WEBVTT - SYSK Selects: Who killed JFK? 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:03.720 M. Hey everyone, it's me Josh, and for this week's 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:07.480 s Y s K Selects, I've chosen our classic episode, 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:12.200 Who Killed JFK. It's from November two thousand thirteen, and 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:18.960 it's a doozy. I hope you enjoy listen now. M 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:25.120 welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:34.160 dot com. Hey, I'm welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:39.839 There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and very appropriately for this one, 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:43.239 we have our buddy Matt, who's guest producing because he 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:45.360 knows how to do that kind of thing in addition 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:48.839 to his awesome show stuff they don't want you to know, 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:51.159 which he does with our other friend Ben. And uh 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:55.000 it's it covers conspiracy theories. And we are podcasting on 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:59.840 Who Killed JFK the day before the anniversary of that 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:06.360 Fateful Day anniversary, right fiftieth anniversary, November ninety three in Dallas. 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:09.440 And so you made a joke that Matt was just 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:13.240 going to be over there the whole time, going yeah, really, 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:17.120 uh huh, yeah, it wasn't a mob. Yeah, three tramps whatever. 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:20.319 I like the three trans one. It's it's ridiculous, but 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:22.800 it's my favorite one. Yeah, I got some good stuff 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:27.200 on that. Um. In two thousand three, josh An ABC 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:30.880 News poll came out ten years ago, seventy of Americans 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:33.720 believe the assassination of John F. Kennedy was part of 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:39.600 a broader plot. What percentage believe that and believed that 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:43.600 Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. Well, so it's the thing, 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:47.040 it's it will not die. No, it won't. It never will, 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:49.360 I don't think. Well, it's very much entrenched in popular 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:54.080 culture as well to like even it's become a parody 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:56.720 of itself as well. Yeah, and it's just the idea 0:01:56.800 --> 0:02:00.000 that there's this outstanding question that will never be put 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:04.520 to rest. Yeah, Like Lone Gunmen and Grassy Knoll, like 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:09.000 all these are almost like buzz terms. Now. Yeah, the 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:11.120 Lone Gunmen, they made an appearance in the X Files, 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:15.239 they were recurring characters. Trio of guys, The Misfits had 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:19.720 probably the best song about the jfk assassination out there. Um, 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:23.919 magic Bullet, But there's a band called Magic Bullets. There's 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:27.920 all sorts of stuff. Um, So let's get into this 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:33.120 because I think our colleague Jonathan Strickland of Tech Stuff 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:38.000 did a really good job of like handling what could 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:41.959 have easily been like a fifty page quagmire. And he 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:45.520 basically says, like, here's all the facts, and this is 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:50.120 why the what's on the surface is probably the likeliest 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:53.239 thing to happen. Yeah, and happened. We should see you 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.480 a little bit here. There are hundreds of books written 0:02:56.520 --> 0:03:02.240 about various conspiracies, uh, conspirat c theories on the JFK assassination, 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:06.640 and we are we don't have like eighteen episodes to 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:09.400 dedicate to this, so this will be a skimming of 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.440 the topic. UM. I don't want anyone to be like, oh, 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:14.040 Josh and Chuck are gonna get down to the bottom 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:17.760 of this, like people, that's some people's life's work, you know, 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.359 dedicated to this. Yeah. I mean, if we're anything, we're dilettants. 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:24.240 That's right. Every week we go from one subject to 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:27.760 the next. That is true. So I guess let's begin 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:30.720 at the beginning, just to get it all out on 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.480 the table. Okay, all right, okay, so Chuck Yes. On 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:41.800 November eighth, nine sixty three, UM, the Secret Service found 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:46.880 the proposed route for the president presidential Murdorcaide's visit to 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:50.760 Dallas and there was a reason the President was coming 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:55.440 to Dallas. It was a very good reason. And um, 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:58.040 this is why he was in Texas. Why he was 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:03.080 trying to basically sort of unite the Democratic Party. Um. 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:07.040 He was meeting with with his vice president and uh, 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:10.200 the governor of Texas, and there was some bickering going 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:12.120 on within the party and he basically wanted to He's 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:14.120 trying to get reelected, is what he was doing. Right, 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:16.080 That was a big part of it. But it is true. 