WEBVTT - Daniel Penny Freed After Killing Jordan Neely

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<v Speaker 1>Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to

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<v Speaker 1>welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our

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<v Speaker 1>mission is to foster allyship empathy and understanding. I'm your host, Rams' job.

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<v Speaker 2>He is Rams' job. I am q Ward. You are

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<v Speaker 2>tuned in to Civic Cipher.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to you. We appreciate you checking us out

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<v Speaker 1>and rocking with us every week. And uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of times we'll sit down, we'll put the

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<v Speaker 1>show together, we'll strategize, weile brainstorm, will come to a consensus,

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<v Speaker 1>and then we will bring you the stories that we

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<v Speaker 1>feel help support the data and make things real for

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<v Speaker 1>you or support the experiences that we're saying that we

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<v Speaker 1>have as marginalized communities in this country. But today it

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<v Speaker 1>is less a consensus and more some things that really

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<v Speaker 1>stood out to Q. Q sent over a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>things that he wanted to talk about, and I agreed

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<v Speaker 1>that we should have these conversations, and so we would

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<v Speaker 1>like for you to stick around because today's show is

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<v Speaker 1>executive produced by q Ward. We're going to be talking

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<v Speaker 1>about Daniel Penny being acquitted of the chokehold death of

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<v Speaker 1>Jordan Neely in New York. That's been something that has

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<v Speaker 1>been discussed for many months now. But obviously the acquittal

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<v Speaker 1>itself is indicative of a pattern of treatment or mistreatment,

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<v Speaker 1>I should say, of black people in this country. And

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to explain our take on that. Q obviously

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<v Speaker 1>is going to be starting us off there, and then

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to also discuss how it just came to

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<v Speaker 1>light that Florida police actually made and sold crack to

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<v Speaker 1>black people in the eighties and then convicted them of

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<v Speaker 1>crimes for buying the crack, and so that is entrapment

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<v Speaker 1>of the highest order. So all that and so much

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<v Speaker 1>more to stick around for. But before we get there,

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<v Speaker 1>let's start off with some ebony excellence, shall we? I

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<v Speaker 1>think we shall. I'll take this one go for today's

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<v Speaker 1>ABNY Excellence is sponsored by Actively Black. There's greatness in

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<v Speaker 1>our DNA. Visit actively black dot com. And this comes

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<v Speaker 1>from the Grio. On Monday, December ninth, the Critics Choice

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<v Speaker 1>Association gathered black stars across television and film to celebrate

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<v Speaker 1>black storytelling within entertainment. The Critics Choice Association seventh Annual

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<v Speaker 1>Celebration of Black Cinema and Television Awards honored fourteen actors, producers, directors,

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<v Speaker 1>and composers, including Cynthia Rebo, Regina King, Tyler Perry, au Janee.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that? Did I say that?

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<v Speaker 1>Right?

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<v Speaker 2>I think that is a Jane Yeah, Ellis Taylor or

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<v Speaker 2>on Janey.

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<v Speaker 1>On Jeanney Ellis Taylor. Either way quote. We are proud

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<v Speaker 1>to recognize this year's outstanding group of honorees, said Sean Edwards,

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<v Speaker 1>executive producer and writer for the Celebration of Black Cinema

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<v Speaker 1>and Television. As previously reported by The Grio, twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 1>four was an exceptional year. There were so many great

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<v Speaker 1>stories about the black experience, and this event is a

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<v Speaker 1>celebration of the power of those stories which have shaped

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<v Speaker 1>and moved the entertainment industry. It's a true acknowledgment of

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<v Speaker 1>the profound impact of black cinema and television on today's

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<v Speaker 1>culture and society. During the evening, hosted by comedian Jay Ferrell,

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<v Speaker 1>Tyler Perry received the Icon Award for his career accomplishments

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<v Speaker 1>as a self made media mobile, Although the actor and

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<v Speaker 1>filmmaker says he was honored to be recognized for his

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<v Speaker 1>twenty four films, twenty stage plays, seventeen television shows and

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<v Speaker 1>the founding of Tyler Perry Studios in Atlanta. Perry admitted

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<v Speaker 1>his struggle with the title icon, and so this was

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<v Speaker 1>really a celebration of Tyler Perry. This is kind of

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<v Speaker 1>how the article came down. And we are able to

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<v Speaker 1>highlight black excellence once a week on this show. And

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know that we've ever taken the time to

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<v Speaker 1>really shout out Tyler Perry. So this is kind of

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<v Speaker 1>one moment where we get to say, hey, you're doing

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<v Speaker 1>something and something is not nothing, and hey, we applaud

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<v Speaker 1>you for that. So yeah, shout out to Tyler Perry.

