WEBVTT - Part Two: Operation Nemesis and Armenian Resistance to Genocide 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:05.920 Cool Zone Media. Hello, and welcome to Cool People did 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:09.560 Cool Stuff. You're a weekly reminder that Wednesday comes after Monday, 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:12.680 and so if this part came after the first part. 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.759 I'm your host, Marta Kiljoy and my guest is James. 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.400 It's down. Hi, Hi, James, Hi, lovely to be here. 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:24.560 We were just talking about Wallace and Grommitt because we 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:29.520 are terrible people and know nothing about England except Wallace 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:29.960 and Grommit. 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:32.640 And it's a good we we we're wre It's some 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:35.240 Gromit respects over here. It's a high point of British 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:36.200 culture imperialism. 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:36.720 I think I. 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:41.320 Haven't watched since I was a kid, but I didn't 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:43.080 think there's anything problematic, Like. 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:48.160 I don't know, probably the achieved that penguin. I'm not sure. Yeah, 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:50.400 maybe they did not kind to the to the sheep. 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:56.800 Who knows, but also not problematic. It's Sophie Hi, Sophiehi. 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:05.920 And our audio engineer is Daniel Hi. Danel Hi, Danille Hi, Daniel. 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:08.920 Our theme music was written for us by unwoman. And 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:11.600 if we seem a little distracted, it's because some shit's 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:13.959 happening right now as we record that we don't know 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:16.000 what's going to happen, but we're not going to tell 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:18.080 you what it is because you're you live in the 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:20.400 future and either nothing happened last week or lots of 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:24.319 stuff happened last week. Anyway, This is part two of 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:31.199 a four parter about Operation Nemesis and Armenian resistance to genocide. 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:35.480 And when we last left our heroes they were like, 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:38.480 we don't like this. What do you mean the first 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:41.160 Armenian genocide. That's a terrible name for a thing that's 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:45.760 happening to us. What are you getting at Because spoiler alert, 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:49.080 it's going to get worse than twenty years. But it's 0:01:49.120 --> 0:02:00.000 the eighteen nineties and the Sultan wants to simplify his kingdom. 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:03.680 The Sultan has overseen wide scale massacre of Armenian populations 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:06.840 and they organize to do something about it. They started 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:10.160 defending themselves by setting up Friend of the Pod revolutionary 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:16.000 socialist organizations that were unabashedly into terrorism. I didn't set 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:18.400 out to have be a friend of the Pod, but 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:20.680 it is a thing that people have hit upon a 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.560 lot in life. When you're in the middle of being 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:30.400 mass murdered, is to resist by the means that are available. To. 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:33.480 Yeah, it does work. It's it's one of the few 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:36.480 ways to not get mass murdered or it to minimize 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:37.320 the mass murdering. 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.880 Yeah, unfortunately, well we don't really have an ab we 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:46.880 can't like scientific death at history. But oh, that would 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:51.040 be dark. Oh I would totally watch a TV show 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:54.720 where people anyway whatever, like once we invent time machines 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.680 and we just destroy them all. I'm a little bit 0:02:57.680 --> 0:02:59.840 off track. I love this. I love this. 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.560 That would be a great podcast. Marga goes back in time. 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:04.760 She has five Kalashni coughs. Who will she give them to? 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:10.400 Yeah, and two boats put in the boat. Yeah, you're 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:14.839 the Marines now. Because Armenian resistance culture has always been 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:18.960 well historically was actually pretty interestingly leftist and anti authoritarian. 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:22.320 This goes back a long time, back to future friend 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:25.760 of the pod, the Polician who's I'll know how to 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:27.680 pronounce their name by the time I talk about them. 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:31.320 More Christian rebels of the seventh century who revolted against feudalism, 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:33.560 the superstitions of the church, and the oppression of women 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:39.360 by men, which is pretty early to start having a 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:41.080 revolt for those things. 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:43.560 Yet into it, I'd love to see that. Yeah, I'm 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:45.000 excited to learn more about them one day. 