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Speaker 3: You're at the volume. Have you Friday? Everybody?
Speaker 2: Hope all of you guys are having an incredible week
Speaker 2: so far. As we head into this jam packed NBA weekend,
Speaker 2: we have a very special show today. The guys from
Speaker 2: nerd Sets, Logan and Carson are coming on. We're gonna
Speaker 2: talk about all of the big time scenarios that are
Speaker 2: taking place over the next few days. We have, first
Speaker 2: of all, our contender lists, and Logan and Carson released
Speaker 2: their contender lists on their show and also on Instagram
Speaker 2: the other day and I was looking at it and
Speaker 2: both of them have the Phoenix Suns.
Speaker 3: Completely off their list. So we're gonna debate that.
Speaker 2: Talk about a couple other things on their list, and
Speaker 2: that they're gonna come at me about things that they
Speaker 2: disagree about with my list. Also, after that, we're gonna
Speaker 2: talk about the top of the Eastern Conference in light
Speaker 2: of the Yannis injury. Are the Celtics just gonna kill
Speaker 2: everybody or is there a threat in there. We're gonna
Speaker 2: talk about that. After that, we're gonna look at the
Speaker 2: bottom of the Western Conference because the play in tournament
Speaker 2: can go in a million different directions. This weekend we're
Speaker 2: gonna dig into some scenarios and what we expect to
Speaker 2: see there. And then lastly, today we have one playoff
Speaker 2: series that is set in stone. Even the Eastern Conference
Speaker 2: is completely up in flux right now, but in the
Speaker 2: Western Conference, we are going to get the rematch of
Speaker 2: the rematch of Clippers versus MAVs, and we're gonna just
Speaker 2: do a full blown series preview, diving into that series
Speaker 2: tactically on both ends of the floor, and we will
Speaker 2: end that segment with us making our predictions. So without
Speaker 2: any further ado, Carson and Logan, I was shocked when
Speaker 2: I put my list together and I had Phoenix at five,
Speaker 2: mainly just because they have two of the top fifteen
Speaker 2: players in the league on their roster, and a center
Speaker 2: that can bang bodies with Nicole Jokic and give him
Speaker 2: some issues. And a ton of off ball talent, including
Speaker 2: Bradley Beale that can help space teams out. I think
Speaker 2: they're the best driving kick team in the league, and
Speaker 2: so I'm higher on them than you guys, And I
Speaker 2: was stunned to see the teams like, let's just say
Speaker 2: the Miami Heat if we're above them, and some other
Speaker 2: examples around the league. So you guys have an opportunity
Speaker 2: now to defend yourselves, and we'll start with you, Carson.
Speaker 2: Why are the Phoenix Suns not a top ten contender
Speaker 2: for you?
Speaker 4: Specifically on the question of the Heat. That is just
Speaker 4: a tough one, because I do think that the Suns
Speaker 4: are better than Miami. I just kind of felt like,
Speaker 4: if I leave the Heat entirely off of this top
Speaker 4: ten list, just considering how they have defied their regular
Speaker 4: season results and how proven their playoff formula of elite defense,
Speaker 4: Jimmy somehow elevating to this legit offensive number one is
Speaker 4: and I like their collection of wings and secondary creators
Speaker 4: more than last year. I felt like putting them in
Speaker 4: the ten spot was sort of a happy medium between
Speaker 4: the team they've looked like this regular season and the
Speaker 4: team that we have seen them capable of ascending to,
Speaker 4: even though I think they were very fortunate in various
Speaker 4: respects in terms of last year's playoff run. But on
Speaker 4: the question of the Suns, I was surprised to see
Speaker 4: that you have them all the way up at five.
Speaker 3: I think that they.
Speaker 4: Belong right around that ten to eleven twelve range. They
Speaker 4: absolutely do scare me because they have Kevin Durant and
Speaker 4: Devin Booker and just the pull up shot making, the
Speaker 4: offensive skill that those guys are capable of putting forth
Speaker 4: as one of the best scoring duos that we have
Speaker 4: seen in the history of this league like that is
Speaker 4: absolutely terrifying, and we saw it against the Nuggets last year.
Speaker 4: They were the team that was able to steal two
Speaker 4: games away just because those two would especially book were
Speaker 4: so unconscious, they were so absurdly good as pull up
Speaker 4: shooters that they were able to generrate a sort of
Speaker 4: offensive success that even though the Nuggets were still getting there.
Speaker 4: Is it just outweighed that. But when I look at
Speaker 4: the scope of the West this year, I do think
Speaker 4: there's a lot of really strong teams, and I think
Speaker 4: there's a decent amount of teams that are a bit
Speaker 4: more complete at Phoenix, And if we sort of break
Speaker 4: them into different categories, if I compare them to like
Speaker 4: these skill based teams, where we have these huge, jumbo
Speaker 4: sized teams out West that are probably gonna defend at
Speaker 4: a really high level and have these big physical advantages,
Speaker 4: and then we have the teams like the Thunder and
Speaker 4: the Clippers, where the Thunder are obviously uniquely small and slight,
Speaker 4: but the Clippers, although they play a traditional five like
Speaker 4: the Suns do, these are skill based teams based on
Speaker 4: their perimeter shows. And in both the Clippers and Suns cases,
Speaker 4: it's not about like we have these super high end
Speaker 4: athletes who are gonna consistently generate this rim pressure. It's
Speaker 4: about the skilled shotmaking and shot creation of their wings.
Speaker 4: And I just think we have seen a much higher
Speaker 4: ceiling from the Clippers. I do think they have a
Speaker 4: different level of physicality, just when you think about how
Speaker 4: Kawhi alone can impose himself in those environments. Even though
Speaker 4: they've been bad defensively for two months, they have shown
Speaker 4: a higher defensive ceiling, and I like their perimeter talent
Speaker 4: there and Zubots on the interior more and I think
Speaker 4: they have the best player in that series. So I
Speaker 4: like La Moore. I know you agree with that one,
Speaker 4: and I'm not as high on La as you are, Okay, See,
Speaker 4: I just think is so much more proven defensively. They're
Speaker 4: so athletic on the perimeter, they're so pesky, they're so
Speaker 4: consistently dialed in there. Chet obviously his slightness is an issue,
Speaker 4: and we saw Nirk get his thirty boards against him
Speaker 4: because there's just such a massive strength advantage there. But
Speaker 4: I still think Chet's an elite pure rimper. And then
Speaker 4: I like the formula that Okse has of multiple dudes
Speaker 4: who are just so hard to stay in front of.