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:22.359 Governor Connolly UM and Senator Richard Yarborough were publicly feuding. UM, 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:26.159 and they're both Democrats, So basically their great father was 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:29.480 going to come and make peace with them among them 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:33.480 publicly tour the state of Texas to help him self 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:36.160 get reelected, but also to show Texas like, hey, the 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:39.839 Texas Democrats are all family. Here. Family fights sometimes, but 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:41.839 we're still all family and we still have the same 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:44.440 grand vision. I know, I'm a Catholic from New England, 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:50.640 but we're all the same. Be nine Texan. Uh so okay, 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:52.920 where are we? They found out the route from love 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:59.520 Field to umdely Plaza. They publicize that in the newspapers, 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.640 so everyone knew about it. Because you know people, they 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:05.560 wanted people to come out and wave, yeah, like they did. 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:08.360 On November nine, the route was published in the papers 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:13.000 and lived on eight published one yes. And then on 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:16.839 November twenty two, nineteen sixty three, that fateful day, Air 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:19.480 Force one lands at love Field. The President gets in 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:22.839 his presidential limousine and they start making their way toward 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:26.240 Deeley Plaza, along with Governor Connelly and his wife and 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:28.880 of course Jackie and then a couple of secret service dudes. 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:31.240 That's in the one car. In a car behind them 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:35.920 is lb J Senator Yarborough and some other secret service guys. Right, 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:40.080 that's right. So they're apparently as they were headed toward 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:43.800 Deely Plausa, they got delayed because um Kennedy stopped and 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:47.320 kind of soaked up the people waving and cheering and 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:51.279 all that and gave gave some back to him. Yeah, 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:54.360 And so they were a little bit delayed, um getting 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:58.320 to Daly Plaza. But when they did, at about twelve thirty, 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:01.559 as they were arriving in the presidential motorcade, a shot 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:06.240 writing out and then there was two more shots at 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:11.480 least Yeah, and uh with the second shot, they think 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:15.040 the president he threw his hands up to his neck 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:20.440 and Jackie leaned over to kind of like say, what's 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:24.040 going on? And then all of a sudden, the back 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:29.240 right side of the President's head blew off. Yes, it 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:32.880 is very graphic if you see the slowed down enhanced 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:38.440 zapruder film on YouTube today, very affecting too. It's really sad. Yeah, 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:42.240 it is terribly sad. And this was not even a 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:44.760 part of our generation. Like this kind of stuff still 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:48.640 makes people like our parents breakdown sometimes, you know. So 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:52.200 that was thirty Within about anywhere between four and eight seconds, 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:55.800 at least three shots were fired, one missed, probably the 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:57.919 second and third one hit the president first in the 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:01.200 back of the neck, exited his throat, and the third 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:05.080 one blew his head off. Yeah, let's talk about the 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.160 that magic bullet since we should go ahead and just 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.480 clear that up. Uh it hit I guess that this 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.680 is a second bullet that passed through his throat. It 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:17.120 went on to hit Governor Connelly in the back, but 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:20.160 in his armpit. Yeah, below the right armpit. Um exited 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:23.440 below the right nipple. Um then hit his wrist that 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.280 was in his lap, and then continued through the wrist 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:28.840 through his left thigh. And that's why they call it 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:31.119 the magic bullet. And if you've seen Oliver Stone's movie, 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:35.400 they kind of, you know, make fun of it in court, 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:37.840 like that is one magic bullet. That's where I got 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:41.880 the name. Back into the left, Back into the left. 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:45.120 Remember the Seinfeld thing, Yeah, with the spit with the 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.680 Keith her Nandez. Yeah. Um, but and I remember my 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:51.480 brother in law, the marine, explaining to me years ago 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:55.680 that bullets tumble and can do some really crazy things, 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:59.560 like he's seen it happen on firing ranges and and puts. Also, 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.360 this is a very very powerful bullet. It was a 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:05.440 six point five millimeter bullet, which is basically like a 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:10.640 little um how it's her shell. Yeah, it's huge and 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:14.000 it travels very quickly. Yeah, and um, they have done 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:17.240 test that, even though it seems unlikely, that show that 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:20.360 it is possible that a bullet can change directions and 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:22.760 do kind of crazy things once it starts hitting bone 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:26.480 and other things. Yeah. So um, that was, like you said, 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:30.800 the second bullet most likely. Um, within just a few 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:36.199 seconds after the first shot, Kennedy is lying there, um motionless. 