WEBVTT - Negotiation as a Winning Everyday Tactic #554 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.440 Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I in 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:06.680 that today we're discussing negotiation as a winning everyday tactic. 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:30.400 That's right, buddy, we are talking about negotiating negotiations. I 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:32.720 feel like, uh, like that's that's one of those words 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:34.479 that you hear. Okay, so it makes me think of 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:37.360 Princess Bride when he says, you keep using that word. 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:40.080 It does not mean what you think it means. And 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:42.360 I think when people hear that word, they think of 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.160 like sitting down at this conference table. Uh, and there's 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:46.920 two parties at the table, right, Like, it makes me 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:48.919 think of like a union, and then you've got like 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:51.360 the guy that's in there. It's a you know, make 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:53.400 a deal with the union, that kind of thing. But 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:56.360 and while that's true, I guess we are talking about negotiating. 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:58.560 We're trying to put it into a new light. Or 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:00.880 you think about like the FBI and negos shading hostage 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:04.040 stand offers exactly his high stake thing that that's like 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:08.120 highly emotional and in reality, well that is true, but 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:10.919 negotiating does take place under those there's a whole different 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:13.000 type of negotiating. Then that's what we want to talk 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:15.560 about today, how it can impact your everyday life, how 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:18.040 it can save you money, how it can uh perhaps 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:20.240 allow you to make more money. We're gonna talk about 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:22.200 all of that today, Yeah, no doubt. All right, Well, 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:23.720 before we get to that, Matt, let's just share a 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:27.080 listener win because listener Kyle reached out to us and 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:29.920 he he um. He was one of those people that 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:32.679 you know, when we talk about millennial spending money at 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.319 coffee shops, Kyle was the patent guy they were talking about. 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.320 Because Kyle Kleen, he was spending something close to a 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:41.600 hundred dollars a month so on getting coffee every day 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:44.840 out at Starbuck and in all fairness, his work, he said, 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:47.400 takes them. He's on the road Monday through Friday. And 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.440 I was also thinking, well, why doesn't his employer pay 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:52.400 for his coffee or pay for his meals? But I 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:54.080 don't know his situation. I don't know what he's got 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:56.400 going on, but either way, he was paying out a pocket. Yeah, 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:58.880 like you said, for coffee. And this is an instance 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:02.600 where a subscript and normally we hate subscriptions, but this 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:04.600 is a subscription we can get behind because it's gonna 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:07.800 save you money. He's talking. He basically told us about 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:11.840 the unlimited sip club ye from Panera Bread. Yeah, which 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:15.320 basically it's it's something like we've got a gas station 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:17.120 where we live and it called a quick Trip, and 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:19.080 they would, I think, do something similar where you get 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:21.520 unlimited rebills during the summer months for a certain amount, 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:24.120 you know, for a certain dollar amount with a particular cup, right, like, 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:25.440 as long as you buy the kind of cut that 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:28.560 you can show up refills something like that, drink all 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:31.440 the high freaking corn syrup carbonation as you want to 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:36.399 pass out on the floor dead from just well yeah, 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.280 Kyle's using it mostly to get coffee, but yeah, you're right. 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:41.240 This is a situation which he weighed the pros and cons, 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:43.640 and the subscription made the most sense because that Panera 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:47.040 Bread subscription is like nine dollars a month, and so 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:49.480 he was paying nine dollars so he started. But so 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:52.760 when you go to it now, it's like it's the 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:54.880 only about like ten bucks, which is I mean, if 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:57.160 you're able to save close to ninety bucks a month, 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:00.320 this is I mean, so this is where like jeting 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:02.280 and tracking your expenses is going to really come in 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:05.200 handy because I've I feel that though, like those coffee 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:08.600 expenses could just sort of slip under the radar, you know, 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:10.320 like you're like, I'm not spending that much, but then 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:12.920 you're like, oh, wait a minute, I'm actually spending money 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:15.360 on coffee every single day because I'm a human being. 