Speaker 4: I think they're the best driving kick team in the
Speaker 4: league just because of the consistent penetration that you get
Speaker 4: from Jadab and Shay, and they have I would say,
Speaker 4: a better three point shooting cast overall, but also a
Speaker 4: higher volume three point shooting cast, So I think there's
Speaker 4: a higher ceiling there. And then I prefer the Lakers.
Speaker 4: I think that their formula of two top ten guys
Speaker 4: with the secondary shot creation we've seen with Ruey and
Speaker 4: the starting five. They're huge. Their offense has been really good,
Speaker 4: and I think they clearly have a higher defensive ceiling
Speaker 4: if Vanda is healthy. And I just like how their
Speaker 4: two top ten players compliment each other. Eighty dominates defensively,
Speaker 4: Lebron dominates offensively. They both impose themselves physically, the two Wolves,
Speaker 4: I just think that defense is so great. So ultimately
Speaker 4: it comes down to the fact that a lot of
Speaker 4: these teams have had their moments, They've had their stretches
Speaker 4: where you're like, boy, they look like Juggernauts, the Clippers
Speaker 4: when they went twenty six and six, the Lakers, even
Speaker 4: if it's been in shorter spurts, I would argue mostly
Speaker 4: post All Star breaking in the Ncason Tournament, the Tea, Wolves,
Speaker 4: the Thunder, these teams have just consistently won a whole
Speaker 4: bunch of games. Phoenix hasn't really had that stretch to me,
Speaker 4: and I think that they're going to be pretty average defensively,
Speaker 4: and they're going to ask their stars to take on
Speaker 4: a significant burden there just because of the nature of
Speaker 4: their roster composition. I think although Book and Kadie are
Speaker 4: so unbelievable as shot makers, and although they do have
Speaker 4: good complimentary off ball pieces, there's a reason this team
Speaker 4: is still eleventh in offensive rating, and it's because they
Speaker 4: don't really have that ability to just break open a
Speaker 4: crazy ceiling because of the lack of high end rim
Speaker 4: pressure for any of their stars and because of the
Speaker 4: fact that they aren't a high volume three point shooting team.
Speaker 4: So it may be the reality that these dudes can
Speaker 4: sit there and make fifty percent of their mid range
Speaker 4: pull up jumpers over you, night after night, and that's
Speaker 4: good offense, but it's not great offense in the same
Speaker 4: way that some of these other teams would more physical
Speaker 4: advantages than higher shooter ceilings are. I don't love the
Speaker 4: depth here, and this team has just been so disastrous
Speaker 4: in fourth quarters on both sides of the ball. I
Speaker 4: think their offensive process has been bad. They've been sloppy,
Speaker 4: they've been super turnover prone. So the Suns are still
Speaker 4: an uncomfortable first round draw to me, absolutely, but I
Speaker 4: don't view them as being in that contender tier because
Speaker 4: it's kind of like with their defensive limitations, with the
Speaker 4: fact that they haven't reached the offensive peaks that some
Speaker 4: of these other teams have with the fact that they
Speaker 4: aren't the most physically imposing, it's tough for me to
Speaker 4: see them stringing together like series after series after series.
Speaker 1: I think Carson hit on a few key points that
Speaker 1: I really agree with. On the Miami Phoenix point when
Speaker 1: he's talking about these teams underperforming in the regular season,
Speaker 1: I do think Miami just their track record, they've shown
Speaker 1: us that they can just turn around and flip a
Speaker 1: switch and be a completely different team in the playoffs,
Speaker 1: when I don't really see that with Phoenix. I think
Speaker 1: it's they've shown me too many red flags in the
Speaker 1: regular season. And I also think it's a fundamental roster
Speaker 1: construction issue. I think you're expecting role players to play
Speaker 1: above their means when I also don't love their depth,
Speaker 1: and then I think you're expecting stars to fill roles
Speaker 1: that they just aren't equipped to phill, where like Carson said,
Speaker 1: you're gonna ask these guys to go above and beyond
Speaker 1: defensively and on the glass and just feel things that
Speaker 1: they're not really equipped to do. The real issue that
Speaker 1: I have with Phoenix is their late game offense in
Speaker 1: just late game process in general, like they have been
Speaker 1: horrid in fourth quarters. They have been horrid in the clutch.
Speaker 1: They are thirtieth and fourth quarter offensive rating this season
Speaker 1: one oh four point one. They're twenty second in fourth
Speaker 1: quarter defensive rating. They have the worst net rating in
Speaker 1: the fourth quarter of any team in the NBA, and
Speaker 1: they're twenty ninth in turnover percentage in the clutch. They're
Speaker 1: twenty third in offense, they're fourteenth in defense in the clutch.
Speaker 1: They're nineteenth and net rating in the clutch, And that
Speaker 1: to me is the real stain for Phoenix personnel wise.
Speaker 1: You guys are right like big NRK KD Beal book
Speaker 1: These are guys that can really swing a series and
Speaker 1: swing games, but they just haven't shown it enough to me. Like,
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm really scarred by all the late game
Speaker 1: collapses that I've seen with Phoenix where it's I don't know, man,
Speaker 1: Eric Gordon trying to push the ball up in transition
Speaker 1: and you know, Grayson Allen trying to do too much,
Speaker 1: and I am screaming at my television going, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: can we get Devin Booker a touch? Like I can't
Speaker 1: remember what game it was a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: but it's like the final three minutes, Devin Booker doesn't
Speaker 1: touch the ball on offense in the fourth quarter, and
Speaker 1: I don't know there's there's That's my biggest issue is
Speaker 1: there's not like a hierarchy to this team where the
Speaker 1: role players really complement the team. And then yeah, in
Speaker 1: late game scenarios, it's guys trying to do too much.
Speaker 1: It's them settling for mid range jumpers. Like the Suns
Speaker 1: just haven't shown it to me enough this season to
Speaker 1: where I can believe in them and I trust that
Speaker 1: this is the Suns team that we're gonna get. We're
Speaker 1: in fourth quarters, they play below their means, we're in
Speaker 1: the clutch, they perform like this team. I think there's
Speaker 1: a higher ceiling they can reach. But like I really
Speaker 1: just I think they've shown us who they are too
Speaker 1: many times in this regular season, and I don't think
Speaker 1: this is a switch issue where they can just effort
Speaker 1: and energy wise and just lock in. I think there's
Speaker 1: way more issues under the surface.