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<v Speaker 2>Shout out to Tyler Perry.

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<v Speaker 1>Man. All right, So Daniel Penny, just for folks that

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<v Speaker 1>are just coming to this story, for folks that didn't

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<v Speaker 1>that missed it.

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<v Speaker 2>In the news, not everybody will just know that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, there's a story that was widely covered. Of

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<v Speaker 1>course we covered it here on this show. This was

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<v Speaker 1>an incident in New York City. There was a homeless man,

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<v Speaker 1>a homeless black man. He was a Michael Jackson impersonator.

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<v Speaker 1>Was when he was alive. He was a Michael Jackson impersonator,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was a street performer. And this is how

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<v Speaker 1>he made, you know, money, He performed in Times Square.

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<v Speaker 1>For those that have been to Times Square, you know

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<v Speaker 1>that it's a there's a lot of street performers. There's

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of people in costumes and they work for tips.

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<v Speaker 1>And also, I don't want homeless to make you think

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<v Speaker 1>of like the worst possible circumstances. There are a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people who are temporarily homeless or a lot you

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<v Speaker 1>know that there's a lot of prejudices I think that

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<v Speaker 1>come with that.

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<v Speaker 2>Term I was once homeless. If that helps come that

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<v Speaker 2>for you a little bit, that's that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So that's a good way to say it. But

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<v Speaker 1>the fact is is that this is how you would

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<v Speaker 1>remember the story. He was a homeless Michael Jackson impersonator.

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<v Speaker 1>He was a very thin man. He had his very

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<v Speaker 1>selt figure. Of course he was able to impersonate Michael Jackson.

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<v Speaker 1>He was having a mental episode, which we will get

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<v Speaker 1>into in the article that we will share from. I

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<v Speaker 1>think this was NBC News where we got this, and

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<v Speaker 1>he was going through an episode on the train and

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<v Speaker 1>this gentleman, Daniel Penny, decided to step in and restrain

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<v Speaker 1>him as as Neely was having his breakdown, yelling at

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<v Speaker 1>passengers on the train saying, you know, I don't care

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<v Speaker 1>if I live or die. I think he was talking

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<v Speaker 1>about him being hungry, you know, all this sort of stuff, right,

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<v Speaker 1>So he's having a mental breakdown on the train. The

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<v Speaker 1>Daniel Penny gentleman steps in, decides to be the hero,

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<v Speaker 1>takes some vigilante justice, restrains him in a chokehold for

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<v Speaker 1>about six minutes, after which Jordan Neely succumbed. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>he died because he was choked to death. And when

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<v Speaker 1>we learned about.

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<v Speaker 2>This story, obviously this was very sad.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, there are people who will say, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and they and did say, well, he was stepping in,

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<v Speaker 1>he was being.

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<v Speaker 2>A true patriot.

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<v Speaker 1>He was protecting the public from this nuisance from any

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<v Speaker 1>potential harm. I think the guy probably weighed one hundred pounds,

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred and ten pounds something like that.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>Not that part matter, It doesn't, but you know what

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, Like this big marine guy steps in and

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<v Speaker 1>his you know whatever. But there are people on the

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<v Speaker 1>other side who feel like this was a justifiable act

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<v Speaker 1>and it's just unfortunate that Jordan lost his life, but

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<v Speaker 1>that this Daniel Penny guy was protecting the public. That

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<v Speaker 1>is their perspective and opinion on it.

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<v Speaker 2>Even worse, their perspective and opinion is that he's a hero. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>And I saw people praising God that he was not convicted, right.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that they got chills and they were they

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<v Speaker 2>felt that good that he got off. That he's a

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<v Speaker 2>hero and a patriot.