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:40.200 Jackie's like reaching back across the trunk of the car 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.000 trying to get help from a Secret Service agent who 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:45.840 I believe jumps into the car. Yeah. Well, actually they 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:51.040 think that she was picked up part of his brain tissue. Okay, 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.480 I heard that before too. Yeah, I looked into that today, 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:56.560 but I was watching the Repruter film and it looks 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:58.880 it looked to me like she was reaching back like help. 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:01.479 But I've heard that with war as well. Well. Apparently 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:05.839 she was quoted um by I think Connolly's wife and 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:09.640 one other person at the time of saying he's dead 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:14.640 and look, I have I have his brain in my hand. Um. 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:17.160 She I read that her testimony for the Warran Commission 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:19.320 and she says she didn't even remember any of that. 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:23.360 But whether or not that's true, it's awful. And she 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:25.280 was trying to hold his head together on the way 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:29.280 to the hospital. Yeah. So in the car behind them, uh, 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:33.440 a Secret Service agent pounces on LBJ and like throws 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:36.839 him onto the seat and lays on top of him. Um. 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:39.480 I think his name is Rufus young Blood, the CIA 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:42.199 or the Secret Service agent. The motor kid just takes 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:47.760 off to the hospital park Memorial Parkland Parkland Memorial and 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:52.640 um again, the the motor kid inner Dally plos Ave thirty. 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.959 By one pm, the President has been pronounced dead at 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:58.760 Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas. It was just a few 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:03.320 miles away. Um, so that was one pm. That was 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.120 one pm. Um. I guess we should talk about the 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:09.199 Grassy Knoll real quick because a lot of people, um 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:12.280 have said, you know, a shot have There were a 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:15.360 lot of misleading and conflicting accounts, which is where a 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:20.440 lot of the trouble started. Eyewitnesses not collaborating stories. Uh. 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:22.840 The acoustics at Dealey Plaza were funky because of all 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:25.800 the buildings and it's three side buildings and then one 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:29.120 side like Grassy Knoll. Basically yeah, so like where did 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:31.280 the shot come from? I thought it came from over 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:35.439 here from the sounds, Um, it was basically pretty tough 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:38.240 to pinpoint. And the Grassy Knoll there was a police 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:41.480 officer named Clyde hey Good that there are pictures of him, 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:44.240 you know, running towards the Grassy Knoll and a lot 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:46.840 of folks thought, hey, he's running like towards a suspect, 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:49.520 when in fact he was running towards another police officer 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:53.400 to you know, say, hey, what should we do? I 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:56.440 guess so the I guess. The way it's been explained 0:10:56.480 --> 0:11:00.560 away over the years is the the acoustics and the 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:02.800 fact that that cop was running towards the Grassy Knolls 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:04.640 made some people think that there was more than one 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.960 shooter and another shooter was on the Grassy knolls. The 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:10.160 official line is that that is not the case, though. 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:14.560 UM so one PM, the President's pronounced dead at two 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:22.679 thirty eight, UM Johnson, Jackie Kennedy, UH, Johnson's staff, pretty 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:25.680 much everybody was back on Air Force one and um 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:28.400 they called Bobby Kennedy to ask what to do and 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:31.200 to tell him what had happened, and Bobby Kennedy said, 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:33.600 you need to swear Johnson and before you guys leave 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:37.440 the ground. So they found a judge, brought her on board, 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:41.120 and she swore Johnson in as president, and then they 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:44.240 took off and flew back to Washington. Very famous photo, yeah, 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:46.079 with him being sworn in on board Air Force one, 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:49.600 right with Jackie's on NASA's or Jackie Kennedy's face. Just 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:53.760 like the fact that she was able to stand is 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:57.400 pretty amazing. Apparently they turned her in such a way 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:01.520 so that the blood stains were an apparent in a photograph. Man, 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:03.920 I don't know Ifill's air Force one yet. It was 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:07.760 that Look that wasn't okay? Um? All right? So where 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:12.559 are we? Uh? Four minutes after the shooting, Dallas police 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:18.400 uh looked at the Texas School Book Depository building and said, Hey, 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:20.360 that might have been where this came from. It's a 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:23.040 pretty prime location for a sniper. And there was an 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:26.920 eyewitness named Howard Brennan who saw a figure in the 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:30.559 window and gave a description which fit Lee Harvey Oswald. 