1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 2: Welcome to akadath Here, a podcast about things falling apart 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 2: and also sometimes about how not to put them back 4 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 2: together and how to fail to put them back together. 5 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 2: I am your host, Miya Wong, and today we are 6 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 2: going to be talking about the place where the anti 7 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 2: trians crusade began, North Carolina, and about the recent spade 8 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: of anti trans bills that have been passed there. And 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 2: with me to talk about this is David Forbes, an 10 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 2: editor and journalist with a trans news network and the 11 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 2: Asheville Blade. David, welcome to the show. 12 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 3: Thank you. 13 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 2: So I think some people, if you're listening to this show, 14 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 2: you may remember that North Carolina is the state that 15 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,919 Speaker 2: passed the first bathroom bills. But what has gotten significantly 16 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 2: less attention is a everything that happened after that, and 17 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 2: b a series of two really sweeping and hideous anti 18 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 2: trans bills that have been passed in the last month 19 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 2: or so. And David wrote a really really good piece 20 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 2: for trans News Network about both these bills and also 21 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 2: how democrats in the state helped pass them. So I 22 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 2: want to talk about that, and I guess the place 23 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 2: to start is, can you talk about what these two 24 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 2: bills HB aight oh five and SB four four to 25 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 2: two got started. 26 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 4: Sure, so of the two, HBAH five is the more 27 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,559 Speaker 4: sweeping broadly, at least, they're both terrible anti trans bill. 28 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 4: It affects everything from changing your birth certificate to state 29 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 4: health plans not covering trans healthcare to really ominously like 30 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 4: what jail or prison you get put into if you're 31 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 4: a trans person and you're arrested. That one, it's kind 32 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 4: of a laundry list of you know, far right anti 33 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 4: trans ideas. The other SB four forty two is one 34 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 4: of those where it takes some digging. And here I'm 35 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 4: really thankful that TNN's policy analyst, who I think y'all 36 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 4: have had on herttem's Kareean Green in the show, was 37 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 4: actually there to yes, was a huge help in reviewing 38 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 4: this bill. I've been covered with North Carolina politics and 39 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 4: it's various horrors for a long time. But even still, 40 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 4: it's good to have like legislative expertise on that. And 41 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 4: SA four forty two changes the definition of child abuse 42 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 4: to not include transphobic child abuse. Essentially, it was written 43 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 4: against the very fictional specter of like, oh, if you 44 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 4: have questions about this trans stuff and you get your 45 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 4: kids pronouns wrong, DSS could come like snatch them overnight, 46 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 4: which is not a thing that has ever happened, no, 47 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 4: including them, especially North Carolina, Like yeah, yeah, so, but 48 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 4: what it does is just bluntly open the way, especially 49 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 4: in the state foster care system, for just anti trans 50 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 4: bigotry across the board. You know, at this point it's like, okay, well, 51 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 4: placement can be ni based on someone's religion or their race, 52 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 4: and being a trans vote, you know, it's like that's 53 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 4: that's being added those protected identities. It's also essentially letting 54 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 4: the ground work for just even more legal sanctioning of 55 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 4: conversion therapy, which is of course torture and abuse. I 56 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 4: think Cream summed up as that if you if you 57 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 4: don't have a transkid to abuse, foster care will provide 58 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 4: one for yeah, which is it's really bleak. Yeah we chuckle, 59 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 4: but it's we chuckle and like gallows humor because it's 60 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 4: that absurd. So SB four forty two was the one 61 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 4: that kind of went through the whole legislative process first, 62 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 4: and in some ways it had less of a party 63 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 4: line treatment than HB eighth five eventually did so you know, 64 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 4: say credit where do But NC Senate Democrats, of whom 65 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 4: there aren't terribly many, but there are some did universally 66 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 4: vote against this bill. They were like, no, we're not 67 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 4: approving it. However, the GOP has a two thirds majority 68 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 4: in there, so it's really not as necessary. They can 69 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 4: potentially override a veto. And they're where things really came 70 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 4: down to as North Caronina House, and they are nine 71 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 4: Democrats joined with the Republicans to pass this, and then 72 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 4: it got to the desk of Governor Josh Stein, who 73 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 4: wanted a landslide last year. Like North Carolina Democrats, despite 74 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 4: how Jerry mayor of the state is, which we'll talk 75 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 4: about more in a little bit, actually did pretty well. 76 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 4: The GOP no longer had a super majority in the House, 77 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,119 Speaker 4: and the Democratic candidate for governor, former Attorney General Josh Stein, 78 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 4: won in a route. 