1 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: those of the authors and participants and do not necessarily 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: represent those of iHeart Media, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. 4 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: This series contains discussions of violence and sexual violence. Listener 5 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: discretion is advised, whether we want to or not. We're 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: constantly creating records of our lives. Phone calls, emails, even 7 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: credit card purchases can be used to pinpoint where we 8 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: were at a certain time. When we touch a door knob, 9 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: the oil from our hand leaves fingerprints and her skin 10 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: sheds DNA, and if we drive by a security camera, 11 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: our license plate can be scanned and entered into a database. 12 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: But despite all of this information we're creating all of 13 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: this power that we're giving the government and police, the 14 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: United States isn't getting better at saul being serious crimes 15 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: like homicide. In fact, we're getting worse. Murders were solved 16 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: in today. That number has dropped dramatically. One of every 17 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: three murders goes unsolved. One reporter found those stats unacceptable. 18 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: Every day in America, people die who did not need 19 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 1: to die, because every solved murder reduces the occurrence of 20 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: murker from my Heart Radio and Tenderfoot TV. This is 21 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: Algorithm and I'm ben Key Break, just to introduce myself 22 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: really quick. Normally I don't host podcasts. I'm a producer, 23 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: which means I normally just do stuff behind the scenes, research, writing, 24 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: setting up interviews. Almost a year ago now, I was 25 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: working on another show called Monster DC Sniper when I 26 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: got an email from a friend. It was a link 27 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: to a story about the murder of this young woman 28 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: named Africa Hardy. The story was fascinating. It seemed to 29 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: flip everything I knew about crime on its head because 30 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: it wasn't just a story about trying to solve a murder. 31 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: It was also a story about what could have been 32 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: done to prevent the murder in the first place. And 33 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: there were aspects of the case that we're still unclear. 34 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: But if they checked out, then they could fundamentally change 35 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: the way homicides are investigated in the United States and 36 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: maybe all around the world. Obviously I was intrigued, but 37 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: at the time I was busy working on the DC 38 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: Sniper podcast, so I put it on the back burner. 39 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: I tried to just forget about it, but I couldn't. 40 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: I'd find myself on my phone late at night, searching 41 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: for articles about Africa's case when I should have been sleeping, 42 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: And I was frustrated because I had big questions about 43 00:02:56,200 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: the murder investigation that it seemed like no one was asking. Eventually, 44 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: I realized my curiosity wasn't going away. If I wanted 45 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,679 Speaker 1: these answers, I was going to have to find them myself. 46 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 1: I decided to start researching the case in my spare 47 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: time and documenting things as I went. But before I began, 48 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: I wanted to reach out to Africa's mom, Lorie Townsend. Hello, 49 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: Hi Lori, Yes, Hey, it's been Is now still a 50 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: good time? Yes? I think I wanted her blessing to 51 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: embark on this project to make sure I wasn't just 52 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,839 Speaker 1: opening up old wounds. If this was in person, i'd 53 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: see if you had a water to drink? Do you 54 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: have something like that around I? Do I have a 55 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: bad rich grape juice? Great juice? Yeah? And I didn't 56 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: just want to write a story about why Africa's case 57 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: is so important that treated her solely as a victim 58 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: or crime statistic. I wanted to learn earned more about 59 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: who Africa was and how would you describe Africa. Just beautiful. 60 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: She she really was beautiful. And I'm not just saying 61 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: that she she's my daughter. She was beautiful. She had 62 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: a very bright smile. My daughter was with African American 63 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: in Caucasian, so she had tight, curly hair and her 64 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 1: smile just she radiated with a smile. Is there like 65 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: a particular memory that stands out when you think back 66 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: about her everything? Um, she was Saffy WHI. She was 67 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,799 Speaker 1: a little shows She's try to bully her older brother. 68 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: She would put her hands on her hips to say, 69 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: I'm not considering you, I'm not considering you. Yeah, she 70 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: was like one or two wish. She was so that 71 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: all the time. She loved Disney movies like Toy Story 72 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: was one of her favorites. You know, William Buzz, We'll 73 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: see one of those people that knows the words to 74 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: all of the songs. Yeah. She could hear song once 75 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: and pick it up and never leave you alone about it. 76 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: She would sing it until her place out. Yeah. Yeah, 77 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: she's my best friend. She really was. We went through 78 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:25,679 Speaker 1: so much together. To me adding that mother and daughter 79 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: don't usually go through. When you say it's like going 80 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: through odd stuff, do you have an example, um, I 81 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: was a little abusive relationship. My daughter was there with me. 82 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: She helped me get out of it. We were homeless, 83 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: We lived in hotels together. You know, I wasn't financially 84 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: capable of taking care of my children. Lori was a 85 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: young mother trying to rebuild her life, and she felt 86 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: she couldn't provide Africa or her son the stability they needed. 