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<v Speaker 1>And yeah, so here's what I want to do. Let

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<v Speaker 1>me finish painting this picture for you so that it

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<v Speaker 1>brings you all the way up to speed in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of what happened, and then we're going to discuss it. So,

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<v Speaker 1>Daniel Penny was acquitted Monday of criminally legit homicide in

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<v Speaker 1>the chokehold death of Jordan Neely, a thirty year old

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<v Speaker 1>homeless man with a history of mental illness whose final

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<v Speaker 1>moments on a New York subway train were captured on

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<v Speaker 1>bystander video that set off weeks of protest and drew

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<v Speaker 1>national attention. Before he encountered Penny, Neely, a former Michael

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<v Speaker 1>Jackson impersonator, ranted about being hungry and thirsty and said

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<v Speaker 1>he wanted to return to jail and didn't care if

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<v Speaker 1>he lived or died. Witnesses testified Penny twenty six, a

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<v Speaker 1>former marine and Long Island native, placed Neely in a

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<v Speaker 1>chokehold that prosecutors said lasted almost six minutes. The decision

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<v Speaker 1>on the fifth day of deliberations came after the jury

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<v Speaker 1>deadlocked Friday on the more serious charge of manslaughter, leading

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<v Speaker 1>the judge to dismiss it. Penny faced up to four

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<v Speaker 1>years in prison. During their trial, Penny's attorneys told jurors

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<v Speaker 1>that he stepped in because he believed Neelie might attack

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<v Speaker 1>other passengers, and he intended only to restrain him until

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<v Speaker 1>police arrived, which Penny also told police. They also argued

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<v Speaker 1>that Neely was not killed by the chokehold, and that

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<v Speaker 1>it was impossible to measure how much pressure Penny had

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<v Speaker 1>applied enough to kill somebody. I'm sure, but that's not

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<v Speaker 1>their position. I'll continue. A forensic pathologist hired by the

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<v Speaker 1>defense testified that Neely died from a combination of his schizophrenia,

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<v Speaker 1>synthetic marijuana, sickle cell trait, and the struggle from being

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<v Speaker 1>in Penny's restraint. But the medical examiner who performed the

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<v Speaker 1>autopsy on Neely, doctor Cynthia Harris, again, Yeah, you're right,

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<v Speaker 1>let me go back, and I think that we should

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<v Speaker 1>break this whole thing down here.

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<v Speaker 2>That part deserves some extra attention. Say that part slowly

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<v Speaker 2>and all I got you.

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<v Speaker 1>A forensic pathologist hired by the defense testified that Neely

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<v Speaker 1>died from a combination of his schizophrenia, synthetic marijuana, sickle

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<v Speaker 1>cell trait, and the struggle from being in Pennies restraints.

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<v Speaker 2>So we're clear. Yeah, Daniel Penny's attorneys the defense I want.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want you guys to hear defense and think

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<v Speaker 2>anything else. The attorneys for the guy accused of killing

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<v Speaker 2>the gentleman that we watched him kill on video, his

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<v Speaker 2>attorneys aren't arguing, and a pathologist that they hired supporting

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<v Speaker 2>their argument that all of these other things, in combination

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<v Speaker 2>with their client choking him for six minutes is why

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<v Speaker 2>he's no longer with this.

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<v Speaker 1>This is insulting that it won't even like accept responsibility

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<v Speaker 1>for it. I mean, I think it's in that space

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<v Speaker 1>that that failure to take responsibility, to take accountability, in

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<v Speaker 1>that space is where.

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<v Speaker 2>A pattern that we've called out on this show. My

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<v Speaker 2>client did nothing wrong is always their position, not my

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<v Speaker 2>client doesn't deserve the worst pot outcomes or the worst sentencing. No,

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<v Speaker 2>my client didn't do anything. We know you have a video.

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<v Speaker 2>We saw the video too. We saw the same video

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<v Speaker 2>you saw he died from. And we still think it'sophrenia

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<v Speaker 2>a sickle cell trait, not sickle cell a trait. The

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<v Speaker 2>next thing you said move me even more though.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, so now I'm gonna continue. But the medical

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<v Speaker 1>examiner who performed the autopsy on neily pause.

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<v Speaker 2>The medical examiner typically that works for the state that

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<v Speaker 2>performed the autopsy, very important data, okay, not the pathologists that.

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<v Speaker 1>The defense hired. This is the person who examined the

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<v Speaker 1>body after it was brought to them.

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<v Speaker 2>And determined the cause of death. That's typically what the

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<v Speaker 2>medical examiner performing an autopsy does. That's typically the reason

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<v Speaker 2>they do it.

