1 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: From the Berkshars to the sound from wherever you live 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:09,120 Speaker 1: in MLB America. This is Inside the Parker. You give 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:11,479 Speaker 1: us twenty two minutes and we'll give you the scoop 4 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:15,319 Speaker 1: on major League Baseball. Now, here's Baseball Hall of Fame 5 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: voter number fifty seven, Rob Parker. 6 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 2: Come on, I've been covering Major League Baseball for almost 7 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 2: forty years now, in New York, in Cincinnati, in Detroit, 8 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 2: in LA. 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 3: I love this game. Let's go. 10 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 4: Welcome into the podcast. 11 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 2: I'm your host, Rob Parker, And what a very special edition. 12 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 4: Of Inside the Parker. 13 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 3: All about Pete Rose, Yes. 14 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 2: And the stunning decision by Major League Baseball to make 15 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 2: him eligible and no longer banned. 16 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 4: Author Keith O'Brien. 17 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 2: Who's written a really tremendous book about Pete Rose. 18 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 4: He'll join us. Plus foul of all that and much more, 19 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 4: let's go. 20 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 3: Here comes the big interview. Listen and learn. 21 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 4: It's so good. 22 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 2: Now, let's welcome in author Keith O'Brien, who wrote the 23 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 2: book Charlie Hustle, The Rise and Fall of Pete Rose 24 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 2: and the Last Glory. 25 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 4: Days of Baseball. Keith, we've had you on before. 26 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,639 Speaker 2: It's so apropos to have you now and again welcome 27 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 2: to inside the Parker. 28 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 4: How are you doing, Keith? 29 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 5: I'm great, man, How are you great? To be back 30 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 5: with you? 31 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 4: Absolutely Man. 32 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 2: So the announcement that Pete Rose, you know, I know, 33 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 2: shoeless Joe was also reinstated. He died in nineteen fifty one, 34 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 2: and for whatever reason, they decided to throw him in 35 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 2: I guess to try to throw off the set that 36 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 2: this was about Pete Rose, whether the commissioner wants to 37 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 2: admit it or not. 38 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 4: Did you know this was coming? And how surprised are you? 39 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 5: There was so much smoke this fire in the past 40 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 5: six weeks. I think most people suspected this was coming, 41 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 5: and yet I was still stunned, Rob. I mean, I'll 42 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 5: be honest. I mean, this decision reversed thirty six years 43 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 5: of established Major League policy around Pete Rose. He had 44 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 5: applied for reinstatement many times through multiple commissioners, nothing ever changed. 45 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 5: And so it was still a stunning announcement. And I 46 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 5: agree with you what you said there in the intro. 47 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 5: I think you know, in some ways this was a 48 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 5: stroke of genius by Rob Manfred. You know, he didn't 49 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 5: make it about Pete Rose. He essentially has made a 50 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 5: semantic decision, a rule decision. What's more baseball than a 51 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 5: rule decision? Right by saying that when a player dies, 52 00:02:55,600 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 5: his ineligibility dies with him. And thus fifty seventeen different players, 53 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 5: including Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe and fifteen others, revert 54 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 5: back to normal status and the status quo. And in 55 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 5: doing so, Rob Manfred has taking an annual question that 56 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 5: always comes up. He's taking it off his plate, and 57 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 5: he's moved it to someone else's. You know, the National 58 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 5: Baseball Hall of Fame will now be answering questions about 59 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 5: Pete Rose. Major League Baseball won't any longer. 60 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 4: Right, And it's just. 61 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 2: It just doesn't sit right with me as a Hall 62 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 2: of Fame voter and whatnot. And this is probably gonna 63 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 2: go to the you know, Veterans Committee or whatever they 64 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 2: call it now, the you know, not the writers per 65 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 2: se for Pete Rose, and there's a good chance that 66 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 2: he could get in. I've heard a lot of pushback 67 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 2: from a lot of former players that doesn't sound like 68 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 2: their gung ho for Pete Rose to get in. I guess, 69 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 2: you know, in baseball doing this, what is the point 70 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 2: of having a lifetime ban. 71 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 4: And I get it that he's not alive anymore. 