1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: This is an I Heart original. It's August. It's a 2 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,159 Speaker 1: nearly moonless night, and it's dry after a summer and 3 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: spring of wind and rain. We're in a ramshackle house 4 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: surrounded by a moat in Westminster, just to stone throw 5 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: away from the famous abbey. It's a quiet night. A 6 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: nameless man is inside, maybe suffering through a restless sleep, 7 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: or maybe pacing the floor nervously. There's a thud at 8 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: the door, the sound of wood wrapping on wood, agents 9 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: of the Warden of the Royal Mint. The Warden had 10 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: heard from his informants that this house was a center 11 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: for clipping and counterfeiting. We know they're in here. The 12 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: agents busted their way in, put past our manager. When 13 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: they start turning the place over, searching for counterfeiting tools 14 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: and clipped coin evidence. Yeah, look, look everywhere, the nine. 15 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: But our man's ready. He's planned for this. He quickly 16 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: scuttles out a window and crosses the rain swollen moat 17 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: on a plank of wood that's been left for precisely 18 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: this purpose. He escapes, leaving the agents empty handed, no evidence, 19 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: no suspect, nothing. Damn it well. But three days later 20 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: our man is caught and this time, he doesn't run. 21 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: He can't run. Instead, this nameless informant points a finger 22 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: at one Henry Atkinson and his wife Jane Henry Atkinson 23 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: who also goes by Atkins him and his wife, She's 24 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: Jane Demens the ones you want. The informant also told 25 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: the agents where to find the Atkinson's tools. They'd cleverly 26 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: sunk some of them in the moat by the root 27 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: of a willow tree. The Warden's agents search the house again, 28 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: this time finding the tools where the informant said they'd be, 29 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: plus more stuffed under a floorboard in the attic. The 30 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 1: Atkinsons were arrested and after a short stay in Newgate, 31 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 1: the case against them was brought to trial. The trial 32 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: took place at this Session's House, better known as the 33 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,679 Speaker 1: Old Bailey, on the ninth of September. The Session's House 34 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: had been built adjacent to Newgate in the previous century, 35 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: specifically to hold trials. It was called the Old Bailey 36 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: because it was built in the space inside the curtain wall, 37 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: the part of a fortification called a bailey. Prisoners were 38 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: brought over from the jail to stand in what was 39 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: essentially an open air theater with only three walls. This 40 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: was to reduce the spread of disease. At this point, 41 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: Isaac Newton had been wardened for more than four months 42 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: and he was a quick learner. Obviously, the witness will 43 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,119 Speaker 1: stay that he saw Hayden the Atkinson also known as Atkins, 44 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: and his wife Jane of St Marty's in the Field 45 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: Parish clipping a hundred and fifty of the crowns shillings 46 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: and falsely coining two hundred sixty shillings is not true. 47 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: The Atkinson's didn't really stand a chance. They would not 48 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: have had a lawyer to defend them, or to point 49 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: out that maybe the testimony of the guy literally found 50 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: at the scene of the crime wasn't terribly trustworthy. All 51 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: they would have had is their own word and other people. 52 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: Not enough people to act as character witnesses against meticulous 53 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: Isaac Newton and his army of thief takers and witnesses. 54 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: The jury found them guilty of booth indictment. According to 55 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: the court records the sentence. Henry was executed at the 56 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: Tyburn Tree. Jane pled her belly, meaning that she claimed 57 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: to be pregnant to escape the gallows. It worked, but 58 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: there's no record of what happened to her next. The 59 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: Atkinson's conviction demonstrated that the Newton who stood in sessions 60 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: house witnesses at the ready, who milked his information network 61 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: for leads on coiners and clippers who had an information network, 62 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 1: was not the same Newton who first walked into the 63 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: Mint back in May. This Newton knows what he's doing 64 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: for I Heart Radio. I'm Linda Rodriguez, McRobbie and this 65 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:34,119 Speaker 1: is Newton's Law and I Heart original podcast, episode five, 66 00:04:35,400 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: Crime and Punishment seventeenth century style. You are making Act 67 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: one the oath. So I'm sitting having a point at 68 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: the Old Bell Tavern. This is a very historic pub 69 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: and it would definitely, definitely have been here during the 70 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 1: time that Isaac Newton was warden of the Royal Mint. 71 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: And it's very likely that a pub just like this, 72 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: if not this pub, would have been a place that 73 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: Isaac Newton would have met with informants. This would have 74 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: been the kind of place where Newton would have asked 75 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: prisoners to come out of the jail, be brought by guards, 76 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,559 Speaker 1: and where he would have met with them to talk 77 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: about information what he could get out of them. Ferreting 78 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 1: out informants and doing deals with snitches and dirty pubs, 79 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: representing the Crown in front of judges and juries, and 80 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: prosecuting counterfeiters and clippers, sending people to the gallows. This 81 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: was not the job Isaac Newton thought he was getting. 