Speaker 2: I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying.
Speaker 2: They've been a jeckal and Hyde team. They are the
Speaker 2: definition of a team that like when they play basketball
Speaker 2: the right way, offensively like advantage creation basketball, where their
Speaker 2: stars just look to get the defense in rotation and
Speaker 2: then they play drive and kick. They can be devastating.
Speaker 2: They've had stretches of games they just recently played like
Speaker 2: a five or six straight Top ten defenses and had
Speaker 2: like a seventy percent assist percentage in those games, and
Speaker 2: they lit them all up. But then they'll lose sight
Speaker 2: of that sometimes and they'll get sloppy. They they struggle
Speaker 2: to handle ball pressure and apps and things along those lines.
Speaker 2: They're guys that like to prefer there are guys that
Speaker 2: prefer to work in the action when they're comfortable, and
Speaker 2: then as soon as teams really kind of again, like
Speaker 2: when you trap a team or double team a player,
Speaker 2: it's a good thing typically, and Phoenix is really good
Speaker 2: at capitalizing on that. The reason why I think they're
Speaker 2: a better driving kick team than Oklahoma City is literally
Speaker 2: because of the fact that they're off bubble.
Speaker 3: They don't have like a Josh.
Speaker 2: Giddy or Elude Dort and loud Dort shot the ball
Speaker 2: really well this year, but he can get a little
Speaker 2: tunnel vision when he's driving closeouts, and obviously Giddy can
Speaker 2: is a guy that you typically are leaving open when
Speaker 2: I try to think of the Suns within the scope
Speaker 2: of their best five players, which in my opinion, Suns
Speaker 2: fans disagree about this. Some of them think it should
Speaker 2: be Royce O'Neil. I personally think it should be Grayson Allen.
Speaker 2: But when they actually have you know, Booker, Bal Durant, Allen,
Speaker 2: and Nurkic out there, you're closing out hard basically at
Speaker 2: everybody except for Nurkic. And Nurkic is such a connective
Speaker 2: piece in terms of his ability to make reads when
Speaker 2: he's left open and to quickly turn in pivot into dribble,
Speaker 2: handoffs and stuff. When they play the right way, they
Speaker 2: can be very good. That Jekyl and Hyde piece is
Speaker 2: what I think gets people off of them. I agree
Speaker 2: as well as it pertains to the physicality, Like Carson mentioned,
Speaker 2: like Phoenix has a tendency to get punched in the
Speaker 2: mouth and then struggle, But then I've also seen them
Speaker 2: rise to the physical challenge of Denver a few times too,
Speaker 2: and so like it comes to the point of that
Speaker 2: which team are they? Are they the high end version
Speaker 2: or are they the low end version. One of the
Speaker 2: things that I think people have to keep in mind.
Speaker 2: Is like, for instance, in the Clippers game, Nurkic didn't play. Obviously,
Speaker 2: that's not an excuse to completely wipe that performance away,
Speaker 2: But more often than not this year, when they've been
Speaker 2: down guys is when they've looked bad. As a matter
Speaker 2: of fact, among all five man lineups in the NBA
Speaker 2: this year that played at least four hundred minutes, the
Speaker 2: Durant Beale, Nurkic, Booker Allen lineup has been the fourth
Speaker 2: best in the entire league, outscoring teams by ten point
Speaker 2: three points per one hundred possessions and a one to
Speaker 2: twenty four offensive rating, which is the second best in
Speaker 2: the league to the classic starting five for Denver, which,
Speaker 2: by the way, a one to twenty six offensive This season,
Speaker 2: Lordship outscoring teams by fourteen points per one hundred possessions.
Speaker 2: So Denver just looking like a complete and total jugger
Speaker 2: not But again the case the case there is like
Speaker 2: they're better than they've looked because when they're healthy, they
Speaker 2: tend to play a certain style and they've been better
Speaker 2: in those situations. They also have shown really good upside
Speaker 2: to me in some specific matchups, to me, getting out
Speaker 2: of the Western Conference, A prerequisite. A prerequisite was Denver,
Speaker 2: and I almost going into about a week and a
Speaker 2: half ago, I had Phoenix above Dallas and will kind
Speaker 2: of flip that dynamic for me was seeing Dallas hold
Speaker 2: up better physically in some tougher matchups, but like to me,
Speaker 2: that ability of Nurkic to just kind of make things
Speaker 2: a little tougher on Jokic, especially in the second Denver game.
Speaker 2: I thought Kevin Durant was unbelievable defense in that game.
Speaker 2: And so when Nurkic is bodying Jokic and kd is
Speaker 2: bringing that kind of back line length that we know
Speaker 2: can be so devastating, they provide a little bit of
Speaker 2: a tougher matchup. The other thing, too, Denver is a
Speaker 2: high drop and tag team for the most part, So
Speaker 2: what that means is they are pretty consistently leaving someone
Speaker 2: open on defense, and Phoenix is the type of team
Speaker 2: that can capitalize that on that in a way that
Speaker 2: some other teams can't. Like, they're a team that like
Speaker 2: when they actually handle pressure well and get rid of
Speaker 2: the ball to the right spots, they're really difficult to guard.
Speaker 2: And so the case again, I agree with you I
Speaker 2: have the Clippers above them, I have Dallas above them.
Speaker 2: But to me, the reason why I have them as
Speaker 2: high as I do is they match up well with Denver.
Speaker 2: And it really is that simple in my opinion, all
Speaker 2: of these other teams, like as good as Dallas is,
Speaker 2: Jokic is gonna eat their front line alive, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean in a seven gamer, right, Like as
Speaker 2: good as the Lakers are, Jamal Murray's gonna eat their
Speaker 2: best court alive. Right, as good as the Clippers are,
Speaker 2: they've consistently struggled with Denver and just their ability to
Speaker 2: pick them apart on offense.
Speaker 3: So, like I.
Speaker 2: Understand where you guys are coming from. I just think
Speaker 2: pure talent matchup advantages in the Western Conference. Kind of
Speaker 2: sifting through some of their good and bad this year,
Speaker 2: I still view them as a significant and substantial threat.
Speaker 3: All right, So I got one.
