1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: M. Hey everyone, it's me Josh, and for this week's 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: s Y s K Selects, I've chosen our classic episode, 3 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: Who Killed JFK. It's from November two thousand thirteen, and 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: it's a doozy. I hope you enjoy listen now. M 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works 6 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:34,160 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, I'm welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 7 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and very appropriately for this one, 8 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 1: we have our buddy Matt, who's guest producing because he 9 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: knows how to do that kind of thing in addition 10 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: to his awesome show stuff they don't want you to know, 11 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: which he does with our other friend Ben. And uh 12 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: it's it covers conspiracy theories. And we are podcasting on 13 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: Who Killed JFK the day before the anniversary of that 14 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: Fateful Day anniversary, right fiftieth anniversary, November ninety three in Dallas. 15 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: And so you made a joke that Matt was just 16 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: going to be over there the whole time, going yeah, really, 17 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: uh huh, yeah, it wasn't a mob. Yeah, three tramps whatever. 18 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 1: I like the three trans one. It's it's ridiculous, but 19 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: it's my favorite one. Yeah, I got some good stuff 20 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: on that. Um. In two thousand three, josh An ABC 21 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: News poll came out ten years ago, seventy of Americans 22 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: believe the assassination of John F. Kennedy was part of 23 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: a broader plot. What percentage believe that and believed that 24 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. Well, so it's the thing, 25 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: it's it will not die. No, it won't. It never will, 26 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: I don't think. Well, it's very much entrenched in popular 27 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: culture as well to like even it's become a parody 28 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: of itself as well. Yeah, and it's just the idea 29 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: that there's this outstanding question that will never be put 30 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: to rest. Yeah, Like Lone Gunmen and Grassy Knoll, like 31 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: all these are almost like buzz terms. Now. Yeah, the 32 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: Lone Gunmen, they made an appearance in the X Files, 33 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:15,239 Speaker 1: they were recurring characters. Trio of guys, The Misfits had 34 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: probably the best song about the jfk assassination out there. Um, 35 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: magic Bullet, But there's a band called Magic Bullets. There's 36 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff. Um, So let's get into this 37 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: because I think our colleague Jonathan Strickland of Tech Stuff 38 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: did a really good job of like handling what could 39 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,959 Speaker 1: have easily been like a fifty page quagmire. And he 40 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: basically says, like, here's all the facts, and this is 41 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: why the what's on the surface is probably the likeliest 42 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,239 Speaker 1: thing to happen. Yeah, and happened. We should see you 43 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: a little bit here. There are hundreds of books written 44 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: about various conspiracies, uh, conspirat c theories on the JFK assassination, 45 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: and we are we don't have like eighteen episodes to 46 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: dedicate to this, so this will be a skimming of 47 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: the topic. UM. I don't want anyone to be like, oh, 48 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: Josh and Chuck are gonna get down to the bottom 49 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: of this, like people, that's some people's life's work, you know, 50 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: dedicated to this. Yeah. I mean, if we're anything, we're dilettants. 51 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: That's right. Every week we go from one subject to 52 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: the next. That is true. So I guess let's begin 53 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: at the beginning, just to get it all out on 54 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: the table. Okay, all right, okay, so Chuck Yes. On 55 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: November eighth, nine sixty three, UM, the Secret Service found 56 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: the proposed route for the president presidential Murdorcaide's visit to 57 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: Dallas and there was a reason the President was coming 58 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: to Dallas. It was a very good reason. And um, 59 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: this is why he was in Texas. Why he was 60 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: trying to basically sort of unite the Democratic Party. Um. 61 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: He was meeting with with his vice president and uh, 62 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: the governor of Texas, and there was some bickering going 63 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: on within the party and he basically wanted to He's 64 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: trying to get reelected, is what he was doing. Right, 65 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: That was a big part of it. But it is true. 66 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 1: Governor Connolly UM and Senator Richard Yarborough were publicly feuding. UM, 67 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 1: and they're both Democrats, So basically their great father was 68 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: going to come and make peace with them among them 69 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: publicly tour the state of Texas to help him self 70 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 1: get reelected, but also to show Texas like, hey, the 71 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: Texas Democrats are all family. Here. Family fights sometimes, but 72 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: we're still all family and we still have the same 73 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: grand vision. I know, I'm a Catholic from New England, 74 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: but we're all the same. Be nine Texan. Uh so okay, 75 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: where are we? They found out the route from love 76 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: Field to umdely Plaza. They publicize that in the newspapers, 77 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: so everyone knew about it. Because you know people, they 78 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: wanted people to come out and wave, yeah, like they did. 79 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: On November nine, the route was published in the papers 80 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: and lived on eight published one yes. And then on 81 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: November twenty two, nineteen sixty three, that fateful day, Air 82 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 1: Force one lands at love Field. The President gets in 83 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: his presidential limousine and they start making their way toward 84 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: Deeley Plaza, along with Governor Connelly and his wife and 85 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: of course Jackie and then a couple of secret service dudes. 