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<v Speaker 1>And this is the and I'm glad you said that

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<v Speaker 1>because I want you to hear this next part in

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<v Speaker 1>her name. The medical examiner, doctor Cynthia Harris, told jurors

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<v Speaker 1>it was in her it was her medical opinion quote

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<v Speaker 1>that there are no alternative reasonable explanations for his death

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<v Speaker 1>and that those proposed by the defense were so improbable

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<v Speaker 1>that it stands shoulder to shoulder with impossibility.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, And I keep saying, defense because that's how people

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<v Speaker 2>are used to hearing that word with regards to criminal trials. Defense.

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<v Speaker 2>When you say defense, people hear sports or they might

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<v Speaker 2>think something else. But Rameses is saying that word properly

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<v Speaker 2>is just typically in the context of a legal case

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<v Speaker 2>or hearing you hear defense. Yeah, the attorneys for the

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<v Speaker 2>person who committed the crime on the video that we

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<v Speaker 2>all saw.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I think that it's in that space where

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<v Speaker 1>we find the why. Why was the Black Lives Matter

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<v Speaker 1>movement and born? Now, this is not me talking to

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<v Speaker 1>people that understand our plight. This is me talking to

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<v Speaker 1>either those people who need to have conversations at the

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<v Speaker 1>dinner table with their racist uncles or you know, neighbors.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm trying to give you this game. Or if

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<v Speaker 1>you happen to be one of those people that thinks

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<v Speaker 1>that this show is just completely baseless and whatever, but

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<v Speaker 1>you happen to listen every week, we appreciate you. This

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<v Speaker 1>is for you, just so you understand the why behind it. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>Q made a great point. You could say, hey, look,

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<v Speaker 1>this was an accident. My client didn't intend for this

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<v Speaker 1>to happen. We don't think that our client should be

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<v Speaker 1>sentenced too harshly, and that would conform with the reality

0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:54.199
<v Speaker 1>that we all share. But oftentimes, when it's a white

0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:58.800
<v Speaker 1>perpetrator and a black victim, white people get to fly

0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:03.920
<v Speaker 1>above of even a shared reality, and it's insulting and

0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:09.760
<v Speaker 1>hurtful because in this case you see it on full display.

0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:18.040
<v Speaker 1>The defense said it was a combination of schizophrenia, synthetic marijuana,

0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:23.040
<v Speaker 1>marijuana in the history of marijuana has never killed anybody,

0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:28.200
<v Speaker 1>and a sickle cell trait.

0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:30.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're saying this young man is patient zero for

0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:34.840
<v Speaker 2>death by marijuana right now.

0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:38.240
<v Speaker 1>Again, that flies above indeed, the shared reality that we

0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.440
<v Speaker 1>saw on video. To Q's point of him getting choked

0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:45.520
<v Speaker 1>to death, Okay, all the things were true prior to

0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:47.840
<v Speaker 1>him getting choked to death, and then when he gets

0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:49.400
<v Speaker 1>choked to death, then they want to point at all

0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:53.960
<v Speaker 1>these other things like, Okay, well he smoked legal the

0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:59.760
<v Speaker 1>synthetic marijuana or whatever. You know. He may as well said, hey,

0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:02.920
<v Speaker 1>he he had a cigarette when he was at sixteen

0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.080
<v Speaker 1>with his friends, or he crossed the street funny or whatever,

0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:08.120
<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean. And it's that part that's

0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:14.800
<v Speaker 1>so insulting and hurtful because we can see that you

0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.880
<v Speaker 1>don't even need to have a defense based in reality

0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.080
<v Speaker 1>in order to get off right. And so the idea

0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:23.320
<v Speaker 1>of black lives matter for folks that don't agree with

0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:26.280
<v Speaker 1>the premise of this show, For people that throw Chicago,

0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:28.640
<v Speaker 1>why do you care about police violence? Why do you

0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:31.760
<v Speaker 1>care about systemic oppression? Why don't you care about Chicago?

0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:35.960
<v Speaker 1>In Chicago, if a black person kills another black person,

0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:40.600
<v Speaker 1>there is at least the potential that somebody will be

0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:42.520
<v Speaker 1>held accountable, that there might be coming.

0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.200
<v Speaker 2>If in Chicago, a black man kills a black man

0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.880
<v Speaker 2>on camera is then apprehended and arrested safely and not

0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:54.560
<v Speaker 2>gunned down, it's going to jail. That's the whole story.

0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:59.320
<v Speaker 1>Boom And when the police do it, or when apparently

0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.440
<v Speaker 1>this guy Dan Annual Penny does it, or when or

0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Scores was the kid's name, Kyle ritten the house? Yeah,

0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:06.960
<v Speaker 1>all that, all that.