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.200 And he mentioned Monday through Friday, but man, I'd be 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:21.320 using that thing on the weekend, not just Monday through 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:23.760 Friday while I'm on the road. I'm gonna take advantage 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:27.720 of that seven days a week only. I like the ingenuity, right, yes, yeah, 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:29.639 because it's one of those things where he said he's 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:32.079 saving eighty five plus dollars a month now that he's 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:34.920 doing this subscription. Because if you're getting coffee every day 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:37.200 out like and you put that in your budget, that's okay. 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:39.560 But if you could also find a way to save 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:43.440 right to to do it for like one tenth of 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.400 the price fraction, Yeah, that's impressive. He can kind of 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:48.160 have your keya, you have your cake and eat it too, 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:50.520 as long as you can get behind some you know, 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:53.040 Panera coffee. I don't know what we don't I don't 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:57.000 know what level it's at, but Kyle Moore powered to 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:00.120 you I saw too. There's like it's not just coffee, like, 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:01.840 you can get fountain drinks as well, so you can 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:05.560 also pull the quick trip move going there and t 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:08.360 as well, like hot and cold teas. Are you still drinking? 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:11.440 You're your iced tea at dinner? Like every sweet every 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:13.400 like a good Southerner you are. Yeah, I was gonna 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:15.920 say you are such even though I'm not really a Southerner. 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.320 It's it's the Southern way of being and it's you 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:21.080 do it sweet. Yeah, and not as sweet is like 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:23.560 you might get at cracker Barrel or something like that. 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:25.520 But uh yeah, no, I like, I like sweet tea 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:28.960 for dinner. Caffeine has no effect on you, sir. All right, 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:33.000 So our beer for this episode is a grisette by 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:36.000 Jester King, and this one is re fermented with cherries. 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:38.600 I'm looking forward to enjoying this one today. We will 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:40.599 share our thoughts at the end of the episode. Yeah, 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:42.520 my assumption is that our thoughts are gonna be positive, 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:43.920 but we're gonna love it. Yeah, you can wait to 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:46.760 find out because Jester King. Well, Matt, let's move on. 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:49.520 Let's talk about negotiating as a as an everyday tactic 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:52.640 that people can use to win with their finances. And 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:54.360 I don't know, it made me think, as we're talking 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.080 about negotiation, you just mentioned how people maybe think of 0:04:57.120 --> 0:04:59.000 it wrongly. We're always thinking about it in these big, 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.719 grand terms, when really there are a lot of small, 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:05.040 everyday ways that we can negotiate and win. Maybe think 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:07.480 about the way you track your time, and you you've 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:10.240 been pretty committed to tracking your time. I have been 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:12.440 in the past. Yeah, and I no longer do that, Okay, 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:14.599 all right, Well for a while you were, And maybe 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:16.200 it's just because you found a good group, right, you 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:18.360 found yourself the way you tracked your time, and then 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:21.680 you began to implement some new habits, like a self exploration. 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:23.200 I was just curious to see how much time I 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:25.320 was spending on different tasks throughout the day, so I tracked. 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.520 For folks who haven't been listening more than a year, 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:30.480 I guess this is like maybe two years ago, Laura 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:32.640 vanderham on two to three years ago. Yeah, I was 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:34.920 around that time, and I was literally tracking every minute 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:36.920 of the day, like I had this app going on 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:38.520 my phone, and I made fun of you know, any 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:40.520 of those minutes time the day based on the way 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:42.240 you were. Now, I just switched from one activity to 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:44.880 the next, and I wasn't getting to too detailed with it, 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.400 but just general swallos of the day. I was curious, what, 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:49.760 you know, what I was spending my time on in 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:52.360 order just to hopefully be more efficient with my time. Yeah, 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:53.760 and I thought you were being kind of nerdy. And 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:55.680 maybe it is. It's a nerdy your thing, Like that's 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:58.000 not a normal thing, right, I talked smack about you 0:05:58.040 --> 0:05:59.919 behind the scenes. Well, you know, and I'm just like 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.320 a less regimented person and I'm more prone to do 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:04.800 things on a whim. It's not for you, but like, 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:07.720 there're certainly flaws with my personality tendency, right, I tend 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:09.400 to throw the baby out with the bathwater when I 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:12.000 when I should at least consider the benefits of something 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:15.360 as simple as managing my time more effectively and trying 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:17.520 to implement something that would help me do that. And 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:20.480 so I guess what something I thought was unimportant or 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:24.240 at least uncool not with my ever is maybe something is. 