrier there so that they can't 70 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: just crossover, they you know that you get this potential 71 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: in your g but you don't have any real energy. 72 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: But if you make a pathway from negative to positive, 73 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: then the electrons will travel that pathway to get to 74 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: that positive site because that's really really want to be. 75 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: That's that's the awesome place for them. And if you 76 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: make them do work along the way, you get a 77 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: benefit from it. So like that work might be lighting 78 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: a light bulb, or it might be opening the doors 79 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: on the enterprise. I've been reading a lot about star 80 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: Trek recently. Um anyway, the work could be whatever you 81 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: could imagine an electronic circuit, and the electrons are going 82 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: to go and do it because it means they get 83 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: to be on the positive party on the other side. 84 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: It's just like me. If you tell me there's a 85 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: positive party on the other side, I'm willing to do 86 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: a lot of work to get there. I'm not on 87 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: a lot of lists anyway. So this is the basic 88 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: premise of a solar panel. You have the photons providing 89 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: the initial energy. Now, not all photons are created equally. 90 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: We have lots of different uh frequencies of light, right, 91 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: and so some photons have a really low amount of 92 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 1: energy and are only going to be able to excite 93 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: certain types of electron. Maybe maybe they can excite an electron. 94 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: If they don't have enough energy to equal what that 95 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: band gap energy is, then they're not going to have 96 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: the push needed to get the electron to break free. 97 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: They might in fact flow right past that electron, which 98 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: will come in handy later on. Um. But but high energy, 99 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: high energy photons can either at a certain point no 100 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: matter how much energy it has, you can't. You're you're 101 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: gonna lose a little bit if if it's got more 102 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: than it needs. Right. Yeah. So for example, the the 103 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: example I used in the old podcast, if you want 104 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: to go back and listen to that, is that let's 105 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 1: say that I'm capable of lifting a hundred ten pounds. 106 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: I'm actually able to lift more than that just then, 107 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: you know, but for the purposes of this example, hundred 108 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: ten pounds of my limit. If you put a hundred 109 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: pound weight in front of me, no problem, I can 110 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: lift it up. You put to one pound weights in 111 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: front of me, I can lift one or the other, 112 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: but not both at the same time. However, you know, 113 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: you sit there and you look at that from an 114 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 1: energy perspective, I'm capable of lifting a hundred ten pounds. 115 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: I lift a hundred pound weight. That means ten pounds 116 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: of my lifting power are going to waste. I can't. 117 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: It's not being utilized. I'm not capturing it in some 118 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: useful way. And in the case of traditional photovoltaics, if 119 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 1: Jonathan were that photon and you put to fifty pound 120 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 1: weights in front of him, he wouldn't be able to 121 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: lift them both, only one. Yeah, So we have to that. 122 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: This is where we're starting to get into some of 123 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: the challenges that we face with solar power. The big 124 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: one there is efficiency. Uh, Maximizing efficiency in solar panels 125 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: is no easy task, and in fact, it's something that 126 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: we've seen. If you were to look at it from 127 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: a big picture perspective, it looks like really minor increases 128 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: over the last couple of decades. But in fact, every 129 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: tiny increase means that you get quite a bit of 130 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: return on your investment, simply because when we're talking about 131 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: solar panels, were usually talking about big arrays of solar 132 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: panels where a little improvement means a lot of output 133 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: in the in the long run, and they've been so inefficient. Uh, 134 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: you know, je early about five of the potential energy 135 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: of the sun is captured by them. In fact, according 136 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: to some sources, your typical commercial solar cell will get 137 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: you about nineteen return. So of all the potential energy 138 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: you could be gathering based upon the photons that hit 139 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: that panel is what you're actually capitalizing on. Right, the 140 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: theoretical maximum for silicon wave for cells is about fifty 141 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: percent efficiency, right, we just don't get there. In fact 142 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: that the current world world record in a lab is 143 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: only forty four point seven percent efficiency, reached just this 144 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: year by German and French researchers with a four junction 145 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: cell and more on multijunction cells later on in the podcast. 146 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: But but that's but that's an elaborator. That's a lab, 147 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: which means it's not it's not sunlight that you're doing. 148 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: You're bombarding that with specific kinds of light to check 149 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: on its on its efficiency levels when you get into 150 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: the field. Sometimes literally in the field, it's much lower 151 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: in a field, not the field. Well, you know, in 152 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: my mind, there's there's one field and everything else is 153 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: just a pathetic copy. I'm talking about a field of dreams. 154 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: What I'm not sure what I built it. They came, 155 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: that's all I'm saying. So then, uh, yeah, that so 156 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: we're talking about really low efficiencies when it comes to 157 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: how much energy is hitting it versus how much you 158 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: are actually gathering. On top of that, you have to 159 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: talk about the actual financial cost of solar cells. Right, 160 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: They're traditionally pretty expensive, and I think that you and 161 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: I both managed to compile completely different figures because there's 162 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: there's a few different ways that people talk about the 163 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: cost of solar panels. You've got the pure manufacturing before 164 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: they go into use, and then you've got the installation costs, 165 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: and then you've got maintenance costs. Yeah, there's there are 166 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: a lot of different costs associated with it. I was 167 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: going from a report that m I T created about 168 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 1: some improvements that people at m I T had made 169 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: to solar panels. And that report, they said that solar 170 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: panels cost about seventy five cents per what of energy 171 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: UH and that in order to be UH to be 172 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: competitive against fossil fuels, it needs to be closer to 173 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 1: fifty cents per what. Now, that's just one method of 174 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: figuring out the expense. And and in fact the report 175 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: did not say, like what which factors they took into account, 176 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: whether that also includes installation in there and maintenance as well, 177 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: or if that was purely from a manufacturing standpoint, The 178 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: point being that creating silicon based solar panels is not cheap. 