1 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: You're listening to Alive Again, a production of Psychopia Pictures 2 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: and iHeart Podcasts. 3 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 2: Well, alright, so my name is Charlie Collins. Nineteen eighty 4 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 2: eight October. I was electrocuted by twelve thousand, five hundred volts, 5 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 2: and in two thousand and seven I died to self 6 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 2: and was reborn. 7 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Alive Again, a podcast that showcases miraculous accounts 8 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: of human fragility and resilience from people whose lives were 9 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: forever altered after having almost died. These are first hand 10 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: accounts of near death experiences and more broadly, brushes with death. 11 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: Our mission is simple, find, explore, and share these stories 12 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: to remind us all of our shared human condition. Please 13 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: keep it mind these stories are true and maybe triggering 14 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: for some listener discretion, as advised. 15 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 2: In nineteen like seventy seven, I was slowing down in school. 16 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 2: I wasn't paying attention and they were running an eye 17 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 2: test out in the hallway and I wasn't doing well 18 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 2: at the last couple of lines. And we went to 19 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 2: the eye doctor and there was nothing. They were I 20 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: was a psychiatrist. I was at special LED type. I 21 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 2: you know, I don't know, but my parents tried all 22 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 2: their things, and they just couldn't put their finger on it. 23 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 2: But after two years of being in and out of 24 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 2: doctor's offices trying to figure out what was going on, 25 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 2: we found ourselves in our big old Plymouth station wagon 26 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 2: ending up the mass irooneer in Boston, and after a 27 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 2: couple of days of testing, it was determined that I 28 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 2: had a very rare eye disease called juvenile macular degeneration. 29 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 2: By age thirteen, I was then declared legally blind by 30 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 2: the state of Connecticut. And I wanted to be a 31 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 2: jet fighter, pilot of cop race boats, motorcycles, cars, be 32 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 2: a detective, anything that was dangerous and fast. And I 33 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 2: remember thinking, well, they just took all my life streams away. 34 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 2: You know. I went to school one day and I 35 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 2: was walking down the hallway and I could hear everybody 36 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 2: and I could see movement. But I realized I don't 37 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 2: have much detail I sight anymore. And I went into 38 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 2: class and it was just like sitting in the front 39 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 2: rows where they put me because I was the vision 40 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 2: impaired guy and kid, I should say. And in that time, 41 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 2: you know, teachers start writing on a board and I 42 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 2: could kind of see some of it, and then it 43 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 2: was okay, open your books to this page. We're going 44 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 2: to read. And I remember my heart just dropping in 45 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 2: my chest, thinking we're going to read. I hate reading. 46 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 2: And you know, after class, off the gym we went, 47 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 2: and today was going to be a dodgeball. Oh Man, 48 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 2: dodgeball sucks. There was two captains picking the people on 49 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 2: their teams, and I got picked last because the kids 50 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,679 Speaker 2: knew I don't want him on my team. He's not 51 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,239 Speaker 2: going to help us win. I didn't see it that way. 52 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 2: I only saw it as who wants the loser on 53 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 2: their team. That's why I got picked last. And I 54 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 2: went home that day, and that was the day my 55 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 2: mom said, you got some mail. Mail. I don't get mail. Well, 56 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: rellion was a big envelope and I ripped it open. 57 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: Charles J. Collins, you have been declared legally blind by 58 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 2: the State of Connecticut. And I was thinking, well, that's 59 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 2: that's fantastic. I can't wait to go hang that up 60 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 2: in my bedroom next to my fair FOWCEP post or. 61 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: And that that was really the beginning of a shutdown. 62 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 2: The self esteem, the self pity, the depression, that poor me, 63 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 2: the life, just what is this meaning, why has this 64 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 2: been done to me? For the next ten years, that's 65 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,679 Speaker 2: what I focused on, what wasn't working, how I wasn't 66 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 2: going to succeed achieve. You know, I started drinking and 67 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 2: doing more drugs. I didn't know. I didn't know what 68 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 2: to do. You know, I did try college and I 69 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 2: failed out three times. But I didn't fail out. I 70 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 2: feared out of college. I'm not seeing any purpose for me. 71 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't feel connected. I'm going I'm 72 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 2: just feeling alone. And I was focused on me and 73 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 2: what wasn't working in my life. I was a big, 74 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 2: grateful dead fan back in the day. Well I still 75 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 2: am today, and I hain't been going to a lot 76 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 2: of concerts and things, and you know, I was trying 77 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: to find my lane, and that music and those people 78 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 2: put me in a place where I felt free. I 79 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 2: felt no bondage of self. You know, I was connected. 