86 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: That's in the one car. In a car behind them 87 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: is lb J Senator Yarborough and some other secret service guys. Right, 88 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: that's right. So they're apparently as they were headed toward 89 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: Deely Plausa, they got delayed because um Kennedy stopped and 90 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: kind of soaked up the people waving and cheering and 91 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: all that and gave gave some back to him. Yeah, 92 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: And so they were a little bit delayed, um getting 93 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: to Daly Plaza. But when they did, at about twelve thirty, 94 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,559 Speaker 1: as they were arriving in the presidential motorcade, a shot 95 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: writing out and then there was two more shots at 96 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: least Yeah, and uh with the second shot, they think 97 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: the president he threw his hands up to his neck 98 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: and Jackie leaned over to kind of like say, what's 99 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: going on? And then all of a sudden, the back 100 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: right side of the President's head blew off. Yes, it 101 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: is very graphic if you see the slowed down enhanced 102 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: zapruder film on YouTube today, very affecting too. It's really sad. Yeah, 103 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: it is terribly sad. And this was not even a 104 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: part of our generation. Like this kind of stuff still 105 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: makes people like our parents breakdown sometimes, you know. So 106 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: that was thirty Within about anywhere between four and eight seconds, 107 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: at least three shots were fired, one missed, probably the 108 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 1: second and third one hit the president first in the 109 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: back of the neck, exited his throat, and the third 110 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: one blew his head off. Yeah, let's talk about the 111 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: that magic bullet since we should go ahead and just 112 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: clear that up. Uh it hit I guess that this 113 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: is a second bullet that passed through his throat. It 114 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: went on to hit Governor Connelly in the back, but 115 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: in his armpit. Yeah, below the right armpit. Um exited 116 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: below the right nipple. Um then hit his wrist that 117 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: was in his lap, and then continued through the wrist 118 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: through his left thigh. And that's why they call it 119 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,119 Speaker 1: the magic bullet. And if you've seen Oliver Stone's movie, 120 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: they kind of, you know, make fun of it in court, 121 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: like that is one magic bullet. That's where I got 122 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: the name. Back into the left, Back into the left. 123 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: Remember the Seinfeld thing, Yeah, with the spit with the 124 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: Keith her Nandez. Yeah. Um, but and I remember my 125 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: brother in law, the marine, explaining to me years ago 126 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: that bullets tumble and can do some really crazy things, 127 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: like he's seen it happen on firing ranges and and puts. Also, 128 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: this is a very very powerful bullet. It was a 129 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: six point five millimeter bullet, which is basically like a 130 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: little um how it's her shell. Yeah, it's huge and 131 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: it travels very quickly. Yeah, and um, they have done 132 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: test that, even though it seems unlikely, that show that 133 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: it is possible that a bullet can change directions and 134 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: do kind of crazy things once it starts hitting bone 135 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: and other things. Yeah. So um, that was, like you said, 136 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: the second bullet most likely. Um, within just a few 137 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 1: seconds after the first shot, Kennedy is lying there, um motionless. 138 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: Jackie's like reaching back across the trunk of the car 139 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: trying to get help from a Secret Service agent who 140 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 1: I believe jumps into the car. Yeah. Well, actually they 141 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: think that she was picked up part of his brain tissue. Okay, 142 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: I heard that before too. Yeah, I looked into that today, 143 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: but I was watching the Repruter film and it looks 144 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: it looked to me like she was reaching back like help. 145 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,479 Speaker 1: But I've heard that with war as well. Well. Apparently 146 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,839 Speaker 1: she was quoted um by I think Connolly's wife and 147 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: one other person at the time of saying he's dead 148 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: and look, I have I have his brain in my hand. Um. 149 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: She I read that her testimony for the Warran Commission 150 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: and she says she didn't even remember any of that. 151 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: But whether or not that's true, it's awful. And she 152 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: was trying to hold his head together on the way 153 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: to the hospital. Yeah. So in the car behind them, uh, 154 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: a Secret Service agent pounces on LBJ and like throws 155 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 1: him onto the seat and lays on top of him. Um. 156 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: I think his name is Rufus young Blood, the CIA 157 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 1: or the Secret Service agent. The motor kid just takes 158 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: off to the hospital park Memorial Parkland Parkland Memorial and 159 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: um again, the the motor kid inner Dally plos Ave thirty. 160 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,959 Speaker 1: By one pm, the President has been pronounced dead at 161 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas. It was just a few 162 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: miles away. Um, so that was one pm. That was 163 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: one pm. Um. I guess we should talk about the 164 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 1: Grassy Knoll real quick because a lot of people, um 165 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: have said, you know, a shot have There were a 166 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: lot of misleading and conflicting accounts, which is where a 167 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: lot of the trouble started. Eyewitnesses not collaborating stories. Uh. 168 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: The acoustics at Dealey Plaza were funky because of all 169 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: the buildings and it's three side buildings and then one 170 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: side like Grassy Knoll. Basically yeah, so like where did 171 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: the shot come from? I thought it came from over 172 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 1: here from the sounds, Um, it was basically pretty tough 173 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: to pinpoint. And the Grassy Knoll there was a police 174 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: officer named Clyde hey Good that there are pictures of him, 175 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: you know, running towards the Grassy Knoll and a lot 176 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: of folks thought, hey, he's running like towards a suspect, 177 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: when in fact he was running towards another police officer 178 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: to you know, say, hey, what should we do? I 179 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: guess so the I guess. The way it's been explained 180 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: away over the years is the the acoustics and the 181 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: fact that that cop was running towards the Grassy Knolls 182 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: made some people think that there was more than one 183 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: shooter and another shooter was on the Grassy knolls. The 184 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: official line is that that is not the case, though. 185 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: UM so one PM, the President's pronounced dead at two 186 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 1: thirty eight, UM Johnson, Jackie Kennedy, UH, Johnson's staff, pretty 187 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: much everybody was back on Air Force one and um 188 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: they called Bobby Kennedy to ask what to do and 189 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: to tell him what had happened, and Bobby Kennedy said, 190 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: you need to swear Johnson and before you guys leave 191 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: the ground. So they found a judge, brought her on board, 192 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: and she swore Johnson in as president, and then they 193 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: took off and flew back to Washington. Very famous photo, yeah, 194 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: with him being sworn in on board Air Force one, 195 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: right with Jackie's on NASA's or Jackie Kennedy's face. Just 196 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: like the fact that she was able to stand is 197 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: pretty amazing. Apparently they turned her in such a way 198 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: so that the blood stains were an apparent in a photograph. Man, 199 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: I don't know Ifill's air Force one yet. It was 200 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: that Look that wasn't okay? Um? All right? So where 201 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 1: are we? Uh? Four minutes after the shooting, Dallas police 202 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: uh looked at the Texas School Book Depository building and said, Hey, 203 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: that might have been where this came from. It's a 204 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: pretty prime location for a sniper. And there was an 205 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: eyewitness named Howard Brennan who saw a figure in the 206 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 1: window and gave a description which fit Lee Harvey Oswald. 