Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I in
Speaker 1: that today we're discussing negotiation as a winning everyday tactic.
Speaker 1: That's right, buddy, we are talking about negotiating negotiations. I
Speaker 1: feel like, uh, like that's that's one of those words
Speaker 1: that you hear. Okay, so it makes me think of
Speaker 1: Princess Bride when he says, you keep using that word.
Speaker 1: It does not mean what you think it means. And
Speaker 1: I think when people hear that word, they think of
Speaker 1: like sitting down at this conference table. Uh, and there's
Speaker 1: two parties at the table, right, Like, it makes me
Speaker 1: think of like a union, and then you've got like
Speaker 1: the guy that's in there. It's a you know, make
Speaker 1: a deal with the union, that kind of thing. But
Speaker 1: and while that's true, I guess we are talking about negotiating.
Speaker 1: We're trying to put it into a new light. Or
Speaker 1: you think about like the FBI and negos shading hostage
Speaker 1: stand offers exactly his high stake thing that that's like
Speaker 1: highly emotional and in reality, well that is true, but
Speaker 1: negotiating does take place under those there's a whole different
Speaker 1: type of negotiating. Then that's what we want to talk
Speaker 1: about today, how it can impact your everyday life, how
Speaker 1: it can save you money, how it can uh perhaps
Speaker 1: allow you to make more money. We're gonna talk about
Speaker 1: all of that today, Yeah, no doubt. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: before we get to that, Matt, let's just share a
Speaker 1: listener win because listener Kyle reached out to us and
Speaker 1: he he um. He was one of those people that
Speaker 1: you know, when we talk about millennial spending money at
Speaker 1: coffee shops, Kyle was the patent guy they were talking about.
Speaker 1: Because Kyle Kleen, he was spending something close to a
Speaker 1: hundred dollars a month so on getting coffee every day
Speaker 1: out at Starbuck and in all fairness, his work, he said,
Speaker 1: takes them. He's on the road Monday through Friday. And
Speaker 1: I was also thinking, well, why doesn't his employer pay
Speaker 1: for his coffee or pay for his meals? But I
Speaker 1: don't know his situation. I don't know what he's got
Speaker 1: going on, but either way, he was paying out a pocket. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like you said, for coffee. And this is an instance
Speaker 1: where a subscript and normally we hate subscriptions, but this
Speaker 1: is a subscription we can get behind because it's gonna
Speaker 1: save you money. He's talking. He basically told us about
Speaker 1: the unlimited sip club ye from Panera Bread. Yeah, which
Speaker 1: basically it's it's something like we've got a gas station
Speaker 1: where we live and it called a quick Trip, and
Speaker 1: they would, I think, do something similar where you get
Speaker 1: unlimited rebills during the summer months for a certain amount,
Speaker 1: you know, for a certain dollar amount with a particular cup, right, like,
Speaker 1: as long as you buy the kind of cut that
Speaker 1: you can show up refills something like that, drink all
Speaker 1: the high freaking corn syrup carbonation as you want to
Speaker 1: pass out on the floor dead from just well yeah,
Speaker 1: Kyle's using it mostly to get coffee, but yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1: This is a situation which he weighed the pros and cons,
Speaker 1: and the subscription made the most sense because that Panera
Speaker 1: Bread subscription is like nine dollars a month, and so
Speaker 1: he was paying nine dollars so he started. But so
Speaker 1: when you go to it now, it's like it's the
Speaker 1: only about like ten bucks, which is I mean, if
Speaker 1: you're able to save close to ninety bucks a month,
Speaker 1: this is I mean, so this is where like jeting
Speaker 1: and tracking your expenses is going to really come in
Speaker 1: handy because I've I feel that though, like those coffee
Speaker 1: expenses could just sort of slip under the radar, you know,
Speaker 1: like you're like, I'm not spending that much, but then
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, wait a minute, I'm actually spending money
Speaker 1: on coffee every single day because I'm a human being.
Speaker 1: And he mentioned Monday through Friday, but man, I'd be
Speaker 1: using that thing on the weekend, not just Monday through
Speaker 1: Friday while I'm on the road. I'm gonna take advantage
Speaker 1: of that seven days a week only. I like the ingenuity, right, yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: because it's one of those things where he said he's
Speaker 1: saving eighty five plus dollars a month now that he's
Speaker 1: doing this subscription. Because if you're getting coffee every day
Speaker 1: out like and you put that in your budget, that's okay.
Speaker 1: But if you could also find a way to save
Speaker 1: right to to do it for like one tenth of
Speaker 1: the price fraction, Yeah, that's impressive. He can kind of
Speaker 1: have your keya, you have your cake and eat it too,
Speaker 1: as long as you can get behind some you know,
Speaker 1: Panera coffee. I don't know what we don't I don't
Speaker 1: know what level it's at, but Kyle Moore powered to
Speaker 1: you I saw too. There's like it's not just coffee, like,
Speaker 1: you can get fountain drinks as well, so you can
Speaker 1: also pull the quick trip move going there and t
Speaker 1: as well, like hot and cold teas. Are you still drinking?
Speaker 1: You're your iced tea at dinner? Like every sweet every
Speaker 1: like a good Southerner you are. Yeah, I was gonna
Speaker 1: say you are such even though I'm not really a Southerner.
Speaker 1: It's it's the Southern way of being and it's you
Speaker 1: do it sweet. Yeah, and not as sweet is like
Speaker 1: you might get at cracker Barrel or something like that.
Speaker 1: But uh yeah, no, I like, I like sweet tea
Speaker 1: for dinner. Caffeine has no effect on you, sir. All right,
Speaker 1: So our beer for this episode is a grisette by
Speaker 1: Jester King, and this one is re fermented with cherries.
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to enjoying this one today. We will
Speaker 1: share our thoughts at the end of the episode. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my assumption is that our thoughts are gonna be positive,
Speaker 1: but we're gonna love it. Yeah, you can wait to
Speaker 1: find out because Jester King. Well, Matt, let's move on.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about negotiating as a as an everyday tactic
Speaker 1: that people can use to win with their finances. And
Speaker 1: I don't know, it made me think, as we're talking
Speaker 1: about negotiation, you just mentioned how people maybe think of
Speaker 1: it wrongly. We're always thinking about it in these big,
Speaker 1: grand terms, when really there are a lot of small,
Speaker 1: everyday ways that we can negotiate and win. Maybe think
Speaker 1: about the way you track your time, and you you've
Speaker 1: been pretty committed to tracking your time. I have been
Speaker 1: in the past. Yeah, and I no longer do that, Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, Well for a while you were, And maybe
Speaker 1: it's just because you found a good group, right, you
Speaker 1: found yourself the way you tracked your time, and then
Speaker 1: you began to implement some new habits, like a self exploration.
Speaker 1: I was just curious to see how much time I
Speaker 1: was spending on different tasks throughout the day, so I tracked.
Speaker 1: For folks who haven't been listening more than a year,
Speaker 1: I guess this is like maybe two years ago, Laura
Speaker 1: vanderham on two to three years ago. Yeah, I was
Speaker 1: around that time, and I was literally tracking every minute
Speaker 1: of the day, like I had this app going on
Speaker 1: my phone, and I made fun of you know, any
Speaker 1: of those minutes time the day based on the way
Speaker 1: you were. Now, I just switched from one activity to
Speaker 1: the next, and I wasn't getting to too detailed with it,
Speaker 1: but just general swallos of the day. I was curious, what,
Speaker 1: you know, what I was spending my time on in
Speaker 1: order just to hopefully be more efficient with my time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I thought you were being kind of nerdy. And
Speaker 1: maybe it is. It's a nerdy your thing, Like that's
Speaker 1: not a normal thing, right, I talked smack about you
Speaker 1: behind the scenes. Well, you know, and I'm just like
Speaker 1: a less regimented person and I'm more prone to do
Speaker 1: things on a whim. It's not for you, but like,
Speaker 1: there're certainly flaws with my personality tendency, right, I tend
Speaker 1: to throw the baby out with the bathwater when I
Speaker 1: when I should at least consider the benefits of something
Speaker 1: as simple as managing my time more effectively and trying
Speaker 1: to implement something that would help me do that. And
Speaker 1: so I guess what something I thought was unimportant or
Speaker 1: at least uncool not with my ever is maybe something is.