80 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 2: I might not have known this dude ever, but anybody 81 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 2: I talked to I instantly had a connection with. At 82 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 2: this one concert in Madison Square Garden on the way home, 83 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 2: we were taking the train, and I always was the 84 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 2: type of guy that did crazy things. So you would say, dude, 85 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 2: that's sick. You know you liked me because I knew 86 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: you didn't like me for who I was. Because who 87 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 2: I was was a loser, a legally blind guy. It 88 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 2: never was going to mount to anything. I'm not good enough. 89 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 2: I'm not tall enough, strong enough. I'm just not enough. 90 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 2: So if I do things that wow you, or you 91 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 2: think I'm crazy, because you know I'm not the legally 92 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 2: blind loser. If you thought of me what I think 93 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 2: of me, oh my gosh, kill me now. So I 94 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 2: did crazy things. So on the Metro North train, I 95 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 2: decided to squeeze through the cars and I felt the 96 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 2: ladder out there, and I pulled myself outside the train 97 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 2: and I stood out there and I went, now, this 98 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 2: is exciting. I jumped back in the train, and I 99 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 2: went to my buddies and I say, guys, check this out. 100 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,919 Speaker 2: And they watched me disappear, and then I jump back in. 101 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 2: I'm say, come on out, let me show you what 102 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 2: I'm doing. They're like, all right. I went out and 103 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 2: then I went up to the top of the ladder. 104 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 2: I had a tall Boy in my left hand. I 105 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 2: probably had a Marlboro in my right hand. You know. 106 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 2: I got to the top and I stood up on 107 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 2: the top of the car and looking at my two buddies. 108 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 2: They're looking up at me, and I'm thinking I'm the king. 109 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 2: I'm standing up on top of the train with my 110 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 2: arms up in the air, and they're looking at me 111 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 2: as somebody who matters. And my buddy was at the 112 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 2: top of the ladder and he's like, dude, be careful. 113 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 2: And in that moment, the car shifted. I grabbed the 114 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 2: electricity going into the train system and shorted out the 115 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 2: entire train system and all of the electricity went through me, 116 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 2: blew out my arm, blew a whole big hole on 117 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 2: my side, under my arms, on my sighs, on my knees, 118 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 2: and on my ankles. The amount of electricity it runs 119 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 2: a twenty something car plus huge long train system. I 120 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 2: took all of that through my body. I came to 121 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: and I was sitting under the train, screaming my arm, 122 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 2: my arm, my arm. I was sizzling. The next thing 123 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 2: I know is in an ambulance and they would pour 124 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 2: water on me from head to toe. The minute they finished, 125 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 2: I could please hurry up, and they would just open 126 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 2: big jugs of gallons of water and dump it right 127 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 2: down my body. It was the only relief. But where 128 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 2: I went in that time was I was not there. 129 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 2: I did not see a snapshot of my past, current, 130 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 2: future life when this happened to me. None of that, 131 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 2: No movie played quicker past memories. I remember a lot 132 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 2: of white light. I believe my grandfather came to me 133 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 2: in that moment of transitioning between consciousness and back into 134 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 2: unconscious And I definitely believe my grandfather came to me 135 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 2: and he said come back. And I just remember him 136 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 2: saying come back. And I don't know why I thought 137 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 2: he was there when I came to I thought he 138 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 2: was physically there. So it's the weirdest thing because I 139 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 2: remember asking my mother, is pot here. She's like, no, honey. 140 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 2: He died. He had died three years prior to that, 141 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 2: and we were very tight, and he was very hard 142 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 2: on me in a loving way because he believed in me. 143 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 2: He saw in me what I did not see, and 144 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 2: he tried to help me see that and bring it 145 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 2: out of me. I absolutely have the sense that he 146 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 2: was there. I believe he came to me and he said, 147 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 2: cut the you know what and get back here. I 148 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 2: came to again this time when I came to. I 149 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 2: was covered in gauze my entire body. The only thing 150 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 2: exposed were my eyes when I opened my eyes, and 151 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,199 Speaker 2: I was hooked all sorts of things coming right out 152 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 2: of my chest. But I remember opening my eyes in 153 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 2: it was a priest standing there, and they went, oh, gosh, 154 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 2: is this what happens when you die? I was kind 155 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 2: of hoping, you know, it would be different. My mother 156 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 2: came running in the room and I The first thing 157 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 2: I asked it was please get rid of the priest. 