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:47.120 Yeah, well, we'll build a time machine and we'll give 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:50.440 them collestional coughs and see what happens. Sick. Probably it'll 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:52.480 be that if you take the most ardent revolutionary and 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:54.440 give them a koalestion of cough within a month, or 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:59.280 worse than the Zar himself, but you know whatever. Fast 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:03.200 forward back to the eighteen nineties and these early Armenian 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:07.000 nationalist movements. They start off honestly pretty cool as far 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.840 as I can tell. They're really into forming a secular 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:15.600 democracy that doesn't discriminate regardless of ethnicity, gender, or immigration status. 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:19.760 Like specifically, they're like, hey, it doesn't matter whether or 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.880 not you're born here, Like, we want everyone to be 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:26.479 treated the same. This is far better than modern quote 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:31.600 unquote democracies. Yeah, including this one. Yeah. The most famous 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:35.160 of these organizations doesn't get called ARF, and that is 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:42.240 a shame. It's the Armenian Revolutionary Federation or ARF. They're 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:44.560 mostly called mostly called toshnog. 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:48.360 Okay, also cool wood, fun wood to say, no, that's true, 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:49.920 good bad name, that's true. 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:54.559 ARF is just fun. Because I'm a terrible person. The fighter. 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:57.040 They were mostly called toshnog their fighters are called Tashnog's 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:02.400 and arf was started by mixture of anarchists, socialists, and nationalists, 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.160 which is a ow the kind of thing only the 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:08.760 nineteenth century is providing. Yeah yeah, yeah, or probably the 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:14.279 twenty first century. Yay, but we'll know better this time 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:17.920 and it'll be worse. They desire to create a quote 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:21.839 libertarian socialist society in Armenia with freedom of religion and 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:25.239 speech and assembly and all that shit. They were founded 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:29.080 by folks in a blurry space between socialism, anarchism, and nationalism. 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:31.080 Like it was less like I'm an anarchist and I'm 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:33.120 joining this, I'm a socialist, I'm a nationalist. It was 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:36.440 like a little a little stew you know. Yeah. 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:38.880 I think that was probably a lot more common back then, 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:41.119 Like we see that a lot of other movements around 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:44.560 the turn of the twentieth century. Right, Yeah, you don't 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:46.400 have to like have a flag in your bio. You 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:49.200 can just be a person who has heterodox beliefs taken 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:50.200 from different sources. 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:56.000 Yeah yeah, Now I'm like imagining what their flag. Anyway, 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:59.919 they probably had a flag, and they also the founders 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:04.000 this cut their teeth as part of the Russian nihilists. 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:06.839 They were like just part of the people run around 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:08.920 trying to explode the czar or I think that this 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.080 was people's will who are a little bit distinct but 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:17.599 are not I don't know, whatever the blurry speaking of 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:21.720 a stew of revolutionary terrorists, that's where they come from, 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:25.560 the stew of revolutionary terrorists in Russia. The arf is 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:29.719 still around somewhere along the way. They got shitty, at 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:32.880 least according to an Armenian that I talked to, they 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:36.760 started leaning way more into the nationalism and like homophobia 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:41.160 and like pure bloodlines and if you're not the right 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:46.240 kind of Christian you're bad, they know, and less on 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:49.359 the socialism and not at all in the anarchism these days. 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:54.000 I think that this shift started happening in the twentieth century, 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:56.240 probably in the interwar period, like shortly after the events 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:58.600 we're going to be talking about this week and next week, 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:04.719 but I couldn't promise you. But in the meantime, before 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:09.520 they became reactionaries, they started off really cool. I think, 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:12.200 as justus as I can figure, they did cool stuff. 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:15.440 And there's a bunch of other groups as well, including 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.320 one that's like more properly Marxist, but they're less woven 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:22.240 into this particular story. And so these groups they just 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:28.080 went around defending Armenian people, and they did that by 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:31.680 killing collaborators and spies and dumping their bodies on the 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:35.080 streets with like notes attached to them being like, shouldn't 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:36.960 a snitch, motherfucker. I don't know what the notes said. 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:41.760 The notes said, do you know, shouldn't snitch? Motherfucker? Yeah, 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:45.040 And they raised money for their cause by kidnapping wealthy 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:50.240 Armenians and holding them for ransom. Okay, impressive, real Robin 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.080 hood vibes. Yeah. And their other big thing that they 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:56.360 were into was handing out illegal firearms to villagers so 0:07:56.400 --> 0:08:00.920 that people could themselves defend themselves from me. Yeah. Yeah. 