Speaker 1: It's something I've found more meaningful recently because I've been
Speaker 1: able to find a balance between tracking my time in
Speaker 1: some ways to make sure that I'm being effective. I
Speaker 1: have no desire to go to down to the minute
Speaker 1: detail or second detail of my life and and track
Speaker 1: it that extensively. But still I think in much the
Speaker 1: same way, right when it comes to negotiation, there's a
Speaker 1: potential for meaningful value. Right that people might think it's
Speaker 1: not worth their time to think about it, uh and
Speaker 1: doing it regularly learning how to do it well. But
Speaker 1: but like me, when it comes to time management, you
Speaker 1: might be wrong, and you might find that there are
Speaker 1: there are ways at least that you can incorporate it
Speaker 1: into your life that will provide enough results and maybe
Speaker 1: it'll make you kind of rethink the endeavor and kind
Speaker 1: of make you more interested and actually going down that path. Sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, like being able to manage your time well.
Speaker 1: Like we are here to argue that negotiating is something
Speaker 1: that can benefit you regardless of what stage of life
Speaker 1: you're in, right, like whether you you're a student school,
Speaker 1: whether you are a stay at home parent, or even
Speaker 1: a CEO. We think that negotiating has sort of like
Speaker 1: the special universal quality to it. But one of the
Speaker 1: problems is that oftentimes folks are just too scared to
Speaker 1: negotiate fear is certainly something that holds us back much
Speaker 1: of the time, as a lot of us have been raised,
Speaker 1: I think to ruffle as as few feathers as possible.
Speaker 1: You know, I gotta wanna paint with too broad of
Speaker 1: a brush. But like I believe that younger generations ours
Speaker 1: included as millennials, that were particularly prone to avoid any
Speaker 1: social discomfort that that might come about because of conflict.
Speaker 1: Just makes me think of how will might send like
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty or forty texts in order to uh
Speaker 1: distance ourselves from a potential awkward situation, right when we
Speaker 1: know that if we just picked up the phone and
Speaker 1: called our parents back or got back to our friend,
Speaker 1: it would help to clarify things. And granted there are
Speaker 1: times there's there's a time in place for text messages,
Speaker 1: for sure, but there's sort of this ongoing joke I
Speaker 1: feel like with millennials and zoomers, where it's like I'm
Speaker 1: not going to pick up the phone, like I'm not
Speaker 1: going to talk to you in person when we know
Speaker 1: that that would be a more effective way to communicate.
Speaker 1: But oftentimes I think we're doing that in order to
Speaker 1: preserve any sort of uh, to keep away any conflict
Speaker 1: to not ruffle those feathers. And you know the other
Speaker 1: realities that folks often don't know how to negotiate well.
Speaker 1: They're they're unsure about how to do it well. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so it's not necessarily that you didn't want your
Speaker 1: time to be spent wisely, Joel. You just hadn't tried
Speaker 1: to implement maybe a system that helped you to do that,
Speaker 1: or maybe I was just thinking about it wrong and
Speaker 1: I thought that to be more effective with my time,
Speaker 1: I had to track it in the way you were
Speaker 1: doing it, which was pretty granular, and I was like,
Speaker 1: that's that's too intense for me. It doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: I don't want my time to be spent well, and
Speaker 1: then I could find something that is going to be
Speaker 1: better for for that. And even though like generally like
Speaker 1: a nerdy concept, that doesn't mean that being able to
Speaker 1: manage your time more effectively like that's going to benefit
Speaker 1: anybody and everybody. And so in the same way, we
Speaker 1: feel that way about negotiating. So we want to dispel
Speaker 1: some of these preconceived notions about what negotiation does and
Speaker 1: what it doesn't involve. Today, we're gonna offer our best
Speaker 1: advice for for how you can start implementing some beneficial
Speaker 1: tactics in your everyday life, helping you to to save
Speaker 1: more money, to make more money as well, and you know,
Speaker 1: just pursue more of what it is that you value. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's first maybe talk a little bit about what negotiating
Speaker 1: is and isn't, because I think sometimes one of the
Speaker 1: biggest common myths is that people think a shrewd negotiator
Speaker 1: is screwing people over left and right. Sure, and so
Speaker 1: that in order to effectively get what you want, somebody
Speaker 1: else has to get run over in the process. They
Speaker 1: often there's a fixed amount of pizza, get more, and
Speaker 1: therefore maybe maybe it's not unfair or maybe I'm hurting
Speaker 1: someone in the process. That's their city mindset. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: they think that it's maybe some sort of conflict ridden
Speaker 1: exercise too. But again that's a myth, because the best
Speaker 1: negotiators to actually leave the other side feeling like they
Speaker 1: gotta win. Also, so, yeah, if you're negotiating and you're
Speaker 1: leaving a bad taste in someone's mouth because your tactics
Speaker 1: are too ruthless, they're not likely to want much to
Speaker 1: do with you in the future, meaning that you lost. Also,
Speaker 1: that's not the right you want to take. You've you've
Speaker 1: lost the overall war, right Like you may have one
Speaker 1: that that one particular battle, that skirmish, but not the
Speaker 1: overall war. Right. Yeah, it makes me think of I
Speaker 1: don't know. One of the most common things I think
Speaker 1: about as a baseball fan when it comes to negotiating,
Speaker 1: is the trade deadline pass just a few weeks ago?
Speaker 1: Oh did it it? Did? They are all these trades
Speaker 1: flying around, especially the last couple of days. It's like
Speaker 1: trading a couple of prospects for a major league player
Speaker 1: or everyone one of those major league players from major
Speaker 1: league player deals. Sometimes there's cash thrown in and stuff
Speaker 1: into these deals as well. But let's say a baseball
Speaker 1: GM he pulls the wool over another GM's eyes, and
Speaker 1: that's harder to do because he typically have the same
Speaker 1: information at their disposal. But let's say you did you
Speaker 1: just he fully took advantage of somebody to work for
Speaker 1: another club. Well, that's going to prevent future opportunities to
Speaker 1: make good trades, right, and that could ultimately hamstring his
Speaker 1: efforts in the long run. And so yeah, this this typically,
Speaker 1: by the way, negotiation, it's not typically a one time thing.
Speaker 1: You don't want to sour a relationship by taking advantage
Speaker 1: of the other party. That's an important part to mention
Speaker 1: here because that's sort of mentality. Thinking of negotiation as
Speaker 1: this one off chance to try to like destroy somebody
Speaker 1: else is the exact opposite of what you're trying to
Speaker 1: accomplish a totally. It's worth mentioning as well, that negotiating
Speaker 1: it's considered normal in other cultures and in other countries
Speaker 1: because oftentimes in our culture we're used to more of
Speaker 1: a fixed price sort of market. Here, typically you can't
Speaker 1: really negotiate the price of a box of cheerios or
Speaker 1: a gallon of milk at Walmart or at your local
Speaker 1: Aldi or Costco. That we just generally do a lot
Speaker 1: less haggling than a lot of cultures, whereas in countries
Speaker 1: like in the Middle East and in Turkey, Egypt, over
Speaker 1: in down in Central America, haggling it's the normal way
Speaker 1: of doing business. Makes me think back to when I
Speaker 1: was in high school and I was in Guatemala City.
Speaker 1: Right outside of Guatemala City, there is a market and
Speaker 1: we were encouraged, like as high schoolers are like hey,
Speaker 1: well they're gonna say a price, and they're basically the
Speaker 1: folks who are with us, we're teaching us how to
Speaker 1: haggle because they know, as American teenagers that we had
Speaker 1: zero experience doing that basically, And so it was a
Speaker 1: lot of fun figuring out how to uh negotiate down
Speaker 1: the price of the machete that I was trying to buy, which, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. As a high schooler, I bought a machete.