179 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: It's getting less expensive over time. We're seeing improvements definitely. 180 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: So some numbers that I was saying, we're talking about 181 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: the pure manufacturing is of two thousand nine being over 182 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: a dollar per what um as maybe fifty cents per what. 183 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: So then you've got a and moving moving towards to 184 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: something like thirty six cents per what. Right, And we're 185 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: also going to talk about some alternatives that might get 186 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: that even lower. But we're seeing, we're seeing the cost 187 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,839 Speaker 1: of solar panels drop year over year, and that's, uh, 188 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,079 Speaker 1: that's because of a lot of different factors. One is 189 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: that the materials are getting less expensive. We're getting better 190 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: at making them. We're getting better at making them with 191 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,079 Speaker 1: cheaper materials, We're getting better at installing them. I mean, 192 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: it's become more business as usual, and so more companies 193 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: are more used to installing these for people. Therefore, you know, 194 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: we have people with expertise in the field now that 195 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: we didn't have five years ago because it was really new, 196 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: and the manufacturing processes have become uh more streamlined over time. 197 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: It's just kind of the same with what we saw 198 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: with the computer industry and microprocessors. Initially. When you when 199 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: a new microprocessor hits the market, it tends to be 200 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: really expensive. And part of that is because the manufacturing 201 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: cost to create something brand new that has a brand 202 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: new architecture, it's using super sophisticated electronics that you know, 203 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: to pay off for that, you have to have a 204 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: pretty high price on your product. But as you get 205 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: more money, you can invest more in the manufacturing process 206 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,839 Speaker 1: make things more streamlined, you increase efficiency on the back end. 207 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: That means that you have lower costs. So then you 208 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: can actually lower the cost of the final product. Same 209 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: thing we're seeing in the solar panel industry. Yeah, and 210 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: I did want to put in that those numbers. If 211 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: if you have yourself installed any kind of solar panels, 212 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: you are saying a dollar per what I wish, um. 213 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: And that's because for private use, installation costs will cost 214 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: anywhere from like three to six bucks these days. And 215 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: per what per what? Right? And and that's um, that's 216 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: a huge improvement over the eight to ten that it 217 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 1: was a few years back. But in fact, I remember 218 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: seeing one report and it was based out of the UK, 219 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: which is already kind of interesting because the UK is 220 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: not necessarily the ideal spot to have solar panels. They 221 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: don't have as much it's a little bit cloudier general, 222 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: they can get a lot a lot of cloud cover, 223 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: just that's the climate in that region of the world. 224 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: But the report found that after about seven years of 225 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: use the a seven years, you would essentially be offsetting 226 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: that cost of installation. After the seven years, you would 227 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: essentially have recaptured those costs, and apart from maintenance fees 228 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: for whatever purposes you would need, your energy production at 229 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: that point forward would be free, so you would then 230 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: you know, be be at a surplus, which is fantastic 231 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: and the same thing is generally true throughout the world. 232 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: Um And as we see these costs go down, both 233 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: installation manufacturing, both all of the costs installation manufacturing and 234 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: maintenance going down, then that will mean you don't have 235 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: to wait as long for this investment to pay off. 236 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: Part of this is depending on the market. Currently there 237 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: is more supply than there is demand for photovote takes 238 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: and that's only because it has been so expensive. And 239 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: so I think that as this price comes down, it's 240 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 1: going to be interesting to see how the market adjusts 241 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: and whether we're going to see a flattening, a plateau 242 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: prices or or what's going to go on. And also, 243 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: I mean this also has to do with rare and 244 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: toxic materials, which you know, rare earth metals are a 245 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,559 Speaker 1: big component and component and China is the chief producer 246 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,439 Speaker 1: of rare earth metals. We've talked about that in a 247 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: previous episode of tech Stuff as well about you waste right, yeah, 248 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: well e waste yes, that was one of the yeah 249 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: in particular was the waste but rare earth metals and 250 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: I think We have a specific episode just about rare 251 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: earth metals because we we wanted to explain what what 252 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: they were, why they're important, and why is it that 253 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: China is the main producer. And the main reason that 254 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: China is the main producer is because it's super cheap 255 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: to get it from China, because China does not I'm sure, 256 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure they have fewer. The problem with bare earth 257 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: metals is that they all contain certain radioactive elements, and 258 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: also getting them out can um can release a lot 259 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: of toxic stuff and there, and in general, if you're 260 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: doing that, you tend to incur lots of expenses, except 261 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: in China where they don't care as much. Yeah, if 262 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: you have fewer regulations, the it's a lot cheaper, but 263 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: a lot more dangerous for the people who are doing 264 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: it and for the environment, because, as it turns out, 265 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,839 Speaker 1: there are other places on Earth that are rich relatively 266 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: speaking in rare earth metals. But it's the term rare 267 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: earth metals doesn't mean that there are very few of 268 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: them in the earth. That generally means that there are 269 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: very few of them concentrated in a single area, right, Yeah, 270 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: So the mining process is very different than you know, 271 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: striking a vein of say iron and being able to 272 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: mind it. So and of course that's going to play 273 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: into the other podcasts that we're going