79 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 3: So essentially that was supposed to prevent bills. 80 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 4: Like this from becoming law because, Okay, if the Dems 81 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 4: held the line in the North Carolina the House, the 82 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 4: Republicans own the supermajority, then the governor vetos it, then 83 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 4: they can't override the veto. 84 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 3: That didn't happen. 85 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 4: So not only did nine Democrats side with Republicans, Stein 86 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 4: signed the bill, yeah, which is hideous. Yeah, and it 87 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 4: was it was bleakly insul the way he did it too, 88 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 4: because it was just like he didn't even issue a 89 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 4: statement or oh, like, well we still believe in trans rights. 90 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 4: This is a bureaucratic thing or even bother to make 91 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 4: an excuse. It was just tuck in a list of 92 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 4: bills that he signed that day alongside like some other 93 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 4: bureaucratic stuff involving like retirement communities and recognizing driver's licenses. 94 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 4: So it's definitely kind of insult to injury sort of situation. Interestingly, 95 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 4: North Carolina's gay ink organizations, you're kind of like the 96 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 4: main line nonprofits and in North kind of there's like 97 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 4: a quality and see there's a campaignsion the quality, which 98 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 4: is regional but is based in the state here in Nashville. 99 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 4: They actually had been very strongly against this bill, despite 100 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 4: some Democrats supporting it, but they stopped short, as will 101 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 4: become a theme with condemning. 102 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 3: Or attacking any of the Democrats who. 103 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 4: Did, which was a giant signal that this is not 104 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 4: an issue you're really going to fight Democrats on so 105 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 4: the governor then thinks, well, there's no political capital be 106 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 4: lost signing this thing. On the same day, he did 107 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 4: veto HB eightoh five I, along with a bunch of 108 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 4: other bills targeting, you know, in quote Mark's dei measures, 109 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 4: which are basically attempts to smash out anything that's not 110 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 4: far right and further research shape the state, and he 111 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 4: did veto those. The language you use, though, was definitely 112 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 4: what a lot of us become used to. It's the oh, 113 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 4: this was divisive. No trans people mentioned, no trans healthcare mention, 114 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 4: no trans rights mentioned, just vaguely, well, this is divisive 115 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 4: and it's a distraction. So HB EIGHTO five does actually 116 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 4: go back to the legislature, and one Democrat had voted 117 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 4: for HBAO five, So there was a tension turning of Okay, 118 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 4: is this guy gonna still vote for a veto override 119 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 4: Representative Dante Pittman, because it's a big deal, supposedly anyway, 120 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 4: for a Democrat to defy their own governor. It's one 121 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 4: thing when it's like you're just okay, you know the 122 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 4: bill's going to pass. It's still horrible, but it's supposedly 123 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 4: a harder bar to reach, or at least that's what 124 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 4: various you know, instensibly pro Queer Democrats are telling us 125 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 4: for them to go on the record be like no, 126 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 4: I'm joining with the other party to own varide your 127 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 4: veto and like give you the middle finger, essentially. But 128 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 4: what happened when he got to the House, he actually 129 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 4: did did vote to hold with the veto. But another 130 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 4: representative's been out on a pretty dubious excused absence when 131 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 4: HBOO five was ritually they're Democratic rep Nasif Maajid voted 132 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 4: in favor. 133 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, and that was enough to make it law. 134 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 4: So the one thing that among queer and transing North 135 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 4: Carolina who liked a lot of their places, voted very 136 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 4: heavily against the Republicans, you know, for the Democratic candidates 137 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 4: and all. It's one reason they did fairly well last 138 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 4: year to stop exactly this sort of legislation becoming law. 139 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 4: It just became law, and it did so thanks to 140 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 4: members of the Democratic Party and in one bill, the 141 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 4: Democratic governor. 