158 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 2: I'm not dying. They thought I was, like, because I 159 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 2: was burnt really bad all over. Then it was The 160 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 2: journey began lowering me on a stretcher type thing with 161 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 2: a conveyor like a button like, and they would lower 162 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 2: me down to as salt and saline bath that I'd 163 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 2: have to drop into naked, and I'd have my one 164 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 2: good arm covering my private because you know, come on, 165 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 2: there's ladies somewhere. I would drop into this thing, and 166 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 2: it was unbelievable because I had to keep it clean 167 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 2: because infection would killed me instantly. Because I had open 168 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 2: swords all over me. My right arm was about the 169 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 2: size of my leg, and they were obviously they needed 170 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 2: to imputate it, and I thought, if you do that, 171 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 2: kill me. I'm a legally blind guy. Life is hard enough. 172 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 2: I'm not going out with one arm. And they had 173 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 2: this meeting and I somehow pushed my way over to 174 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 2: the wall and I grabbed a handful of all the 175 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 2: cables keeping me going. I ripped it out of the wall. 176 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:34,439 Speaker 2: All these alarms went off and people came running, and 177 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 2: I said, if you can't find me a doctor that 178 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 2: can save my arm, I don't want. I'm gonna die 179 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 2: because I can't face this life with more disability than 180 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 2: I already have. You know, I got asked in the hospital, 181 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 2: how much were you drinking that night? I'm like, what 182 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 2: the heck does that have to do with it? Had 183 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 2: everything to do with it. You know. I had drinking problem, 184 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:03,119 Speaker 2: a drug problem. I had a self esteem, promaded depression, 185 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 2: promide anxiety. I was a prisoner of my own mind, 186 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 2: this bondage of self, this were me, this life that 187 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 2: I had created that I didn't know I did. I 188 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 2: thought that I was a bad boy. So you know, 189 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 2: you're gonna get the life that you deserve. Because legally 190 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 2: blind people and people that drink and do bad things, 191 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 2: and you know, my life was it was scary. So 192 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 2: in the hospital, something shifted. It's like you could lay 193 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 2: in this bed, but I'm hearing screams down the hallways. 194 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 2: I'm there's a lot to really really hurt people in 195 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 2: the Bridgeport burning unit. I started looking and listening to 196 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 2: them and my body without me thinking about this sucks. 197 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 2: It's so hard. I hate this, the pain I'm in. 198 00:12:54,760 --> 00:13:01,199 Speaker 2: I didn't have any pain anymore. I took the attention 199 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 2: off me. It was amazing. My attention went to helping them. 200 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 2: It took me a while to rehab after I got 201 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 2: out of hospital too. You know, I wore job skins 202 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 2: and that's when I started using adaptive technology and things 203 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 2: turned in my life. I went into the motorcycle business, 204 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 2: and I mean me, I legally blind guy gets asked 205 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,199 Speaker 2: to work in a motorcycle business. I'm like, well, you're nuts, 206 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 2: I'm blind. I can't do this. You're crazy. You don't 207 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 2: want me. I'll never succeed. I didn't say all that. 208 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 2: What's really important is the gentleman said to me, well, 209 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 2: I believe in you. I almost cried right there. He 210 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 2: believes in me. Jimbo. Jimbo was the owner of the company, 211 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 2: and Jimbo looked at me and he said, I believe 212 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 2: in you. You've been coming in here for three years. 213 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 2: You love motorcycles, You bring some energy in here. You 214 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 2: would be an asset to our team and I'd love 215 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 2: to have you become part of this company. Could you 216 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 2: come in and sell motorcycles in ATVs and water vehicles 217 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 2: and boats. I didn't believe in me. I did not 218 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 2: feel a sense of belonging, even in my family, as 219 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 2: they were different than me. It looked easier for them. 220 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 2: And I saw when Jimbo said, I believe in you, 221 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 2: you will be an asset to this company. You I 222 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 2: stepped into it and I tested the water. Is that possible? 223 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 2: Do I actually have a brain that can work? And 224 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 2: I started using adaptive equipment, things that helped me throughout 225 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 2: my day, and then that sense of belonging. I belong here. 226 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 2: These are my people. I'm now I feel a part 227 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 2: of and I feel at home here. I love going 228 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 2: to work. In a year, I was a million dollar salesman. 229 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 2: In three years from when I started, I was the 230 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 2: vice president and part owner of that company. How is 231 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 2: that possible? You know? I mean not that long ago. 232 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 2: I was laying in bed most nights, crying myself to sleep, 233 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 2: or really or calling out to the god of my misunderstanding, 234 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 2: please take me. I do not want to wake up again. 