to record next 274 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: but has already published, I believe. So if you've listened 275 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: to our Minecraft episode, just know that we haven't recorded 276 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: it yet. You yeah, you're you've actually traveled. I don't 277 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: even know where you are now anyway. So we've got efficiency, 278 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: we've got cost, we have the fact that there's these 279 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: rare materials toxicity those that's another challenge. Uh And another 280 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: one is just the and we talked about this briefly 281 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: with the UK. It's just the how how practical is it? 282 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: Is it practical depending upon where you are in the world, 283 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: because if you are someplace that does not get a 284 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: lot of sun exposure, then you're not going to reap 285 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: the benefits of solar power. However, if you live pretty 286 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: near to say, the Majabi Desert, you're in a decently 287 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: good spot right exactly. And you know, I've that we 288 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: live in Atlanta, and I've seen homes in Atlanta that 289 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: have solar panels. In fact, there's some that are very 290 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: close to where I live that have solar panels installed. Uh, 291 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: and it's something that I've thought about too, But it's 292 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: another one of those things where I would really need 293 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: to have a kind of study done about how much 294 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: sun does my home really get? Would I would I 295 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: be doing? Would I be getting a good return on 296 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: my investment, Meaning that if it's going to be one 297 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: of those things where I'm only barely offsetting my energy costs, 298 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: I might be doing more harm than good by adding 299 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: solar panels, especially when you figure in maintenance fees and 300 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff in the in the process. So, uh, 301 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: you know your mileage will vary depending upon how much 302 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: sun you get. So those are the basic challenges. Now 303 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: what's great is about solar panels is that we see 304 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: lots of different companies and engineer and scientists looking to 305 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: address these challenges in different ways. So people are coming 306 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: at this problem from all different directions, not just from 307 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: solar panels, but from huge collections of solar panels. Yeah, 308 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: that's speaking of the Majave Desert. Actually, there is a 309 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: large solar thermal farm being built in California right near 310 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: the Nevada border called ivan Pa. I didn't look up 311 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: the pronunciation. We're going to go with that. Um. But 312 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: so it's like ivan ho. Yes, Um, it's on some 313 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: four thousand acres, which is about sixteen square kilometers, which 314 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: is something like six square miles for anyone else who 315 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: doesn't know what on earth an acre is and what's hecktears. No, 316 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. Um. And so solar thermal farms, as 317 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: opposed to classic solar farms, which are just large collections 318 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: of these photopol take plates, use mirrors a k. A 319 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: heliostats if you want to use the technical science term 320 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: for it, um to concentrate sunlight into a tower, which 321 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: then boils water to create steam to turn a turbine 322 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 1: to create power or not create power, I'm sorry, generate energy. Yeah. 323 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: And this, this particular Ivan Pope is using some one 324 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 1: D seventy thousand mirrors in fact, to concentrate the sunlight 325 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 1: onto three large like fo a k at seven towers. 326 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: And yeah, it's it's pretty impressive. They it's set to 327 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: turn on this year. They first tower just went through 328 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: a power power cycle test and they green lit it. 329 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: They said good to go. So that's exciting. As at September, 330 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: we are recording this. On October something something there you 331 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 1: go dates numbers only because it was right there on 332 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 1: my screen. I guess it's online too. That's great. Um, 333 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 1: But yeah, but coal ocation this is this is an 334 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: idea that we see in lots of different power strategies, 335 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: where almost in almost everything we talk about when it 336 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: comes to power. In fact, I'll go so far as 337 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: to say, in every form of power we're talking about, 338 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: heat is one of those factors that if you can 339 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,880 Speaker 1: harness the heat as well as whatever it is you're 340 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: doing to generate the power in the first place, then 341 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 1: you can end up generating more power that way than 342 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: you would if you just let that heat dissipate into 343 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: the atmosphere. Sure, and these these thermal farms are a 344 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 1: little bit a little bit tricky in that you have 345 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: to have a really good location for them. I mean, 346 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: it's there aren't that many sixteen square kilometer areas just 347 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: kind of hanging out where people are willing to let 348 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: you completely disrupt an ecosystem in order to put down 349 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of mirrors and a whole bunch of 350 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 1: really hot water towers, um, in order to generate energy. 351 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 1: Deserts are pretty good candidates, although part of the two 352 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: point two billion dollar cost of building this thing out 353 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: was a very expensive move of a threatened species of 354 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: desert tortoise from this area to to a safe place 355 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:10,719 Speaker 1: where they wouldn't be boiled. Um. Yeah, yeah, I can 356 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 1: see where that would be a concern. I mean, you know, 357 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: it's we often will think about things like desert environments 358 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: as being practically like but now it's not like. It's 359 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: not like tattooing or Mars or Mars. Yeah, now, solar 360 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 1: solar farms on Mars, solar Mars will not be hurting 361 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 1: for that although they don't know you don't know about 362 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: the Martians. Well, also I don't know about the storms. 363 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: So the storms could also really block a lot of 364 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: the soul. Now that I think about it, you know, 365 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: maybe I shouldn't make such sweeping statements. But you know, 366 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: there are of course, they're already solar panels on Mars. Yes, 367 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 1: that's thanks thanks to a couple of rovers out there. Um. 368 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: But yeah, this, this particular one is is set to 369 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: deliver some three and seventy seven net mega watts of 370 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: power in uh as opposed to the three two it's 371 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: capable of total You're you're always going to lose some 372 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 1: in a system like this, and which is about the 373 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: same as a medium sized fossil fuel plant, it's kind 374 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: of sort of and yeah, the two of the towers 375 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: are going to be selling to p G and E 376 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: and the third is going to be selling to southern 377 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: California Edison And supposedly the whole system is going to 378 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: power some hundred forty homes. Right. So here we're looking 379 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,679 Speaker 1: at a system that, while it does have a huge 380 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 1: initial cost, Uh, they are going to be able to 381 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: start selling to customers. I don't know how long it 382 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: will take them to recapture the costs of building that place. 