142 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 2: Both of these bills are unbelievably draconian, like these are 143 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 2: things that even like two years ago, like banning state 144 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 2: funding for like all trans healthcare. 145 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 3: Well for the state health plan. We should specify. 146 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sorry, it is like the state health care 147 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 2: but co And this is at least my understanding of it, 148 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 2: is that this is a ban on. 149 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 4: All ages, yes, for anyone on the state health care plan. 150 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 4: So if someone is a state employee or a teacher, yeah, 151 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 4: or like your kids are exactly, and it's kin. Actually 152 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 4: it's close to home for me because I grew up 153 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 4: poor in North Carolina and one of the only reasons 154 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 4: we had health care growing up was my mom, as 155 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 4: poorly paid as she was, was a public school teacher. 156 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 4: So you know, it's a trans kid in where I was. 157 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 4: Now where we know, you know, it's easier for trans 158 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 4: kids to know who they are. It's not quite as 159 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 4: a race as it was back in the nineties. Ye 160 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 4: can't get health care a trains adult who's a teacher 161 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 4: can't have their health care covered anymore. 162 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 2: And that's a thing that like two years ago, Ron 163 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 2: DeSantis wasn't calling for this. No, right, the Daily Wire 164 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 2: at that point, like two years ago, is explicitly calling 165 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 2: for trans extorminacious things, but they're not specifically proposing adults 166 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 2: can't use trans healthcare. That's not a thing like, yeah, 167 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 2: that was that was even on the table, and now 168 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 2: you have like you have a Democrat overwriting their own 169 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 2: governor's veto to get this through. 170 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 4: Yes, a Democrat in a solidly blue district. Magine's district 171 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 4: is in the middle of Charlotte, which for folks who 172 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 4: may I mean it familiar to sit like Charlott's largest 173 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 4: city here and it is not known for being like 174 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 4: at least on voting law, as it doesn't go for 175 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 4: the GOP generally. 176 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then this is the same point that I 177 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 2: want to make about this bill, like redefining what child 178 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 2: abuse is like even by the standards of sort of 179 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 2: like far right anti trans bills, those are really weird 180 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 2: and radical. 181 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,079 Speaker 4: Korean said it was one of the worst that she'd 182 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 4: seen in the country as far as like on the 183 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 4: childcare front. 184 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 2: From my covering of this too, Yeah, this is one 185 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 2: of the worst things I've ever seen, and the Democratic 186 00:09:58,800 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 2: Party has to. 187 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 4: It passed with nine Democrats in favor and the governor 188 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 4: signed it. Yeah, that's unbelievably horrifying. 189 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 5: Yeah. 190 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 2: And the fact that the queer wargs in the state 191 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 2: were unwilling to condemn the Democrats who passed this is 192 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:14,599 Speaker 2: just horrifying. 193 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 4: It is, and actually goes one further than that, because 194 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 4: afterwards they didn't even bother to put out perfunctory oh, 195 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 4: we're disappointed, Governor's stein, you know, we will continue to 196 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 4: try to fight this legislation in court or something like that. 197 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 4: They did nothing. Yeah, they just they went silent. So 198 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 4: and you know, their condinations of SB four forty two, 199 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 4: especially before this bill passed, they were all correct. It 200 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 4: is horrible. It does sanction child abuse. It is horrific 201 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 4: on every single front. It is a catastrophe. It is 202 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 4: draconian all that. It didn't stop being so when Democrats 203 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 4: started supporting it. Yeah, the kids hurt by this family's 204 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 4: hurt by this aren't going to be any less hurt 205 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 4: because a Democrat signed on to it. 206 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 5: Yeah. 207 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 2: And before we go to break the thing I want 208 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 2: to sort of close this section with is that, like, 209 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 