82 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: When Charles Montague, Chancellor of the Exchequer, offered Newton the job, 83 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: he told him that being warden has not too much 84 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: business to require more attendance than you may spare. But 85 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 1: Montague hadn't reckoned on a few things, the three coinage 86 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: that Newton was sorting out, and the epidemic of counterfeiters 87 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 1: and clippers that Newton, as warden as the Crown's magistrate, 88 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: was contractually obligated to pursue. When Newton became Warden of 89 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: the Royal Mint, he took an oath to protect the 90 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: Mint's secret coining and edging machinery. I swear that I 91 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: will not reveal or discover to any person or persons 92 00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: whatsoever the new invention of rounding the money and making 93 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: the edges of them with letters or grainings, or either 94 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: of them directly or indirectly. So help me God. He 95 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: took that oath and all it implied, very very seriously. Unfortunately, 96 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: previous wardens hadn't now clippers and counterfeiters had done serious 97 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: damage to the country's economy. But that wasn't the only 98 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: damage they've done. The crimes of counterfeiting and clipping weren't 99 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: just economic ones. They were socially subverting ones as well. 100 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: They undermined governmental authority. But remember, in the seventeenth century, 101 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: there's no police, no agency charged with apprehending criminals. That 102 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: wouldn't happen until eight nine with the formation of the 103 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: Metropolitan Police Force. In fact, for most of English history 104 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: there was no dedicated police force because individuals were obligated 105 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: to report crime and pursue criminals. This was what was 106 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: called Hugh and I and it had been part of 107 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: the legal framework since twelved five. Basically, if a citizen 108 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: saw a crime happening, they were obligated to start shouting 109 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: and yelling until the suspect was caught and put into 110 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: the custody of a constable or justice of the peace 111 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: that just stand there, do something. Oh game, game before 112 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: we escape season thief And if you heard someone shouting 113 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: thief or murder, then you are obligated to join that 114 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: human cry and pursue the offender to come on everyone 115 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: he sent him for the alley. This is a system 116 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: of justice in which everyone more or less was deputized. 117 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: But by the time Newton is in London, the system 118 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: of individual responsibility for the greater good is showing its cracks. 119 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: People in this growing city are increasingly an anomous and 120 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: they're finding it easier and easier to ignore that duty. 121 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 1: So you had large cities like London where you didn't 122 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 1: know your next door neighbor, or you didn't know the 123 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: people down the street, and people could travel quite easily 124 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: from one era to the other. So when I had 125 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: my point at the Old Bell where Newton might have 126 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: once interrogated prisoners and paid off informants, I wasn't alone. 127 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: My name's Harry Potter, believe it or not. I'm a 128 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: criminal barrister, but I'm also historian. I've written several books 129 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 1: on criminal justice, history of the common law, history of prisons, 130 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: and the history of capital punishment. London at the time 131 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: Newton was patrolling the streets, so to speak, was seeing 132 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: a rise in crime. More people, more opportunity, more crime. 133 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: When you're walking the street, you have your pocket lot, 134 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: and you have your purse or handkerchief, and it was 135 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 1: quite easy for people to steal those particular items and 136 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: run away and not get caught because there was no 137 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: police force in the sense that we would understand, but 138 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: creating an official or governmentally backed police force that wasn't 139 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: even an idea at the time, because the theory was, 140 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: if there's little means of preventing crime, we need big 141 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: means of deterring it. The solution to rising crime in 142 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, as it turns out, was 143 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: capital punishment. It was probably accepted by certainly by the 144 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: authorities and by quite a lot of other people that 145 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: if you had very draconian punishments for relatively minor offenses, 146 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: that would stop people committing by and that, of course 147 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: that's why those who were executed were executed public. And 148 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: that brings us to Newton's other role as prosecutor. As 149 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: the guy getting those people to the gallows, Newton was 150 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: essentially both a cop and a prosecutor. With no police force, 151 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: there could be no bright line between those two roles. 