383 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: I mean that's gonna take a while. You're two point 384 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,120 Speaker 1: two billion dollars. It's no chump change, right. Yeah, they 385 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 1: had the investments from people like Google, and they were 386 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: working partially on a federal government loan. So some of 387 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: that some of that is offset. Some of the offset sure, 388 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: and then uh, but on top of that, you're looking 389 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: at a much lower environmental impact in the long run 390 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 1: compared to the carbon dioxide emissions you would get from 391 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: from a fossil fuel plant. Right. And there has been 392 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 1: some research on the brook Haven National Laboratory released to 393 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 1: study saying that UM, regardless of the technolog of the 394 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: specific technology being used in photovoltaics, they generate fewer harmful 395 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 1: gas emissions, like some fewer UM than anything fossil fuel related. 396 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: So well, and related to this is the concept of 397 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: solar trackers. This is something else that you can find 398 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: at solar farms where uh, in this case, I'm talking 399 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: about your more traditional solar panels that are using photons 400 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 1: to convert it to electricity as opposed to this approach 401 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: where you're using the solar the solar energy to heat water. 402 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: But solar trackers are kind of what they sound like. 403 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: These are devices that can track the movement of the Sun. 404 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: Although of course we know the Sun's movement is relative 405 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: to the Earth and there's spin and all that stuff. 406 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: At any rate, we're just gonna go with the movement 407 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: of the sun across the horizon, across the sky, the 408 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 1: pathway across the sky. So you've got these solar panels. 409 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: Not all the solar panel panels are going to be 410 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: angled at a way where they're going to capture as 411 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: much sunlight as possible throughout any particular part of the day. 412 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,199 Speaker 1: So what do you do well, you could mount the 413 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: solar panels on some sort of pivoting system that would 414 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: change throughout the day, or you create solar trackers that 415 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: are enormous mirrors mounted on some form of of Essentially 416 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 1: you're looking at something that can that can tilt so 417 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,439 Speaker 1: that it will direct sunlight back down to the panels. Right, 418 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: So the panels are stationary, they don't move throughout the day, 419 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: but the trackers, these enormous mirrors that can move in 420 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: relation to the way the sun's path takes it across 421 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 1: the sky, can continuously adjust so that the sunlight is 422 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 1: directed back to the solar panels, thus maximizing the number 423 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: of hours when you can collect sunlight. Because that's another 424 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 1: one of those challenges that we didn't really mention. Sometimes 425 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: the sun's not out, it might be you know, night, 426 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: or sometimes it's in a different place. You know, if 427 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: you if you cover say the west wall of your 428 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: house with solar panels, which is a terrible plan overall, 429 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: don't do that. But um, that's the least efficient way 430 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: of going about anything. Yeah, you're you're only going to 431 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: get the western facing sun. Yeah, and even then, like 432 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: at different times of the year, you're not going to 433 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,719 Speaker 1: get as coverage exactly. Yeah, the the there will be 434 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 1: sometimes the year where you will get more uh or 435 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: you'll get longer hours, not longer hours, but longer time 436 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: periods where the hours will stay the same, but you'll 437 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 1: get longer periods. Yeah. Well, you know, back in my day, 438 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: hours used to be sixty three minutes long. But you 439 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,879 Speaker 1: know the kids, Uh no, you get you'll have longer 440 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: times when you'll be able to collect sunlight. So these 441 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,719 Speaker 1: are just little strategies to try and maximize that as 442 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: much as possible, so that even if the solar panel 443 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,479 Speaker 1: efficiency is low, if you can maximize the amount of 444 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: time that they receive sunlight, you still generate more power. Now, 445 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,959 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk a little bit about improving the solar 446 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: panels themselves and some of the crazy technologies and easy 447 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: inspirations people have drawn from in order to make this possible. 448 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: But before we do that, let's take a quick break 449 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 1: to thank our sponsor. Alright, so let's talk a little 450 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: bit about improving solar panels. Um, not just making solar 451 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,239 Speaker 1: farms more efficient, but the actual panels themselves. Now, right, 452 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: because there's a lot of interesting materials, science and even 453 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 1: quantum science that's going on in this. Yeah, you know, 454 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: we can we can always confuse refuse things by adding 455 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: the word quantum in there. So, uh. One of them 456 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: is one of the things we can do is look 457 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 1: at introducing some sort of film to put upon solar 458 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: panels so that it reflects less light. That's one of 459 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: the problems with solar panels is that some some photons 460 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: when they hit the panel, we'll just bounce right off again. 