2: you know, I think it's a very very common thing 210 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 2: to focus on, like, okay, why are you focusing on 211 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 2: the Democrats right now when the Republicans are doing all 212 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 2: of this stuff. And this is a case where very 213 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 2: explicitly and this is the dynamic I think you've seen 214 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 2: across the board with for example, like Chuck Schumer like 215 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 2: helping to get their Republican budget through right. Yes, the 216 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 2: stuff the Republicans are doing, a lot of it can't 217 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 2: be implemented without the support of the Democrats, and the 218 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 2: Democrats have been willing to support the fascist government implementing 219 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 2: this stuff, and that makes them a collaborationist party. Yes, 220 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 2: in a lot of extremely important cases. And when that happens. 221 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 2: In North Carolina is one of the places at the forefront, 222 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,959 Speaker 2: and it has been at the forefront for like a decade, 223 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 2: for nearly a decade, but yeah, for nearly a decade. 224 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,959 Speaker 2: It's like eight years, seven seven, eight years nine nine. 225 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 4: As of this year, it's nine years since HB two. 226 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,319 Speaker 4: Good Lord along in the spring of twenty six six. 227 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, oh that is yeah. 228 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 2: This is do not do not go to sleep at 229 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 2: five in the morning and then try to do math 230 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 2: live on the area. It will come for you too, 231 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 2: really truly, it was China s attract sixteenth of Okay, 232 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 2: this is this, this, this, this, this is your one 233 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,839 Speaker 2: moment of levity and a bunch of extremely bleak shit. 234 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 2: Isn't be trying and failing to do math on air. Look, 235 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 2: I can drive, that's and I'm sticking to it. But 236 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 2: what we were seeing here is the way in which 237 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 2: like resistance to the GUOPN this is a place like 238 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 2: North Carolina is a state where in the midst of 239 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 2: a just unbelievable national right wing turn right queer people 240 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 2: turned out to stop this. Yeah, and their reward for 241 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 2: their resistance was the people that they had put in 242 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 2: charge of defending them, and in as staggering of an 243 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 2: example of the banality of evil as I've ever seen, 244 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 2: just signed this horrific piece of anti trans legislation that 245 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 2: couldn't have been passed without them into effect in the 246 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 2: same thing as like fucking as a bunch of regulatory bullshit. 247 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, and then Gaying did nothing. 248 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 4: The groups they're supposed to lobby at the football this 249 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 4: is the point of their existence in nothing. Yeah, at 250 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 4: that point, they just they let they let it go, 251 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 4: you know, on the next fundraising cycle, onto the next 252 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 4: AI meme too on your page to boost you know, 253 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 4: content generation or whatever. 254 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 5: And here we are, and we are back. 255 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 2: Now for the brevity of this show, I am not 256 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 2: going to go into my giant rant about how this 257 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 2: is what happened with mid Rand and the French socialists 258 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 2: and how mid Rand and the Socialist Party instituted neoliberal 259 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 2: isab in France. But Coma we are instead of instead 260 00:13:57,559 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 2: of doing that, or me going on another rant about 261 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 2: the absorption of social movements the Nies of Bolivia, or 262 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 2: another rant about the seventeen different iterations of this that 263 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 2: we've seen over the years. See my episodes on Lula, 264 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 2: see many many, many, many many things I've done. We're 265 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 2: going to go back and talk about this in the 266 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 2: context of North Carolina because I think there's a really 267 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 2: very a very important thread that David you have been 268 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 2: pulling on in this piece and in general that is 269 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 2: really not well understood anywhere. That is about the structure 270 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 2: and function of the Democratic Party in the South and 271 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 2: the way that North Carolina has functioned is it's sort 272 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 2: of like the moderate human face of like the Greensboro massacre. 273 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 3: Oh my, yeah. And so this is one of those 274 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 3: where to start thing. 275 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 4: There's a quote that I have in the piece by 276 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 4: civil rights historian Timothy Tyson that, since I read it, 277 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 4: I think over a decade ago, really just kind of 278 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 4: hit me like a hammer and is kind of simple. 