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.920 It's something I've found more meaningful recently because I've been 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:30.960 able to find a balance between tracking my time in 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:34.159 some ways to make sure that I'm being effective. I 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:36.760 have no desire to go to down to the minute 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:39.479 detail or second detail of my life and and track 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:42.760 it that extensively. But still I think in much the 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.280 same way, right when it comes to negotiation, there's a 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:48.120 potential for meaningful value. Right that people might think it's 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:50.440 not worth their time to think about it, uh and 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:52.960 doing it regularly learning how to do it well. But 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:54.560 but like me, when it comes to time management, you 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:56.280 might be wrong, and you might find that there are 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:58.560 there are ways at least that you can incorporate it 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:01.200 into your life that will provide enough results and maybe 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:03.680 it'll make you kind of rethink the endeavor and kind 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:07.080 of make you more interested and actually going down that path. Sure, yeah, 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:09.600 and you know, like being able to manage your time well. 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:12.559 Like we are here to argue that negotiating is something 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:15.560 that can benefit you regardless of what stage of life 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.480 you're in, right, like whether you you're a student school, 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:21.440 whether you are a stay at home parent, or even 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.600 a CEO. We think that negotiating has sort of like 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.640 the special universal quality to it. But one of the 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:30.840 problems is that oftentimes folks are just too scared to 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:35.160 negotiate fear is certainly something that holds us back much 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:37.840 of the time, as a lot of us have been raised, 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.240 I think to ruffle as as few feathers as possible. 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:42.680 You know, I gotta wanna paint with too broad of 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:46.160 a brush. But like I believe that younger generations ours 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:49.960 included as millennials, that were particularly prone to avoid any 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:53.360 social discomfort that that might come about because of conflict. 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:55.920 Just makes me think of how will might send like 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:59.160 twenty or thirty or forty texts in order to uh 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:02.920 distance ourselves from a potential awkward situation, right when we 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:04.320 know that if we just picked up the phone and 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:07.040 called our parents back or got back to our friend, 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:09.680 it would help to clarify things. And granted there are 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:12.120 times there's there's a time in place for text messages, 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:14.360 for sure, but there's sort of this ongoing joke I 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:17.200 feel like with millennials and zoomers, where it's like I'm 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:18.440 not going to pick up the phone, like I'm not 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:20.360 going to talk to you in person when we know 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:22.480 that that would be a more effective way to communicate. 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:24.640 But oftentimes I think we're doing that in order to 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.840 preserve any sort of uh, to keep away any conflict 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:30.800 to not ruffle those feathers. And you know the other 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.760 realities that folks often don't know how to negotiate well. 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:36.400 They're they're unsure about how to do it well. Uh. 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:38.880 And so it's not necessarily that you didn't want your 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.480 time to be spent wisely, Joel. You just hadn't tried 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:43.640 to implement maybe a system that helped you to do that, 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:45.880 or maybe I was just thinking about it wrong and 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:48.440 I thought that to be more effective with my time, 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:49.800 I had to track it in the way you were 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:51.920 doing it, which was pretty granular, and I was like, 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:54.840 that's that's too intense for me. It doesn't mean that 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:56.559 I don't want my time to be spent well, and 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.320 then I could find something that is going to be 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:02.400 better for for that. And even though like generally like 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:04.560 