0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.000
<v Speaker 2>When they look like that and they go out and

0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:12.440
<v Speaker 2>kill people for whatever their mental crusade is, and the

0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.160
<v Speaker 2>reason that they hold up their fists and tell the

0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:17.680
<v Speaker 2>public they were there to protect. They get to go home,

0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.080
<v Speaker 2>some of them get to go them tours and sign

0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:21.360
<v Speaker 2>autographs and take pictures.

0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:25.640
<v Speaker 1>There it is, and so you can appreciate how this

0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.960
<v Speaker 1>is very hurtful. And the thing is you might think that,

0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:32.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, for folks that disagree, you might think we're

0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:35.760
<v Speaker 1>cherry picking these stories. These are sensational headlines that we're picking,

0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.240
<v Speaker 1>blah blah blah whatever. But again, this is a data

0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:43.960
<v Speaker 1>driven program, and the data supports the outcomes that we

0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.160
<v Speaker 1>choose to share with you on the show. These outcomes,

0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.520
<v Speaker 1>these stories give you insight into the data. This makes

0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.080
<v Speaker 1>the data real for long time listeners to the show

0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:58.400
<v Speaker 1>that know that to be true about this program. So

0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:01.840
<v Speaker 1>now you begin to understand and the push behind the

0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.960
<v Speaker 1>whole Black Lives Matter movement in twenty It started in

0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.520
<v Speaker 1>twenty twelve, be honest with you, but in twenty twenty

0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:17.440
<v Speaker 1>when it became more visible that certain people can harm

0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:21.959
<v Speaker 1>black and brown bodies and get away with it. And

0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:25.520
<v Speaker 1>it's like they're playing in our faces. Like you said,

0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:27.880
<v Speaker 1>we know you saw the video, but what you saw

0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:32.240
<v Speaker 1>you didn't see. Now here's why we there's this movement

0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:35.000
<v Speaker 1>that says black lives matter. Q doesn't like when I

0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:36.479
<v Speaker 1>do this, I'm going to be very careful how I

0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:42.399
<v Speaker 1>say this. Change. Jordan Neely, the person who was choked

0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:46.720
<v Speaker 1>to death on that subway. Change Jordan Neely to a

0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:52.959
<v Speaker 1>white person. I could go into more detail to help

0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:55.639
<v Speaker 1>you picture it, but pick your favorite white person. Change

0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Jordan Neely to that person, same story as a mental breakdown.

0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:03.240
<v Speaker 1>Is hungry saying he's hungry, having a you know, he's

0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:07.280
<v Speaker 1>fed up, having a moment whatever, and he gets choked

0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:11.480
<v Speaker 1>to death. Does this story happen the same way? Does

0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:15.040
<v Speaker 1>this person Daniel Penny get off Scott free? Does the

0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:16.960
<v Speaker 1>defense get to plan our face saying, well, it was

0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:20.560
<v Speaker 1>a combination of a sickle cell trait and an other thing,

0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.199
<v Speaker 1>and well, you know, he didn't actually kill him. This

0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:28.480
<v Speaker 1>guy was already you know. Does that happen? Or does

0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.960
<v Speaker 1>the story not happen? And the mental breakdown continues to

0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:35.320
<v Speaker 1>happen for another forty seconds until the train gets to

0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.480
<v Speaker 1>the next stop. The white person gets to get off

0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:40.960
<v Speaker 1>the train and go on about their lives until their

0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:43.040
<v Speaker 1>mental episode is over, until they get something to eat,

0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.840
<v Speaker 1>find a place to sit down, relax and recalibrate, and

0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:49.960
<v Speaker 1>then nothing to see here, which is more likely because

0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:53.240
<v Speaker 1>I can tell you what the data supports, So now

0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.160
<v Speaker 1>you have some insight into, at least for me, why

0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:57.760
<v Speaker 1>this is such a hurtful thing. I know that you

0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:00.360
<v Speaker 1>had a lot more to contribute, but I just wanted

0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:01.320
<v Speaker 1>to bring folks up to speak.