207 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: So this this one dude actually saw him in the 208 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: window on the sixth floor. Pretty believable that you could 209 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: see someone from that range. The guy said, I knew 210 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: it was Oswald all along. So there was a cop 211 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: that was in the book depository within two minutes of 212 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,719 Speaker 1: the shooting. Yeah, Marian Baker was kind of took the 213 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: initiative to go ahead and get in there. So we 214 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: went in there and he met up with the superintendent 215 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: of the building, a guy named Truly, and they started 216 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: um walking up the steps and at the second floor 217 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: they came upon Lee Harvey Oswald who was leaving. He 218 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: was leaving. Truly vouched for Oswald and Oswald was allowed 219 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: to leave. And the reason truly vouched for Oswald's because 220 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: just a couple of weeks before, about a month before, 221 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,959 Speaker 1: Oswald had gotten a job at that book depository, so 222 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: he checked out as far as truly was concerned. The 223 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: officer who was with Truly said well, okay, and they 224 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: kept looking, and a few minutes after that lieutenant showed 225 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: up and took over the crime scene, and they started 226 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: scouring the building and on the sixth floor they found 227 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: the sniper's nest that's right with UM, three empty cartridges 228 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: and the gun UH telescopic rifle, UH telescopic site, and 229 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: a bolt action rifle. And it was pretty much a 230 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: no brainer at that point, or at least on the surface. 231 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: This is where it came from, right, So UM, after 232 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: Oswald left his uh left the book depository, he went 233 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: to um the place where he was running a room, 234 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: the house where he's running a room, and grabbed a pistol. 235 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: And as he's walking along and this is about the 236 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: same time that Kennedy's being pronounced dead, he's walking along 237 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: the street, he Um encountered a cop named J. D. Tippett, 238 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: and apparently Oswald just opened fire on this cop shot 239 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: him four times, killed him instantly. Yeah. Well, he was 240 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: investigating Oswald because the the ap B had already come 241 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: through with the description of Oswald, and he was like, well, 242 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: this guy fits that description. Let me talk to him. 243 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: And it didn't take long though, I don't think there 244 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: was much of a discussion before Oswald shot him and 245 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: killed him. And um, actually, when Oswald was finally apprehended, 246 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: it was for the murder of the cop. They they 247 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: didn't know he had anything to do with Kennedy at 248 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, yeah, at the time. Uh, he ducked 249 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: into a theater, the Texas Cedar, into the movie War 250 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: as Hell, and I think he snuck in and that's 251 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: why they called the cops because they're like, hey, someone 252 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: stuck in the theater. So if he would have had 253 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: a bought a ticket, he might not have ever been caught. 254 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: You never know. You know what's interesting about that, there's 255 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: all these parallels between the Lincoln assassination and the Kennedy assassination. Um, 256 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: some are untrue, some are just ridiculous. But one of 257 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: them was that John Wilkes Booth killed Lincoln in a 258 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: theater and went and hit out in a warehouse and 259 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: Lee Harvey Oswald killed Kennedy from a warehouse and went 260 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: and hit out in a theater where he was caught. 261 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: That's a pretty good one. I like that one. Um. 262 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: So he was apprehended in the theater and reportedly said, well, 263 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: it's all over now. But he also said something interesting 264 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: at one point to the media, I'm a patsy, which 265 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: has fueled speculation over the years that, uh, well, we'll 266 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: get into the different theories before we go any further. 267 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: Get this, the president of the United States of America 268 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: has just been shot in front of a crowd in Dallas. 269 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: That's right. That's huge. That's enormous. That's what's going on 270 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: right now. And there's a man hunt for this guy 271 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: who's just been caught for killing a cop. Yeah, so 272 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: people don't know that the president's killer has just been 273 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: caught as well. That's right. So this is a it's 274 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: a pretty emotional time. Uh, and let's talk about Oswald himself. 275 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: But first, um, let's do a message break and we'll 276 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: talk about Oswald when we come back. All right, So 277 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: here's a little bit about Lee Harvey Oswald. He was 278 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: a mixed up guy. Um, he was sort of an 279 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: outcast sort of didn't really fit in. He was born 280 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: in Um. His father died two months before he was born, 281 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: which I think, you know, probably has a lot to 282 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: do with emotional scarring later on and maybe being a 283 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: mixed up kid. Uh. He was in an orphanage for 284 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: a little while with an older brother and half brother, 285 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 1: but his mother was able to get him back out 286 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: of that orphanage uh and raised them by age five. 287 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 1: It was five when he got taken on the orphanage, 288 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: which was enough years to also do some damage psychologically. 