Speaker 2: More quick phone to pick with each of you guys,
Speaker 2: and we'll just go one on one for each of
Speaker 2: these real quick, and then I'll let you guys go
Speaker 2: after my list a little bit. So, Carson, you had
Speaker 2: the Timberwolves at five.
Speaker 3: If I remember correctly, I think I had them at four. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you had them way up.
Speaker 2: I was watching once again the Denver Minnesota game last
Speaker 2: night two nights ago, and I did a pretty extensive
Speaker 2: film session on it, and like, I just remain convinced
Speaker 2: that the Timberwolves are just not going to be able
Speaker 2: to score consistently when they get into these situations. And
Speaker 2: there are enough guys in their lineups that you can
Speaker 2: pick on on the defensive end of the floor that
Speaker 2: you can find a way to score, which is why
Speaker 2: Minnesota's clutch time defense has been so bad. I'm just
Speaker 2: not very high on the Timberwolves. What's your where are
Speaker 2: you getting your optimism from?
Speaker 1: So?
Speaker 4: I think the Timberwolves are like maybe the most interesting
Speaker 4: team headed into the playoffs because they sort of contradict
Speaker 4: the various precedents that we have for successful playoff teams.
Speaker 4: The first box that it feels like you pretty much
Speaker 4: always have to check if you want to make a
Speaker 4: deep playoff run is having a Tier one superstar guy.
Speaker 4: And I love Amp, but he's just not at that
Speaker 4: level yet. He's not consistent enough as a playmaker, he's
Speaker 4: not consistent enough as a pull up shooter. He's just
Speaker 4: going to continue to refine his game and he will
Speaker 4: ascend to that level, but he's not there yet. And
Speaker 4: along with that, you have to have a good offense,
Speaker 4: and you have to have a good half court offense.
Speaker 4: And that's a reason that I have been consistently out
Speaker 4: on a team like the Grizzlies in recent years because
Speaker 4: they just haven't produced in the half court in the
Speaker 4: regular season, and then you get into the playoff environments
Speaker 4: and you see that their offensive skill level and half
Speaker 4: court creation isn't quite up to the level of these
Speaker 4: other teams that maybe they're beating in the regular season.
Speaker 4: Some of the reasons I feel differently about Minnesota. Number one,
Speaker 4: I don't think that they have then enough offensive pop
Speaker 4: to beat Denver, like I definitely wouldn't pick it. I
Speaker 4: also think they make Denver more uncomfortable and defend them
Speaker 4: significantly better than anybody else. And so that alone is
Speaker 4: just a punch that nobody else can throw because it's
Speaker 4: so hard trying to figure out how do you beat Denver.
Speaker 4: Is it you just go nuclear offensively or you slow
Speaker 4: them down offensively enough? Nobody is taking away Denver being
Speaker 4: a damn good offense, But is it just we take
Speaker 4: away seven eight percent of their production? And then we
Speaker 4: can grind out enough to outpace that. And that's where
Speaker 4: I kind of view the MAVs as the best offensive
Speaker 4: threat because Luke and Kyrie are going nuclear that shot creation.
Speaker 4: To me, the ceiling there exceeds what the Suns would
Speaker 4: have in a similar mold. And then I do think
Speaker 4: Dallas has been defending better and matches up better physically.
Speaker 4: And then the t Wolves are sort of the alternative
Speaker 4: where it's just we grind this series down and make
Speaker 4: it ugly and defend them better than anybody else. And
Speaker 4: I do think that they're a pretty exceptional team defensively.
Speaker 4: The gap between them and the number two defense in
Speaker 4: the league right now in terms of defensive rating is
Speaker 4: the biggest that we have seen in thirty years and
Speaker 4: entirely different NBA. Yeah, but the last team who had
Speaker 4: that big a margin was the ninety four Knicks, who
Speaker 4: were a mediocre offense. They were sixteenth in offensive rating
Speaker 4: and they still made the finals just on the back
Speaker 4: of how great that defense was. So again, different leagues,
Speaker 4: but generally, that fundamental truth has always been the same.
Speaker 4: You have to produce offensively, and you have to do
Speaker 4: it in the half court. I just wonder if Minnesota
Speaker 4: is so great defensively, and they're so brutal for anybody
Speaker 4: to play, and they're so physically overwhelming, like that's the
Speaker 4: thing they are going to win on the glass in
Speaker 4: these matchups. I think that defensively they really have an
Speaker 4: answer for anybody because they have such hounds at the
Speaker 4: point of attack. They're so athletic there, they're so consistently
Speaker 4: dialed in and they're physical, and then you have the
Speaker 4: best rim protector in basketball still the best interior defender.
Speaker 4: I think at his physicality as the four when he's
Speaker 4: back out there, what he can do as a post defender, like,
Speaker 4: I think he's improved substantially defensively. So they do violate
Speaker 4: that principle that you have to produce offensively. But it's
Speaker 4: kind of like, who do I think is going to
Speaker 4: score enough on them for that to matter? And it's
Speaker 4: probably Dallas because I don't know you can really take
Speaker 4: away what they're doing when Luca is on this level
Speaker 4: and Kyrie is on this level, and then it's the
Speaker 4: Nuggets everybody else. I think Minnesota grinds their offense to
Speaker 4: a halt by enough to where they don't need to
Speaker 4: produce at like the level that we know these other
Speaker 4: teams are capable of in their ceilings just because they've
Speaker 4: taken such a chunk out of their offensive productions.
Speaker 2: Okay, I have one counter, and I'll give you a
Speaker 2: quick opportunity to counter that. I agree with you that
Speaker 2: their defense is a huge weapon, and I think it's
Speaker 2: going to keep every game close. M hm, But they
Speaker 2: suck in close games.
Speaker 3: Sure, the clutch offense has been bad.