a nerdy concept, that doesn't mean that being able to 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.320 manage your time more effectively like that's going to benefit 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:09.400 anybody and everybody. And so in the same way, we 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:12.200 feel that way about negotiating. So we want to dispel 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:16.280 some of these preconceived notions about what negotiation does and 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:18.920 what it doesn't involve. Today, we're gonna offer our best 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.880 advice for for how you can start implementing some beneficial 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:25.280 tactics in your everyday life, helping you to to save 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:27.600 more money, to make more money as well, and you know, 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:29.920 just pursue more of what it is that you value. Yeah, 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.319 let's first maybe talk a little bit about what negotiating 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.520 is and isn't, because I think sometimes one of the 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:40.080 biggest common myths is that people think a shrewd negotiator 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:43.280 is screwing people over left and right. Sure, and so 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:46.480 that in order to effectively get what you want, somebody 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.280 else has to get run over in the process. They 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:55.280 often there's a fixed amount of pizza, get more, and 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.720 therefore maybe maybe it's not unfair or maybe I'm hurting 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:01.040 someone in the process. That's their city mindset. Yeah, and 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:03.360 they think that it's maybe some sort of conflict ridden 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.600 exercise too. But again that's a myth, because the best 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:09.439 negotiators to actually leave the other side feeling like they 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:13.199 gotta win. Also, so, yeah, if you're negotiating and you're 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:15.840 leaving a bad taste in someone's mouth because your tactics 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.720 are too ruthless, they're not likely to want much to 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:21.960 do with you in the future, meaning that you lost. Also, 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:24.160 that's not the right you want to take. You've you've 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:26.360 lost the overall war, right Like you may have one 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:29.280 that that one particular battle, that skirmish, but not the 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:31.439 overall war. Right. Yeah, it makes me think of I 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:33.880 don't know. One of the most common things I think 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:36.520 about as a baseball fan when it comes to negotiating, 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:38.720 is the trade deadline pass just a few weeks ago? 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:42.240 Oh did it it? Did? They are all these trades 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:44.400 flying around, especially the last couple of days. It's like 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.320 trading a couple of prospects for a major league player 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:48.880 or everyone one of those major league players from major 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:51.800 league player deals. Sometimes there's cash thrown in and stuff 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:54.400 into these deals as well. But let's say a baseball 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:58.120 GM he pulls the wool over another GM's eyes, and 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:00.880 that's harder to do because he typically have the same 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.040 information at their disposal. But let's say you did you 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:07.280 just he fully took advantage of somebody to work for 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:10.680 another club. Well, that's going to prevent future opportunities to 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:14.200 make good trades, right, and that could ultimately hamstring his 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:17.360 efforts in the long run. And so yeah, this this typically, 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:19.600 by the way, negotiation, it's not typically a one time thing. 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:22.040 You don't want to sour a relationship by taking advantage 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:24.480 of the other party. That's an important part to mention 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:27.600 here because that's sort of mentality. Thinking of negotiation as 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:30.320 this one off chance to try to like destroy somebody 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:32.959 else is the exact opposite of what you're trying to 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.200 accomplish a totally. It's worth mentioning as well, that negotiating 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.480 it's considered normal in other cultures and in other countries 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:41.360 because oftentimes in our culture we're used to more of 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:45.360 a fixed price sort of market. Here, typically you can't 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:48.040 really negotiate the price of a box of cheerios or 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:51.040 a gallon of milk at Walmart or at your local 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.880 Aldi or Costco. That we just generally do a lot 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:57.440 less haggling than a lot of cultures, whereas in countries 0:11:57.559 --> 0:11:59.679 like in the Middle East and in Turkey, Egypt, over 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:02.720 in down in Central America, haggling it's the normal way 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.440 of doing business. Makes me think back to when I 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:07.720 was in high school and I was in Guatemala City. 