289 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 1: I think that probably set the theme because I read 290 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: a little bit about what you know, contemporary reports of 291 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: him growing up concluded his problem was and that it was. 292 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 1: One social worker said that he believed his mother doesn't 293 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: give a damn about him so uh, and that somebody 294 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 1: else said that they've never met a kid more emotionally 295 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: starved than this guy. Uh. So I'm quite sure that 296 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: being left it in an orphanage, even being picked back 297 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: up after a while it was, probably did have a 298 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: pretty big effect on him on his development and how 299 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: he viewed his mother. Well. Yeah, and when you look 300 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: at what he did for the rest of his life, um, 301 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: it seems like he was always looking for a new 302 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: family quote unquote, um, whether it was the Marxist or 303 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: the Communists, or Cuba or Russia. Like it seems like 304 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: he never I mean, it's kind of a it's like 305 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: one o one. You know, he was looking to fit 306 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: in somehow somewhere with somebody. But at the same time, 307 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: it was always on the fringe of wherever he was at. Yeah, 308 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like he's never happy with 309 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: where he was. He wanted to fit into whatever was 310 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: counter what he was doing or with the status quo 311 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: of where he was. Right. So at sixteen, he drops 312 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: out of school and tries to join the Marine Corps. 313 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: Um he was too young, so they said come back later. 314 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: He wrote the Socialist Party when he was Socialist Party 315 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: of America when he was seventeen, to say, hey, I'm 316 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: weigh into Marxism and like, can I come join her club? 317 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: I guess at the very least he sent me a 318 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: free button. Uh. And then at seventeen he reapplied to 319 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: the Marine Corps and he was old enough at that point, 320 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: and turns out he had quite an act for shooting guns. 321 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: He's a sharp shooter. During boot camp. But then during 322 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: the actual ranking testing only rated as a marksman, which 323 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: is still really good. Yeah, just below sharp shoot sharp 324 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 1: shooter the highest or is that dead eyes the highest level? 325 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: I think sharp shooters eyes. But at the same time, 326 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 1: even while he was a marine, a Marine marksman, he 327 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 1: um he taught himself Russian. He studied about the Soviet 328 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: Union and communism. And this is during the Cold War. 329 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: This is like during the most paranoid finger pointing part 330 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: of the Cold War. But Oswald's in the Marines, like 331 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: teaching himself Russian and everything. To you what I mean, 332 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: like a confused guy. Yeah, but even still like it's 333 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: just it's so strange to me learning about his experience 334 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: that he was relatively left alone while expressing pretty publicly 335 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: this interest in the Soviet Union and communism during the 336 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: peak of the Cold War. It's just I thought, if 337 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: you had, if you even wore the color red, people 338 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: like communists get him. But apparently you could just hide 339 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 1: in plain sight or admire the Soviet Union plain sighte Well, 340 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: he eventually would find himself on a watch list because 341 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: he went to Russia. Um Under um he obtained a 342 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: passport falsely with an application to a college in Switzerland 343 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: and applied, got to Moscow, applied for citizenship there and 344 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: they were like yet, and so he he goes, oh, yeah, 345 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:22,479 Speaker 1: if you know what I mean, and I'm gonna kill myself. 346 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 1: He basically did the same day he was rejected by Russia. 347 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: He split his wrist and the warmhearted Soviets were like, well, okay, 348 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: you can stay, young man. I thought that was interesting. Yeah, 349 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: that's what allowed him to stay. Yeah, yeah, that's just weird. 350 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,159 Speaker 1: Yeah it is, so he said, I don't want to 351 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: be Um. Well, he he did not officially announce his 352 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: citizenship in America, although he expressed interest in doing so. Yeah, 353 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,360 Speaker 1: he kind of mouthed off about it, but never actually 354 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: did it. That's right. Uh. In Russia, he fell in 355 00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: love with a lady named Marina Prusakova and and you're 356 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: not going to try her middle name nicola Venna nice Nikolaevna. Yeah, 357 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: I think that's right. And um, basically he was like, 358 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: you know, we should probably go back to the United 359 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: States because it turns out Russia sucks. These breadlines. I 360 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 1: weren't expecting them to be so long. Yeah, it said 361 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 1: he'd become disenchanted. I think that's a nice way of 362 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: saying that Russia sucked. Right, So he says, Hey, I 363 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: know a place where you're gonna love. It's called Texas. 364 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: Let's move back there. Uh, just forget the fact that 365 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 1: you don't speak any English, you don't know anybody in Texas. 366 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 1: Everybody back in America thinks I'm a weirdo and I'm 367 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: your husband. Uh, just let's go and move to Texas. 368 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: And she's like, she said, what did you say in Russian? 369 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,199 Speaker 1: He's like, nothing in Russian. And so they moved to 370 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: Texas and uh, she apparently very quickly became just she 371 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 1: felt isolated, she didn't have any friends, and a woman 372 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: named Ruth Payne um felt bad for and took her 373 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 1: under her wing and they became kind of friends. And 374 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: Ruth Paine will come into play a little later on. Yeah, 375 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 1: and this is where he was finally sort of um 376 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: on the radar of the FBI. Yeah, when he moved back. Yeah, 377 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 1: you can't move to Russia and then come back. And 378 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: they just you know, don't even bother talking to you know, 379 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: but they did talk to him and they said, okay, 380 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 1: well listen, if if the USSR gets in touch with 381 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: you and want you to do sp N just let 382 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: us know, and he went, sure, okay, and they're like, 383 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: all right, we'll have a great day. Thanks for the coffee, ma'am. 384 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 1: She's like, what did you say in Russian? That's pretty remarkable. 385 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 1: So on April tenth nine, Um, another interesting thing happened. 