152 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: This meant that Newton had to be thinking about how 153 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 1: to make a case stick from the very beginning of 154 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: his investigations. Also, at this time, we're moving away from 155 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: medieval methods of justice. Trial by ordeal, for example, had 156 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: largely fallen out of practice by this century, except when 157 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 1: it came to which is don't care, and we're moving 158 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: into something more recognizable but not totally modern. You have 159 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: a judge presiding over the case, you have a jury 160 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: that would be deciding on on on guilt or innocence, 161 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: and would be certain norms of evidence rather than rules 162 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 1: of references. But this was still a system that dramatically 163 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: disadvantaged the accused. When we say that the Atkinson's didn't 164 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: really have a chance, we mean it. The jury needed 165 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: to be shown convincing evidence to convict, but the presumption 166 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: of innocence reasonable doubt. These were ideas that were only 167 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: just about now being expressed. Juries were chosen from a 168 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: very narrow pool of mostly wealthier white men of good standing, 169 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 1: so that had to have an impact on who was 170 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: likely to be convicted. The defense in a very different position, 171 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: because often he doesn't even know what the charges are 172 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: um and certainly wouldn't know the names of the prosecution witnesses, 173 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: of the nature of the evidence that had been accrued 174 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: against him. So it was then very much more difficult 175 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: for the defendant to produce witnesses on his side, or 176 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: even character witnesses. And often you didn't know the trial 177 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: date um, So you know, if you've got a witness 178 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: in Wilkeshire and the trial might be sometime in June, 179 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: and you can't really expect them to come up to 180 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: London to spend a month in London waiting for a 181 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: trial that may or may not take place. So the 182 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: defense were disadvantages, and that's of course some people were 183 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: still acquitted. Newton had learned that the hard way when 184 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: mine alleged clippers and coiners that he had brought in 185 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: were found not guilty in July. Juries were sometimes reluctant 186 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: to convict because the punishment was so final. Some people 187 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: suggested that relatively milder punishments, such as facial disfigurement or 188 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: hard labor might induce juries to convict more often. And 189 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: then there was that forty pound reward informers got for snitching. 190 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: The deservers had a hard time believing that people weren't 191 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 1: tempted to lie by what was a lot of money, 192 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: around ten thousand pounds or nearly fourteen thousand dollars. Now, 193 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: convicts could also be pardoned, and people under suspicion could 194 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: be cleared if they turned informant. But there was also 195 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: this too. The threat of death just wasn't enough to 196 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: deter the dedicated coiners and clippers, nor was the opprobrium 197 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: of the rest of society, because really people did not 198 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: like clippers and coiners. This was not a crime that 199 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 1: garnered any sympathy at all. Counterfeitures were well aware of 200 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: the subrity of the punishment for the crime, and yet 201 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: went on their merry way in large number of simply 202 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: because the prophets were so great. It's a bit like 203 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: drug dealing now in this country. Supplying Class A drums 204 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: get very heavy sentences, but the rewards are enorse. So 205 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: if Newton is going to catch and convict William Chaloner, 206 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: as well as the loads of other coiners and clippers 207 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: nibbling away at the nation's economic strength, he was going 208 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: to have to start thinking like a scientist. A scientist 209 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: detective Act two, Isaac Newton met detective. Newton's appointment to 210 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: Warden essentially made him a detective and a prosecutor, not 211 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: that he wanted either role. He even tried to get 212 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: out of it. After two months on the job, Newton 213 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: wrote to the Treasury to complain. I do not find 214 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: that the prosecuting of coiners was imposed upon any of 215 