Speaker 4: The clutch offense has been bad, and like that is
Speaker 4: my red flag, but I also don't want to just
Speaker 4: like overlook how this defense has made them such a
Speaker 4: consistently great team. And it feels very different to me
Speaker 4: in terms of, oh, this is a team that is
Speaker 4: winning a bunch of regular season games than Oka see
Speaker 4: because both these teams have playoff red flags. But Minnesota
Speaker 4: just checks more boxes, more experienced, way more physical, and
Speaker 4: I think that defense as a problem really translates. But
Speaker 4: I don't disagree in my concern about the late game
Speaker 4: offense and the half court offense. However, I also think
Speaker 4: there will be games that, like they win comfortably just
Speaker 4: because you can't score on them. So that's kind of
Speaker 4: what I'm betting on. But I wouldn't be shocked if,
Speaker 4: say they drew the Lakers, if they lost that first
Speaker 4: round series at all. Even the Suns, it's like if
Speaker 4: they go ice cold offensively, if Ant has a bad series,
Speaker 4: if Kat doesn't look like himself, like Minnesota could lose
Speaker 4: first round. I don't think the gaps are very big
Speaker 4: after Denver, but I believe in that defense. I think
Speaker 4: that defense translates, and I think they are going to
Speaker 4: suck to play.
Speaker 2: There's a decent chance that we get Minnesota, that we
Speaker 2: get Minnesota versus the Lakers in round one. We'll talk
Speaker 2: about some of the scenarios when we get to the
Speaker 2: play in bracket. But because the Timberwolves have the tiebreaker
Speaker 2: over the Thunder and they should both win out in theory,
Speaker 2: although the Timberwolves will have a tough game against the Suns, like,
Speaker 2: there's a good chance they end up at two, and
Speaker 2: if things break right for the Lakers tonight, they should
Speaker 2: be at the eight or the seven, which if they
Speaker 2: win that game, they would end up that seven seed
Speaker 2: facing off against Minnesota, and so that would be the
Speaker 2: interesting thing is like I just imagine Lebron and Ad
Speaker 2: really really baiting Ant into his limitations as a playmaker.
Speaker 2: And then and then just like again that Anthony, that
Speaker 2: Anthony Edwards versus Anthony Davis matchup in terms of like
Speaker 2: just kind of shutting off the paint. And again like
Speaker 2: ad has always given Gobar issues too. That's gonna be
Speaker 2: an interesting series. I again, I want to be clear
Speaker 2: to upfront before we move on to Logan. I think
Speaker 2: we're splitting hairs for most of these, like I have
Speaker 2: the I told you guys that I had the Timberwolves
Speaker 2: at nine and the Bucks at eight. But if Giannis
Speaker 2: misses the first round, there's like a really good chance
Speaker 2: they just don't make it out of the first round.
Speaker 2: And if that's the case, I'd move the Timberwolves up
Speaker 2: to eight, and I'd probably put the Sixers in at nine.
Speaker 2: I don't think that there's much of a gap at
Speaker 2: all between the Timberwolves and the MAVs, Like it's an
Speaker 2: imperceptible gap to me, like Dallas, the Clippers, the Suns,
Speaker 2: the Lakers, the thunder the Timberwolves. To me, they're all
Speaker 2: like neck and neck, and so like you have them
Speaker 2: higher than I do. We're arguing about it, but it's
Speaker 2: not like we're that far apart in how much we
Speaker 2: perceive them as a threat. Logan, I have won for you, Carson,
Speaker 2: I think you had Miami at ten, correct?
Speaker 3: Correct?
Speaker 2: I had Miami at ten as well, just an obligatory
Speaker 2: I had them and the Warriors just kind of share
Speaker 2: that ten spot is like a like we respect you
Speaker 2: by the time a lifetime achievement. So and here's the thing.
Speaker 2: The thing with Miami for me, Jimmy's having a war
Speaker 2: season than he did last year. BAM's having a war
Speaker 2: season than he did last year. There's this perception, and
Speaker 2: it's understood, but there's this perception that the Heat like
Speaker 2: just come alive every postseason and go on a run.
Speaker 2: And they've been really good. But there also was twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one when they went and just got swept. So
Speaker 2: like it like what ends up happening is, in my opinion,
Speaker 2: like they can expose somebody that is not a real
Speaker 2: championship contender, but they when they run into a truly
Speaker 2: great team, they tend to lose.
Speaker 3: Who do they lose to?
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty one the team that won the title,
Speaker 2: right they twenty twenty two they lost to that Celtics
Speaker 2: team that had a two to one lead in the finals,
Speaker 2: they lose to the Nuggets. Like to me, they're like
Speaker 2: basically like the bouncer at the club for the championship room,
Speaker 2: like you got to, you gotta. They're not good enough
Speaker 2: to actually beat any of those teams, but any team
Speaker 2: that runs into them that is fraudulent, they will expose.
Speaker 2: And So while I look at them as a legitimate
Speaker 2: threat to like, you know, let's say Milwaukee ends up
Speaker 2: at two and Miami ends up at seven, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I viewed them as a threat, but I think putting
Speaker 2: them over some of the teams you have them.
Speaker 3: Above, Logan, I struggle with.
Speaker 2: Like seven is high and like Bams still can't make
Speaker 2: anything around the basket. Yeah, I get it, he's making
Speaker 2: a few more threes this year than he did last year.
Speaker 2: But like I just but yeah, I'm not I don't
Speaker 2: necessarily view Miami as a substantial threat this year. So
Speaker 2: Logan defends yourself, why is Miami up at number seven?
Speaker 1: Miami to be just has such a high floor that
Speaker 1: I can bank on. And I want to be clear too,
Speaker 1: I think Bam is the biggest swing factor for the
Speaker 1: Heat once again this postseason. What Bam brings them offensively
Speaker 1: is going to determine their ceiling because it's ugly man like.
Speaker 1: And it's frustrating with Bam because he's such a talented,
Speaker 1: like athletic guy. But there's just possessions man in games
Speaker 1: to games where like, I just don't ever think BAM's
Speaker 1: gonna fully figure it out offensively where he's it'll be
Speaker 1: early in the shot clock, man. And it's situational too,
Speaker 1: because some of these games it's without Jimmy or it's
Speaker 1: without heroes. So Bam already has this extra expected load
Speaker 1: on him. But you know, he's taking a post turnaround
Speaker 1: fade away with sixteen seconds on the shot clock, and
Speaker 1: it's like, Bam, that's not a good look. Is still
Speaker 1: the biggest swing guy for Miami. Uh the reason they're
Speaker 1: so high For me, I know that I just said
Speaker 1: this about Phoenix, like their track record in the regular season,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to bank on it, but Miami has
Speaker 1: shown us that they are a different team when the
Speaker 1: playoffs come. And Jimmy Butler, despite him having another injury
Speaker 1: riddled season, another you know downtick in the regular season
Speaker 1: where he's not playing up the standard, Jimmy Butler is
Speaker 1: one of the greatest playoff risers of all time.