Speaker 1: And yes, this was obviously pre uh nine eleven. Um
Speaker 1: for all the Stoomers out there, you used to be
Speaker 1: able to travel with the chetti's on the airplane. I
Speaker 1: hadn't really thought about the fact that, yeah, like somehow
Speaker 1: I came back and remember I have that at home.
Speaker 1: It's like this uh Guatemala machete. All right, well you
Speaker 1: should whip that out. And you know, I don't think
Speaker 1: I have an intra weeds under control the front lawn. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: it makes me think of when I visited China back
Speaker 1: in two thousand nine, and I did not buy machete,
Speaker 1: but I bought like a pair of shorts. I had
Speaker 1: left my swim trucks and home I totally forgot to
Speaker 1: bring any and so I need more by a part. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and I can actually bring those someone the plane. But
Speaker 1: I distinctly just remember haggling with this, with this, with
Speaker 1: this lady in the market over these shorts, and I
Speaker 1: just thought it was a blast. I thought it was
Speaker 1: fun to kind of this this back and forth and
Speaker 1: even just like the reactions, right, the facial reactions from
Speaker 1: the person who's doing this, Like how they seem like
Speaker 1: it's like a dance. Oh yeah, it's exactly. It's exactly
Speaker 1: like a dance, and they kind of like fake being
Speaker 1: insulted or something like that, and then they come back
Speaker 1: at you, and I just remember just how fun that
Speaker 1: game was. And I think, I think Matt, you're right, like,
Speaker 1: if you can think of negotiation more as a game
Speaker 1: instead of like this butting of heads, you'll be far
Speaker 1: more likely to engage in it, even if it's like
Speaker 1: not seen as terribly normal here in the United States.
Speaker 1: We can take kind of a lesson from some of
Speaker 1: these other cultures how how they do it, how they
Speaker 1: perform this negotiation dance, and I think you can kind
Speaker 1: of think of it similarly. Sure, but just because you
Speaker 1: we think about it that way doesn't necessarily mean that
Speaker 1: everybody else will think of it that way, right, and
Speaker 1: so uh, in that way, though, I think we should
Speaker 1: probably think less about what other people think. Like Warren
Speaker 1: Buffett talks about the interscore card versus the external scorecard
Speaker 1: and how we oftentimes we probably need to be spending
Speaker 1: more time on the interscore card and what matters to
Speaker 1: us as opposed to what everybody what everybody else thinks.
Speaker 1: And so bottom line, we think that there's more room
Speaker 1: to negotiate on the daily than you think. Joel, you
Speaker 1: read this book Uh Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss,
Speaker 1: and you're like, yeah, we gotta talk about negotiating, I think.
Speaker 1: And I was like, but but there's a way for
Speaker 1: us to apply this specifically to kind of personal finance
Speaker 1: and money. Yeah, And so that's what we're doing today.
Speaker 1: We're gonna discuss some of these ways to negotiate better, uh,
Speaker 1: and we also provide some examples so that you can
Speaker 1: have an idea of how and when to apply these
Speaker 1: techniques for maximum effectiveness. And you know, one of the
Speaker 1: first things that we would encourage for you to do
Speaker 1: is to identify the pain point of whoever it is
Speaker 1: that you're negotiating because you you know what it is
Speaker 1: that you want, right, it's the reason that you're having
Speaker 1: a conversation, uh to begin with. And you also already
Speaker 1: know what it is the other person wants, because either
Speaker 1: they've listed that item for sale or they've called you
Speaker 1: into their office and they're talking about a raise. But
Speaker 1: now it's it's going to be important for you to
Speaker 1: try and identify why it is they want what they want.
Speaker 1: And so, for for instance, it makes me think if
Speaker 1: you've been eyeing a TV on Facebook marketplace, right, some
Speaker 1: of those pain points are easily decipherable from just like
Speaker 1: looking at the listing real quick. Right, Like one of
Speaker 1: those is just how long it's been listed, because most
Speaker 1: folks they're gonna get tired of fielding the uh is
Speaker 1: this is this item still available questions after a while.
Speaker 1: If I've filled a ten of those with no follow throughs,
Speaker 1: someone actually a series about following through You're like, I'm
Speaker 1: already how can I sell this to you as quickly
Speaker 1: as possible in prim negotiating territory, like you can kind
Speaker 1: of come at me with some some decent offers and
Speaker 1: I'll consider it exactly. Yeah, so you're gonna have more
Speaker 1: room to negotiate if that TV has been listed for
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks rather than if it's just been
Speaker 1: there for a couple of days. Um. Also, like like TVs,
Speaker 1: they're they're kind of big, you know, And so there's
Speaker 1: a good chance that they might just want it out
Speaker 1: of the garage or just out of the laundry room
Speaker 1: wherever they have it. So your ability to get a
Speaker 1: better price might be a direct reflection of your ability
Speaker 1: to pay cash and to pick it up today. Figure
Speaker 1: out what it is that they're wanting the most, other
Speaker 1: than in this case money, and find a way to
Speaker 1: meet them at that need. Yeah, yeah, I agree, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And sometimes it is just the timing right. People want
Speaker 1: it to be simple. And if you say, listen, if
Speaker 1: you'll take this much less, I will come pick it
Speaker 1: up within the next hour, I will. I will be
Speaker 1: in my car and on my way. I will make
Speaker 1: it super simple. I will have cash in hand. And
Speaker 1: that can sway somebody to accept a lower price than
Speaker 1: they would they were previously otherwise disposed to taking. And
Speaker 1: it's it's important to know, by the way, that not
Speaker 1: everything is negotiable, right, But when you can identify the
Speaker 1: pain point, you'll find that negotiating can be a reality
Speaker 1: in more situations than you previously thought. It's kind of
Speaker 1: like we talked about Matt when we talked about negotiating
Speaker 1: a rent decrease or how a lot of people are
Speaker 1: you know, keeping it rent from going up, basically finding
Speaker 1: a way to keep it keep it steady. Well, you
Speaker 1: can negotiate, but you've got to figure out what the
Speaker 1: landlord's dilemma is. That's how Justin Pogue phrased it when
Speaker 1: we brought him on the show. And when you know
Speaker 1: what that land the landlord's pain point is, you can
Speaker 1: address it in order to secure better terms for both
Speaker 1: your landlord and yourself. You know, for a landlord, that
Speaker 1: pain point could be losing a tenant that's been incredibly easy.
Speaker 1: So let's say you are that tenant that has been
Speaker 1: you've been a dream to work with rents early. Yeah,
Speaker 1: not asking for silly things like a light bulb to
Speaker 1: be replaced. You're basically relieving a landlord pain point and
Speaker 1: it's gonna make it easier to negotiate. And let's say, um,
Speaker 1: they might be worried about vacancy, right, so if you
Speaker 1: move out, they might be the landlord might be worried
Speaker 1: that they they're gonna lose a whole month of rent.
Speaker 1: And if you know that they're worried about that that
Speaker 1: they might not be able to get someone in time,
Speaker 1: that gives you more leverage at the negotiating table. There
Speaker 1: might be maybe, let's say, some deferred maintenance that they're
Speaker 1: going to have to take care of if you to
Speaker 1: move out to All of these things could be points
Speaker 1: at which you can press to help ensure that you're
Speaker 1: able to get and negotiate a lower rent amount. And
Speaker 1: so deciphering the pain point sometimes it's intuitive, but it
Speaker 1: can also involve asking a few questions, a few pointing questions.
Speaker 1: And so we're talking about negotiating rent map, but but
Speaker 1: using that dilemma that somebody has, you know, how can
Speaker 1: I make it easier for them? What? What is their
Speaker 1: reason for selling? And what would make them need to
Speaker 1: sell it to me in a discount? Asking those questions
Speaker 1: is going to be a huge part of negotiating a
Speaker 1: better deal for yourself. Yeah, and and not just asking
Speaker 1: yourself those questions like right like not just you say, okay,
Speaker 1: what is it that he wants? Or you know, she
Speaker 1: has been hesitant to raise my rent over the past
Speaker 1: two years, what about my you know me being a
Speaker 1: renter has allowed her to keep rent from going up.