386 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: A few days after losing his job. He tried to 387 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: assassinate Major General Edwin Walker. This guy was a piece 388 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: of work himself. Yeah, he was a hardcore right wing conservative, 389 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,880 Speaker 1: possibly gay man. Oh I hadn't heard that. Yeah. Later 390 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 1: in life, in the seventies, he was arrested twice for 391 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: fondling men in public. I wonder if he was the 392 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: model for um, the dad in American Beauty. Oh, maybe 393 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: I could see that then. Yeah, I mean he never married, 394 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: and they I don't think they ever came right out 395 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: and said he was gay. But he was arrested twice 396 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: for fondling police officers. Well, Alan Ball, if if that's 397 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: the case, email and let us know, okay, Yeah, which 398 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: is neither here nor there, but it's interesting. No, But 399 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: he he was, like you said, extreme, a right wing 400 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: extremist in the very definition of the word. He was very, um, 401 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 1: well respected, decorated military leader, like he was commanding all 402 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,400 Speaker 1: of the troops in West Germany at one point when 403 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: he was no he hated the Kennedy's. He called Harry 404 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 1: Truman and Eleanor Roosevelt pink, which means that they were 405 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: communists sympathizers, which is a big deal. He was temporarily 406 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: relieved of his post while he was investigated for that, 407 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: and he said, you know what, I'm not even gonna 408 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 1: I'm not going back because the US has given up 409 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,400 Speaker 1: his sovereignty to the United Nations and I can't fight 410 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: for it any longer. And this guy was so convinced 411 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: by his own convictions that he refused a military pension 412 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 1: for years afterwards because he didn't want to have anything 413 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 1: to do with him. Well, apparently he refused it, but 414 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 1: then kind of quietly tried to get it. Well, then 415 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: they gave it to him. Yeah um, But then he 416 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 1: was celebrated as a great soldier later on in life 417 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: and after his death. Oh yeah. So another example though 418 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: of Oswald is sort of a confused guy, like he 419 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: tries to assassinate this right wing conservative general. He also 420 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 1: was a marine. He also killed Kennedy. He was just 421 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,360 Speaker 1: sort of like it didn't seem like he knew what 422 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 1: he believed. Well, he believed that Um was the general's name. 423 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: Walker was like Hitler in the making. Yeah, basically that 424 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: he was an extremist who needed to be taken up. 425 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: But he missed. Yeah, from about a hundred feet away. 426 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: He shot into his dining room from the street where 427 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 1: he was sitting at a desk and hit the window 428 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: pane and uh it, you know, made the bullet go 429 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: a different directions, So he missed. So Lee Harvey Oswald's 430 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 1: basically doing anything he can to insinuate himself in international 431 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: global politics. Yeah, but he got away with it like 432 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: they never It was a cold case until they finally 433 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: caught him and put the You know, I think his 434 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: wife was the one who's who fingered him later on, Yeah, 435 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 1: because he comes home and says, Hey, we're moving to 436 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: New Orleans and she's like, what did you just say? 437 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: And so they moved to New Orleans and Um while 438 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: they're there, she's like, I've had enough, you're shooting at 439 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: UM public figures. Now we're moving from Texas to New Orleans. 440 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: I'm moving back And she moved in with her friend 441 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: Ruth Payne, and that surely had an effect and impact 442 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: on Oswald. There's no way it couldn't because he already 443 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: had abandonment issues from his mother. Now his wife leaves 444 00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: him because he's just crazy, and he's like, well, you 445 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 1: know what, fine, I'm gonna stay here and I'm going 446 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 1: to start a chapter of a pro Cuba pro Castro 447 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: sympathizer club, and I'm going to be the one and 448 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: only member. But I'm gonna be a loudmouth member. Well 449 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: I think he wanted more than one member. But it 450 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: was another example of like nobody was interested in this guy. Nobody. 451 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 1: Russia didn't want him. No one joined his club, his 452 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: wife left him, Cuba didn't want him. No. He went 453 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 1: down to Mexico and visited the Cuban and Russian embassies, 454 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: trying to basically get in them with them, and they 455 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: were like, no, that's okay, thanks man. Yeah, like nobody was. 456 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: I think the words strictly used was no one was 457 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: ever very impressed with Oswald. They were unimpressed. So yet 458 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 1: in Cuban officials, I mean, if this guy was a Patsy, 459 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 1: he was the perfect Patsy. Oh yeah. But you can 460 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: also take all of this evidence and say well this 461 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: is what made him do this. Yeah, if he was 462 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: a patsy, you imagine how easy it would have been 463 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: for like one of the theories is the mafia, for 464 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: them to put their arm around and be like, you're 465 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: you're pretty great guy, right, you know what you should do? 466 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: You should kill the president. Yeah. Yeah, he would have 467 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: been very easy to manipulate. I imagine because he's also 468 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: just twenty four. It when he was a kid, which 469 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: is crazy. Um so he uh, he left New Orleans, 470 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: went back to Dallas, got a job, and about a 471 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 1: month later at the school book Depository, uh, shot and 472 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: killed John F. Kennedy. Yes, so, um Oswald's done his shooting. 473 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 1: He's caught. They started to investigate his background and Lyndon 474 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:40,120 Speaker 1: Johnson ordered a um an investigation, a full investigation into 475 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: the Kennedy assassination. What happened? Lessons learned all that stuff? 476 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: And this commission, led by Chief Justice Earl Warren UH 477 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: was called the Warren Commission and the report. They compiled 478 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: several hundred page reports called the Warren Report, And in 479 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: addition to the several hundred page report, they also released 480 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: twenty six volumes of transcripts of the hearings that they conducted. 481 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: So it's this exhaustive investigation that was very transparent. Supposedly, 482 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,120 Speaker 1: there's so many documents that to to try to censor them, 483 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,159 Speaker 1: really censor them, it would be virtually impossible. So a 484 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: lot of people point to the very fact that the 485 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: warr report is so voluminous that it is like in 486 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: fact correct and it's not part of a larger cover 487 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: up at least. Yeah, and I've sent you the article. 