87 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 1: But she didn't want to put them in foster care either. 88 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: Instead of losing my children to the system, I placed 89 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: them where I would be a part of their growing 90 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: up and where I knew they would be safe. Lorie 91 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: enrolled her kids in Moose Heart, a charity run boarding 92 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: school west of Chicago, and then she worked to get 93 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: both feet back on the ground. Lorie started a new 94 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: life in the suburbs of Denver, and once things spelt stable, 95 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: she brought her kids out there. As a teen, Africa 96 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: had plans to go to college and study to become 97 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: an audio engineer or maybe a nurse. But when Africa 98 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 1: graduated from high school, Lorie was working at a seven 99 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: eleven and struggling financially, and Africa wasn't sure she could 100 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: afford tuition. As she tried to figure out next steps. 101 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: Africa decided to move back to Chicago, where she still 102 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: had a lot of family. Dun A four teams. She 103 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: were back to Chicago. She went back with my ex cousind. 104 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: She's nineteen, so not like she was a little kid 105 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: or anything like that, but her cousin wanted to get 106 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: her a job like the post office. I don't know 107 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: what happened. Was that exactly why she moved his unclear. 108 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: Laurie says she was nineteen and looking for independence. Other 109 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: relatives wonder whether she was trying to avoid putting financial 110 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: strain on her mom. Regardless, Chicago was expensive but exciting, 111 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: and there were so many possibilities, so many things to do, 112 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: people to meet. There was a bigger city than when 113 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: she used us to about her in Denver. It was 114 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: hard to get around. You know, she had a car, 115 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: so you know, getting on the boat with you know, 116 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: a little scary horror. But she was trying to figure 117 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: things out for herself out there. Was that scary for 118 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 1: you or did you feel like she could handle it? 119 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: It was definitely scary, not being close enough to know 120 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: exactly what's really going on. So it was definitely hard 121 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: when we did talk. She was okay, and you know, 122 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: she had the two friends and she was going out 123 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: to eat nice places and she had nice polls. I 124 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: had no idea anything was going on. When I think 125 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: back now, I wonder maybe I could have prevented this. 126 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: When we were talking and she was telling me where 127 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 1: she was going out to eat or whatever, they never registered. 128 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: In my mind, I still beat myself up. Why didn't 129 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: the register to me? But maybe she was throwing the signs. 130 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: I don't think that you know everything about child, because 131 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: there's something that they're not telling you. They're either scared 132 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,559 Speaker 1: to tell you, but there is a shame to tell you. 133 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: If I knew that this is going on, I would 134 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: have stopped it. I would have went out there my 135 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: child back home. Do you remember the last interaction you 136 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: had with Africa? It was through Facebook. He has sent 137 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: me two pictures and she said she was getting fat 138 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: and I said, no, you're not. And then I got 139 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: off of work on Thursday and I thought I had 140 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: misplaced my phone. So I had message through Facebook and 141 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: told her I think I may have lost my phone. 142 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,839 Speaker 1: So if you need me, messaged me on Facebook. That 143 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: was Thursday night going into Friday. I didn't hear anything 144 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: back on around Friday. Then the following days when I 145 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: found out. It was the making of my fiancing birthday. 146 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: So we had went out to eat earlier that day 147 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: and we were just at home. Lest you walking dead, 148 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: I received a message from my ex husband's girlfriends. She 149 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: messaged me oundkasebook and she said, you need to call Tasha. 