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:32.520 So this this one dude actually saw him in the 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.360 window on the sixth floor. Pretty believable that you could 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:38.240 see someone from that range. The guy said, I knew 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:42.440 it was Oswald all along. So there was a cop 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:45.040 that was in the book depository within two minutes of 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.719 the shooting. Yeah, Marian Baker was kind of took the 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:49.240 initiative to go ahead and get in there. So we 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:52.880 went in there and he met up with the superintendent 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.600 of the building, a guy named Truly, and they started 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:57.760 um walking up the steps and at the second floor 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:01.880 they came upon Lee Harvey Oswald who was leaving. He 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:05.880 was leaving. Truly vouched for Oswald and Oswald was allowed 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:08.480 to leave. And the reason truly vouched for Oswald's because 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:11.280 just a couple of weeks before, about a month before, 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:14.959 Oswald had gotten a job at that book depository, so 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:18.400 he checked out as far as truly was concerned. The 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:21.400 officer who was with Truly said well, okay, and they 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:25.440 kept looking, and a few minutes after that lieutenant showed 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:27.240 up and took over the crime scene, and they started 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.400 scouring the building and on the sixth floor they found 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:35.160 the sniper's nest that's right with UM, three empty cartridges 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:41.000 and the gun UH telescopic rifle, UH telescopic site, and 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:45.680 a bolt action rifle. And it was pretty much a 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.400 no brainer at that point, or at least on the surface. 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:52.360 This is where it came from, right, So UM, after 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:56.600 Oswald left his uh left the book depository, he went 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:59.040 to um the place where he was running a room, 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.120 the house where he's running a room, and grabbed a pistol. 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:03.960 And as he's walking along and this is about the 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:07.400 same time that Kennedy's being pronounced dead, he's walking along 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:12.160 the street, he Um encountered a cop named J. D. Tippett, 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:16.120 and apparently Oswald just opened fire on this cop shot 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:18.720 him four times, killed him instantly. Yeah. Well, he was 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.840 investigating Oswald because the the ap B had already come 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:25.160 through with the description of Oswald, and he was like, well, 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:28.360 this guy fits that description. Let me talk to him. 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:30.320 And it didn't take long though, I don't think there 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:32.840 was much of a discussion before Oswald shot him and 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:36.800 killed him. And um, actually, when Oswald was finally apprehended, 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:39.280 it was for the murder of the cop. They they 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:41.040 didn't know he had anything to do with Kennedy at 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:45.080 the time. Yeah, yeah, at the time. Uh, he ducked 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:48.680 into a theater, the Texas Cedar, into the movie War 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:52.520 as Hell, and I think he snuck in and that's 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:54.760 why they called the cops because they're like, hey, someone 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:56.960 stuck in the theater. So if he would have had 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:58.880 a bought a ticket, he might not have ever been caught. 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:01.480 You never know. You know what's interesting about that, there's 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:06.040 all these parallels between the Lincoln assassination and the Kennedy assassination. Um, 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:08.360 some are untrue, some are just ridiculous. But one of 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.000 them was that John Wilkes Booth killed Lincoln in a 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:13.800 theater and went and hit out in a warehouse and 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:17.880 Lee Harvey Oswald killed Kennedy from a warehouse and went 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:19.520 and hit out in a theater where he was caught. 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:23.200 That's a pretty good one. I like that one. Um. 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:26.280 So he was apprehended in the theater and reportedly said, well, 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.680 it's all over now. But he also said something interesting 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.440 at one point to the media, I'm a patsy, which 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:37.560 has fueled speculation over the years that, uh, well, we'll 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.880 get into the different theories before we go any further. 