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:04.400 Every time they get a little bit cooler, I know. Okay, 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:07.400 and then here's where they either peak cool or start 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.280 going bad. Who knows. If you just read about it 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:13.040 and out of context, it's kind of like neat flavoring 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:18.280 because they are these anarchist socialist nationalists, Christian Holy Army 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:21.720 fighting for a secular state in gender equality through gorilla 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.280 campaigns and terrorism. But they are like also into all 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:28.480 this religious iconography even though they're fighting for a secular state. 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:31.960 The volunteer fighters take on a name that means devotee. 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:35.560 Some workers for the party were called apostles, and the 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:38.560 gorilla fighters in the hills were called martyrs for the 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:43.439 cause because they weren't expected to survive. Interesting, Yeah, I. 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:48.160 Get lots of and I'm thinking specifically of the Kurdish 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:52.360 freedom gorillas, So you use their culture of martyrdom is 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:53.320 very developed there. 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:57.400 Yeah, like outside of a religious context. Yeah, and this 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:00.840 is like within a religious context but also within a 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:02.600 pro secular Yeah. 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:05.320 That's reading like, yeah, they're religious, but they're not like 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:06.600 a theocrat. 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:10.760 Yeah, it's like a culturally religious thing. Again, the best 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:15.120 I can read about this, you know, and the word 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:17.400 for their actions like what we would call like an 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:21.160 action or a direct action or a military campaign or 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:25.120 something they would call a holy task. Oh wow, the 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:28.720 holy work. I don't know. I like, I just like 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.360 the idea of this like holy work of ensuring religious freedom, 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:36.200 including freedom from religion. Yeah, I can appreciate that. And 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.400 then before they would go into battle, priests would come 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:42.240 out and bless them. But despite this resistance, Muslim violence 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:44.760 against the Christians continued, and it's like, again, we can't 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:48.000 ab test. It's possible that this was not as complete 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:49.920 because of this culture of resistance. We do know that 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:56.320 ARF was incredibly influential, but the massacre of Armenians, the 0:09:56.320 --> 0:10:00.920 culture of massacre continues. They are especially priests, get it. 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.600 I think this is when they start crucifying everyone. It's like, 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:06.560 I'm not gonna get into the specific examples because I'm 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:08.280 gonna do it later when we talk about the genocide 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.160 and I'm sorry, but it feels necessary, so I'm not 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.200 gonna do it this time. So, but it's bad, It's 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.400 really bad. And so the ARF and the other groups 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:18.760 are like, well, how the fuck do we get the 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:20.600 world to know about what we're facing? And this is 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:25.280 a major problem that Armenians continue to face to this day. Yeah, 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:28.480 and so they're like, well, why don't we go raid 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:31.920 and occupy a huge bank that's owned by the Westerners, 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:37.400 the Imperial Bank Ottoman. Okay, love this, yeah, no, this 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:40.080 is watching a movie about all of this. In eighteen 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:44.840 ninety six, they do just that. Two dozen Tashnag fighters 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.160 run into the bank, throwing bombs, they shoot and kill 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:51.480 a guard, they get hostages, like dozens of hostages, and 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.760 they occupy the building, and they go through the building 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:57.120 and they put dynamite on every floor so that like 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:02.760 if someone fucks with them, that they're all going out. Yeah, 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:06.200 the early mutually issued destruction. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.040 I love this era because, like the I feel like, 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:11.480 at no point, possibly we're approaching another point where this 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:13.679 will be the case again, has the state and just 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:18.280 like random groups of people motivated by whatever been like 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:22.080 roughly at a par in terms of their capacity to 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.120 do violence, right, Like, everyone has fucking dynamite. People are 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:28.920 getting maxim guns, you know, like, yeah, there's nothing the 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:31.360 cops have that you don't. There's no Apache helicopter to 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:33.520 come after you. 