488 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 1: Did you read the one from the New York Times 489 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: that some people think they're still documents the CIA won't release. Well, 490 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: they won't. Well, but the one anti conspiracy guy that 491 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: they interviewed said, people that I don't know how the 492 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: CIA works that believe this stuff. He went, there would 493 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: be no documents, period. They wouldn't be hiding things, they 494 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: wouldn't exist Operation Killed President Kennedy. Yeah, I mean he's 495 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: sort of like a little pad on the head, like 496 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: you think there are documents, you sweet little conspiracy theorists. Um, 497 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: all right, So the Warrant Commission comes out, and immediately 498 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: conspiracy theorists start to suggest different things, like one theory 499 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: was that it was an outside job by the KGB 500 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: and or Cuba, right, we should say the Warrant Commission 501 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald killed President Kennedy on his 502 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: own volution, by himself, um, without acting at the behester 503 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: the benefit of anybody else, just a lone, singular, crazed gunman. 504 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: So the conspiracy theories are everybody else saying no, that's 505 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: not the case. And we gave the example of the 506 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: Grassy Knoll, the acoustics and daily plause of the fact 507 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: that a cop was running towards the Grassy Knoll and 508 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: conflicting eyewitness accounts, Like from the literal beginning of this event. 509 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: In history, there have been all sorts of hey that 510 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: people have been able to make conspiracy theories out of, 511 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: Like there's been no shortage of all sorts of different 512 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: weird things that you can start to piece together with 513 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: other things and come up with these very interesting, some 514 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: um sound conspiracy theories, but that when you really get 515 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: down to them, they're not supported by evidence exactly. I'm 516 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: glad you said that, Uh, the KGB or Cuba theory 517 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: that maybe their governments were acting out and trying to 518 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: kill Kennedy had some legs because the Bay of Pigs 519 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: had just happened. They were certainly no friends of Kennedy 520 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: at the height of the Cold War. There was definitely 521 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 1: a motive there, but Um, there was no evidence to 522 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: tie Oswald in any substantive way to either of these countries. No, 523 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: they looked at his finances over They went back a 524 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: year and a half and looked at his finances to 525 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: see if there were any weird payments or whatever. And 526 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: apparently the only amount total that they could have they 527 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: couldn't account for came to like a hundred and sixty dollars. 528 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 1: It could have been cash and diamonds, though I guess 529 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: it could have Been's how they like the deal. One 530 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: of the other popular theories I mentioned was the mob 531 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: and that Jack Ruby was working with the mob and 532 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: the second Oswald said, I'm a patsy. They're like, we 533 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: need to go take care of this, like right now. Yeah, 534 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: we haven't mentioned Jack Ruby. Two days after Um Kennedy 535 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 1: was killed, Um, they were transporting Lee Harvey Oswald and 536 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: a guy named Jack Ruby, who was a Dallas nightclub owner, 537 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: came up and shot Lee Harvey Oswald in the chest 538 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: and killed him. Lee Harvey Oswald actually died in Parkland 539 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: memorial the same hospital that Kennedy had two days before. Yeah, 540 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: a very famous photo which has since been made into 541 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: very funny photo. Have you seen the band one? No, 542 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: you never saw that. It was big years ago. It was, 543 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: you know, the photo of Ruby killing Kennedy, and someone 544 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: went in and photoshopped in musical instruments because they're all 545 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: like have different, you know, pained expressions. And Jack Ruby's 546 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:53,719 Speaker 1: at the keys, and I think Lee Harvey Oswald has 547 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: a guitar and it looks like it's pretty funny. Check 548 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: it out. How about another moment here for a message 549 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: break June. All right, let's get back to it. So 550 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: we were talking about the mafia um because Jack Ruby 551 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: owned a nightclub. Everybody's just like, well, he's went down 552 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: with the mob. What's more, Lee Harvey Oswald probably was 553 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: acting on behalf of the mob because he had an 554 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: uncle in New Orleans who was mafia connected. Mobbed up 555 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: as they say, they Yeah, but um, apparently there's no 556 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: evidence that Oswald and his uncle communicated at all, and 557 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: the these connections are fairly uh tenuous at best. Jack 558 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: Ruby himself said that the reason he did it was 559 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: because he wanted to spare Jacqueline and Caroline the heartper 560 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: of having to come back to Dallas to testify against 561 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: Lee Harvey Oswald. Oh really, that's what he officially said, 562 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 1: And apparently there's a transcript of and it is just hearsay, 563 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 1: but it's um Oswald talking with his lawyer saying that, um, 564 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: he's saying, like this whole charade we're doing. That he 565 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 1: that he shot Oswald while he was blacked out, and 566 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 1: he he can't be held responsible. That it's all just 567 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: it's just just stupid, and they should go with the 568 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: truth that you know, he did this because he wanted 569 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: to spare Jackie. Interesting, that's supposedly it. But then apparently 570 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: also he's supposedly he said that that was a charade 571 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: as well, So who knows. Well. Another theory is that 572 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: it was the CIA and it was an inside job. 573 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: Kennedy had criticized their practices and um was, you know, 574 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: trying to scale down Vietnam, and those weren't very popular 575 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: things to do at the time if you were in 576 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: the government, and so lot of people say, you know what, 577 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: Lennon Johnson might have orchestrated this whole thing, and it 578 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: was an inside job with the c I a there 579 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: like he barely ever wore pants for God's sake. Uh. 580 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 1: I don't know if this remained true to her death, 581 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 1: but both Bobby Kennedy and Jackie Kennedy at one point 582 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: I believe that quote he was felled by domestic opponents. Um. 583 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: And of course Bobby died not too long after five years. 