Speaker 3: I believe his.
Speaker 1: Career stats twenty six or twenty four and six, twenty
Speaker 1: six and four, one of those stat lines. And the
Speaker 1: list of the guys to do that as efficiently as
Speaker 1: Jimmy has done is like one of seven players. It's
Speaker 1: like Luca kd Lebron. The list is absurd. So my
Speaker 1: fundamental belief in Miami is that Jimmy Butler is going
Speaker 1: to turn into a playoff Jimmy again, and he's gonna
Speaker 1: do it. I just have this faith in Jimmy Butler
Speaker 1: that he is gonna rise. And I know he's thirty five,
Speaker 1: I know he's getting up there in age, but Jimmy
Speaker 1: scares me. Jimmy scare There's me the way that a
Speaker 1: lot of other players in the playoff field don't, where
Speaker 1: he can exert this level of control on the game
Speaker 1: that other players can't, where he's getting into the teeth
Speaker 1: of the defense, he is setting up shots for his teammates.
Speaker 1: He is just grinding out these games and controlling them
Speaker 1: on both sides of the floor, where that's what he's
Speaker 1: doing offensively and then defensively. This is one of the
Speaker 1: best duos point blank period on the planet on how
Speaker 1: Jimmy can take away the opposing team's best perimeter creator.
Speaker 1: And then Bam on the inside is just a havocreaker.
Speaker 1: So I get a really high baseline with those two guys.
Speaker 1: I get Eric Spolster in that dark voodoo magic that
Speaker 1: he puts on other NBA teams. And then the crux
Speaker 1: for why I have this team higher than other contenders,
Speaker 1: I just think Miami's better than they've been in years previous.
Speaker 1: The Terry Rozier trade matters to me. Rosier may not
Speaker 1: be at his absolute apex here, but to me, he's
Speaker 1: a much better shot creator than they've had in years previous.
Speaker 1: You're asking Kyle Lowry and Gave Vincent to play well
Speaker 1: above their means. I think Duncan Robinson has gotten better.
Speaker 1: You know, hopefully Toddler hero is available, and I think
Speaker 1: they're better on the wings. Like I like Jovic, I
Speaker 1: really like Triple J. They're just a better team than
Speaker 1: last year, and last year they went to the finals. Now,
Speaker 1: as we all know, it took a bunch of outlier
Speaker 1: stuff for Miami to handle business forty five percent in
Speaker 1: the first round against Milwaukee from deep forty three percent
Speaker 1: against Boston, and you know, Caleb Martin just went dumb,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean just turned into Andrew Tony for
Speaker 1: a series. It's the track record, man, it's I believe
Speaker 1: in Jimmy and Bam and Spoe. I think they're a
Speaker 1: better team than last year. I think they've got more
Speaker 1: shock creation. I think their wing depth is better. I
Speaker 1: just think Miami's better than last year. And their defense
Speaker 1: gives me such a high base line and it's honestly
Speaker 1: the X factor for me. I think you're right, Jason.
Speaker 1: I don't view Miami as a real title contender. I
Speaker 1: don't think they can win the championship. But can they
Speaker 1: get to the Eastern Conference Final on some BS again?
Speaker 3: Probably?
Speaker 1: I mean they've done it before. Like That's the thing
Speaker 1: about Miami is that if you have one flaw, if
Speaker 1: you have that one, you know, uh chink in your armor,
Speaker 1: Spoe is gonna find it and he is gonna pick
Speaker 1: and he is gonna prod and he is gonna find
Speaker 1: that and he is gonna pick at it the entire
Speaker 1: series and decimate you with it. You cannot have a
Speaker 1: flaw where Miami is going to find it and expose it,
Speaker 1: and I do think some outlier things have to happen.
Speaker 1: If Jimmy has a bad series, the heater cooked, if
Speaker 1: the Heat shoot poorly from behind the arc, the heater cooked,
Speaker 1: They're probably gonna get bounced in the first round. But
Speaker 1: Miami also has the advantage where again, if you have
Speaker 1: that one fatal flaw, I think Miami can expose it
Speaker 1: better than other teams. So that's where I fall down
Speaker 1: on them. I don't really view Miami as a team
Speaker 1: that can win the finals, but I think any series
Speaker 1: they can beat a team, and I do think they
Speaker 1: can get back to the Eastern Conference Finals again this year.
Speaker 1: So look, guys, I'm just not getting burned again. Man,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna the Miami Heater gonna go on a
Speaker 1: run again this year, and I'm not gonna be the
Speaker 1: jackass that left them off my top ten contenders list.
Speaker 1: So I just I'm never gonna count Miami and Jimmy out. Man.
Speaker 1: I believe in them too.
Speaker 3: That's what the ten spot is for Logan, That's what
Speaker 3: I'm saying.
Speaker 4: You had them at six, you don't have to go
Speaker 4: that far.
Speaker 2: So so I think we more or less agree Logan,
Speaker 2: like I if I had different contender lists, which is
Speaker 2: like more likely to get out of the first round,
Speaker 2: Like the Heat would be pretty high on that list,
Speaker 2: because I agree with you, like they're just I have
Speaker 2: such a belief in Jimmy and Bam as kind of
Speaker 2: defensive weapons, and Eric Spolster is just schematic competence, is
Speaker 2: like literally better than everybody in the league by a
Speaker 2: sizable gap. Like there's so many different elements that make
Speaker 2: them a threat. But like I would put them on
Speaker 2: the list of teams that will be in the playoffs
Speaker 2: this year that literally cannot win the title, like they
Speaker 2: they do not have the horses, even if like one
Speaker 2: or two of the higher level contenders got eliminated. I
Speaker 2: just don't I just don't think they.
Speaker 3: Have the horses.