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:36.000 No, that's a good point. Although there is artillery involved 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:40.079 in this story, but I mean soon enough, there's artillery 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:44.599 in all sides, right, yeah, it's just a tube. Yeah. 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.440 And so the Sultan is like, well, it's not my 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:50.000 fucking bank. I'll just kill you all. Fuck the hostages. 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:54.520 I'm just gonna kill everyone. But the Western forces that 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:57.600 are like kind of occupying this place already because they 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:01.679 have so many economic interests, they tell the Sultan they 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.240 point guns at the Sultan's palace and they are like, 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:06.760 if you blow up our bank, we will level the 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:10.439 palace of the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire. It's when 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:14.120 you know, capitalism done taken out of the yeah, exactly. 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:20.720 And so this three way standoff. One of the arf 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:22.800 guys was this twenty four year old who went by 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:25.800 the name of Arman Garo and he's later going to 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:28.480 become one of the masterminds of Operation Nemesis and like 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:31.800 a big important, like Armenian politician, and we'll talk about 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:35.000 him a bunch. He was born into a wealthy family 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:37.600 and he had been studying abroad in France when he 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:40.000 learned about how Armenians were being treated back home and 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:42.960 he was like, not fuck that, and he volunteered to 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:45.040 fight and he didn't show up and like I'm in charge. 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:48.680 He actually the actual military commander of this operation was 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:52.839 a seventeen year old named Babkinsuni and he was killed 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:56.679 during the takeover, and so I think Arman wound up 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.719 in charge or because he's like so important and immortalized. 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:01.400 Later I kind of get the sense that maybe they 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.040 were like he was there, so therefore he's in charge. 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:08.800 Because the later he's in charge of everything, right, post promoted. Yeah, 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:11.000 but I'm I'm not sure. Maybe he was in charge. 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:16.240 He ended up negotiating with the Westerners, and the Westerners 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:20.439 negotiated surrender with the Sultan, and the bank occupiers were 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.280 all whisked away to Europe. Some of them were deported 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:25.599 to Argentina. And the implication is that it did not 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:29.559 go well for them. They were never heard from again. Okay, 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:34.640 none of their demands were met. Meanwhile, during the bank occupation, 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:39.959 Turkish paramilitary is just like angry militia's classic villain of 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:44.080 the pod. These Islamic students in white turbans with clubs 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:48.040 filled with nails went around and killed thousands of Armenians 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:52.800 in the streets of Constantinople. It's like one of those 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:56.160 things where like, wow, this has happened in Western Europe, 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:58.079 we would fucking know about this, you know, right. 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:00.920 Yeah, it's done a good They've done a good job 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:03.640 of like kind of hiding this from most people's knowledge 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:04.360 of world history. 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:10.560 Yeah, but at the moment this did bring the ARF action, 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:13.280 did bring the whole oppression of the Armenian people into 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:17.079 the international spotlight. So the AARF saw it as a victory, 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:19.600 but like kind of in this like god were so 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:23.760 fucked way where they're like, yeah, hooray, thousands of us 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:25.840 were going to die anyway, and thousands of us died. 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:32.840 But people were looking and no, I'm not going to 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:35.000 do an ad transition there as too too. I'm gonna 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:38.640 get another paragraph before I do it. Can't do it, 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:45.000 She's podcast enough. Yet after the bank occupation, nothing was 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:51.160 getting better, and so the ARF was like, well, this 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:55.840 is the end of the nineteenth century and let's just 0:14:55.960 --> 0:15:01.720 kill the sultan. Yeah, why not go for broke? Yeah, 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:04.600 much like you can go broke, I mean four broke 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:09.720 with all of our gambling ads, go gamble. That's always 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:14.440 a good idea. Wow, wow, thanks Gat, Thanks proud of myself. 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:27.720 Here they are and we're back, and we were talking 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.600 about assassinating world leaders in history. 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:35.120 I like you added that that's a special caveat to 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:36.960 keep us from getting an FBI visit. 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:41.200 Yeah, And they were like, you know, he's particularly good 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:43.720 at assassinating world leaders. You know, he's famous for it. 