461 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: Filicon specifically, it is very shiny, and so so you're 462 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: going to lose more photons than you really want to 463 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 1: in this process of reflection. Right, So one way to 464 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 1: increase efficiency is to make sure those photons don't get away. 465 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 1: And there are different ways of doing this, and one 466 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: of them is to copy a certain insect, the moth, 467 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: the moth. Right, I had heard about this, Yeah, so 468 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: moth eyes. Now, let's talk a little bit about moth eyes. 469 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 1: If you were to get a microscope and look at 470 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 1: a moth's eye, you know, you borrowed it from the moth. 471 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: Maybe the moth has flown off a little eye patch 472 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: and hook and it's gone to be a piratical moth. Meanwhile, 473 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: you're looking at the moth's eye, you're gonna see there 474 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 1: are these little micro structures, and those micro structures in 475 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: the eye are they have a specific purpose. They reflect 476 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 1: light back to the back of the moth's eye so 477 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: that the moth can perceive more light. And a lot 478 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: of animals have this, but moth eyes in particular are 479 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 1: extremely efficient at doing so. Yeah. And if you've ever 480 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 1: seen like like a photograph of a cat and the 481 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: eyes are glowing at you, that's because of a reflective 482 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: layer at the back of the eye, which is which 483 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: is reflecting light back into the right now. Yeah, Now, 484 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 1: in this case, we can really say that there are 485 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: probably two big reasons for moths to have this particular 486 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: micro structure in their eyes. One is so that they 487 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 1: see more light. They can perceive more light because they're 488 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 1: flying around often at night. And the other is that 489 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 1: they reflect less light so that potential predators can't see 490 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,679 Speaker 1: them and gobble them up. So it's a survival mechanism 491 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: on two fronts. How we can take advantage of it 492 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: is by making uh kind of a model of those 493 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: same micro structures designs in such a way so that 494 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: when light hits it, more of the light gets reflected 495 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: down to the surface of the solar panel, the the 496 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 1: actual collection surface, and fewer photons bounce off and we 497 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: thus increase efficiency. Now there's a fellow named Noboru Yamada 498 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: who came up with this idea along with a team 499 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: of scientists. Uh he is a scientist at Nagoaco University 500 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,959 Speaker 1: of Technology in Japan. And I'm sure I butchered all 501 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: of that. But but other than that, yes, yes, well, okay, 502 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: fair enough. Uh So he what he did was he 503 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 1: took some molds made out of a note porous alumina 504 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: to create the micro structures that were similar to those 505 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: of you would find in the moth's eyes, and uh 506 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: put that into acrylic resin. So, if you're wondering what 507 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,160 Speaker 1: that actually means, a notic is another, you know, anode. 508 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: We're talking about the positively charged electrode in a in 509 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: a system. Porous, of course, just means it's got little 510 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: bity holes and holes or spaces within it. And alumina 511 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 1: is actually a type of aluminum oxide, which is an 512 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: electrical insulator but also has a high thermal conductivity, so 513 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: it conducts heat really well, but it insulates electricity. Um 514 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: they found that this film could boost the efficiency of 515 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 1: solar panels by around five percent, so, which again sounds 516 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: really small until you consider that that a five pcent 517 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: efficiency rate is the that's the average. So let's say 518 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: let's say that we have it on close to the 519 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: high end, so somewhere around which is pretty high. I mean, 520 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: especially if you're talking about commercial solar panels, that's really high. 521 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 1: And then if you were to apply this film and 522 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: get that five percent increase, knowing that it's up to 523 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: five percent, you're not always going to get a five 524 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 1: percent improvement either. But that's a twenty efficiency at that point. 525 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 1: And when you multiply that across an entire array of 526 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: solar panels, like I said, that equals a lot more electricity. 527 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: So while it might be tiny in comparison to one 528 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: solar cell, when you're talking about an array of solar panels, 529 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: it makes a huge difference. So, uh, that's one way 530 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,399 Speaker 1: that we've seen solar panels get some improvements. Now, this 531 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: is just a film you would put over a solar panel. 532 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 1: It doesn't replace the panel itself. We have some other 533 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: technologies that would actually either improve solar panel silicon or 534 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: replace it. So, for example, University of New South Wales. 535 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: So New South Wales, it's in Australia. Uh and uh 536 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: the what now? She's shaking her head and you ver 537 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: saying Australia. That was a that was a terrible accent. 538 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: My Australian accent is amazing. It's almost as good as 539 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: my news Eland accent, which is the same accent. I 540 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: can't wait for all of our friends down under to 541 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: yell at me, but I won't understand them, so it's okay. 542 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: So the University of New South Wales, some engineers, some 543 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: scientists decided to take a look at using hydrogen atoms 544 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: to try and correct deficiencies in silicon crystals. Now, the 545 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: deficiencies in silicon would mean that normally it would decrease 546 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: the efficiency of a solar panel. So not you know, 547 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: when you're doping silicon, you want it in a very 548 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: specific way so that you can maximize its efficiency. But occasionally, 549 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: through manufacturing processes or whatever mistakes happen, you'll get a 550 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: deficiency and it will decrease that of the efficiency of 551 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: that particular solar panel, and as a result, you'll get 552 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: less energy out of it than you had anticipated. They 553 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: found that by using hydrogen atoms and inserting them into 554 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: silicon crystals. The hydrogen atoms would bond with the deficiencies 555 00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: inside the silicon and negate them and essentially help move 556 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: of the photons toward the silk the silicon. That would 557 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: actually help transfer that into electric electric energy so or 558 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: electricity as we sometimes call it. So it was it 559 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: was one of those improvements that doesn't necessarily mean we're 560 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: going to have mega, super powerful new silicon based solar 561 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: panel again, It's going to be a small improvement, right. Instead, 562 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: what it means is that we could actually use cheaper silicon. 563 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: So by using cheaper silicon, we bring down the price 564 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: of the solar panels in general. So yeah, you can 565 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: the problem with using cheaper silicon normally is that you 566 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 1: get more defects and less efficiency. But if you have 567 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: the hydrogen to correct those defects, then you can ignore 568 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: that effectively and it would be cheaper than using the 569 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: higher quality silicon exactly, So lower prices that means higher 570 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: adoption rates and uh better used for solar power all around. 