584 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: But UM, I don't know if Jackie held that opinion 585 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,280 Speaker 1: her entire life. I'm not sure about that. I'm curious, 586 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 1: but it seems to ring a bell that like she 587 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 1: was suspicious of lb J. Yeah. UM, I know. Since 588 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: two thousand, there have been five legit tenured historians that 589 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,279 Speaker 1: have published studies. In four or the five concluded that 590 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,399 Speaker 1: there was probably some larger conspiracy at work, but none 591 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: of them agreed on what it was, so it's hard 592 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 1: to get a consensus. So ultimately, what the what it 593 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,359 Speaker 1: came down to the official line was that there were Um, 594 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 1: there was a rifle that had Oswald's fingerprints on it 595 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: that was found at the crime scene. That there is 596 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:11,280 Speaker 1: a picture in existence that of Oswald holding that exact 597 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: same rifle before the crime was committed. Um, he had 598 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 1: already tried to kill a general. Yeah, and the fact 599 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 1: that he said, well it's all over now when he 600 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: was apprehended and take all this together everybody who A 601 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: lot of people think it was Oswald. That's the official line, right. Yeah. 602 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: And the Zuppruter film has been used to that. You know, hey, 603 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: how can you shoot someone from this direction and the 604 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: head go that direction? Um. There were other films of 605 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:43,439 Speaker 1: the incident, but the Supruter is the most complete. UM. 606 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 1: I did look at some of the others. I've never 607 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: seen any of those before. It's weird to see it 608 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 1: from different angles. Yeah, if you're used to seeing just 609 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: the Zapruder film. UM. So the Warrant Commission did not 610 00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: put this issue to bed at all, even back then. Uh. 611 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 1: The there was another commission that took place in the 612 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies six, the House Select Committee on Assassinations, and 613 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: they investigated both JFK and Martin Luther King's assassinations. And 614 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 1: this is a group of UM House representatives who, you know, 615 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 1: it's true, are known for being the rabble rousers of 616 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:28,240 Speaker 1: the government, that branch of government. UM. But they basically 617 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 1: investigated this, carried out a full investigation and found that 618 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: you know, what we actually think that JFK did die 619 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: as a result of a conspiracy. We don't think it 620 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,239 Speaker 1: was the mob, we don't think it was the c 621 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,360 Speaker 1: i A, we don't think it was the FBI, and 622 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: we don't think it was the Cubans. But we do 623 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,839 Speaker 1: believe that it was a conspiracy and that um Lee 624 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: Harvey Oswell did not act alone. This is the House 625 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 1: of Representatives saying that, Yeah, well, they initially said that 626 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: there were four shots, but they were actually wrong. And 627 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: then later we can did that um with acoustic evidence 628 00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 1: and said, you know what, we were wrong on that, 629 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: and they did never find any like hard evidence. But 630 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 1: was there did they remain true to that statement? Yeah, 631 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: that were never their final report in yeah, um, yeah, 632 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: that it was part of a conspiracy. So that definitely 633 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,919 Speaker 1: didn't quell any No. And as a matter of fact, 634 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,439 Speaker 1: it's like, oh, well, the House of Representatives just said 635 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: Kennedy was killed as part of a conspiracy, like if 636 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: if it was dying down before it flared right back up. 637 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 1: And there was another one almost at the same time, 638 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 1: a Rockefeller Commission by Vice President Nelson Rockefeller. And a 639 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,720 Speaker 1: lot of people think that the Rockefeller Commission was basically 640 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,759 Speaker 1: just like a fact finding committee that was there to 641 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:45,239 Speaker 1: basically cover up in um derail any other investigations. Yeah, 642 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 1: kind of like, we got this, we got this. You know. 643 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,319 Speaker 1: It didn't work though, because of the House Select Committee. Well, 644 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,880 Speaker 1: they invalidated one of our favorite little parts of the theory, 645 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: the three tramps theory. Um. At the time, there were 646 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 1: these three vagrants that were detained by police that had 647 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 1: been traveling by box cars supposedly, and um, that's how 648 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: they travel often, that is how they travel. And two 649 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: of the men for a while, we're believed to have 650 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 1: been E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis, who were the 651 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: dudes who broke into Watergate, which would be a nice 652 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,800 Speaker 1: little coincidence. Yeah. Well there's a whole side by side 653 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 1: photographic comparison of the tune. I mean it looks a 654 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: lot like well it does. Um, the FBI got experts 655 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,240 Speaker 1: to do the same thing though that said, no, that 656 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: it's not them and the third guy. And if you're 657 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,240 Speaker 1: a conspiracy theorists, you're like, oh, okay, well thanks, FBI, 658 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,920 Speaker 1: appreciate that. I believe you. Um. The third guy was 659 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: rumored to be Woody Harrelson's dad, Charles Harrison. He was 660 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 1: a hitman, and he they were estranged by the way, 661 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 1: Woody Harrelson is not like he doesn't talk about this much. 662 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 1: It's not one of his favorite topics. Sorry, I know 663 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 1: we gotta talk about it. But um, he he killed 664 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 1: a federal judge. And then when he was caught in 665 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 1: a standoff of nineteen eighty high on cocaine, he said 666 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 1: I killed Kennedy too, and then later on recanted that 667 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,439 Speaker 1: and said, I just said that because I was high 668 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 1: on cocaine. Yeah, and I was trying to elongate my life. 669 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 1: And like they I don't think they would have killed 670 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 1: me if they if I had information what it was. 671 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 1: That's what he said in a in an interview from prison. 672 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 1: But conspiracy theorists latched onto this and said he's the 673 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 1: third tramp. He was the youngest one of the three. 674 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,759 Speaker 1: And the pictures kind of look alike, you know it 675 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 1: to Harrison's dad was one of a trio of men 676 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: who killed JFK. Well, all of this could have been 677 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,400 Speaker 1: put to bed if the dudes look nothing like the 678 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 1: other guys, but they all kind of did. So another 679 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: thing to add fuel to the fire, for sure. And 680 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,759 Speaker 1: we should say also there's um even more like you 681 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 1: were saying, the CIA still still will not declassify documents 682 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 1: that they have about the JFK assassination. That's not helping things. 