72 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 2: But what you do is open a door to celebrate 73 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 2: a guy who you know, did something against the integrity 74 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 2: of the sport that could have damaged it. 75 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 4: And that's the reason you have rules in place. Does 76 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 4: that make sense like that? 77 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 2: That's I get he's not alive, but now there's a 78 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 2: chance that you're going to celebrate a guy who who 79 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 2: broke the biggest and cardinal rule of the game. 80 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 5: You know, the thing that I guess upsets me the 81 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 5: most is that it's not going to the Baseball Writers 82 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 5: of America, is that you won't get a chance to 83 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 5: cast a vote. I think that would have been a 84 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 5: fascinating public discussion that would have unfolded in the marketplace, 85 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 5: in the town square about Pete Rose and about integrity 86 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 5: and about who we honor and who we don't know. 87 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 5: I don't I don't love the idea that this conversation, 88 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 5: this robust and complicated conversation, is now going to happen 89 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 5: essentially in a back in a back room, the smokey backroom, 90 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 5: and we won't really know what goes down there. You know, 91 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 5: if writers like yourself and so many others had had 92 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 5: a chance to weigh in. It would have filled the podcast, 93 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 5: it would have filled the columns. People could have replied 94 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 5: off one another, We could have sorted it out. And 95 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 5: I think, honestly, that's what should have happened in the beginning. 96 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 5: You know, when when Rose was banned in August nineteen 97 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 5: eighty nine, there was no rule in place that took 98 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 5: ineligible players off the ballot. In fact, Rose thought he 99 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 5: would appear on the ballot two years later in nineteen 100 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 5: ninety one, and so did Commissioner Bartiamatti. You know, Giamatti 101 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 5: is asked that day at his press conference in New York, 102 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 5: what are we to do about Pete Rose when he 103 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,359 Speaker 5: appears on the ballot? And I loved Giamatti's answer. You know, 104 00:05:58,440 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 5: Giamatti said. 105 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 3: That he looked forward. 106 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 5: He looked forward to seeing how the voters, how the 107 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 5: writers waighed life in art, and how they judged the 108 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 5: two together. And I just wish the writers, that you 109 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 5: and so many other voters could have that conversation. 110 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 2: And the thing is, and I'm you know, I respect 111 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 2: I don't agree with all the writers in there, but 112 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 2: that I respect their votes and they've put in the 113 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 2: work and the time of covering the sport that even 114 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 2: if it's not something that I agree with, I respect 115 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 2: everybody's right to have a vote and to pick the 116 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 2: guy that they want because of the reasons that they 117 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 2: choose that are important. Do we know that Pete Rose 118 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 2: was a great player, one of the greatest. That's not 119 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 2: even a question for anybody. Right until Mariano Rivera became unanimous, 120 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 2: no player had ever been unanimous. 121 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 4: If you went on. 122 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 2: Pete Rose's stats alone, I don't know how you could 123 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 2: not vote for him, you know, like in that, but 124 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 2: we know that you can't separate the man Keith, and 125 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 2: that is the part when you look at his entire 126 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 2: career and what he's done. And my question to you 127 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 2: here is this, had Pete Rose come. 128 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 4: Clean, immediately. 129 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 2: Begged for forgiveness, said I'm gonna go to gambler's anonymous, 130 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 2: I'm gonna speak to kids about the dangers of gambling 131 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 2: and whatnot, and really been contrite and said, hey, I 132 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 2: made a colossal mistake. I never wanted to hurt baseball. 133 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,239 Speaker 2: I have a problem and I need to get help. 134 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 2: Do you doubt he would have been in the Hall 135 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 2: would have been suspended, came back and been and been 136 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 2: able to. 137 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 4: Be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame. 138 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 5: Not only would he have not have been elected into 139 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 5: the Hall of Fame way back in the nineties if 140 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 5: he had done that, I believe that Rose might have 141 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 5: even been back in a dugout, and he might have 142 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 5: even been back on the yield. You know, when this 143 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 5: unfolds in nineteen eighty nine, we got to rewind the 144 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 5: tape a little bit. You know, Rose is not a 145 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 5: scandalous figure. He is not a villain. He is a 146 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 5: great American icon. He is fundamental to the game of baseball. 147 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 5: He's still in nineteen eighty nine as a manager, one 148 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 5: of its biggest stars. And so this was bad for baseball. 149 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 5: And when Baseball first learns about it, they call him 150 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 5: to New York for a secret meeting. And in that 151 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 5: meeting is outgoing Commissioner Peter Uberov incoming and commissioner and 152 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 5: then president of the National League Barchie Amadi, and Barchieamadi's 153 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 5: right hand man, fee Vincent, and they ask him point 154 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 5: blank that day they've heard a rumor that Sports Illustrated 155 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 5: is investigating a story that he's betting on the Reds. 156 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 5: He's betting on baseball. They want to know is it true? 157 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 5: And if Rose was honest, the whole story is different. 