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.920 Who do you think the ARF is gonna call their 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:51.120 anarchist friends? Yep, yes, I love it. They're like, we 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:53.680 need to get ourselves some anarchists. It's possible that a 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:55.520 fuck ten of them were anarchists themselves, and it just 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:57.240 wasn't noted in the text that I read, you know, 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:01.240 because the two things. Okay, I have learned that if 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:03.640 it's not written by a socialist, it leaves out all 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.920 of the left right. And if it was written by socialists, 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:08.840 it leaves out the anarchists. And if it was written 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:11.320 by anarchists, it leaves out women. All of them leave 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:14.960 out women. This is the Margaret rule of history books 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:16.240 written in the twentieth century. 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:18.600 Yeah, this is true, and you get there are some 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:20.200 good books on anarchist women in Spain. 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:22.760 Okay, fair enough, but they had to be written because 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:26.720 of the twenty the historians the twentieth century, which is okay. 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:28.600 One of the reasons I'm annoyed is that all of 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:30.480 the anarchists who were like doing the shit and all 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:33.120 the revolutionaries who were doing the shit were like, half 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:36.000 of us are women. We love we're fighting for gender equality. 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:37.920 Check out, I'm going to name drop all the people 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.280 who are doing all this cool shit. And then the 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.680 like fucking armchair historians of the twentieth century were like 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:47.520 and then de Rudy single handedly save Spain or whatever. 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.080 Yeah, I often see that de Ruti like single handedly 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:53.440 like led their resistance to the coup, Like now, I 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:56.320 see it on social media, and it's just yeah, it's 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:58.360 a betrayal of everything he would have staid for. 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.680 And so this is a example of both of these 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:03.720 categories that have been largely left out. But now that 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:07.000 they have an assassin, they can't leave out the anarchists completely. 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.760 So they went and they got two Belgian anarchists, a 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.560 married couple. You will be shocked to know that I 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:17.960 don't know the woman's name. I can't find it. Oh god. 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:21.960 I had to reinsert her based on context, knowing that 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:25.680 she was absolutely part of this plot and absolutely involved 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:30.680 because she had to run from the cops in the end. Anyway, 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:35.359 Margaret is angry at historians. Yeah, it's a story of 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:39.479 that's the free space these days on the Bingo. So 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:43.959 the narrative is always a Belgian anarchist named Edward Joris 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:45.560 came and helped them, even though his wife was one 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.600 hundred percent part of the plot. Fuck you history books. 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:51.320 I know more about Edward, so I'm gonna talk a 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:53.720 little bit about him. He was a man whose anarchist 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.800 politics led him to believe quite strongly an anti colonial struggle, 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:01.320 so he was down to get involved. And they all decided, 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:05.560 let's do a time bomb. Let's do a car time bomb. 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.359 And they called it Operation Dragon because the Armenians they 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:15.840 are good, solid namers, just classic names. Operation Dragon, operation Nemesis. 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.600 Nemesis is a fantastic one, like you can't go wrong 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:22.000 with that. No, no, they're yeah Dragon unless they find 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:23.679 your plans and they pretty much know you're going to 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:25.280 blow shit up with Operation Dragon. 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:28.919 I have the word sedition tattooed on my hands, so 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.439 I like to believe that this my speech will somehow 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:33.879 apply in the court situation. 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:37.119 Yeah, that's why Margaret was unforciate, unable to attend January 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:37.600 to sixth. 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:48.040 I was so mad that the seditionists. So one of 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:49.639 the reasons that this is interesting to me that they 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:52.760 plan this car bomb to kill the Sultan is because 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:57.440 history does record the anarchist as inventors of the car bomb. 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:01.640 Sorry about that, but yeah, I hate a car bomb. 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:07.000 That's sad. I've been subject to no probmity to car bombs. Yeah, 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:10.360 this one. In nineteen twenty, the Wall street car bombing, 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:12.880 which was bad and it was fucked up and I'm 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:15.000 mad about it, but it was done by anarchists. 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:18.879 You know, we have the first podcast network to live 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:23.280 podcast a car bomb, Margaret, that's one of our claims. 