150 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: It's about Africa. I just thought Africa might be trying 151 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: to contact me through Patasha too, that's her cousin. I mean, so, 152 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: did you really pay any attention to it? She messaged 153 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: me back Abound ten minutes later, she said, you really 154 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: need to call in regard to Africa. So I called 155 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 1: Tashay are you doing She said, we were up at 156 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: the corner's office. We have to identify Africa's body. Nothing, 157 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:59,439 Speaker 1: she said, pick my brain. I'm like the corner for 158 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: what And she said, or we had to identify African's body. 159 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:11,319 Speaker 1: She said my daughter's name, and it hit me and 160 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: I black out. When I came to I just looked 161 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: up at my fiancee that Africa is dead. Cashould call 162 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: me back and she told me what happens, and um, 163 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 1: it just unreal to me. She was trying to give 164 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: me details in phone numbers that I had a call, 165 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,839 Speaker 1: I had a contract. The leading detective on the case, 166 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: Detective Forward. Detective Forward informed me that I'd probably hear 167 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: some things about my child that I don't want to believe, 168 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: but to know that it was true. On Friday, October, 169 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: Lori was waiting for a response to message she had 170 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:05,599 Speaker 1: sent her daughter Africa, but Africa had already left Chicago. 171 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: In fact, she had already left Illinois. She was forty 172 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: five miles southeast in Indiana, living a life that she 173 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: had never told her mom about. She'd gone to meet 174 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: up with a man who she had only spoken to online. Originally, 175 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,479 Speaker 1: she was going to meet him earlier in the day, 176 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: but he'd pushed things back because he said he couldn't 177 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 1: find a babysitter. Africa knew it was risky to meet 178 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: strangers from the internet, and she wanted to be safe, 179 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: so she let her friend Shimika know where she was 180 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: and what she was doing, and then texted her when 181 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: she met up with the man. Shimika was expecting another 182 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 1: text from her when things wrapped up, but hours passed 183 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,559 Speaker 1: and the second text never came, so Shimika texted Africa's 184 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 1: phone to check in. After a delay, she got a response, 185 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: but the message seemed strange. She didn't think it sounded 186 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: like something Africa would right. Shamika started to worry that 187 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: something was wrong, so she tried calling Africa, but she 188 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: couldn't get through. Shamika kept calling over and over, but 189 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: Africa wasn't picking up. So Shamika called another friend, Eduardo, 190 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: and they drove out to investigate. They arrived at the address. 191 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: It was a motel six just off Interstate nine. Eduardo 192 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: and Shamika found Africa's room and knocked on the door, 193 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,319 Speaker 1: but no one answered, so they got someone from the 194 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: motel to let them in. They didn't see anyone inside 195 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: the motel room, but the shower was running. They called 196 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: out to whoever was there, but got no response. As 197 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: they walked into the room, they saw the bed was 198 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:01,359 Speaker 1: at a strange angle. One of Africa's shoes, a platform stiletto, 199 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: was lying on its side. They saw a shirt button 200 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:10,199 Speaker 1: on the floor, a broken fingernail, and a torn condom wrapper. 201 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: They crept slowly toward the bathroom and knocked on the door, 202 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: but again there was no response. Maybe someone had just 203 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: left the shower running, so they cracked the door open. 204 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: Shamika screamed and ran out of the room. Africa Hardy 205 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: was lying in the tub, the shower water beating down 206 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: on her. There was a thin red bruise going all 207 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: the way around her neck. Just above that literature mark. 208 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: Detectives notice that Africa had a tattoo. It was a 209 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: Bible verse. It read, no weapon that is formed against 210 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: me shall prosper it tap the floor informed me that 211 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: I you hear some things about my child that I 212 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: don't want to believe, but to know that it was true. 213 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: She was an escort, prostituting, however you want to word it. Yeah, 214 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: definitely something you don't want to know about your fine 215 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: teen year old, beautiful child who could have had anything, 216 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: done anything that she wanted to. Detective Forward had learned 217 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: that Africa was working as a call girl and that 218 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: was how Africa came into contact with the man she 219 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: met at the motel. He was a client. I can 220 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: definitely a hundred percent day that my children will not 221 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: raised that way. But my children no struggle and they 222 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: know how to overcome struggle. And maybe at that time 223 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: Africa may have up that was the way to overcome struggle. 224 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think a lot of it has 225 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: to do with the older female that she defriended. Him 226 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: was twenty six. Was you that my daughter? My daughter 227 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: was nine too, and I think she kind of primmed 228 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: in prop Africa. You know, the new girl on the block. 229 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: She's beautiful and you can make some money off of her. 230 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: M Still to this day, I don't know why she 231 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: decided to do what she did. I don't know, I 232 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: don't know. I will never get that answer. Did you 233 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: ever talk to that friend? Yeah, so I did speak 234 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: with her, Like one time, we were on the phone 235 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: for about a good hour and she mentioned that Africa, 236 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: but hey, it's best money, put money, easy money, that 237 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: Africa wanted to come back to Denver. She wanted to know, 238 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: to help take care of her mom. So I'm going 239 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: to assume that that's why, you know it happened. Yea. 240 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to put myself in your shoes. 