158 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 5: I believe that baseball would have done everything it could 159 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 5: to salvage Pete Rose. And to your point, even after 160 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 5: he goes down and his band, he doesn't do any 161 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 5: of those things that you just said. He doesn't go 162 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 5: on tour, he doesn't go on campuses and speak about 163 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 5: the dangers of gambling. He won't acknowledge for fifteen years 164 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 5: that Barchiamatti and John Dowd, the investigator for Major League Baseball, 165 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 5: are even right. You know, his lies hurt lots of people. 166 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 5: His lies hurt Barciamatti and his memory. And you know 167 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 5: he never does that sort of speaking tour in which 168 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 5: he could have helped lots of people, not just himself. 169 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 5: And it is, you know, in some ways classic Pete Rose. 170 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 5: He sort of missed this opportunity to get right with 171 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 5: the world, and he missed it many many times in 172 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 5: the last thirty six years of his life. 173 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 2: Keith O'Brien is our guest in a tremendous book about 174 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 2: Pete Rose, and you just touched on the key I 175 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 2: try to tell, you know, callers to my radio show 176 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 2: and baseball fans who stopped me and asked me about 177 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 2: Pete Rose and the whole thing, and they try to 178 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 2: blame baseball, and I say it. 179 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 4: What you just said is so true. 180 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 2: Baseball did not want to have to ban its all 181 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 2: time hit leader. It doesn't help the game at all. 182 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 2: It's not what they wanted to do. But Pete couldn't 183 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 2: be honest with them, and you know, there set up 184 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 2: camp in Las Vegas, and he kept with it. There's 185 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 2: a famous interview when his son has his first step bat, 186 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 2: and I'm sure you've seen Keith just about everything about 187 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 2: Pete Rose, but he's interviewed in the stands and they 188 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 2: asked him about his son making his major league debut 189 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 2: and whatnot, and Pete can't even help hisself. He says 190 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 2: to the reporter, I bet he gets a hit, do 191 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like I thought to myself, 192 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 2: you couldn't have said anything more and b Pete Rose. 193 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 2: But you get my point. This is not what baseball 194 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 2: wanted to do, but it had no choice. 195 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 4: Yeah. 196 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 5: You know, as a native of Cincinnati, there was a 197 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 5: prominent narrative in nineteen eighty nine, and for years afterwards 198 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 5: that Barchiamadi was quote out to get Pete Rose, and 199 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 5: it just simply couldn't be further from the truth. You know, 200 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 5: Bartiamadi did what he had to do and what Pete 201 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 5: forced him to do by his unwillingness to acknowledge what 202 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 5: he had done. And I want to be clear here. 203 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 5: You know Pete makes these mistakes in this in the 204 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 5: eighties because he's addicted to gambling. You know, he is 205 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 5: making irrational choices in the way that addicts do. You know, 206 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 5: we all might not know in our lives a gambling addict. 207 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 5: I would suspect few of us do, but a lot 208 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 5: of us know someone in our lives who struggles with 209 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 5: addiction to alcohol or drugs. 210 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 3: And what do addicts do. 211 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 5: They make choices that hurt themselves and others, and they 212 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,959 Speaker 5: do it again and again. And that's what he did 213 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 5: in that window of time. And so if he had 214 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 5: said I have a problem, I need help, Please help me, 215 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 5: Bartie Imadi absolutely would have done that. He just didn't 216 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 5: have that choice. 217 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 2: Here's the other thing too, that I hear a lot 218 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 2: and I pushed back on, Well, he never bet against 219 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 2: the Reds, And I'm saying you're a gambling addic. So 220 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 2: you know the starting picture, you guys bad not picturing well, 221 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:54,839 Speaker 2: do you like the idea just the notion that he. 222 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,199 Speaker 3: Would be because he has this. 223 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 2: Urge to gamble and wants to win, that he would 224 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 2: be of course, have honor in those situations, even though 225 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,959 Speaker 2: he knows inside information that maybe his starter or whatever's 226 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,439 Speaker 2: going on is not that good or his best player 227 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 2: is not playing. I just and they have all the 228 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 2: records to back it up that of course he did bet, 229 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 2: but there are people who will not let go of 230 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 2: this idea that well, but he never bet against the Reds, 231 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,559 Speaker 2: So I don't understand if you're betting for them to win, 232 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 2: what's the difference. 