235 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 2: I cannot do this anymore. Because I was going at 236 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 2: it alone. I had no idea people and belonging connection, 237 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 2: what belief in each other and ourselves. I didn't know 238 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 2: the power of that stuff. So here's the interesting part. 239 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 2: I have not solved the problem, but I have put 240 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 2: a big band aid on it. I got to the top. 241 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 2: I'm making incredibly good money. I mean, I own a dealership. 242 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 2: I have every toy at my disposal. I'm still legally blind. 243 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 2: Don't forget. I was riding street bikes, wheeling in them. 244 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 2: I was ripping on dirt bikes. I was doing grass drags, 245 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 2: snowmobiling was out. I was a maniac still. I didn't 246 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 2: get rid of that. But I had arrived. You know 247 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 2: what I mean, My buddies all went to college. I'm 248 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 2: blowing them out of the water. I'm doing. I have 249 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 2: a house, I'm getting married. I mean, everything is just 250 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 2: rapidly come together. And then I needed more. I pulled 251 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 2: the structure down, started doing cocaine, and drinking, and it 252 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 2: started affecting my job and I couldn't seem to just 253 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 2: be happy, sober, and with everything I'm building, there was 254 00:16:55,400 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 2: still something missing, hurt the people, my business partner, and 255 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 2: I ended up in rehab. What do I do while 256 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 2: I come back? And I am a friendly serve attendant 257 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 2: at mobile? You know what that is? The guy that says, Hi, 258 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 2: I can't pump your gas, but I can check your oil. 259 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 2: I can check your tire pressure and clean your windshield. 260 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 2: I do that for six dollars an hour. And I 261 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 2: remember somebody pulling in and so what are you doing here? 262 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:29,199 Speaker 2: Aren't you the owner of that motorcycle dealership? That was 263 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 2: very humiliating, and I'm like, this is unbelievable. You know, 264 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 2: talk about falling. You know, it was outside of me. 265 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 2: It was look at my success, that's what you now 266 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 2: should judge me by, not for the character and the 267 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 2: values I live from. And because of that, I couldn't 268 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 2: get enough. I had to have more, a bigger house, 269 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 2: more toys, because God forbid, they didn't tell me how 270 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 2: amazing I was doing. Because I still was missing something. 271 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 2: So I started a company back in nineteen ninety seven. 272 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 2: A year after I left the motorcycle business Vision Dynamics, 273 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 2: and this company rose quick within five years. It's doing 274 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 2: two million dollars a year. I'm hiring all visually impaired 275 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 2: and people with disabilities. I am on the news in 276 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 2: the newspapers. Guess what's getting fed again. Charlie has arrived again. 277 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 2: It's not a spiritual solution. It's a look at me, everybody. 278 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 2: Deep down, I still believe I'm not enough. So now 279 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 2: I'm going to prove it, prove business again. And I'm married, 280 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,959 Speaker 2: I have kids. Now I am I got a bigger house, 281 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 2: I got more money, so things were just amazing. But 282 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 2: here it goes again. I'm trying to get validation from 283 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 2: my easiness. Might look at me. I'm a crazy rider, 284 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,360 Speaker 2: I can jump far, I can do natsy things. Or 285 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 2: if that guy isn't working, you'll like me because I'm successful. 286 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 2: I can get a nice house and a pretty wife, 287 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 2: and I have all these toys. All that outside stuff 288 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 2: gets old to people and they can't keep feeding me 289 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 2: the appreciation that I'm not a loser. So I'm sitting 290 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 2: up on the bridge of my boat, a beautiful sound 291 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 2: at the marina. The sun is setting and I have 292 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 2: a thought when I'm sitting up on top of my boat. 293 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 2: This sucks because I want a forty five foot boat. 294 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 2: I want the next dock over where the really happy 295 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 2: people are. And so I walk up and down that 296 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 2: dock and they're like three hundred and fifty thousand and up, 297 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 2: and I'm like, how am I gonna get that? I 298 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 2: remember I had been sober about six seven years, and 299 00:19:55,200 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 2: I drank that night because something was missing. Eventually I 300 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 2: found myself smoking crack cocaine. I look for ways to 301 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 2: solve the suffering inside of me that I don't know 302 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 2: I'm creating. I don't know that I have a role 303 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 2: in it. I think it's done to me. Why do 304 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 2: I feel I have the disease of more? I need more? 305 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 2: I'm a go getter, I'm doing all this great stuff. 306 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 2: How come I feel like I'm dying? And you know, 307 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 2: I pulled that structure down. That's a very expensive habit. 