Speaker 1: It's not just you asking yourself those questions, but literally
Speaker 1: asking them those questions, right, because if you don't have
Speaker 1: any idea what it is that could allow you to
Speaker 1: further the negotiations or for further in this example, keeping
Speaker 1: your rent low, let's right. And so what that means,
Speaker 1: I think is oftentimes just asking some of these open
Speaker 1: ended questions where you can courteously put the ball in
Speaker 1: their court and allow them to potentially disclose some information
Speaker 1: that can allow you to say, well, I can do that.
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, you're you're looking for that, Like, I'm
Speaker 1: happy to do that, and what'll that get me? That
Speaker 1: information that you can glean from being an active listener
Speaker 1: is going to be so important when it comes to
Speaker 1: your ability, in this case, to save a bunch of money.
Speaker 1: I think something it's so similar. Let's say you're buying
Speaker 1: a house, and often times it's hard to know why
Speaker 1: a buyer is selling, what their biggest pain point is,
Speaker 1: and especially right now right is the market is softening.
Speaker 1: You need to work with your realtor to ask some
Speaker 1: of these more difficult questions so you can figure out, well,
Speaker 1: how can I get the biggest discount on this house
Speaker 1: that I that I want um by finding that person's
Speaker 1: pain point, and maybe it is they need to be out,
Speaker 1: they've bought a house in another state, and time is
Speaker 1: of the essence. And so if you're able to close
Speaker 1: in two weeks, let's talk about speed. Yeah, you might
Speaker 1: be able to get an extra ten fi off of
Speaker 1: the currently listed price. Right, or they might be willing
Speaker 1: to take less money because they are worried that if
Speaker 1: they move out of state that that house is going
Speaker 1: to linger even longer, costing them more money in the future.
Speaker 1: So these are the kind of things we're knowing the
Speaker 1: pain point, asking the question and then listening well can
Speaker 1: make a big difference in your ability to negotiate effectively. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is an instance we're having. Some flexibility is key
Speaker 1: because if you can alter your plans a little bit,
Speaker 1: if you can again meet them where they are, you
Speaker 1: have an opportunity to save a lot of money. But
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about several other factors that are going
Speaker 1: to help you to become a more effective negotiator, and
Speaker 1: we will get to all of those right after this.
Speaker 1: All Right, now we are we're kind of talking about
Speaker 1: the the art of negotiation on today's episode. Haggling is
Speaker 1: one way you can put it in some context. But yeah,
Speaker 1: when we're talking I think I think there's a certain
Speaker 1: art to it because if you can um play your
Speaker 1: cards right and if you can know how get more
Speaker 1: information on your side, and then if you can handle
Speaker 1: the negotiation process in a more educated manner, there's more
Speaker 1: of an opportunity for you to save more money and
Speaker 1: make more money. So yeah, I think there's an element
Speaker 1: of art when we're talking about negotiations, and it just
Speaker 1: varies from item and to item or from instance to instance,
Speaker 1: right like that, Like there's no like twelve step program
Speaker 1: that you can go through. It's important to kind of
Speaker 1: keep things, you know in mind some of these different factors, um,
Speaker 1: not all of these will necessarily apply equally when it
Speaker 1: comes to the wheel and dealing that you're doing. And
Speaker 1: we're gonna try to give a lot of examples throughout
Speaker 1: today's episode that will help you see, like, Okay, here's
Speaker 1: everyday place in which it's gonna make sense for me,
Speaker 1: and and here's maybe how I can tackle that or
Speaker 1: where or where this piece of advice comes into play
Speaker 1: more readily. But yeah, one one thing that's really important
Speaker 1: when we're talking about negotiating effectively is knowing the market,
Speaker 1: because another step when we're talking about getting more bang
Speaker 1: for your buck, it involves doing your homework. And if
Speaker 1: you don't know the market, you're bound to negotiate poorly
Speaker 1: or get taken advantage of. It's it's gonna be hard
Speaker 1: to know what to ask for. So if you're looking
Speaker 1: to get some work done on your place, let's say
Speaker 1: you know that often involves getting multiple quotes, and so
Speaker 1: that the more information you have at your disposal, which
Speaker 1: takes a little bit time, takes a little bit of
Speaker 1: legwork to get those multiple quotes, the more informs you're
Speaker 1: going to be, the more likely you're gonna be able
Speaker 1: to negotiate well and make a wise decision. For instance, Matt,
Speaker 1: like when we've talked about when it comes to getting
Speaker 1: a mortgage on the home you're buying, or let's say
Speaker 1: you're you're shopping around for a refinance shop with multiple lenders, right,
Speaker 1: because that's going to give you this apples to apples comparison,
Speaker 1: and I have negotiated with lenders before and said what
Speaker 1: your origination fee is? But I've got this other uh,
Speaker 1: this other lender and they said that the origination fee
Speaker 1: is is seven seventy five fifty babe, right, yeah, my
Speaker 1: costco refile last year. See that's too shabby. But when
Speaker 1: you see the when it's written out in paper, you
Speaker 1: have these quotes in front of you, then you can
Speaker 1: kind of hit these providers against each other and you
Speaker 1: can ask them to match somebody else's rate. But if
Speaker 1: you don't have that information on hand, it's harder to
Speaker 1: know what other people are offering. It's harder to even
Speaker 1: know what to ask for. You're just kind of shooting
Speaker 1: blindly in the dark asking for a discount, um. But
Speaker 1: if you have information on your side, makes it a
Speaker 1: whole lot easier to confidently ask for a better rate
Speaker 1: or better terms. Totally. Yeah, negotiating your internet bill right like,
Speaker 1: that's something we've encouraged for years now on how the money. Uh,
Speaker 1: And it's not as difficult as it seems. But before
Speaker 1: you hop on the phone, it's going to be incredibly
Speaker 1: helpful for you to know the popular rates. So the
Speaker 1: biggest providers are offering in your area, and so a
Speaker 1: quick search you know of their website will arm you
Speaker 1: with just helpful information. Basically, like the only information that
Speaker 1: you need if you're trying to lower your Internet that
Speaker 1: the price that you're paying their their TV ads the
Speaker 1: little often tout special offers for new customers, and of
Speaker 1: course you want the best rate out there. But knowing
Speaker 1: what those best rates are, you know, knowing the market like,
Speaker 1: that's going to give you the information to make the
Speaker 1: right ask. Yeah, instead of saying, I just want twenty
Speaker 1: bucks off every single month moving forward, you can say, actually,
Speaker 1: here's an offer that I saw that you you have
Speaker 1: on your website, and this is for new customers. But
Speaker 1: I've been a loyal customer for three plus years or
Speaker 1: something like that, and you know, I would prefer not
Speaker 1: to go over to this other company that has a
Speaker 1: better rate than what I'm paying now, But can you
Speaker 1: match it. I'm a frugal guy, right, and I'll do it, yeah,
Speaker 1: and really, but I would prefer to stay. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's a way to to to go about this, but
Speaker 1: so much of it involved having the right information, knowing
Speaker 1: what's going on in the market. Total and timing is
Speaker 1: part of that. Too, Matt, because there's a reason that
Speaker 1: people are more apt, let's say, to get a deal
Speaker 1: on a new car at the end of the month.
Speaker 1: Not that we encouraged buying new cars, but because of
Speaker 1: the reality of quotas in that industry, there's just a
Speaker 1: higher necessity for that salesperson to make a sale. If
Speaker 1: it's September, then if it's September one, right, and so
Speaker 1: just because of the timing, the market conditions are more
Speaker 1: ripe for you to be able to get a better deal.