241 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: But I imagine that that's kind of confusing to hear 242 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: because in some ways it's like, you know, that's a 243 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: great thing, she wants to to help you, But then 244 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: it's also like hard because it's you know, like kind 245 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: of connects you to it or something like that. Does 246 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: that make sense exactly? Yeah, Like I feel guilty. I 247 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 1: mean I feel guilty about the whole scenario, but the 248 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: part that she wanted to help me, you know, since 249 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: Africa was little, I guess she's always looked up to me, 250 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: and I have little letters and know if that she 251 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: write me, and so when I get famous, I'm not 252 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: going to have to worry about anything anymore. I think 253 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 1: in her mind, you know, she thought that she really 254 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 1: had to take care of me because now that she 255 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: was grown, it was her turn. You know, mother takes 256 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: care of child, nor child had to take care of mother. 257 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: It was just something in her that she thought she 258 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: wanted to do to me. That speaks to you know 259 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: that you guys were close and that she wanted to 260 00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: help you. When I've talked to people, lots of people 261 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,360 Speaker 1: talk about guilt, even in situations where it doesn't really 262 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: make sense. I think that that is also sometimes just 263 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: like part of losing someone you're very close to, you 264 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: always kind of wonder. Yeah, if there's a lot of 265 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 1: things I wonder about. Did she begged for him to stop? 266 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: She begged him for her life? You know, I was like, 267 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,679 Speaker 1: I wonder these things. I don't know if I'm wrong 268 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: for wondering that. I just want to know what my 269 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: daughter's wife words were when we first reached out to me. 270 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: You said something about old wounds. This is not an 271 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: old wound. This is a daily wound, you know, and 272 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: um to adjusted things, but it never goes away, It 273 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: never ever goes away. UM. I was telling my girlfriend 274 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 1: that I was getting ready to do this interview, and 275 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: her father passed away a year ago, and you know, 276 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 1: a very different situation. And but she feels like other 277 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: people get uncomfortable when she talks about it, like they 278 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: don't want her to feel bad, but she wants to 279 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: talk about him. Very true, very true, very very very true. 280 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: People think that you're like completely broken, and they don't 281 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 1: want to say anything or mention anything. But in order 282 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: for me to keep my daughter's voice going, I have 283 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: to talk about it. Let me talk. If I have 284 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: to cry, and let me cry. If I wanted to laugh, 285 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: let me laugh. So people are really like that. They're 286 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: still like that with me today. So it is what 287 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: it is. So before you were saying that you're like 288 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: kind of curious about this, like you wanted to figure 289 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: out a lot about what was going on after this happened. Yeah, 290 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: I still have some curiosities, and there's still some things 291 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: that I think me to be done and could be done. 292 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: Like I get angry because he killed my daughter and 293 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: my daughter was found enough freaking hotel m naked in 294 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:06,919 Speaker 1: a shower. Why you know, I get her? You know 295 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 1: why angry myself. Here's another thing. I wonder why this 296 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: guy we've left loose because here's the crazy thing about 297 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 1: Africa's case. Well, Africa's death was senseless and seemed utterly random. 298 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: It wasn't random. It was part of a pattern. And 299 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: years earlier, a man named Thomas Hargrove had tried to 300 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: warn police. He said he had evidence that a serial 301 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: killer was on the loose, strangling young women in the area, 302 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 1: women just like Africa. Hardy. So, who was Thomas Hargrove 303 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: and what was his evidence? Unfortunately, Bury, Indiana is a 304 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,679 Speaker 1: good place to be a killer because you're probably going 305 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: to get away with him. Hey, Ben, can you hear me? 306 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: I'm speaking with Thomas Hargrove over zoom here. Hold on 307 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: one second. I have to warn my wife. I'm doing 308 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: an interview. Harkerve's the guy who warned police in Indiana 309 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 1: that they might have a serial killer and the loose 310 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 1: Hargrove sixty four. He's got a white beard and wear 311 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,959 Speaker 1: thin rimmed glasses. He wasn't the sort of guy I 312 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: imagined would be investigating serial killers, so he's curious how 313 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: he got into all this. I don't know where these 314 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 1: things come from, but when I was seventeen, I decided 315 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: I had to be a reporter, and investigative reporter, an 316 00:21:55,600 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: investigative reporters, somebody looking into a truth that somebody is 317 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: trying to hide, Like Africa. Hardy Hargrove grew up outside Chicago. 