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:10.360 Right outside of Guatemala City, there is a market and 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.600 we were encouraged, like as high schoolers are like hey, 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.040 well they're gonna say a price, and they're basically the 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:16.920 folks who are with us, we're teaching us how to 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:20.200 haggle because they know, as American teenagers that we had 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:22.880 zero experience doing that basically, And so it was a 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:26.520 lot of fun figuring out how to uh negotiate down 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:31.280 the price of the machete that I was trying to buy, which, yeah, 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:33.360 that's right. As a high schooler, I bought a machete. 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.760 And yes, this was obviously pre uh nine eleven. Um 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:40.719 for all the Stoomers out there, you used to be 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:43.720 able to travel with the chetti's on the airplane. I 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:46.040 hadn't really thought about the fact that, yeah, like somehow 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:47.960 I came back and remember I have that at home. 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:52.120 It's like this uh Guatemala machete. All right, well you 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:53.800 should whip that out. And you know, I don't think 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:56.560 I have an intra weeds under control the front lawn. Well, yeah, 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.560 it makes me think of when I visited China back 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.960 in two thousand nine, and I did not buy machete, 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:04.200 but I bought like a pair of shorts. I had 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:06.240 left my swim trucks and home I totally forgot to 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:10.079 bring any and so I need more by a part. Yes, yes, 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:13.720 and I can actually bring those someone the plane. But 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.560 I distinctly just remember haggling with this, with this, with 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:20.800 this lady in the market over these shorts, and I 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:22.280 just thought it was a blast. I thought it was 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:24.840 fun to kind of this this back and forth and 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:27.520 even just like the reactions, right, the facial reactions from 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:29.880 the person who's doing this, Like how they seem like 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:32.480 it's like a dance. Oh yeah, it's exactly. It's exactly 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.440 like a dance, and they kind of like fake being 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:37.800 insulted or something like that, and then they come back 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.520 at you, and I just remember just how fun that 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:42.400 game was. And I think, I think Matt, you're right, like, 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:44.960 if you can think of negotiation more as a game 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:47.480 instead of like this butting of heads, you'll be far 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:49.360 more likely to engage in it, even if it's like 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.400 not seen as terribly normal here in the United States. 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:54.480 We can take kind of a lesson from some of 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:57.679 these other cultures how how they do it, how they 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:00.319 perform this negotiation dance, and I think you can kind 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:02.480 of think of it similarly. Sure, but just because you 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:04.520 we think about it that way doesn't necessarily mean that 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:06.160 everybody else will think of it that way, right, and 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:08.959 so uh, in that way, though, I think we should 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.760 probably think less about what other people think. Like Warren 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.840 Buffett talks about the interscore card versus the external scorecard 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:17.160 and how we oftentimes we probably need to be spending 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:19.440 more time on the interscore card and what matters to 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.240 us as opposed to what everybody what everybody else thinks. 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:24.440 And so bottom line, we think that there's more room 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:27.840 to negotiate on the daily than you think. Joel, you 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.960 read this book Uh Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss, 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:33.480 and you're like, yeah, we gotta talk about negotiating, I think. 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:35.920 And I was like, but but there's a way for 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:38.640 us to apply this specifically to kind of personal finance 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:40.480 and money. Yeah, And so that's what we're doing today. 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.120 We're gonna discuss some of these ways to negotiate better, uh, 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:45.680 and we also provide some examples so that you can 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:49.160 have an idea of how and when to apply these 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:53.120 techniques for maximum effectiveness. And you know, one of the 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.800 first things that we would encourage for you to do 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:59.040 is to identify the pain point of whoever it is 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.880 that you're negotiating because you you know what it is 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.600 that you want, right, it's the reason that you're having 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:07.680 a conversation, uh to begin with. And you also already 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:09.880 know what it is the other person wants, because either 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:12.000 they've listed that item for sale or they've called you 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:14.440 into their office and they're talking about a raise. But 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:16.320 now it's it's going to be important for you to 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:20.560 try and identify why it is they want what they want. 