308 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 2: It ripped my life apart. They had to hire attorneys 309 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 2: to cut me out of the company because I kept 310 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,479 Speaker 2: stealing from it. I ended up living in like a 311 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 2: Super eight motel, alone in the dark, hiding in a 312 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 2: bathroom and shaking I can't believe I did it again. 313 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,880 Speaker 2: That year, I've been in and out of seven rehabs. 314 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 2: I had barely been to work, not a good father, 315 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 2: not a good husband, absent, and I swore on the Bible, 316 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 2: on the grave of my grandparents that I was done 317 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 2: and I would never do it again. 318 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: And I did. 319 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 2: What is wrong with me? I'm talking to myself saying, 320 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,239 Speaker 2: I don't understand. I want this more than anything. I 321 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 2: want to be clean and sober, and I want a 322 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 2: good life. But I left to my own devices, I 323 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 2: can't get there. Something is wrong. Please, please, something help me. 324 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 2: And then in that moment, my body stood up. I 325 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 2: did not. I didn't tell it to I stood up. 326 00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 2: I opened my arms wide and I fell to the ground. 327 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 2: It and the crying, and I felt a release. That's 328 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 2: all I know. I felt await. I felt this pressure, 329 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 2: this thing wrapped around my heart and squeezing me. Release 330 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 2: in that moment, and I stood back up and it 331 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 2: was a little shift, just enough to put one foot 332 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 2: in front of the other. And then finally, in that moment, 333 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 2: I'm at the jumping off point. Either it's going to 334 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 2: be the supreme sacrifice, and I'm going to end it 335 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 2: all or I please help me. See, I humbled myself, 336 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 2: I completely gave myself. I don't know, I can't explain it. 337 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 2: I believe the in my swollen heart that I had 338 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 2: those experiences near death, excruciating pain, and that I didn't 339 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:14,159 Speaker 2: die in a car accident on a train. Something was 340 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 2: saying and praying for me and saying, you're gonna see 341 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 2: it someday. We have a higher calling, a purpose. You 342 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 2: have a life of meaning, of service to others, And boy, 343 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 2: here it is. I mean, it blows my mind that 344 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 2: I didn't die in some of the things that accidents 345 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 2: and hospital visits. And you know the best part about this, Yeah, 346 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 2: it's gotten me where I am, but now I can 347 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,679 Speaker 2: help others so much better. It's built me to be 348 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 2: a guy that can coach and teach and help others 349 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 2: find that light inside of them where they can live 350 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 2: a life of meaning and purpose. Seventy percent of blind 351 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 2: people low vision blind people aren't employed, eighty five percent 352 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 2: of them don't make it out of college, and seventy 353 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 2: percent don't graduate high school. Something's very broken. Blindness is 354 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 2: not a barrier. So I created an academy to help 355 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 2: people find that power deep with them them and you know, 356 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 2: overcome the biases and all the adversity that's thrown at 357 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 2: them in life to live the life of their dreams. Because, man, 358 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 2: I'll tell you, I know what it's like to live 359 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 2: free of the bondage of self. You know, I don't 360 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 2: have a script, don't. I don't have a script for 361 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 2: anything I do. I don't have it all figured out, 362 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 2: but I show up fully to you know, and I 363 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,959 Speaker 2: ask for help always. We're all put here for a reason, 364 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 2: a purpose. I want to help people find that and 365 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 2: live from that and really enjoy life, the true essence 366 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 2: of being on this planet. I mean, it's the best 367 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 2: rock concert I've ever had. 368 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: Welcome back, this is a Live Again joining me for 369 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: a conversation about today's story. Are my other Alive Against 370 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 1: Story producers Lauren Vogelbaum, Nicholas Dakowski, and Brent Die and 371 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 1: I'm your host Dan Bush. A lot of times in 372 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: these shows we talk about the liminality, the crossing from 373 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: one threshold. The old self has died and the new 374 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: self is not yet born, and there's this liminal state 375 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: in between. And sometimes that is a five minute process, 376 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: you know, and sometimes it's a forty sometimes i'd say 377 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: eighty year process yeat. Charlie's is a story of somebody 378 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 1: who's like his insiting incident. Even though he was on 379 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: a train showing off and trying to make his you know, 380 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 1: to gather the approval of his friends. It didn't start 381 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: with him grabbing, you know, the twelve five hundred volts 382 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: of electricity went into the train. It started when he 383 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: first found out that he was legally blind and slowly 384 