Speaker 1: You're starting out in a better position. But knowing that,
Speaker 1: knowing that that's how the market works when you're buying
Speaker 1: a new car, can help you use that to your advantage.
Speaker 1: Whereas if you don't realize that, if that's not something
Speaker 1: that's on your radar, you're liable to find yourself negotiating
Speaker 1: at the wrong time, putting yourself at a bigger disadvantage. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and basically what we're talking about here is we are
Speaker 1: encouraging folks to put in the legwork, and this is
Speaker 1: something that we are prone to avoid extra work. We
Speaker 1: want things to be easy and handed to us, which
Speaker 1: is why companies who are really good at providing a
Speaker 1: service or providing a product on a silver platter. Oftentimes
Speaker 1: we'll get folks business because folks don't want to go
Speaker 1: through all of that. The due diligence, essentially when it
Speaker 1: comes to shopping around, well, the easier we make it
Speaker 1: for ourselves, the less likely we are to be able
Speaker 1: to get get a deal, right, to save money or
Speaker 1: to make more. And so you can take the easy path,
Speaker 1: but the easy path isn't typically gonna work out best
Speaker 1: for your bottom line. Yeah, And so as we're talking
Speaker 1: about negotiating, you know, there are a number of more
Speaker 1: like more subtle factors that are important to keep in
Speaker 1: mind as well, in particular if you are talking to
Speaker 1: somebody in person, right, like if you are talking with
Speaker 1: a contractor about hey, let's let's talk about the cost
Speaker 1: of this roof, or you're looking at gutters or something
Speaker 1: like that. Um, and one the things you need to
Speaker 1: keep in mind is your tone, right and so like,
Speaker 1: if you're coming in with guns blazing, like, that's typically
Speaker 1: gonna be like the opposite of how it is that
Speaker 1: you're gonna want to approach a negotiation. Yeah you can, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't want to necessarily start by being like, but
Speaker 1: your work isn't very good, and so I actually get
Speaker 1: a discount because you're not talented, or just like immediately
Speaker 1: cutting straight to the price and just being confrontational about
Speaker 1: how you're talking about the work that they're doing and
Speaker 1: what they're charging. Uh. If you if you read the
Speaker 1: book Never Split the Difference, the author Chris he talks
Speaker 1: about using like this FM DJ voice that inflects downward,
Speaker 1: kind of like a soothing yet in control voice. Uh.
Speaker 1: And it's probably it's gonna be less necessary, you know,
Speaker 1: like the smaller sorts of negotiating that we're talking about.
Speaker 1: But but how you come across is going to impact
Speaker 1: your ability to negotiate effectively. You know, you you'll likely
Speaker 1: want to use a different tone depending on who you
Speaker 1: are negotiating with, But being in control of your emotions
Speaker 1: and using the right tone is going to be crucial.
Speaker 1: And it makes me think about if you are like
Speaker 1: budgeting with a significant other or your partner, if you're
Speaker 1: coming in hots and you immediately, you know, are like
Speaker 1: attacking them because maybe they overspent that month or maybe
Speaker 1: you are not on the same page about where they
Speaker 1: are spending their money. Well, how do you think they're
Speaker 1: gonna respond. You know, I do a little bit of
Speaker 1: role playing here. Imagine that scenario. We're just like you
Speaker 1: can you spend how much on on what and you
Speaker 1: might be able to efficiently communicate how it is that
Speaker 1: you feel. But this is one of those areas where
Speaker 1: efficiency is not the name of the game. It's you know,
Speaker 1: it's about getting that person on board. You want to
Speaker 1: be able to sink up with that person before finding
Speaker 1: ways that you can both together identify what your financial
Speaker 1: goals are. Sort of like you're saying earlier, Jill, like
Speaker 1: this that would be maybe be an instance of winning
Speaker 1: a particular battle but losing the overall war. Because as
Speaker 1: someone who is right now listening to how the money,
Speaker 1: that means you are most likely the financial nerd in
Speaker 1: in whatever relationship you might be in. And so that
Speaker 1: means you might have a reluctant spouse or partner. And
Speaker 1: what that means is that you need to be patient
Speaker 1: and understanding and uh, just I don't know kinds And
Speaker 1: a lot of being kind is how it is that
Speaker 1: you're talking to somebody. Well, let's say some new information
Speaker 1: came to light and you realize that, wait, I'm getting
Speaker 1: paid fifteen percent less than I, then I think I
Speaker 1: should get paid are I now know a co worker
Speaker 1: gets paid more than me and they've got less experience,
Speaker 1: and so you might feel jilted. And so in that conversation,
Speaker 1: your tone might reflect the fact that you feel like
Speaker 1: you're getting screwed. And guess what, that is not the
Speaker 1: best way to negotiate. That might make you feel the
Speaker 1: most Catharsism by telling your employer that they have that
Speaker 1: they've hurt you and that you deserve to get paid more.
Speaker 1: Then that might be in reality that might be true,
Speaker 1: but that is typically also the least effective way to negotiate.
Speaker 1: By by letting your tone shift and kind of letting
Speaker 1: letting that the way you've been you felt hurt kind
Speaker 1: of dictate the conversation you I mean, you want to
Speaker 1: be truthful, you want to use those facts, and so
Speaker 1: it's not that you want to withhold information. I guess
Speaker 1: that's up to you on how important and how revealing
Speaker 1: you want to be with it with the cards that
Speaker 1: you have, But you still want to approach conversation like
Speaker 1: that with with the proper tone and not just your
Speaker 1: tone as well. But like even it makes me think
Speaker 1: of like, uh, like your body language, and like like
Speaker 1: the different nonverbals that you're communicating as well, because you
Speaker 1: might be saying one thing to your boss, but if
Speaker 1: your face says something else, it doesn't matter what you're saying.
Speaker 1: They see you grimacing, and so you have to find
Speaker 1: a way to align the nonverbals with what it is
Speaker 1: that you're saying. Man, it makes me think of there
Speaker 1: was something where that came to light where you and
Speaker 1: I had to negotiate something on behalf of our company,
Speaker 1: and we could have used some information that came to
Speaker 1: light to our advantage, but we realized that that wasn't
Speaker 1: the best negotiating tactic, that it would have made us
Speaker 1: seem like we were hurt by something that hadn't worked
Speaker 1: out in our favor, and so there was a better
Speaker 1: way to approach it, even if those facts on the
Speaker 1: ground were true, and we need to have that conversation, right, Um,
Speaker 1: But it makes me think about emotions, right, and how
Speaker 1: you know, one of the ways that you keep your
Speaker 1: tone aligned is by controlling your emotions. And if we
Speaker 1: leave our emotions unchecked, it's gonna hurt our ability to negotiate.