279 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 4: All the experience I've seen as a you know, impoverished 280 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 4: trans woman living in North Carolina and covering you know, 281 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 4: local state government and how federal government works on the 282 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 4: ground here too, Like beneath the green ivy of civility 283 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 4: that a stone wall of coercion. Yeah, and that is 284 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 4: one of the better summaries, and it applies other circumstances too, 285 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 4: but it is it just perfectly sums up kind of 286 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 4: the historical real the North Kinne Democratic Party. And when 287 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 4: Tyson was doing that, he was tracing this whole history 288 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 4: from the eighteen ninety eight Wilmington Cudaeta and massacre, which 289 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 4: is one of the most decisive. 290 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 3: Events in American history. 291 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 4: And I'd even say in like the history of the 292 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 4: rise of fascism too, to the current day. He was 293 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 4: writing the late nineties and is part of a project 294 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 4: of historians. And one of the terms they were using 295 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 4: was has this progressive mystique while you were having governors 296 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 4: on their southern states during the Civil Rights era, where 297 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 4: you know, giving angry speeches from courthouses and things like that, 298 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 4: and North Carolina was trying to be the moderate example 299 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 4: of the South. Oh, you know, we put money into 300 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 4: look at all these schools and roads were building this 301 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 4: college system we're building. We just built Research Triangle Park, 302 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 4: you know, we're we're attracting, you know. It's the too 303 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 4: busy to hate kind of myth. And on that note, 304 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 4: they generally were more careful about repression, but it still happened. 305 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 4: You know, North crowd doesn't make the headlines and some 306 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 4: of the like Selma did, for example, But there was 307 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 4: a history of riots and a brutal attemps of repression 308 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 4: from the forties all the way to the seventies yep, 309 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 4: in North Carolina. And they happened like in almost every city, 310 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 4: major city there is here, you know, and some that 311 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 4: weren't so major. 312 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 2: That's the thing that we've I've talked about a little 313 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 2: bit on the show with the Holy Week uprising and 314 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 2: the sort of the whole wave of riots kind of 315 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 2: culminating in the assassination of Martin Luther King. But like, yeah, 316 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 2: like statistically, most of the riots that happened in that 317 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 2: entire period happened in these small and midsize cities. Yeah, 318 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 2: that have just like this memory which has just been 319 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 2: completely fucking buried. Yeah, and North Carolina, as you say, 320 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 2: like it's one of the critical. 321 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 3: Sites of this. 322 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, Durham was rioting in the forties. Yeah, like that, 323 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 4: that's how far back it goes. And I think a 324 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 4: lot of time people think, oh, well, not much happen 325 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 4: in this era, and I think it's just a lack 326 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 4: of knowledge of history, especially radical history. Did it not 327 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 4: happen or was it suppressed? And then erase, yeah, yeah, 328 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 4: and that happened a lot of this, So you had, 329 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 4: you know, and figures like Governor Terry Samfert the time, 330 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 4: who was you know, famous North Caroline Democrat. And yeah, 331 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 4: if the klan was like openly marching to murder people, 332 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 4: he might say like, okay, look a massacre's bad news. 333 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 4: We are going to like put the state troopers out 334 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 4: to them from doing that. But a lot of civil 335 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 4: rights activists end up dead, yeah, you know, or there's 336 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 4: still like violent crackdowns, you know, during the Greensboro if 337 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 4: he was a site at both of some really well 338 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 4: organized like civil rights efforts and sit ins and more 339 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 4: radical action too, but also have a lot of repression. 