571 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: Some researchers have also been using layering of different materials 572 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: with different band gaps. That this is that multi junction 573 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 1: solar cell thing that I was talking about earlier to 574 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: improve the efficiency of solar cells overall. And the way 575 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: that these work is the top layers will absorb high 576 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: energy photons and let low energy photons slip through to 577 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: be absorbed by lower layers, which interesting and so originally 578 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: this came out of like NASA and Space Tech, but 579 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: it's pretty promising. Simulations is achieved fifty one eight percent 580 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: efficiency that would be incredible, which even in a laboratory 581 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: is amazing. So the interesting thing here is that, and 582 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: we talked about this in our older podcast about how 583 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: if you go with the the lower energy band gaps, 584 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: you can cast that net. But the problem with going 585 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: with low energy band gaps is that you get a 586 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: very low voltage out of it. So the work you 587 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: can do with the electricity you generate is not necessarily 588 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 1: better than what you would if you were just going 589 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 1: for high energy. But by doing this multi tier approach, 590 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: you can capture all of it, which is a great idea, 591 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: or or a lot more of a lot more of 592 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: it in the simulation, but still right, they're they're working 593 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: on matching current among the different sub cells, because if 594 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: one sub cell is is lacking, then it's going to 595 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: throw off the entire device within this multijunction cell. So 596 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 1: it's kind of one of those weakest link type Yeah. Yeah, 597 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: so so people are people are working on it. Um. 598 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: The other thing that I'm really excited about is completely 599 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: out there. This is quantum photovoltaics, also called quantum dots 600 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: our cells quantum dots. This takes me back, yeah, yeah, 601 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: and so this is this is using matrix of finally 602 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: tuned nanocrystals instead of the typical silicon crystals that you're 603 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: that you're used to. And what's cool about these nano 604 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 1: crystals is that they can be tuned to specific segments 605 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: of the light spectrum um of of of these band 606 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: gaps that we've been talking about, so that cells can 607 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: capture more of the available light based on how different 608 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: bits of it are tuned. And the really exciting part 609 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 1: of this is that photons can hypothetically excited as many 610 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: as seven electrons per per photon photon. So so yeah, 611 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: that's that's where you're getting that crazy boost in efficiency 612 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: right right in Researchers at the University of Buffalo found 613 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: that they could reach a efficiency and also because you've 614 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: got fun quantum physics, mucking up this business um, that's 615 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: how I call it. Yeah. Recently, an international team discovered 616 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: that that these quantum dots can self assemble into nano 617 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:44,239 Speaker 1: wires that will more efficiently carry that current into their 618 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: into their own pathways. Like like Jonathan was talking about 619 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: earlier with when you create a pathway, you're allowing the 620 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: electron flow to happen, right, right, Because if you didn't 621 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: have that barrier there to block the flow, then the 622 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: electrons would just flow automatically from the more negative side 623 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: towards the more positive side. You have to create a barrier, 624 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: and then you have to create a path and and 625 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: all of this takes work on your part, but hypothetically, 626 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: this quantum stuff can can do it for you. Yeah, 627 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: that's that's pretty cool. I've got one other alternative to 628 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,839 Speaker 1: silicon based panels, and it may end up not being 629 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: an alternative but rather an augmentation. But that's for parov skites. 630 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 1: I have no idea if that's the right way to 631 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 1: say it, but this is a material that apparently the 632 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 1: Earth is just lousy with parov skites. This is incredibly plentiful, 633 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: incredibly cheap material that may in fact be a valid 634 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,279 Speaker 1: alternative to silicon. You might have heard about this talked about. 635 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 1: I believe these are also called thin film cells, correct, yes, yea, 636 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: So this is a it's a material that's very good 637 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: at absorbing light, and it's a semiconductor like silicon. It 638 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,399 Speaker 1: could transport electric charge when a photon hits it, just 639 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 1: like silicon um and unlike silicon, which those panels can 640 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: be as thin as a on a hundred and eighty 641 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:06,280 Speaker 1: micrometers thick. Hundred micrometer is one millionth of a meter um. 642 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 1: That sounds pretty thin, but a but one made of 643 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,919 Speaker 1: this other material can be less than one micrometer thick, 644 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: so the manufacturing process could be much simpler. It ends 645 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 1: up being you need less of this material than you 646 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 1: would of silicon material. Stuff is already cheaper. The sheets 647 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,359 Speaker 1: that you wind up with are more applicable to two 648 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: different objects. They can be thin and bendy and and right, 649 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: which means that you're not stuck with that one form 650 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,839 Speaker 1: factor that you would be with a a solar panel, 651 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: where you have a more rigid, thicker material, uh, which 652 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: you depending upon what you're trying to coat, could be 653 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: a big deal. It's sort of this pigmented stuff, and uh, it's, 654 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: like I said, very cheap and could eventually lead to 655 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: solar panels that cost ten to twenty cents per what. 656 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: And I remember we're talking now around between fifty cents 657 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 1: and a dollar per what, depending upon how you define it. 658 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: So this would be significantly less expensive and in fact 659 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 1: more than comparable to fossil fuels on a per what basis. 660 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: Knowing that this is not really apples to apples, so 661 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 1: but anyway, Uh, they right now are only an efficiency 662 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 1: of around fifteen Uh. Scientists think that they might be 663 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,320 Speaker 1: able to get get it to about twenty or twenty 664 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: five percent efficiency, so much lower than some of these 665 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: other ones we're talking about. But if the cost is 666 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: much lower, then it may make sense. If it's cheaper 667 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 1: to to churn these out than silicon ones, even if 668 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: the silicon ones are better, it may make more financial 669 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 1: sense to go with this material it's cheaper in the 670 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,759 Speaker 1: long run. Kind of kind of idea. Now, right now, 671 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: there's an effort to commercialize the product through a company 672 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,359 Speaker 1: called Oxford Photovoltaics, which is so far raised more than 673 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 1: four million dollars in capital. And uh, there's also a 674 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: chance because we're still seeing silicon based solar panels, we're 675 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: seeing those prices go down over time. There is a 676 