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: had this erosion of himself. He could no longer be 385 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: a jet pilot, which is all he wanted to do, 386 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: and it led to this massive undermining of his sense 387 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: of self and thereby him compensating for it in the 388 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: most crazy ways. But this liminal state for him lasted 389 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: for many, many years. And at first I thought, wow, 390 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: there's multiple near death stories here. There's a lot of 391 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,120 Speaker 1: stuff that happens. But then as I was editing the story, 392 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 1: I've realized, no, it's all. There's all there's one inciting incident, 393 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: and it's the moment when he no longer thought that 394 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 1: he was normal or you know, normal enough to participate 395 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: in society as a normal person. 396 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 3: It's the moment that he was or to achieve anything 397 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 3: that he wanted to achieve. 398 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: Right, And there's this slow expression across pivotal points in 399 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 1: his life that have high a lot of volume. There's 400 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: spikes on the wavelength of his life, like the electrocution, 401 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: like the time many years later when he found himself 402 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:45,199 Speaker 1: in a bathtub, you know, doing crack. But it's this 403 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: prolonged liminal state before he finally came into his own 404 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 1: And not to mention, I love talking to him because 405 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: he's Brent told me about Charlie. I don't know how 406 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: you know Charlie, but he's he's just such a character. 407 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: He's such a delightful guy to talk to, and he's 408 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: just I met Arlely on a project we did. It 409 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: was about a group of blind people, a travel agency 410 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: that works for blind people. So they go to Sedona 411 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: and they have tactile experiences like doing a hike and 412 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:19,640 Speaker 1: feeling the sandstone in the canyon, holding a baby fox, 413 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 1: you know, like very physical tactile experiences. And the interesting 414 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: thing about it is when you think of blindness again, 415 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: when you're not experiencing these things yourself, you have a 416 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,400 Speaker 1: very basic idea of what it is. You just think 417 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: blindness means your hands over your eyes, you can't see anything. 418 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: But people have. 419 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 4: Varying degrees of blindness. Some people are in the process 420 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 4: of losing their vision, and as some of them described it, 421 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 4: they said, I have ten percent left in this eye, 422 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 4: and I want to see Sedona before that vision is gone. 423 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 4: And Charlie was one of the people I met on 424 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 4: that trip. He's a fun person. Man, He's a lot 425 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 4: of fun. 426 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: You know. The scene on the train is some real spectacle. 427 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: He's literally standing on top of a moving train with 428 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: a beer and a cigarette. But it's not because he's fearless. 429 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: It's because he's he because he's wanting to be seen. 430 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 4: Because well, I will say that he even before he 431 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 4: even because he's fearless, because he's deeply terrified. Even before 432 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 4: he began losing his eyesight, he was attracted to fighter jets. 433 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 4: You know, he's he's always So it's maybe this, this 434 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 4: part of his personality gets ramped up by his blindness. 435 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 4: So I don't think it comes out of over compensates 436 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 4: with the thing that, yeah, he's maybe a daredevil as 437 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 4: a kid. Yeah, and it's just I'm gonna maybe I'm 438 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 4: going to do it even more now maybe it's like 439 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 4: the same thing as the blind person whose vision is vanishing. 440 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 4: He wants to do as much of it as he 441 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 4: can before maybe he's gone, but he is trying to 442 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 4: impress his friends as he does it. Like, the thing 443 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 4: that stood out for me about his story is when 444 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 4: he said they'd play dodgeball, and I didn't want to 445 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 4: play dodgeball. 446 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: That's it. 447 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 4: Everybody wants to play dodgeball, right, but he probably couldn't 448 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 4: see where the ball's coming from. 449 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 2: And that's. 450 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 3: You know, if you guys can believe this about me, 451 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 3: I was an awkward, non athletic. 452 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 2: Child in shock and disbelief. 453 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 4: Disbelieve so you deal with your trauma by becoming more awkward. 454 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 3: So you know, I really leaned in. I was like, 455 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 3: what's the least athletic thing I can do? Podcasting terrific, 456 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 3: let's go, but no, you know, so, like I absolutely 457 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 3: understand the social anxiety and the kind of like weird 458 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 3: shame that goes with getting picked last. It's something like 459 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 3: dodgeball and feeling like you just don't fit in for 460 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 3: whatever reason You're you're just not good enough for And 461 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 3: I mean, and kids are assholes. I mean, people are assholes. 