233 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 4: Can you just speak to that? 234 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, there are two issues with that. First was flagged 235 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 5: by Barti Imadi in nineteen eighty nine. You know, he 236 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 5: said that the moment that a player, any player, places 237 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 5: a wager even on himself to win, he now has 238 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 5: incentives outside the game and there's just no place for it. 239 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 5: That's number one. Number two, what Pete Rose said in 240 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 5: the last you know, twenty years of his life wasn't 241 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 5: exactly true. Yes, he never bet against the Reds. There 242 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 5: is no evidence that he ever placed a wager against 243 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 5: his own team, however, based on the printed records, and 244 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 5: there are two batches of printed gambling records related to 245 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 5: Pete Rose, one from nineteen eighty six, his last year 246 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 5: as a player manager, and one from nineteen eighty seven, 247 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 5: And in those batches of gambling records, Rose doesn't always 248 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 5: bet on the Reds. And what I mean by that 249 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 5: is maybe he bet on them on Monday and Tuesday 250 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 5: and Wednesday and Thursday, and then he didn't on Friday 251 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 5: and Saturday, and then he did again on Sunday. And 252 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 5: the reason why that's problematic is this, at the time 253 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 5: when Pete was betting, he was betting with illegal bookies, 254 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 5: and illegal bookies never worked alone. If I'm a bookie 255 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 5: and you're a bookie, in the minutes before game time, 256 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 5: we are calling each other and we are laying off 257 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 5: our bets so that you and I get even. So 258 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 5: if you're in New York and everyone in your betting 259 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 5: circle is betting on the Mets, and I'm in Cincinnati 260 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 5: and everyone in my circle is betting against the Mets, 261 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 5: we get even. We lay off our bets. So you 262 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 5: and I are going to come out ahead no matter 263 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 5: what happens tonight. And so I can assure you that 264 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 5: in the minutes before games where Rose did not wager 265 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 5: on his own team, Betty's bookies were talking, they knew 266 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 5: and and money was moving on that. 267 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 4: No doubt, no doubt. 268 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 2: It is very very interesting how this thing all all 269 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 2: came about. And you know, and even Pete Rose said 270 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 2: I'll be in the Hall of Fame when I die 271 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 2: or whatever, And now here we are. He's passed on 272 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 2: and now he's he's not ineligible anymore. And this is 273 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 2: going to go to this committee and we'll see where 274 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 2: that is with former players. Even though my biggest issue 275 00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 2: with the with the Veterans Committee, per se is some 276 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 2: of the biggest question marks in the Hall of Fame, 277 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 2: where people go, well, what about you know, Phil Rizzuto, 278 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 2: what about Bill Mazeroski, what about you know Pee Wee Reese. 279 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 4: Well, they're in the Hall of Fame. 280 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 2: Whenever fans do that, I always say, they were not 281 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 2: voted in by the writers, like those are the ones. 282 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 2: And that's why I think there's a chance that he 283 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 2: could get in. And I tell fans also people haven't 284 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 2: been up to Hall of Fame that his stuff is there. 285 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 2: He's not whitewashed out where they don't have any of 286 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 2: his memorabilia, and you don't know who Pete Rose is, 287 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 2: so the idea that he's not in the Hall of 288 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 2: Fame is not true. 289 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 5: Well, and listen, there'll be a trickle down effect no 290 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 5: matter what happens here. If the Veterans Committee in two 291 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 5: years or five years, you know, rules that Rose should 292 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 5: be enshrined, that's going to open the door to a 293 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 5: lot of other of Baseball's and they or do wells, 294 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 5: you know, players from the steroid era. 295 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 2: Ary Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mark McGuire. 296 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,199 Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know how you'll be able to 297 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 4: keep them out. 298 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 5: There will be there will There are a lot of 299 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 5: invested parties now in the Pete Rose in the Pete 300 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 5: Rose case. Similarly, you know, if they rule against him, 301 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 5: it would seem to keep the door closed to those folks. 302 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 5: I mean, the most fascinating thing is this, and you 303 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 5: know this, Rob For the last thirty six years, the 304 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 5: Pete Rose debate has been a hypothetical one, and it's 305 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 5: been one of those great late night sports debates that 306 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 5: we've all had at some point. Right now, it's real. 307 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 5: We are having that debate right now, and it is 308 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 5: going to be fascinating to see what we as a 309 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 5: culture decide to do. 310 00:17:55,240 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 2: And last thing, it's out there. President Trump was going 311 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 2: to pardon Keith Pete Rose. And what you know, did 312 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 2: this spur the commissioner to jump forward or jump ahead 313 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,120 Speaker 2: so that it wasn't Trump it was at least him 314 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 2: or Baseball making the move rather than the President. 