340 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 4: You know, by nineteen seventy nine, when the States boosters 341 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 4: are portraying, you know, all that evil is a thing 342 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 4: of the past, This anti racist marched or anti clan 343 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 4: Mark specifically organized by this communist group in Greensboro, was 344 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 4: massacred the clan and Neo Nazis came in. They just 345 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 4: opened fire on people. Largely they were acquitted later and 346 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 4: ensuing years, a lot of investigation has been done into 347 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 4: this and various levels of local and state and aft 348 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 4: the fact federal law enforcement were very complicit and things 349 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 4: ranging from just kind of trying to sweep it under 350 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 4: the rug to outright especially the local level like cooperating 351 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 4: with the clan. A lot of them were either aware 352 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 4: this is going on and did nothing to stop it, 353 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 4: or even actively fed the clan information. There's a book 354 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 4: recently called Morningside that goes into a lot of a 355 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 4: lot of this detail that encourage folks to take a 356 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 4: look at. But that's the reality of North Carolina, and 357 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 4: that's the reality beneath the progressive mystique. And one of 358 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 4: the historians I quote in the piece mentioned that this 359 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 4: is an exquisite instrument of social control, because you've kind 360 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 4: of already framed the discussion as, oh, it's just this 361 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 4: genteel civil thing. We'll hear you out. Just be a 362 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 4: little more patient. But if stuff ever really escalates, there 363 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 4: is the option of just flat out smears violence and massacre, 364 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 4: and knowing the history of North Carolina, you know a 365 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 4: lot of this was directed at black North Carolinians, but 366 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 4: also it was used to crush labor stuff. A lot 367 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 4: of the people killed in the Greensboro massacre were also 368 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 4: organizing in the textile mills. And North Carolina under the 369 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 4: Democrats under their moderate period had and continues to have 370 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 4: some of the most draconian anti labor laws in the country, 371 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 4: which takes some work. So that's kind of the reality 372 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 4: in North Carolina and of the Democratic Party here, and 373 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 4: they lean on that mystique heavily, and honestly, I think 374 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 4: a lot of it is what they evoke. As you know, 375 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 4: we're the defenders of the sane, sensible civil status quo. 376 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 4: Even saw some Mustein's statements about HBAO five when he 377 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 4: did veto it, it's like, well, this is divisive, it's 378 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 4: making too many ways. We need to get back to business, 379 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 4: which they not just a business garment. They literally mean business. 380 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 4: We're marketing the state and making more money and then 381 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,959 Speaker 4: never means making more money for the gentry. See, that's 382 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 4: kind of the reality of North Carolina. Beneath this kind 383 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 4: of you know how things supposedly are better and more 384 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 4: progressive here in the end of the day, you can 385 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 4: still get massacred. 386 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think on a sort of structural level, right, 387 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 2: I think there's going to be people who are being like, well, Okay, 388 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 2: why the fuck do I give a shit about North Carolina? 389 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 2: And one and this is something that you point out 390 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 2: in the piece, and something that's really obvious if you 391 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 2: spend literally any time in the South. Is that what 392 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 2: I think? It's thirty six percent of the South is like, 393 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 2: what's what's the actual number? I should have looked this 394 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 2: up before. 395 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 4: So of the national population of queer and trans people, 396 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 4: thirty six percent live in the South, which is far 397 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 4: more than any other region, like by a wide market 398 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,239 Speaker 4: I think, under the same twenty twenty three calculation. And 399 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 4: there was another reason story that they came out swiftly 400 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 4: about trans people. All these have h it is a 401 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 4: general rule that trans people, especially in area where they 402 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 4: are more legally and violently marginalized, are wildly undercounted. Ye, 403 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 4: but it maps to about the same numbers I think 404 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 4: of trains people in the country. The SME population is 405 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 4: about thirty three to thirty six percent live in the 406 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 4: South and in the in the twenty twenty three one 407 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 4: The next highest amount live in the Midwest, which is 408 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 4: kind of different from how you see things portrayed that 409 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 4: you know, we're just this, yeah, this coastal you know it, 410 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 4: lad Bohemians on a few coastal cities. As a matter 411 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 4: of fact, there are a lot of trains people in 412 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 4: the South and the Midwest. Yeah, we've been here for ages, 413 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 4: We're still here. Yeah, Yeah, it's it's it's it's North Carolina, 414 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 4: it's Texas, it's fucking New Orleans, West Virginia, Florida, you know. 415 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and again like in terms of like okay, so 416 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 2: I'm not in those places, like A, but we all 417 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 2: have a responsibility to all queer people as cooor people, 418 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 2: right like we have we have, we have responsibility to 419 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 2: each other, and we should fucking fight for each other. 