462 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 3: But you know, but kids haven't found good ways to 463 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 3: cope with it yet or haven't even had a chance 464 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 3: to and so and kids can be really mean, and 465 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 3: so like like looking back, I'm like, oh, yeah, no, 466 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 3: I feel that I feel wanting to act out, wanting 467 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 3: to be the class clown because you at least got 468 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 3: attention and hopefully it was positive. Hopefully if you figure 469 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 3: out how to make someone laugh. 470 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 4: First, yeah, you either get tougher, you have funny. 471 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, and they're not laughing at you, they're laughing 472 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 3: with you, and that's so much better. 473 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: But yeah, Charlie is is another story where not only 474 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: did he reinvent himself, but he also found a new purpose, 475 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: which was to help others. And that's a recurring theme 476 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: in our show, is folks who have been through this 477 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 1: and even if they're a liminal period between thresholds of 478 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: themselves is you know, decades. 479 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think he wins on that one. I 480 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 3: think if we were going to give a medal for it, 481 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,719 Speaker 3: that would be the medal that Charlie would get. 482 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: That one. 483 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, longest liminal period. 484 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 1: But that he comes back and helps others and it 485 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: realizes that his purpose is to try to make sure 486 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: that you know anything he can do to help others 487 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: from overcompensating for the same not real problem. Yeah, that 488 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: you're not. 489 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 3: Enough, because he knows exactly how hard it is. This 490 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 3: one had me thinking a lot about addiction and patterns 491 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 3: of self destruction. Right when we have depression and anxiety 492 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 3: that's just running rampant. It's not untreated, because you sure 493 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 3: our treating it somehow, but in these ways that absolutely 494 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 3: make it worse. And the thing that really sucks is 495 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 3: that you have to choose. You have to choose to 496 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 3: do better. You have to really want it because it 497 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 3: is going to be hard. It is not fun to 498 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 3: examine those parts of yourself that are lashing out at you. 499 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: But no, that's some incredibly the hardest work you'll ever 500 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: do it. 501 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, like you can know that 502 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 3: being better is going to feel real good. I mean 503 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 3: hypothetically you can imagine that, but it is a bitch getting. 504 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 4: There, especially when you have an addiction that's not it's 505 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 4: just not a medical it's not only a physical or 506 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 4: mental thing to get over. It is a chemical that 507 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 4: is controlling you. 508 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, and right, it is really inspiring to 509 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 3: hear the story about someone who who made it out 510 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 3: of a lifelong spiral and is doing the work. 511 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 1: I was extremely lucky growing up. I had two or 512 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: three people on one an eighth grade teacher, had great parents, 513 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: had a lot of people who looked at me and said, 514 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: I believe in you. You can do this, like or 515 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: why are you acting out like this? You know that 516 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: there's a different way to express yourself and you know 517 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 1: you're capable of it. So and that kind of thing, 518 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: like I take it for granted sometimes, you know, I 519 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: don't even think about it. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's 520 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: and it's let I think it's helped me to be 521 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: a pretty well adjusted person. You know. I have a 522 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: certain arrangement with myself about the things I'm willing to try, 523 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 1: the things I'm willing to attempt in my life, and 524 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: I just so it's kind of difficult for me to 525 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: sometimes understand how how it would feel to not have that, 526 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: to not ever have anybody say I believe in you. 527 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: In fact, I have them say the opposite again and 528 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 1: again and again to you know, for someone to say 529 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: you're worthless, or to say you're shit, or to say 530 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 1: you're not capable or you know, just to step on 531 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: anytime you have a sense of self or a sense 532 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: of hope in yourself or belief in yourself. 533 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 4: To follow up on what Lauren was saying, that scene 534 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 4: of him in the hospital when he's going through all 535 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 4: this self hatred, all this pain because of what he 536 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 4: had done to himself by grabbing that electrical charge wire 537 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 4: and then realizing all these other people in the hospital 538 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 4: are experiencing intense pain as well, and he was able 539 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 4: to channel his own pain out and it brought him 540 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,839 Speaker 4: relief and it gave him the ability to recover. You know. 541 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 4: So I thought that was really interesting that he was 542 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 4: able to shift his attention away from himself and put 543 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 4: it towards the suffering of other people, and it made 544 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 4: him feel better. 