315 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 4: What have you heard on that? 316 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 5: I'm speculating a bit here, Rob, But you know, we 317 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 5: all know right now that President Trump is putting pressure 318 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 5: on lots of people and lots of parties corporations as well. 319 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 5: Nobody wants to be in the crossairs of Donald Trump's 320 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 5: ire in this particular moment of time. And I think 321 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 5: that extends to Major League Baseball as well. If someone 322 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 5: was going to move the ball forward here on Pete Rose, 323 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 5: I believe Major League Baseball wanted to be the one 324 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 5: to do it. It has now happened, you know, Rob 325 00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 5: Manfred again has taken this thorny issue that has been 326 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 5: in the side of baseball for thirty six years. He 327 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 5: has put it in the side of someone else, and 328 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 5: it's going to be fascinating to see where it all leads. 329 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 5: The only thing we know for sure is that somehow, 330 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 5: someway from the afterlife, he Rose will continue to make 331 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 5: major headlines. It's incredible, no doubt. 332 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 4: Man. 333 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 2: I appreciate the conversation Keith O'Brien. Check out his book 334 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 2: Charlie Hustle, The Rise and Fall of Pete Rose and 335 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 2: the Last Glory Days of Baseball. Make sure you pick 336 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 2: that up. And always a pleasure to talk to you, Keith. 337 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us. 338 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 5: Thanks so much for having me again. 339 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 6: It's the Gambler here. Vice president of Operations for mlbbro 340 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 6: dot Com and executive producer of the MLB bro Show 341 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 6: podcast The Mixtape. 342 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 3: Every Friday. You heard that right. 343 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 6: Every Friday we bring you the the best from the 344 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 6: world of Black and Brown baseball. We cover the seven 345 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 6: point two percent of melanated Major leaguers from soup to nuts, 346 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 6: but with our own cultural flair and unique voice, will 347 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:17,400 Speaker 6: take you on a ride reflecting on the accomplishments, clutch moments, 348 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 6: and contributions to culture that the Bros continue to breathe 349 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 6: into Baseball. From Mookie Wilson's to Mookie Betts, Doctor k 350 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 6: to Doctor Styx, from Bro Bombs to stolen bases to 351 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 6: Black Aces, We're live at the ballparks and also bringing 352 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 6: you segments like Classic Hits with David Grubb, the Black 353 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 6: Ace Report, the Rundown, the Walk Off, and Going Deep, 354 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,639 Speaker 6: just to name a few of the segments that truly 355 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 6: capture the voice of Black baseball. If things get out 356 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 6: of hands, the Boss Rob Parker, he's kicking up dust. 357 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 6: We will gladly pay you on Tuesday. From an MLB 358 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 6: bro doubleheader Today, remember the heart of the game, live 359 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 6: in the diversity of the game and the spirit of 360 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 6: black baseball that dates back to the Negro leagues. I've 361 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 6: the Gambler, your friendly neighborhood diamond checker, making sure that 362 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 6: you stay on top of the game and in touch 363 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 6: with the soul of MLB. Fuckle up for a wild 364 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 6: baseball journey, showing respect to the Ogs and highlighting the 365 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 6: new breed of melanated malt moroder. First thing through MLB's pipeline, 366 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 6: all pitching with the sound of Black Baseball. We got 367 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 6: the best starting five in the business. Listen to the 368 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 6: MLB Bro Show podcast. The mixtape on the iHeartRadio app, 369 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 6: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. 370 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: When Rob was a newspaper columnist, he lived by this model. 371 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: If I'm writing, I'm ripping, Let's bring in a writer 372 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: of broadcaster, old or new. 373 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,360 Speaker 3: Now let's welcome into the podcast. 374 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 2: I call him the super Reds fan, Mike Williams from Cincinnati, 375 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 2: and Mike a buddy of mine. 376 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 4: Every time I go to Cincinnati. 377 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 2: Guess so I go to the baseball game with it's 378 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 2: that guy right there, Mike Williams. 379 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 4: What's up, Mike? How are you? 380 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 3: What's up? 381 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 4: Broh? 382 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 7: I'm doing good? 383 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 4: Man, how are you? I'm doing good. 384 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 2: I had to get you on the podcast because last 385 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 2: night was Pete Rose Knight at the Great American Ballpark, 386 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 2: and you were there. I saw the pictures you sent 387 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,439 Speaker 2: me earlier, just kind of tell me about it. I 388 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 2: didn't realize they had already had this thing scheduled and 389 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 2: the NFL right when Baseball made its announcement. What was 390 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 2: that like last night at the ballpark? 391 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 7: I see it was perfect time, man. I mean this 392 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,919 Speaker 7: was scheduled I think two to three weeks after he 393 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,919 Speaker 7: died in September, so we knew about this for a minute. 394 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 7: And it was standing room only. 395 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 4: Rob it was packed. 396 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 7: It was kind of like Opening Day, but honestly, it 397 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 7: was more people in the ball crowd for this than 398 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 7: Opening Day. 399 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 4: She's crazy, but we get. I gotta say this, Pete 400 00:22:58,040 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 4: Roses are very unique. 