683 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 1: Something did come to light though, from UM investigations into 684 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:08,720 Speaker 1: the CIA. The a guy named George Joannity's he Um 685 00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 1: was a CIA agent who was basically in charge of 686 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: a group of anti Cuban student dissidents right or anti 687 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,000 Speaker 1: Castro Cuban student dissidents, and he was running their operation 688 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 1: in Miami and New Orleans. They actually beat up Lee 689 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,399 Speaker 1: Harvey Oswald while he was in New Orleans handing out 690 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 1: pamphlets that were pro Cuban and pro Castro um like 691 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 1: a few months before the assassination. So George Joannity's ran 692 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: that operation and then later on in n when the 693 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,440 Speaker 1: House Select Committee was investigating it again, he was the 694 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 1: liaison for the CIA, But no one told the How 695 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:55,200 Speaker 1: Select Committee the involvement he'd had before. Interesting, Yeah, well, uh, 696 00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,319 Speaker 1: with what he's dad, he actually had a co conspiracor 697 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,239 Speaker 1: that said, you know what, he confessed this before to 698 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,760 Speaker 1: me and even drew maps about where he was hiding 699 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 1: the day it happened. Um. But in arrest records were released, 700 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 1: and that identified the three tramps as uh Gus Abrams, 701 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,600 Speaker 1: Harold Doyle, and John Gedney. It was all sound like suspicious, 702 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,239 Speaker 1: made up names. And they I think they interviewed a 703 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: couple of these guys later in life and they're like, yeah, 704 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: we were the guys, and we were just boxcar dudes, 705 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,280 Speaker 1: even though we had suits on and we're clean shaven, 706 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 1: and oh well, everybody back then was like, even if 707 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:39,880 Speaker 1: you were like just the total complete hobo, you still 708 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:45,839 Speaker 1: wore a suit in Fedora usually. Uh So again people 709 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,360 Speaker 1: point to that and say, these clearly weren't you know, 710 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 1: these guys were paid or you know. And then a 711 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:55,960 Speaker 1: lot of other hanky things happened. People disappeared, witnesses disappeared. Um, 712 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,840 Speaker 1: it's it's never going to die. I don't think. I 713 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 1: don't think anyone will ever at this go. But that's 714 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,239 Speaker 1: that's what makes a great conspiracy theory, right. There's just 715 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:09,879 Speaker 1: too many facts outstanding that just can't be put to bed. 716 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 1: So you got anything else, I got nothing else. If 717 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 1: you want to learn more about this, or if this 718 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,720 Speaker 1: piqued your interest, you should definitely check out our buddies 719 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 1: over at stuff. They don't want you to know. They 720 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,759 Speaker 1: have a huge, awesome body of work um that they 721 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,839 Speaker 1: put together over the years and continue to do so. Uh. 722 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,200 Speaker 1: And you can also read this article on how stuff 723 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,759 Speaker 1: works dot com by typing JFK into the search bar 724 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,239 Speaker 1: and see what comes up. And since I said search part, 725 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 1: it means it's time for listener mail. I'm gonna call 726 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:43,360 Speaker 1: this Chinese zombies from sam LaRussa. Hey, guys, don't know 727 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:44,759 Speaker 1: if you're aware of this, but you have a bit 728 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 1: of a cult here in Wuhan, China. Awesome a whole 729 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 1: two people, my girlfriend and I still it's pretty great. Yeah. 730 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 1: We listen to you all the time and as you 731 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 1: tell us about stuff we should know. Um. We're both 732 00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 1: English teachers, and outside of with each other, the Stuff 733 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,240 Speaker 1: you Should Know podcast is just about the only English 734 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:06,359 Speaker 1: speaking we get on a day to day basis. Um. 735 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,319 Speaker 1: I have an incident though to write you about where 736 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,000 Speaker 1: stuff you should know save my butt and it just 737 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,760 Speaker 1: happened yesterday. Wu Hand schools have a three hour siesta 738 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,560 Speaker 1: to avoid the hottest part of the day, and I 739 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,920 Speaker 1: usually use the time to plan lessons or take a nap. Um. 740 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,479 Speaker 1: Yesterday I decided to forego planning lessons in just nap 741 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,320 Speaker 1: and woke up a mirror twenty minutes before my afternoon 742 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:31,520 Speaker 1: and twenty minute lesson. Completely unprepared. I started panic, but 743 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,840 Speaker 1: then remember, do zombies really exist? Stuff you should know 744 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 1: podcasts I had listened to just earlier that day. My 745 00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:40,400 Speaker 1: students are well aware of the zombie apocalypse theory at 746 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,000 Speaker 1: the end of the world, but neither I nor they 747 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,839 Speaker 1: knew anything about the history of zombies, and I had 748 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:51,239 Speaker 1: been shockingly irresponsible regarding zombie apocalypse survival strategies. So I 749 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 1: jumped online, ran off twenty two copies of how zombies 750 00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,560 Speaker 1: work from how stuff works dot com, highlighted some very 751 00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,000 Speaker 1: good vocabulary and some grammar patterns, and had a two 752 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,160 Speaker 1: hour lesson ready to go in twenty minutes, all thanks 753 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,319 Speaker 1: to you, guys. So there you have it, how you 754 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,400 Speaker 1: saved my butt and turning otherwise really awkward two hours 755 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,600 Speaker 1: of nothingness into a kick butt zombie survival lesson. Hopefully 756 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 1: your cult following will grow to five, maybe even six people. 757 00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:20,360 Speaker 1: Uh and Sam LaRussa thank you for being lazy and 758 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,200 Speaker 1: napping on the job and then using our work to 759 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,000 Speaker 1: uh do your job. But not really though, because he 760 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,319 Speaker 1: could have just been like, Oh, well, I guess they're 761 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,640 Speaker 1: just gonna sit there quietly for two hours. He like 762 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,279 Speaker 1: really hustled. That's true, he took initiative way to go, 763 00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:37,880 Speaker 1: sam uh And thanks to you and you're his wife, 764 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,239 Speaker 1: right her girlfriend. Thanks your girlfriend. Thanks to both of 765 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,120 Speaker 1: you for holding things down for us and Wuhan, we 766 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:48,200 Speaker 1: appreciate that. If you are located at some remote outposts 767 00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:52,360 Speaker 1: of the world or in some bustling cosmopolis, whatever we 768 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,400 Speaker 1: want to hear from you, You can tweet to us 769 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,799 Speaker 1: at s y s K podcast. You can join us 770 00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:58,960 Speaker 1: on Facebook dot com, slish stuff you Should Know. You 771 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,600 Speaker 1: can send us an email to Stuff Podcast at Discovery 772 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,439 Speaker 1: dot com, and as always, you can join us at 773 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:12,880 Speaker 1: stuff you Should Know dot com. For more on this 774 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:23,120 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics, visit how Stuff Works dot com.