545 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: You know, we've talked on the show before about how 546 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:56,800 Speaker 1: gratitude is the antidote to despair. Well, compassion is also 547 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 1: an antidote. Compassion is an antidote for pain and suffering. 548 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: You know, you can I there's been many times in 549 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: my life when I'm like, Okay, I feel so sorry 550 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:11,799 Speaker 1: for myself and I'm so been out of shape, and 551 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: I've had a gone through a breakup, or something you 552 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 1: know or have had a loss, and the one thing 553 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 1: that cures it and brings me back online is helping 554 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: somebody doing something for somebody else, finding some compassion. Instantly, Yeah, instantly. 555 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,359 Speaker 1: It's like that thing with the brain. It shuts off 556 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: the part of the brain that is, you know what, 557 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: I don't wired for this one activity or this one 558 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: thought pattern, and it turns on another one that makes 559 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: you forget all about that shit. I don't get it quickly. 560 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 4: I don't get the sense that when Charlie was growing 561 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 4: up anyone was telling him he could or couldn't do anything, 562 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 4: Like there wasn't a figure like a teacher or a parent, 563 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,399 Speaker 4: but it was just that diagnosis. Tell himself that, yeah, 564 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 4: that diagnosis of blindness. And probably when he was a 565 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,839 Speaker 4: kid in the nineteen sixties, nineteen seventy you're blind, You're 566 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,320 Speaker 4: useless to society, you're shut away as so many disabled 567 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 4: people's mentally and physically work. 568 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,720 Speaker 1: He says, yeah, seventy percent of people who are legally 569 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: blind are unimportant. Yeah, I think he said, yeah. 570 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 4: And for his you know, for the person who owned 571 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 4: that bike shop to come to him and say, you 572 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,319 Speaker 4: know a lot about bikes, you could really move these 573 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 4: you could sell. I believe in you because he told me, 574 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 4: Like when I met he told me he had these 575 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 4: successful businesses, and I was like, from running a bike shop. 576 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 4: But now that you're like, wow, you're selling these really 577 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 4: expensive vehicles, and then you're a partner in this man. 578 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,720 Speaker 4: You must have been making a ton of money showing 579 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 4: you can do it, you know, by just being by 580 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:48,879 Speaker 4: virtue of his personality, which is powerful, but but yeah, 581 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 4: being able to take that experience of somebody believing in him, 582 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,320 Speaker 4: showing that as a blind person he can run a business, 583 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,320 Speaker 4: he can sell things that he knows a lot about, 584 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,760 Speaker 4: and then being able to take that knowledge and apply 585 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 4: it to other people who have gone through the situation 586 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 4: he's gone through and provide a path for them. 587 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:20,839 Speaker 1: What a great life mission, you know. Next time I'm 588 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 1: Alive again, we meet Taylor Maxon, who set out on 589 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: the Cumberland River with friends only to be swept straight 590 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: into one of the most dangerous rapids in the Southeast. 591 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,320 Speaker 5: And I just was like suddenly fighting for my life 592 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 5: and I can taste blood in my mouth, and I realized. 593 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 2: That this is it. 594 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: Surviving Angel Faults was only the beginning of Taylor's journey. 595 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:48,240 Speaker 5: Safety is not inherently withdrawal. Nature put the exclamation point 596 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 5: on you don't have to be invisible. My life easily 597 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 5: could have ended, and I get to sort of be 598 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 5: the author of the next. However long I got alive again, 599 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 5: there it is. 600 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,440 Speaker 1: Our story producers are Dan Bush, Kate Sweeney, Brent Die, 601 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:11,320 Speaker 1: Nicholas Dakowski, and Lauren Vogelbaum. Music by Ben Lovett, additional 602 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 1: music by Alexander Rodriguez. Our executive producers are Matthew Frederick 603 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: and Trevor Young. Special thanks to Alexander Williams for additional 604 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,479 Speaker 1: production support. Our studio engineers are Rima l. K Ali 605 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: and Nomes Griffin. Our editors are Dan Bush, Gerhartslovichka, Brent Die, 606 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 1: and Alexander Rodriguez. Mixing by Ben Lovett and Alexander Rodriguez. 607 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Dan Bush. Special thanks to Charlie Collins 608 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 1: for sharing his story. Alive Again is a production of 609 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: I Art Radio and Psychopia Pictures. If you have a 610 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,279 Speaker 1: transformative near death experience to share, we'd love to hear 611 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,879 Speaker 1: your story. Please email us at Alive Again Project at 612 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 1: gmail dot com. That's a l I V. E A 613 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 1: G A I N P R O j E C 614 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: T at gmail dot com.