401 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 2: It's not often that someone is born, you know, in 402 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 2: that city becomes like one of the greatest players ever. 403 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 4: And then of course he won. Who was on the 404 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 4: big red machine. I mean, Pete Rose is a Cincinnati icon. 405 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,919 Speaker 2: It's not like Mike he was born in northern Kentucky 406 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 2: or Ohio or close by Cincinnati. He was born in Cincinnati. 407 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 2: And you, as a younger guy, young fan, you know 408 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 2: about Cincinna. You know about Pete Rose, don't you. Everybody does. 409 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 7: Yes, He's a true West Sider. And my favorite thing 410 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 7: about him is this underdog story. I mean, you can 411 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 7: he's the champion. He's our bab roof. That's what the 412 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 7: son said yesterday. He's our baby roof. 413 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 2: So definitely, what was the sort of atmosphere And I 414 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 2: guess when you heard the announcement in people in Cincinnati 415 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 2: who still live and work in Cincinnati, when it came 416 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 2: down from the commissioner. What was that like at work 417 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 2: people talking about it or your friends or whatever. 418 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 4: What was that like? 419 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 7: I thought it was long overdue. I know how you feel, Robb, 420 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 7: so I won't get into that debate with you, but 421 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 7: we feel like this is something that should have happened 422 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 7: when he was asking, you know, in the late nineties 423 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 7: or early nineties, late nineties, when the All Star Game 424 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 7: came to Cincinnati. I mean, it's something. 425 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 2: I remember that twenty fifteen. He was allowed on the 426 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 2: field though, if you remember, and he was banned. So 427 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 2: Baseball did Ben? Can you at least get Baseball that 428 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 2: he was there? 429 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 7: They did, Ben, They did allow the Reds to retire 430 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,679 Speaker 7: his jersey. But you commented on something last night on 431 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,360 Speaker 7: that our couple podcasts. You said, this isn't a coincidence, 432 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 7: and you're right, it's not because his family has been 433 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 7: working behind the scenes with Commissioner Manfred to get this, 434 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 7: to get his blank, his band status, get his stand 435 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:55,959 Speaker 7: bad as removed. And this is all about Pete. I 436 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 7: know they happened to have you know, the other players 437 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 7: who no gamble, but this is this is all about Pete. 438 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 4: So no doubt. 439 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 2: So that last thing I know your last said, you're 440 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 2: a super Reds fan and I'm going to see you 441 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:10,880 Speaker 2: in June when we go to the game. 442 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 4: As I come every year. You know that. 443 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 2: But uh, the gambling and what he did doesn't bother 444 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 2: you or you're just willing to forgive him, because let's 445 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 2: not act like Creed Rose was an angel. 446 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 4: Does it bother me? 447 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 6: No? 448 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 7: Because he bettered on his team to win every single night. 449 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 7: I could see if he was intentionally sitting players or 450 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:39,439 Speaker 7: he was betting on him and lose, but he he 451 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 7: wanted them to win every night, and that's what he 452 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 7: betted on. So I do not know. 453 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 4: I do not there he is. That's that's what I 454 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 4: expected from you, super Reds fan. 455 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:53,640 Speaker 2: Mike Williams from Cincinnati from the Natty join us here 456 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 2: on inside the Park. 457 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 4: I appreciate you. 458 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:57,679 Speaker 7: Thanks Rov when we have to get out for a 459 00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 7: Bengals game as well. 460 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 3: Man left ball. It was a big week in the 461 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 3: big leagues. Who's who's a five? 462 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 4: I believe? 463 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 3: Is it fouled or is it fair? 464 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 1: And now from mlbdbro dot com here's Jrgambo. 465 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 4: Jr. 466 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 2: Is it foul or fair that Pete Rose is now 467 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 2: eligible for the Hall of Fame in a few years, 468 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 2: and accused ped legends are still shut out. 469 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 3: From the Hall faul. That is a foul ball. At 470 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 3: least with Pete Rose. 471 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 6: It was an agreed upon situation between him and bar 472 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 6: Giomadi in nineteen eighty nine, with Rose expecting to be 473 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 6: reinstated one day. Giami passed on, though, and it seemed 474 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 6: like the commissioners who followed him they just wanted to 475 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 6: respect his last big decision, so they kept Rose out. 476 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 6: No one capitalized on Pete Rose's gambling but Pete and 477 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 6: the bookies, so that was greed, and he continued to 478 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 6: deny it while doing it, I think, all the way 479 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 6: up to twenty fifteen. On the other hand, Bonds, Mark McGuire, 480 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 6: Roger Clemens, Manny Ramirez, just the name a few admitted 481 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 6: to their shortcomings and gave explanations why. But eventually everyone 482 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,199 Speaker 6: from manager Joe Torre to Tony LaRussa and Bobby Cox, 483 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 6: they were all honorably inducted into the Hall of Fame, 484 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 6: as well as overseeing Commissioner Bud Selick. 