420 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 2: And b you can look at what happened in North Carolina, 421 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 2: and it was deliberately This is the place where the 422 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 2: right wing's anti trans strategy was born, and it was 423 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 2: exported from the success that they had in North Carolina 424 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 2: to the entire rest of the fucking country. Yes, right 425 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 2: with the bathroom bills, and this is something we're going 426 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 2: to get into it a second, with the way the 427 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 2: Democratic Party like didn't react to those bathroom bills. The 428 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 2: last point that I want to make here is that 429 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 2: this strategy of control is also very similar to the 430 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 2: one that the Democrats use in places like San Francisco, 431 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 2: where you have this sort of progressive veneer over. You 432 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 2: know that the constellation well I guess, I guess the 433 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 2: constellation of class forces is getting more similar as big 434 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 2: tech moves into like that part of the South. But 435 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 2: you know, it's this constellation of like, oh, hey, we 436 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 2: are the queer rights Party, but our actual interests are 437 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 2: this combination of housing developers' landlords and tech giants, and 438 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 2: so as an a of social control, we're going to 439 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 2: do this like, hey, we're extremely pro trends stuff, and 440 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 2: then we're going to throw a whole bunch of fucking 441 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 2: trends homeless people into concentration camps. Yeah, and that's the 442 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 2: thing that like, you know, we're gonna I'm going to 443 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 2: talk more about this on the show another time. With 444 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 2: the ways that Trump's anti homeless executive orders, some of 445 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 2: the models for it are the way that sweeps have 446 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 2: been working in places like Oakland's. We've talked about this 447 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 2: on the show before, but yeah, this mechanism of social 448 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 2: control is one that's really really widespread. And the South 449 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 2: operates as a laboratory for that too, in the same 450 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 2: way that it operates the laboratory for the right. 451 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think that's really important because since this 452 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 4: is the point, I can't I can't hone this point 453 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 4: enough and make it sharp enough. Frankly, folks need to 454 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 4: take it really seriously. Whether you call the South or 455 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 4: not fascist do the far right does, and they have 456 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 4: for a long long time, if you did, not as 457 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 4: a place to ignore, but as a place to consolidate 458 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 4: power and try out their tactics. Too often, the left, 459 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 4: even the queer left, has not. We have all suffered 460 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 4: for it. 461 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is the whole thing for the historical 462 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 2: left right, Like one of the things that broke the 463 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 2: American labor movement was the defeat of the CIO in 464 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 2: the South. Yeah, I mean all the way back to 465 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 2: I mean events you were literally talking about, like the 466 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 2: defeat of reconstruction. This is why this country is like this. 467 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 2: And if you don't want the country to be like this, 468 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 2: you have to fucking fight in the South. Yes, that's 469 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 2: all we've got time for for today, But tomorrow we 470 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 2: will be back to talk about the long and sordid 471 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 2: history of the Democratic Party's progressive veneer in North Carolina 472 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 2: and what truly lies beneath it, and we will look 473 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 2: at how the original response to the twenty sixteen bathroom 474 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 2: bills set the stage for both Democratic Party in North 475 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 2: Carolina's passing ADVANTI trans laws today and the future of 476 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 2: the rest of the country. 477 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 478 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 479 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 480 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. 481 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:14,880 Speaker 2: Listen to podcasts. 482 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: You can now find sources for It Could Happen here, 483 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: listed directly in episode descriptions. 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