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 1: chance that this won't make a big impact, simply because 677 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,399 Speaker 1: if silicon ends up being as cheap or only a 678 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: little more expensive than this alternative solar panel, people are 679 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: going to say, well, why would I sacrifice performance for 680 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,720 Speaker 1: just a tiny savings. Plus, you're talking about not just people, 681 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,439 Speaker 1: but entire companies that would have to create their own 682 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: manufacturing processes to build these these panels. It would require 683 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: a big change in infrastructure, and it may not be 684 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: worth that investment to change the infrastructure, although for certain purposes. Again, 685 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: when you're talking about the rigidity of the final product, 686 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:45,399 Speaker 1: you might wind up, yeah, finding finding benefit and using 687 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: something that's a little bit less. Some Yeah, if you 688 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: have around building, for example, and you want to have 689 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 1: part of that building like a column where there's not 690 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,800 Speaker 1: any windows facing out to be a solar gathering column, uh, 691 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: and you don't want to place a million tiny panels 692 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: on it, right, this might be a way of doing that. 693 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: It's also been discussed as a way to augment silicon 694 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 1: based solar panels, where you would use the pigment to 695 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: help reduce the reflectivity of the panels, just like we 696 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,839 Speaker 1: were talking about with the moth eyes. It would mean 697 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 1: that more photons would be reflected down into the solar 698 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,719 Speaker 1: panel as opposed to bouncing off and going Willy Nelly 699 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: to not do anyone any good, those lazy bums. So 700 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: those are those are some other alternatives. Do you have 701 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:30,399 Speaker 1: any others you want to talk about? Before we talk 702 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 1: about some of the crazy fun stuff. That's all I've got. 703 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 1: But before we do that, let's take a quick break 704 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: to thank our sponsor. You've probably tried Hulu dot com. Now. 705 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 1: With Hulu Plus, you can watch your favorite shows anytime, anywhere. 706 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,400 Speaker 1: Hulu Plus lets you watch thousands of hit TV shows 707 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 1: in the selection of acclaimed movies on your television or 708 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 1: on the go with your smartphone or tablet, and it 709 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 1: all streams an HD for the best viewing experience. With 710 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 1: Hulu Plus, you can watch your favorite current TV shows 711 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: like Community, South Park, and Parks and Recreation. You can 712 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,799 Speaker 1: also check out exclusive content, including Hulu originals like The 713 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,359 Speaker 1: Awesome starring s N. L. Seth Myers and moon Boys 714 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 1: starring christ Odald from Bride'smates. Hulu Plus also offers a 715 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,279 Speaker 1: great selection of acclaimed films for only seven dollars and 716 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: nine cents a month. You can stream as many TV 717 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,759 Speaker 1: shows and movies as you want wherever you want. Right now, 718 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 1: you can try whu Plus free for two weeks when 719 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: you go to Hulu plus dot com Forward slash Tech. 720 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: That's a special offer for our listeners. Make sure you 721 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,360 Speaker 1: use Hulu Plus dot com Forward slash Tech so you 722 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 1: get the extended free trial and they know we sent you. 723 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: Go to Hulu Plus dot com Forward slash Tech now 724 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 1: and there are a ton of shows on there that 725 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,840 Speaker 1: are some of my favorites. Uh, the I T crowd 726 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: is way up there, so you'll hear lots of I 727 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 1: T Crowd references in our episodes if you listen hard enough. 728 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: But in order to get the references, you need to 729 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,480 Speaker 1: watch the show first, so go check it out. All right, 730 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,800 Speaker 1: this isn't that crazy fun. But I did run across 731 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: an article about how solar panels are coming to Ikea 732 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 1: if you're in the UK. That that was where I 733 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 1: got the UK information right that Lauren just shook her 734 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,080 Speaker 1: fist for those who were those who were curious, those 735 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,800 Speaker 1: who are listening in on say the radio. I shook 736 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: my fist in the other solar panel episode and I 737 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: announced it too, because so there's some things that just 738 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:22,719 Speaker 1: carry over. It doesn't matter who be. So Ikea is 739 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: looking at carrying solar panels too. For customers to purchase 740 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:31,760 Speaker 1: solar solar panel kits. Flat pack Ikea style solar panel 741 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: can go in you buy a flat pack of ike 742 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 1: I'm sure they'll have some sort of Swedish name that 743 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 1: will be hilarious and um, you'll you know, in the 744 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: UK you can purchase these and then go and have 745 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:50,399 Speaker 1: them installed at your home. Uh. It sounds like if 746 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: it's a successful program that it will roll out to 747 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 1: other parts of the world, the United States included, and 748 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,839 Speaker 1: it's you know, they're no stranger to solar power. In fact, 749 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,720 Speaker 1: they use solar panels and several of their locations forty 750 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,799 Speaker 1: of their US locations have solar panels to provide energy. Yeah, 751 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,839 Speaker 1: they essentially are powering their their buildings with solar energy 752 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,279 Speaker 1: as much as they possibly can. So uh, you know, 753 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,759 Speaker 1: now they're looking at instead of just using it on 754 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 1: a corporate level, to actually offer it as a product. 755 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 1: So it'll be interesting to see if this ends up 756 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 1: being successful because then we'll see it rolled out to 757 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: other whether whether it's really is you know, in grand 758 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,239 Speaker 1: Ikea style, cheaper and easier to install. Yeah, because you 759 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: can as a customer right now. I mean, if if 760 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 1: you're a consumer, you can go out and buy solar 761 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: panels and have them installed in your home. There are 762 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,719 Speaker 1: hardware stores like Lows that that sell solar panels. It's 763 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,359 Speaker 1: not like i Kea is the first business to come 764 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 1: out and say we're finally making solar panels available to customers, 765 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 1: but it's probably the first place that you can get 766 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 1: Swedish meatballs and also solar panels. Yeah, at least from 767 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 1: a reliable source. There is a guy outside of my 768 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 1: local Lows who sells what he call switch meatballs, but 769 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 1: I just don't trust them. Uh So that was one 770 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:05,680 Speaker 1: of the wacky things I want to talk about. But 771 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:10,240 Speaker 1: the other one is my favorite, which is the robo raven. Yes, 772 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:14,880 Speaker 1: so a pair of University of Maryland professors sk Gupta 773 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,760 Speaker 1: and Hugh Bruck came