485 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 3: But they were to blame as well. 486 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 6: They all looked the other way and one world series 487 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 6: with PD players, so Sam McGuire chasing Maris's sixty one 488 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 6: homer mark in ninety eight that saved baseball. McGuire with 489 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 6: seventy bombs. Wasn't the Senate committee hearings humiliating enough? Otani's 490 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 6: eight hundred million dollar contract and these bags they come 491 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 6: on the back of the accomplishments of all these players 492 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 6: and his very hypocritical people. Be real, we know their 493 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 6: steroid users in the Hall of Fame already. With baseball 494 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 6: knee deep in gambling partnerships, the Pete Rose facade is over, 495 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 6: so should the be the ped assassination against the game's greats. 496 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: In case you missed Rob Parker on the MLB networks, 497 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 1: here's his latest appearance on MLBNA. 498 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 2: I say, no way, know how if Pete Rose wasn't 499 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 2: fit when he was alive to be in the Hall 500 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 2: of Fame, it doesn't make any sense to me that 501 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 2: now he's. 502 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 3: Fit because he's dead. The offenses are still the offenses. 503 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 2: And what's the reason of having rules and then acting 504 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 2: like nothing happened because he passed away. 505 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 3: Just none of it makes any sense to me. 506 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,719 Speaker 2: I understand partly the commissioners saying, well, he're taking him 507 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 2: off the list. 508 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 4: Because he's not alive anymore. 509 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 2: But it doesn't mean that he should now go on 510 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,239 Speaker 2: the ballot or have a chance to get in the 511 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 2: Hall of Fame. 512 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 8: Well, I'll say this, Rob, Rob, I'm not even arguing 513 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 8: against you. I don't thin there's any right or wrong here. 514 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 8: And you make an excellent point. He violated that rule, 515 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 8: you made that decision. He's on the permanently ineligible list. 516 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 8: Why would he come off. But I'll say this, had 517 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 8: he changed his ways at really any point through the 518 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 8: nineteen nineties or after and had copped to it. He 519 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 8: didn't admit to it until two thousand and four, then 520 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 8: he could have been back in the game, and then 521 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,719 Speaker 8: you could at least put him on either to the 522 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 8: Baseball Writers or one of these veterans committees and say 523 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 8: you make the call on this, like, shouldn't he get 524 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 8: a the hearing, get the vote at the very least? 525 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 2: Well, he didn't do that, and that's why he forfeits this. 526 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 2: This is you know, when you reinstate somebody And here's 527 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 2: my biggest point on why I disagree with this. If 528 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 2: we found out that someone was wronged or was wrongly accused, 529 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 2: or we had new evidence that maybe Pete Rose didn't 530 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 2: do it or whatever it was, then you. 531 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 3: Go in and correct that. Okay, we have no new evidence. No, no, 532 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 3: he didn't, he didn't. Nothing violated. Yeah, yeah, right, all right? 533 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 7: Rob? 534 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 3: Wait? Rob, shouldn't he get a vote by. 535 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 8: But this, this is not this is not placing him 536 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 8: into the Hall of Fame. He didn't fast track into 537 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 8: the hall. He's not being inducted this summer. He's going 538 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 8: to a committee in two years. So that I'm better 539 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 8: with let the Hall of famers themselves. I think there 540 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 8: should be an all Hall of Fame committee like they 541 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 8: did for three times. They voted nobody in let them vote. 542 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 2: See here here's my issue. Then why even have the rules? 543 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 2: Just this should be no rules. 544 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 8: They invote the rule, they vote a rule. In nineteen ninety, Rob, Rob, 545 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 8: they didn't have a rule. No one had to tell 546 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 8: Shula Show Jackson was available to be voted on, and 547 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 8: they got like a handful of votes in nineteen thirty six, 548 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 8: I think a forty six as well. But the very 549 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 8: first vote nineteen thirty six got a handful of votes. 550 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 8: But most of the writers are like, no, the writers 551 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 8: could do you who could have said the same thing 552 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 8: in nineteen ninety one. No, and now this wouldn't be 553 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 8: an issue. 554 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, but the only reason is I think baseball at 555 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 2: the time made the right decision. The biggest harm to 556 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 2: the game is the integrity of it. And when you 557 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 2: don't have integrity on what you're watching is real or not, 558 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 2: then you got to ask yourself is this WWE or 559 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 2: is this real? And you can't jeopardize that and the 560 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 2: whole notion every time I hear Pete didn't bet against 561 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 2: the Reds, Pete this, that and the other thing. So 562 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 2: you mean to tell me that a gambler with a 563 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 2: chance to make money is. 564 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 3: Also now he has honor and the last thing he's 565 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 3: going to do is bet against. 