Speaker 2: Like even let's say Denver and Boston both got knocked
Speaker 2: out by some sort of fluke, one of these other
Speaker 2: teams Dallas, the Clippers, the Suns, the Lakers, there, Thunder,
Speaker 2: the Bucks, one of them is gonna be a real team,
Speaker 2: you know, in the postseason, and they just wouldn't be
Speaker 2: able to get through that. And like to me, like
Speaker 2: they got to the finals into twenty twenty and got
Speaker 2: fucking smacked. Like, yeah, there was a couple games there
Speaker 2: where Jimmy went crazy, but anytime the Lakers put their
Speaker 2: foot down on their necks, they had no chance and
Speaker 2: they got blown out in what three of the six games,
Speaker 2: I think, like the last year in the finals, they
Speaker 2: had a really good performance in Game two where they
Speaker 2: finally slowed down the Yokas Murray two man game hit
Speaker 2: a bunch of threes, but they kind of got handled
Speaker 2: and every other game, like even going back to the
Speaker 2: year they lost to Boston, like they lost to Boston
Speaker 2: and they did some they dragged the series to seven,
Speaker 2: and yeah, Jimmy had a shot, but like if I
Speaker 2: remember correctly, the Celtics were up by like three possessions
Speaker 2: with like a minute and a half left, and it
Speaker 2: was just kind of classic Celtics that they toasted it off.
Speaker 2: And that also kind of felt like one of those
Speaker 2: series where like when the Celtics were bs saying the
Speaker 2: heat would get them, and then when the Celtics would engage,
Speaker 2: they'd kind of control the game. So like, I never
Speaker 2: have ever really viewed Miami as a team that was
Speaker 2: actually within reach of the trophy, and like they're older
Speaker 2: now and Jimmy has gone down a tiny level from
Speaker 2: last year. I'm just not as high on them as
Speaker 2: everyone else is. So h before we move on to
Speaker 2: the next segment, I'm gonna we'll start with you, Carson.
Speaker 3: What's your biggest gripe on my list?
Speaker 4: I don't even know if I would call it a gripe.
Speaker 4: I think this is maybe the biggest difference that we have.
Speaker 4: So you have the Clippers at four. I had them
Speaker 4: at eight. But I have very mixed feelings about the
Speaker 4: Clippers because of the ceiling that we've seen, and like,
Speaker 4: for a time I thought they were second out West,
Speaker 4: So why are they still that high for you?
Speaker 2: So I think that they were the textbook example of
Speaker 2: a team that dominated for a few months and then
Speaker 2: all their older players went into chill mode. Yeah, and like,
Speaker 2: and I think that's played a big role. They have
Speaker 2: some weaknesses. I don't think I think they more or
Speaker 2: less are as good as they're wreck shows in the
Speaker 2: sense that, like, I don't view them as in the
Speaker 2: Denver Boston tier, whereas like they literally won at a
Speaker 2: Denver Boston level for a couple of months, like they
Speaker 2: they were at that level. The thing for me with
Speaker 2: the Clippers is their weakness to me is foot speed.
Speaker 2: Like beyond Terrence Man and Russell Westbrook, most of their
Speaker 2: guys are relatively slow. James Harden pretty slow, Kawhi Leonard
Speaker 2: is not a straight line speed guy. Paul George is
Speaker 2: a finesse pull up shot maker. Zubach is not particularly slow,
Speaker 2: so like I think are particularly fast. So I think
Speaker 2: that there are certain matchups where they'll struggle, like especially
Speaker 2: teams that run a lot like they. That's why they
Speaker 2: can struggle so much in transition defense, That's why they
Speaker 2: struggle with defensive rebound like loose ball situations. They can
Speaker 2: struggle with speed. But one of their advantages is they're
Speaker 2: really strong at every position and they can get into
Speaker 2: this like physical bullyball type of game. And like, as
Speaker 2: long as Kawhi Leonard is healthy, he's still a top
Speaker 2: three or four playoff player.
Speaker 3: In the league.
Speaker 2: I like their matchup with Denver as well as having
Speaker 2: Zubach that can kind of sort of fight Jokics for
Speaker 2: position a little bit better than some of the other bigs.
Speaker 2: My thing with the Clippers is I more or less
Speaker 2: look at them as closer to the good version of
Speaker 2: them that we've seen this year as opposed to the
Speaker 2: bad version. I also think there's a good chance that
Speaker 2: Tyleru just hunts on James Harden at some point along
Speaker 2: this route and goes a different route, maybe with Russell Westbrook,
Speaker 2: and just leans into just bully ball and tries to
Speaker 2: cause all sorts of problems there. Paul George two is
Speaker 2: playing some of the best basketball of his career right
Speaker 2: now at the right time. And so if Paul George
Speaker 2: keeps that level and Kawhi comes in and brings playoff Kawhi,
Speaker 2: I think you're dealing with two top ten ish, top
Speaker 2: fifteen ish players there. So that's pretty much my point
Speaker 2: of optimism. Do you have any quick counters before we
Speaker 2: move on to Logan.
Speaker 4: Well, I just think it really depends on which version
Speaker 4: you think you're getting, because there's no question that they
Speaker 4: were a top four team for more than a third
Speaker 4: of this season. My concerns are just number one, why's
Speaker 4: health at this stage in the season, Like he's been
Speaker 4: so healthy throughout this year, and I'm confident that they're
Speaker 4: just being conservative and careful, But like him missing six games,
Speaker 4: playoff Kawhi is so unbelievably good. But if you get
Speaker 4: him for two games, like you did against the Suns
Speaker 4: last year, it doesn't matter. He can soundly outplay Kid,
Speaker 4: he soundly outplay Devin Booker. If you only get him
Speaker 4: for two games, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: And you lose.
Speaker 4: My other concern is just how bad Harden has been,
Speaker 4: because I think there was a stretch of this year
Speaker 4: where he was playing really well and he was taking
Speaker 4: advantage of I'm drawing your third best perimeter defender, and
Speaker 4: he was facilitating so well. And the facilitating hasn't really changed.
Speaker 4: It's just been awful shot making and the fact that
Speaker 4: he really can't pressure the rim in the same way
Speaker 4: and he can't finish around the rim in the same way,
Speaker 4: which is why he had so many clunkers in last
Speaker 4: year's playoffs. Of course, his job was way harder, but
Speaker 4: there's still a volatility there and an inconsistency that concerns me.
Speaker 4: And his last fifteen he's like thirteen points per game
Speaker 4: on fifty one percent true shooting. So it's just tough
Speaker 4: because the vibes are so bad and they have been
Speaker 4: a disaster defensively for two plus months. I agree with you.