up with along with their students, 774 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,719 Speaker 1: the robo raven, which is a robotic bird. It's a 775 00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,960 Speaker 1: little robot that can fly, and flying takes up a 776 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,720 Speaker 1: lot of energy. It takes up a lot of energy 777 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:28,280 Speaker 1: for birds, and it takes up a lot of energy 778 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,239 Speaker 1: for robots, as it turns out, And so they were 779 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:35,120 Speaker 1: trying to think of ways to extend a robot's flying 780 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,880 Speaker 1: life so that it would be useful. Otherwise, you know, 781 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,839 Speaker 1: your typical robotic flying device is going to have a 782 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,839 Speaker 1: fairly small range and half batteries are going to run 783 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,200 Speaker 1: down fuel source of money. So yeah, it's it's roaming 784 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,480 Speaker 1: range is going to be about half of what you 785 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,800 Speaker 1: would want just based on the battery life alone, because 786 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 1: if you have it go all the way out to 787 00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:58,600 Speaker 1: its battery life, then you have to go to retrieve it. 788 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 1: You wanted to be able to come back, right, So 789 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 1: they were thinking, well, how could we build something that 790 00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,720 Speaker 1: could recharge its batteries while it's out in the field 791 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:11,399 Speaker 1: sometimes literally and uh and then make its way back home. 792 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 1: And so they decided to use a special material where 793 00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,800 Speaker 1: they were essentially weaving in solar panels along the wings 794 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,960 Speaker 1: of this robo ravens. So the idea is that this 795 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:26,399 Speaker 1: little uh, this little device, this can the micro air 796 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,800 Speaker 1: vehicle can fly out, it would land when its power 797 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 1: would get low, and it would recharge its battery and 798 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,800 Speaker 1: now they point out that the solar panels are nowhere 799 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:40,600 Speaker 1: near efficient enough to power the bird's flight flight. Yeah, 800 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,719 Speaker 1: it would have to land and recharge batteries and then 801 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,960 Speaker 1: fly because I think it would generate something like gather 802 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:52,000 Speaker 1: like three points six watts and it needs thirty wats 803 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,920 Speaker 1: to fly, and like it's just it cannot you know, 804 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:56,520 Speaker 1: it would just it would just crash if you were 805 00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:01,920 Speaker 1: to try and fly it beyond its battery life. So thought, yes, now, 806 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,000 Speaker 1: the robo raven that plays into the podcast, we did 807 00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,000 Speaker 1: not that long ago about drones, uh, in this case, 808 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,120 Speaker 1: the robo ravens just it's a robotic bird. It's not 809 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,880 Speaker 1: designed to be anything specific apart from a robotic bird. 810 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,359 Speaker 1: But you could easily see this kind of technology being 811 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:21,080 Speaker 1: used in things like environmental uh monitors, you know, looking 812 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:25,640 Speaker 1: for things like changes in climate, changes in environment, exploration 813 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,480 Speaker 1: of areas that might be difficult to get to on 814 00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:33,640 Speaker 1: foot or otherwise, or you know, surveillance. You know, there's 815 00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,279 Speaker 1: that fun version to whether birds are spying on you 816 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,600 Speaker 1: and the robots. I don't want that. I don't want 817 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,120 Speaker 1: bird shaped robots spying on me. I want that even 818 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,399 Speaker 1: less than I want other robots spying on me. In fact, 819 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,640 Speaker 1: I'm not sure why I have this strong emotion, but 820 00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:48,759 Speaker 1: that sounds like i've I mean, I don't know, maybe 821 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,320 Speaker 1: it's watched too much Alfred Hitchcock or something. I recommend 822 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,040 Speaker 1: you don't turn around then, I'm just your back is 823 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 1: to the window. Yeah, we have an exciting new window 824 00:44:56,000 --> 00:45:00,080 Speaker 1: in the podcast, Yes, which I can look out of 825 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,080 Speaker 1: and Lauren cannot because of the way we sit. I 826 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,520 Speaker 1: I refuse to have my back to the window, all right. 827 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,680 Speaker 1: So anyway, that's that's kind of our our update on 828 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,840 Speaker 1: solar panel technology. You know, it's going to constantly be 829 00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,120 Speaker 1: this quest to eke out as much efficiency as possible 830 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,600 Speaker 1: to make solar panels a true competitor when it comes 831 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,120 Speaker 1: to generate electricity. Uh. And you also have to offset 832 00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:26,360 Speaker 1: the downsides to solar panels. So, for example, if you 833 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:28,279 Speaker 1: were to try and go off the grid and just 834 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:30,839 Speaker 1: use solar panels for your home, you would also need 835 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,120 Speaker 1: some sort of energy storage device for those times when 836 00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,240 Speaker 1: the sun is not out and you would be able 837 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,600 Speaker 1: to tap into that, so batteries essentially as what I'm 838 00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,280 Speaker 1: talking about, so you could have your own on site 839 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,239 Speaker 1: generator that runs on something else, but you're talking about 840 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:46,200 Speaker 1: some other fuel. Maybe pair it with a with a 841 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,880 Speaker 1: wind generator or something like that, or not a wind generator, 842 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,440 Speaker 1: but the wind harvesting wind driven. Yeah, that would if 843 00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,399 Speaker 1: you if you live in a very sunny, windy place, 844 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,640 Speaker 1: that would work out well for you. If you don't, 845 00:45:56,719 --> 00:46:01,160 Speaker 1: then uh, you know, that probably probably be marginal improvement 846 00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,279 Speaker 1: over just solar panels alone. But anyway, it was fun 847 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,279 Speaker 1: to go back and look at this old topic and 848 00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,360 Speaker 1: kind of updated. As Lauren and I have both discovered 849 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,280 Speaker 1: in our extensive work in the field of technology, stuff 850 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,680 Speaker 1: don't stay the same you It more or less changes 851 00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,520 Speaker 1: before we can even publish our podcast episodes. Right, So, 852 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,239 Speaker 1: if there are any topics that you want to hear 853 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,920 Speaker 1: more about, whether it's something we have never covered before, 854 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,319 Speaker 1: or maybe there's a topic that we Maybe you heard 855 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,320 Speaker 1: an old episode of tech Stuff and thought, whatever happened 856 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,680 Speaker 1: to such and such or has that changed or has 857 00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:36,480 Speaker 1: it evolved or did it go away? And you're just 858 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:38,040 Speaker 1: curious and you want to hear us talk about it. 859 00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,239 Speaker 1: Let us know, get in touch with us. It's just 860 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,640 Speaker 1: us an email or addresses tech Stuff at Discovery dot 861 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,560 Speaker 1: com or try us down on social media. You can 862 00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:50,080 Speaker 1: find us on Facebook, Twitter, and Tumbler. Our handle is 863 00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,359 Speaker 1: tech Stuff hs W and Lauren and I will talk 864 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:59,880 Speaker 1: to you again really soon. For more on this and 865 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:08,600 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics, visit how stuff works dot com, 866 00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:08,279 Speaker 1: m