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: my predecessors, nor is that any reward or encouragement appointed 216 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: for my service in these matters, Nor am I provided 217 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: with any competent assistance to enable me to grapple with 218 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: an undertaking sore, vexatious and dangerous as this. Therefore, I 219 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: humbly pray that it may not be imposed upon me 220 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: any longer. The Treasury, however, disagreed this was his job, 221 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: so Newton once again rolled up his sleeves and got 222 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: to work. Chris Barker, historian at the Royal Mint, The 223 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: interesting thing is that despite pushing back, and continually pushing back, 224 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: and saying, don't give this to me, give this somebody 225 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: else more qualified, give this somebody else from a from 226 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: more legal perspective, he does throw himself into it. So 227 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: this is a man that, despite loathing this your work, 228 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: is doing an awful lot of it in a way 229 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: that you might expect from a police inspector and a 230 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: judge and prosecution today. In many ways you'd think that 231 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: a man who had spent his entire adult life cloistered 232 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: behind the ivy clad walls of rural academia would have 233 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: no idea where to start and trying to ferret out counterfeiters. 234 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: But what Newton had going for him was what made 235 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: him a weirdo at Cambridge and then a rock star mathematician, 236 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: his relentless, remorseless focus on dismantling and solving a problem. 237 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: Just as he had approached the problem of the Great Recoinage, 238 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: Newton dove into the archives. He compiled a history of 239 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: all the cases of prosecuted coiners and clippers going back 240 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: twenty five years, and he looked for patterns. Evidence came in, 241 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: that's all and petty at the clipping trade and others. 242 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: Divers quantities of silver melted down. George Clark, Mary Clark, 243 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: and George Clark, their son, indicted for clipping and filing 244 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: the lawful coin of this kingdom. Just as if this 245 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: was a new method for, say, distilling mercury. Newton studied 246 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: the mechanics of counterfeiting, how it worked. Daniel Decoyda and 247 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: Catherine Decoyna, his wife, both French people, indicted for clipping 248 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: forty Elizabethan shillings. He was found guilty of the high pleason, 249 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 1: but as to his wife, there being no witnesses she 250 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 1: had a hand in the design or was assisting her 251 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: husband in his unlawful practices, she was acquitted. He saw 252 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,959 Speaker 1: how counterfeiters might escape the law, such as literally escaping 253 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: it by leaving the city, so he bought himself Justice 254 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 1: of the Peace appointments in seven counties that ringed London, 255 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: so we could get information, make a rest and takedown 256 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: operations outside the city without worrying about pesky legal is 257 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: use of jurisdiction. Newton also realized counterfeiting wasn't a lone 258 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: wolf kind of crime. Making and distributing the fakes couldn't 259 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: be done alone. Two most notorious coiners and clippers of 260 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 1: money here were found guilty of too indictments of high 261 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: trees and apace. They were both of a gang and 262 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 1: confessed they had for some years been concerned in such practices. 263 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: This was organized crime involving gangs of people. Big time 264 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: counterfeiters and Williams Challoner hid behind the buyers and utterers 265 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: who got the fakes out into trade. In the short 266 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: term This kept the identities of the counterfeiters secret, but 267 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: as Newton found out, it also created a weakness. It 268 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: meant that someone in the chain might be willing to 269 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: turn informant. This maybe isn't as revelatory as a apple 270 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: falling on his head, but it's certainly changed the course 271 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: of Newton's work. It's way fun to picture Newton as 272 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: a big city police inspector sitting behind a metal desk 273 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 1: with a mug okay dish of coffee tobacco smoke swirling 274 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,719 Speaker 1: around his curly silver wig and demanding that his agents 275 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: get him the information or they can turn in their 276 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: gun and badge. Except that no one had badges because 277 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: you know, no police, and no one had guns either, 278 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 1: because they were all called blunderbusses or dragons and they 279 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: were just as likely to blow your hand off as 280 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 1: blow away the bad guy. And Newton definitely didn't smoke 281 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: smoking a pop I'm unwilling to make to myself and 282 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: the necessities. But Newton's operations did grow bigger, more complicated 283 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: until he was running a kind of detective agency headquartered 284 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 1: at the Mint. Newton employed thief takers and sometimes mint 285 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 1: staff to go out into