566 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 2: The team when he knows the starting pitcher on his 567 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 2: team is terrible and is going to get lit up tonight. 568 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 3: I mean, come on, yeah with you. 569 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 8: You're right, You're right. 570 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 3: What do you vote for the steroid guys? 571 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 2: Yes, And I'll tell you why hold on the steroid 572 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 2: guys who never tested positive. And before the rule was 573 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 2: put in, which is two thousand and. 574 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 8: Follow like it was okay, before the rule was put in, 575 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 8: we know it was. That was again forbidding it's for 576 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 8: voting to have to lie about it to get to 577 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:11,239 Speaker 8: get away with it. 578 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 3: There though there was no rule on the book. Now 579 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 3: you're kidding, there's no Why didn't add it? 580 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 8: If there's no rue, what didn't they say? By the way, 581 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 8: I used testosterone. It's great, it's fantastic. It's nineteen ninety eight. 582 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 8: I'm crushing it, boy, I feel great. Why didn't they 583 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 8: admit it? If it was okay, there's no rule. 584 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 3: Okay, it was not okay. 585 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 8: It was forbidden by the culture, but it was not 586 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 8: okay with the culture to take steroids. 587 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 3: Then it was not, but it. 588 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 2: Wasn't tested for and none of those guys were suspended 589 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 2: by the league. Here's the other thing. To New York 590 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 2: State send you a driving violations for not wearing a 591 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 2: seatbelt from the seventies, even though people didn't wear seatbelts. 592 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 8: Come on, you don't confuse things you knew you couldn't 593 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 8: do it back then. And by the way, all we're 594 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 8: doing this is what I always say, Rob, I'm choosing 595 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 8: whether or not to honor a player. I choose to 596 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 8: honor Fred mc over the guys who juiced. So it's 597 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 8: four hundred ninety three home runs. They don't look as 598 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 8: good as six point forty or whatever it was that 599 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,479 Speaker 8: Sammy So said. Okay, but I'm gonna choose to honor 600 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 8: the guy who played clean. 601 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 2: No, no, no, I disagree with that, because you're rewarding 602 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 2: people who don't have the statistics based on nothing other 603 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 2: than them being clean, and as a comparison to the 604 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 2: other people you should be in the hall of fame. 605 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 2: The hall of fame should be for extraordinary people who 606 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 2: have done extraordinary things and not broken the rules that 607 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 2: were set before them. 608 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 3: You know this, BK. 609 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 2: As a reporter, when you walked into a baseball clubhouse, 610 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 2: there was no sign bigger on the wall than the 611 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 2: one about gambling. Baseball was so strong on gambling. 612 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 4: If you remember the casinos. 613 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 3: When the casinos. 614 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 2: Opened up and Mickey Manno and Willie Mad's were greeters 615 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 2: in Atlantic City, they banned those guys from any base. 616 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 8: Not arguing that, yep, I prize at your leniency for 617 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 8: those who clearly violated the norms of the culture back then. 618 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 4: They clearly did, because. 619 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 2: I didn't vote for Manny Ramires because he got busted 620 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 2: after they put. 621 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,280 Speaker 8: Drove the line there. Okay, all right, we can agree 622 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 8: on disagree that largely. I hear what you're saying, but 623 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:17,879 Speaker 8: not the story. 624 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,320 Speaker 2: And you know what, they put it up to a vote, 625 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 2: not a guy to will. 626 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 3: Wind up putting voting for Pete Rose. I just won't 627 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 3: be one of them again. I'll say this last thing. 628 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 8: Bonds and Clements got on a veterans committee, right, maguire 629 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,280 Speaker 8: palmerow They got on a veterans committee, and the answer 630 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 8: was no. The answer is yes or no on Pete Rose. 631 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 3: Steep Rose is different. Pete Rose is different. He was 632 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 3: very popular and he's the all time hit king. I'm 633 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:44,360 Speaker 3: telling you he's different. 634 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 2: And that's why Baseball didn't even leave it up to 635 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,839 Speaker 2: the writers, because they did not honor a guy who 636 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 2: against their number one rule. In the words of New 637 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 2: y York TV legend the Lady Bill Jorgensen, thanking you 638 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 2: for your time this time until next time, Rob Parker 639 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 2: out d can't Davin. 640 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 3: This could be an inside of Parker. See you next week, 641 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 3: same bat time, same bat station.