318 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: He was inspired by journalists there who came up with 319 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 1: a creative way to expose the city's corruption. Reporters kept 320 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: hearing about the bribes that business owners had to pay 321 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: city inspectors, but it was hard to prove any wrongdoing, 322 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: so the journalists decided to go deep undercover. The reporters 323 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 1: fought their editor into opening a bar. They called it 324 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: the Mirage. Journalists were actually becoming bar keeps, and they 325 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:38,120 Speaker 1: were running this bar for months and months. They were 326 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 1: specifically looking for indications of public corruption. And they found it. 327 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: With hidden cameras running, the reporters caught inspectors taking bribes 328 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: and ignoring code violations. It was a remarkable project, and 329 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 1: it just seemed like it was so much fun. I 330 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: wanted to be like these people. After high school, Hargrove 331 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: studied journalism at the University of Missouri. It's actually one 332 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: of the country's top programs for journalism at that time. 333 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: In the early seventies, a new field was emerging called 334 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: computer assisted reporting. The idea was that reporters could use 335 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: computers to analyze data like government records. Hard grow quickly 336 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 1: grasped that computing had the potential to revolutionize investigative journalism. 337 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: It allowed reporters to step back and look at issues 338 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: with a wider lens. From this new perspective, sometimes previously 339 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: invisible patterns would come into focus. If you didn't ask 340 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: the question in exactly the right way, your program would fail. 341 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: And it was very frustrating, but it was astonishing what 342 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 1: computers could do. After college, Hargrove landed a job as 343 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 1: a crime reporter for the Birmingham Post Herald. Being a 344 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 1: police reporter in the Deep South was a remarkable way 345 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: to get started. I came as a Yankee and really 346 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 1: wasn't expecting to like that experience, but I did. Her 347 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: Grove loved the work experience he was getting, but being 348 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 1: a police reporter wasn't always easy. It's one thing to 349 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 1: think I want to write exposes about crooked politics. That's 350 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: another thing to see what happens because of bad policies, 351 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 1: poverty and desperation and violence. Hard Grove kept a police 352 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: scanner running all the time, even at home. If he 353 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 1: heard a dispatch that sounded newsworthy, he'd immediately drive out 354 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 1: to the scene of the crime. Sometimes, if he happened 355 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: to be nearby, he would beat the cops there. One 356 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: was at a convenience store in Hoover, Alabama. I opened 357 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: the door and didn't see anybody, and then found the 358 00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: cashier behind the counter. The cashier had been shot. He 359 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: was lying on the ground leading out. He didn't say anything. 360 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: He wasn't especially conscious, but he breathed his last It 361 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: is an experience to see someone die. I didn't really 362 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: think when I was a teenager what it was like 363 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: to cover the news. I guess I didn't realize that 364 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: when you experience the news rather than just right about it. 365 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: It really is a life changing process. Hard Group's time 366 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: as a crime reporter was also when he first learned 367 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: about serial killers and a phenomenon called linkage blindness. In 368 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: the late nineties seventies, the term serial killer did not exist. 369 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: That was invented in the eighties. The term did not exist, 370 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: but the idea that someone could kill over and over 371 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: again was becoming common among Americans at that time. Just 372 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: to the east of Birmingham, Atlanta was experiencing the Atlanta 373 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: child murders, and those murders were not being solved. It's 374 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: unusual for children to be murdered. It's very unusual for 375 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: child murders to go unsolved, and there was criticism of 376 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 1: the Atlanta Police Department for not recognizing the patterns sooner. 377 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 1: I started attending academic symposiums that looked into the question 378 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: of the Atlanta child murders, and I heard from criminologists 379 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: that this is a well known problem called linkage blindness, 380 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,719 Speaker 1: that when there are connected cases, often the connection is 381 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: not made by police because of the nature of how 382 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: homicides are investigated. If someone murdered, a detective is assigned 383 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: to the case. When another person is murdered, Usually a 384 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 1: different detective is assigned to the case. If there are 385 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: commonalities to the two murders, those commonalities are not recognized 386 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: unless those two detectives have a conversation over the water cooler. 