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:45.640 Get this, the president of the United States of America 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:51.800 has just been shot in front of a crowd in Dallas. 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:58.000 That's right. That's huge. That's enormous. That's what's going on 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:00.560 right now. And there's a man hunt for this guy 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:04.440 who's just been caught for killing a cop. Yeah, so 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:06.720 people don't know that the president's killer has just been 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:09.320 caught as well. That's right. So this is a it's 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:12.600 a pretty emotional time. Uh, and let's talk about Oswald himself. 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:14.760 But first, um, let's do a message break and we'll 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:36.920 talk about Oswald when we come back. All right, So 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:39.560 here's a little bit about Lee Harvey Oswald. He was 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:44.360 a mixed up guy. Um, he was sort of an 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:46.560 outcast sort of didn't really fit in. He was born 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:50.520 in Um. His father died two months before he was born, 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:53.640 which I think, you know, probably has a lot to 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.800 do with emotional scarring later on and maybe being a 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:59.680 mixed up kid. Uh. He was in an orphanage for 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:02.040 a little while with an older brother and half brother, 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:04.160 but his mother was able to get him back out 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:08.919 of that orphanage uh and raised them by age five. 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:11.440 It was five when he got taken on the orphanage, 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:14.960 which was enough years to also do some damage psychologically. 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:18.480 I think that probably set the theme because I read 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:22.080 a little bit about what you know, contemporary reports of 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:26.800 him growing up concluded his problem was and that it was. 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.640 One social worker said that he believed his mother doesn't 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:33.000 give a damn about him so uh, and that somebody 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:35.439 else said that they've never met a kid more emotionally 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:39.119 starved than this guy. Uh. So I'm quite sure that 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:41.720 being left it in an orphanage, even being picked back 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:45.000 up after a while it was, probably did have a 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:47.720 pretty big effect on him on his development and how 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:49.600 he viewed his mother. Well. Yeah, and when you look 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:53.280 at what he did for the rest of his life, um, 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:56.040 it seems like he was always looking for a new 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.720 family quote unquote, um, whether it was the Marxist or 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:03.760 the Communists, or Cuba or Russia. Like it seems like 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.080 he never I mean, it's kind of a it's like 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:09.080 one o one. You know, he was looking to fit 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:13.320 in somehow somewhere with somebody. But at the same time, 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:17.000 it was always on the fringe of wherever he was at. Yeah, 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:19.199 you know what I mean, Like he's never happy with 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:21.639 where he was. He wanted to fit into whatever was 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.080 counter what he was doing or with the status quo 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:28.240 of where he was. Right. So at sixteen, he drops 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:30.520 out of school and tries to join the Marine Corps. 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:34.040 Um he was too young, so they said come back later. 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:38.040 He wrote the Socialist Party when he was Socialist Party 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:40.399 of America when he was seventeen, to say, hey, I'm 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.320 weigh into Marxism and like, can I come join her club? 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:45.119 I guess at the very least he sent me a 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:48.720 free button. Uh. And then at seventeen he reapplied to 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:50.600 the Marine Corps and he was old enough at that point, 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:53.840 and turns out he had quite an act for shooting guns. 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.160 He's a sharp shooter. During boot camp. But then during 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.640 the actual ranking testing only rated as a marksman, which 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:05.320 is still really good. Yeah, just below sharp shoot sharp 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.880 shooter the highest or is that dead eyes the highest level? 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:12.600 I think sharp shooters eyes. But at the same time, 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:15.639 even while he was a marine, a Marine marksman, he 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:20.200 um he taught himself Russian. He studied about the Soviet 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:23.480 Union and communism. And this is during the Cold War. 