the streets and track down 286 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: bad coins, and then to follow the chain back from 287 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: where the coin first appeared to whoever made it. Here's 288 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: Tom Levin's an author of Newton and the Counterfeiter. Most 289 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: of all, Newton was really relentless in doing the classic 290 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: investigative thing, you capture one person. Counterfeiting is not a 291 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 1: solo crime. Those involved in currency were a small group, 292 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: including both those who were making the currency and those 293 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 1: who were unmaking it by various schemes. You know, their 294 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: their affairs and their concerns, and hence just their physical 295 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: routes through the day. Uh necessarily overlapped. One of his agents, 296 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 1: playing the role of a London coiner on the run 297 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: from the law, uncovered a nest of counterfeiters in Cambridgeshire 298 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: who boasted a milling machine very like the one used 299 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: by the Mint. Records also show that Newton expensed the 300 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 1: Mint for the cost of a set of clothes one 301 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 1: of his agents needed to go undercover to infiltrate a 302 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: gang of coiners. Newton most certainly paid people for information 303 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: to in addition to dangling the chance to get out 304 00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 1: of jail or get off a charge in front of that. 305 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: According to Tom Levinson, between sixteen ninety six and six, 306 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: the Mint reimbursed Newton's six hundred and twenty six pounds, 307 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: five shillings and ninepence for all the expenses he incurred 308 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: in catching coiners. That's around a hundred and twenty one 309 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: thousand pounds in today's money. August paid the keeper of 310 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: the Savoy Prison for sending his man into Lewis in 311 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: Sussex to apprehend Emiray, a coiner. September nine paid Taylor, 312 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: an engraver in Holborn, for charges and pains in discovering 313 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: Williamson and other coiners of several gangs. November one paid 314 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: Duglas towards the charges of himself and two others and 315 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: the horses in going on hundred and fifty miles to 316 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 1: apprehend coiners. Some of Newton's agents were more trustworthy than others, 317 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: but many took advantage of their position. Several ended up 318 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: in Newgate themselves after turning counterfeit or trafficking and stolen goods. Still, 319 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: others were known to blackmail people that they were after, 320 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: or run protection rackets. Not that thief takers even needed 321 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 1: to resort to criminal behavior to make the whole enterprise 322 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: dubiously unjust. They got paid for their arrests based on 323 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: whether or not the individual was convicted, so they often 324 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: testified and brought evidence against the people they arrested. The 325 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: potential for abuse of this was obviously enormous. Newton was 326 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: also fairly hands on himself. He interviewed informants and suspects 327 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: when his agents brought them in, though many of the 328 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 1: depositions were later burned. Exactly why is an open question, 329 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 1: but it was at Newton's order. There's evidence that he 330 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: took down fifty eight different depositions in just two months alone. 331 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,199 Speaker 1: And it wasn't just the depositions. A man who in 332 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: his former life rarely went to the pub, Newton was 333 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: suddenly spending time in taverns across London, taverns like the 334 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 1: Old Bell, the Magpie and Stump or the Dog, buying 335 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 1: drinks and information. He also stopped by the prisons, sometimes 336 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 1: rewarding good information with the chance to avoid the gallows. 337 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 1: There's evidence that he had informant prisoners moved from jail 338 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: to jail for their safety and for their ability to 339 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: gather more information. Information say on what happened to the 340 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: Tower Mints missing dies. William Challoner had lobbed his little 341 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: bomb that the mint's own officers had sold the dies 342 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: to counterfeiters. In Newton's first days on the job, Newton, 343 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: though still not convinced that policing the coin should be 344 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: his job, scrambled to get information, mostly from coiners already 345 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: in jail. Thomas White was one of them. White was 346 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 1: a convicted counterfeiter awaiting execution in Newgate. He'd been found 347 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: guilty of coining forty guineas. But White had also been 348 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,679 Speaker 1: part of a bigger network, one of more of the 349 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: Tripeman's gang. According to the old Bailey records, what's a tripeman, 350 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 1: you ask, It's a man who sells stripe. So White, 351 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: facing death, started to spill all he could about the 352 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: vast network of counterfeiters operating in the city, and he 353 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: agreed with Challenger that the corruption was deep in the 354 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: Mint itself. He pointed a finger at a money or servant, 355 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: a man called Hunter, claiming that it was this Hunter 356 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: guy who sold the Mint dies out of the tower. 