387 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: If those killings occurred in a neighboring jurisdiction, that conversation 388 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 1: never happens. Experts in the field, we're saying that most 389 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 1: connected murders go unrecognized. The links are very rarely made, 390 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,439 Speaker 1: and I kept that in the back of my mind. 391 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 1: Hargrove didn't know it yet, but this simple insight about 392 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 1: linkage blindness, that connections between murders are often missed by police, 393 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: That idea would become an obsession and completely alter the 394 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 1: course of his life. But his next clue wouldn't come 395 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,120 Speaker 1: until decades later, when he was halfway across the country. 396 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 1: Hargrove had climbed up through the ranks, and in two 397 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: thousand four he was living his teenage dream. He was 398 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: working as an investigative reporter in Washington, d C. And 399 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: he was using the programming skills he learned in college 400 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 1: to write big data driven stories. In two thousand four, 401 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: I was assigned to do a really interesting story. He 402 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: just started a piece on prostitution when he stumbled across 403 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: another clue. In some cities, anti prostitution laws are vigorously enforced. 404 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: In other cities, the laws are virtually ignored, and in 405 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: other cities just the men who higher prostitutes are arrested. 406 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: So it was all across the board, who gets arrested, 407 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: whether anyone gets arrested. To study this, I needed the 408 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: uniform crime report because prostitution is something the FBI counts, 409 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: So hart Grove ordered a CD with FBI records about crime. 410 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: He was planning to compare prostitution arrest between different cities 411 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: when he discovered something else. Included on that CD at 412 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: no extra charge was a file I had never heard of, 413 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: called the Supplemental Homicide Report. Being paid to be curious, 414 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: I opened it up and what it was was line 415 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: after line of individual murders. It showed the age, race, 416 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: sex of each victim. Victim is a blackmail eighteen years old. 417 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: It had the weapon that was used. He was shut 418 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: with a handgun. It had the police theory as to 419 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: why the homicide occurred. The murder is thought to be 420 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: due to an argument over money or property. It had 421 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: the month and year and the jurisdiction January two thousand, 422 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: Los Angeles, Long Beach, California. I had never seen the 423 00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: individual crime data before, and I don't know where all 424 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: these connections occur in our minds, But the first thought 425 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: I had upon opening the s HR the Supplemental Homicide 426 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: Report was could we teach a computer to identify connected 427 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: cases to find serial killings? Hard Grove had a feeling 428 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: that an algorithm could find patterns within that data and 429 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: detect serial killers. And maybe you could even be used 430 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: to detect active serial killers who had not yet been caught. 431 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: This idea started hard Grove down a winding path that 432 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: eventually led him to discover a trail of bodies, bodies 433 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: that he says, we're left behind by the man who 434 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: killed Africa Hardy. But this isn't just a story investigating 435 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: Africa Hardy's killer and cold cases that might be connected 436 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: to him. If there's one thing that will become clear 437 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,239 Speaker 1: from this story, it's that Africa Hardy didn't need to 438 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: die next time on algorithm. Serial killer Gary Ridgway was 439 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: convicted in a court of law of murdering forty eight 440 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: girls and women. The question was could we teach a 441 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: computer a process that would tell us that something god 442 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: awful happened in Seattle. My editors recognized that this could 443 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: be something very cool, but it's hard to commit to 444 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: a project you don't know up front whether it's possible. 445 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: The stereotypes about the profile of a serial killer or 446 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: profile of the victims is not really very consistent with 447 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: the facts. This is really one of the most frustrating 448 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: experiences of my life. Your only hope is to get 449 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: Jackie to talk. I think the Gary Police Department should 450 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: be looking at some of those old cases. They still 451 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: may have a killer out there. Episode two of Algorithm 452 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: is out now. Listen to subscribe on the I Heart 453 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. 454 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: This episode was written and produced by me ben Key Brick. 455 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: Algorithm is executive produced by Alex Williams, Donald Albright, and 456 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: Matt Frederick. Production assistance in mixing by Eric Quintana. The 457 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: music is by Makeup and Vanity Set and Blue Dot Sessions. 458 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 1: Thanks to Christina Dana, Miranda Hawkins, Jamie Albright, rema El Kaili, 459 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: Trevor Young, and Josh Thane for their help and notes. 460 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: Also really thanks for listening. Um, it means a lot. 461 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: Like I was saying, this is my first time hosting 462 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 1: a podcast like this and I love to know what 463 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: you think. So if you have a moment, please subscribe 464 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: and leave a review.