Speaker 1: So um, getting angry, irritated or or even allowing our
Speaker 1: anxiety to kind of take over and allow fear to
Speaker 1: kind of um run amuck can impact our ability to
Speaker 1: have that productive conversation. And I think it's okay to
Speaker 1: maybe be somewhat annoyed, even let's say, when you're negotiating,
Speaker 1: because we are human, of course, But the crucial part,
Speaker 1: the crucial thing, is to make sure that we're not
Speaker 1: wearing those emotions on our sleeve. So we've got to
Speaker 1: be able to find a way to prevent it from
Speaker 1: impacting our our style, our tone, and our argument. Even
Speaker 1: if you know we're not excited about how the conversation
Speaker 1: is currently going, there's a way in which we can
Speaker 1: keep those emotions in check which allows for us to
Speaker 1: be able to work together with someone to achieve our goal,
Speaker 1: even if the experience is kind of a frustrating one
Speaker 1: makes me think, Matt, about a recent negotiation I've had
Speaker 1: to have with a company that I bought a grill
Speaker 1: from just at the fairy tale end of last year,
Speaker 1: and I have a year long manufacturer's warranty. But this
Speaker 1: grill sadly is having severe issues in many different ways,
Speaker 1: and so the squirrel company keeps wanting to send me
Speaker 1: little parts here and there to fix the problem. But
Speaker 1: there are just too many issues going on with a
Speaker 1: grill that a couple of parts, They're not going to
Speaker 1: fix it. Lemon, I think it's a lemon. Just need
Speaker 1: to send you a new grill, exactly, And so that's
Speaker 1: what I'm pressing for. But I could easily allow my
Speaker 1: annoyance at how long it's taking or their inability to
Speaker 1: resolve things. I could let that, um, I could let
Speaker 1: that frustration take over me, and it would really shut
Speaker 1: things down. But I'm finding a way to keep my
Speaker 1: tone upbeat and to keep my emotions at bay so
Speaker 1: that I can continue to have a productive conversation with
Speaker 1: the person who's ultimately I think gonna be able to
Speaker 1: resolve this, uh, this problem in my favor. As the
Speaker 1: time comes when you realize that it's time to go nuclear,
Speaker 1: to start shouting on the phone, perhaps, I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess it's important to keep your emotions in check, but
Speaker 1: at times it's important to kind of deploy your emotions
Speaker 1: if you do feel that the time is right. Most
Speaker 1: of the time, yeah, most of ore, it's not gonna
Speaker 1: work out, and usually it shuts things down and that
Speaker 1: person has far less of a desire to help you
Speaker 1: if you're being out of control, if you're being a baby,
Speaker 1: and if you're the last resorts um and even still
Speaker 1: you still want to treat. It's okay to be emotional
Speaker 1: and to share how did you feel about something, but
Speaker 1: you still need to treat the other person with respect.
Speaker 1: Another component as well is that you need to be
Speaker 1: willing to walk because if you just got to have
Speaker 1: the item that you are negotiating for, I think your
Speaker 1: negotiation skills are going to suffer. You know, like that's
Speaker 1: another example of letting emotions run the show, and that's
Speaker 1: gonna lead to poor results. Having a plan B that
Speaker 1: is going to give you more of an ability to
Speaker 1: walk away if you aren't able to get the terms
Speaker 1: or to get the price that you're looking for, Because
Speaker 1: if you're unwilling to walk away, then there's almost no
Speaker 1: chance that you're going to be able to do the
Speaker 1: work that it takes to get that item on better terms.
Speaker 1: This is an instance where caring less is is essentially
Speaker 1: going to be a winning strategy. It's not always easy,
Speaker 1: but we think it is necessary. Uh. And again this
Speaker 1: is when like you can make a confident decision and
Speaker 1: walk away when you've done your homework, when you have
Speaker 1: have participated in some market research and you know what's
Speaker 1: out there, because it's difficult to say, well, well but
Speaker 1: that's it, I'm I'm out of here, because well that
Speaker 1: might be the only one, right, Like, if we're talking
Speaker 1: about homes, for instance, if there are no other homes
Speaker 1: in this particular neighborhood that you're you're looking to move into,
Speaker 1: well you probably need to be a little bit more
Speaker 1: careful with how you negotiate. But if they are like
Speaker 1: six or seven homes in this neighborhood, well it's it's
Speaker 1: gonna be a different story and you can more easily,
Speaker 1: I think, walk away. And so having done that research,
Speaker 1: that's really important. Although I will say in this particular example,
Speaker 1: walking away from a home it is probably gonna be
Speaker 1: one of the more difficult things, right because just the
Speaker 1: way we process things, how we view houses or apartments
Speaker 1: or wherever you're looking to potentially buy, like we see
Speaker 1: we see our homes is almost like an extension of ourselves, right,
Speaker 1: And so it's difficult to be like, Okay, does this
Speaker 1: place provide me shelter? Is this a place where I
Speaker 1: can sleep at night like, that's not how we view homes,
Speaker 1: even though we would probably try to encourage folks to
Speaker 1: think about their homes more in that way. Agreed, because
Speaker 1: you almost have to in order to be a good negotiator,
Speaker 1: and and you're right, you might really like a place,
Speaker 1: but if you fall in love before you've actually been
Speaker 1: able to negotiate effectively, you're probably gonna find yourself getting
Speaker 1: bent over barrel and paying more than you like or
Speaker 1: not getting the terms that you'd like. To be a
Speaker 1: good negotiator really does involve removing some of those emotions
Speaker 1: whenever possible and being willing to walk away as part
Speaker 1: of that. Uh and so yeah. Another another tip mat
Speaker 1: we would say for being able to negotiate effectively is
Speaker 1: building rapport. And that's important because you're you're more likely
Speaker 1: to do better for yourself when the person you're negotiating
Speaker 1: with knows you or beliefs that your intentions are good.
Speaker 1: And that doesn't mean that you've got to try and
Speaker 1: become besties with everyone that you're trying to haggle with,
Speaker 1: but finding some common ground can be a great way
Speaker 1: to help that person feel more comfortable giving you a
Speaker 1: discount or just more favorable terms, and so you can
Speaker 1: use this tactic in so many potential negotiation areas, even
Speaker 1: if you're just on the phone with the Internet company
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, Matt, or if you're d d M
Speaker 1: ing with a company on Twitter. The more you can
Speaker 1: help them see you as an an individual with some
Speaker 1: sort of similarity to them, it often helps the process.
Speaker 1: And so that that can mean getting and using the
Speaker 1: name of the person that you're talking to, making them
Speaker 1: feel connected to you by using their actual name. If
Speaker 1: Cindy picks up the phone and you're like, Hey, Cindy,
Speaker 1: how's your day going, that's a great way to show
Speaker 1: that you care. And it goes a long way that
Speaker 1: you're you're using their name and like asking how their
Speaker 1: day is going. That's another thing. Um, it can create
Speaker 1: a common spark of humanity that makes them more likely
Speaker 1: to do something to help you. Carrying just a little
Speaker 1: bit can go a long way. I think most of
Speaker 1: the times we don't want to, like we're speaking to
Speaker 1: literally a one number person, just want to get it done.
Speaker 1: You just want to get it done. But if we
Speaker 1: just want to get it done, we're probably not going
Speaker 1: to get the best result. Yeah, we're we're less likely to,
Speaker 1: we believe. And sometimes they can just be as simple
Speaker 1: as identifying like where they live, you know, like where
Speaker 1: they're located, like geographically if they are your neighbor, well,
Speaker 1: like that can initiate like one kind of discussion that
Speaker 1: finds you know, a significant amount of common ground if
Speaker 1: it's if you've listed something on Facebook and they can
Speaker 1: over your place or vice versa. But even if they
Speaker 1: don't live in your community. I think there are often
Speaker 1: ways to build rapport via like a location specific discussion.
Speaker 1: But the truth is that you won't always have common
Speaker 1: ground with everyone that that you're trying to negotiate with,
Speaker 1: especially if we're talking about, you know, a phone conversation
Speaker 1: with a utility company. But but you can help that
Speaker 1: person to feel understood, which creates trust. And so what
Speaker 1: is it that they need to feel like they've done
Speaker 1: a done their job well? Because knowing what success looks
Speaker 1: like for them can help you to to kind of
Speaker 1: usher in that that win win scenario, like we talked
Speaker 1: about early on, like do they have one of those
Speaker 1: surveys that takes place at the end of the call
Speaker 1: and they're like you can be like, hey, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if you're doing a survey, but I would love
Speaker 1: to give you high remarks. You're doing a fantastic job,
Speaker 1: exactly right. Those little things man a job for me, Like, okay,
Speaker 1: So it makes me think of too, Like I keep
Speaker 1: thinking about Facebook because I've been listening so much stuff
Speaker 1: on Facebook. But I listed a TV, an old TV
Speaker 1: that we had, but it was a nice TV. It
Speaker 1: was the same song, and guy was interested. He came over.
Speaker 1: He was checking it out, and he starts in the
Speaker 1: negotiating process on me, and he's just like, all right,
Speaker 1: you know how much how much would you would you
Speaker 1: be wanting to take you know, this much off? And
Speaker 1: he's there in person. He's nobody else has shown up
Speaker 1: to look at it, like this guy is here. And
Speaker 1: so he's like, okay, I know this guy wants to
Speaker 1: get rid of this thing he started having having his
Speaker 1: TV in his garage. His wife wants it gone. That's me.