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.600 This is like during the most paranoid finger pointing part 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.760 of the Cold War. But Oswald's in the Marines, like 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:32.040 teaching himself Russian and everything. To you what I mean, 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:34.840 like a confused guy. Yeah, but even still like it's 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:38.080 just it's so strange to me learning about his experience 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:44.520 that he was relatively left alone while expressing pretty publicly 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:49.720 this interest in the Soviet Union and communism during the 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:52.040 peak of the Cold War. It's just I thought, if 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:54.560 you had, if you even wore the color red, people 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:58.560 like communists get him. But apparently you could just hide 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:02.400 in plain sight or admire the Soviet Union plain sighte Well, 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:04.800 he eventually would find himself on a watch list because 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:09.000 he went to Russia. Um Under um he obtained a 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:13.160 passport falsely with an application to a college in Switzerland 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:17.840 and applied, got to Moscow, applied for citizenship there and 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:20.800 they were like yet, and so he he goes, oh, yeah, 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:22.479 if you know what I mean, and I'm gonna kill myself. 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:25.920 He basically did the same day he was rejected by Russia. 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:30.240 He split his wrist and the warmhearted Soviets were like, well, okay, 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:33.720 you can stay, young man. I thought that was interesting. Yeah, 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:40.480 that's what allowed him to stay. Yeah, yeah, that's just weird. 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:43.159 Yeah it is, so he said, I don't want to 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:46.480 be Um. Well, he he did not officially announce his 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:50.960 citizenship in America, although he expressed interest in doing so. Yeah, 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:53.360 he kind of mouthed off about it, but never actually 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.000 did it. That's right. Uh. In Russia, he fell in 0:20:56.000 --> 0:21:00.720 love with a lady named Marina Prusakova and and you're 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:06.879 not going to try her middle name nicola Venna nice Nikolaevna. Yeah, 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:09.600 I think that's right. And um, basically he was like, 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:11.000 you know, we should probably go back to the United 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:15.280 States because it turns out Russia sucks. These breadlines. I 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:18.120 weren't expecting them to be so long. Yeah, it said 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:20.199 he'd become disenchanted. I think that's a nice way of 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:23.720 saying that Russia sucked. Right, So he says, Hey, I 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:26.800 know a place where you're gonna love. It's called Texas. 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:31.280 Let's move back there. Uh, just forget the fact that 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:34.160 you don't speak any English, you don't know anybody in Texas. 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:37.400 Everybody back in America thinks I'm a weirdo and I'm 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:40.800 your husband. Uh, just let's go and move to Texas. 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:44.080 And she's like, she said, what did you say in Russian? 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:47.199 He's like, nothing in Russian. And so they moved to 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:52.399 Texas and uh, she apparently very quickly became just she 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:55.359 felt isolated, she didn't have any friends, and a woman 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:58.320 named Ruth Payne um felt bad for and took her 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:01.159 under her wing and they became kind of friends. And 0:22:01.240 --> 0:22:03.800 Ruth Paine will come into play a little later on. Yeah, 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:07.120 and this is where he was finally sort of um 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:10.000 on the radar of the FBI. Yeah, when he moved back. Yeah, 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:12.160 you can't move to Russia and then come back. And 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:14.879 they just you know, don't even bother talking to you know, 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:17.800 but they did talk to him and they said, okay, 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:21.919 well listen, if if the USSR gets in touch with 0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:23.960 you and want you to do sp N just let 0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:26.080 us know, and he went, sure, okay, and they're like, 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:28.520 all right, we'll have a great day. Thanks for the coffee, ma'am. 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:31.879 She's like, what did you say in Russian? That's pretty remarkable. 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:37.360 So on April tenth nine, Um, another interesting thing happened. 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:40.840 A few days after losing his job. He tried to 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:44.920 assassinate Major General Edwin Walker. This guy was a piece 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:48.800 of work himself. Yeah, he was a hardcore right wing conservative, 0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:53.880 possibly gay man. Oh I hadn't heard that. Yeah. Later 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:56.159 in life, in the seventies, he was arrested twice for 0:22:56.640 --> 0:22:59.879 fondling men in public. I wonder if he was the 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:07.200 model for um, the dad in American Beauty. Oh, maybe 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:10.240 I could see that then. Yeah, I mean he never married, 0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:11.960 and they I don't think they ever came right out 0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:13.800 and said he was gay. But he was arrested twice 0:23:13.800 --> 0:23:17.480 for fondling police officers. Well, Alan Ball, if if that's 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:19.920 the case, email and let us know, okay, Yeah, which 0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:22.119 is neither here nor there, but it's interesting. No, But 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:25.600 he he was, like you said, extreme, a right wing 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:29.760 extremist in the very definition of the word. He was very, um, 0:23:29.800 --> 0:23:34.880