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:22.480 And so, for for instance, it makes me think if 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:25.760 you've been eyeing a TV on Facebook marketplace, right, some 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:29.640 of those pain points are easily decipherable from just like 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:31.960 looking at the listing real quick. Right, Like one of 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:34.640 those is just how long it's been listed, because most 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.400 folks they're gonna get tired of fielding the uh is 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.360 this is this item still available questions after a while. 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:42.440 If I've filled a ten of those with no follow throughs, 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:44.600 someone actually a series about following through You're like, I'm 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:46.600 already how can I sell this to you as quickly 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:49.520 as possible in prim negotiating territory, like you can kind 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:51.440 of come at me with some some decent offers and 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:53.320 I'll consider it exactly. Yeah, so you're gonna have more 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:55.440 room to negotiate if that TV has been listed for 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:57.360 a couple of weeks rather than if it's just been 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.400 there for a couple of days. Um. Also, like like TVs, 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:02.440 they're they're kind of big, you know, And so there's 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.280 a good chance that they might just want it out 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:08.120 of the garage or just out of the laundry room 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:10.760 wherever they have it. So your ability to get a 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:14.040 better price might be a direct reflection of your ability 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:16.640 to pay cash and to pick it up today. Figure 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:18.720 out what it is that they're wanting the most, other 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:22.080 than in this case money, and find a way to 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:24.640 meet them at that need. Yeah, yeah, I agree, Yeah, 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.600 And sometimes it is just the timing right. People want 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.720 it to be simple. And if you say, listen, if 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:31.840 you'll take this much less, I will come pick it 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:34.880 up within the next hour, I will. I will be 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:36.840 in my car and on my way. I will make 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:39.160 it super simple. I will have cash in hand. And 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:41.520 that can sway somebody to accept a lower price than 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:44.880 they would they were previously otherwise disposed to taking. And 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:46.840 it's it's important to know, by the way, that not 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.160 everything is negotiable, right, But when you can identify the 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:53.120 pain point, you'll find that negotiating can be a reality 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:55.760 in more situations than you previously thought. It's kind of 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:57.920 like we talked about Matt when we talked about negotiating 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.320 a rent decrease or how a lot of people are 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:03.640 you know, keeping it rent from going up, basically finding 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:06.359 a way to keep it keep it steady. Well, you 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:08.159 can negotiate, but you've got to figure out what the 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:11.200 landlord's dilemma is. That's how Justin Pogue phrased it when 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:13.040 we brought him on the show. And when you know 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:16.159 what that land the landlord's pain point is, you can 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:19.400 address it in order to secure better terms for both 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.240 your landlord and yourself. You know, for a landlord, that 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:25.080 pain point could be losing a tenant that's been incredibly easy. 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.120 So let's say you are that tenant that has been 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:31.720 you've been a dream to work with rents early. Yeah, 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:34.879 not asking for silly things like a light bulb to 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:38.520 be replaced. You're basically relieving a landlord pain point and 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:41.520 it's gonna make it easier to negotiate. And let's say, um, 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:43.760 they might be worried about vacancy, right, so if you 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:46.360 move out, they might be the landlord might be worried 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:48.000 that they they're gonna lose a whole month of rent. 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:50.760 And if you know that they're worried about that that 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:53.040 they might not be able to get someone in time, 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:56.560 that gives you more leverage at the negotiating table. There 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:58.680 might be maybe, let's say, some deferred maintenance that they're 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:00.119 going to have to take care of if you to 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:03.040 move out to All of these things could be points 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:05.920 at which you can press to help ensure that you're 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:09.080 able to get and negotiate a lower rent amount. And 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:12.439 so deciphering the pain point sometimes it's intuitive, but it 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:15.840