0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:14.120
<v Speaker 2>I try to not allow my emotions to completely take

0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:17.679
<v Speaker 2>over when we're doing the show, because it would make

0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:23.600
<v Speaker 2>me a more calloused, more cold, less empathetic person. Because

0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:25.320
<v Speaker 2>we're too informed, We have too much in the way

0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:27.439
<v Speaker 2>of information. We see too many stories, we know too

0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:30.479
<v Speaker 2>many outcomes, and we have the data to support. So

0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:34.200
<v Speaker 2>how I feel is completely justified. But what I try

0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:37.679
<v Speaker 2>to do is I try really hard to try to

0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:42.600
<v Speaker 2>see things from someone else's perspective, those who might care

0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:46.359
<v Speaker 2>about this person, those who might not want their brother

0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:49.199
<v Speaker 2>or their son, or their dad or their husband to

0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:56.720
<v Speaker 2>go to jail forever for protecting the public right. And

0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:02.040
<v Speaker 2>in that case, I can see how a family member

0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:04.560
<v Speaker 2>or somebody that knows this person personally, that can see

0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:07.120
<v Speaker 2>him through a different LANs. Because we don't know what's

0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:09.720
<v Speaker 2>his name, Daniel Pinny, We don't know him. He might

0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.240
<v Speaker 2>be an awesome guy. This might be the worst thing

0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:14.840
<v Speaker 2>he's ever done. And you and I often speak about

0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:18.520
<v Speaker 2>not holding someone to the worst thing that they've ever done. Right,

0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:21.600
<v Speaker 2>So I'm trying to go as extremely far the other

0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:25.520
<v Speaker 2>way as possible for the nature of this conversation, and

0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:30.040
<v Speaker 2>simply ask, how come we're always the worst thing we've

0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:36.040
<v Speaker 2>ever done. Yeah, they wouldn't have put marijuana. We will

0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:41.560
<v Speaker 2>never get that benefit of the doubt. How come even

0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:47.760
<v Speaker 2>when we're the victim, we're painted in the worst possible way.

0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:52.120
<v Speaker 2>How come this guy who murdered someone on camera gets

0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:54.600
<v Speaker 2>to be a hero and a patriot who only sought

0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:57.960
<v Speaker 2>out to protect, and the person he killed, who did

0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:01.359
<v Speaker 2>nothing to him or anyone else, gets to be the

0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:10.320
<v Speaker 2>mentally sick, drug addict, homeless transient. Yeah, even in this story,

0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:14.560
<v Speaker 2>even giving him the Okay, let's not make Daniel Penny

0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:17.840
<v Speaker 2>the worst person ever. Let's make it so he gets

0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:22.280
<v Speaker 2>to make this horrible mistake, but go home to his family.

0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:26.880
<v Speaker 2>Even in death. We have to insult the black victim

0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:32.879
<v Speaker 2>of this murder. There is a perpetual benefit of the

0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:36.320
<v Speaker 2>doubt for white people in this country, for white men

0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:41.160
<v Speaker 2>in this country, for those who victimize black people, even

0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:44.639
<v Speaker 2>if they're not white, as long as they're not also black,

0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:47.680
<v Speaker 2>Because if they're also black, we got dated to support

0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:50.520
<v Speaker 2>our black on black crime fight, our black on black

0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:55.480
<v Speaker 2>crime argument. But if they're George Zimmerman. He can follow

0:21:55.520 --> 0:22:00.720
<v Speaker 2>a young man, stalk him, catch him, and kill him,

0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:04.679
<v Speaker 2>and then stand on his right to defend himself and

0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:07.960
<v Speaker 2>stand his ground, and then go on an autograph tour

0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:12.360
<v Speaker 2>and sign skittles to add insult to injury, because that's

0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:14.680
<v Speaker 2>the candy that the kid that he murdered was buying.

0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:18.560
<v Speaker 2>Kyle Rittenhouse gets to take his rifle drive to a

0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:21.720
<v Speaker 2>town he doesn't live in, take that rifle out, kill

0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:26.199
<v Speaker 2>people and get off because he's there to protect, and

0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:30.240
<v Speaker 2>then go on a tour and sign autographs and take pictures.

0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:34.480
<v Speaker 2>And then this guy gets to get celebrated by social

0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:39.440
<v Speaker 2>media as a hero after we watched him murder another

0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:46.880
<v Speaker 2>unarmed black man who wasn't actually causing anyone any harm.

0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:50.320
<v Speaker 2>And we have to just accept it because that's just

0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:53.480
<v Speaker 2>the way it is. And when we leave the house

0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:57.000
<v Speaker 2>every day, we know our possible outcomes and how the

0:22:57.000 --> 0:22:58.760
<v Speaker 2>world might remember us after