357 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 1: But who did he sell them too? Well, said White? 358 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: William Chaloner's gang, another convicted counterfeiter, A quote gentleman called 359 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: Peter Cook testified that the dies weren't sold. They were 360 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:42,479 Speaker 1: stolen also by William Chaloner's gang. But just before you 361 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: start thinking that things were looking a bit grim for 362 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: our friend, Mr Challenger, there's more. Mint officials naturally began 363 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: interviewing the Mint staff, people who had actual access to 364 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: the dies. An engraver called scotch Robin told them that 365 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: the dies had been stolen, but not by Challenger, by 366 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: Thomas White, the original informant. Then Robin high tailed it 367 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: to Scotland, escaping further embroilment in the whole situation. Honestly, 368 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: the laws of physics were easier to pin down than 369 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 1: whatever happened to those dyes. Newton kept White in jail, 370 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: squeezing as much information out of him as he could. 371 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,679 Speaker 1: After every interview in which White gave up more names, 372 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: names of people he'd helped set up a coining press, 373 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: for example, or names of criminals who weren't even involved 374 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 1: in counterfeiting, Newton would stay White's execution by two weeks. 375 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: More than twenty six weeks later, White was still alive, 376 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 1: although barely. Newgate was rough, really rough. More people died 377 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 1: from disease. Than the Hangman's news, for sure. Newton finally 378 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: arranged for his pardon in May, a full year after 379 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: White had been convicted and sentenced to death in the 380 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: first place. But Newton still wasn't any closer to pinning 381 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: the die theft on Challenger. He pulled in more and 382 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: more people off the street, interviewing dozens of people in 383 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: August alone. Some leads pointed to Chaloner, but Newton still 384 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: couldn't get a fix on him. The most he could 385 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: get was that Channer was somehow involved, and that wasn't 386 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: enough to get a conviction in court. No one could 387 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 1: say that they had actually seen Chaloner with the dies. 388 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: Chaloner meanwhile continued to deny to anyone who had asked, 389 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 1: but he had had anything to do with the missing dies. Instead, 390 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: he just kept doubling down on his claim that the 391 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: rot started in the mint itself. Again, Chaloner was not 392 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: so wrong about that part. Challoner offered up his own accomplices, 393 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: Thomas Holloway in particular, to help with the investigation, claiming 394 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,919 Speaker 1: that the Mint needed an outside assistant. Challoner was making 395 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: these suggestions through his contacts in Parliament and the Treasury, 396 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: and he had enough clout that Parliament's Committee on the 397 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 1: Mint encouraged Newton to allow Challenger in Newton, gritting his teeth, 398 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: rebuffed challengers advances he was not fooled by Challengers posturing criminals, 399 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: like dogs, always returned to their own vomit. And what's more, 400 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: he had taken that oath I swear that I will 401 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: not reveal or he refused to allow Chaloner or Holloway 402 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: anywhere near the mint. Newton and Chaloner were like two 403 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 1: planetary bodies moving in elliptical orbits, sometimes away from each other, 404 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: sometimes approaching, and each time their paths crossed, they learned 405 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: a little bit more about each other, filed away for 406 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: future use. But Newton had other counterfeiters to deal with, 407 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: not to mention the ongoing recoinage itself, So Newton continued 408 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: in his orbit and Challenger followed his Act three arrest. 409 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 1: That man chill Oder decided that if the men wasn't 410 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 1: going to let him use his talents, mostly legally, why 411 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: then he'd go back to using them illegally. He'd had 412 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: a bit of money set aside from his Bank of 413 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: England scam, both what he'd earned through the actual counterfeiting 414 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: and from his truly audacious reward of two hundred pounds, 415 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: enough to get all the materials and equipment he'd need 416 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 1: to set himself up again as a master coin counterfeiter. 417 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: In the spring of Challender got Thomas Holloway to find 418 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: a house outside London, in the country convenient for coining. 419 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,399 Speaker 1: He said, a place where a lot of noise, a 420 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: lot of people coming and going, a lot of heat 421 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: would go unnoticed. Coining, especially on the scale that Challenger 422 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: wanted to do, took a lot of energy, a lot 423 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: of doing. Holloway found a perfect place, a respectable cottage 424 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: in Egham, Surrey. Egham was a coaching stop town near 425 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: the banks of the River Thames. It was about twenty 426 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: miles southwest of the Tower of London and the Mint 427 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: and it was far enough away from the city to 428 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: be out of the warden's site, but close enough to 429 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: get the goods back in when the time was right. 