Speaker 4: To me, that is mostly Hey, our three best players
Speaker 4: are in their early in mid thirties. They're not going
Speaker 4: to lock in for this stretch of the season. But
Speaker 4: I still don't love their ceiling there. I think they
Speaker 4: have the tools to be a good defensive team, not
Speaker 4: a great one, But I do look at the boxes
Speaker 4: they check. If Harden is playing well, three high end creators,
Speaker 4: if Kawi is out there and healthy, like a top
Speaker 4: five playoff performer sort of guy. They do have the
Speaker 4: physicality element, but then also this dynamic three point shooting,
Speaker 4: Like that's why I really like this team for a stretch,
Speaker 4: But I just worry about all their worst tendencies kind
Speaker 4: of popping up right before the most important time of year.
Speaker 2: You could not be more accurate about that last part.
Speaker 2: Like every every like canned cliche Clipper hate take has
Speaker 2: like mosen to the surface here down the stretch of
Speaker 2: the season. My one last bit of Clipper's optimism. They've
Speaker 2: got a lot of playoff risers. Kawhi is a playoff
Speaker 2: riser in my opinion, and then Terrence Man is a
Speaker 2: playoff riser in my opinion. His specific archetype, in my opinion,
Speaker 2: is one of the most valuable playoff archetypes. It's like
Speaker 2: that Bruce Brown, like Alex Caruso, Terrence Man's like six
Speaker 2: five sixty six guard that's really strong and stocky, that
Speaker 2: just is an athletic wrecking ball on both ends of
Speaker 2: the floor. And then even Russell Westbrook is one of
Speaker 2: those guys were like in the prime of his career,
Speaker 2: I feel like he was a big time playoff dropper
Speaker 2: because the ball was in his hands so much and
Speaker 2: he just was such a bad offensive player when he'd
Speaker 2: run into like real playoff defense that could expose his limitations.
Speaker 2: But as in this phase of his career, I almost
Speaker 2: view as a playoff riser because all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: he goes from being like, you know, this kind of
Speaker 2: like helter skelter, inconsistent effort guy to like, now he's
Speaker 2: one of the best athletes on the floor, and he's
Speaker 2: playing his ass off and the ball's not in his
Speaker 2: hands that much and he's just doing all this dirty
Speaker 2: work stuff. So that's kind of another point of optimism
Speaker 2: for me. But again we're also splitting hairs when we're
Speaker 2: getting here.
Speaker 3: You also have.
Speaker 4: James Harden, though how many playoff risers does he offset,
Speaker 4: which is dropping.
Speaker 3: We were at least too.
Speaker 2: Paul George has his history as well, although I think
Speaker 2: he's better now than he used to be. All right, Logan,
Speaker 2: what's your biggest bone to pick with my list?
Speaker 1: Oh no, we don't even have to we don't even
Speaker 1: have to go in a different direction here. I want
Speaker 1: to talk about the coach too, and we're gonna go more.
Speaker 1: We're gonna go more in depth later with Dallas. Jason,
Speaker 1: I think you hit on the key point on why
Speaker 1: on what LA needs to do to move up on
Speaker 1: my list, because I had them really low. I think
Speaker 1: if he comes out with a couple of stinkers, I
Speaker 1: think you have to bench James Harden, and I think
Speaker 1: LA has the depth where they can where they have
Speaker 1: guys that can fill in for Harden, Terrence Man, they
Speaker 1: have Russell Westbrook, they have Norman Powell. Like Harden has stunk.
Speaker 1: Like I've read off these numbers over the past fifteen games,
Speaker 1: he has been comically bad. Sixteen percent from the top
Speaker 1: of the key, thirty three percent on wing threes, thirty
Speaker 1: one percent in the corner, and the most alarming numbers me,
Speaker 1: he is shooting twenty seven percent on catch and shoot threes,
Speaker 1: twenty one percent on open threes in thirty one percent
Speaker 1: on wide open threes. If we get this James Harden
Speaker 1: in the playoffs, he is unplayable, Like he is going
Speaker 1: to well, I walked into this one. He's gonna sink
Speaker 1: the Clippers boat. Fellas, he is gonna sink the Clippers boat.
Speaker 1: Like that's a real difference maker to me, because, like
Speaker 1: you said, Jason, Paul George's capital B ballin right now.
Speaker 1: This may be the best version of Paul George I've seen.
Speaker 1: I just trust Kawhi Leonard to do his thing. I
Speaker 1: have zero faith in James Harden, and so if he
Speaker 1: comes out of the gate, I think in game one
Speaker 1: or two. You know what, Jason, I didn't even think
Speaker 1: about that, Like James Harden's name brings such a you know,
Speaker 1: and he just has such weight to it. You know,
Speaker 1: he's a former NBA MVP. I didn't even think about
Speaker 1: the Clippers potentially benching him, considering that they trade it.
Speaker 1: I think that's what you gotta do. I think that
Speaker 1: changes my outlook completely for LA, Like James Harden has
Speaker 1: been that bad, that's why they're that low on my lipt,
Speaker 1: Like he sours the Clippers for me. But if they
Speaker 1: turn to other guards who I trust and they have
Speaker 1: the depth to do it, that changes the clips for me.
Speaker 1: But that's why the Clippers, I think they were nine
Speaker 1: on my list all about Harden. I just have so
Speaker 1: little faith in Harden turning it around or looking like
Speaker 1: any different version of a player. They need him to
Speaker 1: get buckets, and he's just he's not gonna pull his weight.
Speaker 2: I think you have to try with Harden and then
Speaker 2: kind of make a read game to game because when
Speaker 2: he does have it going, he's a major plus on
Speaker 2: the offensive end of the floor. But I agree with
Speaker 2: you like there, I've thought, like I've seen lineups in
Speaker 2: for instance, just the the game the other night against
Speaker 2: the the Suns where like you have Paul George, Terrence
Speaker 2: Man and Russell Westbrook all on the floor at the
Speaker 2: same time and they're switching, and like there was this
Speaker 2: possession where the Sons ran like three screening actions and
Speaker 2: then it ended up with the result was Terrence Man
Speaker 2: on Bradley Beal at the top of the key, and
Speaker 2: you could tell Terrence Bradley Beal was like uh, and
Speaker 2: he just ended up throwing a random swing pass that
Speaker 2: just went out of bounce. And I'm like, I'm like okay,
Speaker 2: like this is this is the advantage is like they
Speaker 2: can they can bring layers of physicality that a lot
Speaker 2: of other teams can't can't bring. But I do think,
Speaker 2: I do think you have to try with James Harden.
Speaker 2: All Right, we spent way too long in that segment,
Speaker 2: so we're gonna move on
Speaker 1: The volume.