Speaker 1: But I thought, man, like I think that that TV
Speaker 1: is priced fairly. This is me thinking, you know, in
Speaker 1: my in my own head. And so what I highlighted
Speaker 1: I was I was just like, I'm not sure this
Speaker 1: is this is a Samsung, Like this is one of
Speaker 1: the best TV's out there, Like the picture quality on
Speaker 1: this thing, it's you know, it's a lot better than
Speaker 1: a lot of the other TV's out there. And he
Speaker 1: immediately joins in. Basically it's like, oh, I totally agree.
Speaker 1: Like the TV I've got right now, it's garbage. And
Speaker 1: he basically he begins to talk himself into paying full
Speaker 1: price for my TV because what we've identified our common
Speaker 1: ground is that same song makes quality televisions. And by
Speaker 1: the end of it, he was very He's like, you
Speaker 1: know what, Okay, let's just go ahead and do this,
Speaker 1: and he paid my asking price. He was happy, I
Speaker 1: was happy, and we were able to make that deal happen.
Speaker 1: And that common ground was that him and I we
Speaker 1: both believe that Samsung makes a superior television. You go,
Speaker 1: I'm actually either, by the way, because we've actually talked
Speaker 1: about that before. Actually, how the failure rate on those
Speaker 1: televisions on just regardless of brand, it's pretty minimal. So Matt,
Speaker 1: even though I'm gonna disagree with you on that, um,
Speaker 1: we can still agree to disagree, Crystal clear Baby, Still,
Speaker 1: that was still a good point. Though We've got just
Speaker 1: a few more thoughts when it comes to negotiation, and
Speaker 1: and we we should cover even maybe some more ways
Speaker 1: that people can implement negotiation as a tactic into their
Speaker 1: everyday life so that it feels less daunting and hopefully
Speaker 1: they can get more from it. We'll talk more about
Speaker 1: that right after this, all right, So maybe during that
Speaker 1: commercial break, you're thinking about some of the different companies,
Speaker 1: some of the different instances where you could do some
Speaker 1: negotiating dollars a month, make it seven fifty this kind
Speaker 1: of in half. So one of the other tips, one
Speaker 1: of the other things we want you to keep in
Speaker 1: mind is to know who it is that you are
Speaker 1: going to be able to negotiate with, because negotiating with
Speaker 1: the wrong person is a real mistake that that folks make.
Speaker 1: Um and I know this should kind of really be
Speaker 1: like a no duh kind of point, but it's not
Speaker 1: as intuitive as you might think. And if you're talking
Speaker 1: to someone who has no authority over the terms or
Speaker 1: over the price, uh, if they don't have the ability
Speaker 1: to make any concessions, and you're just wasting your time.
Speaker 1: So kind of going back to the internet example, if
Speaker 1: you're talking to the wrong department, you're gonna be spending
Speaker 1: your wheels and so it's important to to ask some
Speaker 1: of these pointed questions to find out who you need
Speaker 1: to talk to so that you aren't wasting your time
Speaker 1: and your energy or getting just shut down just because
Speaker 1: you haven't found the proper decision makers. Right. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: we've always said that social media in general and Twitter
Speaker 1: specifically are are kind of the best avenues for negotiating
Speaker 1: an Internet bill that's too high. If you prefer to
Speaker 1: talk on the phone, that's fine. You want to make
Speaker 1: sure that you get through to the customer retention department.
Speaker 1: Those are the people with real clout who can negotiate
Speaker 1: with you to help you get a better deal. If
Speaker 1: you're talking to someone, let's say in another department, or
Speaker 1: you're just taking the wrong path, there's an awfully good
Speaker 1: chance that you're gonna end up getting stymied and you're
Speaker 1: not going to get a better deal. They're gonna say
Speaker 1: it's not available because they don't have the power. You
Speaker 1: haven't reached the right person, they don't have the authority
Speaker 1: to basically say, yes, you know what, you saw this
Speaker 1: deal elsewhere, we can match that. We'll give it to
Speaker 1: you for twelve months. Who you talk to makes all
Speaker 1: the difference in your ability to negotiate. If you're talking
Speaker 1: to someone that doesn't have the power, you're almost never
Speaker 1: going to have an effective end result that that works
Speaker 1: for you. That's right. Yeah, And you know the question
Speaker 1: is who should make the first offer because it's gonna
Speaker 1: depend uh. In many cases, you're gonna want the other
Speaker 1: party to throw out the first number. This is like
Speaker 1: I'm specifically thinking about when you're asking for a raise,
Speaker 1: because you don't want to limit the potential upside by
Speaker 1: starting off with a pay suggestion that's gonna come in
Speaker 1: way too way too low, that's gonna be way too weak.
Speaker 1: That's when a potential employer often they ask the tricky
Speaker 1: question of like, well, would you can pay to your
Speaker 1: last job? And you're gonna want to be really careful
Speaker 1: with how you answer that. You're not likelihood avoiding a
Speaker 1: specific number or maybe even avoiding a range, like finding
Speaker 1: a way to answer that diplomatically so you're not giving
Speaker 1: away too much information. And luckily more employers are offering
Speaker 1: ranges of pay rather than just a particular salary or
Speaker 1: just not disclosing salary at all. But when you're buying
Speaker 1: a physical item, you know whether it's it's new or used.
Speaker 1: The starting price has almost always been given, but so
Speaker 1: much depends on the specific context and whether or not
Speaker 1: you have the data. Again, so much of this comes
Speaker 1: back to you having done your homework, you having done
Speaker 1: the research. But if you have the data to back
Speaker 1: you up, then you can oftentime make a pretty confident
Speaker 1: offer on an item. And another important question to ask
Speaker 1: yourself is what state is the iteman because it's often
Speaker 1: easier to negotiate the price of a clearance model or
Speaker 1: a scratch intent appliance. Let's say then it would be
Speaker 1: on an item that is in high demand, right that
Speaker 1: everybody wants um, it's it's everybody wants it to be
Speaker 1: packaged and perfect and on that silver platter exactly. And
Speaker 1: there's a lot of items where if if it isn't
Speaker 1: high demand, let's say beanie babies back in the day,
Speaker 1: it's gonna sell out in like in like twenty four
Speaker 1: hours regardless, Like you're not gonna get a discount on that.
Speaker 1: But if it lingers on the shelf longer, there's more
Speaker 1: of a chance there's that there's gonna be wiggle room
Speaker 1: for you to get a better price. It also makes me.
Speaker 1: Think about, like, um, negotiating at a place like a
Speaker 1: pawn shop. That's that's more expected, right, or the seller
Speaker 1: on Craigslist, like the medium is often helps determine whether
Speaker 1: or not you're gonna be able to negotiate effectively. It's
Speaker 1: easier to negotiate in those places than it is let's say,
Speaker 1: at your local grocery store on a pint of ice cream.
Speaker 1: But that also doesn't mean that it's not possible in
Speaker 1: some of those contexts. And so some ways that you
Speaker 1: can negotiate, even in a situation where it doesn't seem
Speaker 1: normal is to I don't know, like ask for a
Speaker 1: bulk discount. Could you get ten percent off? Let's say,
Speaker 1: if you purchased a case or one thing I've been
Speaker 1: able to use over the years, not at different times,
Speaker 1: is to check the expiration date, and if that item
Speaker 1: is about to expire, uh, the store is often gonna
Speaker 1: prefer to sell it to you for less than to
Speaker 1: throw it away. We've talked about buying tuls for my wife,
Speaker 1: and I realized that if I go in on Wednesdays, well,
Speaker 1: typically they're gonna expire on Thursday or something like that.
Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, you get a big discount. Or let's
Speaker 1: say that the steaks in the meat meat department are
Speaker 1: expiring tomorrow. You can go up to the meat manager
Speaker 1: and say, hey, listen, can I get thirty percent off
Speaker 1: the stakes? Or you can find a way to ask
Speaker 1: a question to get a cheaper price. Hey, are you
Speaker 1: just gonna throw these away otherwise? Because how can I
Speaker 1: get them for a better price? You're like, Hey, I
Speaker 1: know you're about to put the red stakes out, but
Speaker 1: you can sell me these gray steaks, these stakes that
Speaker 1: kind of look like a rainbow, right, you don't want
Speaker 1: rainbow steaks man for any price? Me, You're you definitely
Speaker 1: want to avoid. So basically what we're saying here is
Speaker 1: that it doesn't hurt to ask, right, and so whether
Speaker 1: that's just asked, like straight up just asking for a
Speaker 1: discount code, or just asking if there's a sale coming soon,
Speaker 1: like sometimes you're gonna be able to get that better
Speaker 1: price now, even if it's not a currently advertised lower price.
Speaker 1: Kind of going back to what you're saying, you're talking
Speaker 1: about a like busted up packaging. Well, major retailers like
Speaker 1: Home Depot, Target, best Buy, like they will give you
Speaker 1: a serious discount. Much of the time, just if you ask.
Speaker 1: Open box items are already cheaper, but you can often
Speaker 1: score additional dollars off just by asking. Some of these
Speaker 1: retailers will match the price and take up to like
Speaker 1: an additional temperson off. Yeah, sometimes just knowing, just because
Speaker 1: you're willing their policy or their tendency can give you
Speaker 1: a big leg up because you're like, well, i've heard
Speaker 1: that you do this, Is that true? Um Or I've
Speaker 1: seen on your website that you'll price match and give
Speaker 1: an additional discount. Will you do that in this case?
Speaker 1: Because here's because here's the math, like and here's or
Speaker 1: here's here's the price that your competitor. Can you match
Speaker 1: and then beat it for me? And that sometimes you
Speaker 1: don't even have to necessarily negotiate. You just have to
Speaker 1: know what the policy is so that you can use
Speaker 1: it to your advantage. And I think one thing that
Speaker 1: maybe keeps people from often from negotiating at all, uh
Speaker 1: much less negotiating effectively is the fear of rejection that
Speaker 1: keeps them from me being trying, right, I mean? And
Speaker 1: I think one helpful way maybe to get over some
Speaker 1: of that fear when it comes to negotiating is to
Speaker 1: consider the worst case scenario, if you don't get the
Speaker 1: terms you really want, is it really that bad? Like?
Speaker 1: What what are the downside potentials? Because the reality is
Speaker 1: that it's often not as bad as you think it is.
Speaker 1: And when we've got those secondary and tertiary plans figured
Speaker 1: out ahead of time, when we have a plan B, C,
Speaker 1: and D, we don't feel the pressure to take a
Speaker 1: losing deal to nearly the same degree. In negotiation, it's
Speaker 1: not something we do every day, and so, but it's
Speaker 1: our goal to see people use it more frequently. We
Speaker 1: think it's kind of like a muscle that you've gotta
Speaker 1: that you gotta flex, and the more you flex that muscle,
Speaker 1: the better you're gonna get at it, the more comfortable
Speaker 1: you're gonna get doing it and making it uh something
Speaker 1: that you kind of incorporate more frequently into your shopping
Speaker 1: trips and into your conversations with your boss, all that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. As you get more comfortable, you're gonna
Speaker 1: find a slew of ways to negotiate as you go
Speaker 1: through every day of life. Um, and the other side
Speaker 1: might not even you know, whoever it is that you're
Speaker 1: negotiating with. They may not realize that that is what
Speaker 1: you are actually doing, right, because unlike popular sentiment, negotiation
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be this adversarial process with this scarcity mindset.
Speaker 1: It also doesn't have to be this formal thing where
Speaker 1: you sit down that the negotiating table and ultimately becoming
Speaker 1: a smart negotiator is going to pay dividends and many
Speaker 1: facets of your life for years to come. You know,
Speaker 1: like we truly do believe that flexing that negotiating muscle,
Speaker 1: that it is good for all of us, just like
Speaker 1: time management, taking it back to the beginning, if you
Speaker 1: are good at that, that is going to serve you
Speaker 1: for the rest of your of your life and in
Speaker 1: the same way we think that negotiating will be able
Speaker 1: to serve you. Well, yeah, man, negotiating is is a
Speaker 1: winning strategy and I think it's a lot of fun too. Again,
Speaker 1: if we see like a game, it can and it
Speaker 1: can make it easier to implement because it's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: let me try this thing out, let me see how
Speaker 1: it goes, and you can kind of like, yeah, test
Speaker 1: and see how some of these tactics work. And I'd
Speaker 1: be curious to know matter if any how, the money
Speaker 1: listeners maybe kind of start to use this a little
Speaker 1: more readily, and how it pays off for you shooters,
Speaker 1: email let us know how it goes. Yeah, if you
Speaker 1: get a win under your belt, to let us know.
Speaker 1: We want to hear about it so we can share
Speaker 1: with listeners. Joel, let's take it back to the beer.
Speaker 1: You and I enjoyed a grisette by Jester King, and
Speaker 1: this one is re fermented with cherries. What were your
Speaker 1: thoughts on this one, buddy? Well, first, this is a
Speaker 1: beer style that's sadly almost nobody makes. And every time
Speaker 1: I've had a grisette, there's like I can only think
Speaker 1: of like three or four I've had in my life.
Speaker 1: They've all been epically good. It's just a rarity, like
Speaker 1: almost nobody makes them. And so it's a typically a
Speaker 1: Belgian style farmhouse or says on. Yeah, it's like heavy
Speaker 1: on the wheat factor, but also there's usually like a
Speaker 1: funkiness and definitely a flunkiness, and this one is is funky,
Speaker 1: but it's all I've never had a grisette actually with
Speaker 1: fruit in it before, so this one had cherries in it,
Speaker 1: which is one of my favorite fruits to put in beer.
Speaker 1: And it's by Jester King, which is one of the
Speaker 1: best breweries in our country in all likelihood, and and
Speaker 1: so I thought this one was great, man, I really
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. It was it was light, but had that
Speaker 1: weedy element and had that cherry vibe going in a
Speaker 1: little bit tart. I thought it was delicious. It's one
Speaker 1: of the better beers I've had from Jester King. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what's great about a beer like this is I mean,
Speaker 1: so basically it's a sour. I think that's maybe the
Speaker 1: best way to think about it. Um. But with a
Speaker 1: beer this you get a lot of complexity. And so
Speaker 1: if you are someone who enjoys maybe some of those
Speaker 1: barrel aged stouts because you like all the different flavors
Speaker 1: that that you can taste within that beer, but it's
Speaker 1: not the middle of winter and you want to switch
Speaker 1: it up and go something a little bit lighter. This
Speaker 1: is definitely a style beer that I would recommend because
Speaker 1: there are just so many nuances that go into making
Speaker 1: something like this. Again, pretty much everything by Jester King
Speaker 1: is fantastic. It's nuanced in the way that negotiations. Right,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna read this here on their label says we
Speaker 1: brew what we like drink what we want and offer
Speaker 1: the rest to those who share our tastes. That's pretty bold.
Speaker 1: But if you're making beer as good as they are,
Speaker 1: I guess that's something you can get away with right
Speaker 1: down on your label, that's right. You can afford to
Speaker 1: be cocky. I guess you make beer as good a
Speaker 1: jester king dust. But don't be cocky when it comes
Speaker 1: to how it is you negotiate and treat other people.
Speaker 1: All right, Joel, that's gonna do it for this episode.
Speaker 1: Listeners can find our show notes up on our website
Speaker 1: at how to money dot com. We'll see back here
Speaker 1: on Friday with our Friday Flight, and we're gonna break
Speaker 1: down some of the news that you've been hearing about
Speaker 1: this week. So until next time, best Friends Out, Best
Speaker 1: Friends Out,