430 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: Chaloner's business model was a little different this time. He 431 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: wanted to instruct Thomas Holloway and his brother John on 432 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: the particulars they had split the majority of the profits 433 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 1: between the three of them. Challoner figured if he could 434 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: teach them how to do it. He could eventually afford 435 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: to be more hands off. He'd be a kind of fixer, 436 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: taking a cut off the top without exposing himself to 437 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: the danger of real prosecution for actually making the coins. 438 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: At the Eggam House, Challenger refined his process. First, he 439 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: decided to make only shillings. Smaller coins meant smaller molds 440 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: that might be hidden anywhere, he said. Then he realized 441 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: good fakes relied on the quality of the molds that 442 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: stamped the image onto both sides of the coin. Less 443 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: attentive counterfeiters used molds that opened like clamshells to allow 444 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,719 Speaker 1: the molten metal to be poured in and then closed 445 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: around in it are These often left marks on the 446 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: surfaces of the coin because the metal couldn't be sufficiently pressed. 447 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: So Chaloner had made molds that allowed him to essentially 448 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: inject hot metal into the mold through a channel, more 449 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: efficiently filling the space. Challenger was a clever man, too 450 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: bad about the whole life crime thing. He then enlisted 451 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: a new member of his gang, John Pierce, to file 452 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: and polish the molds. The coins that these molds produced 453 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: were almost indistinguishable from the real thing. Now all Chaloner 454 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: needed was to tap into his network of utterers to 455 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: get the coins sold on the street and they'd be set. 456 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: But that's not quite how it went down. On May seven, 457 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: John Pierce was arrested. The charges weren't even related to 458 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: coining or counterfeiting, or at least not this coining scam, 459 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: but Piers got spoo. Facing Newgate, Pierce told the magistrate 460 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: everything he knew in the hopes that informing would keep 461 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: him out of jail. I saw in William Challoner's brother 462 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: in law's house cutters and tools, instruments proper for coining, 463 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: with which I saw Charlon As brother in law, Jack 464 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: Gravina actually counterfeit a mill chilling at his house about 465 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: five or six weeks ago. Pierce said that one of 466 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: Challenger's London gang, a Joyce Hanbury, had asked Pierce to 467 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: make an edging tool like the ones used at the mint, 468 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: and that Challenger himself promised him a great deal of 469 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: money if he got involved. Challenger, he implied, wasn't someone 470 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: to mess with. Pierce said that Challenger had threatened to 471 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: turn the law and Gravener his own family if Gravener 472 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: didn't deliver the tools they needed for the Eggam operation. 473 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: In two weeks. Pierce added, I have heard this charleon 474 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: often say, and particularly within these three weeks, that he 475 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: had fund the lords of the Treasury and the King 476 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: out of one thousand pounds, and that he would not 477 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 1: leave the Parliament alone till he had fund them likewise, 478 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: at which I understood to be deceiving them. This was 479 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: incredible news. A witness ready to squeal on Challenger. This 480 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: would be gold to Newton. But remember there's no sort 481 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: of organized system keeping track of suspects and criminals. No 482 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: one actually shared this information with Newton until August, well 483 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: after Pierce had been released. In fact, Newton only heard 484 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: about Pierce's testimony by complete chance. He happened to be 485 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 1: in the Secretary of States offices when someone mentioned that 486 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: this Pierce guy had information on William Chaloner. Newton had 487 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: Piers picked up and brought straight to his offices in 488 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: the Tower Mint in the hopes of shaking more concrete, 489 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: actually damning information out of him. Because well, what Pierce 490 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: had is good, it wasn't enough for Newton to move 491 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: against Challenger. Newton needed Pierce to get more, so he 492 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: sent him back out on the street. Then another stroke 493 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: of luck, Thomas Holloway, Challenger's closest mate, was arrested. This 494 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: is a bit like al Capones arrest for tax evasion. 495 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: Holloway got done for an unpaid debt. Newton saw his chance. 