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:27.600 Like really, yeah, I know. Robert and I were we 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:30.439 were having drinks on the roof of a building just 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:34.800 to opposite the Thai Burmese border when a car bomb 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:38.119 went off and I happened to be recording on my 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:43.320 little little little podcasting machine and you can hear you 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:47.240 can hear us being like oh ah, and then wondering 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:50.119 when we're going to hear the airplane because like thinking 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:52.440 it was a regular bomb and it'd be like no, 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:55.040 and then everyone sort of being like are there any 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:59.560 more bombs? And then someone found on Facebook, like almost instantly, right, 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:02.840 and it did. These folks love to be posted on Facebook, 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.879 and there were pictures of this car bomb that we were. 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:08.600 We tried to get across too closer to visit it, 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:11.280 but it was not possible at that time. 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:14.200 So that's fair. I'm glad you all chose to continue 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.720 to be alive instead of prioritizing getting close to the bomb. 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:21.040 The real real win for cool sat and media though. Yeah, 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.360 head crews have done that, has he? Yeah, so anarchists 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:28.919 were the first podcast yeah yeah, yeah, and twenty one 0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:31.720 hundred years prior to that, we get called the first 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:38.040 car bombers for a shitty bombing. But fifteen years before that, uh, 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:40.320 we tried to car bomb the Sultan and it was 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:44.679 a larger pluralistic We'll talk about the pluralism of that movement, 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:50.960 but you know, the Belgians were involved. Their target. The 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:54.440 Sultan was really paranoid about being assassinated. He like had 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:56.240 this thing he was like he felt like he shouldn't 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.480 get assassinated. He'd prefer not to you know. 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:01.000 Yeah, it chose if you've lived a good life, if 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:03.720 you're worried about multiple people trying to assassinate you, I think. 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:08.399 Yeah, totally. For some reason, he was aware of the 0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:10.399 fact that he was like massacring a ton of people. 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:12.760 And this was like also the peak era of like 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:15.640 what if the solution is just to kill that one 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:20.520 guy though? Yeah, And every night he slept in a 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:23.200 different room of his palace and he fed his meals 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:27.000 to his cats and dogs to test for poison. But 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:29.679 he was the formal leader of Islam, so he had 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:33.800 to go to a public service every Friday. The way 0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:36.320 I know women were involved in this plot is because 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:40.119 the way that they scouted was that they would all 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:43.560 dress up as young couples looking for blessings for their weddings. 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:47.280 So at least half of the scouts were women, unless 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:52.200 they were substantially ahead of their time. I did manage 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:54.160 to find one woman's name who was involved in the plot. 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:57.320 This makes us I'm clearly pro this plot like whatever 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:02.480 as a Marxist bombmaker named Anna Nellon's her and her 0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:05.960 also bomb maker husband died later that year in a 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:09.640 tragic and entirely foreseeable We were making bombs at home 0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:11.200 and then the bombs went off accident. 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:15.200 Yeah, and it's now bomb area, you know. Yeah, don't 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:17.720 be smoking if you're making your bombs at home. 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:22.879 Yeah, something like the ultimate like Devil Make Care archetype 0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:25.359 is the smoking bomb maker in an apartment in like 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:27.760 the Lower East Side in like eighteen nineties. 0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:30.840 Yeah, I've interviewed a couple of bomb makers who have 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:33.760 had a lot of substantial parts of their bodies to 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:39.520 smoking while making bombs. Yeah, it's so like, it's so 0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:43.080 it's obviously a terrible and traumatic event. But like again, 0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:46.239 we met these bomb makers, Robert and I, and we 0:22:46.240 --> 0:22:48.360 were having a couple of beers and guys like, yeah, 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:50.560 so telling good stories and he's like, oh yeah, my friend, 0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:52.439 my friend we always made the bombs together. And we're like, 0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:54.239 what happened to your friend? And he's like, well, one 0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:56.960 day we were making bombs. And then you could just 0:22:57.000 --> 0:22:59.760 see everyone being like, well you're smoking a cigarette, bro. 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:03.040 It'll be like we went for a cigarette affect for 0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:03.680