496 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: He sent Pierce to Holloway, still in debtor's prison, with 497 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: a mission tell him anything that will get you into 498 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: Challenger's operation at Egham. Halloway fell for it. Halloway sent 499 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: Pierce down to Eggham with his blessings, and Pierce was 500 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: brought even further into Challenger's inner circle. In Egham, Pierce 501 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: counterfeited twenty shillings or so to prove his worth to 502 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: the gang, and then he went back to Newton to 503 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: tell all. And that was enough. Newton had Holloway, still 504 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: in jail and unpaid debt, charged with counterfeiting, and suddenly 505 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 1: he had two witnesses who had good reason to add 506 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,479 Speaker 1: out William Challenger. Newton still hadn't found or connected Challenger 507 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,919 Speaker 1: with the missing dies, but it didn't matter. He had witnesses. 508 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: For weeks, Holloway refused to talk. Pierce was kept on 509 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: ice and jail, where he was, of course miserable, he 510 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: wrote to a friend, I'm afraid it will go very 511 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: hard with me. This place is very dismal to me. 512 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: He was terrified too. He knew that others and Challengers gang, 513 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: including John Holloway, we're going to give evidence against him. 514 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: I hope you will go to the warden and entreat 515 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: him for to consider of my misfortunes at this time, 516 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 1: and I hope if I can get out once more, 517 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: I shall be more serviceable to the government. Newton was 518 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,720 Speaker 1: now pulling together the threads out of the Missing Dies 519 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: debacle and Challengers claims that the mint itself was corrupt rotten. 520 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,720 Speaker 1: He had learned how to get information, how to play 521 00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: members of the same gang off each other. Chowder, meanwhile, 522 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,879 Speaker 1: was unaware of just what was stacked against him. After all, 523 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,319 Speaker 1: no one's getting smartphones airlifted by drone into Newgate Jail 524 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,399 Speaker 1: in s, so it's not like Holloway or peers could 525 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: get word to him what was up. Whatever he had heard, 526 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:21,360 Speaker 1: he wasn't worried. Momentarily pausing his coining operation, Challenger decided 527 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: to work on yet another scheme. Hubrists thy name be Challenger, 528 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,759 Speaker 1: remembering the successful scam with the Jacobite printers. He and 529 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,720 Speaker 1: a man named Aubrey Price came up with a plot 530 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 1: to present some trumped up evidence to the Lord's Justice 531 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 1: of a Jacobite conspiracy to mount an attack on Dover Castle. 532 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: Then the plan went, they'd offer themselves as undercover agents 533 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,800 Speaker 1: to infiltrate the conspirators for a steep reward, of course, 534 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 1: respecting the danger they were putting themselves in. Whatever the 535 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: merits of that particular plan, Chalder and Price made the 536 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 1: mistake of waltzing into the halls of the Lord's Justice 537 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:10,760 Speaker 1: at the wrong time, the very wrongest time, actually, because 538 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: right at that moment, Isaac Newton was also at the 539 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: Lord's Justice giving evidence in the case of another counterfeiter, 540 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 1: and he just spent several weeks getting information out of 541 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,240 Speaker 1: peers and others about what Chalder was up to during 542 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 1: his summer vacation. Newton finished his testimony, left the room. 543 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,880 Speaker 1: He passed a man in the hall, a very familiar man, 544 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: a man who he knew to be running a counterfeiting 545 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: operation down in Surrey, a man he spent the last 546 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:45,359 Speaker 1: month building a case against a rest mug And on 547 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 1: September four, Challenger found himself in Newgate jail once again, 548 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: Only this time there were no earls, no highly placed 549 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: government officials, no Bay governors willing to spring him. Isaac 550 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:14,440 Speaker 1: Newton finally had his man, or did he? Coming up 551 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: on Newton's Law classic sort of mafia what we now 552 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: think of as mafia, organized crime, techniques of systematically dismantling 553 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,320 Speaker 1: the case that's about to be presented against you until 554 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: there was nothing left. Newton's Law is a production of 555 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. It's written and hosted by Me Linda 556 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:40,280 Speaker 1: Rodriguez McRobie. Our senior producer is Ryan Murdoch. Our producer 557 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: is Emily Marina. Our executive producer is Jason English. Original 558 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: music by Alice McCoy with editing help from Mary Do. 559 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,839 Speaker 1: Sound design and mixing by Jeremy Thal, Research and fact 560 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: checking by Me and Jocelyn Sears. Voice acting by Keith Fleming, 561 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: Robbie Jack and Ruthie Stevens. Special thanks to Harry Potter, 562 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: Chris Barker and Tom Levinson. Special thanks to Mangesh Hatikudur 563 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: and Beneflex Sound Studios. Our show logo is designed by 564 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: Lucy Condonia. Thanks for listening. Stole Pass